Approved 10 Base-T magenetics
Greeetings all, Does anyone know of isolation transformers for LAN or Telecom tht have agency approvals for safety isolation? I am intersted in single dual or quad pacakges that are http://12.9.181.228 ProductFinder/index.cfm?fuseaction=Home.MainCategoryID=1429 10 Base-T performance or better. Regards, -doug Douglas E. Powell Corporate Compliance Dept. Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. Fort Collins, CO 80535 USA ___ This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc.
Re: Q. on Res Bandwith performace traceabiity
I believe Mr. Cuthbert is correct, but that doesn't change the fact that CISPR 16 specifies 6 dB bandwidths. From: drcuthb...@micron.com Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:47:55 -0600 To: ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, cgrassospri...@earthlink.net, emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Q. on Res Bandwith performace traceabiity I think that Spectrum Analyzer IF filters are specified at the 3 dB points. Communication receivers are spec'ed at the 6 dB and 60 dB points. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:48 PM To: Charles Grasso; Emc-Pstc Subject: Re: Q. on Res Bandwith performace traceabiity My understanding is that it is the 6 dB points which are cited as the bandwidth. I'm not up on CISPR 16 but to entirely specify the bandwidth the 60 dB down points are also specified. The slope you get from the 6 dB to the 60 dB points is called the shape factor. From: Charles Grasso cgrassospri...@earthlink.net Reply-To: Charles Grasso cgrassospri...@earthlink.net Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:06:13 -0700 To: Emc-Pstc emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Q. on Res Bandwith performace traceabiity Greetings: Does anyone know if the Resolution Bandwidth filter performance is tracable to a given standard and which standard that might be? I was wondering if the rool-off after the 3dB points is specificed as a standard for ALL analysers. I am assuming that the anaswer is Yes as chaos would reign!! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Hi-Pot testing
Chris, do they really need the gas tubes and MOV's or are these components someone's insurance or empirical engineering? Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:38 PM To: Rich Nute Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Hi-Pot testing Thanks for the response. It's hard to say. I wasn't there for the hipot test. I just saw the aftermath. A little background: The unit under test had a power supply which we designed from off the shelf building blocks. The first building block is a rectifier/doubler, which takes the AC input and rectifies it. The rectifier also has some smarts which kick in a doubler for input voltages under 180VAC. The output of the rectifier is always about 320VDC. This 320VDC is split into two rails of 160VDC each so that 200V, low profile capacitors can be used. Each of these split rails is protected by a 230V gas tube. The 320VDC is then used by high voltage DC/DC converters (purchased modules) which make 5V and 12V. The hipot test burned out the rectifier. My guess is that the gas tubes on the output fired. Since they have such a high instantaneous current draw, the recitifier could be momentarily overloaded. Even the fuse in front of the rectifier (it did blow) could not protect the rectifier from the hard blow characteristic of the gas tubes. We could populate the circuitboard without the gas tubes, assemble the unit, hipot test it and then install the gas tubes. However, to me, this would seem to make the hipot test superfluous. The amount of re-assembly required to re-install the gas tubes would make the initial hipot test a waste of time. There would be all sorts of chances for somebody to drop a screw into the unit, or leave one out. Is there a way that the subassemblies could be hipot tested, then the main assembly could have a low voltage hipot just to check for the ubiquitous dropped screw? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Instruments Group email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [SMTP:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:31 PM To: Chris Maxwell Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Hi-Pot testing Hi Chris: During safety testing at the lab, the unit passes HiPot testing. However, the unit is broken by the testing. Rigorously, the unit passes its type testing because it doesn't become unsafe by the Hipot. However, it isn't functional after the test; and it requires repair. I have two questions: 1. Is the functional failure due to over-voltage of a component? Or 2. Is the functional failure due to the hi-pot leakage current between primary and secondary? If 1, then you should be able to disconnect that component during the test. Or, you could use the solution for 2. If 2, then the problem becomes much more complex. We test the board before it goes into the product using a bed of nails that equalizes the potential on throughout the primary and throughout the secondary. This prevents current through the components, yet tests the isolation between primary and secondary. Of course, such a test does not test the board in the end-product, which is a problem if the enclosure is metal. Without more details of your circuit and the parts which are broken, I cannot give you further advice. Best regards, Rich This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when
Noise ap note
Here's a good National Semiconductor ap note on electrical noise that I ran into again after several years. I'm presently in the process of performing some 1/f and thermal noise measurements. http://www.national.com/search/search.cgi/apnotes?keywords=noise Click on ap note 104 Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
standards about surge protection devices
