Re: [PSES] CB Scheme for EMC
Dear Steli, It is our honor to have you in the group to help. Thank you so much!!! Best regards, Grace Lin On Sat, Oct 24, 2015 at 10:26 AM, <sloz...@ieee.org> wrote: > Dear Grace, > > As a professional involved in the IECEE CB Scheme(I am an IECEE Lead and > Technical Auditor for MED, MEAS, TRON and OFF) I will try to answer to your > questions. > > See below in red my answers. > > If you need additional details please feel free to contact me directly to > my e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org. > > Best Regards, > > Steli > > > > > > *Steli Loznen*, M.Sc., SM-I > > Member of IEEE-PSES BoD > > 17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd. > > 64367 Tel Aviv > > ISRAEL > > Tel:+972-3-6912668 <+972-3-6912668> > > Fax:+972-3-6913988 > > *Mobile:+972-54-7245794 <%2B972-54-7245794>* > > E-mail: sloz...@ieee.org > > > > > > > > *From:* Grace Lin [mailto:graceli...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Saturday, October 24, 2015 7:27 PM > *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG > *Subject:* [PSES] CB Scheme for EMC > > > > Dear Members, > > > > Could you please help me to understand CB scheme from the EMC point of > view? More specifically: > > > > 1. Is any standard outside of the accepted standards ( > http://members.iecee.org/iecee/ieceemembers.nsf/IECEEScopeInStandard) ) > not accepted? No. > > 2. Is there any specific (qualification) requirement for a test personnel > (technician, engineer, etc.)? No. The professional skills of test > personnel is evaluate during the IECEE Assessment (once at three years). > > 3. Is there any specific (qualification) requirement for a test report > reviewer? No. See answer to 2. On the Assessment Report (OD-2004 and > OD-2005) are indicated the NCB and CBTL allocation of responsibilities. The > competence is evaluated during the Assessment by the Audit Team. > > 4. Is it correct that a certificate is required in addition to a test > report? Yes. The Certificate CBTC is issued by the NCB to which is > related the CBTL, after review of the correctness of the test report. For > this stage are used the specific IEC standards, ISO 17025, IECEE TRF (Test > Report Form) and the IECEE Rules, OD’s (Operational Documents) and OP’s > (Operational Procedures). > > > > Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you. > > > > Best regards, > > Grace Lin > > - > > > This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc > discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to < > emc-p...@ieee.org> > > All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: > http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > > Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at > http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in > well-used formats), large files, etc. > > Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ > Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to > unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html> > List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > > For help, send mail to the list administrators: > Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> > Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> > > For policy questions, send mail to: > Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> > David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com> > -- > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2014.0.4830 / Virus Database: 4365/10844 - Release Date: 10/18/15 > - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
[PSES] CB Scheme for EMC
Dear Members, Could you please help me to understand CB scheme from the EMC point of view? More specifically: 1. Is any standard outside of the accepted standards ( http://members.iecee.org/iecee/ieceemembers.nsf/IECEEScopeInStandard) ) not accepted? 2. Is there any specific (qualification) requirement for a test personnel (technician, engineer, etc.)? 3. Is there any specific (qualification) requirement for a test report reviewer? 4. Is it correct that a certificate is required in addition to a test report? Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you. Best regards, Grace Lin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <sdoug...@ieee.org> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald: <dhe...@gmail.com>
IEC 60529 IP54 with CB Scheme
Does anyone know of a lab that can produce a CB Scheme Report to IEC 60529 for IP54 rating? Best Regards, X-Antispam: NO; Spamcatcher 4.1.11. Score 2 Jody Leber Program Manager jody.le...@motorola.com http://www.motorola.com/producttesting Motorola Product Testing Services 1700 Belle Meade Court Lawrenceville, GA 30043 770.338.3581 P 404.387.1224 C 847.761.3145 F - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: IEC 60529 IP54 with CB Scheme
I don't know if you will find any North American lab with IEC 60529 in their scope under the CB Scheme. I took a quick look at the CB Scheme web site and the standard didn't show up under the scope for UL, CSA or Intertek. For Europe, I only looked at VDE, TÜV Rheinleand and TÜV SÜD, and IEC 50529 did show up under their scopes. Other European labs can likely also test to the standard. You can perform a detailed search for laboratories from this link. http://members.iecee.org/iecee/ieceemembers.nsf?Opendatabase Ted Eckert The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. --- On Tue, 9/2/08, Leber Jody-G19980 jody.le...@motorola.com wrote: From: Leber Jody-G19980 jody.le...@motorola.com Subject: IEC 60529 IP54 with CB Scheme To: EMC-PSTC emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 11:17 AM Does anyone know of a lab that can produce a CB Scheme Report to IEC 60529 for IP54 rating? Best Regards, Jody Leber Program Manager jody.le...@motorola.com http://www.motorola.com/producttesting Motorola Product Testing Services 1700 Belle Meade Court Lawrenceville, GA 30043 770.338.3581 P 404.387.1224 C 847.761.3145 F - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: IEC 60529 IP54 with CB Scheme
60529 testing is not usually a large part of a homologation exercise. I'd expect to be able to persuade a CB scheme member to accept results from any nationally accredited lab so long as the report format and back-up paperwork was appropriate. Contact me off line if you want recommendations for labs which can do this testing in the UK. Nick. At 14:17 -0400 2/9/08, Leber Jody-G19980 wrote: Does anyone know of a lab that can produce a CB Scheme Report to IEC 60529 for IP54 rating? Best Regards, Jody Leber Program Manager jody.le...@motorola.com http://www.motorola.com/producttesting Motorola Product Testing Services 1700 Belle Meade Court Lawrenceville, GA 30043 770.338.3581 P 404.387.1224 C 847.761.3145 F - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: IEC 60529 IP54 with CB Scheme
In message 768ee6ab7d56d54bb5000ec2dd113e710453a...@de01exm61.ds.mot.com, dated Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Leber Jody-G19980 jody.le...@motorola.com writes: Does anyone know of a lab that can produce a CB Scheme Report to IEC 60529 for IP54 rating? Is there a US national or other standard that is similar, but not identical, to IEC 60529? If so, tests to that standard MIGHT be adequate for your purpose. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose! John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: IEC 60529 IP54 with CB Scheme
