RE: board scanning on the cheap (sort of)

[Price, Ed]

>-Original Message-
>From: brent.dew...@us.datex-ohmeda.com
>[mailto:brent.dew...@us.datex-ohmeda.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 1:03 PM
>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>Subject: board scanning on the cheap (sort of)
>
>
>
>With all this talk about visualization, I thought I'd toss in my bit.
>
>Here at Datex-Ohmeda we have a small NC mill sometimes used by the R&D
>group to make small prototype parts, but it often sits idle.  
>Since I have
>a spectrum analyzer and a variety of small dimension H and E 
>field probes
>I've built, I thought it would be interesting to build the 
>equivalent of an
>EMScan.  The control program is being written in LabVIEW and is coming
>along pretty well.  One nice thing about the mill is that I 
>can program the
>scan height for any rectangle I define, so tall components can 
>be hopped
>over.  When it's all done, I should be able to play a frequency swept
>"movie" of the board on an intensity graph.  The cheaper way to do this
>would be to find an older X-Y plotter and skip the height 
>variation.  If I
>ever get the beast done, it will be open source to LabVIEW users.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Brent DeWitt
>Datex-Ohmeda
>Louisville, CO
>

Brent:

That sounds like a good project.  But what about the conductive /
reflective effect of that big spindle? Maybe you should mount any probe on
the end of a long, stiff non-conductive rod. Assuming that you can crank the
table down pretty far, you might be able to chuck an 18" rod in the spindle.


Regards,

Ed



Ed Price
ed.pr...@cubic.com
Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab
Cubic Defense Systems
San Diego, CA  USA
858-505-2780  (Voice)
858-505-1583  (Fax)
Military & Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty
Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis

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board scanning on the cheap (sort of)

[brent . dewitt]

With all this talk about visualization, I thought I'd toss in my bit.

Here at Datex-Ohmeda we have a small NC mill sometimes used by the R&D
group to make small prototype parts, but it often sits idle.  Since I have
a spectrum analyzer and a variety of small dimension H and E field probes
I've built, I thought it would be interesting to build the equivalent of an
EMScan.  The control program is being written in LabVIEW and is coming
along pretty well.  One nice thing about the mill is that I can program the
scan height for any rectangle I define, so tall components can be hopped
over.  When it's all done, I should be able to play a frequency swept
"movie" of the board on an intensity graph.  The cheaper way to do this
would be to find an older X-Y plotter and skip the height variation.  If I
ever get the beast done, it will be open source to LabVIEW users.

Best regards,

Brent DeWitt
Datex-Ohmeda
Louisville, CO


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Re: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)

[Frank Krozel]

RE: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)
- Original Message -
From: Frank Krozel
To: George Stults ; 'Ehler, Kyle' ; 'Ken Javor' ;
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)


Hi George:
You are most correct the earlier units did only have frequency coverage to
1.0Ghz, but the newer units go up to 2.7Ghz.
Frank Krozel

Frank Krozel
TEL: 630-924-1600
FAX: 630-924-1668
MOBILE: 630-258-5421 (24/7)
TEL: 630-653-9090 Home
Electronic Instrument Associates-Central, Inc.
Serving the Midwest with Electrical Engineers Since 1971
Website: http://www.electronicinstrument.com
123 East Lake St.
Suite 300
Bloomingdale, IL 60108
- Original Message -
From: George Stults
To: 'Ehler, Kyle' ; 'Ken Javor' ; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 8:09 AM
Subject: RE: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)


I also looked at EMSCAN about 2 years ago.  I seem to recall that it was
limited to a little over 1GHz on the top end at that time.   We didn't buy
it, because we had harmonics above 1 GHz.

-George

-Original Message-
From: Ehler, Kyle [mailto:keh...@lsil.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 12:24 PM
To: 'Ken Javor'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)

I mini-evaluated an EMSCAN about 4 years ago.  Cute tool!
At the time, this little gem utilized a planar array of 1,024 microantennae,
coupled to an RF processor and pc.
The radiation display is a user-variable-interpolation color map (spectral
or spatial), but a bit imprecise in X-Y location, and forget about the Z
plane.  You could see a circuit trace acting as an emitter, but you have to
be diligent in comparing the pwb layout with the schematic and the tool's
radiation profile report.  It was also a bit slow.  That might have changed
since then.
Here's a link:  http://www.emscan.com/product/prodline.html
I could not sell our pcb design engineers on the tool -not even for use as a
prescanner.  Now our mechanical folks are having a dickens of a time
containing 2Gbps fibre channel harmonics after the pcb design is done.
Thanks for the job security. 
The biggest problem with this weapon was the absolute need for close
proximity and repeatable indexing.  This severely affects the accuracy and
repeatability of the results, making before/after comparisons questionable.
For many of us, placing an operating pwb on a planar surface for scanning
presents a major challenge.
I dont know about you, but we have a backplane that the pwb plugs into, then
of course there is cabling, power supplies and cooling to worry about.  Not
to mention the CRU canisters for each module.  Then it needs to be
functional.
I witnessed differences in emission profile that were highly sensitive to
operating modes of the firmware loops and application software.  It is
extremely difficult if not impossible to do an accurate comparison of a bare
board to an assembled and completely functioning EUT.  So you are forced to
scan a bare board rather than a fully configured and functioning system.
For our purposes (debugging the EMI containment) this was of no
practicality.  Back to sniffer loops and horns..
On the other hand, one of the proper ways to design for compliance is to
design for containment of the emissions at the [board level] source.  This
is where the practicality of the EMSCAN comes into play.  I found the tool's
virtue for scanning the solder side of the board (close proximity)
excellent, but for the component side (which is where most of the radiation
sources and fixes would occur) the proximity was poor, grossly affecting the
location and precision of the readings.
btw I dont work for, or have any connection with, EMSCAN.
kyle
-Original Message-
From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com]
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:58 PM
To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: TV nostalgia

You could use an array of very short dipoles or small loops and gain in
resolution by giving up efficiency, meaning that the viewer would have to be
near the source.  Although I have no detailed knowledge of it, I expect this
is the principle behind the devices upon which you lay an operating PCB and
the device maps hot spots.  But clearly you will never get optical or IR
viewer resolutions.
--
>From: John Woodgate 
>To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
>Subject: Re: TV nostalgia
>Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2001, 12:28 PM
>
>
> <95fbd8b0830ed511b7720002a51363f1319...@exw-ks.ks.lsil.com>, Ehler, Kyle
>  inimitably wrote:
>>Doug has touched on what I think would be a great tool for the
>>EMI hunter...but rather than a 'sniffer', a 'goggle' similar
>>to what Geordi wears that facilitates the direct viewing of EM
radiation.
>>
>>Ideally, the device would allow adjustable band 'viewing' of the
radiation
>>frequency, intensity, polarity and propagation pattern(s).
>
> Yes, it sounds muc

Re: IEEE EMC Society Website Problem ( FTP'ing....)

