Re: IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society

2003-10-10 Thread Jack Burns

Here's the field of interest statement straight out of the Constitution for
the new society.

"The field of interest of the Society shall be the theory, design,
development and implementation of product safety engineering for equipment
and devices used in the scientific, engineering, industrial, commercial and
residential arenas. The Society will provide a focus for cooperative
activities, both internal and external to IEEE, including the promotion and
coordination of product safety engineering activities among IEEE entities.

In addition, the Society will provide a forum for product safety engineering
professionals and design engineers to discuss and disseminate technical
information, to enhance personal product safety engineering skills, and to
provide product safety engineering outreach to engineers, students and
others with an interest in the field. "

As you can see, it's pretty broad - not even specifically limited to
electromechanical devices.  As a practical matter, it'll take time to spread
into all areas.  It depends on the direction the members want to take it.

Jack M. Burns
Sr. Product Safety Engineer
978 745 3563
jbu...@ieee.org


> From: fdev...@assaabloyitg.com
> Reply-To: fdev...@assaabloyitg.com
> Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:41:32 -0600
> To: "Roman, Dan" 
> Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org, owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
> Subject: Re: IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society
> 
> 
> 
> Dan,
> 
> Will PSES cover only ITE and ISM or will other types of products also be
> included, such as Access Control, Burglary, and Fire Control?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Frank de Vall
> Sr. Engineering Manager - Compliance
> Assa Abloy ITG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Roman, Dan" 
>  To:   
> Sent by:  cc:
> owner-emc-pstc@majordoSubject:  IEEE Product Safety Engineering
> Society  
> mo.ieee.org  
> 
> 
> 10/09/2003 09:08 AM
> Please respond to
> "Roman, Dan" 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All renewing IEEE members and those considering membership in the IEEE
> who have an interest in Product Safety have a new society to consider,
> the Product Safety Engineering Society (PSES).  Visit the PSES web site
> at www.ieee-pses.org.
> 
> This new Society includes the theory, design, development and
> implementation of product safety engineering related to the process
> required for ensuring that electromechanical products are safe for use
> within a wide-range of environments. Dissemination of technical
> information to enhance personal product safety engineering skills is a
> primary focus of the Society.
> 
> The IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society plans to work closely with
> various IEEE Societies and Councils that also include product safety
> engineering as a technical specialty.  The new society already has local
> groups in several cities that will be formed into chapters, and others
> will be started as demand dictates.  Membership benefits will include a
> virtual community for society members.
> 
> The society ID for your renewal or application forms is "043-0431" and
> the yearly fee is US$35.
> 
> Renew online at www.ieee.org/renewal.
> 
> Join the IEEE at http://www.ieee.org/services/join/.
> 
> Customize your membership at www.ieee.org/addnewservices.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> PSES Steering Committee
> 
> 
> 
> ---
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This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety
Technical Committee 

Re: Luggage Loader

2003-10-10 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Sam Wismer  wrote (in
<001e01c38f26$4a5f13a0$0901000a@SAMW>) about 'Luggage Loader' on Fri, 10
Oct 2003:
>By the way, do you have any high level contacts at the Catholic Church? 
>I need a signature on my TCF.

The Pope? No hope. HH doesn't sign anything but bulls.(;-)
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: Corrosion tests - NEBS or Milspec acceleration factors?

2003-10-10 Thread robert Macy

Gary,

>From experience with security systems only "close" to the
seashore (approx 2 miles away) it is best to *NEVER* have
any of the metal parts under stress/tension, else the
corrosion rates are incredibly accelerated.  

The particular stainless steel part had been tested real
time in worse environments with absolutely no degradation
detectable.  Yet, in the actual application under mounting
stress the stainless steel part repeatably failed within 1
year even that far away from the ocean.   

  - Robert -

   Robert A. Macy, PE .. m...@california.com
   408 286 3985 . . . .. . . fx 408 297 9121
   AJM International Electronics Consultants
   101 E San Fernando, Suite 402
   San Jose, CA  95112



On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:47:40 -0700
 "GARY MCINTURFF"  wrote:
> Ernie,
> I know you received Naftali's  email so I will just
> clarify a little more. We test and pass the GR-487
> outdoor enclosure requirements for the telecommunications
> industry but I have a client who is non-telecom.
> Telecommunciations customers seem to accept the test,
> because past experience has shown in meets the equipment
> and time needs (20 years). Non-Telecommunications
> customers not familiar with the tests kind of expect some
> sort of acceleration factor for the hours under test to
> demonstrate how long the equipment will work, rather than
> a more or less pass fail salt fog test. He wants to how
> long the equipment can withstand the elements at his
> coastal location. Is there any sort of acceleration model
> used in the salt fog test, or the mixed gasses and
> hygroscopic tests?  He is a little unhappy with my
> current response (understandably) that experience shows
> the test satisfies the screening requirements or else
> they  would have been changed long ago to something that
> did meet the equipment and time requirements.
> Can you give me a little insight?
> Thanks
> Gary McInturff



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RE: CISPR22 applicability for ITE

2003-10-10 Thread Pettit, Ghery

Alex,

The FCC does not accept Amendment A1:2000 to CISPR 22:1997.  They have
not accepted the ferrite clamps, and with the work that is going on in
CISPR SC I to remove the clamps from CISPR 22:2003 the work in ANSI C63
to add them to ANSI C63.4 has ceased.