The North American standard for rating enclosures, NEMA 250, is quite different from IEC 60529. The NEMA ratings are based on the penetration of dust and water under different conditions and do not specify the maximum opening as in the IEC 60529 IP rating. UL 50 uses basically (although not exactly) the same ratings as NEMA 250. Ted Eckert The opinions expressed are my own and are not necessarily those of my employer. --- On Tue, 9/2/08, John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk wrote: From: John Woodgate j...@jmwa.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: IEC 60529 IP54 with CB Scheme To: emc-p...@ieee.org Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 12:42 PM In message 768ee6ab7d56d54bb5000ec2dd113e710453a...@de01exm61.ds.mot.com, dated Tue, 2 Sep 2008, Leber Jody-G19980 jody.le...@motorola.com writes: Does anyone know of a lab that can produce a CB Scheme Report to IEC 60529 for IP54 rating? Is there a US national or other standard that is similar, but not identical, to IEC 60529? If so, tests to that standard MIGHT be adequate for your purpose. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk Either we are causing global warming, in which case we may be able to stop it, or natural variation is causing it, and we probably can't stop it. You choose! John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Does CB Scheme Covers EMC
CB scheme doesn't include EMC. The referenced standard may have tests included which are similar to the ones referenced in the EMC standards, but this doesn't mean CB scheme includes EMC. Best Regards Lothar Schmidt Director Regulatory Antenna Services CETECOM Inc. 411 Dixon Landing Road Milpitas, CA 95035 Phone +1 (408) 586 6214 Fax +1 (408) 586 6299 emaillothar.schm...@cetecomusa.com This e-mail may contain proprietary, privileged and confidential information for the sole use of the named intended recipient. Any review or distribution of this e-mail by any party other than the intended recipient or that person's agent is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete all copies and immediately contact the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ted.eck...@apcc.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:52 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Does CB Scheme Covers EMC Hello Grace, EMC is covered under the CB Scheme in some circumstances. Typically, the EMC is only covered if the applicable safety standard requires EMC testing. One example is IEC 60335-1. This standard includes some EMC testing for surges and transients. A CB report to IEC 60335-1 that includes the correct testing will have covered some immunity testing. However, household products will still need to be separately tested to CISPR 14 for many countries. Another example is METI DENAN approval. Specified products must be tested for both safety and EMC compliance. I have been able to use a CB report when submitting for DENAN approval, but I also need to have EMC testing done by an approved laboratory. In my case, that has meant going to a CB Test Lab that also has EMC services. In general, EMC falls outside of the CB Scheme. If I want Japanese VCCI approval on a product, I must use a lab that has specific VCCI approval. Japan's participation in the CB Scheme doesn't give me any advantage for VCCI testing. I have found the same to hold true for a number of other Asian EMC approvals. This is just my experience to date and others may have better information. However, since I hadn't seen a response yet, I thought I would provide the information that I have. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC-MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC-MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Grace Lin gracelinnj@gmail .com To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 01/16/2008 05:40 Does CB Scheme Covers EMC AM Dear members, Could you please comment if CB scheme covers EMC? Years ago, CB scheme covered Safety only. I would like to learn if EMC can be covered at this time. Thank you. Best regards, Grace - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send
Re: Does CB Scheme Covers EMC
Grace, Yes it does but from the regulatory standpoint, it does not mean very much except for the countries that have are members of the IEC and participate in the emc CB scheme (not many) Depending on product category, some countries like Brazil, Israel and China still require in-country emc tests. Others like Australia, Japan, Saudi Arabia and Russia will accept emc reports from an accredited emc laboratory. Best Regards, Peter Grace Lin graceli...@gmail.com wrote: Dear members, Could you please comment if CB scheme covers EMC? Years ago, CB scheme covered Safety only. I would like to learn if EMC can be covered at this time. Thank you. Best regards, Grace - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ Looking for last minute shopping deals? http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http //tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. - --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: Does CB Scheme Covers EMC
Hi All, This might be of interestscroll down the page for a list of standards that are covered. http://www.iecee.org/CBSCHEME/Standard/emc.htm regards, kaz From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of ted.eck...@apcc.com Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 9:52 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Does CB Scheme Covers EMC Hello Grace, EMC is covered under the CB Scheme in some circumstances. Typically, the EMC is only covered if the applicable safety standard requires EMC testing. One example is IEC 60335-1. This standard includes some EMC testing for surges and transients. A CB report to IEC 60335-1 that includes the correct testing will have covered some immunity testing. However, household products will still need to be separately tested to CISPR 14 for many countries. Another example is METI DENAN approval. Specified products must be tested for both safety and EMC compliance. I have been able to use a CB report when submitting for DENAN approval, but I also need to have EMC testing done by an approved laboratory. In my case, that has meant going to a CB Test Lab that also has EMC services. In general, EMC falls outside of the CB Scheme. If I want Japanese VCCI approval on a product, I must use a lab that has specific VCCI approval. Japan's participation in the CB Scheme doesn't give me any advantage for VCCI testing. I have found the same to hold true for a number of other Asian EMC approvals. This is just my experience to date and others may have better information. However, since I hadn't seen a response yet, I thought I would provide the information that I have. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC-MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC-MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Grace Lin gracelinnj@gmail .com To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 01/16/2008 05:40 Does CB Scheme Covers EMC AM Dear members, Could you please comment if CB scheme covers EMC? Years ago, CB scheme covered Safety only. I would like to learn if EMC can be covered at this time. Thank you. Best regards, Grace - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: Does CB Scheme Covers EMC
