Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
In message 1f28.6030...@gmail.com, dated Thu, 14 May 2015, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com writes: My question is this. If the RF generated inside the oven does not stop prior to the opening of the RF seal on the door, which testing is responsible to identify this problem, EMC or the Safety testing Not 'either/or': emission with the door open violates CISPR 11/EN 55011, it's also a violation of the Section of IEC/EN 60335-2 (too late here to look it up) and potentially a violation of the regulatory EMF exposure limits as measured according to IEC 62233. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
In message blupr02mb1162688d885f918f36748fdc1...@blupr02mb116.namprd02.prod.outlook .com, dated Thu, 14 May 2015, Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com writes: Think that CISPR32 is supposed to address very short-term stuff, but since is not recurring and periodic, would a few hundred mSec affect test limits? CISPR 32 doesn't apply to microwave ovens: CISPR 11 applies. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
This isn't a particularly helpful contribution, but when I use my microwave (used correctly, with the door closed), my Bluetooth speaker completely stops working and any WiFi activity grinds to a halt. I try to keep the kids away from the microwave when it's in use, as much as I can. Michael. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: 14 May 2015 23:42 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 1f28.6030...@gmail.com, dated Thu, 14 May 2015, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com writes: My question is this. If the RF generated inside the oven does not stop prior to the opening of the RF seal on the door, which testing is responsible to identify this problem, EMC or the Safety testing Not 'either/or': emission with the door open violates CISPR 11/EN 55011, it's also a violation of the Section of IEC/EN 60335-2 (too late here to look it up) and potentially a violation of the regulatory EMF exposure limits as measured according to IEC 62233. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] [External] Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
IEC/EN 60335-2-25 and IEC/EN 60335-2-90 have limits on the radiation emitted from the microwave with the door open. This includes testing with the seal broken and the door closed, when possible. The limits are pretty strict so I would be a little surprised by this. I haven’t read the article, nor do I know the history of the standard so there maybe something there too. Josh -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 5:42 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [External] Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 1f28.6030...@gmail.com, dated Thu, 14 May 2015, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com writes: My question is this. If the RF generated inside the oven does not stop prior to the opening of the RF seal on the door, which testing is responsible to identify this problem, EMC or the Safety testing Not 'either/or': emission with the door open violates CISPR 11/EN 55011, it's also a violation of the Section of IEC/EN 60335-2 (too late here to look it up) and potentially a violation of the regulatory EMF exposure limits as measured according to IEC 62233. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] [External] Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
It's possible the noise quite soon after the door is opened is still below the limit for unintentional or incidental emitters. That's enough to interfere with radiotelescopes. Cortland Richmond -Original Message- From: Wiseman, Joshua E BIS joshua.e.wise...@carrier.utc.com Sent: May 15, 2015 8:55 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] [External] Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven IEC/EN 60335-2-25 and IEC/EN 60335-2-90 have limits on the radiation emitted from the microwave with the door open. This includes testing with the seal broken and the door closed, when possible. The limits are pretty strict so I would be a little surprised by this. I haven’t read the article, nor do I know the history of the standard so there maybe something there too. Josh -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 5:42 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [External] Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 1f28.6030...@gmail.com, dated Thu, 14 May 2015, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com writes: My question is this. If the RF generated inside the oven does not stop prior to the opening of the RF seal on the door, which testing is responsible to identify this problem, EMC or the Safety testing Not 'either/or': emission with the door open violates CISPR 11/EN 55011, it's also a violation of the Section of IEC/EN 60335-2 (too late here to look it up) and potentially a violation of the regulatory EMF exposure limits as measured according to IEC 62233. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
In message 001001d08f24$621e6c60$265b4520$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: The solution to that is simple - get a new microwave but don't buy the same brand. :) What is the Bayesian probability that the new brand will be worse? (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
The solution to that is simple - get a new microwave but don't buy the same brand. :) Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Michael Derby [mailto:micha...@acbcert.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:02 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven This isn't a particularly helpful contribution, but when I use my microwave (used correctly, with the door closed), my Bluetooth speaker completely stops working and any WiFi activity grinds to a halt. I try to keep the kids away from the microwave when it's in use, as much as I can. Michael. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: 14 May 2015 23:42 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 1f28.6030...@gmail.com, dated Thu, 14 May 2015, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com writes: My question is this. If the RF generated inside the oven does not stop prior to the opening of the RF seal on the door, which testing is responsible to identify this problem, EMC or the Safety testing Not 'either/or': emission with the door open violates CISPR 11/EN 55011, it's also a violation of the Section of IEC/EN 60335-2 (too late here to look it up) and potentially a violation of the regulatory EMF exposure limits as measured according to IEC 62233. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
