Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-12-10 Thread Dewey Garrett
I've done some work on joints_axes9 recently. (latest work is
a test branch anticipating joints_axes10: dgarr/ja10v2 rebased
on master commit 638aba7)

Sim configs are used to verify/test operation with different
kinematics modules ([1]).  Most sim configs are working ([2] for
moreinfo), but two guis seem to be broken in the current release
branch ([3] for context and more info):

  mini -- fails at startup in 2.7 (with tk8.6, starts with tk8.5)
  keystick -- jogging doesn't work correctly in 2.7

I have never heard of anyone using either of these guis in recent
years and suggest removing them in git-master unless someone volunteers
to update and maintain them.

---
1) Kinematics testing resources:
   trivkinsidentity kins with fixed assignments
   (joint0-->X, joint1-->Y, etc.)
   (with trivkins, it is sometimes necessary
to employ dummy axes, e.g., configure
a lathe (XZ) as a three axes machine
with an unused Y axis)
   gentrivkins-identity kins with assignments defined with
   a module parameter: 'coordinates='
   (default assignments are trivkins)
   non-identity kins---no required joints/axes correspondence
   (lineardeltakins for example)

   A youtube video shows some testing of jogging modes:
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdvcHJeDoEI

   Some example sim configs used in testing are:
 configs/sim/axis/ldelta_demo.ini
 configs/sim/axis/gentrivkins/*.ini
 configs/sim/tklinuxcnc/ldelta.ini
---
2) WORKING GUIs
  axis-- works with trivkins, gentrivkins, non-identity kins
  tklinuxcnc  -- works with trivkins, gentrivkins, non-identity kins
  halui   -- works with trivkins, gentrivkins, non-identity kins
  linuxcncrsh -- works with trivkins, gentrivkins, non-identity kins
 (to jog in joint,  issue: 'set teleop_enable off')
 (to jog in teleop, issue: 'set teleop_enable on')
  touchy  -- works with trivkins
 (error reported if jog attempted in teleop mode)
  gscreen -- works with trivkins
 (if teleop, jogging causes auto switch to joint mode)
  gmoccapy-- works with trivkins
 (error reported if jog attempted in teleop mode)
  xlinuxcnc   -- works with trivkins
 (error reported if jog attempted in teleop mode)

  linuxcnclcd -- (emclcd.cc)
 seems to require special hardware but there is
 no documentation (2.7), emclcd.cc says:
 "This program implements a limited user
 interface on an LCD display and keypad,
 such as the MX4 series made by Matrix Orbital.
   http://www.matrixorbital.com
 The layout is for a 4 line by 20 character
 display.
 Supported interfaces include Serial and USB."

 last substantive update: a7d1300 2008-11-10
 
 Since it uses the jog functions provided by
 shcom.cc, i've made the same updates as in
 other programs (emcrsh.cc, emcsh.cc (tklinuxcnc))
 so it should likely work in the default 
 joint mode and work for identity kins.
---
3) NON-WORKING GUIs
   Testing Context:
   LinuxCNC 2.7.3
   Debian jessie
   4.1.0-0.bpo.2-rt-amd64
   tcl_version:8.6, tk_version:8.6

2.1) mini
 $ linuxcnc configs/sim/low_graphics/mini.ini
 At startup:
 "Error in startup script: cannot use geometry manager grid
  inside .top.left which already has slaves managed by pack"

 Tested on: Lucid,2.6.32-122-rtai, LinuxCNC 2.7 (at commit 6f1195e)
 and the mini gui starts.  This system has tcl/tk 8.5 -- so i
 would guess the problem relates to incompatibilites in the with
 the geometry managers in the later version of tk (8.6)

2.2) keystick.ini
 $ linuxcnc configs/sim/low_graphics/keystick.ini
 F1 (Estop off)
 F2 (Machine On)
 F3 (Manual Mode)

 then test jogging:
   continuous:
 moves on first keypress/release (arrow key, x axis)
 no move on next keypress/release 
   incremental:
 similar wrong behavior

 similar results negative results for:
 Lucid,2.6.32-122-rtai, LinuxCNC 2.7 (at commit 6f1195e)
-- 
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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-29 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky
On 9/29/15 8:57 AM, Curtis Dutton wrote:
> I've been using joints axes for about a year now. I've managed to merge
> master into it recently to pick up all of the latest trajectory planner
> changes. I'm using a gantry machine with 2 X-AXIS servos, and an indexer
> via gantrykins. I've been meaning to try to improve it as I can, but my
> time has been severely limited and it is a big project.
>
> I'm all for the merge myself. But there will be a rough period as everyone
> scrambles to try and fix all of the other issues that users will find. Its
> a breaking change, and very worthwhile in my opinion, but there will be
> pain for users, there is no way to avoid that.

