Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

[Knighten, Jim L]

Brian,

The standard does not require a guarantee that the supplier’s products comply 
with the Directive.  It asks for a good faith, due diligence effort in 
assessing the trustworthiness of the supplier’s information through procedures 
you put in place to evaluate the trustworthiness.  These procedures may involve 
some sort of an audit of the supplier’s processes and/or the bases for their 
declarations.

There is a vagueness here.  You must establish procedures and document them so 
they are clearly defined to all in your company.  You must decide if your 
procedures meet the intent of the standard and can be defended if need be 
(i.e., are reasonable).

Jim

__
James L. Knighten, Ph.D.
EMC Engineer
Teradata Corporation
17095 Via Del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127
858-485-2537 – phone
858-485-3788 – fax (unattended)


From: Mark Schmidt [mailto:mark.schm...@dornerworks.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 1:04 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

Brian,

May I be candid here. A local hardware store in the USA is not going to have 
traceability to RoHS compliance. It is highly likely they won’t even know what 
it is. Testing is way too expensive and time consuming, I would even go as far 
to say it’s unreliable as well. Procurement from a larger supplier just means 
that they have more people to generate Declarations and make claims about RoHS 
in an attempt to sell more hardware. Maybe if they print a pretty green leaf or 
some type of RoHS logo next to the part in their catalog it make it even more 
believable. My point here is until the industry (globally) moves to eliminate 
the use and no longer support the use of these hazardous substances called out 
in RoHS, you will never know for sure if it is compliant or not.
I do believe that if your internal people try to attain a declaration and 
possibly a test report that will suffice on the behalf of Due Diligence in the 
legal sense. The reality is you will never know for sure if it is RoHS 
compliant from batch to batch or supplier to supplier but having a declaration 
may allow you to sleep better at night.

Regards,
Mark

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 3:25 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

Jim,

This is exactly the motivation behind my original email.

How can the trustworthiness of a supplier be evaluated without testing? In a 
long supply chain it only takes one buyer to mess up the batch. And the larger 
distributor companies buy from the largest number of suppliers making the odds 
of an error along the chain even greater.

I think our internal RoHS people get so frustrated at times they think that 
they must be missing something and feel other companies must know something 
that we don’t that would make the entire process much easier.

Thanks,
Brian


From: Knighten, Jim L [mailto:jim.knigh...@teradata.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 2:35 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: RoHS on Hardware

Brian,

There is a harmonized standard (EN 50581:2012 )now to accompany the RoHS 
Directive.  Complying with the standard provides you with the legal presumption 
of compliance with the RoHS Directive.  The standard requires you to (a) 
collect information on the RoHS compliance of your nuts, bolts, washers, etc., 
but also to establish procedures to evaluate the trustworthiness of the 
information you collect.  I think this will be difficult to do if you are 
purchasing parts from your local hardware store.  A larger supplier will 
probably be able to supply a declaration regarding RoHS and can provide you a 
path to travel to evaluate the trustworthiness of the declarations.

Jim

__
James L. Knighten, Ph.D.
EMC Engineer
Teradata Corporation
17095 Via Del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127
858-485-2537 – phone
858-485-3788 – fax (unattended)

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 6:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

Our internal people working on and maintaining RoHS compliance are having a 
very difficult time getting the cooperation we need from our Hardware suppliers 
(nuts, bolts, washers, etc.).  Our company manufacturers a relatively small 
quantity of products so it is impossible for us to purchase hardware direct 
from the manufacturer or their distribution. In fact, some of our “specialty 
hardware” has such a long supply chain in most cases we cannot even find out 
who made the part.

As an example, for some parts, we might go over to our local Ace hardware store 
and buy a handful of parts which will last us two years worth of production.