I was wondering the same regarding “capacitor hold-up” keeping the magnetron working for up to a half sine. As for the radio astronomy frequency allocations, here is the internationally recognized list: http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/radioastro-frequencieslist.htm http://www.ukaranet.org.uk/basics/frequency_allocation.htm Note that there is a band from 2655 to 2690 MHz and another from 2690 to 2700 MHz. Microwave ovens operate nominally at 2.45 GHz. However if you actually look at the spectrum when the oven is on, you’ll observe it uses much (maybe more?) of the 2.4 to 2.5 GHz ISM band. Conceivably, the signals could slop over to the nearest astronomy band. You’ll see this on the last page of my article on wireless interference: http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/3/Wi-Fi-network-interference--analysis--and-optimization http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/3/Wi-Fi-network-interference--analysis--and-optimization The real time spectrum analyzer used (Tek RSA306) only had a RT bandwidth of 40 MHz, so much of the signal lies off the chart”. It’s interesting to note that the frozen capture of the instantaneous signal (orange line) clearly shows the pulsed 16 ms periodicity of the half-wave rectifier in the magnetron power supply. Ken ___ Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services, Inc. 56 Aspen Dr. Woodland Park, CO Phone: (719) 310-5418 Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/ The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt On May 15, 2015, at 4:09 PM, Ed Price edpr...@cox.net wrote: Interestingly, many news sources quote the oven emission as “1.4 GHz” which is very unlikely for a consumer oven. They didn’t mention if the telescope was being used in the 2.4 GHz band (again unlikely), so I wonder if the telescope was being overloaded by the out-of-band 2.4 GHz oven fundamental, if the oven harmonics were to blame or if the telescope data-processing equipment was actually the victim. One story at least admitted that researchers were suspicious of the signals, as they only were a problem during “working hours.” - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] UL HTTPS
Yes sir, that is what members have said (off line), so looked at what DNS was resolving too and noticed several jumps' for the IP for a given URL (one poor soul said that he had a 50% 'fail' getting into the CDA). Many thanks to the members that responded on and off line. Long live the emperor, and hail to the hostess with the mostess, and other such stuff. Brian -Original Message- From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 3:58 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] UL HTTPS UL recently changed a number of URLs and other items, probably as a matter normal churn. Several bookmarks no longer worked. This is probably a related thing that they'll work through in time. Regards, Peter Tarver -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:39 Anyone know what is with UL's CDA site? Seems to have lost the secure connect for last several days. The pages seem only partially encrypted or perhaps mixed scripts, but cannot detect anything using inspect mode on browser. Hopefully they just need to renew cert. Sent email to them several days past - no response. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Accreditation for standard comprehension?
ISO 17025 (General requirements for the competence of testing and calibration laboratories) has some requirements related to knowing what you’re doing. Regards, Peter Tarver *From:* Brian Gregory [mailto:brian_greg...@netzero.net] *Sent:* Wednesday, May 13, 2015 11:30 *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject:* Re: [PSES] Accreditation for standard comprehension? The only ones that come to mind are ISO audits, and the contractual requirements between you entity and the NRTL/NB you engage to provide your certifications. These only require that you possess the standard in question and employees can locate it when necessary, thereby establishing familiarity. None that I know require any demonstration of competence. NRTL's must establish competence, and adequacy of their facilities, to their auditors. Colorado Brian -- Original Message -- From: Crane, Lauren lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Accreditation for standard comprehension? Date: Mon, 11 May 2015 23:15:53 + Does anyone know of any conformance assessor certification schemes that have provisions requiring the applicant to demonstrate familiarity with the standards to which they will be assessing? I am familiar with a couple lab certification schemes that appear to focus on general business practices and professional qualifications and rigor of assessment, but not necessarily needing to demonstrate the assessor knows well what the standard requires. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] UL HTTPS
UL recently changed a number of URLs and other items, probably as a matter normal churn. Several bookmarks no longer worked. This is probably a related thing that they'll work through in time. Regards, Peter Tarver -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:39 Anyone know what is with UL's CDA site? Seems to have lost the secure connect for last several days. The pages seem only partially encrypted or perhaps mixed scripts, but cannot detect anything using inspect mode on browser. Hopefully they just need to renew cert. Sent email to them several days past - no response. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
One-half sine wave is 8/10 ms, and even that seems like a lot of hold-up time for an HV capacitor and several hundred Watts dissipated. Even at 8 ms, the time between depressing the switch and opening the door is going to be longer than that. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Ed Price edpr...@cox.net Reply-To: Ed Price edpr...@cox.net Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 15:09:57 -0700 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Old microwave ovens (like the one from 1988) were electrically quite simple; a relay applied AC power to a step-up transformer, and the secondary output was grounded (one side) and connected to a diode (other side). The diode allowed a low-capacitance HV capacitor to charge and the magnetron to produce RF output. It was a simple half-wave rectifier circuit. When the door safety switch open, the relay would drop out (anywhere along the AC sinewave), and the magnetron would continue to produce RF until the capacitor voltage dropped below the minimum magnetron ³excitation² voltage. I can¹t recall magnetron current nor the capacitor size, but the decay was ³pretty darn fast.