[Frank Krozel]

- Original Message -
From: Frank Krozel
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 12:37 PM
Subject: IEEE EMC Society Website Problem ( FTP'ing)


Hi all:
I am responsible for our local chapter website, and I have been attempting
to FTP news to our membership, but my password doesn't seem to be working.
My past contact, dwesterv...@ieee.org is bouncing as well.
Anyone out there have any information on who I need to contact on this
issue???
Frank







Frank Krozel
TEL: 630-924-1600
FAX: 630-924-1668
MOBILE: 630-258-5421 (24/7)
TEL: 630-653-9090 Home
Electronic Instrument Associates-Central, Inc.
Serving the Midwest with Electrical Engineers Since 1971
Website: http://www.electronicinstrument.com
123 East Lake St.
Suite 300
Bloomingdale, IL 60108


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All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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IEEE EMC Society Website Problem ( FTP'ing....)

[Frank Krozel]

Hi all:
I am responsible for our local chapter website, and I have been attempting to 
FTP news to our membership, but my password doesn't seem to be working.
My past contact, dwesterv...@ieee.org is bouncing as well.
Anyone out there have any information on who I need to contact on this issue???
Frank







Frank Krozel
TEL: 630-924-1600
FAX: 630-924-1668
MOBILE: 630-258-5421 (24/7)
TEL: 630-653-9090 Home
Electronic Instrument Associates-Central, Inc.
Serving the Midwest with Electrical Engineers Since 1971 
Website: http://www.electronicinstrument.com
123 East Lake St.
Suite 300
Bloomingdale, IL 60108

RE: EMI sniffer goggles

[POWELL, DOUG]

The sheet material you linked is for DC magnetic fields and it is made by
Magne-Rite® ( http://www.magnerite.com/  ).
Since it uses Ni particle movement I doubt it will even get close to 30Mhz.
 
One other question, how does one sniff with their eyes?
 
-doug
 
=
Douglas E. Powell
Regulatory Compliance Engineer
Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
1625 Sharp Point Dr.
Ft. Collins, Co 80525

mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com  
www.advanced-energy.com  
=
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
From: Ehler, Kyle [mailto:keh...@lsil.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 9:19 AM
To: 'Wan Juang Foo'; EMC-PSTC Discussion Group
Subject: RE: EMI sniffer goggles



Hi Tim, 
Welcome to the fray.. 
There is in existence a sheet material that exhibits these properties 
however, the flux sensitivity may not be sufficient for practical use 
with EMI work.  I suspect it is for intense near field only. 
Here's a link: http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet34.html
  

Has anybody experienced this material? 

-kyle 

-Original Message- 
From: Wan Juang Foo [ mailto:f...@np.edu.sg  ] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:28 PM 
To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group 
Subject: Re: EMI sniffer goggles 




I suppose that can be achieve with some class of liquid crystals embedded 
in a polymer medium.  The problem is that is the representation in the near 
field or just a plane (cross section). 

I will prefer a none intrusive gas or vapour that will 'glow' at different 
field intensity and colour, very much like a corona or  aurora.  :-)  Now 
we can have a glass tank 'gas chamber' within an anechoic chamber to 
evaluate the field strengths in 3D.  Then the argument will be that there 
will be different gasses for different frequent frequency ranges ;-)  Just 
think about the possible effect on the environment. 

Dreams comes true when we want them to... 


Tim Foo, 
(or just call me 'Tim') 
   E-mail:  f...@np.edu.sg 
ECE, School of Engineering, 
http://www.np.edu.sg/ece/ 
Tel: + 65 460 6143 
Ngee Ann Polytechnic,  Fax: + 65 467 1730 
535 Clementi Road, 
Singapore 599489 



 





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Re: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)

[Frank Krozel]

RE: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)Hi George:
You are most correct the earlier units did only have frequency coverage to 
1.0Ghz, but the newer units go up to 2.7Ghz.
Frank Krozel

Frank Krozel
TEL: 630-924-1600
FAX: 630-924-1668
MOBILE: 630-258-5421 (24/7)
TEL: 630-653-9090 Home
Electronic Instrument Associates-Central, Inc.
Serving the Midwest with Electrical Engineers Since 1971 
Website: http://www.electronicinstrument.com
123 East Lake St.
Suite 300
Bloomingdale, IL 60108
  - Original Message - 
  From: George Stults 
  To: 'Ehler, Kyle' ; 'Ken Javor' ; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 8:09 AM
  Subject: RE: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)


  I also looked at EMSCAN about 2 years ago.  I seem to recall that it was 
limited to a little over 1GHz on the top end at that time.   We didn't buy it, 
because we had harmonics above 1 GHz. 

   

  -George

   

  -Original Message-
  From: Ehler, Kyle [mailto:keh...@lsil.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 12:24 PM
  To: 'Ken Javor'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
  Subject: RE: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)

   

  I mini-evaluated an EMSCAN about 4 years ago.  Cute tool! 
  At the time, this little gem utilized a planar array of 1,024 microantennae, 
coupled to an RF processor and pc. 
  The radiation display is a user-variable-interpolation color map (spectral or 
spatial), but a bit imprecise in X-Y location, and forget about the Z plane.  
You could see a circuit trace acting as an emitter, but you have to be diligent 
in comparing the pwb layout with the schematic and the tool's radiation profile 
report.  It was also a bit slow.  That might have changed since then.