Likewise, the FCC does not mandate telecommunication port conducted
emissions testing.

The FCC will allow you to test to the radiated emissions limits from 30
MHz to 1 GHz in CISPR 22 in lieu of the limits called out in 15.109 of
the FCC Rules, but you must still use the test methods in ANSI C63.4.
If testing above 1 GHz is required under the FCC Rules based on the
maximum clock used in the product, that testing must also be performed,
regardless of which limits were used below 1 GHz.

Ghery Pettit
Intel Corporation




From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Alex McNeil
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:22 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: CISPR22 applicability for ITE


Hi Guys,

Q1: Is it true that USA and Canada accept CISPR22:1997/A1:2000 instead
of
FCC Part 15 and ICES-003? and only if tested per ANSI C63-4:2002
methods?
Q2: Is it true that Australia now accepts EN55022:1998 or
CISPR22:1997+A1:2000 and/or CISPR22:2003 4th Edition?

Kind Regards
Alex McNeil
Principal Engineer



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Re: Corrosion tests - NEBS or Milspec acceleration factors?

2003-10-10 Thread GARY MCINTURFF
Ernie,
I know you received Naftali's  email so I will just clarify a little more.
We test and pass the GR-487 outdoor enclosure requirements for the
telecommunications industry but I have a client who is non-telecom.
Telecommunciations customers seem to accept the test, because past experience
has shown in meets the equipment and time needs (20 years).
Non-Telecommunications customers not familiar with the tests kind of expect
some sort of acceleration factor for the hours under test to demonstrate how
long the equipment will work, rather than a more or less pass fail salt fog
test. He wants to how long the equipment can withstand the elements at his
coastal location. Is there any sort of acceleration model used in the salt fog
test, or the mixed gasses and hygroscopic tests?  He is a little unhappy with
my current response (understandably) that experience shows the test satisfies
the screening requirements or else they  would have been changed long ago to
something that did meet the equipment and time requirements.
Can you give me a little insight?
Thanks
Gary McInturff

 




RE: CISPR22 applicability for ITE

2003-10-10 Thread andy.wh...@nokia.com

Alex,

CISPR22 can be used but do not override the FCC requirements e.g. part 15.33
indicates for intentional radiators testing up to the 10th harmonic of the
fundamental (if the fund. is below 10GHz) or test up to 40GHz which ever is
lower.
Also for unintentional radiators the highest frequency generated within the
device also indicates the upper freq. of measurement e.g. for signals being
generated within the EUT between 500MHz to 1000MHz, test up to 5GHz.
CISPR22 does not mandate testing above 1GHz and most ITE (nowadays)will
require testing above 1GHz to meet the requirements of FCC rules.

Andy

_
Andy White
EMC Engineer
Nokia Mobile Phones
San Diego, CA
Tel 858 831 4534
andy.wh...@nokia.com
_



From: ext Alex McNeil [mailto:alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com]
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 1:22 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: CISPR22 applicability for ITE



Hi Guys,

Q1: Is it true that USA and Canada accept CISPR22:1997/A1:2000 instead of
FCC Part 15 and ICES-003? and only if tested per ANSI C63-4:2002 methods?
Q2: Is it true that Australia now accepts EN55022:1998 or
CISPR22:1997+A1:2000 and/or CISPR22:2003 4th Edition?

Kind Regards
Alex McNeil
Principal Engineer



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RE: Corrosion tests - NEBS or Milspec acceleration factors?

2003-10-10 Thread Naftali Shani
Gary, you should have been at the Vz NEBS conference (which ended yesterday)
and asked this question.
 
One of the presenters was Ernie Gallo from Telcordia, and judging from his
very informative presentation, may be able to answer your question.
 
Ernie can be reached @ 973.829.4638 or via e-mail (I'm copying him as well) @
ega...@telcordia.com - Ernie, the floor is yours.
 


Regards,
Naftali Shani, Catena Networks (www.catena.com)
307 Legget Drive, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K2K 3C8
613.599.6430/866.2CATENA (X.8277); C 295.7042; F 599.0445
E-mail: nsh...@catena.com 


From: GARY MCINTURFF [mailto:mcinturff3...@msn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 5:20 PM
To: emc-pstc
Subject: Corrosion tests - NEBS or Milspec accleration factors?