Hello Grace, EMC is covered under the CB Scheme in some circumstances. Typically, the EMC is only covered if the applicable safety standard requires EMC testing. One example is IEC 60335-1. This standard includes some EMC testing for surges and transients. A CB report to IEC 60335-1 that includes the correct testing will have covered some immunity testing. However, household products will still need to be separately tested to CISPR 14 for many countries. Another example is METI DENAN approval. Specified products must be tested for both safety and EMC compliance. I have been able to use a CB report when submitting for DENAN approval, but I also need to have EMC testing done by an approved laboratory. In my case, that has meant going to a CB Test Lab that also has EMC services. In general, EMC falls outside of the CB Scheme. If I want Japanese VCCI approval on a product, I must use a lab that has specific VCCI approval. Japan's participation in the CB Scheme doesn't give me any advantage for VCCI testing. I have found the same to hold true for a number of other Asian EMC approvals. This is just my experience to date and others may have better information. However, since I hadn't seen a response yet, I thought I would provide the information that I have. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC-MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC-MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. Grace Lin gracelinnj@gmail .com To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 01/16/2008 05:40 Does CB Scheme Covers EMC AM Dear members, Could you please comment if CB scheme covers EMC? Years ago, CB scheme covered Safety only. I would like to learn if EMC can be covered at this time. Thank you. Best regards, Grace - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Does CB Scheme Covers EMC
Dear members, Could you please comment if CB scheme covers EMC? Years ago, CB scheme covered Safety only. I would like to learn if EMC can be covered at this time. Thank you. Best regards, Grace - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: EMC IECEE CB Scheme and Wordwide Acceptance
I have had CQC ask for a CB EMC report to complete CCC approval. They have accepted my EMC reports from a CB lab but not from others. Ted Eckert American Power Conversion/MGE http://www.apc-mge.com/ The items contained in this e-mail reflect the personal opinions of the writer and are only provided for the assistance of the reader. The writer is not speaking in an official capacity for APC, MGE or Schneider Electric. The speaker does not represent APC's, MGE's or Schneider Electric's official position on any matter. peter merguerian pmerguerian2001@ yahoo.com To Sent by: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org cc Subject 03/01/2007 12:22 EMC IECEE CB Scheme and Wordwide AMAcceptance Dear Group, I would like to ask the group if there has been any request from external certification bodies for emc test reports and certificates issued by NCBs to gain global certifications. Unlike the CB scheme for safety, I personally have not come across any country in the world asking me for a CB emc test report and certificate. Most countries accept accredited laboratory emc test reports and some countries require in-country testing for emc. Thanks and Best Regards, Peter 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __
Re: Use of IECEE CB Scheme for EMC
Hi All, Perhaps someone can give some more background on why this was adopted. I am sure there is value in it somewhere, but it escapes me. Most countries will accept an EMC test report from an accredited 3rd party test lab, and some don't even require that. As a manufacturer, we only required of the supplier copies of a test report from an accredited competent test lab. One possible reason for the lack of use may be costs, and until it is enforced by governments, it is an uneccessary expense. If the safety CB Scheme is anything to judge by, the minute you mention the CB Scheme your costs quadruple, and EMC testing is expensive enough. An interesting exception is that under the CB Scheme rules, for 60601-1 (medical equipment) the EMC testing has to be carried out by a CBTL, because EMC is part of the safety testing. I have had a case where an un-named NCB has refused to accept an emc test report from a NVLAP accredited test lab, because the test lab is not a CBTL. What is more disturbing is that the NCB has been very reluctant (read refused) to accredit the lab as a CBTL, because it is cutting into their (NCB) business. Conspiracy theory anyone? My $0.02 Doug --- Richard Hughes richhug...@aol.com wrote: Hi folks, A year or so back the IEC decided to extend the IECEE CB Scheme tocover EMC as well as safety. The list of EMC standards which can beused in conjunction with this scheme is given athttp://www.iecee.org/CBSCHEME/Standard/emc.htm - it is quite a list! The IECEE have more recently decided to to publish some informationregarding the category of products where CB Certificates have beeissued on their web site (seehttp://certificates.iecee.org/cbtes cert/cbtestcert.nsf/476c88daa9b602fbc12570990038ef4b/). Looking at the above site shows that while some certificates have beenissued in respect to CISPR 14 (which covers domestic appliances), nonehave been issued in that period to CISPR 22. I am interested in knowing why the scheme is (or seems to be) so littleused for EMC. Of course, I can understand that in many parts of the world EMCcompliance is a first party (supplier's declaration) activity whereassafety requires a third party certificate - so this mitigates againstcompanies paying for something they do not see a market demand for. However, many manufactures of finished goods often contractuallyrequire their sub-assembly and component suppliers to have those itemsCB 'approved' because it eases the burden on them, both in terms ofinitial compliance and on-going follow-up. Why then does the schemeseem so under used? Thanks for your consideration and replies. Richard Hughes p.s. And in case you were wondering, no I do not work for a test houseand I'm not trying to drum up business! -This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Societyemc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list.Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald:emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Use of IECEE CB Scheme for EMC