  Here's a link:  http://www.emscan.com/product/prodline.html 

  I could not sell our pcb design engineers on the tool -not even for use as a 
prescanner.  Now our mechanical folks are having a dickens of a time containing 
2Gbps fibre channel harmonics after the pcb design is done.  Thanks for the job 
security. 

  The biggest problem with this weapon was the absolute need for close 
proximity and repeatable indexing.  This severely affects the accuracy and 
repeatability of the results, making before/after comparisons questionable.

  For many of us, placing an operating pwb on a planar surface for scanning 
presents a major challenge. 
  I dont know about you, but we have a backplane that the pwb plugs into, then 
of course there is cabling, power supplies and cooling to worry about.  Not to 
mention the CRU canisters for each module.  Then it needs to be functional.

  I witnessed differences in emission profile that were highly sensitive to 
operating modes of the firmware loops and application software.  It is 
extremely difficult if not impossible to do an accurate comparison of a bare 
board to an assembled and completely functioning EUT.  So you are forced to 
scan a bare board rather than a fully configured and functioning system.  For 
our purposes (debugging the EMI containment) this was of no practicality.  Back 
to sniffer loops and horns..

  On the other hand, one of the proper ways to design for compliance is to 
design for containment of the emissions at the [board level] source.  This is 
where the practicality of the EMSCAN comes into play.  I found the tool's 
virtue for scanning the solder side of the board (close proximity) excellent, 
but for the component side (which is where most of the radiation sources and 
fixes would occur) the proximity was poor, grossly affecting the location and 
precision of the readings.

  btw I dont work for, or have any connection with, EMSCAN. 
  kyle 

  -Original Message- 
  From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] 
  Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:58 PM 
  To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
  Subject: Re: TV nostalgia 

   

  You could use an array of very short dipoles or small loops and gain in 
  resolution by giving up efficiency, meaning that the viewer would have to be 
  near the source.  Although I have no detailed knowledge of it, I expect this 
  is the principle behind the devices upon which you lay an operating PCB and 
  the device maps hot spots.  But clearly you will never get optical or IR 
  viewer resolutions. 

  -- 
  >From: John Woodgate  
  >To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
  >Subject: Re: TV nostalgia 
  >Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2001, 12:28 PM 
  > 

  > 
  > <95fbd8b0830ed511b7720002a51363f1319...@exw-ks.ks.lsil.com>, Ehler, Kyle 
  >  inimitably wrote: 
  >>Doug has touched on what I think would be a great tool for the 
  >>EMI hunter...but rather than a 'sniffer', a 'goggle' similar 
  >>to what Geordi wears that facilitates the direct viewing of EM 
radiation. 
  >> 
  >>Ideally, the device would allow adjustable band 'viewing' of the 
radiation 
  >>frequency, intensity, polarity and propagation pattern(s). 
  > 
  > Yes, it sounds much more attractive than a s

Re: ESD - time between successive discharges

[Ralph Cameron]

John:

I thought I had lost your original statement about CE not having a bearing
on Quality. I would agree also. The statement was made, as I recall, in some
article in Compliance Engineering.  Not that UL is a quality mark or RU or
FCC 15 etc.   Quality is highly dependant on how your marketing people
perceive it and refers to appearance, dependability, reputation, need
fulfillment and a host of things thought to benefit the cutomer - from the
manufacturer's view.

On the other hand a CE mark is a rating of performance and how many
consumers even know about it?  I ask every computer salesman I have occasion
to meet the meaning of CE and I have yet to find one who knows. After I
explain it to him, he agrees that some generic immunity is a good thing.

If you look at all the components and larger computer peripherls now bearing
a CE mark, it must be cost effective to include it.

I suppress consumer equipment that suffers from no immunity with a simple
non intrusive method and suggest to the same consumer to be aware and next
time look for a product with the CE mark.   I yet to encounter a problem
with a CE marked product ( modems, video cards, displays, CD players, and
even boom boxes) that could never hack it in today's RF environment.

CE is a consumer benefit because it guarnatees a minimum level of immunity
With all these domestic wireless devices , it makes prudent engineering
sense. Designed in is the only way to go. I don't want to do this forever.

Ralph Cameron
EMC Consulting and Suppression of Consumer Electronics.
(after sale)

- Original Message -
From: "John Woodgate" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: ESD - time between successive discharges


>
> <95fbd8b0830ed511b7720002a51363f1319...@exw-ks.ks.lsil.com>, Ehler, Kyle
>  inimitably wrote:
> >
> >No John, I'm not referring to you. (or anyone else in particular) I
dont
> >know you well enough -yet..
> >I'm just spaking on how we do the job of ensuring that our products
meet the
> >standards.
>
> I only pick up typos when they are amusing (like, 'We then repeated the
> tests for completemess.'), or could create confusion.
> >
> >We take this work very seriously and I agree with you that the CE
mark is
> >not a quality mark,
>
> Good; my comment was directed to those who might think it is.
>
> I agree with most of the rest of your comments.
> --
> Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
> This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or
protected
> by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means
YOU!
> The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied
in
> any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the
sender
> yesterday at the latest.
>
> ---
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>
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
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>
>


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Re: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)

[Noiseless]

We have found the limited resolution of EMCscan to limit (!) its usefulness - 
it can't pinpoint IC level problems, for example. Although marketed for 
emissions work,  it is not usually the best tool if you are hunting down 
radiated emissions, since its response to (large) differential-mode currents 
will tend to swamp out its response to (small) common-mode currents.  The 
color plots are fun to look and occasionally can spark some intuition.

As Kyle said, the practical requirement of laying a PCB flat against it makes 
it tough to use for much of our work.