It's great to hear it's been working well for you.  It's been working 
well for me also, except for the one rather severe and rather silly bug 
I mentioned.

As I said, I agree we should merge it sooner rather than later, 
hopefully early in the 2.8 development phase.


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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-29 Thread Curtis Dutton
I've been using joints axes for about a year now. I've managed to merge
master into it recently to pick up all of the latest trajectory planner
changes. I'm using a gantry machine with 2 X-AXIS servos, and an indexer
via gantrykins. I've been meaning to try to improve it as I can, but my
time has been severely limited and it is a big project.

I'm all for the merge myself. But there will be a rough period as everyone
scrambles to try and fix all of the other issues that users will find. Its
a breaking change, and very worthwhile in my opinion, but there will be
pain for users, there is no way to avoid that.



On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 8:13 PM, EBo  wrote:

> On Sep 28 2015 6:00 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
> > ...
> > Well we force people all the time - that's how we more forward.
> > switching to debian from ubuntu forced me to do work.
> > any changes to config forces me to do work on stepconf or pncconf.
> > Changes to hostmot2 usually forces me to do work.
> > force is a strong word but I wasn't sure what word fit properly.
>
> cattle-prod (ahem) how about motivation?
>
>
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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-28 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky
On 9/28/15 10:51 AM, EBo wrote:
> On Sep 28 2015 8:37 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>> On 9/28/15 12:41 AM, Chris Morley wrote:
>>> Personally I think if we really want this included in linuxcnc in a
>>> reasonably
>>> amount of time we should create a 2.8 branch now and then merge
>>> Joints_Axes
>>> into master.
>>> Based on the past, that puts Joints_Axes into the two years +
>>> position for release.
>>>
>>> It seems to me the only way to get it done is to 'force' more
>>> developers to fix the issues.
>>> eg I'm not going to fix stepconf or pncconf to work with Joints
>>> until I know it will be released.
>>>
>>> Merge it and lets get it done.
>>
>> I think we should merge JA into master before the 2.8 branch.  We
>> just
>> released 2.7, so this is a fine time for big experimental features.
>>
>> But i strongly disagree that we should merge it while it has such
>> glaring known problems.  JA does not not currently work on lathes, or
>> on
>> other machines with non-consecutive axes!  That's unacceptable in
>> master, IMO.
>>
>> When someone volunteers their time and fixes this bug, it will be
>> closer
>> to mergeable.  But "forcing" has no place in a volunteer
>> organization.
>
> non-consecutive axes?  I am not aware of that term.  I probably know
> what you mean, but not by that name...

It's a term I just made up.  I mean machines with multiple axes from the 
list "XYZABCUVW" but with gaps.  For example, lathes have axes "XZ", so 
the missing Y makes X and Z non-consecutive.

Try running the sim/axis/lathe config on joints_axes to see the error 
i'm talking about.


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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-28 Thread EBo
On Sep 28 2015 8:37 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 9/28/15 12:41 AM, Chris Morley wrote:
>> Personally I think if we really want this included in linuxcnc in a 
>> reasonably
>> amount of time we should create a 2.8 branch now and then merge 
>> Joints_Axes
>> into master.
>> Based on the past, that puts Joints_Axes into the two years + 
>> position for release.
>>
>> It seems to me the only way to get it done is to 'force' more 
>> developers to fix the issues.
>> eg I'm not going to fix stepconf or pncconf to work with Joints 
>> until I know it will be released.
>>
>> Merge it and lets get it done.
>
> I think we should merge JA into master before the 2.8 branch.  We 
> just
> released 2.7, so this is a fine time for big experimental features.
>
> But i strongly disagree that we should merge it while it has such
> glaring known problems.  JA does not not currently work on lathes, or 
> on
> other machines with non-consecutive axes!  That's unacceptable in
> master, IMO.
>
> When someone volunteers their time and fixes this bug, it will be 
> closer
> to mergeable.  But "forcing" has no place in a volunteer 
> organization.

non-consecutive axes?  I am not aware of that term.  I probably know 
what you mean, but not by that name...