Hi folks, A year or so back the IEC decided to extend the IECEE CB Scheme to cover EMC as well as safety. The list of EMC standards which can be used in conjunction with this scheme is given at http://www.iecee.org/CBSCHEME/Standard/emc.htm - it is quite a list! The IECEE have more recently decided to to publish some information regarding the category of products where CB Certificates have bee issued on their web site (see http://certificates.iecee.org cbtestcert/cbtestcert.nsf/476c88daa9b602fbc12570990038ef4b/ ). Looking at the above site shows that while some certificates have been issued in respect to CISPR 14 (which covers domestic appliances), none have been issued in that period to CISPR 22. I am interested in knowing why the scheme is (or seems to be) so little used for EMC. Of course, I can understand that in many parts of the world EMC compliance is a first party (supplier's declaration) activity whereas safety requires a third party certificate - so this mitigates against companies paying for something they do not see a market demand for. However, many manufactures of finished goods often contractually require their sub-assembly and component suppliers to have those items CB 'approved' because it eases the burden on them, both in terms of initial compliance and on-going follow-up. Why then does the scheme seem so under used? Thanks for your consideration and replies. Richard Hughes p.s. And in case you were wondering, no I do not work for a test house and I'm not trying to drum up business! - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@ptcnh.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: emc-p...@daveheald.com All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- John, Usually customs do not ask for Test Reports and Test Results. However, they do look for the CE Marking on the product or within its packaging. I always tell my customers to mark their bulk shipping containers with the CE Mark. That way, it will make it through customs without being stripped to ensure that the products are indeed marked. Also, even though not required, it is useful to include the CE DoC together with the shipment paperwork. Some European countries, like the UK and France have implemented a surveillance program, similar to the FCC in the US. They will pick up samples from the market and/or trade shows and have it tested in their own accresited test labs to ensure the products meet the essential requirements. If they do not meet the essential requirements, they will be asking the importer for the Technical Construction files to compare the test methods and results. This type of testing happens all the time, but we do not hear much because it is not so nice to advertise these things. Maybe someone in the group would like to share their experiences with the authorities? Best Regards, Peter Merguerian john.radom...@modicon.com wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ John A. I was not referring to the CE mark, DoC, technical file or certain tasks as specified in the relevant Directives. My question was: what was the legal ground to require TEST RESULTS / REPORTS to pass the customs. John Radomski John Allen , emc-p...@ieee.org cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme owner-emc-pstc@listse rv.ieee.org 08/04/2004 08:21 AM http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ John R The product must have the CE mark. Before you apply the mark you must HAVEalready performed certain tasks, as specified in the relevant directive(s) [e..g LVD Annexc IV], notably including preparation of the technical files with all the appropriate data (including, but certainly not limited to, test reports) and then the DoC. No Mark, DoC, or tech files = failure to comply with the directive(s). John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 Please take a minute to visit my web pages at http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp and the main ERA Website at http://www.era.co.uk From: john.radom...@modicon.com [mailto:john.radom...@modicon.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 12:54 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. What was the legal ground to stop products due to lack of test results (reports)? Just curious. John Radomski peter merguerian , peter merguerian o.com , Dan Anchondo , emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@listse Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme rv.ieee.org 08/04/2004 12:49 AM http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ Brian, What is a CE Test Report? It is one that the manufacturer has gathered, either in-house or externally, to determine the product is CE compliant. Remember you can go to any laboratory that meets your criteria of a test lab (my strong recommendation is to ensure it is one that is accredited to ISO 17025). Also note that the CE documentation (EMC, safety, etc.) must be available within 10 days after the manufacturer or importer is requested to do so by the European authorities. I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. Best Regards, Peter Merguerian Brian O'Connell wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian From: peter merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Gary, You are very lucky. I have heard of some cases of imprisonment and some cases of very hefty fines. Basically, the process is very similar to the US FDA and the US FCC. The heaviest punishments is when the product caused a hazard and the manufacturer or importer were unable to prove compliance with the essential requirements of the Directives. However, I have not yet heard of any such cases and am interested to know whether someone in the group has a link or articles on this issue. Regards, Peter Merguerian Gary McInturff gmcintu...@spraycool.com wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ I've never been stopped due to a lack of test reports - or the technical construction file for that matter. Only when the manufacturing site forgot to apply the CE mark et all and the DoC didn't get included in the shipment. The tests, file, and all of the necessary approval steps HAD already been completed - there was just a small paperwork screw-up in apply the appropriate marks. In fact when stopped it only took a few days to get the DoC to the authorities and off it went. (I still don't remember sending the test reports etc - but its been awhile) Gary From: john.radom...@modicon.com [mailto:john.radom...@modicon.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:54 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sub! ject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. What was the legal ground to stop products due to lack of test results (reports)? Just curious. John Radomski peter merguerian , peter merguerian o.com , Dan Anchondo , emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@listse Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme rv.ieee.org 08/04/2004 12:49 AM http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ Brian, What is a CE Test Report? It is one that the manufacturer has gathered, either in-house or externally, to determine the product is CE compliant. Remember you can go to any laboratory that meets your criteria of a test lab (my strong recommendation is to ensure it is one that is accredited to ISO 17025). Also note that the CE documentation (EMC, safety, etc.) must be available within 10 days after the manufacturer or importer is requested to do so by the European authorities. I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. Best Regards, Peter Merguerian Brian O'Connell wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian From: peter merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household Appliances, Audio/Video Appliances, Luminaires, Telecoms, Pressure Vessels, Medical, Telecoms, NOM (Mexico), CCC (China), S Mark (Argentina), GOST (Russia) etc., let me know either privately or via the emc-pstc list. Regards