Question came up. Is there any real time correlation for some of the NEBS
endurance tests. Salt corrosion (outdoor units - GR-487) for example.? In
other words does the 200 hour test relate to 20 years real exposure to salt
fog and spray common in port cities. Same question for the Mix flow gases
and/or the hygroscopic dust tests.
The test can be looked at one of two ways - 1) There is a direct
acceleration correlation for every hour in the chambers the equipment would
experience similar corrosion in 2 weeks of exposure if installed in a seaport
etc. 4 hours 8 weeks etc.
2) The tests may be overly harsh, but experience has shown that while not
directly relatable if the equipment withstands the various tests then it will
last at least as long as the contracted life of the equipment. Say 20 Years!
GR-1089 and GR-63 don't seem to provide this information. Is there
somewhere else I should be looking?
Thanks
Gary




RE: Luggage Loader

2003-10-10 Thread Sam Wismer

John,
I tend to agree with you that the test would seem to be lacking in its
intent since much of the band would be disregarded.  In fact why even
bother.  Nevertheless, it is in black in white in the article.  Perhaps
it is worth some investigation with the author.

Thanks for your comments.  

By the way, do you have any high level contacts at the Catholic Church?
I need a signature on my TCF.

Kind Regards,

 

 

Sam Wismer

Engineering Manager

ACS, Inc.

 

*Tel: (770) 831-8048

*Fax: (770) 831-8598

*Web:  www.acstestlab.com

*swis...@acstestlab.com




From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
[mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of John Woodgate
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 3:07 PM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Re: Luggage Loader



I read in !emc-pstc that Sam Wismer  wrote (in
<006c01c38e85$e6523e50$0901000a@SAMW>) about 'Luggage Loader' on Thu, 9
Oct 2003:
>FYI.  The article in Conformity states that outdoor testing is
>permissible however testing is "...limited to specific ISM frequencies 
>(frequencies where RF transmission at the required level are legal)." 
>What I don't know is if this practice is only permissible for in-situ 
>testing or if it can also be used for large objects at a test facility.

I very much doubt that it can be used at all in Europe. Testing at ISM
frequencies only is not a sufficiently stringent immunity test.
>
>
>I am getting the impression that if you do use this method that a
>competent body should be involved especially since the entire band is 
>not being covered. 

That is definitely the only possible way (if, in fact, it exists at all)
of being in a position to sign the DOC with any confidence.

> Someone of some higher authority will have to sign
>off on that I'm sure.  At least I would want them to.

Indeed. Maybe you could get an archbishop [insert alternative senior
cleric of your choice] to refer it up. (;-)
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go
to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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Re: Add a new member

2003-10-10 Thread John Woodgate

I read in !emc-pstc that Price, Andrew P (UK)  wrote (in ) about 'Add a new member' on Fri, 10 Oct 2003:
>Could you please add Dr Nigel Carter
>
>nigel.ca...@ntlworld.com

'cater'?? Is that a typo I see before me?
-- 
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk 
Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to 
http://www.isce.org.uk
PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL!


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HF earth resistance test

2003-10-10 Thread bob.edwa...@invensys.com

I'm used to testing earth rod installations at LF or DC. Does anyone know
of an established technique for assessment at HF, say around 10MHz? Our
Technical Director had heard of it when he was out in the far east, but no
other details.

Regards, Bob Edwards, Product Compliance Technical Authority
Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd., Chippenham, Wilts, U.K.
Tel: (0)1249-441544 Fax: (0)1249-441419




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Re: Luggage Loader

2003-10-10 Thread rehel...@mmm.com


>In a message dated 10/9/2003 9:48:19 AM Central Daylight Time,
lfresea...@aol.com writes:>My question is, is this method allowed only for
>in-situ testing, or can it be used when the EUT is so large that it cannot
fit in the chamber?
>Hi Sam,
>
>I faced the same problem testing injection Moulding Machines. To get
around this I made a fixtureout of 4 steel panels. On the outside of the
panels I >mounted all the controls, sensors and loads used in the machine.
The whole fixture came down to about 5 feet square. For wires longer than
would >reasonably fit on the fixture, I brought off the panels and coiled
on the floor in front of the fixture.
>
>We were able then to test the control systems, very close to that
representing a machine. RI was performed on all 4 sides. Indeed, on the
couple of >machines we did ETF and CI on, the correlation was excellent.

I heard of a method that uses current injection coils on the cabling inside
of the unit. You calculate the injection current based on the radiated
field strength. That may or may not be easy depending on construction. I
have never tried this method but if you have no other alternative.. It
would require a TCF so justifications could be made.

