Russian Radio Certification
I would like to hear from anyone who has obtained Russian certification for short range (low power) radio devices. How did you do it? Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Surge - injection point on screened cable
The 20m screened cable test is meant to test for the effects of a high surge current being carried on the shield between two, grounded EUT's. The intent of the standard is to test products in a configuration in which they would be installed, so unless the detectors are installed with 20m of cable between each one, I'd argue that your test lab is nuts In order to perform the test for screened cables, the item at each end of the shielded cable needs to be grounded so that you can insert a surge generator in such a way as to cause a surge current to flow on the surface of the cable. Don't know enough about your product to comment of the practicality fo such a test. Hope it's helpful... Mike Hopkins Thermo KeyTek -Original Message- From: am...@westin-emission.no [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:48 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Surge - injection point on screened cable According to IEC/EN 61000-4-5, the surge pulse shall be injected onto a screened cable 20 meters from the DUT. We have a fire alarm system with 20 detectors connected on the same screened cable, 1.5 meters between each detector. We have been told from the local test lab that we have to add a 20m cable between each detector in order to surge test each detector. I'm sure our local cable distributor like that idea ... , but do we really have to do this ? Why is this 20 meters cable needed ? Is it to induce the surge pulse from the screen into the cable lines? The 20 detectors make a total cable distance of 30 meters and the screen is continuous. Is it possible to insert a pulse in the beginning of the cable and test all detectors simultaneous ? Regards Amund --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Construction Product Directive
Hello, The construction product directive is one of the most recent directives affecting fire detection devices. Currently if you have a smoke detector you would like to sell in the EU then you have to go through all the local national agencies (ANPI, VdS LPCB etc) in Europe to obtain approvals. As of next March (when the first standard get published in the OJ for the CPD ) the manufacturer can now go to any one of those agencies ( provided they have been listed as a certification body under the new scheme) and be approved across the EU. Hooray say I! Chop tens of thousands of Euros off my testing bill! Unfortunately it is not all as it seems! The CPD writers in their wisdom have a provision in the directive that not only does the notified body have to do type testing and regular auditing but they must also certify the quality plan!. The certified bodies take this to mean that they must do something like an ISO9000 certification and audit plan. I'm wondering why the directive was written this way. If one already has a quality plan in place that is registered, why do we have to do it again? It seems to be counterproductive to say on one hand that a particular agency is qualified to assess quality plans and then have a directive that says otherwise. This also has the effect that if I choose one certification body to test something then I must choose them again and again or else face re evaluation of my quality plan by yet another certification body. What a convenient clause for non competition amongst the certification bodies! Is there anyone out there that may have contributed to the Construction Product Directive that might shed some light on this subject? Am I missing something? Was that the intent of the directive or perhaps this wasn't foreseen? Grumbling complete Best Regards, Kevin Harris Manager, Approvals and CAD Services Digital Security Controls 3301 Langstaff Road Concord, Ontario CANADA L4K 4L2 Tel: +1 905 760 3000 Ext. 2378 Fax +1 905 760 3020 Email: kevinharr...@dsc.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Shield Room Lighting
I read in !emc-pstc that Gary McInturff Gary.McInturff@worldwidepackets .com wrote (in 917063bab0ddb043af5faa73c7a835d40ac...@windlord.wwp.com ) about 'Shield Room Lighting' on Thu, 31 Oct 2002: I have a current problem with some special ballasts and expensive spectral output fluorescents that require me to turn them off if I want to see anything below 100 Mhz, and pretty much anything up to 200 Mhz. Its all nasty broadband. Very expensive to fix, Throw away the electronic ballasts and go back to good old chokes. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Shield Room Lighting
I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Ed ed.pr...@cubic.com wrote (in b78135310217d511907c0090273f5190d0b...@curly.ds.cubic.com) about 'Shield Room Lighting' on Thu, 31 Oct 2002: BTW, my facilities guys wanted me to use some exotic industrial grade bulbs. IIRC, they were rated at 135 V for 100 W (so I suppose they were NOT 100 W bulbs at 120 V g). No, they are nearly constant-current devices, so the current would still be 740 mA at 120 V, i.e. 88.888. W. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Shield Room Lighting
I read in !emc-pstc that POWELL, DOUG doug.pow...@aei.com wrote (in B44016F6854CD511A6470003476B45E438267D@FTCEXC01) about 'Shield Room Lighting' on Thu, 31 Oct 2002: Coupled with this, tungsten experiences a fairly high in-rush current owing to it's very dynamic negative temperature coefficient. Positive, not negative. And it's not all that 'dynamic'. It's the very high 'hot' temperature that makes the change in resistance very large. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment/off topic
I read in !emc-pstc that Grasso, Charles charles.gra...@echostar.com wrote (in 70B321FEC75C704A846DEE3D856ACB1108418470@riv- exch2.echostar.com) about 'CE marking/testing of military equipment/off topic' on Thu, 31 Oct 2002: Hmm conferred by the Pope? I thought be generated the CofE in direct conflict to the Catholic Church... That was later, due to the Pope not granting him a divorce from Catherine of Aragon (whom he should never have been forced to marry in the first place). He was given the title of 'Defender of the Faith' because he wrote a book attacking the Protestant, Luther. The Pope was stupid to antagonize Henry; the Papacy was already under severe attack for corruption and extortion throughout Europe. The C of E in Henry's reign was hardly different in ritual from the Roman Church. Henry burned several Protestants for heresy. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment
Hi Chris, you have opened a number of important issues and seem to have illustrated the chasm that existed between what safety engineers do and what people 'think' safety engineers do. Please forgive me answering it in the following manner -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Chris Maxwell Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 9:45 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment Again, I think common sense should rule on this one. I'm no military expert; but I did work in military communications for four years (yawn). I have seen a little bit of how DoD standards work. I spent 20 years in RD - 10 was in Defense using Mil Std's and Def Std's . We would use IEC std's where they existed and wholly applicable and we extracted sections as appropriate. Say you are making a missle to launch from a ship. Go ahead, look through all of the civilian directives and standards that apply to CE marking. NO - I would EXPECT a safety engineer to know what was appropriate to which elements of the system - after drawing up a risk assessment matrix. What are the chances that you will find a standard for ship-based missles?? Has the IEC ever convened a technical commitee or working group to develop a safety standard for ship-based missles? NO - NONE - BUT EN60950 and others provide good incite into Electrical Safety, Accessibility , Thermal issues, INTERLOCKS, etc and they provide a standard test methodology. All are required for a quality system and design validation plan. How about your