Hello List, I friend of mine is manufacturing a device for surge protection (for residential, commercial and industrial environments) and he is interested in selling this equipment in the European Market. I'd like to know which european standards (EN's, IEC) are related to this kind of device. Thanks in advance and Best Regards, Muriel This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Product standard for telescope
I read in !emc-pstc that Brewster, Alan alan.brews...@novellus.com wrote (in CF6DCEDA22787446978A697FEB9B20DC045FB304@msxsanjose2.novellus .com) about 'Product standard for telescope' on Thu, 28 Aug 2003: the EN55014's for household apparatus, for example. I don't see that a telescope would be within the scope of EN 55014-1 and -2. Those standards don't cover all 'household apparatus', but a sub-set of it. In any case, CENELEC rules are that 'application determines the standard', based on the reasoning that a washing machine with a microprocessor is a household appliance and not ITE. So I don't see that EN61326 is ruled out. I work from home, so do I have to have all my electronics test gear tested to, say, EN 60065 rather than EN 61010-1? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
antennas
Does anyone know what standards would cover Amateur Radio Antennas in Europe? Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Hi-Pot testing
Thanks for the response. It's hard to say. I wasn't there for the hipot test. I just saw the aftermath. A little background: The unit under test had a power supply which we designed from off the shelf building blocks. The first building block is a rectifier/doubler, which takes the AC input and rectifies it. The rectifier also has some smarts which kick in a doubler for input voltages under 180VAC. The output of the rectifier is always about 320VDC. This 320VDC is split into two rails of 160VDC each so that 200V, low profile capacitors can be used. Each of these split rails is protected by a 230V gas tube. The 320VDC is then used by high voltage DC/DC converters (purchased modules) which make 5V and 12V. The hipot test burned out the rectifier. My guess is that the gas tubes on the output fired. Since they have such a high instantaneous current draw, the recitifier could be momentarily overloaded. Even the fuse in front of the rectifier (it did blow) could not protect the rectifier from the hard blow characteristic of the gas tubes. We could populate the circuitboard without the gas tubes, assemble the unit, hipot test it and then install the gas tubes. However, to me, this would seem to make the hipot test superfluous. The amount of re-assembly required to re-install the gas tubes would make the initial hipot test a waste of time. There would be all sorts of chances for somebody to drop a screw into the unit, or leave one out. Is there a way that the subassemblies could be hipot tested, then the main assembly could have a low voltage hipot just to check for the ubiquitous dropped screw? Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Instruments Group email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [SMTP:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:31 PM To: Chris Maxwell Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Hi-Pot testing Hi Chris: During safety testing at the lab, the unit passes HiPot testing. However, the unit is broken by the testing. Rigorously, the unit passes its type testing because it doesn't become unsafe by the Hipot. However, it isn't functional after the test; and it requires repair. I have two questions: 1. Is the functional failure due to over-voltage of a component? Or 2. Is the functional failure due to the hi-pot leakage current between primary and secondary? If 1, then you should be able to disconnect that component during the test. Or, you could use the solution for 2. If 2, then the problem becomes much more complex. We test the board before it goes into the product using a bed of nails that equalizes the potential on throughout the primary and throughout the secondary. This prevents current through the components, yet tests the isolation between primary and secondary. Of course, such a test does not test the board in the end-product, which is a problem if the enclosure is metal. Without more details of your circuit and the parts which are broken, I cannot give you further advice. Best regards, Rich This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Q. on Res Bandwith performace traceabiity
My understanding is that it is the 6 dB points which are cited as the bandwidth. I'm not up on CISPR 16 but to entirely specify the bandwidth the 60 dB down points are also specified. The slope you get from the 6 dB to the 60 dB points is called the shape factor. From: Charles Grasso cgrassospri...@earthlink.net Reply-To: Charles Grasso cgrassospri...@earthlink.net Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:06:13 -0700 To: Emc-Pstc emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Q. on Res Bandwith performace traceabiity Greetings: Does anyone know if the Resolution Bandwidth filter performance is tracable to a given standard and which standard that might be? I was wondering if the rool-off after the 3dB points is specificed as a standard for ALL analysers. I am assuming that the anaswer is Yes as chaos would reign!! --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Hi-Pot testing
2. When the unit is in the field, it will have the surge protection installed, which will essentially limit any real life hipot voltages to about 500V (230V gas tube, 275VAC MOV). In real life, the unit would experience a maximum 500V hipot. However, in the case of a single fault (surge protection disabled), the unit could experience higher hipot voltages, which would cause damage, but not an unsafe condition (as shown by type testing). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the point of the type-level hipot test is not to simulate a real-life condition (like surge protection), but to simulate years of insulation degradation, which happens with or without surge protection. Thanks, Sam This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Hi-Pot testing