So here is the problem; with such long supply chains we are having a very 
difficult time getting RoHS supporting documentation for such hardwar

Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

[Mark Schmidt]

Brian,

May I be candid here. A local hardware store in the USA is not going to have 
traceability to RoHS compliance. It is highly likely they won’t even know what 
it is. Testing is way too expensive and time consuming, I would even go as far 
to say it’s unreliable as well. Procurement from a larger supplier just means 
that they have more people to generate Declarations and make claims about RoHS 
in an attempt to sell more hardware. Maybe if they print a pretty green leaf or 
some type of RoHS logo next to the part in their catalog it make it even more 
believable. My point here is until the industry (globally) moves to eliminate 
the use and no longer support the use of these hazardous substances called out 
in RoHS, you will never know for sure if it is compliant or not.
I do believe that if your internal people try to attain a declaration and 
possibly a test report that will suffice on the behalf of Due Diligence in the 
legal sense. The reality is you will never know for sure if it is RoHS 
compliant from batch to batch or supplier to supplier but having a declaration 
may allow you to sleep better at night.

Regards,
Mark

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 3:25 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

Jim,

This is exactly the motivation behind my original email.

How can the trustworthiness of a supplier be evaluated without testing? In a 
long supply chain it only takes one buyer to mess up the batch. And the larger 
distributor companies buy from the largest number of suppliers making the odds 
of an error along the chain even greater.

I think our internal RoHS people get so frustrated at times they think that 
they must be missing something and feel other companies must know something 
that we don’t that would make the entire process much easier.

Thanks,
Brian


From: Knighten, Jim L [mailto:jim.knigh...@teradata.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 2:35 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: RoHS on Hardware

Brian,

There is a harmonized standard (EN 50581:2012 )now to accompany the RoHS 
Directive.  Complying with the standard provides you with the legal presumption 
of compliance with the RoHS Directive.  The standard requires you to (a) 
collect information on the RoHS compliance of your nuts, bolts, washers, etc., 
but also to establish procedures to evaluate the trustworthiness of the 
information you collect.  I think this will be difficult to do if you are 
purchasing parts from your local hardware store.  A larger supplier will 
probably be able to supply a declaration regarding RoHS and can provide you a 
path to travel to evaluate the trustworthiness of the declarations.

Jim

__
James L. Knighten, Ph.D.
EMC Engineer
Teradata Corporation
17095 Via Del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127
858-485-2537 – phone
858-485-3788 – fax (unattended)

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 6:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

Our internal people working on and maintaining RoHS compliance are having a 
very difficult time getting the cooperation we need from our Hardware suppliers 
(nuts, bolts, washers, etc.).  Our company manufacturers a relatively small 
quantity of products so it is impossible for us to purchase hardware direct 
from the manufacturer or their distribution. In fact, some of our “specialty 
hardware” has such a long supply chain in most cases we cannot even find out 
who made the part.

As an example, for some parts, we might go over to our local Ace hardware store 
and buy a handful of parts which will last us two years worth of production.

So here is the problem; with such long supply chains we are having a very 
difficult time getting RoHS supporting documentation for such hardware. So any 
advice or options would be most appreciated. What are other companies out there 
doing in such cases?

Being an EMC/Safety guy I really do not have much knowledge in all the 
procurement stuff, however, would it be a practical option to periodically pull 
a small sample of all such parts and have them tested for RoHS?

Any other suggestions?

Thank you,

The Other Brian

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 

Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

[Kunde, Brian]

Jim,

This is exactly the motivation behind my original email.

How can the trustworthiness of a supplier be evaluated without testing? In a 
long supply chain it only takes one buyer to mess up the batch. And the larger 
distributor companies buy from the largest number of suppliers making the odds 
of an error along the chain even greater.

I think our internal RoHS people get so frustrated at times they think that 
they must be missing something and feel other companies must know something 
that we don’t that would make the entire process much easier.

