Re: [PSES] EMC Required?
In message 51e75653.6030...@radiusnorth.net, dated Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Scott Douglas sdoug...@radiusnorth.net writes: Reading the sentence above the operative terms are generates AND uses. And, because of the AND, since we do not generate then it makes no difference if we use the signals. My translation is we do not generate therefore Part 15 does not apply to this specific product. I doubt you'd get away with that if the device actually caused interference. The logic is that it and the output cable act as an antenna. So, *exactly* what goes down the cable? First, is it balanced or unbalanced? If balanced, emission would be minimal, but it probably isn't balanced. So, are these 'pulses' bursts of sine waves, half-cycles of sine waves or rectangular pulses with fast edges? If the latter, you should do a pre-test to see if there are significant emissions in the frequency range controlled by Part 15. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Power distribution submetering application - Safety standard for Instrument Current Transformers on mains relative to IEC/EN/UL61010-1 3rd 61010-2-030?
In load side power distribution industrial/commercial electrical sub-metering applications (feeder and branch circuits)we use IEC/EN/UL61010-1 3rd (plus 61010-2-030 for the current transformers (CT)) to evaluate our meter's safety design. In this application the instrument current transformer sensors typically sit on the power load cables of 120-347VL:N /208-600VL:L mains in panel boards and switch panels at the feeding breaker. The CT goes over the power cable's insulating sheath but may be located near the point where the power cable is stripped and inserted into the breaker lug and so the value of the cable's sheath is not considered in this evaluation. The meter's input is the secondary of these CT circuits without any additional isolation; therefore the CT must provide all of the isolation. Safety design wise this ends up requiring double/reinforced isolation for 600V and Over Voltage CAT III (metering category CAT III) between the primary and secondary circuits of the CT. We have evaluated a group of CTs along with our submeter as a system however I would like to have some independence from this system approach with our CT vendors. In review with UL they said if we required the CTs to be validated to provide double/reinforced isolation for 600V CATIII then we should satisfy the requirements of our submeter. Many of the CT vendors in the USA use IEEE C57.13 to evaluate their CTs. This is not an European safety standard with the concept of isolation redundancy in it. Some of the designs may meet the physical requirements of providing double/reinforced isolation for 600V CATIII but need a standard to be reviewed/validated to. 61010 works for the submeter and the CTs as a system but what standard would be best to use to validate/control the CT production as a separate independent component? Chris Wells Eaton - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Power distribution submetering application - Safety standard for Instrument Current Transformers on mains relative to IEC/EN/UL61010-1 3rd 61010-2-030?
In message 4DA8FE10C88F443E988CA5E66A960CE9@christopher, dated Thu, 18 Jul 2013, Chris Wells radioactive55...@comcast.net writes: what standard would be best to use to validate/control the CT production as a separate independent component? There is an IEC standard specifically for current transformers and it does address safety issues. IEC 60044-8. There is also the general transformer standard, of which IEC 61558-1, -2.4 and -2.6 may be applicable. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it? John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] India ITE approvals
As of July 3 there is are new mandatory approvals requiring in-country safety testing. Has there been any extension of this date? Could anyone share their experience getting India approvals under this new scheme? Thanks, David David Gelfand Compliance Specialist Kontron Canada Inc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] EMC Required?
As I’ve always interpreted that sentence both John and Scott are correct, sort of. Scott is correct in the translation of the sentence. John is correct in the ramification. But since a device has no requirements it can’t technically fail the requirements. The common terminology on contracts for subassemblies that are purchased to be included in a device that does have a requirement is something on the order of “…. Must allow end unit to meet the requirements of XYZ specification….” The phrase is important because if purchased under those conditions then if they can lay the blame at your feet you get to pay for making the hardening the component so that the end unit may in fact meet the requirements and you will likely be billed for testing to verify that your improved device does allow for end unit compliance. If it isn’t purchased with such a requirement the end result may be even less agreeable to you. A component that doesn’t allow the end unit to meet its goals is replaced with on that does and not purchased. Bottom line is that I don’t think you have any obligations you may want as a minimum set up tests to determine that an end user won’t run into a problem. Your pretty close to a cable assembly but you actively do things with the signals generated by others. This is the kind of information you get for free ☺ Gary From: John Shinn [mailto:jmsh...@pacbell.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 9:47 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC Required? Scott: I think you are correct, but for the wrong reasons. As I understand your product, it apparently is a small IR detector circuit (board?) which will be sold to an OEM for incorporation into their product such as a TV for use in changing channels, etc.. In all probability, the power for your unit is provided by the OEM, so you unit is sold without a power supply or battery. Therefore, you would not need to have an EMC Certification on the unit itself. However, you may be required to make sure it does not cause the OEM’s product to NOT comply with the applicable EMC Requirements. Hopefully I have described your product and your marketing position sufficiently. Regards, John Shinn, P.E. Retired From: Scott Douglasmailto:sdoug...