[elinks-users] elinks charsets
I'm running elinks 0.11.1 on a UTF-8 enabled xterm (uxterm) and I cannot see any charset option (Setup - Character Set) that remotely looks like UTF-8. The only thing I have seen that would indicate some form of unicode support in elinks is an option that I found under Setup - Terminal Options - UTF-8 I/O. I checked this option and the only difference was that after setting this option I am able to get the double-line box-drawing characters (double lines if I also check linux or OS/2 frames under the same Terminal Options so I am unsure what this option actually does. What I noticed is that whether this option is set or not does not seem to affect the rendering of languages with a different charset: sites in some West European languages such as German or Spanish or French sometimes are rendered correctly regardless of the setting of this option (main pages of their respective Yahoo! pages for instance..) and sometimes not so correctly - for some strange reason the accented vowels are rendered correctly on http://es.yahoo.com but are replaced by asterisks on http://es.sports.yahoo.com. I also saw some pages in French where some characters are replaced by small squares and the 'c' with a cedilla is rendered by a 'c' followed by a comma. On the other hand some languages such as Portuguese are never rendered correctly: see the home page of Yahoo! Brazil for instance. So I was wondering if there are settings that I could enter in the elinks.conf (or other..) configuration file, if something is broken in my elinks setup, or if internationalization is still a work in progress with elinks and whether unicode settings are planned in future releases. Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
[elinks-users] Re: elinks charsets
Thus spake cga2000 on Sat, May 06, 2006 at 02:50:12AM -0400 or thereabouts: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-05-06 02:50]: I'm running elinks 0.11.1 on a UTF-8 enabled xterm (uxterm) and I cannot see any charset option (Setup - Character Set) that remotely looks like UTF-8. The only thing I have seen that would indicate some form of unicode support in elinks is an option that I found under Setup - Terminal Options - UTF-8 I/O. I checked this option and the only difference was that after setting this option I am able to get the double-line box-drawing characters (double lines if I also check linux or OS/2 frames under the same Terminal Options so I am unsure what this option actually does. What I noticed is that whether this option is set or not does not seem to affect the rendering of languages with a different charset: sites in some West European languages such as German or Spanish or French sometimes are rendered correctly regardless of the setting of this option (main pages of their respective Yahoo! pages for instance..) and sometimes not so correctly - for some strange reason the accented vowels are rendered correctly on http://es.yahoo.com but are replaced by asterisks on http://es.sports.yahoo.com. I also saw some pages in French where some characters are replaced by small squares and the 'c' with a cedilla is rendered by a 'c' followed by a comma. On the other hand some languages such as Portuguese are never rendered correctly: see the home page of Yahoo! Brazil for instance. So I was wondering if there are settings that I could enter in the elinks.conf (or other..) configuration file, if something is broken in my elinks setup, or if internationalization is still a work in progress with elinks and whether unicode settings are planned in future releases. Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] re-binding go forward and go back keys via the Keybinding Manager
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 05:23:22AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Wed, May 17, 2006: On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 10:08:14AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Wed, May 17, 2006: Salve cga2000! - possibly a misunderstanding on my part regarding the functionality that this function provides: I assume they correspond to the back/forward buttons on other browsers Yes, they correspond to back/forward buttons in graphical browsers. Basically, the view state (what link you were on etc.) will be restored when moving back and forth in this manner. Thanks a ton. I have remapped them to h and l .. a lot more convenient for me than the arrow/cursor keys which are very difficult to reach on this laptop. In order to do that, I had to remap l - jump to link to u but I'm not sure what that does - sorry, I'm clueless about web stuff. I tried it in different contexts and it does nothing. What's the difference between jump to link and follow link? Jump to a link sounds clear enough but from where? When I first saw it I thought it just meant go to link target when a link is highlighted but that's apparently not the case. It takes an (undocumented) prefix number. So entering the sequence 5l sets the prefix to 5 (will be shown in the status bar) and then jumps to link number five. I must be configured differently: when I enter 5 elinks opens a Go to link dialog box with 5 already typed in and if I type u - the jump to link keybinding in my modified configuration and hit enter I get a second pop up with an error message: Bad number - Number expected in field. So I'm still missing something. :-/ I expected jump to link to open the dialog box where I can enter the link number but this is apparently not what it does. I'm stumped. -- Jonas Fonseca ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] re-binding go forward and go back keys via the Keybinding Manager
On Thu, May 18, 2006 at 05:23:22AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Wed, May 17, 2006: On Wed, May 17, 2006 at 10:08:14AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: Robert Michel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Wed, May 17, 2006: Salve cga2000! - possibly a misunderstanding on my part regarding the functionality that this function provides: I assume they correspond to the back/forward buttons on other browsers Yes, they correspond to back/forward buttons in graphical browsers. Basically, the view state (what link you were on etc.) will be restored when moving back and forth in this manner. Thanks a ton. I have remapped them to h and l .. a lot more convenient for me than the arrow/cursor keys which are very difficult to reach on this laptop. In order to do that, I had to remap l - jump to link to u but I'm not sure what that does - sorry, I'm clueless about web stuff. I tried it in different contexts and it does nothing. What's the difference between jump to link and follow link? Jump to a link sounds clear enough but from where? When I first saw it I thought it just meant go to link target when a link is highlighted but that's apparently not the case. It takes an (undocumented) prefix number. So entering the sequence 5l sets the prefix to 5 (will be shown in the status bar) and then jumps to link number five. OK. I had link numbering on - by default, toggled via the . keyboard action - so I thought that might clash with the jump to link action and I hit . to turn link numbering off and hit u again and this time it does pretty much what you represented. When I hit 5 I got the keyboard prefix: 5 in the taskbar.. could type 1 and the prefix becomes 51 .. but now I'm confused. Since I had to turn off link numbering I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with this. Not count the links on the web page mentally, I hope? No big deal, just typing the link number when in link numbering on mode works just fine - and I'm absolutely delighted by my vi-like navigation keyboard actions instead of these laptop-imcompatible arrow keys - so if you don't have the time to clarify please ignore. Thanks for your reply.. and please move graphic support to the bottom of your list and give us UTF-8 and javascript support.. :-) Great browser..! cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
[elinks-users] color schemes
I run elinks on a 256-capable xterm. I have found that you can toggle three color schemes via the % keyboard action - this is apparently meant to improve readability for certain web pages/sites. The default color scheme in my setup has a light background and appears to do its best to render pages as closely as possible to what the page specifies. If I press % I have access to two more color schemes with a dark background. The main difference between these two appears to be that one uses only the 8/16 basic colors while the other uses the extended color capabilities of the underlying xterm (?) Are these aspects documented? In mozilla for instance I have access to a palette of ~70 colors that I can use to colorize the different text components on a web page - such as make unvisited links some shade of blue.. visited links some shade of red etc. Elinks appears to have a different philosophy. Apart from the % that lets you switch between three pre-established color schemes I didn't find anything in the menus that would let you change colors on the fly - when text is not very legible for instance, such as a light grey on a white background for instance.. I am aware of the color.html test page that comes with the package but that only confirmed my suspicion that I might not be using all the capabilities of Elinks's enhanced color mode. Apologies for the vagueness of my questions.. Any pointers welcome. Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] color schemes