Thanks,
Brian


From: Knighten, Jim L [mailto:jim.knigh...@teradata.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 2:35 PM
To: Kunde, Brian; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: RoHS on Hardware

Brian,

There is a harmonized standard (EN 50581:2012 )now to accompany the RoHS 
Directive.  Complying with the standard provides you with the legal presumption 
of compliance with the RoHS Directive.  The standard requires you to (a) 
collect information on the RoHS compliance of your nuts, bolts, washers, etc., 
but also to establish procedures to evaluate the trustworthiness of the 
information you collect.  I think this will be difficult to do if you are 
purchasing parts from your local hardware store.  A larger supplier will 
probably be able to supply a declaration regarding RoHS and can provide you a 
path to travel to evaluate the trustworthiness of the declarations.

Jim

__
James L. Knighten, Ph.D.
EMC Engineer
Teradata Corporation
17095 Via Del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127
858-485-2537 – phone
858-485-3788 – fax (unattended)

From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 6:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

Our internal people working on and maintaining RoHS compliance are having a 
very difficult time getting the cooperation we need from our Hardware suppliers 
(nuts, bolts, washers, etc.).  Our company manufacturers a relatively small 
quantity of products so it is impossible for us to purchase hardware direct 
from the manufacturer or their distribution. In fact, some of our “specialty 
hardware” has such a long supply chain in most cases we cannot even find out 
who made the part.

As an example, for some parts, we might go over to our local Ace hardware store 
and buy a handful of parts which will last us two years worth of production.

So here is the problem; with such long supply chains we are having a very 
difficult time getting RoHS supporting documentation for such hardware. So any 
advice or options would be most appreciated. What are other companies out there 
doing in such cases?

Being an EMC/Safety guy I really do not have much knowledge in all the 
procurement stuff, however, would it be a practical option to periodically pull 
a small sample of all such parts and have them tested for RoHS?

Any other suggestions?

Thank you,

The Other Brian

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>>
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>


LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pse

Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

[Mike Sherman ----- Original Message -----]

Based on a year of spot XRF testing hardware procured from a supplier with a 
pretty good RoHS program in place: 
1. Zinc with clear chromate is low risk. 
2. Yellow chromate traditionally is hexavalent chromium and therefore verboten 
under RoHS. 
3. Black chromate may or may not be RoHS compliant; no simple way to test. 
4. Black oxide is low risk. 
5. Cadmium can be a duller finish and can be easily tested with a drop of (I 
forget the specific chemistry) acid. We found more cadmium plating than we were 
expecting. 


Mike Sherman 
Graco Inc. 
Product Safety and Compliance Engineer 

- Original Message -
From: "Anthony Thomson"  
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 9:40:05 AM 
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware 

Could you purchase parts from the UK or Europe? RoHS is pretty much the 'norm' 
in Europe and the small volume distribution companies like RS, Farnell and 
many, many others now sell only (well, mostly) RoHS compliant product, while 
declaring the RoHS status of products in their catalogues/web sites. 

Drop me an email if your need supplier suggestions for specific parts. 

Just a thought. 

Tony 





- Original Message - 

From: Kunde, Brian 

Sent: 05/14/14 02:09 PM 

To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 

Subject: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware 



Our internal people working on and maintaining RoHS compliance are having a 
very difficult time getting the cooperation we need from our Hardware suppliers 
(nuts, bolts, washers, etc.). Our company manufacturers a relatively small 
quantity of products so it is impossible for us to purchase hardware direct 
from the manufacturer or their distribution. In fact, some of our “specialty 
hardware” has such a long supply chain in most cases we cannot even find out 
who made the part. 



As an example, for some parts, we might go over to our local Ace hardware store 
and buy a handful of parts which will last us two years worth of production. 



So here is the problem; with such long supply chains we are having a very 
difficult time getting RoHS supporting documentation for such hardware. So any 
advice or options would be most appreciated. What are other companies out there 
doing in such cases? 



Being an EMC/Safety guy I really do not have much knowledge in all the 
procurement stuff, however, would it be a practical option to periodically pull 
a small sample of all such parts and have them tested for RoHS? 



Any other suggestions? 