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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-28 Thread EBo
On Sep 28 2015 10:54 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> On 9/28/15 10:51 AM, EBo wrote:
>> On Sep 28 2015 8:37 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>>> On 9/28/15 12:41 AM, Chris Morley wrote:
 Personally I think if we really want this included in linuxcnc in 
 a
 reasonably
 amount of time we should create a 2.8 branch now and then merge
 Joints_Axes
 into master.
 Based on the past, that puts Joints_Axes into the two years +
 position for release.

 It seems to me the only way to get it done is to 'force' more
 developers to fix the issues.
 eg I'm not going to fix stepconf or pncconf to work with Joints
 until I know it will be released.

 Merge it and lets get it done.
>>>
>>> I think we should merge JA into master before the 2.8 branch.  We
>>> just
>>> released 2.7, so this is a fine time for big experimental features.
>>>
>>> But i strongly disagree that we should merge it while it has such
>>> glaring known problems.  JA does not not currently work on lathes, 
>>> or
>>> on
>>> other machines with non-consecutive axes!  That's unacceptable in
>>> master, IMO.
>>>
>>> When someone volunteers their time and fixes this bug, it will be
>>> closer
>>> to mergeable.  But "forcing" has no place in a volunteer
>>> organization.
>>
>> non-consecutive axes?  I am not aware of that term.  I probably know
>> what you mean, but not by that name...
>
> It's a term I just made up.  I mean machines with multiple axes from 
> the
> list "XYZABCUVW" but with gaps.  For example, lathes have axes "XZ", 
> so
> the missing Y makes X and Z non-consecutive.
>
> Try running the sim/axis/lathe config on joints_axes to see the error
> i'm talking about.

OK.  This makes sense.  It seems strange that that would trigger an 
error, and I agree that would be a show stopper in the master branch.

   EBo --

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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-28 Thread Chris Radek
I have a fresh rebase of JA almost ready, and Seb is working on a
(lathe-like) test that shows what we know is broken.  We should have
this ready for folks to test or work on, soon.

I think JA should be in the next release branch, not next+1.

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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-28 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky
On 9/28/15 12:41 AM, Chris Morley wrote:
> Personally I think if we really want this included in linuxcnc in a reasonably
> amount of time we should create a 2.8 branch now and then merge Joints_Axes
> into master.
> Based on the past, that puts Joints_Axes into the two years + position for 
> release.
>
> It seems to me the only way to get it done is to 'force' more developers to 
> fix the issues.
> eg I'm not going to fix stepconf or pncconf to work with Joints until I know 
> it will be released.
>
> Merge it and lets get it done.

I think we should merge JA into master before the 2.8 branch.  We just 
released 2.7, so this is a fine time for big experimental features.

But i strongly disagree that we should merge it while it has such 
glaring known problems.  JA does not not currently work on lathes, or on 
other machines with non-consecutive axes!  That's unacceptable in 
master, IMO.

When someone volunteers their time and fixes this bug, it will be closer 
to mergeable.  But "forcing" has no place in a volunteer organization.


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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-28 Thread Chris Morley


> From: bodge...@gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 15:32:53 +0100
> To: emc-developers@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes
> 
> The last 2 weeks has seen more kinematics questions on the forum than
> the previous 2 years.
> I don't know why, but it does make me wonder if JA is near merge?
> 
> Aparently there was a problem with nonconsecutive joints, but no JA
> config should have nonconsecutive _joints_ as it just wastes CPU and
> memory.
> 
> If the issue is with the auto-conversion of non-consecutive _axes_
> from non-JA configs then that might be my bug to fix.
> 
> 
> -- 
> atp

Personally I think if we really want this included in linuxcnc in a reasonably
amount of time we should create a 2.8 branch now and then merge Joints_Axes
into master.
Based on the past, that puts Joints_Axes into the two years + position for 
release.