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Gary Believe it or not, we had a customer who sent a complex comms system to Turkey. The Customs stopped it and would not let it through until they were provided with the Technical Construction File, not just the DoC! Note: Turkey has implemented almost all EU Directives as part of its programme to join the EU - and they seem to enforce them. John -Original Message- From: Gary McInturff [ mailto:gmcintu...@spraycool.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 16:08 To: 'john.radom...@modicon.com'; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- I've never been stopped due to a lack of test reports - or the technical construction file for that matter. Only when the manufacturing site forgot to apply the CE mark et all and the DoC didn't get included in the shipment. The tests, file, and all of the necessary approval steps HAD already been completed - there was just a small paperwork screw-up in apply the appropriate marks. In fact when stopped it only took a few days to get the DoC to the authorities and off it went. (I still don't remember sending the test reports etc - but its been awhile) Gary -Original Message- From: john.radom...@modicon.com [ mailto:john.radom...@modicon.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:54 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. What was the legal ground to stop products due to lack of test results (reports)? Just curious. John Radomski peter merguerian pmerguerian2001@yahoTo: Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com, peter merguerian o.com pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com, Dan Anchondo dancho...@vivotech.com, emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@listseSubject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme rv.ieee.org 08/04/2004 12:49 AM http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Brian, What is a CE Test Report? It is one that the manufacturer has gathered, either in-house or externally, to determine the product is CE compliant. Remember you can go to any laboratory that meets your criteria of a test lab (my strong recommendation is to ensure it is one that is accredited to ISO 17025). Also note that the CE documentation (EMC, safety, etc.) must be available within 10 days after the manufacturer or importer is requested to do so by the European authorities. I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. Best Regards, Peter Merguerian Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [ mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ I've never been stopped due to a lack of test reports - or the technical construction file for that matter. Only when the manufacturing site forgot to apply the CE mark et all and the DoC didn't get included in the shipment. The tests, file, and all of the necessary approval steps HAD already been completed - there was just a small paperwork screw-up in apply the appropriate marks. In fact when stopped it only took a few days to get the DoC to the authorities and off it went. (I still don't remember sending the test reports etc - but its been awhile) Gary From: john.radom...@modicon.com [mailto:john.radom...@modicon.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:54 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. What was the legal ground to stop products due to lack of test results (reports)? Just curious. John Radomski peter merguerian pmerguerian2001@yahoTo: Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com, peter merguerian o.com pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com, Dan Anchondo dancho...@vivotech.com, emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@listseSubject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme rv.ieee.org 08/04/2004 12:49 AM http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ Brian, What is a CE Test Report? It is one that the manufacturer has gathered, either in-house or externally, to determine the product is CE compliant. Remember you can go to any laboratory that meets your criteria of a test lab (my strong recommendation is to ensure it is one that is accredited to ISO 17025). Also note that the CE documentation (EMC, safety, etc.) must be available within 10 days after the manufacturer or importer is requested to do so by the European authorities. I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. Best Regards, Peter Merguerian Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household Appliances, Audio/Video Appliances, Luminaires, Telecoms, Pressure Vessels, Medical, Telecoms, NOM (Mexico), CCC (China), S Mark (Argentina), GOST (Russia) etc., let me know either privately or via the emc-pstc list. Regards, Peter Merguerian --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Brian, What is a CE Test Report? It is one that the manufacturer has gathered, either in-house or externally, to determine the product is CE compliant. Remember you can go to any laboratory that meets your criteria of a test lab (my strong recommendation is to ensure it is one that is accredited to ISO 17025). Also note that the CE documentation (EMC, safety, etc.) must be available within 10 days after the manufacturer or importer is requested to do so by the European authorities. I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. Best Regards, Peter Merguerian Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [ mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household Appliances, Audio/Video Appliances, Luminaires, Telecoms, Pressure Vessels, Medical, Telecoms, NOM (Mexico), CCC (China), S Mark (Argentina), GOST (Russia) etc., let me know either privately or via the emc-pstc list. Regards, Peter Merguerian --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ma l_us/taglines/msgr/evt=26088/*http://messenger.yahoo.com - Communicate in real time. Download now. --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ John A. I was not referring to the CE mark, DoC, technical file or certain tasks as specified in the relevant Directives. My question was: what was the legal ground to require TEST RESULTS / REPORTS to pass the customs. John Radomski John Allen john.al...@era.co.ukTo: 'john.radom...@modicon.com' john.radom...@modicon.com, emc-p...@ieee.org cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme owner-emc-pstc@listse rv.ieee.org 08/04/2004 08:21 AM http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ John R The product must have the CE mark. Before you apply the mark you must HAVE already performed certain tasks, as specified in the relevant directive(s) [e..g LVD Annexc IV], notably including preparation of the technical files with all the appropriate data (including, but certainly not limited to, test reports) and then the DoC. No Mark, DoC, or tech files = failure to comply with the directive(s). John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 Please take a minute to visit my web pages at http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp and the main ERA Website at http://www.era.co.uk From: john.radom...@modicon.com [mailto:john.radom...@modicon.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 12:54 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. What was the legal ground to stop products due to lack of test results (reports)? Just curious. John Radomski peter merguerian pmerguerian2001@yahoTo: Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com, peter merguerian o.com pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com, Dan Anchondo dancho...