Thank you, 



The Other Brian 
LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. 



- 
 

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < 
emc-p...@ieee.org > 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc. 

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators: 
Scott Douglas < emcp...@radiusnorth.net > 
Mike Cantwell < mcantw...@ieee.org > 

For policy questions, send mail to: 
Jim Bacher < j.bac...@ieee.org > 
David Heald < dhe...@gmail.com > 



- 
 


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < 
emc-p...@ieee.org > 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc. 

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 

For help, send mail to the list administrators: 
Scott Douglas < emcp...@radiusnorth.net > 
Mike Cantwell < mcantw...@ieee.org > 

For policy questions, send mail to: 
Jim Bacher < j.bac...@ieee.org > 
David Heald < dhe...@gmail.com >

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at

Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

[Knighten, Jim L]

Brian,

There is a harmonized standard (EN 50581:2012 )now to accompany the RoHS 
Directive.  Complying with the standard provides you with the legal presumption 
of compliance with the RoHS Directive.  The standard requires you to (a) 
collect information on the RoHS compliance of your nuts, bolts, washers, etc., 
but also to establish procedures to evaluate the trustworthiness of the 
information you collect.  I think this will be difficult to do if you are 
purchasing parts from your local hardware store.  A larger supplier will 
probably be able to supply a declaration regarding RoHS and can provide you a 
path to travel to evaluate the trustworthiness of the declarations.

Jim

__
James L. Knighten, Ph.D.
EMC Engineer
Teradata Corporation
17095 Via Del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127
858-485-2537 – phone
858-485-3788 – fax (unattended)


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 6:10 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

Our internal people working on and maintaining RoHS compliance are having a 
very difficult time getting the cooperation we need from our Hardware suppliers 
(nuts, bolts, washers, etc.).  Our company manufacturers a relatively small 
quantity of products so it is impossible for us to purchase hardware direct 
from the manufacturer or their distribution. In fact, some of our “specialty 
hardware” has such a long supply chain in most cases we cannot even find out 
who made the part.

As an example, for some parts, we might go over to our local Ace hardware store 
and buy a handful of parts which will last us two years worth of production.

So here is the problem; with such long supply chains we are having a very 
difficult time getting RoHS supporting documentation for such hardware. So any 
advice or options would be most appreciated. What are other companies out there 
doing in such cases?

Being an EMC/Safety guy I really do not have much knowledge in all the 
procurement stuff, however, would it be a practical option to periodically pull 
a small sample of all such parts and have them tested for RoHS?

Any other suggestions?

Thank you,

The Other Brian

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.
-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net>>
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] Job Opening for EMC Test Engineer or Technician in San Diego

[Knighten, Jim L]

Teradata Labs in San Diego has an immediate opening for a test technician or 
engineer to serve in a role in EMC testing in a lab performing compliance 
testing for FCC, CISPR 22 and 24.  A minimum of three years of experience is 
preferred, but not a requirement.

Applications are to be submitted online.  I will supply the URL and the Job 
Req. number to any who lets me know they are interested.

Jim

__

James L. Knighten, Ph.D.
EMC Engineer
Teradata Corporation
17095 Via Del Campo
San Diego, CA 92127

858-485-2537 - phone
858-485-3788 - fax (unattended)







-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

[Anthony Thomson]

Could you purchase parts from the UK or Europe? RoHS is pretty much the 'norm' 
in Europe and the small volume distribution companies like RS, Farnell and 
many, many others now sell only (well, mostly) RoHS compliant product, while 
declaring the RoHS status of products in their catalogues/web sites.

Drop me an email if your need supplier suggestions for specific parts.

Just a thought.