Lee Hill
Silent Solutions LLC
EMC Consulting & Training
www.silent-solutions.com


In a message dated 8/8/2001 11:26:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
george.stu...@watchguard.com writes:


> From:george.stu...@watchguard.com (George Stults)
> Sender:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Reply-to:george.stu...@watchguard.com (George Stults)
> To:keh...@lsil.com ('Ehler, Kyle'), ken.ja...@emccompliance.com ('Ken 
> Javor'), emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also looked at EMSCAN about 2 years ago.  I seem to recall that it was 
> limited to a little over 1GHz on the top end at that time.   We didn’t buy 
> it, because we had harmonics above 1 GHz. 
>  
> -George
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Ehler, Kyle [mailto:keh...@lsil.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 12:24 PM
> To: 'Ken Javor'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Subject: RE: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)
>  
> I mini-evaluated an EMSCAN about 4 years ago.  Cute tool! 
> At the time, this little gem utilized a planar array of 1,024 
> microantennae, coupled to an RF processor and pc. 
> The radiation display is a user-variable-interpolation color map (spectral 
> or spatial), but a bit imprecise in X-Y location, and forget about the Z 
> plane.  You could see a circuit trace acting as an emitter, but you have to 
> be diligent in comparing the pwb layout with the schematic and the tool's 
> radiation profile report.  It was also a bit slow.  That might have changed 
> since then.
> Here's a link:   HREF="http://www.emscan.com/product/prodline.html";>http://www.emscan.com/product/prodline.html
>  
> I could not sell our pcb design engineers on the tool -not even for use as 
> a prescanner.  Now our mechanical folks are having a dickens of a time 
> containing 2Gbps fibre channel harmonics after the pcb design is done.  
> Thanks for the job security. 
> The biggest problem with this weapon was the absolute need for close 
> proximity and repeatable indexing.  This severely affects the accuracy and 
> repeatability of the results, making before/after comparisons questionable..
> For many of us, placing an operating pwb on a planar surface for scanning 
> presents a major challenge. 
> I dont know about you, but we have a backplane that the pwb plugs into, 
> then of course there is cabling, power supplies and cooling to worry about.. 
>  Not to mention the CRU canisters for each module.  Then it needs to be 
> functional.
> I witnessed differences in emission profile that were highly sensitive to 
> operating modes of the firmware loops and application software.  It is 
> extremely difficult if not impossible to do an accurate comparison of a 
> bare board to an assembled and completely functioning EUT.  So you are 
> forced to scan a bare board rather than a fully configured and functioning 
> system.  For our purposes (debugging the EMI containment) this was of no 
> practicality.  Back to sniffer loops and horns..
> On the other hand, one of the proper ways to design for compliance is to 
> design for containment of the emissions at the [board level] source.  This 
> is where the practicality of the EMSCAN comes into play.  I found the 
> tool's virtue for scanning the solder side of the board (close proximity) 
> excellent, but for the component side (which is where most of the radiation 
> sources and fixes would occur) the proximity was poor, grossly affecting 
> the location and precision of the readings.
> btw I dont work for, or have any connection with, EMSCAN. 
> kyle 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Ken Javor [ HREF="mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com";>mailto:ken..ja...@emccompliance.com]
>  
> Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 5:58 PM 
> To: John Woodgate; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
> Subject: Re: TV nostalgia 
>  
> You could use an array of very short dipoles or small loops and gain in 
> resolution by giving up efficiency, meaning that the viewer would have to be
>  
> near the source.  Although I have no detailed knowledge of it, I expect this
>  
> is the principle behind the devices upon which you lay an operating PCB and 
> the device maps hot spots.  But clearly you will never get optical or IR 
> viewer resolutions. 
> -- 
> >From: John Woodgate  
> >To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org 
> >Subject: Re: TV nostalgia 
> >Date: Mon, Aug 6, 2001, 12:28 PM 
> > 
> > 
> > <95fbd8b0830ed511b7720002a51363f1319...@exw-ks.ks.lsil.c

RE: EMI sniffer goggles

[Ehler, Kyle]

Hi Tim,
Welcome to the fray..
There is in existence a sheet material that exhibits these properties
however, the flux sensitivity may not be sufficient for practical use 
with EMI work.  I suspect it is for intense near field only.
Here's a link: http://www.wondermagnet.com/dev/magnet34.html

Has anybody experienced this material?

-kyle

-Original Message-
From: Wan Juang Foo [mailto:f...@np.edu.sg]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 8:28 PM
To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group
Subject: Re: EMI sniffer goggles




I suppose that can be achieve with some class of liquid crystals embedded
in a polymer medium.  The problem is that is the representation in the near
field or just a plane (cross section).

I will prefer a none intrusive gas or vapour that will 'glow' at different
field intensity and colour, very much like a corona or  aurora.  :-)  Now
we can have a glass tank 'gas chamber' within an anechoic chamber to
evaluate the field strengths in 3D.  Then the argument will be that there
will be different gasses for different frequent frequency ranges ;-)  Just
think about the possible effect on the environment.

Dreams comes true when we want them to...


Tim Foo,
(or just call me 'Tim')
   E-mail:  f...@np.edu.sg
ECE, School of Engineering,
http://www.np.edu.sg/ece/  Tel: + 65 460 6143
Ngee Ann Polytechnic,  Fax: + 65 467 1730
535 Clementi Road,
Singapore 599489



 

RE: EMSCAN (was TV nostalgia/EMI sniffer goggle)

[George Stults]

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Re: EMI sniffer goggles

[Ken Javor]

I hate to be a spoilsport but I believe we are also missing something which
will react at millivolt or milliamp/meter field intensities.  All these
other sensors are reacting to relatively strong stimuli.