On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 12:42:14PM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Sat, Jun 03, 2006: On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 07:49:27AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Fri, Jun 02, 2006: [..] .. and you can actually set hex #rrggbb colors..! I wonder how elinks determines the closest xterm-256 match. It uses a pretty standard rgb distance calculator, with some simplification. See src/terminal/color.c ... ;) great. I had to compile elinks from source since the version that came with debian did not support 256 colors so I must still have it. I'm somewhat sceptical about rgb distance calculators, though. There must be times when - with three dimensions.. there are two different choices.. or more.. and with human perception being what it is I am not convinced that even when there is just one mathematically correct choice it would be the natural choice that your average human would pick.. I changed the visited links default - was yellow in my setup.. very visible on a dark background but practically invisible on a light one. Yes, 256 color mode lacks the 'ensure contrast' option that 16 color mode has. Sometimes elinks actually seems to hesitate .. briefly flashing a black background (I am on an xterm with -bg black) and eventually comes up with the document colors.. usually dark text a light background.. and sometimes it does not. It could be the incremental rendering. Some CSS document might first be completely loaded after the first rendering has occured. that's my biggest problem with elinks.. I am so ignorant of web technologies.. stuff like that goes way above my head.. :-( Interestingly some sites are rendered with islands of dark-colored text on a light background and the rest of the page is black. In my case, the European Yahoo! sites are rendered correctly while the American ones - US, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina.. have are not. A quick look reveals that http://www.yahoo.com/ has: body topmargin=7 marginheight=7 link=#003399 vlink=#800080 while http://uk.yahoo.com/ has: body topmargin=7 marginheight=7 link=#003399 vlink=#800080 bgcolor=#ff You can use scripting to insert the bgcolor attribute if you care. I can't spend as much time tinkering with elinks now as I would have liked so I'll probably live with it. But why does the absence of the bgcolor attribute have different effects in elinks and graphical browsers such as mozilla? No big deal anyway. Looking forward to being able to spend more time tinkering with the program's customization and seriously reading the doc. Yes, the many config options is one of ELinks' biggest asset (and weakness ;-). I really don't see it as a weakness at all. It's just that elinks - a bit like mutt - is really meant for people who know what they are doing. If like myself you know next to nothing about web stuff you should have the intelligence to accept it and live with some minor annoyances until you have the time to investigate further. As far as user satisfaction goes I would have given mozilla six out of ten.. At this point in time, I would give elinks 7.5.. and apart from changing a few keyboard actions I haven't really done anything to customize it. But it's nice to know that just about anything I may need to customize *is* customizable. Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] color schemes
On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 10:08:37AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Sun, Jun 04, 2006: On Sun, Jun 04, 2006 at 12:42:14PM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Sat, Jun 03, 2006: I'm somewhat sceptical about rgb distance calculators, though. There must be times when - with three dimensions.. there are two different choices.. or more.. and with human perception being what it is I am not convinced that even when there is just one mathematically correct choice it would be the natural choice that your average human would pick.. Well, zas and me discussed creating a more complex system for configuring the color model (see doc/color-model.txt) but it never got further than the above document and frankly I am not sure if it is worth it. I think the color picker does an OK job, but maybe my color blindness is just playing tricks with me. In the context of elinks, probably not. I have a feeling this has more its place at a lower level - the desktop, maybe? I'm not really convinced 256 colors was such a good idea to begin with. Naturally, it's orders of magnitude better than the 8/8 or even 8/16 on regular terms.. But why not go the whole hog and have a terminal that supports what the video card is capable of? 16-bit - 64k colors would probably have been a sensible choice and made life easier for everybody? Only one extra byte per cell.. I can't spend as much time tinkering with elinks now as I would have liked so I'll probably live with it. Ok, but if you feel like modding up your ELinks you should really try the Spidermonkey Javascript scripting backend created by Miciah. It's fairly easy to get working on a debian system Really? I was never able to get xterm, gnu/scren, and elinks.. to build from source - the debian way, I mean.. I was in a rush and it seemed I had to become a debian packaging expert before I could hope to get that to work.. So now I have a bunch of stuff that's all /.configure'd and compiled from source. Annoying. This said, I'm very curious of the Javascript capabilities and I would really like to see the difference it makes. I do run into pages where I am stuck and I have to fire up mozilla and I suspect that not having Javascript enabled is part of my problem. and it is currently one of the most developed scripting backends for ELinks. Examples are in contrib/smjs/. But why does the absence of the bgcolor attribute have different effects in elinks and graphical browsers such as mozilla? Because the default background color in mozilla is white, where as you said you have configured your default background color to be black or something. Yes, the many config options is one of ELinks' biggest asset (and weakness ;-). I really don't see it as a weakness at all. It's just that elinks - a bit like mutt - is really meant for people who know what they are doing. If like myself you know next to nothing about web stuff you should have the intelligence to accept it and live with some minor annoyances until you have the time to investigate further. Having a sane default configuration is very important. The many options is a weakness if you end up scaring new users away. If they feel they have to know of all the little details. That's pretty much what I meant. But as a new user I only noticed all the options when I took a look at the elinks.conf file. But then I was in so much of a rush that I did not really look at the o - Option Manager until recently.. Actually what I missed - again as a new user - was more samples of elinks in action.. I did find a few screenshots but I would have liked to see more. Now, the reason I say this is that for a new user and for something such as elinks that has the potential to display such a wide variety of documents.. I was never sure I was configured correctly and seeing what you or the other seasoned users of elinks are seeing. This nagging feeling that I may not be making the most of the product. For instance, until you told me this thing about setting my foreground and background to black I was seeing lots of pages revert to my xterm's black background. Now practically everything is rendered with a white/light background.. I don't know if this makes sense.. But my point is that being the only elinks user in my neighborhood .. as far as I know .. it was not likely one of the seasoned users I mentioned would have stopped by.. and said.. wait a minute.. this isn't right.. looked at my setup and fixed a couple of things. And conversely I could not walk up to someone's desk looked over his shoulder for a couple minutes and said.. wait a minute.. his elinks looks a lot better than mine.. iow, I was totally in the dark as to how an optimal setup of elinks should behave in real-life situations. May still be, for that matter.. I don't know if it's realistic/possible but it might be a good idea to have elinks test pages .. you go
Re: [elinks-users] color schemes
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 05:33:05AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Mon, Jun 05, 2006: On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 10:08:37AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: I'm not really convinced 256 colors was such a good idea to begin with. Naturally, it's orders of magnitude better than the 8/8 or even 8/16 on regular terms.. But why not go the whole hog and have a terminal that supports what the video card is capable of? 16-bit - 64k colors would probably have been a sensible choice and made life easier for everybody? Only one extra byte per cell.. Someone posted a patch for something like this, using the X libraries. It never was polished to a degree where it was worth merging, tho'. Interesting. Obviously 64k or 16M different colors doesn't make much difference. None that I can see anyway. I asked the xterm maintainer how the 256-color palette was chosen but he did not give me much detail. My personal concern was that the default xterm palette has very few blues. So if you try to harmonize the contents of an xterm with for instance the default background of Window Maker (I call it WindowMaker blue) you don't find an xterm color that is anywhere near. That's when I started taking an interest in these aspects. Ok, but if you feel like modding up your ELinks you should really try the Spidermonkey Javascript scripting backend created by Miciah. It's fairly easy to get working on a debian system Really? I was never able to get xterm, gnu/scren, and elinks.. to build from source - the debian way, I mean.. I was in a rush and it seemed I had to become a debian packaging expert before I could hope to get that to work.. So now I have a bunch of stuff that's all /.configure'd and compiled from source. Annoying. I can imagine. Only ever felt the need to compile school related stuff, elinks, git, (cogito), and xterm. The last one to get 256 colors, and I am still using the one I compiled on my previous debian system. This said, I'm very curious of the Javascript capabilities and I would really like to see the difference it makes. I do run into pages where I am stuck and I have to fire up mozilla and I suspect that not having Javascript enabled is part of my problem. Sorry, that I was not clear. I am talking about using JavaScript for browser scripting, not document scripting. Ok. I need to add JavaScript to the list of things I must look into. I'll check and see if there is an online tutorial available somewhere. That is, using JavaScript to define hooks that can handle stuff from the goto URL dialog or preformat the HTML source. Yes, but I do need it for page rendering as well..? Especially those home pages that have some sort of horizontal menu bar that ends up a vertical list of links in my setup? Having a sane default configuration is very important. The many options is a weakness if you end up scaring new users away. If they feel they have to know of all the little details. That's pretty much what I meant. But as a new user I only noticed all the options when I took a look at the elinks.conf file. But then I was in so much of a rush that I did not really look at the o - Option Manager until recently.. As a new user you hopefully will get a long way by only using the terminal option dialog (under Setup in the main menu). Once your screen/terminal is configured most things should just work. I'm pretty confident now that I my terminal setup is sound. The only improvement I can think of is running an xterm with a white background. Now the thing is I currently run everything under gnu/screen. I have to figure out if I could change the background to a light color without restarting the underlying xterm. And then see if I could automate this ie. change the background to white when I switch to elinks and then back to black when I switch back to vim or mutt. Actually what I missed - again as a new user - was more samples of elinks in action.. I did find a few screenshots but I would have liked to see more. I have some (mostly 256 related) at http://jonas.nitro.dk/screenshots/ I had looked at these a few weeks back. I took another look while writing this and now I see things I didn't see back then. I compared those sites that are still around such as OSTG, OSDN, slashdot.. and it's obvious I'm not quite there yet.. Now, the reason I say this is that for a new user and for something such as elinks that has the potential to display such a wide variety of documents.. I was never sure I was configured correctly and seeing what you or the other seasoned users of elinks are seeing. This nagging feeling that I may not be making the most of the product. For instance, until you told me this thing about setting my foreground and background to black I was seeing lots of pages revert to my xterm's black background. Now practically everything is rendered with a white/light
Re: [elinks-users] color schemes
On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 01:28:20AM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: If I may butt in... On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 08:33:48PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 05:33:05AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Mon, Jun 05, 2006: On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 10:08:37AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: I'm not really convinced 256 colors was such a good idea to begin with. Naturally, it's orders of magnitude better than the 8/8 or even 8/16 on regular terms.. But why not go the whole hog and have a terminal that supports what the video card is capable of? 16-bit - 64k colors would probably have been a sensible choice and made life easier for everybody? Only one extra byte per cell.. The onus is on the developers of the terminal emulators. I'm still waiting for 256-colour support on the Linux console. I agree 100%. Terminal emulators are emulating what the hardware had to offer over 25 years ago - instead of building in software the terminals of today. And I'm being nice.. These so-called emulators appear to mostly emulate earlier models. I believe that the VT420 - I'm not a specialist and I really don't have the time to check right now.. so correct me if I'm wrong - had split-screen mode capability. Someone posted a patch for something like this, using the X libraries. It never was polished to a degree where it was worth merging, tho'. Which patch was that? Interesting. Obviously 64k or 16M different colors doesn't make much difference. None that I can see anyway. I asked the xterm maintainer how the 256-color palette was chosen but he did not give me much detail. My personal concern was that the default xterm palette has very few blues. So if you try to harmonize the contents of an xterm with for instance the default background of Window Maker (I call it WindowMaker blue) you don't find an xterm color that is anywhere near. That's when I started taking an interest in these aspects. You can use X resources to change XTerm's palette. man xterm or look in /etc/X11/app-defaults/XTerm-color (at least on Debian systems). That I am familiar with. I have a couple of color scheme files that I can xrdb -merge to emulate the kde konsole schemes in an xterm. You can also probably do the same thing on-the-fly by echoing escape sequences to the xterm. I have tested it manually for the extended colors (16-231) and presumably the greys (232-255) but not for the basic colors. Mind you, ELinks will not necessarily know that you've changed the colours, so if you weird things (change red to blue), it might reflect strangely in ELinks's rendering. .. add to it that I have yet another intervening layer (gnu/screen) to battle with.. Probably would not affect the output - the colors - but it does matter where escape sequences are concerned. Ok, but if you feel like modding up your ELinks you should really try the Spidermonkey Javascript scripting backend created by Miciah. It's fairly easy to get working on a debian system Really? I was never able to get xterm, gnu/scren, and elinks.. to build from source - the debian way, I mean.. I was in a rush and it seemed I had to become a debian packaging expert before I could hope to get that to work.. So now I have a bunch of stuff that's all /.configure'd and compiled from source. Annoying. I don't bother packaging ELinks; I just install to my home directory. You can install to /usr/local, or maybe try something like checkinstall (which is packaged in Debian). I can imagine. Only ever felt the need to compile school related stuff, elinks, git, (cogito), and xterm. The last one to get 256 colors, and I am still using the one I compiled on my previous debian system. This said, I'm very curious of the Javascript capabilities and I would really like to see the difference it makes. I do run into pages where I am stuck and I have to fire up mozilla and I suspect that not having Javascript enabled is part of my problem. Sorry, that I was not clear. I am talking about using JavaScript for browser scripting, not document scripting. Ok. I need to add JavaScript to the list of things I must look into. I'll check and see if there is an online tutorial available somewhere. My preferred tutorial is to read code. My preferred reference is http://www.devguru.com/Technologies/ecmascript/quickref/javascript_intro.html --note that that is oriented towards Web programming, tho. I should probably write some documentation for the browser scripting interfaces. I meant introduction.. just to quickly gain a general understanding of JS. That is, using JavaScript to define hooks that can handle stuff from the goto URL dialog or preformat the HTML source. Yes, but I do need it for page rendering as well..? Especially those home pages that have some sort of horizontal
Re: [elinks-users] color schemes
On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 08:59:24AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Tue, Jun 06, 2006: On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 05:33:05AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: Someone posted a patch for something like this, using the X libraries. It never was polished to a degree where it was worth merging, tho'. Interesting. Obviously 64k or 16M different colors doesn't make much difference. None that I can see anyway. I asked the xterm maintainer how the 256-color palette was chosen but he did not give me much detail. My personal concern was that the default xterm palette has very few blues. So if you try to harmonize the contents of an xterm with for instance the default background of Window Maker (I call it WindowMaker blue) you don't find an xterm color that is anywhere near. That's when I started taking an interest in these aspects. I know next to nothing about how good it works. It has been there since I joined the project. BTW, I have a little script that prints out all the nice colors: http://jonas.nitro.dk/tmp/256.sh ... works very nicely. I'll add the color numbers to the display for my own use. Sorry, that I was not clear. I am talking about using JavaScript for browser scripting, not document scripting. Ok. I need to add JavaScript to the list of things I must look into. I'll check and see if there is an online tutorial available somewhere. I see, that Miciah might be putting some API docs of SMJS browser scripting together. Else .js files in contrib/smjs/ should be a help. JavaScript is a fairly simple language where many things works as expected. That is, using JavaScript to define hooks that can handle stuff from the goto URL dialog or preformat the HTML source. Yes, but I do need it for page rendering as well..? Especially those home pages that have some sort of horizontal menu bar that ends up a vertical list of links in my setup? That is usually controlled by CSS (another area where ELinks is falling behind). CSS let's you define that the tag p which is otherwise a block element (that should start on a new separate line, or paragraph if you will) is instead an inline element, where multiple p tags should appear on one line. Bad description, but I hope you get the point. clear enough. I have some (mostly 256 related) at http://jonas.nitro.dk/screenshots/ I had looked at these a few weeks back. I took another look while writing this and now I see things I didn't see back then. I compared those sites that are still around such as OSTG, OSDN, slashdot.. and it's obvious I'm not quite there yet.. Well, with slashdot's new design (they went away from table-based design to CSS-powered design) it looks broken in my ELinks too. :( So many difference might be because of changes to the website and ELinks lack of CSS support. Not that it makes it easier for you. cf. my reply to Miciah.. :-( Screenshots sells, I agree. Although most apps are easily downloaded, configured and installed, the first appearance by which you make the decision whether to even bother with all that may often be a screenshot. And properly more so for something as seemingly out-dated as a text-mode browser. What would be nice is to have the web pages and the screenshots. Because even if the site still exists six months from now the contents.. or even the page design.. are going to be different. Thus if the new user has the html document and the .png .. when he wants to make sure his configuration is optimal he just needs to point elinks to the web document and compare with the screenshot. He might need to change his font to the one that was used when the the screenshot was taken but otherwise it should be pretty painless? Yes, this would guard against deceptive screenshots like the /. screenshot above. I don't know if it's realistic/possible but it might be a good idea to have elinks test pages .. you go to the test page and if you're set up right you should see this.. and a link to a screenshot. It's certainly a new approach to a more visual tutorial and might suit ELinks better than the poor introduction we have now. On the other hand I wonder if most users of text-mode browser is this visually oriented. But then again, Links2 has this calibration page to help you get the basics working and that is of course a great help. thanks, calibration is pretty much what I had in mind. And it should remain pretty simple. Just giving the new user the ability to verify that web pages are rendering correctly. As to a tutorial I don't really see the need for one. As long as a default configuration is provided the user can learn the basics of elinks by just using it. Same as any gui app. Call it tips and tricks or cheat sheet instead of tutorial. But yes, learning while using makes the learning experience feel less steep. or otherwise
[elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
There are some spidermonkey debs in the sarge repository. Are they of any use to elinks or should I follow the recommendations in ecmascript.txt and install sm from source? If the latter, has anyone done this recently and could confirm that the ecmascript.txt guide is up-to-date? Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 06:32:41PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: [..] Please report any problems on IRC or here on the list. The install went very smoothly - both sm and elinks. I checked what was specified in the install guide: libjs.so - libjs.so Ecmascript SpiderMonkey .. looked ok to me. When I tried to start the new version in /usr/local/bin: $ elinks .. gives me a elinks: error while loading shared libraries: libjs.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory I did an ldconfig just in case.. no joy.. Then I did a $ dpkg -l *libjs* and it tells me this: pn libjs0 ... pn libjs0-dev pn libjsw-dev pn libjsw1.5 pn libjsw2 .. looks like the javascript libs are not installed..? Should I apt-get any of these packages? Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 06:49:47PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 10:32:41PM +, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 05:43:01PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: There are some spidermonkey debs in the sarge repository. Are they of any use to elinks or should I follow the recommendations in ecmascript.txt and install sm from source? Follow the instructions. [...] Sorry, that was an unclear answer. Follow the instructions that say to use apt-get. You don't need to do anything but apt-get install libsmjs-dev (libsmjs1 should automatically be pulled in with the -dev package), apt-got the two packages and dpkg confirms that both are ii - installed run ELinks's autogen.sh script hmm.. I only did a ./configure - taking all the defaults. can I just start over with the same source tree or just delete it and go back to the tar xzvf step for a fresh start? (if you downloaded ELinks using GIT), I probably downloaded it from the download page on the elinks web site. The downloaded file is: elinks-0.11.1.tar.bz2 What is GIT..?? do I need the GIT version rather than the standard one? run ELinks's configure script, and make. apart from the skipped autogen step that's exactly what I did. Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 07:18:52PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 07:01:14PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 06:32:41PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: [..] Try `dpkg -l lib*js*`. the entire output is: ii libijs-0.35 0.35-1 pn libijs-devnone pn libjs0none pn libjs0-devnone pn libjsw-devnone pn libjsw1.5 none pn libjsw2 none pn libkjsembed-dev none pn libkjsembed1 none pn libroxen-jsredirect none ii libsmjs-dev 1.5rc6a-1 ii libsmjs1 1.5rc6a-1 pn libtk-objscanner-perl none un libwfnetobjs-dev none pn libwfnetobjs0 none pn libwfnetobjs0-dev none libjs0 is an entirely different ECMAScript engine, one which ELinks does not support, while libjsw is some library for joysticks. The packages that you need are libsmjs1 and libsmjs-dev (for the current stable) or libmozjs0d and libmozjs-dev (for testing or unstable). What release of Debian are you using? stable (sarge) It looks like the instructions need to be more explicit: if you can apt-get install libsmjs-dev, none of the other instructions need be followed. Should I apt-get any of these packages? Did you run `apt-get install libsmjs-dev`? absolutely. I didn't feel like taking any chances so I just copied/pasted the commands in ecmascript.txt Can you provide the output of `ldd elinks`? This will tell which libraries ELinks was built to use. libX11.so.6 = /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x4002a000) libjs.so = not found libdl.so.2 = /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x400f1000) libz.so.1 = /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0x400f5000) libexpat.so.1 = /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 (0x40107000) libc.so.6 = /lib/libc.so.6 (0x40127000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 = /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x4000) confirms it's missing that libjs.. Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 07:18:52PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: ok.. what you said about the debian packages providing different support finally connected. I read the ldconfig manual.. took a quick look at /etc/ldconfig.so.conf and sure enough.. there was no /usr/local/lib.. So I added it.. ldconfig'd.. and elinks came up ok. Makes sense that by default debian stable only uses the trusted lib locations. Sorry I was unable to figure this out more promptly. Now what can I do to verify that ecma support actually works? Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 09:17:05PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 08:56:59PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 07:18:52PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: ok.. what you said about the debian packages providing different support finally connected. I read the ldconfig manual.. took a quick look at /etc/ldconfig.so.conf and sure enough.. there was no /usr/local/lib.. There shouldn't be, unless you are using libraries that didn't come with Debian. Is it possible that you have an old copy of SpiderMonkey that you built yourself and put in /usr/local? no. Looks like what happened is that standard .debs never install libs under /usr/local. As a result, since ldconfig - at least the version that comes with debian does not look at /usr/local/lib unless directed to do so by and entry in /etc/ldconfig.so.conf. I didn't mention earlier that before I added /usr/local/lib to my configuration, I checked the timestamp on /usr/local/lib/libjs.so. As far as I can tell, everything would appear to be in order. So I added it.. ldconfig'd.. and elinks came up ok. Makes sense that by default debian stable only uses the trusted lib locations. Sorry I was unable to figure this out more promptly. Now what can I do to verify that ecma support actually works? Check the Help - About dialogue. It should list 'ECMAScript (SpiderMonkey)'. .. hmm.. rather perplexing.. I had done a: $ elinks -version and that told me that ecmascript was enabled: ELinks 0.11.1 (built on Jul 3 2006 18:51:37) Features: Standard, IPv6, gzip, Periodic Saving, Timer, Cascading Style Sheets, Protocol (File, FTP, HTTP, URI rewrite, User protocols), MIME (Option system, Mailcap, Mimetypes files), LED indicators, Bookmarks, Cookies, ECMAScript, Form History, Global History, Scripting (ECMAScript scripting engine), Goto URL History, Search History .. or so I thought. the About dialog, otoh, does not mention anything. There are some test pages under test/ecmascript in the ELinks source tree. Note that while the SpiderMonkey library provides a complete language implementation, the interface by which scripts can manipulate the document (DOM) is not supported by ELinks, which severely hinders most document scripts. So, I tried the test pages and some actions give me a popup that says that JavaScript is not enabled. I loaded the same test pages in mozilla but since I don't know anything about js I'm not sure what's supposed to happen in elinks. Not sure what's happening. Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Mon, Jul 03, 2006 at 09:17:05PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: [..] Now what can I do to verify that ecma support actually works? Check the Help - About dialogue. It should list 'ECMAScript (SpiderMonkey)'. There are some test pages under test/ecmascript in the ELinks source tree. Note that while the SpiderMonkey library provides a complete language implementation, the interface by which scripts can manipulate the document (DOM) is not supported by ELinks, which severely hinders most document scripts. could kick myself for wasting your time over this. I had left a gnu/screen session running on a linux console and this regrettably included an autostarted instance of my previous version of elinks. I had read somewhere about there being a master instance of elinks so-to-speak.. and that other instances just connect to this master instance. Obviously, I do not have any understanding of the implications beyond whatever you do.. don't leave an instance of elinks running when making changes.. never mind recompiling.. So I guess that's what caused all the fuss. In any event I now have the Sripting feature in the About dialogue and I'm not getting any more of these JavaScript is not enabled messages. Pity I can't remember any of the (few) instances where I ran into a problem when js was not enabled.. Thanks much for all the help and all apologies for the confusion. cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
[elinks-users] New elinks user - three months of happiness..!!
While messing up this ECMAscript install I couldn't help notice that it's about three months now since I first installed a 256-color-enabled elinks and switched over from mozilla for just about all my web-surfing activities. The only exception being paying bills online banking. I must say that although I have done very little in the way of customization I am very satisfied with the experience. Fast rendering, sensible keyboard shortcuts, in particular, have made all the difference. I would really hate to have to go back to mozilla! The only serious problem where I am concerned is the limitations with the rendering of certain sites that have this newspaper-style multi-column presentation such as slashdot. I understand that this is due to imperfect css rendering support with the current version of elinks and I just hope this will improve at some point in the future. I also have a minor problem with sites that use a screen-wide color background to highlight headings. But this may be due to my terminal (xterm+gnu/screen) configuration. I have this problem with the gentoo main page for instance and would be curious to know if others see the same thing I am seeing. One little thing that I am missing is the absence of any indication of how far down I am into a given page. Something like a percentage indication would be especially useful for some lengthy pages such as collections of mailing list archives. I guess everybody else uses the underlying terminal's scrollbar for this (?) .. I use a fullscreen terminal with no scrollbar and sometimes - especially when searching - I'm a little lost. Anyway, thanks a lot for developing/maintaing this excellent piece of software and for all the tips and quality support. cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] New elinks user - three months of happiness..!!
On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 02:15:44AM EDT, Thomas Adam wrote: On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 01:51:44AM -0400, cga2000 wrote: I also have a minor problem with sites that use a screen-wide color background to highlight headings. But this may be due to my terminal (xterm+gnu/screen) configuration. I have this problem with the gentoo main page for instance and would be curious to know if others see the same thing I am seeing. I couldn't say -- the page looks fine to me. You could always take a screenshot. http://www.geocities.com/cga/gen.png normally the purplish-blue background of Gentoo Weekly Newsletter .. etc. should extend as far as the column at the extreme right of the screen. Here, it stops with the text .. right after the '6' of 'July 2006. Good news if you don't see this, then likely it's only a matter of my configuring my terminal correctly. One little thing that I am missing is the absence of any indication of how far down I am into a given page. Something like a percentage indication would be especially useful for some lengthy pages such as collections of mailing list archives. I guess everybody else uses the underlying terminal's scrollbar for this (?) .. I use a fullscreen terminal with no scrollbar and sometimes - especially when searching - I'm a little lost. I just tend to use the page indicator in the top-right corner of ELinks, example: Gentoo Linux -- Gentoo Linux News (1/4). I guess.. I should've asked if there was such a feature to begin with.. Thanks for the tip.. suits me to a tee.. even better than a percentage.. since I tend to think more in terms of pages anyway.. like most people, I guess. Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 01:42:29AM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: [..] No problem. The forgotten master session only explains one of the problems. I am still curious about how the configure script found SpiderMonkey, yet you had a binary that clearly was trying to link with a non-existent library. my *guess* is that elinks's configure script looks in all likely places.. and this includes the /usr/local tree. I still don't understand how /usr/local came into this--Debian packages should not store anything relevant under there. I'd like to understand these problems so that they might be avoided by other users. yes, but the libjs that elinks uses is not the standard debian lib.. I did a: $ find ../spidermonkey/js -name libjs.so -print .. and sure enough the lib is part of the sm tarball.. and the exact same size as the one in /usr/local/lib (550,952 bytes). Now, since prior to make-ing spidermonkey I set the $PREFIX to /usr/local - as specified in ecmascript.text, I would assume that this caused all binaries that come with sm to be eventually installed in the /usr/local tree.. including the libjs lib. In any case, have fun with ECMAScript! Well.. that was pretty much what I was wondering earlier.. now it's installed what good is it..? I mean in the real world.. I would imagine that it should be transparent.. Stuff that didn't work before should now work. I should have kept my prior version of elinks some place.. continued using that until I ran into a js disabled problem and switched to this version to see the difference. It's really very late over here so I just can't think of any site where I tried to access some gadget-y link and got denied with the previous version. But as far as I can tell most pages seem to use js to add some gimmicky rendering stuff that's not compatible with a text mode browser anyway.. so I'm not so sure it's really going to make much difference. Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 05:24:18AM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 04:39:53AM -0400, cga2000 wrote: On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 01:42:29AM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: [..] No problem. The forgotten master session only explains one of the problems. I am still curious about how the configure script found SpiderMonkey, yet you had a binary that clearly was trying to link with a non-existent library. my *guess* is that elinks's configure script looks in all likely places.. and this includes the /usr/local tree. I still don't understand how /usr/local came into this--Debian packages should not store anything relevant under there. I'd like to understand these problems so that they might be avoided by other users. yes, but the libjs that elinks uses is not the standard debian lib.. I did a: $ find ../spidermonkey/js -name libjs.so -print .. and sure enough the lib is part of the sm tarball.. and the exact same size as the one in /usr/local/lib (550,952 bytes). Now, since prior to make-ing spidermonkey I set the $PREFIX to /usr/local - as specified in ecmascript.text, I would assume that this caused all binaries that come with sm to be eventually installed in the /usr/local tree.. including the libjs lib. Are you saying that prior to installing the Debian package, you had built SpiderMonkey yourself and put it in /usr/local? Not sure what you mean by the Debian package - I used the spidermonkey tarball (since I needed to patch the source). As to the prior.. there never was a spidermonkey on this system before I did this install. I followed the ecmascript.txt instructions to the letter: 1. apt-get of the libsmjs1 libsmjs-dev 2. download + patch + build of spidermonkey As recommended, I changed the $PREFIX in the config.mk file to something more suitable than the default (/opt/spidermonkey, I think). As it happens I thought /usr/local was not likely to cause any problems with the debian packaging system so I copy/pasted the sed command provided as an example in the document. The only problem I see with ecmascript.txt is that it does not mention that on a debian (stable) system it may be necessary to manually add /usr/local/lib to /etc/ldconfig.so.conf. So maybe a reminder that the list of directories where ldconfig looks for libraries might need updating on some systems could help non-technical users like myself. In any case, have fun with ECMAScript! Well.. that was pretty much what I was wondering earlier.. now it's installed what good is it..? I mean in the real world.. I would imagine that it should be transparent.. Stuff that didn't work before should now work. I should have kept my prior version of elinks some place.. continued using that until I ran into a js disabled problem and switched to this version to see the difference. It's really very late over here so I just can't think of any site where I tried to access some gadget-y link and got denied with the previous version. But as far as I can tell most pages seem to use js to add some gimmicky rendering stuff that's not compatible with a text mode browser anyway.. so I'm not so sure it's really going to make much difference. The support in ELinks is adequate for the occasional alert, ECMAScript-based redirect, some documents that use ECMAScript to manipulate forms or require ECMAScript to submit the forms, and some other small things that shouldn't require ECMAScript anyway. It is foremost the cool dynamic document manipulation that is not presently supported. There have been a few success stories, and if you have a particular site that doesn't work, you can report it on IRC or the list, and it is possible that we might be able to add the necessary capability, if it isn't said cool dynamic document manipulation stuff. What kind of capabilities does the cool dynamic document manipulation provide? What I noticed is that most of the js links point to the launching of some multimedia stuff via adhoc plugins that I really have no time for.. but I'll keeep an eye open for problems with the regular stuff and report them here if any arise. Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 12:46:49PM EDT, Laurent MONIN wrote: On Wed, 05 Jul 2006 11:18:27 -0400 cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [SNIP] The only problem I see with ecmascript.txt is that it does not mention that on a debian (stable) system it may be necessary to manually add /usr/local/lib to /etc/ldconfig.so.conf. So maybe a reminder that the list of directories where ldconfig looks for libraries might need updating on some systems could help non-technical users like myself. This is done in current git tree (7e6c98dadfe58a407382737b47e31fa7485a4c06). I think you mean /etc/ld.so.conf instead of /etc/ldconfig.so.conf, am i wrong ? .. I did mention the fact that I am a non-technical user.. :-) What's a git tree? Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 01:04:55PM EDT, Thomas Adam wrote: On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 06:46:49PM +0200, Laurent MONIN wrote: This is done in current git tree (7e6c98dadfe58a407382737b47e31fa7485a4c06). I think you mean /etc/ld.so.conf instead of /etc/ldconfig.so.conf, am i wrong ? /etc/ld.so.conf, and note that adding /usr/local/lib should go at the end of the file, if *at all*. I never quite understood the fascination people have within adding directories almost ad-hoc into this file. It's potentially dangerous. that, of course, was my main concern. Consider if you will that /etc/ld.so.cache contains a compiled list of directories that are searched for libraries and an ordered list of candidate libraries. This is what the ldconfig(8) command does. But of course, some people have more than one copy of libraries installed -- and invariably this is bad. bad, I don't know.. but certainly awkward(?) Ideally, I would recommend setting LD_LIBARRY_PATH instead. I think you mean LD_LIBRARY_PATH, am i wrong? Sorry guys.. I couldn't resist this one.. :-) where do I set LD_LIBRARY_PATH.. and when? in this particular case where it's just a matter giving one application access to a particular lib outside the /etc/ld.so.cache scheme (as opposed to running two apps that require two different versions of the same lib, for instance) is it something I should just set in my ~/.profile? Or is it something I should set when I invoke ldconfig? Apologies for the low-level questions but I'm not at all familiar with linux system admnistration. Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 01:38:07PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 11:18:27AM -0400, cga2000 wrote: On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 05:24:18AM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: Are you saying that prior to installing the Debian package, you had built SpiderMonkey yourself and put it in /usr/local? Not sure what you mean by the Debian package - I used the spidermonkey tarball (since I needed to patch the source). As to the prior.. there never was a spidermonkey on this system before I did this install. I followed the ecmascript.txt instructions to the letter: 1. apt-get of the libsmjs1 libsmjs-dev 2. download + patch + build of spidermonkey [...] If you apt-get install SpiderMonkey, you are not supposed to follow the instructions to build it yourself--you only need one copy of SpiderMonkey. I have now made this explicit in doc/ecmascript.txt. My first message in this thread was precisely to verify that I should use the tarball as specified in ecmascript.txt rather than use the spidermonkey .deb. To which you replied that I should follow the ecmascript.txt instructions. Since these instructions indicated that I needed to patch the source, I assumed that you meant that the .deb was not suitable. As a result I did a regular tarball install of spidermonkey. What kind of capabilities does the cool dynamic document manipulation provide? For example, dynamic menus, list boxes that change their values when you change the values of other form controls, drag-and-drop... you can find many cool demos that don't work in ELinks at http://script.aculo.us/. Ta.. I tend to dislike all these gimmicks but I'm beginning to take an interest in js capabilities. Even if you think it's rather unnecessary nonsense, I guess it's a lot more comfortable to verify what it does before voicing an (unpopular, no doubt..) opinion. :-) What I noticed is that most of the js links point to the launching of some multimedia stuff via adhoc plugins that I really have no time for.. but I'll keeep an eye open for problems with the regular stuff and report them here if any arise. Some JS links work with ELinks's ECMAScript support, some do not. Indeed, fancy multimedia players are not going to work. I've run into a few of these already and it's a lot nicer to get to an almost empty page - where nothing happens, naturally - than getting this popup error message to the effect that js is not enabled. Thanks much for your patience. Where can I take a look at the updated ecmascript.txt..? Thanks, cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 07:23:45PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: [..] As a result I did a regular tarball install of spidermonkey. I replied to myself to clarify what I meant. Sorry for my initial response and that you missed my correction. [...] Thanks much for your patience. Where can I take a look at the updated ecmascript.txt..? http://pasky.or.cz/gitweb.cgi?p=elinks.git;a=blob;f=doc/ecmascript.txt There isn't really much to see--just a couple of short, new paragraphs. $ apt-cache search spidermonkey libsmjs-dev - Development files for the SpiderMonkey JS library libsmjs1 - The Mozilla SpiderMonkey JavaScript library spidermonkey-bin - Binaries of the SpiderMonkey interpreter spidermonkey-dev - Migration package for the SpiderMonkey JS library spidermonkey1 - Migration package for the SpiderMonkey JS library .. mind you, this is debian stable (sarge).. and since the ecmascript.txt document only mentions testing and unstable, it may still be necessary to do a tarball install of spidermonkey(?) To recap, the way I understand the new doc, what I should have done is: $ apt-get libsmjs1 libsmjs-dev spidermonkey-bin spidermonkey-dev $ cd ../elinks; ./configure; make; make install .. with the result that libjs lib would have been installed in /usr/lib/ .. this making a non-issue of my ldconfig problem, right? .. or did I also need to apt-get spidermonkey1? .. or would installing the two -dev packages have pulled all other necessary packages? At least to me this is still not very clearly explained in the revised version of the ecmascript.txt document. Anyway, just my 2cents.. Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] spidermonkey debs?
On Sat, Jul 08, 2006 at 12:51:32AM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Fri, Jul 07, 2006 at 12:54:27AM -0400, cga2000 wrote: On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 01:36:57PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Wed, Jul 05, 2006 at 11:46:18PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: .. or am I over-simplifying / missing something? How does the current revision look? Unless I missed it.. it still does not mention debian stable.. and since it's the only linux system I am running at this point I can't really comment on the changes. Curious. http://pasky.or.cz/gitweb.cgi?p=elinks.git;a=blob;f=doc/ecmascript.txt shows the revision that mentions stable when I reload it. How about http://pasky.or.cz/gitweb.cgi?p=elinks.git;a=blob;h=73f5ba00fec87b82ed506e07bad5279779753b43;hb=2962e29f2e15231551b9fe15a51facee210c7be0;f=doc/ecmascript.txt? That's more like it ... :-) I've no idea what happened and why I wasn't seeing these changes earlier. For debian and non-debian users alike, it's a lot clearer - remember that I went through the minor hassle of installing spidermonkey from source.. Maybe that for debian users the document should mention that in the event spidermonkey is not already installed the packages that they need to install are spidermonkey-bin and spidermonkey-dev? Or does the install of libsmjs-dev suffice? If the latter, the line that reads: Installing the -dev package will automatically pull in the library package. .. should read: Installing the -dev package will automatically pull in the spidermonkey engine and the library package. ? Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] New elinks user - three months of happiness..!!