² I wonder if the capacitor was large enough to sustain RF output through the negative half of the AC power? So, although electrical shut-down was quick, you have to take slack in the door safety switch mechanism into consideration. Best if the switch was linked to a safety latch, but not so good if the switch was sensing door position. New microwave ovens, more computer than appliance, and with a switching power supply, might have a larger HV capacitor, and thus longer decay time when being shut down. People who have built their own ham gear or have built lab equipment such as pulse generators, know the hazards of HV and interlock systems, but when your whole experience is built around 5 3.3 VDC equipment, RF door leakage may come as a big surprise. I think EMC engineers would be aware of this, but the issue is much more under the domain of safety. If nothing else, an EMC engineer should flag this to the safety guy for proper evaluation. Interestingly, many news sources quote the oven emission as ³1.4 GHz² which is very unlikely for a consumer oven. They didn¹t mention if the telescope was being used in the 2.4 GHz band (again unlikely), so I wonder if the telescope was being overloaded by the out-of-band 2.4 GHz oven fundamental, if the oven harmonics were to blame or if the telescope data-processing equipment was actually the victim. One story at least admitted that researchers were suspicious of the signals, as they only were a problem during ³working hours.² Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 8:55 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Hi All, I recently wrote an article on wireless interference, with microwave ovens being one source of that interference. Fortunately, the use cycle of microwave ovens is relatively short, so any interference is short-term. However, any leakage is certainly an issue for those standing nearby - maybe listening to popcorn, etc.? http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/Wi-Fi-network-inte rference--analysis--and-optimization In this article, I show a real-time spectral plot of microwave oven leakage at 12 inch distance from the oven. The peaks were around -20 dBm using a short ³rubber duck² antenna on the Tek RSA306 analyzer. The leakage limit is 1 mW/cm^2 with a test load (water) and 5 mW/cm^2 without a test load (measured at 5 cm from the oven surface). I measured mine just now at 0.1 mW/cm^2 loaded and 0.5 mW/cm^2 unloaded. The Australian Government did a study on the subject in 2004 and includes some interesting background on the door interlock designs: http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf Health Canada also did a survey of several new and used microwave ovens in the Ottawa area: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/radiation/microwave_ovens-micro_ondes/i ndex-eng.php Cheers, Ken ___ Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services, Inc. 56 Aspen Dr. Woodland Park, CO Phone: (719) 310-5418 Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site http://www.emc-seminars.com | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/ The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt On May 15, 2015, at 9:00 AM, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote: My microwave oven used correctly interferes with wi-fi and Bluetooth, but with blue tooth if I bring the devices close together I can overpower the incidental oven radiation, right next to the oven. I can't do that with wi-fi at home, because of the fixed location of the wi-fi base station at the other end of the house from the oven.
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
I would have thought that the output cap on a switcher would be smaller than the cap for rectified ac line, just due to what it takes to deliver the same amount of ripple potential. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 16:43:36 -0700 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Conversation: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven One-half sine wave is 8/10 ms, and even that seems like a lot of hold-up time for an HV capacitor and several hundred Watts dissipated. Even at 8 ms, the time between depressing the switch and opening the door is going to be longer than that. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Ed Price edpr...@cox.net Reply-To: Ed Price edpr...@cox.net Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 15:09:57 -0700 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Old microwave ovens (like the one from 1988) were electrically quite simple; a relay applied AC power to a step-up transformer, and the secondary output was grounded (one side) and connected to a diode (other side). The diode allowed a low-capacitance HV capacitor to charge and the magnetron to produce RF output. It was a simple half-wave rectifier circuit. When the door safety switch open, the relay would drop out (anywhere along the AC sinewave), and the magnetron would continue to produce RF until the capacitor voltage dropped below the minimum magnetron ³excitation² voltage. I can¹t recall magnetron current nor the capacitor size, but the decay was ³pretty darn fast.² I wonder if the capacitor was large enough to sustain RF output through the negative half of the AC power? So, although electrical shut-down was quick, you have to take slack in the door safety switch mechanism into consideration. Best if the switch was linked to a safety latch, but not so good if the switch was sensing door position. New microwave ovens, more computer than appliance, and with a switching power supply, might have a larger HV capacitor, and thus longer decay time when being shut down. People who have built their own ham gear or have built lab equipment such as pulse generators, know the hazards of HV and interlock systems, but when your whole experience is built around 5 3.3 VDC equipment, RF door leakage may come as a big surprise. I think EMC engineers would be aware of this, but the issue is much more under the domain of safety. If nothing else, an EMC engineer should flag this to the safety guy for proper evaluation. Interestingly, many news sources quote the oven emission as ³1.4 GHz² which is very unlikely for a consumer oven. They didn¹t mention if the telescope was being used in the 2.4 GHz band (again unlikely), so I wonder if the telescope was being overloaded by the out-of-band 2.4 GHz oven fundamental, if the oven harmonics were to blame or if the telescope data-processing equipment was actually the victim. One story at least admitted that researchers were suspicious of the signals, as they only were a problem during ³working hours.² Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 8:55 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Hi All, I recently wrote an article on wireless interference, with microwave ovens being one source of that interference. Fortunately, the use cycle of microwave ovens is relatively short, so any interference is short-term. However, any leakage is certainly an issue for those standing nearby - maybe listening to popcorn, etc.? http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/Wi-Fi-network-inte rference--analysis--and-optimization In this article, I show a real-time spectral plot of microwave oven leakage at 12 inch distance from the oven. The peaks were around -20 dBm using a short ³rubber duck² antenna on the Tek RSA306 analyzer. The leakage limit is 1 mW/cm^2 with a test load (water) and 5 mW/cm^2 without a test load (measured at 5 cm from the oven surface). I measured mine just now at 0.1 mW/cm^2 loaded and 0.5 mW/cm^2 unloaded. The Australian Government did a study on the subject in 2004 and includes some interesting background on the door interlock designs: http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf Health Canada also did a survey of several new and used microwave ovens in the Ottawa area: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/radiation/microwave_ovens-micro_ondes/i ndex-eng.php Cheers, Ken ___ Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services, Inc. 56 Aspen Dr. Woodland Park, CO Phone: (719) 310-5418 Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site http://www.emc-seminars.com | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/ The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html Connect with me on LinkedIn
Re: [PSES] EMC and Data Center
Monrad: My idea of treating the data center as one big box seems to be consistent from an engineering viewpoint, but may not be acceptable to the lawyers who approve the work. It seems to me that, once you establish that you have a bi-directional loss of maybe 100 dB due to a shielded enclosure, you can add as many sort-of-similar radiating elements as you like into that environment without changing what leaks out. Added gadgets do not affect the shielding integrity (so long as the shield doesn't melt). Of course, this would require an engineering analysis of each new added gadget (for similarity to previous gadgets and for risk of compromise of the shield integrity). So maybe this path would be more trouble than alternatives. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Monrad Monsen [mailto:monrad.mon...@oracle.com] Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 9:36 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] EMC and Data Center Hi Eugene, I'll take a stab at answering your questions. Should I test just one rack of a type on the turn table for RE? How many racks should be tested together for CE? Or just one? I test the worst-case maximum configuration that can be mounted in a single 19-inch rack. FCC would refer to this as a composite system [47CFR15.31(k) in http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2014-title47-vol1/pdf/CFR-2014-title47-vol1 -sec15-31.pdf]. While FCC talks about composite systems having separate enclosures connected by wire, I do not believe one needs to extend that to everything in an IS shop (or everything in the world) that is connected by wire. Hence, I stop at a more reasonable place of a single 19-inch rack. Generally, a single rack would have a couple of servers, couple of disk arrays, a couple of Ethernet and/or Fibre Channel switches, and the rest of the rack filled with disk arrays. What standards are to be applicable for this situation? FCC? Bellcore GR-1089? Both? More? Only FCC has the force of law, so this is the only one that is mandatory. However, your e-mail indicates that you intend to sell to telephone companies in USA, and some telephone company customers will only buy products that are NEBS compliant (GR-1089). NEBS would be a marketing requirement, not a regulatory requirement. Please note that you can sell non-NEBS verified products to telephone companies (even ATT and Verizon) if they plan to use it in their IS shop away from their telecommunications network control facilities, but you will be a step ahead of the competition if you did go ahead and get NEBS for those customers. Be forewarned that you need to check on a lab's accreditation to confirm they can test for NEBS, and some telephone companies also require the Verizon accreditation for the test labs with Verizon's extra requirements. Complying with NEBS will add cost to your products both in the testing and in the design. Again, this is a marketing decision. Ed Price adds an interesting discussion about treating the entire data center as a single product. I don't think this is practical from from a sales perspective because it would require doing on-site emissions testing every time the data center changes (installs extra equipment). Hope this helps. Monrad Monsen Disclaimer: Everything expressed in this e-mail are strictly my own opinions and are not necessarily those of any employer I work for. On 5/14/2015 1:42 AM, Ed Price wrote: I'm not an expert on this, but here's a starter. Shouldn't a data center be within an RF shielded enclosure, with power and signal ports bandwidth limited by filters and couplers? (Wouldn't the data I/O be fiberoptic?) A moderate enclosure should give you 80dB isolation from the environment, and physical isolation will add to that. You could consider the whole enclosure as one device. For RE, standing just outside the enclosure, I doubt you could even prove the data center internal systems were working. I'll let others add/correct this, but to me, a data center looks like a factory in a box, with its own dedicated power feed (not shared by residential or light industrial users) and can be treated as Part 18 ISM. I don't know what your client expects of you, but I think they should be concerned with self-compatibility of the various subsystems installed within that shielded volume. Will each rack of processors or routers have its own UPS? What interactions will happen with multiple UPS's connected in parallel, and what will be the RE environment among those racks? And if this equipment is all USA origin, what further assurances of RS can the vendors provide? Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Eugene Peyzner [mailto:epeyz...@sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2015 8:56 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] EMC and Data Center Dear experts, Could you please share your knowledge about a philosophical or logical approach to EMC testing of a data center. To simplify my question let's talk about just
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