@vivotech.com, emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@listseSubject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme rv.ieee.org 08/04/2004 12:49 AM http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ Brian, What is a CE Test Report? It is one that the manufacturer has gathered, either in-house or externally, to determine the product is CE compliant. Remember you can go to any laboratory that meets your criteria of a test lab (my strong recommendation is to ensure it is one that is accredited to ISO 17025). Also note that the CE documentation (EMC, safety, etc.) must be available within 10 days after the manufacturer or importer is requested to do so by the European authorities. I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. Best Regards, Peter Merguerian Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- John R The product must have the CE mark. Before you apply the mark you must HAVE already performed certain tasks, as specified in the relevant directive(s) [e..g LVD Annexc IV], notably including preparation of the technical files with all the appropriate data (including, but certainly not limited to, test reports) and then the DoC. No Mark, DoC, or tech files = failure to comply with the directive(s). John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 Please take a minute to visit my web pages at http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp and the main ERA Website at http://www.era.co.uk -Original Message- From: john.radom...@modicon.com [ mailto:john.radom...@modicon.com] Sent: 04 August 2004 12:54 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. What was the legal ground to stop products due to lack of test results (reports)? Just curious. John Radomski peter merguerian pmerguerian2001@yahoTo: Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com, peter merguerian o.com pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com, Dan Anchondo dancho...@vivotech.com, emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@listseSubject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme rv.ieee.org 08/04/2004 12:49 AM http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Brian, What is a CE Test Report? It is one that the manufacturer has gathered, either in-house or externally, to determine the product is CE compliant. Remember you can go to any laboratory that meets your criteria of a test lab (my strong recommendation is to ensure it is one that is accredited to ISO 17025). Also note that the CE documentation (EMC, safety, etc.) must be available within 10 days after the manufacturer or importer is requested to do so by the European authorities. I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. Best Regards, Peter Merguerian Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [ mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. What was the legal ground to stop products due to lack of test results (reports)? Just curious. John Radomski peter merguerian pmerguerian2001@yahoTo: Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com, peter merguerian o.com pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com, Dan Anchondo dancho...@vivotech.com, emc-p...@ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@listseSubject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme rv.ieee.org 08/04/2004 12:49 AM http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ Brian, What is a CE Test Report? It is one that the manufacturer has gathered, either in-house or externally, to determine the product is CE compliant. Remember you can go to any laboratory that meets your criteria of a test lab (my strong recommendation is to ensure it is one that is accredited to ISO 17025). Also note that the CE documentation (EMC, safety, etc.) must be available within 10 days after the manufacturer or importer is requested to do so by the European authorities. I have had numerous occasions where a manufacturer is in panic mode and needed their product tested for CE (yes, within a few days), because they have done nothing about it and have been stopped by Europewan customs. Best Regards, Peter Merguerian Brian O'Connell boconn...@t-yuden.com wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household Appliances, Audio/Video Appliances, Luminaires, Telecoms, Pressure Vessels, Medical, Telecoms, NOM (Mexico), CCC (China), S Mark (Argentina), GOST (Russia) etc., let me know either privately or via the emc-pstc list. Regards, Peter Merguerian --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc Do you Yahoo!? Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- All I found my way to the directives. Whereas I have a lot of reading. Thanks for the help. Regards Dan From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:35 AM To: John Allen; Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme Hi John, I think there is a lot of basic education but some of this basic education that I have seen does not really line up with the impartial info that you mention in your guide. Many (ignorant) manufacturers, seeking for a CE certification of their products are more than happy if they are informed that the CE certification report they get gives them full access to the EU market. In most cases, these reports are provided with a hughe number of stamps and signatures and contain a certificate stating:: Hereby, lab xxx confirms that product yyy complies with EU Directive zzz, allowing the application of the CE mark. If I were an (ignorant) manufacturer, I would be more than happy to get such statements in writing. It was hard for me to get such statements removed from testreports. The labs that issued the reports informed me that I could not apply for the CE certification mark if this text was removed. More-over, many of these testreports are issued in countries where local product approvals are to be obtained by means of certification only and real test reports are of minor value, sometimes not even existing. Regards, Kris From: John Allen [mailto:john.al...@era.co.uk] Sent: maandag 2 augustus 2004 16:36 To: Carpentier Kristiaan; Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme Kris, Re 2nd para of your message - I agree that there is considerable confusion and a lack of understanding in this area (likewise, that horribly misused term CE approved.) Think there is room for a lot of basic education on the subject - and especially what the Technical Construction/Documentation File must contain, especially about the manufacturing control evidence side of the requirements. LVD Annex IV is a good guide - as summarised here http://www.era.co.uk/Docs/ECS/JA/CEMarkingDoCRequirements.pdf If most people understood that then they would not be so free with the statements they do make - and the files might then be of more use in the longterm. Regards John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 Please take a minute to visit my web pages at http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp and the main ERA Website at http://www.era.co.uk From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: 02 August 2004 15:15 To: Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Brain, Most testreports I read nowadays are 'CE testreports or CE certification reports. Taking a closer look to the content (for RTTE products), makes clear if it is a testreport for EMC, safety or Spectrum. I see many mails about CE certification and CE Certification marks and many manufacturers believe that their products can be CE-certified if there is a CE certification report, irrespective of its content. Regards, Kris -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Brian O'Connell Sent: maandag 2 augustus 2004 15:26 To: peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [ mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country