Hi Chris: During safety testing at the lab, the unit passes HiPot testing. However, the unit is broken by the testing. Rigorously, the unit passes its type testing because it doesn't become unsafe by the Hipot. However, it isn't functional after the test; and it requires repair. I have two questions: 1. Is the functional failure due to over-voltage of a component? Or 2. Is the functional failure due to the hi-pot leakage current between primary and secondary? If 1, then you should be able to disconnect that component during the test. Or, you could use the solution for 2. If 2, then the problem becomes much more complex. We test the board before it goes into the product using a bed of nails that equalizes the potential on throughout the primary and throughout the secondary. This prevents current through the components, yet tests the isolation between primary and secondary. Of course, such a test does not test the board in the end-product, which is a problem if the enclosure is metal. Without more details of your circuit and the parts which are broken, I cannot give you further advice. Best regards, Rich This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Product standard for telescope
The answer to this lies in the marketing information for the product. The target End-Use-Environment drives the choice of standards. If this equipment is being sold to residential users exclusively then it would not be scientific equipment. This would rule out EN 61326 and the choice would then be between the EN 61000-6 set or the EN55014's for household apparatus, for example. The other possible option is to use the TCF route and define specific criteria for the telescope based on night-time, outdoor use model of compliance. This may also have some merit if the manufacturer intends to produce small runs with multiple options. Regards, Alan Brewster, MIEE Senior Systems Safety Engineer Novellus Systems, Tualatin, OR From: lfresea...@aol.com [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 8:23 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Product standard for telescope Hi All, I'm chatting with a client that manufacturers high end telescopes. Not usually found in Walmart, Currys etc. but they may find their way into richer family homes. These chaps are great for observing Mars at the moment! We are trying to decide which EMC product standard may apply for EMC. Would anyone care to share their opinions? Thanks, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
RE: Hi-Pot testing
Chris, I wasn't real clear on what was breaking during your hipot test. However, these comments might help: 1) Be sure you are hipot testing with a DC test voltage. AC testing can damage your Y capacitors. DC test voltage = peak of AC test voltage = 1.414 x AC test voltage. 2) If your product incorporates a surge protector (i.e. MOV), you are permitted to remove the device or lift one leg so that it is not in the circuit during the test. 3) Waiving the test is usually not an option with the Certification lab. However, adjusting the test to prevent damage (such as removing the MOV) is typically permitted. If these don't solve your problem, provide more details on the damage perhaps I/someone can provide additional input. Regards, Bill Bisenius E.D. D. bi...@productsafet.com -Original Message- From: Chris Maxwell [mailto:chris.maxw...@nettest.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 11:45 AM To: EMC-PSTC Internet Forum Subject:Hi-Pot testing All, We have a product that runs from AC power. During safety testing at the lab, the unit passes HiPot testing. However, the unit is broken by the testing. Rigorously, the unit passes its type testing because it doesn't become unsafe by the Hipot. However, it isn't functional after the test; and it requires repair. The unit does meet surge test requirements. (EN 61000-4-5, Class II). The unit has surge protection circuitry installed from line to earth (MOV in line with a gas tube). This surge protection is disabled before the hipot test. So, here are a few of my random thoughts on this process. 1. I can't break every unit by hipot testing it before I ship it. 2. When the unit is in the field, it will have the surge protection installed, which will essentially limit any real life hipot voltages to about 500V (230V gas tube, 275VAC MOV). In real life, the unit would experience a maximum 500V hipot. However, in the case of a single fault (surge protection disabled), the unit could experience higher hipot voltages, which would cause damage, but not an unsafe condition (as shown by type testing). 3. The surge protection is not easily removed for hipot and then reinstalled after hipot. So...are there any alternative test or inspection methods that can be used on this product? Thanks in advance, Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Instruments Group email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Energy-usinig Products
For those interested, the latest proposal (dated 1 August) by the EC commission for EuP can be found at http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/pri/en/lip/latest/doc/2003/com2003_0453en01 .doc (copy this as a single line). Regards, Neil Helsby ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Hi-Pot testing