average NRTL...Go ahead, give them a call. Your end of the conversation would go something like: Hi, TUV? I've got this 20 foot long missle that carries two tons of explosives. It also has about six tons of solid rocket fuel, and a pointy nose .. No, I'm not threatening you because of my last invoice. I want a price quote for a safety test.. Do you think that you would get a quote? (I don't have a problem with TUV...I just used their acronym because it is recognizable.) I agree - I would not expect them to be able to 'slice' and 'dice' the product and standards because: a- it is not within their regular services b- it is likely to be in breach of their quality system c- it would include more caveats than substance. Most military equipment is, by nature, unique and one of a kind. You just can't expect an engineer to safety test a toaster today and a ship-based missle tomorrow. I disagree - I would expect any good safety engineer to make a valuable contribution within a few hours of seeing the product. EXAMPLES. I remember a (UK) incident of a sailor being vaporized by a missile efflux - WARNINGS - and TRAINING are common issues and within the scope of all product safety engineers. Another issue - S.S. Forrester (sp?) 'Illuminated' an aircraft with its radar - the aircraft fired a missile down the flight deck and mayhem ensured with a tragic loss of life. Forget the EMC aspects - any Safety Engineer being aware of the EMC risk would have insisted on Weight-Off-Wheel-Interlocks to arm the weapons. That is not 'rocket science'. Safety is not a mystery - it is common sense. B - u - t it requires 'looking' with a different pair of eyes. THAT is the secret and is what makes the difference between a good safety engineer and an engineering doing a safety review because he was told to! GOLDEN-RULE: Reviewing and testing to 'PASS' a safety test will usually result in a non-compliant product. If you want the resultant product to be compliance - and 'safe' then Review and Test to 'MAKE' the product FAIL the safety test. If you cannot fail the equipment: chances are it will be compliant. Please review some of the free downloadables on www.test4safety.com (eLearning) these explain in detail. If there is no CE marking directive or standard that deals with your piece of equipment on a technical basis; then how could you expect a CE mark on your equipment to show any level of consumer protection? I did not suggest CE Marking the product If the equipment is specialized (especially military); then you need to deal with safety from the ground up. I usually start top down and then work bottom up. Two passes are essential. You are probably better off dealing with the basics of safety starting with risk based analysis. But that is how the safety engineer will start. - We do not just dive into standards because they are there: at least, to good ones don't:^ } .. SNIP Best regards Gregg attachment: winmail.dat
Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment/off topic
I read in !emc-pstc that Ted Rook t...@crestaudio.com wrote (in sdc10618@peavey.com) about 'CE marking/testing of military equipment/off topic' on Thu, 31 Oct 2002: and until daddy died, Emperor of India. AFAIK, India and Pakistan became independent in 1948 and the King died in 1952. If sufficiently motivated, I might be able to find coins of the period showing when 'IND IMP' was dropped from the inscription on the obverse. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Surge - injection point on screened cable
I read in !emc-pstc that richwo...@tycoint.com wrote (in 846BF526A205F8 4BA2B6045BBF7E9A6A04675914@flbocexu05) about 'Surge - injection point on screened cable' on Thu, 31 Oct 2002: This is a good example of an inarticulate clause in a standard. One sentence in clause 7.5 reads Normally, the maximum length of the specified shielded cable shall be used. But the following sentence reads With respect to the frequency spectrum of the surge 20 m length of the specified shielded cable shall be used in non-inductively bundled configuration for physical reasons. Duh! What they heck are they trying to say in that last sentence? Are we expected to use the maximum length cable specified for the application but no longer than 20 m? That's seems to be what is being said in a convoluted way. I think that is indeed what is meant. If the maximum possible length is 1000 m, you still only need to test with 20 m. If the maximum length is less than 20 m, you use the maximum length. The poor English of the 61000-4 series has to be the responsibility of the Anglophone members of the SC77B working groups. They have, it seems, allowed the German (mostly) experts to write the texts and have not been sufficiently motivated to clarify the language. Some times the French text is clearer, but in this case it is not, and does not include the phrase 'for physical reasons'. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
ETSI Folks - EN300 019-1-2 section 5.5 question
Under the mechanical conditions row b) with and acceleration spectral density of 3.3 the frequency range is 200 to 2000 Hz. Is the upper end a good number or a typo - that's way up above any spectral response I would expect an in sort of transportation methodology - except maybe a rocket. Gary --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Looking for Surge Generator
I am not sure if they are still in business, but here is a company that we once rented this type of equipment from. They also would sell used equipment. Transient Specialists Inc. 110 Rugeley Rd Western Springs, IL 60558 T: 708.246.3297 F: 708.482.3972 Equipment can also be purchased from Hafely Trench and Shaffner. Bryan Cole Director of Engineering Product Safety Officer Emerson Network Power - Control Concepts Binghamton, New York 13902 Phone: 607.724.1352 extension 238 Fax: 607.724.0153 E-mail: bryan.c...@control-concepts.com www.Liebert.com www.Control-Concepts.com www.Edcosurge.com -Original Message- From: Scott Douglas [mailto:dougl...@naradnetworks.com] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:39 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Looking for Surge Generator Hello Fellow List Persons, We are in the market for surge test equipment. We need to test to IEEE C62.41 waveforms. The two waveforms needed are: 6 kV, 1.2/50 ms open circuit, 3 kA, 8/20 ms short circuit Combination Wave 100 kHz Ring Wave My first preference is for a Keytek EMCPro surge generator as that is what I am familiar with. Prefer something late model and in good to excellent condition at a bargain price. If anyone knows of something suitable and available, please contact me off list. Thank you. Scott Douglas Senior Compliance Engineer Narad Networks 515 Groton Road Westford, MA 01886 phone: 978 589-1869 dougl...@naradnetworks.com www.naradnetworks.com http://www.naradnetworks.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: CCC mark testlab certification
I do not have any experience with obtaining CCC approvals, but I have seen some information on companies that claim to be able to accomplish this. The one with the most information is www.esimcom.com Best of luck. Bryan Cole Director of Engineering Product Safety Officer Emerson Network Power - Control Concepts Binghamton, New York 13902 Phone: 607.724.1352 extension 238 Fax: 607.724.0153 E-mail: bryan.c...@control-concepts.com www.Liebert.com www.Control-Concepts.com www.Edcosurge.com -Original Message- From: Summers, Chet [mailto:csumm...@pelco.com] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:02 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: CCC mark testlab cetification Hello Listmembers. I am researching the procedures needed to obtain the CCC mark for shipment of CCTV equipment into China and need some guidance from those experienced in the process. First, which Chinese document explicitly mandates type testing within China? I have read from various sourches that any testing not performed within the country is completely unacceptable. Where can I review the Chinese Government's official stand on type testing, for EMC and product safety? Lastly, I am looking for procedures necessary for a Regulatory Compliance Lab to become an accepted agent within China. Any experiences with this process that you are willing to share will be appreciated. Chet Summers Compliance Engineer Pelco tel 1-559-292-1981 X2822 fax 1-559-294-2697 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment
I read in !emc-pstc that gr...@test4safety.com wrote (in 004201c281a4$b 1f49110$7100a8c0@MENHADEN) about 'CE marking/testing of military equipment' on Fri, 1 Nov 2002: The rule of thumb Should be CE Marking is to protect public safety - No, it very definitely is NOT! CE marking is ONLY to show customs officers and regulatory authorities that the product is allowed to cross national borders and be offered for sale. It is NOT a quality mark or anything else. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment
I read in !emc-pstc that Speakman, Jim jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com wrote (in 97cf276bd8c6d4119c4b00508bb18de70376f...@ntscxch1.int.rdel.co .uk) about 'CE marking/testing of military equipment' on Fri, 1 Nov 2002: To add to this discussion, I would point out to you the proposals of the Working Group Low Voltage Directive (LDV Update.2 Working Document), which proposes, within Section 7(2), Quote: ANNEX II EQUIPMENT AND PHENOMENA OUTSIDE TH SCOPE OF THE DIRECTIVE: This directive shall not apply to the following equipment: (a) Electrical equipment specially designed for military or police purposes. (b).Unquote. If it is assumed that that proposal is accepted, then that will effectively eliminate any requirement to CE Mark military equipment. No, of course not, because the EMC Directive still applies and that requires CE marking. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment
I read in !emc-pstc that Luke Turnbull luke.turnb...@trw.com wrote (in sdc0e842@mail2-shrluk.trw.com) about 'CE marking/testing of military equipment' on Thu, 31 Oct 2002: I believe that the Germans insist on military equipment being CE marked. Well, anything can be CE marked, and usually is. (;-) Article 10.2 of the EMC Directive applies, and CE marking is quite justified, if rather fatuous. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment
I read in !emc-pstc that Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote (in oleokfnbajjejfkplbbmaeljceaa.g.grem...@cetest.nl) about 'CE marking/testing of military equipment' on Thu, 31 Oct 2002: This text is British law,en the Uk is only a half member of the EC. This law is is not backed up by the EMC directive European Text. It is therefore contradictory to the EC membership requirements and theoretically illegal. That, of course, is xenophobic untruth. But who will complain, as it is not creating trade barriers, and is limited to pure military equipment. As always, the British stand out in Europe, gaining from the profits, and not accepting the obligations. So is that. Political insults should be sent to a political newsgroup, if not to dev/null. As Margaret Thatcher already said: Why else did God create the Channel ? Since there are no standards notified by the Commission whose scopes cover military equipment, such equipment falls under Article 10.2 of the Directive. In Britain, the Defence Research Agency is a Notified Body, as is the Radiocommuncations Agency. Similar government-associated bodies are Notified Bodies in other countries. British military equipment has to meet applicable military EMC requirements and is extensively tested to ensure that it does so. Hence the provisions of the EMC Directive ARE complied with. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment
I agree with the common sense approach. Say you make heavy duty reinforced shoes, which you sell to both the Army and the public. For the military market no CE directive applies. For the civilian market they fall under the Personal Protective Equipment Directive and need to be marked accordingly. Do you just CE mark those Shoes intended for civilian sale and leave the Military ones blank ? Or to save the pain of controlling two stock numbers and having segregated warehouse and production lines, CE mark all the products you make ? The same reasoning could be applied to a manufacture of ruggerdised PCs which could have dual use in both the Civilian and Military sectors. It is easier in the long run to design the product for both markets. On the other hand most military electronics need to meet far higher EMC performance criteria than any EU EMC standard requires. When your 20 foot long pointy missile gets hit by a high power radar array, performance criteria B, momentary loss of function but self recovers, is not quite good enough. Same thing for emissions, you do not want your nice new missiles box of electronic tricks radiating so much that it screws up all other systems in the vicinity and tells anyone with a simple hand radio that there is an missile. Basically with military equipment, it is the case of what standards does the customer require you to meet. Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014 -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: 01 November 2002 14:45 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment Again, I think common sense should rule on this one. I'm no military expert; but I did work in military communications for four years (yawn). I have seen a little bit of how DoD standards work. Say you are making a missle to launch from a ship. Go ahead, look through all of the civilian directives and standards that apply to CE marking. What are the chances that you will find a standard for ship-based missles?? Has the IEC ever convened a technical commitee or working group to develop a safety standard for ship-based missles? How about your average NRTL...Go ahead, give them a call. Your end of the conversation would go something like: Hi, TUV? I've got this 20 foot long missle that carries two tons of explosives. It also has about six tons of solid rocket fuel, and a pointy nose .. No, I'm not threatening you because of my last invoice. I want a price quote for a safety test.. Do you think that you would get a quote? (I don't have a problem with TUV...I just used their acronym because it is recognizable.) Most military equipment is, by nature, unique and one of a kind. You just can't expect an engineer to safety test a toaster today and a ship-based missle tomorrow. If there is no CE marking directive or standard that deals with your piece of equipment on a technical basis; then how could you expect a CE mark on your equipment to show any level of consumer protection? If the equipment is specialized (especially military); then you need to deal with safety from the ground up. You are probably better off dealing with the basics of safety starting with risk based analysis. You may also find some defense department standards that apply. You can't rely on CE marking standards; unless you can find one that deals with the specific aspects of your product. If there was no directive or standard to apply; then putting on a CE mark would simply be for show and give a false sense of security. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: John Allen [mailto:ja014d7...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:18 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: Nick Williams Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Folks Sorry the first message today was incomplete - here is the full version: I fully support Nick's observations. In respect of the comments made by Gert, I would like to point out that the UK appears to be not the only Member country that has taken advantage of Article 223 , and those countries are Full members - not half-members - so those comments are unjustiable! Even more to the point, it should be remembered (as I pointed out in my earlier message) that many newer directives include specific exclusions for equipment for military and state security applications - so everyone else now appears to accept and agree that the UK stance and legislation on the EMC Directive is entirely justifiable! Regards John Allen Technical Consultant Electromagnetics, Safety and Reliability Group ERA Technology Ltd Cleeve Rd Leatherhead
Re: EN61000-3-3 -3-11 off topic a bit!