CE Marking Myths (was RE: IEC and the CB Scheme)
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Kris If I was running a test lab that issued reports and certificates like those you mention, I think I would want to find ANOTHER job PDQ! Just think what would happen if one of the lab's customers said one thing and did another by shipping blatently non-compliant and dangerous products based on the lab's OK!. Of course, if the manufacturer and the lab are outside the EU then they cannot be hit by EU criminal legislation, so that's all right then for them - but then think of the poor importer who has taken the responsibility for importing the equipment into the EU. I like to to refer to him as the virtual manufacturer as he takes on most of the legal responsibilities of the actual manufacturer but without much real control of the products he is bringing in. He would need a good lawyer and lots of liability insurance! Actually, I think that importers often need more help than manufacturers - they are generally less well educated in the legal requirements but take on most of the liabilities for only a small proportion of the rewards. Finally, I agree with you about the impartiality of some of the advice out there! The fact is that most of the basic good advice is already out there for free - the trick (if there is one!) is understanding and implementing the requirements, and then gathering, verifying and maintaining the appropriate evidence. That's why we are trying to assist specifically in this area, and to provide relevant impartial training. Regards John Allen ERA Technology Ltd From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: 02 August 2004 16:35 To: John Allen; Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme Hi John, I think there is a lot of basic education but some of this basic education that I have seen does not really line up with the impartial info that you mention in your guide. Many (ignorant) manufacturers, seeking for a CE certification of their products are more than happy if they are informed that the CE certification report they get gives them full access to the EU market. In most cases, these reports are provided with a hughe number of stamps and signatures and contain a certificate stating:: Hereby, lab xxx confirms that product yyy complies with EU Directive zzz, allowing the application of the CE mark. If I were an (ignorant) manufacturer, I would be more than happy to get such statements in writing. It was hard for me to get such statements removed from testreports. The labs that issued the reports informed me that I could not apply for the CE certification mark if this text was removed. More-over, many of these testreports are issued in countries where local product approvals are to be obtained by means of certification only and real test reports are of minor value, sometimes not even existing. Regards, Kris From: John Allen [mailto:john.al...@era.co.uk] Sent: maandag 2 augustus 2004 16:36 To: Carpentier Kristiaan; Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme Kris, Re 2nd para of your message - I agree that there is considerable confusion and a lack of understanding in this area (likewise, that horribly misused term CE approved.) Think there is room for a lot of basic education on the subject - and especially what the Technical Construction/Documentation File must contain, especially about the manufacturing control evidence side of the requirements. LVD Annex IV is a good guide - as summarised here http://www.era.co.uk/Docs/ECS/JA/CEMarkingDoCRequirements.pdf If most people understood that then they would not be so free with the statements they do make - and the files might then be of more use in the longterm. Regards John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 Please take a minute to visit my web pages at http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp and the main ERA Website at http://www.era.co.uk From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: 02 August 2004 15:15 To: Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Brain, Most testreports I read nowadays are 'CE testreports or CE certification reports. Taking a closer look to the content (for RTTE products), makes clear if it is a testreport for EMC, safety or Spectrum. I see many mails about CE certification and CE Certification marks and many manufacturers believe that their products can be CE-certified if there is a CE certification report
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Hi John, I think there is a lot of basic education but some of this basic education that I have seen does not really line up with the impartial info that you mention in your guide. Many (ignorant) manufacturers, seeking for a CE certification of their products are more than happy if they are informed that the CE certification report they get gives them full access to the EU market. In most cases, these reports are provided with a hughe number of stamps and signatures and contain a certificate stating:: Hereby, lab xxx confirms that product yyy complies with EU Directive zzz, allowing the application of the CE mark. If I were an (ignorant) manufacturer, I would be more than happy to get such statements in writing. It was hard for me to get such statements removed from testreports. The labs that issued the reports informed me that I could not apply for the CE certification mark if this text was removed. More-over, many of these testreports are issued in countries where local product approvals are to be obtained by means of certification only and real test reports are of minor value, sometimes not even existing. Regards, Kris From: John Allen [mailto:john.al...@era.co.uk] Sent: maandag 2 augustus 2004 16:36 To: Carpentier Kristiaan; Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme Kris, Re 2nd para of your message - I agree that there is considerable confusion and a lack of understanding in this area (likewise, that horribly misused term CE approved.) Think there is room for a lot of basic education on the subject - and especially what the Technical Construction/Documentation File must contain, especially about the manufacturing control evidence side of the requirements. LVD Annex IV is a good guide - as summarised here http://www.era.co.uk/Docs/ECS/JA/CEMarkingDoCRequirements.pdf If most people understood that then they would not be so free with the statements they do make - and the files might then be of more use in the longterm. Regards John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 Please take a minute to visit my web pages at http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp and the main ERA Website at http://www.era.co.uk From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: 02 August 2004 15:15 To: Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Brain, Most testreports I read nowadays are 'CE testreports