Old microwave ovens (like the one from 1988) were electrically quite simple; a relay applied AC power to a step-up transformer, and the secondary output was grounded (one side) and connected to a diode (other side). The diode allowed a low-capacitance HV capacitor to charge and the magnetron to produce RF output. It was a simple half-wave rectifier circuit. When the door safety switch open, the relay would drop out (anywhere along the AC sinewave), and the magnetron would continue to produce RF until the capacitor voltage dropped below the minimum magnetron excitation voltage. I can't recall magnetron current nor the capacitor size, but the decay was pretty darn fast. I wonder if the capacitor was large enough to sustain RF output through the negative half of the AC power? So, although electrical shut-down was quick, you have to take slack in the door safety switch mechanism into consideration. Best if the switch was linked to a safety latch, but not so good if the switch was sensing door position. New microwave ovens, more computer than appliance, and with a switching power supply, might have a larger HV capacitor, and thus longer decay time when being shut down. People who have built their own ham gear or have built lab equipment such as pulse generators, know the hazards of HV and interlock systems, but when your whole experience is built around 5 3.3 VDC equipment, RF door leakage may come as a big surprise. I think EMC engineers would be aware of this, but the issue is much more under the domain of safety. If nothing else, an EMC engineer should flag this to the safety guy for proper evaluation. Interestingly, many news sources quote the oven emission as 1.4 GHz which is very unlikely for a consumer oven. They didn't mention if the telescope was being used in the 2.4 GHz band (again unlikely), so I wonder if the telescope was being overloaded by the out-of-band 2.4 GHz oven fundamental, if the oven harmonics were to blame or if the telescope data-processing equipment was actually the victim. One story at least admitted that researchers were suspicious of the signals, as they only were a problem during working hours. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA From: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 8:55 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Hi All, I recently wrote an article on wireless interference, with microwave ovens being one source of that interference. Fortunately, the use cycle of microwave ovens is relatively short, so any interference is short-term. However, any leakage is certainly an issue for those standing nearby - maybe listening to popcorn, etc.? http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/Wi-Fi-network-inte rference--analysis--and-optimization In this article, I show a real-time spectral plot of microwave oven leakage at 12 inch distance from the oven. The peaks were around -20 dBm using a short rubber duck antenna on the Tek RSA306 analyzer. The leakage limit is 1 mW/cm^2 with a test load (water) and 5 mW/cm^2 without a test load (measured at 5 cm from the oven surface). I measured mine just now at 0.1 mW/cm^2 loaded and 0.5 mW/cm^2 unloaded. The Australian Government did a study on the subject in 2004 and includes some interesting background on the door interlock designs: http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf Health Canada also did a survey of several new and used microwave ovens in the Ottawa area: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/radiation/microwave_ovens-micro_ondes/i ndex-eng.php Cheers, Ken ___ Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services, Inc. 56 Aspen Dr. Woodland Park, CO Phone: (719) 310-5418 Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site http://www.emc-seminars.com | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/ The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt On May 15, 2015, at 9:00 AM, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote: My microwave oven used correctly interferes with wi-fi and Bluetooth, but with blue tooth if I bring the devices close together I can overpower the incidental oven radiation, right next to the oven. I can't do that with wi-fi at home, because of the fixed location of the wi-fi base station at the other end of the house from the oven. Obviously I can bring the wi-fi device closer to the base station and at the same time farther from the oven and make the problem go away, but that is hardly surprising. But the point of the news item was that it seemed the interference was tied to the oven door opening, which is problematic, at least to me. I don't buy the delay thing someone posited - I'm thinking that it is a switch activating a relay interrupting power to the magnetron, and that happens before any
[PSES] Oven Sinicism
Yes, it's Friday, so let's route all this into its own Sinicism thread! Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA -Original Message- From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:34 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Sinicism - a word made up from Latin for Chinese (sinicus) and Greek for belief, ideology or style (ism). Meaning - a Chinese method or style extended meaning - a certain negative belief about products made in China - of which may result in missing the good things. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:16 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven And I'm not disappointed. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Reply-To: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:50:26 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 002e01d08f35$4068c0f0$c13a42d0$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: May your Sinicism not cause you to miss the good things in life. I'm not Chinese! And I'm not of the canine persuasion, which is what the word you aimed at originally alluded to. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
Hi Ken, I suspect that the health impact of the microwave popcorn far exceed the leakage from the oven. This stuff is bad, not fit for human consumption. Doug Douglas C. Smith University of Oxford Tutor Department for Continuing Education Oxford, Oxfordshire, United Kingdom -- ___ _Doug Smith \ / ) P.O. Box 60941 = Boulder City, NV 89006-0941 _ / \ / \ _TEL/FAX: 702-570-6108/570-6013 / /\ \ ] / /\ \ Mobile: 408-858-4528 | q-( ) | o | Email: d...