Bob Heller
3M EMC Laboratory, 76-1-01
St. Paul, MN 55107-1208
Tel:  651- 778-6336
Fax:  651-778-6252
===


  

  lfresea...@aol.com  

  Sent by: To:  
swis...@acstestlab.com
  owner-emc-pstc@majordo
emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org   
  mo.ieee.org  cc:

   Subject:  Re: Luggage
Loader
  

  10/09/2003 11:15 AM 

  Please respond to   

  Lfresearch  

  

  







Cheers,

Derek N. Walton
Owner, L F Research EMI Design and Test Facility
Poplar Grove,
IL 61065





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RE: CISPR22 applicability for ITE

2003-10-10 Thread Carpentier Kristiaan

Alex,

About Q2: I copy a posting from Sept. 8th on a similar question that I
raised at that time.
As CISPR22, 4th ed is not published in the OJ yet as an EN55022, it cannot
be used yet.

*
The EMC regulations in Australia allow compliance with any of the following
for IT type equipment:
a)  AS/NZS 3548:1995 or AS/NZS CISPR 22:2002; or
b)  CISPR 22:1997 + Amdt 1:2000 or CISPR 22:1997 + Amdt 1:2000 + Amdt
2:2002; or
c)  EN 55022:1994 + Amdt 1:1995 + Amdt 2:1997 (until Aug 05) or EN
55022:1998 or EN 55022:1998 + Amdt 1:2000

For European standards the Australian EMC regulations specifically states
the following:-
"Transitional arrangements for amendments to the standards are:
-  Two (2) years for IEC, CISPR, AS/NZS standards at the time of publication
-  transitional period as published in the Official Journal of the European
Communities for EN standards

This means that if you choose to declare compliance to European standards
now that Europe has officially revised the "cessation date" for EN
55022:1994 to Aug 05 then compliance with EN 55022:1994 is acceptable in
Australia until Aug 05.

In July I prepared a table identifying what standards were acceptable in
Australia and until what dates they were acceptable.  I have attached this
information in a PDF file.  Please note it reflects the then official OJ
listed "cessation date" for EN 55022:1994 (i.e. Aug 03).  Now the OJ has
officially revised this date to Aug 05 this standard would be acceptable
until then.

I hope you and others in the group find the table informative and useful.



Best regards,
Kevin Richardson

Stanimore Pty Limited
Compliance Solutions for Technology Products
(Legislation/Regulations/Standards/Australian Agent Services)
Ph:   02-4329-4070   (Int'l: +61-2-4329-4070)
Fax:  02-4328-5639   (Int'l: +61-2-4328-5639)
Mobile:  04-1224-1620   (Int'l: +61-4-1224-1620)
Email:kevin.richard...@ieee.org
*


Vriendelijke Groeten, Best regards, Meilleures salutations,

Kristiaan Carpentier
Regulatory and Approval Engineer
Thomson multimedia Broadband Belgium N.V., S.A.
Prins Boudewijnlaan 47, B-2650 Edegem, Belgium
Tel: +32 3 443 6407 - Fax: +32 3 443 6632
e-mail: kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net
www.speedtouch.com



From: Alex McNeil [mailto:alex.mcn...@ingenicofortronic.com]
Sent: vrijdag 10 oktober 2003 10:22
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: CISPR22 applicability for ITE



Hi Guys,

Q1: Is it true that USA and Canada accept CISPR22:1997/A1:2000 instead of
FCC Part 15 and ICES-003? and only if tested per ANSI C63-4:2002 methods?
Q2: Is it true that Australia now accepts EN55022:1998 or
CISPR22:1997+A1:2000 and/or CISPR22:2003 4th Edition?

Kind Regards
Alex McNeil
Principal Engineer



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CISPR22 applicability for ITE

2003-10-10 Thread Alex McNeil

Hi Guys,

Q1: Is it true that USA and Canada accept CISPR22:1997/A1:2000 instead of
FCC Part 15 and ICES-003? and only if tested per ANSI C63-4:2002 methods?
Q2: Is it true that Australia now accepts EN55022:1998 or
CISPR22:1997+A1:2000 and/or CISPR22:2003 4th Edition?

Kind Regards
Alex McNeil
Principal Engineer



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Add a new member

2003-10-10 Thread Price, Andrew P (UK)


Could you please add Dr Nigel Carter

nigel.ca...@ntlworld.com

to the emc_pstc mailing list

Regards
Andy

Andrew Price
Principal Development Engineer (EMC Specialist)
BAE SYSTEMS Avionics
A125
Christopher Martin Road
Basildon, Essex
SS14 3EL

tel:   +44 (0) 1268 883308
email: andrew.p.pr...@baesystems.com
 


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