--
>From: "Veit, Andy" 
>To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group 
>Subject: RE: EMI sniffer goggles
>Date: Wed, Aug 8, 2001, 7:23 AM
>

>
> Along the lines of "EMI sensitive paper"...
>
> There is such a thing for viewing magnetic fields, funnily enough.  Its
> called "Magnetic Viewing Paper" and McMaster Carr has it for $14.22 for 27
> square inches, p/n 5702K21.  When the paper is laid over magnets, the paper
> shows the outline and shape of the field lines.  Its handy for checking
> magnet assemblies for motors, and I have seen it used for this purpose.
>
> Another interesting paper is the new "electronic paper" being developed for
> electronic books.  Embedded in the construction of the paper are millions of
> tiny spheres.  Half of each sphere is black, half white.  The spheres are
> aligned during the "printing" process with magnetic fields to show light or
> dark areas.  There were photos and an article in the new issue of one of the
> free design rags that pile up on my desk.
>
> And don't forget that X-rays have been used to expose film for over 100
> years.
>
> Sounds like we're "just" missing something sensitive to the portion of the
> spectrum between DC and X-rays! ;-)
>
> -Andy
>
> Andrew Veit
> Systems Design Engineer
> MTS Systems Corp
> Ph: 919.677.2507
> Fax: 919.677.2480
> 1001 Sheldon Drive
> Cary, NC 27513
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Doug McKean [mailto:dmck...@corp.auspex.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 5:18 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group
> Subject: Re: EMI sniffer goggles
>
>
>
> Okay, here's what I'd like to have ...
>
> Translucent material which is color responsive to emi.
> Similar to the material on the side of batteries which
> responds to voltage levels.
>
> A pane of translucent material which can be put on the
> end of a stick much like a pane of glass or a pane of
> of it which could be stood from a floor support next
> to the product and show a pattern of emi strengths
> by color.
>
> Or, a thin sheet of it much like plastic wrap which can
> be placed on a part of a product (such as a surface or
> edge) which would also respond to field strength.
>
> Or, I could rip off a sheet much like plastic wrap about
> a foot long and place over a pcb and instantly "see" the
> emi patterns produced by the board.
>
> Near or far field use.
>
> There'd be 2 versions of the material: one for electric
> fields which would respond with various shades of
> red and another for magnetic fields which would
> respond in various shades of blue.
>
> - Doug McKean
>
>
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
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Re: Emitters Within a CO

[Cortland Richmond]

You need to keep fields below the NEBS immunity limits, which  are pretty
low, IMHO. However, a 300 mW cellphone is not the same danger as a 5 watt
high-band HT.

Cortland

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Fwd: RE: ETSI EMC Standard

[Paolo Gemma]

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 12:13:38 +0200
To: umbdenst...@sensormatic.com
From: Paolo Gemma 
Subject: RE: ETSI EMC Standard

I am involved in ETSI
The change was drive by IEC 61000-4-3 that approved this modification to 
the basic standards.
A similar change is also in the ETSI standards EN 300 386 regarding the 
non radio telecommunication equipments.

Ciao
Paolo
At 01:19 PM 8/7/01 -0400, you wrote:


Regarding the change in the standard, has anyone started to look into an
upgrade to their compact chambers for stre-e-e-etching the frequency to 2
GHz?  If so, what upgrades did you find most cost effective for

*   signal generator
*   amplifier
*   antenna
*   sensor
*   e-field probe
*   chamber lining modifications

Perhaps we can develop a database of options and trade-offs before we need
to spend the big bucks.

Don Umbdenstock
Sensormatic ?


> --
> From: wo...@sensormatic.com[SMTP:wo...@sensormatic.com]
> Reply To: wo...@sensormatic.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:15 AM
> To:   emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Subject:  ETSI EMC Stadard
>
>
> The final draft of the proposed revision of ETSI EN 301 489-1 is in the
> voting stage. This standard sets the emissions and immunity requirements
> for
> most all transmitters. A major change has been made to the radiated
> immunity
> requirements by adding the frequencies between 1400 MHz and 2000 MHz. I
> was
> told that this change is being driven by CISPR and may be based upon a
> CISPR
> standard. Does anyone have any information in this regard?
>
> Richard Woods
>
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
>
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
>
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--
Paolo Gemma
Siemens Information and Communication Network spa
Microwave Networks MW R&D NSA EMC
SS Padana sup. KM 158 20060 Cassina de'Pecchi (MI) Italy
phone +39 02 9526 6587fax +39 02 9526 6203
mobile +39 348 3690185
e-mail paolo.ge...@icn.siemens.it

--



--
Paolo Gemma
Siemens Information and Communication Network spa
Microwave Networks MW R&D NSA EMC
SS Padana sup. KM 158 20060 Cassina de'Pecchi (MI) Italy
phone +39 02 9526 6587fax +39 02 9526 6203
mobile +39 348 3690185
e-mail paolo.ge...@icn.siemens.it

--

Wrist Medical Device with a GSM Link

[Peter Merguerian]

Dear All,

I am looking into step by step procedure for approving a medical device -
worn by patients with heart problems on the wrist on a daily basis. Device
includes non-invasive sensors for diagnosis of body temperature, blood
pressure, ECG and oximeter. The device includes a GSM modem by Siemens TC35,
an antenna like on a cellphone, a lithium battery pack, a microcontroller
unit, flash memory  and  a data link controller, all on printed boards
within this high density packaged medical device. My questions are as
follows:

1. What is the procedure to obtain GSM radio approvals in 1) Europe 2)
Canada 3) US?

2. What are the applicable GSM radio standards in Europe, Canada and US? 

3. What are some well known labs in Europe which can give radio approvals
quickly and efficiently.

4. Assuming the TC35 GSM modem module within the device has CE for Europe
under the RTTE,  is there a requirement to obtain radio approvals on the
complete device in Europe? 

5.. Assuming the TC35 GSM modem module within the device has US and Canada
radio approvals,  is there a requirement to obtain radio approvals on the
complete device in North America?

6. Does Canada have a similar approval procedure like the FDA in the States
regarding medical devices?

7. Can this product be FDA approved under the 510K program (ie is there a
similar product out there)?

8. What would be the environmental requirements for this type of device?


PETER S. MERGUERIAN
Technical Director
I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd.
26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211
Or Yehuda 60251, Israel
Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022  Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019
Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175






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radiated immunity > 2 GHz

[Pommerenke, David]

I upgraded a chamber at hp and looked at:

 1) How to pass the 16 point call up to 3 GHz
 2) How to upgrade /change add absorbers
 3) Which commercial antenna works best from 26 Mhz - 3 GHz
 4) How much power is needed.
 5) How well does the signal repeat.
 6) Field probes
 7) etc.