On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 02:15:44AM EDT, Thomas Adam wrote: On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 01:51:44AM -0400, cga2000 wrote: I also have a minor problem with sites that use a screen-wide color background to highlight headings. But this may be due to my terminal (xterm+gnu/screen) configuration. I have this problem with the gentoo main page for instance and would be curious to know if others see the same thing I am seeing. I couldn't say -- the page looks fine to me. You could always take a screenshot. So, are you seeing the same thing as me? Or does your config render these background areas correctly? Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 02:05:35PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: [..] Do the browsers with which you are familiar actually check every time when you view a document (presumably using the HTTP If-Modified-Since header) whether there is a newer copy on the server? In mozilla it's customizable. Under Preferences Advanced Cache, you have the following options: Compare the page in the cache to the page on the network: . Every time I view the page . When the page is out of date . Once per session . Never I assume this to really mean.. :-) 'obtain and display' the page from the server in lieu of the one in the cache.. under the above circumstances.. rather than 'compare' which is not the same thing. Sorry for being splitting hairs. ELinks could do that, but it would be a little complex, and far too slow. Not really. I hit Ctrl-R all the time when accessing news sites where the contents change frequently and on a decent broadband connection *and* provided the server is responsive.. this does not result in any noticeable delay. IOW the reloading does not feel like it adds anything to the Ctrl-R action. OTOH doing the same thing in mozilla is quite slow on my machine.. not because of the time it takes to fetch a new version but appently because of the rendering (PIII 650MHz). This is one of the main reasons I have switched to elinks for pratcticall all web browsing.. couldn't put up with mozilla executing its million lines of code every time I displayed a new page. I can't even stand the behaviour with ignore_cache_control disabled, which only affects documents that explicitely signal that they should be reloaded from the server. I'm not sure what this is supposed to do. I set this flag to '0' as suggested in an earlier post and even though I cycled elinks I have not noticed a change in behavior. Such behaviour might be acceptable if done in the background, but then it would be a bit confusing (you load the document, you start to read it, then it suddenly updates while you're in the middling of reading it). The main problem that I have - even with pages whose contents do not change frequently such as an online docs/manuals is that the links on the page do not switch to their 'visited' color.. which sometimes makes it a bit confusing.. but no big deal, since I have gotten used to Ctrl-R'ing all the time without thinking. Since this mainly poses problem when hitting the back key - 'h' - maybe I should find a way to map this to a short script/macro that just does 'back'+'reload'? Hope the above is relevant. Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 04:43:30PM EDT, Reid Rivenburgh wrote: On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 04:36:29PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: OTOH doing the same thing in mozilla is quite slow on my machine.. not because of the time it takes to fetch a new version but appently because of the rendering (PIII 650MHz). This is one of the main reasons I have switched to elinks for pratcticall all web browsing.. couldn't put up with mozilla executing its million lines of code every time I displayed a new page. I understand your grief. :-) The very latest Firefox alpha or beta seems quite a bit better in that regard; you might want to give it a try. I've also heard that the SpiderMonkey - the new mozilla has marked improvements in the area. But slow rendering was only one of the issues. I have switched to a keyboard-only text-mode 'desktop' - interface, I should say and I am a much happier man. Since this mainly poses problem when hitting the back key - 'h' - maybe I should find a way to map this to a short script/macro that just does 'back'+'reload'? As someone mentioned earlier, you can use the keybinding manager to associate back with Follow the current link, forcing reload of the target. I think that's what you want. Unfortunately, I use the mouse to navigate pages, and I don't think there's any way at the moment to configure actions called by mouse clicks. Drop the mouse man..! Charles Darwin is categorical.. You'll never grow a third arm in your lifetime. Oh.. and as to developers being 'whimsical' relative to enhancements, I think not.. That's exactly why I barged into your thread.. The list is really the place where you can voice an opinion.. and since this caching behavior was something that struck me as being fundamentally different from the other browser.. Not sure it's a bad thing, though.. I briefly mentioned it but Miciah has a good point.. when the server is unresponsive it's OK I guess if you explicitly ask for a reload.. Maybe less so when the reload is done on a transparent basis every time you hit the back button (eg.). Thanks cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 05:31:42PM EDT, Reid Rivenburgh wrote: On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 05:10:42PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: I've also heard that the SpiderMonkey - the new mozilla has marked improvements in the area. But slow rendering was only one of the issues. I have switched to a keyboard-only text-mode 'desktop' - interface, I should say and I am a much happier man. Nice. I don't think I could get by with text-only in my main browser FYI, I think there's a Firefox extension that is aimed at keyboard-only use. Never used it, though. I'll look it up.. Although I'm sceptical.. Microsoft did a very good job of making gui's navigable via the keyboard but you cannot change the fact that the gui designer was thinking *mouse* when he designed the layout.. etc. Just and example.. in many guis I have seen you may have to drill down three.. four.. five..? levels of dialog/popup boxes the size of a postage stamp (some of them you'll even have to reach for that scrollbar so you can get to what you're looking for..) before you eventually get to the particular flag or whatever that you want to change.. While this is perfectly suitable with the inherent slowness of the mouse, it becomes rather annnoying when you use a considerably faster interface like the keyboard. Drop the mouse man..! Charles Darwin is categorical.. You'll never grow a third arm in your lifetime. Oh it's no problem, I use my tail to control the mouse! :) :-) Not that I'm particularly happy with the keyboard either. The traditional typewriter keyboard was bad enough but what IBM did to it is beyond words.. Only solace I find in a keyboard-only environment is its relative simplicity (as compared with keyboard+mouse) .. Even a fairly large number of inconsistant keyboard shortcuts across applications is in my case a tad more efficient than switching action mode every other second. Oh.. and as to developers being 'whimsical' relative to enhancements, I think not.. That's exactly why I barged into your thread.. The list is really the place where you can voice an opinion.. and since this caching behavior was something that struck me as being fundamentally different from the other browser.. Not sure it's a bad thing, though.. I briefly mentioned it but Miciah has a good point.. when the server is unresponsive it's OK I guess if you explicitly ask for a reload.. Maybe less so when the reload is done on a transparent basis every time you hit the back button (eg.). I guess whims was a bad word to use. so far they haven't objected... I just wanted to explain that I understand it's open source and that the developers can do what they like. I don't think they may.. or can. Whatever they may state in their disclaimers they just cannot pull the plug on a piece of software that has some degree of following... And in fact they very rarely do so.. one of the nice things about OSS is that when it happens someone else will step in.. if the software is worth the effort.. that is.. (?) As to *being able* to do what they like.. it's pretty much the same thing.. too much change that turns out to be unsatisfactory and the user community will just not take it.. someone forks the project.. etc. .. like .. I'm a vim user/fan.. now Bram Moolenaar et al. all of a sudden see the light and the next version of Vim turns out to be an MS Word clone... how 'bout that? I do hope someone will implement/improve CSS rendering some time soon, though.. Not that I spend much time on commercial web sites.. but a growing number are getting hard to read. Yeah.. that's how you eventually get them to pay attention.. .. moan consistently on the list with a bunch of other troublemakers until they really get sick of it.. OK.. fixed in CVS - GIT, I mean.. now p*ss off.. :-) Sure, having a discussion on this list is one way to convince them that your way is the right way! (So here goes:) As for the cache issue, I think the current method is not good from a usability standpoint. It sounds like he and I use ELinks in different ways so he doesn't run into this problem often, plus he places a lot of value on speed. I think if Mozilla or Firefox worked the same way, the majority of users would be up in arms! .. interesting point.. but then they have been conditioned by years of IE ( Netscape) abuse in so many ways.. So that may or may not be an argument.. I found this behavior a bit disconcerting at first but after a couple of weeks I've grown used to it. As mentioned in an earlier post, and provided I fully understand the issue, this would appear to be something that can be customized in mozilla.. don't know about FF, though. So if I was in charge of ELinks development, I'd make the Mozilla compare automatically (or whatever it is) be the default but put in Mozilla's other settings as options. Then everyone could be happy. .. and call the option something else rather than
Re: [elinks-users] Cache problems?