@dsmith.org \ _ /]\ _ / Web: http://www.dsmith.org -- On 5/15/15 08:54, Ken Wyatt wrote: Hi All, I recently wrote an article on wireless interference, with microwave ovens being one source of that interference. Fortunately, the use cycle of microwave ovens is relatively short, so any interference is short-term. However, any leakage is certainly an issue for those standing nearby - maybe listening to popcorn, etc.? http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/Wi-Fi-network-interference--analysis--and-optimization In this article, I show a real-time spectral plot of microwave oven leakage at 12 inch distance from the oven. The peaks were around -20 dBm using a short “rubber duck” antenna on the Tek RSA306 analyzer. The leakage limit is 1 mW/cm^2 with a test load (water) and 5 mW/cm^2 without a test load (measured at 5 cm from the oven surface). I measured mine just now at 0.1 mW/cm^2 loaded and 0.5 mW/cm^2 unloaded. The Australian Government did a study on the subject in 2004 and includes some interesting background on the door interlock designs: http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf Health Canada also did a survey of several new and used microwave ovens in the Ottawa area: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/radiation/microwave_ovens-micro_ondes/index-eng.php Cheers, Ken ___ Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services, Inc. 56 Aspen Dr. Woodland Park, CO Phone: (719) 310-5418 Email Me! | Web Site | Blog The EMC Blog (EDN) Subscribe to Newsletter Connect with me on LinkedIn On May 15, 2015, at 9:00 AM, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote: My microwave oven used correctly interferes with wi-fi and Bluetooth, but with blue tooth if I bring the devices close together I can overpower the incidental oven radiation, right next to the oven. I can't do that with wi-fi at home, because of the fixed location of the wi-fi base station at the other end of the house from the oven. Obviously I can bring the wi-fi device closer to the base station and at the same time farther from the oven and make the problem go away, but that is hardly surprising. But the point of the news item was that it seemed the interference was tied to the oven door opening, which is problematic, at least to me. I don't buy the delay thing someone posited - I'm thinking that it is a switch activating a relay interrupting power to the magnetron, and that happens before any pressure on the oven door gasket has been released. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Michael Derby micha...@acbcert.com Reply-To: Michael Derby micha...@acbcert.com Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 08:02:00 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven This isn't a particularly helpful contribution, but when I use my microwave (used correctly, with the door closed), my Bluetooth speaker completely stops working and any WiFi activity grinds to a halt. I try to keep the kids away from the microwave when it's in
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
My microwave oven used correctly interferes with wi-fi and Bluetooth, but with blue tooth if I bring the devices close together I can overpower the incidental oven radiation, right next to the oven. I can't do that with wi-fi at home, because of the fixed location of the wi-fi base station at the other end of the house from the oven. Obviously I can bring the wi-fi device closer to the base station and at the same time farther from the oven and make the problem go away, but that is hardly surprising. But the point of the news item was that it seemed the interference was tied to the oven door opening, which is problematic, at least to me. I don't buy the delay thing someone posited - I'm thinking that it is a switch activating a relay interrupting power to the magnetron, and that happens before any pressure on the oven door gasket has been released. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Michael Derby micha...@acbcert.com Reply-To: Michael Derby micha...@acbcert.com Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 08:02:00 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven This isn't a particularly helpful contribution, but when I use my microwave (used correctly, with the door closed), my Bluetooth speaker completely stops working and any WiFi activity grinds to a halt. I try to keep the kids away from the microwave when it's in use, as much as I can. Michael. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: 14 May 2015 23:42 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 1f28.6030...@gmail.com, dated Thu, 14 May 2015, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com writes: My question is this. If the RF generated inside the oven does not stop prior to the opening of the RF seal on the door, which testing is responsible to identify this problem, EMC or the Safety testing Not 'either/or': emission with the door open violates CISPR 11/EN 55011, it's also a violation of the Section of IEC/EN 60335-2 (too late here to look it up) and potentially a violation of the regulatory EMF exposure limits as measured according to IEC 62233. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
Sinicism - a word made up from Latin for Chinese (sinicus) and Greek for belief, ideology or style (ism). Meaning - a Chinese method or style extended meaning - a certain negative belief about products made in China - of which may result in missing the good things. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:16 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven And I'm not disappointed. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Reply-To: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:50:26 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 002e01d08f35$4068c0f0$c13a42d0$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: May your Sinicism not cause you to miss the good things in life. I'm not Chinese! And I'm not of the canine persuasion, which is what the word you aimed at originally alluded to. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
Hmm -odd - It's not in my dictionary - or online! Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications (w) 303-706-5467 (c) 303-204-2974 (t) 3032042...@vtext.com (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 1:34 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Sinicism - a word made up from Latin for Chinese (sinicus) and Greek for belief, ideology or style (ism). Meaning - a Chinese method or style extended meaning - a certain negative belief about products made in China - of which may result in missing the good things. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:16 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven And I'm not disappointed. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Reply-To: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:50:26 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 002e01d08f35$4068c0f0$c13a42d0$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: May your Sinicism not cause you to miss the good things in life. I'm not Chinese! And I'm not of the canine persuasion, which is what the word you aimed at originally alluded to. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
The fact that this seems an anomaly says the Bayesian probability is satisfied by reason and uniformity - that being, there are more satisfactorily operating devices than lemons. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 9:04 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 001001d08f24$621e6c60$265b4520$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: The solution to that is simple - get a new microwave but don't buy the same brand. :) What is the Bayesian probability that the new brand will be worse? (;-) -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
May your Sinicism not cause you to miss the good things in life. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 9:50 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 002701d08f2c$fbcc7d40$f36577c0$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: The fact that this seems an anomaly says the Bayesian probability is satisfied by reason and uniformity - that being, there are more satisfactorily operating devices than lemons. May you never be disillusioned. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] UL HTTPS
I use this every day and It is working properly for me Sam Yoga Crestron -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 3:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] UL HTTPS Anyone know what is with UL's CDA site? Seems to have lost the secure connect for last several days. The pages seem only partially encrypted or perhaps mixed scripts, but cannot detect anything using inspect mode on browser. Hopefully they just need to renew cert. Sent email to them several days past - no response. If the good people at UL see this, please fix because my IS manager will eventually have me shot for port tunneling. Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_emc-2Dpstc.htmld=AwIDAgc=BevoquqpKcc6oV2fwHriBQr=dofpBn4J6nPuIlt653z28iUWOHRTdSU1dwe-aUNN1mQm=pNK4X2W2xq7vBCOrmr69K7QybEoZtWunMxPALJsKWBcs=kdoLHe4WztNNpYl57RV2x1g0SgGjRpzaN_gJto_I2PIe= Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__product-2Dcompliance.oc.ieee.org_d=AwIDAgc=BevoquqpKcc6oV2fwHriBQr=dofpBn4J6nPuIlt653z28iUWOHRTdSU1dwe-aUNN1mQm=pNK4X2W2xq7vBCOrmr69K7QybEoZtWunMxPALJsKWBcs=qV33YZe8hgZaHGFvwCIhZ8fBbg7PwWcaoabMyjTl3nke= can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_d=AwIDAgc=BevoquqpKcc6oV2fwHriBQr=dofpBn4J6nPuIlt653z28iUWOHRTdSU1dwe-aUNN1mQm=pNK4X2W2xq7vBCOrmr69K7QybEoZtWunMxPALJsKWBcs=eZwU9hMwPSOywgqt_U9UUdBQhnwTmFYTEKPJKmSxDDce= Instructions: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_list.htmld=AwIDAgc=BevoquqpKcc6oV2fwHriBQr=dofpBn4J6nPuIlt653z28iUWOHRTdSU1dwe-aUNN1mQm=pNK4X2W2xq7vBCOrmr69K7QybEoZtWunMxPALJsKWBcs=3OFeZc-emurDE_tRgjIa0GcT8oZel48cAtbrn6WGEJUe= (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.ieee-2Dpses.org_listrules.htmld=AwIDAgc=BevoquqpKcc6oV2fwHriBQr=dofpBn4J6nPuIlt653z28iUWOHRTdSU1dwe-aUNN1mQm=pNK4X2W2xq7vBCOrmr69K7QybEoZtWunMxPALJsKWBcs=hXUjjefDAWJSo-ijBdKPwKkpwE4KfMKwerOK0aEW2VYe= For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
It's there, keep looking. :) Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:charles.gra...@echostar.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:43 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Hmm -odd - It's not in my dictionary - or online! Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications (w) 303-706-5467 (c) 303-204-2974 (t) 3032042...@vtext.com (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 1:34 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Sinicism - a word made up from Latin for Chinese (sinicus) and Greek for belief, ideology or style (ism). Meaning - a Chinese method or style extended meaning - a certain negative belief about products made in China - of which may result in missing the good things. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:16 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven And I'm not disappointed. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Reply-To: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:50:26 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 002e01d08f35$4068c0f0$c13a42d0$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: May your Sinicism not cause you to miss the good things in life. I'm not Chinese! And I'm not of the canine persuasion, which is what the word you aimed at originally alluded to. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help,
Re: [PSES] UL HTTPS
I accessed the CDA site through the MyHome site and I had a secure connection the whole time. I checked a number of features at the CDA and ran into nothing resembling what you are describing. For reference purposes, I'm running Internet Explorer from the Windows 8.1 operating system. I also tried with Firefox and had the same results with a continuous secure connection. Are you using an old direct link to the CDA? I realize that, based on who I work for, technical support from we would always be suspect. :-) Ted Eckert Compliance Engineer Microsoft Corporation ted.eck...@microsoft.com The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] UL HTTPS Anyone know what is with UL's CDA site? Seems to have lost the secure connect for last several days. The pages seem only partially encrypted or perhaps mixed scripts, but cannot detect anything using inspect mode on browser. Hopefully they just need to renew cert. Sent email to them several days past - no response. If the good people at UL see this, please fix because my IS manager will eventually have me shot for port tunneling. Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
Clever etymology, but incorrect, at least politically. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: dward dw...@pctestlab.com Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 12:34:04 -0700 To: 'Ken Javor' ken.ja...@emccompliance.com, EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Sinicism - a word made up from Latin for Chinese (sinicus) and Greek for belief, ideology or style (ism). Meaning - a Chinese method or style extended meaning - a certain negative belief about products made in China - of which may result in missing the good things. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:16 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven And I'm not disappointed. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Reply-To: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:50:26 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 002e01d08f35$4068c0f0$c13a42d0$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: May your Sinicism not cause you to miss the good things in life. I'm not Chinese! And I'm not of the canine persuasion, which is what the word you aimed at originally alluded to. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher:
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
Apologies to John for inferring a problem with certain areas of the manufacturing world. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: dward [mailto:dw...@pctestlab.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:34 PM To: 'Ken Javor'; 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: RE: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven Sinicism - a word made up from Latin for Chinese (sinicus) and Greek for belief, ideology or style (ism). Meaning - a Chinese method or style extended meaning - a certain negative belief about products made in China - of which may result in missing the good things. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 12:16 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven And I'm not disappointed. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Reply-To: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 19:50:26 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 002e01d08f35$4068c0f0$c13a42d0$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: May your Sinicism not cause you to miss the good things in life. I'm not Chinese! And I'm not of the canine persuasion, which is what the word you aimed at originally alluded to. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
Hi All, I recently wrote an article on wireless interference, with microwave ovens being one source of that interference. Fortunately, the use cycle of microwave ovens is relatively short, so any interference is short-term. However, any leakage is certainly an issue for those standing nearby - maybe listening to popcorn, etc.? http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/Wi-Fi-network-interference--analysis--and-optimization http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/the-emc-blog/4438663/Wi-Fi-network-interference--analysis--and-optimization In this article, I show a real-time spectral plot of microwave oven leakage at 12 inch distance from the oven. The peaks were around -20 dBm using a short “rubber duck” antenna on the Tek RSA306 analyzer. The leakage limit is 1 mW/cm^2 with a test load (water) and 5 mW/cm^2 without a test load (measured at 5 cm from the oven surface). I measured mine just now at 0.1 mW/cm^2 loaded and 0.5 mW/cm^2 unloaded. The Australian Government did a study on the subject in 2004 and includes some interesting background on the door interlock designs: http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf http://www.arpansa.gov.au/pubs/emr/microwave.pdf Health Canada also did a survey of several new and used microwave ovens in the Ottawa area: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/radiation/microwave_ovens-micro_ondes/index-eng.php http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ewh-semt/pubs/radiation/microwave_ovens-micro_ondes/index-eng.php Cheers, Ken ___ Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services, Inc. 56 Aspen Dr. Woodland Park, CO Phone: (719) 310-5418 Email Me! mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com | Web Site http://www.emc-seminars.com/ | Blog http://design-4-emc.com/ The EMC Blog (EDN) http://www.edn.com/blog/The-EMC-Blog Subscribe to Newsletter http://www.emc-seminars.com/Newsletter/Newsletter.html Connect with me on LinkedIn http://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethwyatt On May 15, 2015, at 9:00 AM, Ken Javor ken.ja...@emccompliance.com wrote: My microwave oven used correctly interferes with wi-fi and Bluetooth, but with blue tooth if I bring the devices close together I can overpower the incidental oven radiation, right next to the oven. I can't do that with wi-fi at home, because of the fixed location of the wi-fi base station at the other end of the house from the oven. Obviously I can bring the wi-fi device closer to the base station and at the same time farther from the oven and make the problem go away, but that is hardly surprising. But the point of the news item was that it seemed the interference was tied to the oven door opening, which is problematic, at least to me. I don't buy the delay thing someone posited - I'm thinking that it is a switch activating a relay interrupting power to the magnetron, and that happens before any pressure on the oven door gasket has been released. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Michael Derby micha...@acbcert.com Reply-To: Michael Derby micha...@acbcert.com Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 08:02:00 +0100 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven This isn't a particularly helpful contribution, but when I use my microwave (used correctly, with the door closed), my Bluetooth speaker completely stops working and any WiFi activity grinds to a halt. I try to keep the kids away from the microwave when it's in use, as much as I can. Michael. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: 14 May 2015 23:42 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 1f28.6030...@gmail.com, dated Thu, 14 May 2015, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com writes: My question is this. If the RF generated inside the oven does not stop prior to the opening of the RF seal on the door, which testing is responsible to identify this problem, EMC or the Safety testing Not 'either/or': emission with the door open violates CISPR 11/EN 55011, it's also a violation of the Section of IEC/EN 60335-2 (too late here to look it up) and potentially a violation of the regulatory EMF exposure limits as measured according to IEC 62233. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website:
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
I can't wait for the response to this post! Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: dward dw...@pctestlab.com Reply-To: dward dw...@pctestlab.com Date: Fri, 15 May 2015 10:33:26 -0700 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven May your Sinicism not cause you to miss the good things in life. Dennis Ward This communication and its attachements contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient(s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachments(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: John Woodgate [mailto:j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk] Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 9:50 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven In message 002701d08f2c$fbcc7d40$f36577c0$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: The fact that this seems an anomaly says the Bayesian probability is satisfied by reason and uniformity - that being, there are more satisfactorily operating devices than lemons. May you never be disillusioned. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Interference Caused by Microwave Oven
In message 002701d08f2c$fbcc7d40$f36577c0$@pctestlab.com, dated Fri, 15 May 2015, dward dw...@pctestlab.com writes: The fact that this seems an anomaly says the Bayesian probability is satisfied by reason and uniformity - that being, there are more satisfactorily operating devices than lemons. May you never be disillusioned. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com