The lab is the Hewlett-Packard Roseville Hardware Test Lab.

On (2): It turned out that adding absorbers to the floor always spoiled the
low frequency (about 80-150MHz) if it improved the high frequency. No matter
which absorber type or arrangement on the ferrite-floor tried. 
But one topology worked very well:  Having 5 inch absorbers placed 60 cm
above the ground (on a Styrofoam support). Two of those absorbers were
placed between the antenna and the turntable. In this arrangement the 16
point cal was passed from 26 MHz to 2.9 GHz (I did not measure any higher).
The "shadow" of the absorber did not reduce the field strength at lower
frequencies below 0.8 m height a lot (although there is no regulation on the
field strength below 0.8 m).

I looked at different log-per antennas (needed power, effect on 16point cal,
robustness, weight, handling, SWR, etc.). None of them was a clear winner.
Gain wise (judging by needed [power to achieve a certain field strength in
this specific chamber), the EMC-Automation antenna was a little a head, but
it is also larger and quite heavy.

Cable loss is an important factor. Using 25 Watt and having about 3m cable
will allow 10 V/m, but there may already be some distortion in the
modulation. I think 25 Watts is the minimum for10 V/m from 1 GHz to 3 GHz.

Signal reproduction is not that bad, but mechanical positions of absorbers,
antenna etc. needs to be controlled very well.

All the field probes I tested had some problems. Some did not fulfill their
isotropicity specifications, some did not fulfill the frequency response
specifications some did not allow the promised number of measurements a
second. But for every probe there was a combination of position relative to
the field and sampling rate at which it provided good data.

If you need any further information, contact me.

If you want to use the chamber for immunity testing contact Ken Hall
ken_h...@hp.com

David Pommerenke

University Missouri-Rolla, 1870 Minor Circle,  118 EECH
Rolla, MO 65409-0040
ph:  573 341 4531
home: 573 341 5835
fax: 573 341 4532  
email: pommere...@ece.umr.edu


-Original Message-
From: wo...@sensormatic.com [mailto:wo...@sensormatic.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 1:41 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: RE: ETSI EMC Standard



An ETSI representative told me that he thought that most all EU labs have
upgraded their chambers and equipment and are now ready to test. That same
person asked if the US labs were also ready? 

Let's hear from both sides of the Atlantic. Are you prepared?

Richard Woods

--
From:  umbdenst...@sensormatic.com
[SMTP:umbdenst...@sensormatic.com]
Sent:  Tuesday, August 07, 2001 1:20 PM
To:  emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject:  RE: ETSI EMC Standard


Regarding the change in the standard, has anyone started to look
into an
upgrade to their compact chambers for stre-e-e-etching the frequency
to 2
GHz?  If so, what upgrades did you find most cost effective for 

*   signal generator
*   amplifier
*   antenna
*   sensor
*   e-field probe
*   chamber lining modifications

Perhaps we can develop a database of options and trade-offs before
we need
to spend the big bucks.

Don Umbdenstock
Sensormatic ?


> --
> From: wo...@sensormatic.com[SMTP:wo...@sensormatic.com]
> Reply To: wo...@sensormatic.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 10:15 AM
> To:   emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Subject:  ETSI EMC Stadard
> 
> 
> The final draft of the proposed revision of ETSI EN 301 489-1 is
in the
> voting stage. This standard sets the emissions and immunity
requirements
> for
> most all transmitters. A major change has been made to the
radiated
> immunity
> requirements by adding the frequencies between 1400 MHz and 2000
MHz. I
> was
> told that this change is being driven by CISPR and may be based
upon a
> CISPR
> standard. Does anyone have any information in this regard?
> 
> Richard Woods
> 
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> 
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
> 
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>  majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc

Re: Emitters Within a CO

[Eric Petitpierre]

Ed,

I don't know of any "approved" cell phones that can be used within a cental 
office.  It seems like it would be up to each central office/telco to make that 
decision.

As far as field strength from cell phones, 5 to 10 V/m is what I have also heard
 As you may know, GR-1089 has an RF immunity requirement of 1.7 V/m  from  120 
kHz to 10 GHz.  It is 8.5 V/m for the Conditional Requirement.
A couple of possibilities:
1. The switching engineer was able to confirm the cell phone was operating in a 
reduced power mode.  May be the case if the transmission distance to the cell 
station was not large.

2. The frequencies involved were far enough away from the critical ones used in 
telecom, such as 772 kHz, 1.544 MHz, 155 MHz etc..

3. All of the equipment in the central office met 10 V/m immunity.  Not likely,
since 8.5 V/m is the GR-1089 limit.  Also , much of the older equipment was not 
designed for immunity.

I have heard about cell phones taking down equipment.  Would be even more 
likely when the equipment doors are open or off.  A remark I heard, correlated 
by personal  observation, is that if a door is removable, it stays off. " We 
need to gain access to the equipment quickly if there is a problem" is the 
reply to that one.

So, I think the cell phone operators are taking a chance.. 
Would be interested in what others have to say..

Regards,
Eric Petitpierre
Pulsecom
Herndon, VA
Opinions personal, not corporate.


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RE: EMI sniffer goggles

[Roman, Dan]

In a past job (10 years ago) another compliance engineer and myself were
discussing how nice it would be to have "EMI sunglasses" while working on
fixing a particularly noisy and troublesome piece of equipment.  The idea
was inspired by the X-ray glasses sold on the back cover of comic books.

Might be a good ad to take out in the April issue of Compliance Engineering
or Conformity magazines!

Dan

-Original Message-
From: Wan Juang Foo [mailto:f...@np.edu.sg]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:28 PM
To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group
Subject: Re: EMI sniffer goggles




I suppose that can be achieve with some class of liquid crystals embedded
in a polymer medium.  The problem is that is the representation in the near
field or just a plane (cross section).