I read in !emc-pstc that Spencer, David H david.spen...@usa.xerox.com wrote (in 052106A55179D611B34300096BB02E3F8B99@USAMCMS4) about 'EN61000-3-3 -3-11 off topic a bit!' on Thu, 31 Oct 2002: I've just looked at all the draft copies of this standard(that I have), and the older version TR IEC 1000-3-5. Still only says 75amps. Again no per phase. Here is the [paraphrased] response from the Convener of the WG concerned: Quote (sort of) It's not necessary to include 'per phase' if 'rated current' is specified, because 'rated current ' is always 'per phase'. If you add the currents in all three phases *correctly*, you get zero, so that is not a sensible operation. Endquote I would have to say if TC77A wanted it to say 75A per phase, it would be in there. Well, it's SC77A, but I agree that it would have been sensible to closely align the text of IEC 61000-3-11 with that of IEC 61000-3-3, even if it's not strictly necessary when 'rated' is included. The point will be borne in mind for the next amendment or edition. Incidentally, I don't see that this is 'off topic' at all. Problems of interpretation or application of standards are important, and someone has to actually DO something to bring them to the notice of the committees concerned. I, and other people here, are in a position to do that more easily than most people can. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Circuit pack ESD drain
I believe you would not be far off to take the IEC waveform as the worst case. The amount of charge is pretty well approximated by the IEC ESD simulator. The discharge waveform shape depends on the impedance of the source - the person holding it, and the ESD trace on the circuit pack (and its parasitics) -- and the target, which in the case of a backplane is essentially zero, with some inductive effects due to the connector termination on the backplane. There is sufficient capacitance to other traces and planes AFTER the backplane connector to make the discharge otherwise quite rapid. I would expect some effects due to trace and plane resonances; testing I did on one former employer's backplane showed pronounced resonances on power distribution, for example. However this will vary among cards in different slots. Personally, I do not like circuit card ESD traces -- why let ESD onto the backplane to begin with, when you have a nice, large metal object to dump it into in the chassis and card cage? There's good coupling from the trace to each side, and I've documented ESD effects on nearby cards. Cortland --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment
Again, I think common sense should rule on this one. I'm no military expert; but I did work in military communications for four years (yawn). I have seen a little bit of how DoD standards work. Say you are making a missle to launch from a ship. Go ahead, look through all of the civilian directives and standards that apply to CE marking. What are the chances that you will find a standard for ship-based missles?? Has the IEC ever convened a technical commitee or working group to develop a safety standard for ship-based missles? How about your average NRTL...Go ahead, give them a call. Your end of the conversation would go something like: Hi, TUV? I've got this 20 foot long missle that carries two tons of explosives. It also has about six tons of solid rocket fuel, and a pointy nose .. No, I'm not threatening you because of my last invoice. I want a price quote for a safety test.. Do you think that you would get a quote? (I don't have a problem with TUV...I just used their acronym because it is recognizable.) Most military equipment is, by nature, unique and one of a kind. You just can't expect an engineer to safety test a toaster today and a ship-based missle tomorrow. If there is no CE marking directive or standard that deals with your piece of equipment on a technical basis; then how could you expect a CE mark on your equipment to show any level of consumer protection? If the equipment is specialized (especially military); then you need to deal with safety from the ground up. You are probably better off dealing with the basics of safety starting with risk based analysis. You may also find some defense department standards that apply. You can't rely on CE marking standards; unless you can find one that deals with the specific aspects of your product. If there was no directive or standard to apply; then putting on a CE mark would simply be for show and give a false sense of security. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: John Allen [mailto:ja014d7...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:18 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: Nick Williams Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Folks Sorry the first message today was incomplete - here is the full version: I fully support Nick's observations. In respect of the comments made by Gert, I would like to point out that the UK appears to be not the only Member country that has taken advantage of Article 223 , and those countries are Full members - not half-members - so those comments are unjustiable! Even more to the point, it should be remembered (as I pointed out in my earlier message) that many newer directives include specific exclusions for equipment for military and state security applications - so everyone else now appears to accept and agree that the UK stance and legislation on the EMC Directive is entirely justifiable! Regards John Allen Technical Consultant Electromagnetics, Safety and Reliability Group ERA Technology Ltd Cleeve Rd Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA Tel: +44 (0) 1372-367025 (Direct) +44 (0) 1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44 (0) 1372-367102 (Fax) (but sent from my home email address!) - Original Message - From: Nick Williams nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:30 PM Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment The UK's position is consistent with the provisions of, inter alia, article 223 of the Treaty of Rome and is therefore entirely legal. I shall not dignify the remaining comments by replying to them. They are unworthy of a forum such as this. Regards Nick. At 07:23 +0100 31/10/02, Gert Gremmen wrote: Hi Patrick, This text is British law,en the Uk is only a half member of the EC. This law is is not backed up by the EMC directive European Text. It is therefore contradictory to the EC membership requirements and theoretically illegal. But who will complain, as it is not creating trade barriers, and is limited to pure military equipment. As always, the British stand out in Europe, gaining from the profits, and not accepting the obligations. As Margaret Thatcher already said: Why else did God create the Channel ? Regards, Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Rotterdam, The Netherlands http://www.ce-test.nl -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of plaw...@west.net Sent: woensdag 30 oktober 2002 23:50 To: EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Gert: I made the comment about the
RE: equipment class identification under RTTE directive
Hi, Go to http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/rtte/listeq.htm for a complete listing of equipment class identifiers Regards Kevin -Original Message- From: Van, Vi (Vi) [mailto:v...@lucent.com] Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 5:27 AM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: equipment class identification under RTTE directive [fadr] Importance: High Hi, Does anyone know what equipment class identification under RTTE directive is for a UMTS Base Station? Regards Vi --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Official Languages of Countries
Stephen, Best is if you have the distributor at the country of destimation do the translations. You will save lots of money and headaches!! This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender. PETER S. MERGUERIAN Technical Director I.T.L. (Product Testing) Ltd. 26 Hacharoshet St., POB 211 Or Yehuda 60251, Israel Tel: + 972-(0)3-5339022 Fax: + 972-(0)3-5339019 Mobile: + 972-(0)54-838175 http://www.itl.co.il http://www.itl.co.il/ http://www.i-spec.com http://www.i-spec.com/ -Original Message- From: Stephen Irving [mailto:sirv...@lutron.com] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:10 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Official Languages of Countries Hello everyone. My name is Steve Irving, and I am new to this forum. Does anyone know where to find a reliable, up-to-date list of the official languages of each country? This list would be useful to people selling products internationally, as many standards require instructions in the official language of each country of sale. Thanks for your help, Steve Stephen R. Irving Project Electrical Engineer Lutron Electronics, Co. Inc. +1 (610) 282 - 6468 +1 (610) 282 - 7324 [Fax]
RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment
Except when members of the public have access to the equipment - if there is no compliance to the CE Marking directives then there are likely to be serious liability issues - we need to see the case law but I would hope that successful prosecutions would be brought against any manufacturer that placed lives at risk by avoiding due diligence. Examples I usually give as Equipment under repair and recalibration - in training environments. Anyone visiting the UK Rapier training facilities would remember pieces of the military working in a classroom environment. Try it is not for sale but there is access to non-military and non-technical staff. The rule of thumb Should be CE Marking is to protect public safety - use of the procedures can reduce Corporate Liability - avoidance of the procedures will expose Corporations (and the 'Responsible' individuals) to (personal) liability. Gregg Gregg Kervill DipIM, MIMgt, MIEEE VP Engineering Test4Safety.com Inc PO Box 310, Reedville, VA 22539. USA Phone ( 804) 453-3141 Fax(804) 453-9039 http://www.test4safety.com/ -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Speakman, Jim Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 3:18 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment To add to this discussion, I would point out to you the proposals of the Working Group Low Voltage Directive (LDV Update.2 Working Document), which proposes, within Section 7(2), Quote: ANNEX II EQUIPMENT AND PHENOMENA OUTSIDE TH SCOPE OF THE DIRECTIVE: This directive shall not apply to the following equipment: (a) Electrical equipment specially designed for military or police purposes. (b).Unquote. If it is assumed that that proposal is accepted, then that will effectively eliminate any requirement to CE Mark military equipment. Regards __ Jim Speakman (Design Safety Representative (Southern Sites)) Thales Defence Ltd Thales Sensors Manor Royal Crawley West Sussex RH10 9PZ * Tel:+44(0)1293 644911 * Mob:+44(0)7968 529439 * Fax : +44(0)1293 644194 *e-mail jim.speak...@uk.thalesgroup.com __ This e-mail contains confidential information for the addressee only. If a transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, please notify us on +44(0)1293 644911 and delete it and all copies from your system. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this communication if received in error. -Original Message- From: John Allen [mailto:ja014d7...@blueyonder.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:18 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Cc: Nick Williams Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Folks Sorry the first message today was incomplete - here is the full version: I fully support Nick's observations. In respect of the comments made by Gert, I would like to point out that the UK appears to be not the only Member country that has taken advantage of Article 223 , and those countries are Full members - not half-members - so those comments are unjustiable! Even more to the point, it should be remembered (as I pointed out in my earlier message) that many newer directives include specific exclusions for equipment for military and state security applications - so everyone else now appears to accept and agree that the UK stance and legislation on the EMC Directive is entirely justifiable! Regards John Allen Technical Consultant Electromagnetics, Safety and Reliability Group ERA Technology Ltd Cleeve Rd Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA Tel: +44 (0) 1372-367025 (Direct) +44 (0) 1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44 (0) 1372-367102 (Fax) (but sent from my home email address!) - Original Message - From: Nick Williams nick.willi...@conformance.co.uk To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:30 PM Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment The UK's position is consistent with the provisions of, inter alia, article 223 of the Treaty of Rome and is therefore entirely legal. I shall not dignify the remaining comments by replying to them. They are unworthy of a forum such as this. Regards Nick. At 07:23 +0100 31/10/02, Gert Gremmen wrote: Hi Patrick, This text is British law,en the Uk is only a half member of the EC. This law is is not backed up by the EMC directive European Text. It is therefore contradictory to the EC membership requirements and theoretically illegal. But who will complain, as it is not creating trade barriers, and is limited to pure military equipment. As always, the British stand out in Europe, gaining from the profits, and not accepting the obligations. As Margaret Thatcher already said: Why else did God create the Channel ? Regards, Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Rotterdam, The Netherlands http://www.ce-test.nl -Original Message- From:
RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment
It's often overlooked that before the second world war, baseball was very popular in the UK with games involving professional players attracting tens of thousands of spectators. Ever wondered why Derby County Football Club's ground is called The Baseball Ground? No I thought not Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com -Original Message- From: david.gra...@realcompliance.com [SMTP:david.gra...@realcompliance.com] Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 9:19 AM To: EMC pstc Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment A good point John, And many facts - including that derivatives of baseball (softball, rounders) are played recreationally in Europe - should remind us that we share a common heritage. As such our rivalry is (and should remain) more akin to that of siblings than that of adversaries. So, the REAL real question is: when are you going to learn to play 'soccer' competently? Dave Graham, RCC Ltd 37 High Street, Manea March, Cambs, UK PE15 0JD T: 01354 688310 F: 0870 1319036 M: 07764 199768 -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Shinn Sent: 01 November 2002 00:10 To: 'John Allen'; plaw...@west.net; 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment John: You have made some very valid points. The World Series is a North American only game, and of course there is the American Football. Actually, somewhere in the distant past, the game was closer to Rugby and was actually kicked much more often than it is now. Someone figured out that it could be thrown (a pass) with more accuracy and the game has not been the same since. Lists / groups like this, with it's many different cultures, words, and common problems and solutions, have become a a means for us to communicate and understand each other. We see each other as different, can lightly enjoy some of the humor regarding some of these differences, and learn from the exchange. So, the real question is: When are you going to get a baseball team together and start playing for a slot in the World Series? Best regards, John Shinn -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Allen Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:32 PM To: plaw...@west.net; EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Folks Sorry - it's me again.! 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office' (HMSO is NOT the goverment standards group - it is the official government REGULATIONS publiishing site and is just like the Government Printing Office (at least, I think that is what it is called) in Washington etc. Also, I think you will find that many other countries that are not republics (God Forbid that should happen to the UK! - we already almost have President Tony Blair, and that is bad enough!) have odd names for some of their national institutions and organisations. Therefore I think I could make a few derogatory remarks about some US names and traditions - like calling a baseball or American football [??? - the ball is hardly ever kicked by anone's foot!] series, the World Series when the game in question is only played in the USA and a very few other countries) - so let's leave that type of funny remark for another time and place. Regards John Allen Technical Consultant Electromagnetics, Safety and Reliability Group ERA Technology Ltd Cleeve Rd Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA Tel: +44 (0) 1372-367025 (Direct) +44 (0) 1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44 (0) 1372-367102 (Fax) (but sent from my home email address!) - Original Message - From: plaw...@west.net To: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Gert: I made the comment about the UK based on the following information: http://www.emctla.org/Tech%20Notes/technical_guidance_note_33.htm 2) I found the standard referred to at: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19922372_en_1.htm See section 20. PS: I love the Brits - who else would title the government standards group 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office'! On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:48:18 +0100, Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: There is no ground to beieve that military equiment is to be excluded in any country in Europe. This is definitely not the case in the Netherlands. Regards, Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Rotterdam, The Netherlands http://www.ce-test.nl -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of plaw...@west.net
RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment
I do not know, the US Woman's team currently hold the soccer world cup and the Men's team did pretty well in this years World Cup. From memory sometime in the 1930's the Men's US team actually held the World Cup. Andrew Carson - Senior Compliance Engineer, Xyratex, UK Phone: +44 (0)23 9249 6855 Fax: +44 (0)23 9249 6014 -Original Message- From: david.gra...@realcompliance.com [mailto:david.gra...@realcompliance.com] Sent: 01 November 2002 09:19 To: EMC pstc Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment A good point John, And many facts - including that derivatives of baseball (softball, rounders) are played recreationally in Europe - should remind us that we share a common heritage. As such our rivalry is (and should remain) more akin to that of siblings than that of adversaries. So, the REAL real question is: when are you going to learn to play 'soccer' competently? Dave Graham, RCC Ltd 37 High Street, Manea March, Cambs, UK PE15 0JD T: 01354 688310 F: 0870 1319036 M: 07764 199768 -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Shinn Sent: 01 November 2002 00:10 To: 'John Allen'; plaw...@west.net; 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment John: You have made some very valid points. The World Series is a North American only game, and of course there is the American Football. Actually, somewhere in the distant past, the game was closer to Rugby and was actually kicked much more often than it is now. Someone figured out that it could be thrown (a pass) with more accuracy and the game has not been the same since. Lists / groups like this, with it's many different cultures, words, and common problems and solutions, have become a a means for us to communicate and understand each other. We see each other as different, can lightly enjoy some of the humor regarding some of these differences, and learn from the exchange. So, the real question is: When are you going to get a baseball team together and start playing for a slot in the World Series? Best regards, John Shinn -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Allen Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:32 PM To: plaw...@west.net; EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Folks Sorry - it's me again.! 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office' (HMSO is NOT the goverment standards group - it is the official government REGULATIONS publiishing site and is just like the Government Printing Office (at least, I think that is what it is called) in Washington etc. Also, I think you will find that many other countries that are not republics (God Forbid that should happen to the UK! - we already almost have President Tony Blair, and that is bad enough!) have odd names for some of their national institutions and organisations. Therefore I think I could make a few derogatory remarks about some US names and traditions - like calling a baseball or American football [??? - the ball is hardly ever kicked by anone's foot!] series, the World Series when the game in question is only played in the USA and a very few other countries) - so let's leave that type of funny remark for another time and place. Regards John Allen Technical Consultant Electromagnetics, Safety and Reliability Group ERA Technology Ltd Cleeve Rd Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA Tel: +44 (0) 1372-367025 (Direct) +44 (0) 1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44 (0) 1372-367102 (Fax) (but sent from my home email address!) - Original Message - From: plaw...@west.net To: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Gert: I made the comment about the UK based on the following information: http://www.emctla.org/Tech%20Notes/technical_guidance_note_33.htm 2) I found the standard referred to at: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19922372_en_1.htm See section 20. PS: I love the Brits - who else would title the government standards group 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office'! On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:48:18 +0100, Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: There is no ground to beieve that military equiment is to be excluded in any country in Europe. This is definitely not the case in the Netherlands. Regards, Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Rotterdam, The Netherlands http://www.ce-test.nl -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of plaw...@west.net Sent: woensdag 30 oktober 2002 18:49 To: EMC-PSTC Subject: CE marking/testing of military equipment I have a customer asking for CISPR 22 test results on a commercial power supply intended for use in military equipment in Europe. I've heard the UK excludes military equipment from CE marking. Do other countries also exclude military equipment from
RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment
A good point John, And many facts - including that derivatives of baseball (softball, rounders) are played recreationally in Europe - should remind us that we share a common heritage. As such our rivalry is (and should remain) more akin to that of siblings than that of adversaries. So, the REAL real question is: when are you going to learn to play 'soccer' competently? Dave Graham, RCC Ltd 37 High Street, Manea March, Cambs, UK PE15 0JD T: 01354 688310 F: 0870 1319036 M: 07764 199768 -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Shinn Sent: 01 November 2002 00:10 To: 'John Allen'; plaw...@west.net; 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment John: You have made some very valid points. The World Series is a North American only game, and of course there is the American Football. Actually, somewhere in the distant past, the game was closer to Rugby and was actually kicked much more often than it is now. Someone figured out that it could be thrown (a pass) with more accuracy and the game has not been the same since. Lists / groups like this, with it's many different cultures, words, and common problems and solutions, have become a a means for us to communicate and understand each other. We see each other as different, can lightly enjoy some of the humor regarding some of these differences, and learn from the exchange. So, the real question is: When are you going to get a baseball team together and start playing for a slot in the World Series? Best regards, John Shinn -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Allen Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:32 PM To: plaw...@west.net; EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Folks Sorry - it's me again.! 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office' (HMSO is NOT the goverment standards group - it is the official government REGULATIONS publiishing site and is just like the Government Printing Office (at least, I think that is what it is called) in Washington etc. Also, I think you will find that many other countries that are not republics (God Forbid that should happen to the UK! - we already almost have President Tony Blair, and that is bad enough!) have odd names for some of their national institutions and organisations. Therefore I think I could make a few derogatory remarks about some US names and traditions - like calling a baseball or American football [??? - the ball is hardly ever kicked by anone's foot!] series, the World Series when the game in question is only played in the USA and a very few other countries) - so let's leave that type of funny remark for another time and place. Regards John Allen Technical Consultant Electromagnetics, Safety and Reliability Group ERA Technology Ltd Cleeve Rd Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA Tel: +44 (0) 1372-367025 (Direct) +44 (0) 1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44 (0) 1372-367102 (Fax) (but sent from my home email address!) - Original Message - From: plaw...@west.net To: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Gert: I made the comment about the UK based on the following information: http://www.emctla.org/Tech%20Notes/technical_guidance_note_33.htm 2) I found the standard referred to at: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19922372_en_1.htm See section 20. PS: I love the Brits - who else would title the government standards group 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office'! On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:48:18 +0100, Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: There is no ground to beieve that military equiment is to be excluded in any country in Europe. This is definitely not the case in the Netherlands. Regards, Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Rotterdam, The Netherlands http://www.ce-test.nl -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of plaw...@west.net Sent: woensdag 30 oktober 2002 18:49 To: EMC-PSTC Subject: CE marking/testing of military equipment I have a customer asking for CISPR 22 test results on a commercial power supply intended for use in military equipment in Europe. I've heard the UK excludes military equipment from CE marking. Do other countries also exclude military equipment from the EMC Directive? If CISPR standards are not used for European military equipment, would MIL-STD-461 be used? Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators:
RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment
J A Yes, I agree that we should be keeping things on a light-hearted basis, but some of those comments about the UK/England were verging on the genuinely derogatory. Baseball - England/UK in the World Series? Highly unlikely! Most of us over here find baseball (and American football for that matter) considerably more uninteresting and boring (2 mins on satellite TV is as much as as I can bear)than cricket (which I personally like!) and can work up absolutely no enthusiasm for it at all. John A -Original Message- From: John Shinn [mailto:john.sh...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: 01 November 2002 00:10 To: 'John Allen'; plaw...@west.net; 'EMC-PSTC' Subject: RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment John: You have made some very valid points. The World Series is a North American only game, and of course there is the American Football. Actually, somewhere in the distant past, the game was closer to Rugby and was actually kicked much more often than it is now. Someone figured out that it could be thrown (a pass) with more accuracy and the game has not been the same since. Lists / groups like this, with it's many different cultures, words, and common problems and solutions, have become a a means for us to communicate and understand each other. We see each other as different, can lightly enjoy some of the humor regarding some of these differences, and learn from the exchange. So, the real question is: When are you going to get a baseball team together and start playing for a slot in the World Series? Best regards, John Shinn -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Allen Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:32 PM To: plaw...@west.net; EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Folks Sorry - it's me again.! 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office' (HMSO is NOT the goverment standards group - it is the official government REGULATIONS publiishing site and is just like the Government Printing Office (at least, I think that is what it is called) in Washington etc. Also, I think you will find that many other countries that are not republics (God Forbid that should happen to the UK! - we already almost have President Tony Blair, and that is bad enough!) have odd names for some of their national institutions and organisations. Therefore I think I could make a few derogatory remarks about some US names and traditions - like calling a baseball or American football [??? - the ball is hardly ever kicked by anone's foot!] series, the World Series when the game in question is only played in the USA and a very few other countries) - so let's leave that type of funny remark for another time and place. Regards John Allen Technical Consultant Electromagnetics, Safety and Reliability Group ERA Technology Ltd Cleeve Rd Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA Tel: +44 (0) 1372-367025 (Direct) +44 (0) 1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44 (0) 1372-367102 (Fax) (but sent from my home email address!) - Original Message - From: plaw...@west.net To: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Gert: I made the comment about the UK based on the following information: http://www.emctla.org/Tech%20Notes/technical_guidance_note_33.htm 2) I found the standard referred to at: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19922372_en_1.htm See section 20. PS: I love the Brits - who else would title the government standards group 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office'! On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:48:18 +0100, Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: There is no ground to beieve that military equiment is to be excluded in any country in Europe. This is definitely not the case in the Netherlands. Regards, Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Rotterdam, The Netherlands http://www.ce-test.nl -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of plaw...@west.net Sent: woensdag 30 oktober 2002 18:49 To: EMC-PSTC Subject: CE marking/testing of military equipment I have a customer asking for CISPR 22 test results on a commercial power supply intended for use in military equipment in Europe. I've heard the UK excludes military equipment from CE marking. Do other countries also exclude military equipment from the EMC Directive? If CISPR standards are not used for European military equipment, would MIL-STD-461 be used? Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard:
RE: Circuit pack ESD drain
Dave, If you can give me the dimensions we can numerically calculate or analytically estimate the waveform. David Pommerenke -Original Message- From: David Heald [mailto:dhe...@tellium.com] Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:58 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Circuit pack ESD drain All, Does anyone know of a sample waveform or general characteristics for worst case VI on an ESD drain pin when a circuit pack is inserted into an equipment shelf? This is an odd question I know, but my management asked for the info and I really have no idea (and it shouldn't happen anyway ;o) I guess even a typical maximum charge that can be expected to be on a circuit pack would be sufficient information. Thanks in advance! Dave Heald --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Circuit pack ESD drain
Hey Dave, You might try looking at GR-78-CORE. I know it has guidance for ESD requirements on circuit packs and stand-alone assemblies. Later, Paul Hare -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of David Heald Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 5:58 PM To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org' Subject: Circuit pack ESD drain All, Does anyone know of a sample waveform or general characteristics for worst case VI on an ESD drain pin when a circuit pack is inserted into an equipment shelf? This is an odd question I know, but my management asked for the info and I really have no idea (and it shouldn't happen anyway ;o) I guess even a typical maximum charge that can be expected to be on a circuit pack would be sufficient information. Thanks in advance! Dave Heald --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Circuit pack ESD drain
Hi David, In general, I would have to know the geometry of the equipment to answer the question. In general, voltage is not so important as current and it can be in the several tens of amperes. And...current is not so important as di/dt for upset effects on equipment. The result is that low voltage discharges can be worst than high voltage ones. You should not be using ESD drain pins. The connection to the pin can have voltage drops of hundreds of volts/inch and even a small fraction induced into nearby circuits can cause upset. Charge dissipation should happen as the board in inserted (if at all) to the frame, not ever to a pin of the circuit pack. There is no such thing as a chassis ground pin. Everything is tightly coupled. Take a look at: http://emcesd.com/tt2002/tt050102.htm for an example of this. To adequately treat this subject would require a day of typing so this reply is just a general overview. Doug David Heald wrote: All, Does anyone know of a sample waveform or general characteristics for worst case VI on an ESD drain pin when a circuit pack is inserted into an equipment shelf? This is an odd question I know, but my management asked for the info and I really have no idea (and it shouldn't happen anyway ;o) I guess even a typical maximum charge that can be expected to be on a circuit pack would be sufficient information. Thanks in advance! Dave Heald --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list -- --- ___ _ Doug Smith \ / ) P.O. Box 1457 = Los Gatos, CA 95031-1457 _ / \ / \ _ TEL/FAX: 408-356-4186/358-3799 / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 | q-( ) | o |Email: d...@dsmith.org \ _ /]\ _ / Website: http://www.dsmith.org --- --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Official Languages of Countries
The official language of the country is not the same thing that the applications for approvals can be provided in. The BHS Approval Guidebooks tell you what languages (many in English) that the country will accept. Available from BHS in Texas. Warren Birmingham Epsilon-Mu Consultants On Thursday, Oct 31, 2002, at 14:10 US/Pacific, Jacob Schanker wrote: Stephen: Try www.infoplease.com. Or, go directly to http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0855611.html which is what you are looking for. Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E. 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org - Original Message - From: Stephen Irving sirv...@lutron.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:10 PM Subject: Official Languages of Countries Hello everyone. My name is Steve Irving, and I am new to this forum. Does anyone know where to find a reliable, up-to-date list of the official languages of each country? This list would be useful to people selling products internationally, as many standards require instructions in the official language of each country of sale. Thanks for your help, Steve Stephen R. Irving Project Electrical Engineer Lutron Electronics, Co. Inc. +1 (610) 282 - 6468 +1 (610) 282 - 7324 [Fax] --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: CCC mark testlab cetification