@radiusnorth.net Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2013 7:43 PM To: Grace Linmailto:graceli...@gmail.com Cc: Bill Owsleymailto:wdows...@yahoo.com ; emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: EMC Required? Grace and Bill, Here is an excerpt from the FCC Rules: 15.3 Definitions (k) Digital device. (Previously defined as a computing device). An unintentional radiator (device or system) that generates and uses timing signals or pulses at a rate in excess of 9,000 pulses (cycles) per second and uses digital techniques; Semantic argument coming. My device previously described does not generate the pulses. It may transform these pulses but does not generate (create) them. Reading the sentence above the operative terms are generates AND uses. And, because of the AND, since we do not generate then it makes no difference if we use the signals. My translation is we do not generate therefore Part 15 does not apply to this specific product. Okay, Kevlar donned, looking for arguments. Best to all, Scott On 7/15/2013 4:38 AM, Grace Lin wrote: Bill and Scott, Since the operating frequency is higher than 9 kHz, FCC Part 15, Subpart B-Unintentional Radiators applies. It is my understanding that an IR device doesn't need certification. I hope this helps. Best regards, Grace Lin On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Bill Owsley wdows...@yahoo.commailto:wdows...@yahoo.com wrote: For the USA, any electrical signal above 9 kHz meets the requirement to be tested. I think we will find similar for the EU. EN 300 330, or 300 440, or something like that. It has power and a switch and generates frequencies above the lower limit - it gets tested. ps. that means the device will need to be activated into its operating condition for testing. But if there is an exclusion list... I'm very interested! From: Scott Douglas sdoug...@radiusnorth.netmailto:sdoug...@radiusnorth.net To: emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 9:47 AM Subject: EMC Required? Hi folks, Consider a simple circuit. IR diode, a transistor or two, some resistors and caps. Receives input from IR remote, converts to electrical and sends down a wire. No clock in the thing so you could call is passive. But does it need EMC testing for US or EU? The IR signal will be in the 35-50 kHz range so pulses down the wire will be the same. Does this make it fit within the realm of EMC required? The device is sold by itself without other products, but is always connected to something else in use. Something else could be a wide variety of anything. I think of it like a stand-alone audio speaker. Purely a passive device that is
Re: [PSES] India ITE approvals
David, No, there is not extension. There is a 90 day extension available for companies who have their products submitted for testing prior to the deadline, but who have not yet received a test report. You must apply for this extension. Jim __ James L. Knighten, Ph.D. EMC Engineer Teradata Corporation 17095 Via Del Campo San Diego, CA 92127 858-485-2537 - phone 858-485-3788 - fax (unattended) -Original Message- From: Gelfand, David [mailto:david.gelf...@ca.kontron.com] Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:20 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] India ITE approvals As of July 3 there is are new mandatory approvals requiring in-country safety testing. Has there been any extension of this date? Could anyone share their experience getting India approvals under this new scheme? Thanks, David David Gelfand Compliance Specialist Kontron Canada Inc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Looking for an alternative to SII in Israel
Photovoltaic inverters and related equipment. Poor service and lousy communications are leading me to consider a move. Any input will be accepted. Regards, Peter L. Tarver This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Looking for an alternative to SII in Israel
Peter, For global PV-related stuff, my best experiences have been with TUV Rheinland. CSA could also be a choice, but am not certain if they have any formal relationship with SII as TUVR does. Regulatory for Southwest Asia, in general, is analogous to a combination of Monty Python Flying Circus and Three Stooges. Think Ministry of Walks with Larry Moe in the tree surgeon episode... Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Peter Tarver Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 11:42 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Looking for an alternative to SII in Israel Photovoltaic inverters and related equipment. Poor service and lousy communications are leading me to consider a move. Any input will be accepted. Regards, Peter L. Tarver - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] India ITE approvals
The latest information for India registration and extension can be found at the following sites: Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS): http://www.bis.org.in/other/ITCompReg.htm Department of Electronics and Information Technology (DeitY), scroll down the page to the Standards section: http://deity.gov.in/content/electronic-hardware Patty Knudsen Product Safety Engineering 17095 Via del Campo San Diego, CA 92127 858-485-3748 -Original Message- From: Knighten, Jim L Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 9:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] India ITE approvals David, No, there is not extension. There is a 90 day extension available for companies who have their products submitted for testing prior to the deadline, but who have not yet received a test report. You must apply for this extension. Jim __ James L. Knighten, Ph.D. EMC Engineer Teradata Corporation 17095 Via Del Campo San Diego, CA 92127 858-485-2537 - phone 858-485-3788 - fax (unattended) -Original Message- From: Gelfand, David [mailto:david.gelf...@ca.kontron.com] Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:20 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] India ITE approvals As of July 3 there is are new mandatory approvals requiring in-country safety testing. Has there been any extension of this date? Could anyone share their experience getting India approvals under this new scheme? Thanks, David David Gelfand Compliance Specialist Kontron Canada Inc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] 60950 1st edition and amendments