I will prefer a none intrusive gas or vapour that will 'glow' at different
field intensity and colour, very much like a corona or  aurora.  :-)  Now
we can have a glass tank 'gas chamber' within an anechoic chamber to
evaluate the field strengths in 3D.  Then the argument will be that there
will be different gasses for different frequent frequency ranges ;-)  Just
think about the possible effect on the environment.

Dreams comes true when we want them to...


Tim Foo,
(or just call me 'Tim')
   E-mail:  f...@np.edu.sg
ECE, School of Engineering,
http://www.np.edu.sg/ece/  Tel: + 65 460 6143
Ngee Ann Polytechnic,  Fax: + 65 467 1730
535 Clementi Road,
Singapore 599489



 

"Doug McKean"


m> cc: (bcc: Wan Juang
Foo/ece/staff/npnet) 
Sent by:   Subject: Re: EMI
sniffer goggles 
owner-emc-pstc@majordom

o.ieee.org

 

 

08/08/01 05:18 AM

Please respond to "Doug

McKean"

 

 






Okay, here's what I'd like to have ...

Translucent material which is color responsive to emi.
Similar to the material on the side of batteries which
responds to voltage levels.

A pane of translucent material which can be put on the
end of a stick much like a pane of glass or a pane of
of it which could be stood from a floor support next
to the product and show a pattern of emi strengths
by color.

Or, a thin sheet of it much like plastic wrap which can
be placed on a part of a product (such as a surface or
edge) which would also respond to field strength.









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RE: Mexico question

[Stone, Richard A (Richard)]

You can get NOM exemption by meeting certain criteria
for specialized equipment.
Fast microprocessors,used in special places ( CO's) and not touched
by non-technical people.

this does not give you a NOM mark, but you get a letter
stating its OK to ship into Mexico based on its specialized application.

Richard,

>  -Original Message-
> From: Alejandro Torrecilla Torregrosa
> [mailto:atorreci...@cetecom.es] 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 6:59 AM
> To:   EMC-PSTC1; Massey, Doug C.
> Subject:  RE: Mexico question
> 
> Hi Doug,
> 
> NOM-001 includes electrical safety requirements and testing methods for
> type approval of household electronic apparatus as TVs, remote control,
> microwaves,...
> NOM-016 includes electrical safety requirements and testing methods for
> electronic apparatus for use in office as fax machines, photocopiers,...
> NOM-019 includes electrical safety requirements for data processing
> equipment as Laptops, notebooks, palmtops,..., their peripherals
> (printers, plotters, monitors,...) and equipment used to communicate such
> devices as routers, hubs,...
> 
> In NOM-001 and NOM-016, the scope includes not only devices connected to
> AC Mains, but also conected to other kind of power supply as batteries.
> The scope of NOM-019 does not specify whether the devices are connected to
> the AC mains or not. In fact, it is not limited to devices connected to AC
> mains. Notice also that the standard is based on IEC65 and IEC950 whose
> scope is not limited to equipment connected to AC mains. As far as I
> understand, any ITE equipment must be NOM certified. The exception is when
> the device is going to be sold into another device (as modem cards) in
> which case the whole product requires NOM certification.
> 
> Hope it helps,
> 
> Alejandro
> 
>   --
>   De: Massey, Doug C.[SMTP:masse...@ems-t.com]
>   Responder a:Massey, Doug C.
>   Enviado el: martes 7 de agosto de 2001 23:20
>   Para:   IEEE - PSTC FORUM (E-mail)
>   Asunto: Mexico question
> 
> 
>   Hello folks -
> 
>   Can anyone tell me if an ITE device that does not connect to AC
> Mains must
>   be NOM certified in order to market the device in Mexico?
> 
>   One internet link says all ITE, another says AC Mains connected
> equipment -
>   I'm confused. Does anyone have a link to or a list of regulated
> products?
> 
>   Thanks
> 
>   Doug Massey
>   Safety Approvals Engineer
>   LXE, Inc.
>   Ph.   (770) 447-4224 x3607
>   FAX (770) 447-6928
>   Visit our web home at http://www.lxe.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   ---
>   This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
>   Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
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RE: EMI sniffer goggles

[Veit, Andy]

Along the lines of "EMI sensitive paper"...

There is such a thing for viewing magnetic fields, funnily enough.  Its
called "Magnetic Viewing Paper" and McMaster Carr has it for $14.22 for 27
square inches, p/n 5702K21.  When the paper is laid over magnets, the paper
shows the outline and shape of the field lines.  Its handy for checking
magnet assemblies for motors, and I have seen it used for this purpose.

Another interesting paper is the new "electronic paper" being developed for
electronic books.  Embedded in the construction of the paper are millions of
tiny spheres.  Half of each sphere is black, half white.  The spheres are
aligned during the "printing" process with magnetic fields to show light or
dark areas.  There were photos and an article in the new issue of one of the
free design rags that pile up on my desk.

And don't forget that X-rays have been used to expose film for over 100
years.

Sounds like we're "just" missing something sensitive to the portion of the
spectrum between DC and X-rays! ;-)

-Andy

Andrew Veit
Systems Design Engineer
MTS Systems Corp
Ph: 919.677.2507
Fax: 919.677.2480
1001 Sheldon Drive 
Cary, NC 27513 


-Original Message-
From: Doug McKean [mailto:dmck...@corp.auspex.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 5:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group
Subject: Re: EMI sniffer goggles



Okay, here's what I'd like to have ... 

Translucent material which is color responsive to emi. 
Similar to the material on the side of batteries which 
responds to voltage levels. 

A pane of translucent material which can be put on the 
end of a stick much like a pane of glass or a pane of 
of it which could be stood from a floor support next 
to the product and show a pattern of emi strengths 
by color.  

Or, a thin sheet of it much like plastic wrap which can 
be placed on a part of a product (such as a surface or 
edge) which would also respond to field strength. 

Or, I could rip off a sheet much like plastic wrap about 
a foot long and place over a pcb and instantly "see" the 
emi patterns produced by the board. 

Near or far field use. 