Following my previous email below. One of the members of this group asked me a very good question which I didn't put it in detail in my email. That's about acceptance of CB report. For EMC, this is no question about it. In-country testing is a must-go and I thought it's quite clearly expressed in my email below. CCC doesn't accept any EMC reports from any where else apart from their CNCA accredited labs. For safety, they accept CB report. However if the CB report doesn't include China deviations, additional test(s) will be performed in their accredited lab(s). If the CB report includes China deviations, they accept it. Of course, the cost and processing time will be different with and without CB report. Hope this helps. Leslie Leslie Bai leslie_...@yahoo.com wrote: Fred, You raised a good point here by answering Chet's questions. Here is the update of CNCA accreditation. Since CCC was initially anounced to be implemented in May, the whole system was actually not ready at that time even the cost of testing and certification were not defined until late July. BTW - The first US manufacturer who went through CCC factory inspection and certification since CCC was implemented is my customer so I know they were not ready when my customer applied for CCC. In June, CNCA announced TWO (2) CCC certification bodies accredited to issue CCC certification mark and 68 Chinese labs accredited to perform CCC testing covering 19 categories of products regulated under CCC. 9 labs located in different regions of China are accredited for electrical electronics and IT products testing. The complete set (47 volumes) of CCC regulations are available for manufacturer's reference for a couple of US dollars each volume. If I were you, the manufacturer, I would not spend several hundred dollars to buy them from other sources. For Chinese manufacturers, the closest lab will be assigned for CCC testing. For foreign manufacturers, the labs located in Beijing will be assigned for CCC testing. (This seems to loose recently and foreign manufacturer now can name a prefered lab to perform CCC testing if sufficient reasons being raised. One of my customers did this recently as two labs in Beijing have different views on the issue of whether the power adapter provided by other manufacturer shall be included in the certification of their products and we finally achieved a perfect agreement with one of the Certification body for the best interest of this customer, this, I thought, is the value of using a qualified agent). There is no other agency accredited to issue CCC mark other than 2 accredited Chinese agencies both located in Beijing. There is no so-called registered agent to perform CCC certification either issueing CCC mark or perform CCC testing. There is no foreign labs accredited by CNCA to perform CCC testing other than 68 accredited labs in China. All application must be made to 2 accredited CCC certification bodies and tested by one of 68 labs in China, either directly by the manufacturers or through an agent. However, the value of employing an agent, I believe, is to efficiently communicate with both certification body and test lab to facilitate the process, define the testing scope, and trouble-shooting with Chinese Engineers if unpleasant failure occurs. So such agent should have both Estern and Western backgrounds, understand Chinese culture, speak their language, and with sound Compliance Engineering knowledge. Please also note that MII Type approval is different. MII and CNCA are not in the same boat. MII has its own regulations and accredited labs. For foreign manufacturers, MII test lab can assign Engineers to the customer site to perform testing and issue MII accredited report for MII type approval - (BWT: We have done this for our customers before and it's is extremely helpful and benefitial to foreign manuacturers consdiering the transporation cost of big telecom racks shipped to China!, It could be OK if US Western coast ports are running smoothly). Should anyone like to understand more of China approvals, feel free to contact me off-line. Hope this helps. Leslie Fred Borda fbo...@typeapproval.com wrote: Hi Chet, The set of documents published by CNCA, the authority that administers the CCC mark scheme in China, is available in English at: http://www.typeapproval.com/cn/emc.html The document labeled Regulations for CPCS.pdf is the overall regulations guiding the regime. It addresses type testing. While I don't believe it specifically says that testing performed outside China is not accepted, a lot is determined at the implementation level. Testing must be performed at CNCA accredited laboratories. I don't know of any such accredited labs outside China. I know that several US manufacturers had sought to have their own labs accredited at one point, but the last I heard was that these applications have all been in limbo for a very long time. As
RE: CE marking/testing of military equipment
John: You have made some very valid points. The World Series is a North American only game, and of course there is the American Football. Actually, somewhere in the distant past, the game was closer to Rugby and was actually kicked much more often than it is now. Someone figured out that it could be thrown (a pass) with more accuracy and the game has not been the same since. Lists / groups like this, with it's many different cultures, words, and common problems and solutions, have become a a means for us to communicate and understand each other. We see each other as different, can lightly enjoy some of the humor regarding some of these differences, and learn from the exchange. So, the real question is: When are you going to get a baseball team together and start playing for a slot in the World Series? Best regards, John Shinn -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of John Allen Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 2:32 PM To: plaw...@west.net; EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Folks Sorry - it's me again.! 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office' (HMSO is NOT the goverment standards group - it is the official government REGULATIONS publiishing site and is just like the Government Printing Office (at least, I think that is what it is called) in Washington etc. Also, I think you will find that many other countries that are not republics (God Forbid that should happen to the UK! - we already almost have President Tony Blair, and that is bad enough!) have odd names for some of their national institutions and organisations. Therefore I think I could make a few derogatory remarks about some US names and traditions - like calling a baseball or American football [??? - the ball is hardly ever kicked by anone's foot!] series, the World Series when the game in question is only played in the USA and a very few other countries) - so let's leave that type of funny remark for another time and place. Regards John Allen Technical Consultant Electromagnetics, Safety and Reliability Group ERA Technology Ltd Cleeve Rd Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA Tel: +44 (0) 1372-367025 (Direct) +44 (0) 1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44 (0) 1372-367102 (Fax) (but sent from my home email address!) - Original Message - From: plaw...@west.net To: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: CE marking/testing of military equipment Hi Gert: I made the comment about the UK based on the following information: http://www.emctla.org/Tech%20Notes/technical_guidance_note_33.htm 2) I found the standard referred to at: http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1992/Uksi_19922372_en_1.htm See section 20. PS: I love the Brits - who else would title the government standards group 'Her Majesty's Stationery Office'! On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:48:18 +0100, Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: There is no ground to beieve that military equiment is to be excluded in any country in Europe. This is definitely not the case in the Netherlands. Regards, Gert Gremmen ce-test, qualified testing Rotterdam, The Netherlands http://www.ce-test.nl -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of plaw...@west.net Sent: woensdag 30 oktober 2002 18:49 To: EMC-PSTC Subject: CE marking/testing of military equipment I have a customer asking for CISPR 22 test results on a commercial power supply intended for use in military equipment in Europe. I've heard the UK excludes military equipment from CE marking. Do other countries also exclude military equipment from the EMC Directive? If CISPR standards are not used for European military equipment, would MIL-STD-461 be used? Patrick Lawler plaw...@west.net --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Looking for Surge Generator
Hello Fellow List Persons, We are in the market for surge test equipment. We need to test to IEEE C62.41 waveforms. The two waveforms needed are: 6 kV, 1.2/50 ms open circuit, 3 kA, 8/20 ms short circuit Combination Wave 100 kHz Ring Wave My first preference is for a Keytek EMCPro surge generator as that is what I am familiar with. Prefer something late model and in good to excellent condition at a bargain price. If anyone knows of something suitable and available, please contact me off list. Thank you. Scott Douglas Senior Compliance Engineer Narad Networks 515 Groton Road Westford, MA 01886 phone: 978 589-1869 dougl...@naradnetworks.com www.naradnetworks.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on "browse" and then "emc-pstc mailing list"