All, We have a product that runs from AC power. During safety testing at the lab, the unit passes HiPot testing. However, the unit is broken by the testing. Rigorously, the unit passes its type testing because it doesn't become unsafe by the Hipot. However, it isn't functional after the test; and it requires repair. The unit does meet surge test requirements. (EN 61000-4-5, Class II). The unit has surge protection circuitry installed from line to earth (MOV in line with a gas tube). This surge protection is disabled before the hipot test. So, here are a few of my random thoughts on this process. 1. I can't break every unit by hipot testing it before I ship it. 2. When the unit is in the field, it will have the surge protection installed, which will essentially limit any real life hipot voltages to about 500V (230V gas tube, 275VAC MOV). In real life, the unit would experience a maximum 500V hipot. However, in the case of a single fault (surge protection disabled), the unit could experience higher hipot voltages, which would cause damage, but not an unsafe condition (as shown by type testing). 3. The surge protection is not easily removed for hipot and then reinstalled after hipot. So...are there any alternative test or inspection methods that can be used on this product? Thanks in advance, Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Instruments Group email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
unsubscribe
__ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Multiple postings re fuse replacement markings
From: richhug...@aol.com [mailto:richhug...@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 2:29 AM To: j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Multiple postings re fuse replacement markings Folks, Apologies for bombarding you with the same Email. This was because AOL sent me a message that my message couldn't be sent and so I re-tried. If its any consolation, that means I got extra helpings of so-and-so is out of the office messages. Richard Hughes Just a hint to minimize those avalanches of OOF autoreplies; I set a mail rule to look for the words out of the office in the subject line, and to then delete those emails. This simple filter trashes almost every one of those autoreplies. Ed Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN NARTE Certified EMC Engineer Technician Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA USA 858-505-2780 (Voice) 858-505-1583 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty
Q. on Res Bandwith performace traceabiity
Greetings: Does anyone know if the Resolution Bandwidth filter performance is tracable to a given standard and which standard that might be? I was wondering if the rool-off after the 3dB points is specificed as a standard for ALL analysers. I am assuming that the anaswer is Yes as chaos would reign!! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Multiple postings re fuse replacement markings
Folks, Apologies for bombarding you with the same Email. This was because AOL sent me a message that my message couldn't be sent and so I re-tried. If its any consolation, that means I got extra helpings of so-and-so is out of the office messages. Richard Hughes
Re: Product standard for telescope
I read in !emc-pstc that lfresea...@aol.com wrote (in d.17866aa0.2c7ec...@aol.com) about 'Product standard for telescope' on Wed, 27 Aug 2003: We are trying to decide which EMC product standard may apply for EMC. Would anyone care to share their opinions? It's a scientific instrument, so IEC/EN 61326 would seem to be appropriate. But if you find it is not, you could use the Generic Standards (IEC/EN 61000-6 Parts). -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: fuse replacement markings
I read in !emc-pstc that richhug...@aol.com wrote (in 130.2454e3f2.2c7e 9...@aol.com) about 'fuse replacement markings' on Wed, 27 Aug 2003: There are plenty of fuse standards other than IEC 60127 and unfortunately there is little or no commonality in marking requirements between them. Also, the upper limit of 6.3A for IEC 60127 fuses is far too limiting for certain types of IT equipment (some telecomms equipment use DC rated fuses in the hundreds of amps range, for example). I am aware of all you say, and I suppose that it is due to the excessive influence from one country, that pays only lip-service to IEC while retaining a very large number of conflicting national standards, that IEC 60950 does not refer to the many IEC fuse standards. In this case, since the fuse was said to be unnecessary, I think it was reasonable to assume that it is a fuse for which an IEC 60127 type is suitable. I doubt that it is rated at 'hundreds of amps' or even more than 6.3 A. I agree that the upper bound of 6.3 A is a considerable inconvenience, and many manufacturers make fuses dimensionally in agreement with 60127 Parts but rated at higher currents. I wonder why the upper bound is not increased. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: fuse replacement markings
I read in !emc-pstc that richhug...@aol.com wrote (in 174.1f945a94.2c7e a...@aol.com) about 'fuse replacement markings' on Wed, 27 Aug 2003: There are plenty of fuse standards other than IEC 60127 and unfortunately there is little or no commonality in marking requirements between them. Also, the upper limit of 6.3A for IEC 60127 fuses is far too limiting for certain types of IT equipment (some telecomms equipment use DC rated fuses in the hundreds of amps range, for example). Why did you post your message five times? -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org Archive is being moved, we will announce when it is back on-line. All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Comb Filter
Hello All, Thanks to everyone who answered regarding my question about comb filters. Regards Shaike Raz EMC Laboratory Manager EMC Laboratory ITL (Product Testing) Ltd. Kfar Bin Nun Israel Tel: +972-8-9797799 Fax: +972-8-9797702 Email: s...@itl.co.il http://www.itl.co.il http://www.i-spec.com This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender.