There'd be 2 versions of the material: one for electric 
fields which would respond with various shades of 
red and another for magnetic fields which would 
respond in various shades of blue. 

- Doug McKean 



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RE: Mexico question

[Alejandro Torrecilla Torregrosa]

Hi Doug,

NOM-001 includes electrical safety requirements and testing methods for type
approval of household electronic apparatus as TVs, remote control,
microwaves,...
NOM-016 includes electrical safety requirements and testing methods for
electronic apparatus for use in office as fax machines, photocopiers,...
NOM-019 includes electrical safety requirements for data processing
equipment as Laptops, notebooks, palmtops,..., their peripherals (printers,
plotters, monitors,...) and equipment used to communicate such devices as
routers, hubs,...

In NOM-001 and NOM-016, the scope includes not only devices connected to AC
Mains, but also conected to other kind of power supply as batteries. The
scope of NOM-019 does not specify whether the devices are connected to the
AC mains or not. In fact, it is not limited to devices connected to AC
mains. Notice also that the standard is based on IEC65 and IEC950 whose
scope is not limited to equipment connected to AC mains. As far as I
understand, any ITE equipment must be NOM certified. The exception is when
the device is going to be sold into another device (as modem cards) in which
case the whole product requires NOM certification.

Hope it helps,

Alejandro

> --
> De:   Massey, Doug C.[SMTP:masse...@ems-t.com]
> Responder a:  Massey, Doug C.
> Enviado el:   martes 7 de agosto de 2001 23:20
> Para: IEEE - PSTC FORUM (E-mail)
> Asunto:   Mexico question
> 
> 
> Hello folks -
> 
> Can anyone tell me if an ITE device that does not connect to AC Mains must
> be NOM certified in order to market the device in Mexico?
> 
> One internet link says all ITE, another says AC Mains connected equipment
> -
> I'm confused. Does anyone have a link to or a list of regulated products?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Doug Massey
> Safety Approvals Engineer
> LXE, Inc.
> Ph.   (770) 447-4224 x3607
> FAX (770) 447-6928
> Visit our web home at http://www.lxe.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
> Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list.
> 
> Visit our web site at:  http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/
> 
> To cancel your subscription, send mail to:
>  majord...@ieee.org
> with the single line:
>  unsubscribe emc-pstc
> 
> For help, send mail to the list administrators:
>  Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org
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> 
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> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
> http://www.rcic.com/  click on "Virtual Conference Hall,"
> 
<>

RE: GSM IN Taiwan

[Anderson Cheng(TPE)]

Mike,

My understanding is that the designating authority for GSM phones is the
Directorate General of Telecommunications (DGT).
The only one accredited laboratory for the interoperability testing for GSM
phones is the ChungHwa.
Tel: +886-2-2326-2463
Fax: +886-2-2707-9668
Email: linho...@ms.chttl.com.tw

Regards,
Anderson

-Original Message-
From: Mike Cantwell [mailto:michael.cantw...@flextronics.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 2:33 AM
To: emc-pstc (E-mail)
Subject: GSM IN Taiwan

I have two questions and would appreciate any direction:

1) Does anyone know who the Taiwan authority is for GSM phones?

2) Does anyone know of a laboratory that tests GSM phones to their
functional requirements (not EMC and not RF requirements)?


Thanks,

Mike Cantwell, PE, NCE
Flextronics Compliance Laboratories
762 Park Ave.
Youngsville, NC 27596
Tel: (919) 554-0901
Fax: (919) 556-2043
Cell: (919) 815-4067


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Re: ESD - time between successive discharges

[John Woodgate]

<95fbd8b0830ed511b7720002a51363f1319...@exw-ks.ks.lsil.com>, Ehler, Kyle
 inimitably wrote:
>
>No John, I'm not referring to you. (or anyone else in particular)  I dont 
>know you well enough -yet.. 
>I'm just spaking on how we do the job of ensuring that our products meet 
> the 
>standards. 

I only pick up typos when they are amusing (like, 'We then repeated the
tests for completemess.'), or could create confusion.
>
>We take this work very seriously and I agree with you that the CE mark is 
>not a quality mark, 

Good; my comment was directed to those who might think it is.

I agree with most of the rest of your comments.
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co..uk 
This message and its contents are not confidential, privileged or protected 
by law. Access is only authorised by the intended recipient - this means YOU! 
The contents may be disclosed to, or used by, anyone and stored or copied in
any medium. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender 
yesterday at the latest.

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Re: EMI sniffer goggles

[Wan Juang Foo]

I suppose that can be achieve with some class of liquid crystals embedded
in a polymer medium.  The problem is that is the representation in the near
field or just a plane (cross section).

I will prefer a none intrusive gas or vapour that will 'glow' at different
field intensity and colour, very much like a corona or  aurora.  :-)  Now
we can have a glass tank 'gas chamber' within an anechoic chamber to
evaluate the field strengths in 3D.  Then the argument will be that there
will be different gasses for different frequent frequency ranges ;-)  Just
think about the possible effect on the environment.

Dreams comes true when we want them to...


Tim Foo,
(or just call me 'Tim')
   E-mail:  f...@np.edu.sg
ECE, School of Engineering,
http://www.np.edu.sg/ece/  Tel: + 65 460 6143
Ngee Ann Polytechnic,  Fax: + 65 467 1730
535 Clementi Road,
Singapore 599489





"Doug McKean"   


m> cc: (bcc: Wan Juang 
Foo/ece/staff/npnet) 
Sent by:   Subject: Re: EMI sniffer 
goggles 
owner-emc-pstc@majordom 

o.ieee.org  





08/08/01 05:18 AM   

Please respond to "Doug 

McKean" 










Okay, here's what I'd like to have ...

Translucent material which is color responsive to emi.
Similar to the material on the side of batteries which
responds to voltage levels.

A pane of translucent material which can be put on the
end of a stick much like a pane of glass or a pane of
of it which could be stood from a floor support next
to the product and show a pattern of emi strengths
by color.

Or, a thin sheet of it much like plastic wrap which can
be placed on a part of a product (such as a surface or
edge) which would also respond to field strength.









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