It seems to me the only way to get it done is to 'force' more developers to fix 
the issues.
eg I'm not going to fix stepconf or pncconf to work with Joints until I know it 
will be released.

Merge it and lets get it done.

Chris M
  
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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-28 Thread Chris Morley



> I think we should merge JA into master before the 2.8 branch.  We just 
> released 2.7, so this is a fine time for big experimental features.
> 
> But i strongly disagree that we should merge it while it has such 
> glaring known problems.  JA does not not currently work on lathes, or on 
> other machines with non-consecutive axes!  That's unacceptable in 
> master, IMO.
> 
> When someone volunteers their time and fixes this bug, it will be closer 
> to mergeable.  But "forcing" has no place in a volunteer organization.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sebastian Kuzminsky

Well we force people all the time - that's how we more forward.
switching to debian from ubuntu forced me to do work.
any changes to config forces me to do work on stepconf or pncconf.
Changes to hostmot2 usually forces me to do work.
force is a strong word but I wasn't sure what word fit properly.

Do you mean you someone will update stepconf and pncconf and all the guis
(I assume they will need work) before JA will be merged?

If you pull out 2.8 now (maybe be liberal with what can go in it for a while)
and then merge JA into master that gives plenty of time to fix the issues.

But until it's in master it will take forever to get it mergeable - whats it 
been 6 years?
It's one of those features that is hard to move forward on it's own because few
people _need_ it right now but after it's in it opens up possibilities.

If you put it in master then It _needs_ to be fixed and it will be fixed.
If you and others think it is _way_ to far from being fixable or has unfixable 
issues
then that is different altogether - but that doesn't seem to be the case.

If JA is a worthwhile feature then IMHO its time to make it happen, not another 
5 years
down the road.

But that's just my opinion of course maybe no one feels the same.

Chris M
  
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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-28 Thread EBo
On Sep 28 2015 6:00 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
> ...
> Well we force people all the time - that's how we more forward.
> switching to debian from ubuntu forced me to do work.
> any changes to config forces me to do work on stepconf or pncconf.
> Changes to hostmot2 usually forces me to do work.
> force is a strong word but I wasn't sure what word fit properly.

cattle-prod (ahem) how about motivation?

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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-23 Thread andy pugh
On 23 September 2015 at 16:17, Sebastian Kuzminsky  wrote:
> On 9/23/15 9:11 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
>> Here is what happens when you run sim/axis/lathe.ini on cradek/joints_axes7:

That looks like a problem with Gremlin / Axis preview. I wonder how
that is related to JA?

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[Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-23 Thread andy pugh
The last 2 weeks has seen more kinematics questions on the forum than
the previous 2 years.
I don't know why, but it does make me wonder if JA is near merge?

Aparently there was a problem with nonconsecutive joints, but no JA
config should have nonconsecutive _joints_ as it just wastes CPU and
memory.

If the issue is with the auto-conversion of non-consecutive _axes_
from non-JA configs then that might be my bug to fix.


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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-23 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky
On 9/23/15 9:11 AM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> Here is what happens when you run sim/axis/lathe.ini on cradek/joints_axes7:
>
> http://paste.ubuntu.com/12531672/

Oops, the "git describe" output in that paste does not show branch 
information well.  scripts/get-version-from-git says it's
v2.8.0~pre1-ja-cradek-joints-axes7~5b703af, which is the tip of 
cradek/joints_axes7.

sim/axis/lathe.ini gets auto-converted from the pre-ja config to the 
post-ja config the first time you load it, which is very cool.


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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-23 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky
On 9/23/15 8:32 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> The last 2 weeks has seen more kinematics questions on the forum than
> the previous 2 years.
> I don't know why, but it does make me wonder if JA is near merge?
>
> Aparently there was a problem with nonconsecutive joints, but no JA
> config should have nonconsecutive _joints_ as it just wastes CPU and
> memory.
>
> If the issue is with the auto-conversion of non-consecutive _axes_
> from non-JA configs then that might be my bug to fix.

Here is what happens when you run sim/axis/lathe.ini on cradek/joints_axes7:

http://paste.ubuntu.com/12531672/

The machine comes out of estop but fails to home.

I have not tried to debug it.


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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-23 Thread Chris Radek
On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 03:32:53PM +0100, andy pugh wrote:
> The last 2 weeks has seen more kinematics questions on the forum than
> the previous 2 years.
> I don't know why, but it does make me wonder if JA is near merge?
> 
> Aparently there was a problem with nonconsecutive joints, but no JA
> config should have nonconsecutive _joints_ as it just wastes CPU and
> memory.
> 
> If the issue is with the auto-conversion of non-consecutive _axes_
> from non-JA configs then that might be my bug to fix.


My memory (somewhat fuzzy) was that it was non-consecutive axes;
specifically it was an XYZB config (we tried it on sam's machine).
Our testing showed that the same problems occurred with XZ lathes.

I don't remember exactly what the symptoms were but it was an early
and obvious failure, like not being able to home and run gcode.

I do not think it was a problem with the config (and therefore not
with the autoconversion) but maybe I just didn't figure it out.

I haven't tried running it lately.  Did you try it?


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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes

2015-09-23 Thread andy pugh
On 23 September 2015 at 22:34, Chris Radek  wrote:
> I haven't tried running it lately.  Did you try it?

No, I have been successfully filling my life with other things.

But IRC conversation seemed to suggest that gentrivkins was the
answer, and we discussed the possibility of simply replacing trivkins
with gentrivkins (ie, renaming gentrivkins to trivkins and making it
default to trivkins-like behaviour)

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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes Convention

2013-10-22 Thread Rick Lair
Thanks for the help, that looks easy enough going by the wiki, as for
building from a different branch that's gonna throw me a curve ball for
sure, I'm still not a 100% on using the command line, but I'm sure I will
get it, I've made it this far.


Thanks

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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes Convention

2013-10-22 Thread EBo
On Oct 22 2013 5:04 AM, Rick Lair wrote:
 Thanks for the help, that looks easy enough going by the wiki, as for
 building from a different branch that's gonna throw me a curve ball 
 for
 sure, I'm still not a 100% on using the command line, but I'm sure I 
 will
 get it, I've made it this far.

what tools do you normally use?  There are GUI front ends to help deal 
with git/mercurial, switch between branches, etc., if you want/need 
them.  Is that what you are looking for?

   EBo --


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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes Convention

2013-10-22 Thread Rick Lair
Hey Ebo,

I am going to try to run Michael Haberler's Jog while Paused demo on my
turning center I am working on right now. That way I can give him as much
feed back as possible for it, so he can get it mainstream. I have never had
a need to work on any other branch than the normal master branch, I
normally just build from source using master, apply the tool offset patch,
and use a run in place config.

Thanks

Rick Lair
Superior Roll  Turning LLC.
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
(734) 279-1831
www.superiorroll.com
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[Emc-developers] Joints_Axes Convention

2013-10-18 Thread Rick Lair
Hello All,

How do I go about changing my config around to the joints_axes type
configuration, that way I can try the Jog while paused option out?


 Thanks

Rick Lair
Superior Roll  Turning LLC.
399 East Center Street
Petersburg MI, 49270
(734) 279-1831
www.superiorroll.com
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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes Convention

2013-10-18 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky


Rick Lair r...@superiorroll.com wrote:
Hello All,

How do I go about changing my config around to the joints_axes type
configuration, that way I can try the Jog while paused option out?


Here's the config changes needed for joints_axes4:

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?JointAxesBranch


Then check out and build the jog-while-paused branch (sorry I don't know the 
right name of it).


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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Re: [Emc-developers] Joints_Axes Convention

2013-10-18 Thread andy pugh
On 18 October 2013 21:06, Sebastian Kuzminsky s...@highlab.com wrote:

 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?JointAxesBranch

The very-lazy way is to make all the [AXIS_N] sections into [JOINT_N]
versions. Then copy and paste them in their entirety and make the
copies in to [AXIS_X/Y/Z] versions. That way the software will always
find what it wants, where it expects it.

The drawback of this lazy approach is that you won't know which one
you need to change to actually get a change in behaviour.

-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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