On Fri, Jul 21, 2006 at 07:08:15AM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Wed, Jul 19, 2006: On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 05:31:42PM EDT, Reid Rivenburgh wrote: On Wed, Jul 19, 2006 at 05:10:42PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: Oh.. and as to developers being 'whimsical' relative to enhancements, I think not.. That's exactly why I barged into your thread.. The list is really the place where you can voice an opinion.. and since this caching behavior was something that struck me as being fundamentally different from the other browser.. Not sure it's a bad thing, though.. I briefly mentioned it but Miciah has a good point.. when the server is unresponsive it's OK I guess if you explicitly ask for a reload.. Maybe less so when the reload is done on a transparent basis every time you hit the back button (eg.). I guess whims was a bad word to use. so far they haven't objected... We can take it and occationally use name-calling to refer to users (including ourself). ;) .. read a fortune the other day .. don't have the exact wording.. basically stated that 'user' is the term hackers use in lieu of 'idiot'. Now, how's that for name-calling? :-) .. but more to the point .. developers are necessarily the first users of the product .. sometimes it's not a bad idea to remind them that they are not the *only* users of their product .. though I must say that in the case of ELinks I have yet to see any instance of this behavior. I just wanted to explain that I understand it's open source and that the developers can do what they like. I don't think they may.. or can. Whatever they may state in their disclaimers they just cannot pull the plug on a piece of software that has some degree of following... And in fact they very rarely do so.. one of the nice things about OSS is that when it happens someone else will step in.. if the software is worth the effort.. that is.. (?) Optimally there should exist a kind of synergy where both parts thrive from each others effort. Some of the best times I've experienced has been where a user has taken on feeding me with input. well, I do try to participate whenever I feel something concerns me.. and try to keep my mouth shut when I have nothing to say.. Of course this requires that both parts are participating, and too often that is not the case. Over the years, ELinks development has been happening with some intense months followed by utter silence (from the developers). This probably doesn't inspire a lot of users to feedback their ideas and problems since you occationally hit a bad time where no developers have time to respond. This is why we have bugzilla. Add to this that the developers mostly hang out on IRC and communicate there, which might also not encourage users to participate when the dev team seems to closely knit. what's (much) worse is a closely knit group of old timers who claim to know everything tho they never made any significant contribution to the project .. A lot of this has to do with the fact that the ELinks project is probably a little odd and doesn't attract a lot of developers. .. or users? While I've been part of the project there has been a core of the same 4-5 developers and often only a few of them being active at any one time. Add to this, that only a few developers are ready to invest the time it takes to do a major surgery of the code and ELinks development mostly ends up being minor improvements, cleanups, and optimizations. This is fine since ELinks, in my opinion, is mostly feature complete, but this also means that quite a few of the major TODOs have not been addressed. Thankfully, once in a while an outsider shows up and takes on doing a major overhaul in one area. As to *being able* to do what they like.. it's pretty much the same thing.. too much change that turns out to be unsatisfactory and the user community will just not take it.. someone forks the project.. etc. I admit that I haven't been a good maintainer and am open to people wanting to help out making the ELinks releases more frequent, for example by making the maintainership be passed on after a year. Of course this requires that there exists a person who are willing to take on this obligation. Being only a handfull of more or less stable developers probably makes this harder. I know I haven't shown a lot of leadership, mostly because I don't believe in that. ELinks being a project based on peoples free time, it feels wrong to assume anything about anyone's, except my own time. However, as a maintainer, I could probably be better in pointing in a direction, for example I haven't made a roadmap. The biggest problem for me is that I want to devote more time to my studying, which I feel I have neglected in favour of working on ELinks. Also, I want to be able to participate in other OSS projects to get more experience. So I
Re: [elinks-users] Ctrl-4 mapping -- kills elinks session?
On Mon, Sep 18, 2006 at 12:40:14PM EDT, Miciah Dashiel Butler Masters wrote: On Sun, Sep 17, 2006 at 05:41:45PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: I frequently issue a Ctrl-R to reload web pages and once in a while I miss the R key and hit the 4 key -- just above the E and R keys on a US keyboard. What happens is that: 1. I still see the original web page but it is overwritten by a shell prompt -- about 20% down the page. As far as I can tell, in this instance, CTRL-4 is equivalent to some form of SIGKILL, terminating the ELinks process and bypassing the Do you really want to exit ELinks popup screen. Actually, CTRL-4 (also known as ^\) sends SIGQUIT. This is like ^C (SIGINT), except that it leaves a core file. Well .. fancy that .. Did a CTRL-V CTRL-4 and .. right you are .. Weird I never ran into this before .. 2. The shell session I end up in is frozen and does not accept a refresh screen command (Ctrl-L). 3. If I hit Enter after hitting Ctrl-L the screen is cleared but hitting Enter again displays a second prompt on the same line as the first one .. etc. ad Nauseam Aeternam .. 4. If I try to use this shell session and issue commands such as ls .. top .. etc. they behave normally after I hit enter but the commands that I type are no longer echoed back to the terminal. 5. I need to issue a blind reset command to get the terminal to work normally again. Has anyone seen this? I haven't seen that behaviour, but it is understandable that ELinks leaves the terminal in a strange state. If you press Ctrl-C, ELinks catches the SIGINT signal and returns the terminal to its state from before ELinks was started, but since ELinks doesn't catch a SIGQUIT, it doesn't have the chance to clean up. Makes very good sense .. I had never issued a CTRL-C -- either accidentally or with quitting in mind and it does what one would expect. Is there any way I could deactivate this annoying Ctrl-4 key combo? On a POSIX system, you can disable the key with the stty(1) utility: stty quit '' ELinks could catch the signal, but that would defeat the purpose of having the key, don't you think? :-) I have checked the Keybinding manager and the screen configuration file but I haven't found anything. Also it only seems to affect ELinks: I checked a few other ncurses applications as well as a bare bash shell and when I hit Ctrl-4 nothing happened. How odd. Apparantly, everybody else thinks that it is fine to ignore the signal. Fooled around a little more and it turns out mutt does the same. Not sure why bash doesn't, though.. I thought for a second that the shell in my xterm bombed and that xterm automatically launched a new one but this is apparently not the case. I did a before and after .. $ echo $$ .. and the pid of the shell didn't change. Well.. hopefully someone will have run into this and knows the whys and the wherefores of this peculiar phenomenon and perhaps have found a workaround .. I would much appreciate any pointers in the right direction since it always happens under the worse circumstances and it's both a time waster and source of aggravation to lose a session with a dozen tabs open right when you're in the middle of something. See Setup - Options manager - User interface - Periodic snapshotting. Kewl. For the record, in my version of ELinks () it is under .. Setup - Options manager - User interface - Sessions - Periodic snapshotting. .. shouldn't snapshooting be more correct..? ;-) HTH, As always. Thanks much and have a great day. cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] youtube.com in ELinks?
On Wed, Sep 19, 2007 at 06:46:50PM EDT, Thomas Adam wrote: On 19/09/2007, cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was wondering if there is any way I can cause ELinks to invoke a media player when the selected link is something like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbfrL4L5GME Look in: contrib/smjs In the ELinks source tarball (or a GIT clone). Assuming you compile in spidermonkey support you can use the youtube.js file contained therein. Thank you Thomas! I will look into this and let you know. cga ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
Re: [elinks-users] Google advanced search - New version messed up in ELinks
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 03:49:26PM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Sun, Mar 16, 2008: On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 12:32:36PM EDT, Jonas Fonseca wrote: cga2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Fri, Mar 14, 2008: http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en is the link but you may still have to select advanced search Anyone knows why this is messed up and if there's anything I can do about it? They seem to have strings such as 'td ...' inside the script tags which confuses ELinks. Hmm.. should this be considered an ELinks bug or is it some new feature that's not (yet?) supported? You could classify it as a parser bug. On the other hand, google could be nicer by wrapping their HTML outputting scripts with !-- and --. All the more annoying since google are usually pretty good at supporting less standard presentations -- their news page, e.g. has a text version. Maybe they need to be made aware of the superior ELinks browser and advised that they need to support it! ___ elinks-users mailing list elinks-users@linuxfromscratch.org http://linuxfromscratch.org/mailman/listinfo/elinks-users