Tony
- Original Message -
From: Kunde, Brian
Sent: 05/14/14 02:09 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

Our internal people working on and maintaining RoHS compliance are having a 
very difficult time getting the cooperation we need from our Hardware suppliers 
(nuts, bolts, washers, etc.). Our company manufacturers a relatively small 
quantity of products so it is impossible for us to purchase hardware direct 
from the manufacturer or their distribution. In fact, some of our “specialty 
hardware” has such a long supply chain in most cases we cannot even find out 
who made the part. 
As an example, for some parts, we might go over to our local Ace hardware store 
and buy a handful of parts which will last us two years worth of production. 
So here is the problem; with such long supply chains we are having a very 
difficult time getting RoHS supporting documentation for such hardware. So any 
advice or options would be most appreciated. What are other companies out there 
doing in such cases?
Being an EMC/Safety guy I really do not have much knowledge in all the 
procurement stuff, however, would it be a practical option to periodically pull 
a small sample of all such parts and have them tested for RoHS? 
Any other suggestions?
Thank you,
The Other Brian
-
 *LECO Corporation Notice:* This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < 
emc-p...@ieee.org >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/  can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ 
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas < emcp...@radiusnorth.net >
Mike Cantwell < mcantw...@ieee.org >
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher < j.bac...@ieee.org >
David Heald < dhe...@gmail.com >

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

[Doug Powell]

I have heard of mfgs using XRF guns to inspect their incoming stock. However 
this is generally not accepted as a initial qualification, only to validate 
incoming material as an A / B comparison. RoHS still requires a ppm assessment 
after breaking down to homogeneous ‎levels.  

Here in the USA, I suggest eliminating the trips to the local hardware store 
and buy from a distributor such as Grainger, McMaster, Hardware Specialty or 
others. They are all beginning ear marking parts for their RoHS compliance and 
sell in affordable quantites.

This will require a little discipline in a small business. I know how it is, 
trying to keep minimum stocking quantities low and having those days where you 
suddenly realize you are about to run out of a certain item that normally costs 
pennies.  ‎Establishing an inventory system may be required where you track 
usage, ordering lead time by supplier, identify minimum order quantities, 
calculate ordering points,  etc. I know more than a few who do this solely in 
spreadsheets. 



Thanks, - doug

Douglas Powell
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01  
  Original Message  
From: John Woodgate
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2014 7:29 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Reply To: John Woodgate
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

In message 
<64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026954D2@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local>, 
dated Wed, 14 May 2014, "Kunde, Brian"  writes:

> In fact, some of our “specialty hardware” has such a long supply 
>chain in most cases we cannot even find out who made the part.
>
> 
>
>As an example, for some parts, we might go over to our local Ace 
>hardware store and buy a handful of parts which will last us two years 
>worth of production.
>
No doubt those two scenarios apply to different parts. For parts you can 
get from the hardware store, you can probably get them from Mouser or 
so, with RoHS. For other parts, there may be no alternative to switch to 
a local jobbing supplier who can certify RoHS.
> 
>
>So here is the problem; with such long supply chains we are having a 
>very difficult time getting RoHS supporting documentation for such 
>hardware. So any advice or options would be most appreciated. What are 
>other companies out there doing in such cases?

There is a lot of advice to SMEs about this available in Europe, but I 
don't know about elsewhere.
>
> 
>
>Being an EMC/Safety guy I really do not have much knowledge in all the 
>procurement stuff, however, would it be a practical option to 
>periodically pull a small sample of all such parts and have them tested 
>for RoHS?

Option of last resort, probably, unless the part can be analysed by one 
of the clever new rapid methods, which may not be prohibitively costly.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Nondum ex silvis sumus
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher: 
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] RoHS on Hardware

[John Woodgate]

In message 
<64D32EE8B9CBDD44963ACB076A5F6ABB026954D2@Mailbox-Tech.lecotech.local>, 
dated Wed, 14 May 2014, "Kunde, Brian"  writes:


In fact, some of our “specialty hardware” has such a long supply 
chain in most cases we cannot even find out who made the part.


 

As an example, for some parts, we might go over to our local Ace 
hardware store and buy a handful of parts which will last us two years 
worth of production.