Anybody know the Docopocoss (or whatever on that) on IEC 60950-1:2001, First Edition I have a small sale - not large enough to generate the approval fees to 2nd edition and latest amendments. But if the date of cessation et al - hasn't passed we could continue with the sale. My first answer was no to the Marketeers - but I think I'm wrong if the old standard still provides presumption of conformity. Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface Technologies Featuring ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN, LRE MEDICAL, and MEMTRON products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X1XXX Tel: (208) 635-8 Fax: (208) 635-8 www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologieshttp://www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies Technology, Innovation, Performance... Information in or attached to this e-mail message may be subject to export control restrictions of the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) (22 CFR pts. 120-130) or the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) (15 CFR pts. 730-774). Before exporting this information outside the United States or releasing it to a foreign person in the United States, you need to determine whether a license under the EAR or the ITAR is required to do so. If you have any questions about this obligation, please contact me. Click herehttp://www.esterline.com/governance/email_disclaimer/tabid/1532/Default.aspx to read disclaimer - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] 60950 1st edition and amendments
*From:* McInturff, Gary [mailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com] *Sent:* Thursday, July 18, 2013 16:23 Anybody know the Docopocoss (or whatever on that) on IEC 60950-1:2001, First Edition Gary – *EN** *60950-1:2001 lost favor on 1DEC2010. You owe John Woodgate a nickel. Peter Tarver This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] 60950 1st edition and amendments
Assume that this is for the EU/EFTA. CB report to 1st ed can be used a basis for presumption of conformity and application of CE mark if you do a Tech File that would indicate additional test data and/or rationale and/or construction data that indicates why all of the new stuff up to the 2d ed A11 is not applicable for your equipment. There are, of course, several directives that would affect your basis for presumption of conformity. Think risk mitigation. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 4:23 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: 60950 1st edition and amendments Anybody know the Docopocoss (or whatever on that) on IEC 60950-1:2001, First Edition I have a small sale - not large enough to generate the approval fees to 2nd edition and latest amendments. But if the date of cessation et al - hasn't passed we could continue with the sale. My first answer was no to the Marketeers - but I think I'm wrong if the old standard still provides presumption of conformity. Gary McInturff Reliability/Compliance Engineer Esterline Interface TechnologiesFeaturing ADVANCED INPUT, GAMESMAN, LRE MEDICAL, and MEMTRON products 600 W. Wilbur Avenue Coeur d'Alene, ID 83815-9496 Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X1XXX Tel: (208) 635-8 Fax: (208) 635-8 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] Lock washers for bolted bonding connections
Colleagues, Recently I had a conversation with a German colleague who told me that 'star washers', commonly used for making vibration resistant bonding connections in North America, are not permitted for this use in Germany. Only lock washers meeting DIN 6796, commonly called 'Belleville' washers, are accepted. When I pressed him for a standard or a regulation that made that requirement, he was not able to provide one. I know from experience that Bellville washers are superior in performance, and the serrated version will definitely cut through any surface coating to the bare metal substrate. Star washers can usually do this, but they do not provide as uniform a tension on the bolt as a Belleville. Any comments on the regulatory or standards-based source for this requirement? Sent from my iPhone Doug Nix d...@complianceinsight.com Mobile: (519) 729-5704 Office:(519) 650-4753 Fax: (519) 653-1318 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Lock washers for bolted bonding connections
To my knowledge, IEC-based standards do not specify this. If there is a requirement, possibly a local governing entity has required this. Sometimes the national code of a EU member country imposes additional requirements. Continue to challenge the source of these statements, it could be nothing more than an individual's personal preference. DougFrom: Douglas NixSent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:35 PMTo: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGReply To: Douglas NixSubject: [PSES] Lock washers for bolted bonding connectionsColleagues, Recently I had a conversation with a German colleague who told me that 'star washers', commonly used for making vibration resistant bonding connections in North America, are not permitted for this use in Germany. Only lock washers meeting DIN 6796, commonly called 'Belleville' washers, are accepted. When I pressed him for a standard or a regulation that made that requirement, he was not able to provide one. I know from experience that Bellville washers are superior in performance, and the serrated version will definitely cut through any surface coating to the bare metal substrate. Star washers can usually do this, but they do not provide as uniform a tension on the bolt as a Belleville. Any comments on the regulatory or standards-based source for this requirement?Sent from my iPhone Doug Nixd...@complianceinsight.comMobile: (519) 729-5704Office:(519) 650-4753Fax: (519) 653-1318-This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgAll emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.htmlAttachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.htmlList rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.htmlFor help, send mail to the list administrators:Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netMike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgFor policy questions, send mail to:Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.orgDavid Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