Re: EMI receiver for OATS
In a message dated 8/27/2003 6:55:38 PM Central Daylight Time, gary_mcintu...@msn.com writes: Just a small heads up John. I don't have the specs on the instruments that you are discussing but one of the many things that the NIST folks want to know about your site are the qualifications of the equipment. I don't remember all of the parameters and I would think it unlikely that a good quality machine fails to meet them but you may want to look back and confirm this equipment will meet the NVLAP or A2LA inspections. Gary Hi All, I can only speak for the Schaffner. My understanding is that it is fully CISPR 16 compliant. This is what you will need if you are to perform ANY CISPR related measurement, OR FCC measurement when you use the allowed CISPR route. The FCC have decided to allow a spectrum analyser, with accessories, in competent hands. Watch the low rep rate pulse response, this is where most instruments fall down You also really need to look at the software. Most times this will be your main interface, an I personally ( sales pitch a little bit here ) think the Schaffner software leaves the rest in the dust... The biggest recommendation... I plan to buy one as soon as funds permit. Cheers, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
Product standard for telescope
Hi All, I'm chatting with a client that manufacturers high end telescopes. Not usually found in Walmart, Currys etc. but they may find their way into richer family homes. These chaps are great for observing Mars at the moment! We are trying to decide which EMC product standard may apply for EMC. Would anyone care to share their opinions? Thanks, Derek N. Walton Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility Poplar Grove, Illinois, USA www.lfresearch.com
Re: fuse replacement markings
John, Regarding your comment: Aren't you trying to conform to IEC 60950? If so, the code that I posted is what is required. I am surprised that clause 1.7.6 is so vague, when the corresponding clause in IEC 60065 is very explicit that the code specified in IEC 60127 shall be used There are plenty of fuse standards other than IEC 60127 and unfortunately there is little or no commonality in marking requirements between them. Also, the upper limit of 6.3A for IEC 60127 fuses is far too limiting for certain types of IT equipment (some telecomms equipment use DC rated fuses in the hundreds of amps range, for example). To make matters worse, it is possible to get fuses that are both 5x20mm and 6.3x32mm that are approved to UL 198G rather than IEC 60127 and these fuses are 'normal blow' or 'slow-blow' rather than 'F' or 'T' (or even 'M') and the calibration points are different such that replacing a T3A IEC rated fuse with a 3A Slow-blow UL rated fuse could lead to unexpected safety problems. [It is also possible to get dual-approved fuses.] Another characteristic that is seemingly significantly different is the prospective fault current. As an example, the Littlefuse 239 series of 5x20mm slow-blow fuse is approved only to UL/CSA/METI requirements and a 3.15A rated fuse is stated as having an 'interrupting rating' of 10 kA @ 125Vac and 100 A @ 250Vac. The 218 series of 5x20mm T fuses is designed to meet IEC 60127 and has both European and North American approvals, the corresponding 'interrupting rating' for a 3.15A rated fuse is 31.5A @ 250Vac. Having spoken to fuse manufacturers in the past, I am told that these seemingly very different interrupting ratings between two fuses that are visually very similar (both glass, no sand filling etc.) has to do with the different test criteria contained within the UL vs. IEC standards. I can see only problems in a product standard requiring a marking that is different to that of the fuse standard. If an equipment manufacturer selects a fuse that is, for example, designed to a UL standard and the fuse is marked (for instance) 3A slow-blow then having a marking on the product that says T3A/250V is no help whatsoever to the consumer or service person. Of course, if the product standard were to say that all replaceable fuses must be of the IEC 60127 type then that would be consistent, but very limiting. Therefore, IEC 60950-1 is not vague in the sense that it lacks precision where such is required. It is, however, flexible enough to cope with the fact that not all fuses are the same. Of course, come the advent of the hazard based standard that will replace and supersede both IEC 60950-1 and IEC 60065 we will all be able to fit square pegs into round holes and vice-versa ;-) Best regards, Richard Hughes Safety Answers Ltd.