No doubt those two scenarios apply to different parts. For parts you can 
get from the hardware store, you can probably get them from Mouser or 
so, with RoHS. For other parts, there may be no alternative to switch to 
a local jobbing supplier who can certify RoHS.

 

So here is the problem; with such long supply chains we are having a 
very difficult time getting RoHS supporting documentation for such 
hardware. So any advice or options would be most appreciated. What are 
other companies out there doing in such cases?


There is a lot of advice to SMEs about this available in Europe, but I 
don't know about elsewhere.


 

Being an EMC/Safety guy I really do not have much knowledge in all the 
procurement stuff, however, would it be a practical option to 
periodically pull a small sample of all such parts and have them tested 
for RoHS?


Option of last resort, probably, unless the part can be analysed by one 
of the clever new rapid methods, which may not be prohibitively costly.

--
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Nondum ex silvis sumus
John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

[PSES] RoHS on Hardware

[Kunde, Brian]

Our internal people working on and maintaining RoHS compliance are having a 
very difficult time getting the cooperation we need from our Hardware suppliers 
(nuts, bolts, washers, etc.).  Our company manufacturers a relatively small 
quantity of products so it is impossible for us to purchase hardware direct 
from the manufacturer or their distribution. In fact, some of our “specialty 
hardware” has such a long supply chain in most cases we cannot even find out 
who made the part.

As an example, for some parts, we might go over to our local Ace hardware store 
and buy a handful of parts which will last us two years worth of production.

So here is the problem; with such long supply chains we are having a very 
difficult time getting RoHS supporting documentation for such hardware. So any 
advice or options would be most appreciated. What are other companies out there 
doing in such cases?

Being an EMC/Safety guy I really do not have much knowledge in all the 
procurement stuff, however, would it be a practical option to periodically pull 
a small sample of all such parts and have them tested for RoHS?

Any other suggestions?

Thank you,

The Other Brian

LECO Corporation Notice: This communication may contain confidential 
information intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by 
mistake, please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] quiet HDMI source

[Anthony Thomson]

You could try building one?

$30/40 video player from eBay, about the size of a cigarette pack, plays full 
HD video from SD/USB memory cards/sticks. High quality panel mounting HDMI 
screened socket (used in AV installations) with a short interconnect to the 
player. Good old fashioned 5V linear power supply with good decoupling (or 5V 
regulator & car battery) via a screened and filtered low voltage power 
connector. All boxed in a small RF die-cast enclosure and connected using a 
high quality screened HDMI cable.

T

- Original Message -
From: Brent G DeWitt
Sent: 05/11/14 12:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] quiet HDMI source

Does anyone have a recommendation for a quiet 1080p HDMI source for radiated 
emissions testing? The blu-ray players and simulators we are currently using 
are a mess, along with a bunch of less than well constructed HDMI cable. 
Positive experiences appreciated! Brent DeWitt Milford, MA - 
 This message 
is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 
To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to  All 
emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the 
IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can 
be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html 
(including how to unsubscribe) List rules: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to!
  the list administrators: Scott Douglas  Mike 
Cantwell  For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: 
 David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] quiet HDMI source

[Pawson, James]

Hi Brent,
Even HDMI test sources like Quantum Data or Agilent machines are noisy and/or 
have average signal quality.
Your cables will be a significant factor, expensive =/= well shielded. But it 
sounds like you know this already.
Shopping around and doing lots of testing would probably be your best bet. 
Physically small HDMI sources will be more cost effective to totally screen.
Best of luck. In my experience you will need some.
James


-Original Message-
From: Brent G DeWitt [mailto:bdew...@ix.netcom.com] 
Sent: 11 May 2014 00:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] quiet HDMI source

Does anyone have a recommendation for a quiet 1080p HDMI source for radiated 
emissions testing?  The blu-ray players and simulators we are currently using 
are a mess, along with a bunch of less than well constructed HDMI cable.

Positive experiences appreciated!

Brent DeWitt
Milford, MA

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: