SV: Lack of markings on CD players
I checked my daughters Discman (Sony), and it is only marked with the CE. From this, I assume that this equipment is for sale in Europe only. An American version of the same product must have other markings. Regards Amund Westin Fra: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]På vegne av Tyra, John Sendt: 15. mars 2006 19:24 Til: peter merguerian; Jacob Schanker; EMC-PSTC Emne: RE: Lack of markings on CD players The lack of a CE Mark may be because you were looking at U.S. product which does not require CE Marking?? If they ship the same CD player to the EU it should still need to meet the EMC Directive I would think and be properly CE Marked?? Also for safety for the EU even though it is a low voltage product, and below the voltage limits of the current LVD, it does have a laser in it and the manufacturer should at least verify it meets the requirements of laser standard IEC60825. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of peter merguerian Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:36 AM To: Jacob Schanker; EMC-PSTC Subject: Re: Lack of markings on CD players Jacob, 1.A CD player is powered by an external ac.dc power supply 2. A mouse is powered by a computer 3. AC/DC power supplies are regulated in most countries and carry all kinds of marks for example: (Japan PSE Mark, TUV Rheinland Argentina S-Mark, Russia GOST-R Mark, cTUVR us Listing Mark for US and Canada, Mexico NOM-NYCE Mark, TUV Rheinland GS Mark etc.). In some countries, like Israel and South Africa, the marks are not required but certificates of complaince is issued by the relevant authorities. These power supplies are typically stand-alone and are provided with outputs complying with limited output power or as we call it here in the US, Class 2 secondary output circuits, meaning that any wiring and devices beyond the power supply in normal dry environments is safe. 4. Based on item 3 above, the CD player is safe from electric shock and fire hazards. 5. Unlik! e the external power supplies, personal computers are not regulated in most countries for safety. As such, mice to be used with computers have all possible markings. The manufacturers of these devices are concerned that the mouse may pose a hazard if used with a computer that was not evaluated to the applicable safety standards.Of special concern is that the computer outputs to which it may be connected has not been evaluated for limited (Class 2 output) power circuitry. Therefore, the manufacturers typically design their mouse polymeric enclosure to meet the more stringent fire enclosure requirements which in turn means more stringent flammability requirements. 6. Based on item 4, the mouse has a more risk for safety hazards than a CD player.In addition, a mouse is used more by the hand of the user than a CD player. The mouse is also subject to ergonomic requirements - a CD player is not. Because of these factors, the mouse manufacturetrs typically submit ! their product for certification. Best Regards, Peter Jacob Schanker schan...@frontiernet.net wrote: Group: A while back I bought a Memorex MD5485 portable CD player (I'm not of the iPod generation). I was surprised to see only FCC Part 15 and FDA markings on the back of the unit. There were no safety markings of any kind. By contrast, when I look at the underside of my computer's mouse, I see nearly a dozen tiny safety-related markings. This paucity of markings struck me as strange, so I went to Circuit City and looked at the packaging of every portable CD player on the shelves. None (all the common brands included) had any regulatory markings on the packaging - not a single CE mark. I'd appreciate comments on this from the group. Are my expectations for a safety mark in the USA off-base? Does the same product type (maybe even the same model) carry a CE mark in Europe? What are the applicable standards (EN, UL...) for a battery-operated (with external DC connector for a wall-wart) portable CD-player? I look forward to your always interesting comments. Jack Jacob Z. Schanker, P.E., CPEng 65 Crandon Way Rochester, NY 14618 Tel: 585 442 3909 Fax: 585 442 2182 j.schan...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ Yahoo! Mail Use http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd yahoo.com/evt=38867/*http://photomail.mail.yahoo.com Photomail to share photos without
Re: Calibration of test equipment
I think you're misunderstanding the function of the MRA's. MRA's allow non-EU states to designate testing and accreditation bodies on their own territory as Notified Bodies. Normally, in the absence of an MRA, a Notified Body has to be located on EU soil since EU Member States can only designate bodies within their own territory. To become designated under the MRA, testing and accreditation bodies will need to be accredited by the non-EU country's national accreditation service, and as such will need to comply with the national rules for accreditation, which will in practice include a requirement for test equipment to be calibrated at appropriate intervals. MRA's do not have a great deal of relevance to most manufacturers selling goods into the EU since unless they are dealing with a type of product which requires notified body involvement or have customers who demand third party certification as a condition of sale, they can please themselves how they demonstrate compliance with the CE marking directives. Regards Nick. At 4:31 pm -0500 16/3/06, Mike Hopkins wrote: It's my understanding that the MRA's require that test instruments used for compliance to European Norms be calibrated by an accredited lab --- in the US, NVLAP, A2LA, and (another?). As a manfacturer, we recommend our products be calibrated yearly. ISO 17025 includes clause 5.10.4.4, which states: The calibration certificate (or calibration lable) shall not contain any recommendation on the calibration interval except where this has been agreed with the customer. This requirement may be superseded by legal regulations. ISO 17025 is, of course, the basis of accreditation to NVLAP or A2LA and others... My question to the group is: Is there some requirement under the MRA's or European Norms that states equipment must be calibrated periodically, and is periodically defined?? It seems to me allowing the customer to decide on when calibration is due (per ISO) can lead to no requirement for calibrations at all, which in turn, puts the whole accreditation issue in questionŠ.. I find this hard to believe, but I haven't identified a paragraph makes it clearŠ. Best Regards, Michael Hopkins Manager, Customer Technical Center Process Instruments Division Thermo Electron Corporation One Lowell Research Center Lowell, MA 01852 Tel: +1 978 275 0800 ext. 334 Mobile: +1 603 765 3736 michael.hopk...@thermo.com file://www.thermo.com/esdwww.thermo.com/esd - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Calibration of test equipment
Mike, I'm not sure your right that CE marked products require Accredited calibrations. It is usual that ASSESSMENT bodies do. There is a difference. Assessment bodies of course want to further their own grip on the requirements...MHO... Mike Hopkins wrote on 3/16/2006, 3:31 PM: It's my understanding that the MRA's require that test instruments used for compliance to European Norms be calibrated by an accredited lab --- in the US, NVLAP, A2LA, and (another?). A -- Cheers, Derek Walton L F Research Poplar Grove, IL 61065, USA - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Publication on future regs and updates
For the international arena, there used to be a UK based magazine that kept abreast of what to expect. Does anyone know the publication name? Do they still exist? Are there any other publications that offer updates on future int'l regs? For the US there is Pike and Fisher which is only deals with US regs, but I am interested in a world-wide update. Thanks Hans Mellberg San Jose, CA __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Calibration of test equipment
It's my understanding that the MRA's require that test instruments used for compliance to European Norms be calibrated by an accredited lab --- in the US, NVLAP, A2LA, and (another?). As a manfacturer, we recommend our products be calibrated yearly. ISO 17025 includes clause 5.10.4.4, which states: The calibration certificate (or calibration lable) shall not contain any recommendation on the calibration interval except where this has been agreed with the customer. This requirement may be superseded by legal regulations. ISO 17025 is, of course, the basis of accreditation to NVLAP or A2LA and others... My question to the group is: Is there some requirement under the MRA's or European Norms that states equipment must be calibrated periodically, and is periodically defined?? It seems to me allowing the customer to decide on when calibration is due (per ISO) can lead to no requirement for calibrations at all, which in turn, puts the whole accreditation issue in question….. I find this hard to believe, but I haven't identified a paragraph makes it clear…. Best Regards, Michael Hopkins Manager, Customer Technical Center Process Instruments Division Thermo Electron Corporation One Lowell Research Center Lowell, MA 01852 Tel: +1 978 275 0800 ext. 334 Mobile: +1 603 765 3736 michael.hopk...@thermo.com file://www.thermo.com/esd www.thermo.com/esd - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Standards for safety labels - 40 years challenge
In message 005501c64939$32f15c80$0400a8c0@Pete97219Compaq, dated Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Pete Perkins peperkin...@cs.com writes Among the more significant American issues is that symbols, by themselves, are inadequate in providing useful information to users. Which is quite right. The Secretariat of IEC TC100 many years ago ran a competition among delegates to the plenary meeting to identify the meanings of a range of symbols associated with television receivers and colour displays. The winner was one of my British colleagues (and remember these are experts on the subject). This proved that you need a PhD to remember and understand the symbols! (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Standards for safety labels - 40 years challenge
Nick, Thanx for your question ... 'the 40 years challenge'. The trail lawyers attacking manufacturers use a multi-pronged attack in showing that equipment is unsafe. The first point is usually some design defect along with data/testimony that a safer design alternative is available (irrespective of the cost to design or manufacture). Standards come into play by there is no American presumption that meeting a standard relieves the manufacturer of any responsibly for providing a safe design. Standards are usually presented as the lowest common denominator of consensual requirements. Secondly there might be some manufacturing defect that can be identified - especially if the design argument is weak or non-existent. The entire manufacturing control system - from specifying and purchasing the proper materials and parts down to quality assurance steps on the line, etc - come into question here. Finally, the argument comes down to markings and instructions to alert the user to hazards and how to avoid them. The manufacturer, of course, has to defend the equipment design and manufacturing against all of these. The result of this has been that markings have been upgraded to overcome these arguments. Although it is not completely settled, in law or in written standards (trial lawyers thrive on the uncertainty), the usual approach is to clearly provide some clear signal word (Danger, Warning or Caution, etc) then identify the hazard (fire, electric shock, burn, etc) and provide some avoidance action to stay out of trouble. Look at the ANSI Z535 markings usually used to see these elements. This interaction between product manufacturers, trail lawyers and standards has been going on for more than 40 years (it bloomed in the 1960's when the first hippie lawyers went after issues to fix all the social issues in America). The ANSI Z535 standard for hazard marking has continually been upgraded to meet the challenges made. Among the more significant American issues is that symbols, by themselves, are inadequate in providing useful information to users. This complicates the work of manufacturers in an international market. Another is that any new symbols must be vetted, by the group introducing it, with a cross section of users to ensure that the symbol is properly understood. We are using some multi-language labels here -English Spanish (US) or English French (Canadian). The Europeans will catch up; for more than 10 years American Products Liability lawyers have been giving seminars in Europe to train lawyers there to help anyone injured by equipment to sue for damages. I understand that the European system is different than the US; but that doesn't mean that clever attorneys won't find some leverage to promote these types of trails (can anyone on this PSNet identify wedge issues that can be used in this way?). The long term result is that the system will slowly change and manufacturers will have to provide changes in products (including hazard markings) to be successful. Hopefully this short synopsis has been helpful, especially to those outside the US who probably don't know this history. :) br, Pete Peter E Perkins, PE Principal Product Safety Engineer PO Box 23427 Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 503/452-1201 fone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Value of a Declaration of Incorporation (DoI)
Return Receipt Your Value of a Declaration of Incorporation (DoI) document: wasGreg McClure/Lex/Lexmark received by: at:03/16/2006 13:24:04 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Re[2]: The future of Open Area Test Sites
CISPR 22 is not being amended to do away with the OATS. And a FAR is not contemplated. Now, the early work on CISPR 32 is allowing the FAR as an alternative. CD should be out soon. Ghery Pettit From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of brian_ku...@leco.com Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:29 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re[2]: The future of Open Area Test Sites I assume that OATS will still be the standard, right? If a product's compliance is in question, results from an OATS will take precedence over any other test site such as FARs, T-Cell, etc.. Right? OR, does the data from a FAR correlate so well with an OATS what they are considered equivalent? Brian Quite right, so I asked Martin and he replied: I expect OATS will continue to be used alongside FARs for many years decades) to come. What the UK lab may have been intimating was that in certain localities (most of the developed world) OATS are subject to a lot of ambient interference so customers may be attracted to labs that have FARs. He also supplied this URL: http://www.npl.co.uk/electromagnetic/rfmff/newcal/emc.html -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk 2006 is YMMVI- Your mileage may vary immensely. John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Comb Generators for Site to Site Comparison / Correlations
Doug / et al Thanks to all that have responded. All of these inputs have been very helpful. Best regards, Mac _ From: Powell, Doug [mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:25 PM To: Elliott Mac-FME001; EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: RE: Comb Generators for Site to Site Comparison / Correlations Elliot, We are using a Credence / Laplace generator with very good success. The particular mode we are using is the ERS EMC10.3G which is for 30MHz to 3GHz. It is extremely stable and I am certain their higher frequency products will be just as capable. They have a 250MHz to 26GHz product called a CGE02. http://credencetech.com/media/products/CGE02_Rev_2.pdf -Doug Doug Powell, Staff Engineer, CSA Category Liaison Corporate Compliance Dept. Advanced Energy Industries Inc. _ From: Elliott Mac-FME001 [mailto:fme...@motorola.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:27 PM To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: Comb Generators for Site to Site Comparison / Correlations We are looking at high frequency comb generators [say 1- 18GHz] for comparing two EMC sites - a 5m semi-anechoic chamber and a 10m OATS. Has anyone out there had good luck with any specific one of the available options out there? Best regards, Mac - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Comb Generators for Site to Site Comparison / Correlations
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Elliot, We are using a Credence / Laplace generator with very good success. The particular mode we are using is the ERS EMC10.3G which is for 30MHz to 3GHz. It is extremely stable and I am certain their higher frequency products will be just as capable. They have a 250MHz to 26GHz product called a CGE02. http://credencetech.com/media/products/CGE02_Rev_2.pdf -Doug Doug Powell, Staff Engineer, CSA Category Liaison Corporate Compliance Dept. Advanced Energy Industries Inc. _ From: Elliott Mac-FME001 [mailto:fme...@motorola.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:27 PM To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: Comb Generators for Site to Site Comparison / Correlations We are looking at high frequency comb generators [say 1- 18GHz] for comparing two EMC sites - a 5m semi-anechoic chamber and a 10m OATS. Has anyone out there had good luck with any specific one of the available options out there? Best regards, Mac - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Elliot, We are using a Credence / Laplace generator with very good success. The particular mode we are using is the ERS EMC10.3G which is for 30MHz to 3GHz. It is extremely stable and I am certain their higher frequency products will be just as capable. They have a 250MHz to 26GHz product called a CGE02. http://credencetech.com/media/products/CGE02_Rev_2.pdf -Doug Doug Powell, Staff Engineer, CSA Category Liaison Corporate Compliance Dept. Advanced Energy Industries Inc. From: Elliott Mac-FME001 [mailto:fme...@motorola.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 2:27 PM To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org Subject: Comb Generators for Site to Site Comparison / Correlations We are looking at high frequency comb generators [say 1- 18GHz] for comparing two EMC sites - a 5m semi-anechoic chamber and a 10m OATS. Has anyone out there had good luck with any specific one of the available options out there? Best regards, Mac - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc ATT13080.txt Description: Binary data
Re: Impedance wound motors.
Most safety standards require that motors which are run while the appliance is unattended undergo a locked rotor test, during which time the motor windings must not emit excessive quantities of smoke or flames, and at the end of the test no live parts must have become exposed. For larger motors (greater than 10-20 W or so IME) this is achieved by incorporating thermal cut outs of some description. For small motors, it is possible for the wire used to wind the stator to be sufficiently small that the overall impedance of the winding is high enough to prevent a damaging amount of heat being generated when the rotor is locked. Hence, no thermal cut-out is required to pass the locked rotor test. Such motors are said to be 'impedance protected'. Hope this helps. Nick. At 7:33 am -0800 16/3/06, McInturff Gary wrote: Fan motors are often impedance wound to protect them in the case of locked rotor - or something blocking the blades. I've seen the term but don't exactly know how this is accomplished. Can anybody clarify for me? Thanks Gary - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Microcontroller memory erased by noise
Hello, Maybe an ESD event or a short circuit failure causes the board's FPGA's flash to loose their program, not nice. Specificly, I have seen failures where one of the transmitter's push pull FETS shorts, takes out their 100 ohm drain resistor - then boards FPGA's (located on the opposite end of the PCB) programming mysterious disappears! Reprogramming the FPGA's solved the digital problem, not nice! This started to happen with a newly introduced brand of FPGA's (byte blaster) programable types, contact me offlist for more details. This type of board transient failure aught to make a nice IEEE paper for someone. :-) Regards, Dave Garnier David Garnier e GE Health Care ___ David S. Garnier Senior Technician Functional CT Engineering 3000 N. Grandview Ave - M/S W-1250 Waukesha, Wi. 53188 Tel: 262.312.7246 Cel: 414.899.7580 From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Moshe Valdman Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:38 AM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: Microcontroller memory erased by noise Hi all, I have a 8051 compatible microcontroller (Silicon labs) on a board I had cases at customer sites where the internal RAM and even (more rarely) internal flash was erased. Seems like this was caused by noise in those sites (e.g. other machines switched on\off) Any idea how noise could be coupled into the microcontroller? How can I minimize such an effect? thanks in advance, Moshe Valdman Reliability Manager Orbotech - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Impedance wound motors.
Fan motors are often “impedance wound” to protect them in the case of locked rotor – or something blocking the blades. I’ve seen the term but don’t exactly know how this is accomplished. Can anybody clarify for me? Thanks Gary - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Value of a Declaration of Incorporation (DoI)
Return Receipt Your document: Value of a Declaration of Incorporation (DoI) was received by: Jan Vercammen/AMEMV/AGFA at: 2006-03-16 16:33:12 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Standards for safety labels
Pete, I'd agree with the statement that the USA is ahead on this, but I'm intrigued by what you mean when you say this is because of the 40 year challenge to safe products history that the US has Do you have time to elaborate a bit? Regards Nick. At 9:33 am -0800 15/3/06, Pete Perkins wrote: Peter all, SNIP The US standard is more advanced than the international standard because of the 40 year challenge to safe products history that the US has over Europe. SNIP - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Value of a Declaration of Incorporation (DoI)
Dear colleagues, Many questions and comments about DoIs and DoCs have been posted in this forum since CE marking exists. Just adding a few to this ever growing list. Please comment on the value of a DoI, in the context described below. IMHO, a DoI makes sense only when the product cannot be considered an end-product and is being expedited in an EU country for integration in a more complex system. A good example is a large industrial installation composed of various machinery. These machines can be subject to DoIs. However, the DoI is only mentioned in the Machinery Directive, whereas the EMCD and LVD only mention the DoCs. ...and here are the questions: 1. What’s the legal value of a DoI, listing the LVD, EMC, and Machinery Directives, for the EU authorities? 2. What’s the legal value of such DoI for the integrator of the installation? 3. Assuming the sub-system machine can be considered as an end-product, but still subject to be included into a larger installation, would the integrator of the installation be better protected by a DoC than a DoI, for non-conformities due to the respective machine. Need to mention that both the machinery supplier and integrator are located in North America. The installation will be taken into service in an EU country. Thanks, Alexandru Guidea CAE Inc. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Microcontroller memory erased by noise
Hi Moshe, May be this: http://www.compliance-club.com/keith_armstrong.asp will help you understand and then minimize your effect. Piotr Galka - Original Message - From: Moshe Valdman mvald...@netvision.net.il To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:37 PM Subject: Microcontroller memory erased by noise Hi all, I have a 8051 compatible microcontroller (Silicon labs) on a board I had cases at customer sites where the internal RAM and even (more rarely) internal flash was erased. Seems like this was caused by noise in those sites (e.g. other machines switched on\off) Any idea how noise could be coupled into the microcontroller? How can I minimize such an effect? thanks in advance, Moshe Valdman Reliability Manager Orbotech - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: The future of Open Area Test Sites
Hi all, Having operated OATS sites since the late 70's in the US, yes, urban sprawl is a problem, but the biggest problem is licensed users of the spectrum. Between HDTV and wireless communications protocols, major chunks of spectrum have become _very_ difficult to do emissions measurements in, if not impossible. In that light, it's not so much the emissions from the urban dwellers, but the expansion of communications services _for_ the urban dwellers. Respectfully, Brent DeWitt CKC Laboratories Bothell, WA -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Chris Maxwell Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:33 AM To: Gibling, Vic; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: The future of Open Area Test Sites Hello Vic, I wonder if this is could be happening on a case by case basis. Many OATS sites are located in suburbs and out of the way places because... 1. The OATS takes a little bit of acreage; and real estate is more expensive in crowded areas. 2. People putting in an OATS usually want to get a low ambient in order to make measurements quicker and more reliable. 3. EMC engineers are nature lovers :-) Anyway, I wonder if the lab that you visited was suffering from the encroachment of urban sprawl. I wonder if their ambients were getting worse and worse...to the point where they would rather go through the expense of a shielded chamber than deal with the ambients. I'm sure that there are lab people following the forum. Could one of you comment on this? Is urban sprawl hurting the ambient at EMC labs? Just wondering. Chris Maxwell Design/Compliance Engineer Anritsu -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Gibling, Vic Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 3:27 AM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: The future of Open Area Test Sites Good day to you all, While visiting a UK EMC Test Site, mention was made regarding the need to replace the OATS with screened anechoic chambers to retain 'approved' status. This is expected to happen in the next two to five years. Is anyone aware of this and if it is true any references? Thank you for your time. Vic Vagabond Compliance Engineer - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 3/15/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 3/15/2006 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