or CE certification reports. Taking a closer look to the content (for RTTE products), makes clear if it is a testreport for EMC, safety or Spectrum. I see many mails about CE certification and CE Certification marks and many manufacturers believe that their products can be CE-certified if there is a CE certification report, irrespective of its content. Regards, Kris -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Brian O'Connell Sent: maandag 2 augustus 2004 15:26 To: peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [ mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- H. I suspect that you are probably referring to the TCF. I am not aware of any EC-directive that talks about a CE Test Report. Please correct me if I am not correct. luck, Brian -Original Message- From: Carpentier Kristiaan [ mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:15 AM To: Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme Brain, Most testreports I read nowadays are 'CE testreports or CE certification reports. Taking a closer look to the content (for RTTE products), makes clear if it is a testreport for EMC, safety or Spectrum. I see many mails about CE certification and CE Certification marks and many manufacturers believe that their products can be CE-certified if there is a CE certification report, irrespective of its content. Regards, Kris --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Kris, Re 2nd para of your message - I agree that there is considerable confusion and a lack of understanding in this area (likewise, that horribly misused term CE approved.) Think there is room for a lot of basic education on the subject - and especially what the Technical Construction/Documentation File must contain, especially about the manufacturing control evidence side of the requirements. LVD Annex IV is a good guide - as summarised here http://www.era.co.uk/Docs/ECS/JA/CEMarkingDoCRequirements.pdf If most people understood that then they would not be so free with the statements they do make - and the files might then be of more use in the longterm. Regards John Allen, Technical Consultant EMC and Safety Engineering ERA Technology Ltd. Cleeve Road Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA UK Tel: +44-1372-367025 (Direct) +44-1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax: +44-1372-367102 Please take a minute to visit my web pages at http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp http://www.era.co.uk/services/rcm.asp and the main ERA Website at http://www.era.co.uk From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:kristiaan.carpent...@thomson.net] Sent: 02 August 2004 15:15 To: Brian O'Connell; peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Brain, Most testreports I read nowadays are 'CE testreports or CE certification reports. Taking a closer look to the content (for RTTE products), makes clear if it is a testreport for EMC, safety or Spectrum. I see many mails about CE certification and CE Certification marks and many manufacturers believe that their products can be CE-certified if there is a CE certification report, irrespective of its content. Regards, Kris -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Brian O'Connell Sent: maandag 2 augustus 2004 15:26 To: peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [ mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household Appliances, Audio/Video Appliances, Luminaires, Telecoms, Pressure Vessels, Medical, Telecoms, NOM (Mexico), CCC (China), S Mark (Argentina), GOST (Russia) etc., let me know either privately or via the emc-pstc list. Regards, Peter Merguerian --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Brain, Most testreports I read nowadays are 'CE testreports or CE certification reports. Taking a closer look to the content (for RTTE products), makes clear if it is a testreport for EMC, safety or Spectrum. I see many mails about CE certification and CE Certification marks and many manufacturers believe that their products can be CE-certified if there is a CE certification report, irrespective of its content. Regards, Kris -Original Message- From: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Brian O'Connell Sent: maandag 2 augustus 2004 15:26 To: peter merguerian; Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [ mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household Appliances, Audio/Video Appliances, Luminaires, Telecoms, Pressure Vessels, Medical, Telecoms, NOM (Mexico), CCC (China), S Mark (Argentina), GOST (Russia) etc., let me know either privately or via the emc-pstc list. Regards, Peter Merguerian --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- What is a CE Test Report ? thanks, Brian -Original Message- From: peter merguerian [ mailto:pmerguerian2...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 12:28 AM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: IEC and the CB Scheme Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household Appliances, Audio/Video Appliances, Luminaires, Telecoms, Pressure Vessels, Medical, Telecoms, NOM (Mexico), CCC (China), S Mark (Argentina), GOST (Russia) etc., let me know either privately or via the emc-pstc list. Regards, Peter Merguerian --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
Re: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Hello Dan, No, a CB Test Report is not required to make a European CE Declaration. Typically for CE, the manufacturer gets his product tested in his own accredited laboratory or at a third party laboratory and declares compliance with all the applicable Directives. The CB Test Report is not only for power supplies. You can get a CB to many categories including but not limited to: Household Appliances IEC60335 , Lasers (IEC825), ITE (IEC60950), Laboratory Measurement and Test Equipment (IEC61010), etc. etc. A CB Test Report allows you to test the product at one NCB appointed by the IEC in a particular country (say TUV Rheinland of North America) such that the test results are accepted by another NCB in another country (such as SII in Israel). Remember, Test Results only are usually accepted. However, some NCBs such as TUV Rheinland of North America have excellent rapports with various test agencies in the world, such that not only the test results are accepted but also the construction. By the way, you can cover the power supply and product in the same CB Test Report. Why pay the expense of doing two reports? A CB Test Report is not much more expensive than doing just a CE Test Report. For IEC60950-1, there are 25 countries participating countries - however, there are other countries who either are not an IEC member or have missed being in the Technical Bulletin, but who still accept CB Test Reports. If you have any other questions regarding CE, CB, GS, cTUVus Listing/Recognition/Clasification, Wi-Fi, NEBS, Ergonomics, ISO9000, Machinery, Household Appliances, Audio/Video Appliances, Luminaires, Telecoms, Pressure Vessels, Medical, Telecoms, NOM (Mexico), CCC (China), S Mark (Argentina), GOST (Russia) etc., let me know either privately or via the emc-pstc list. Regards, Peter Merguerian Dan Anchondo dancho...@vivotech.com wrote: http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- All Can somebody point to a link that requires a CB report for ITE for a CE safety report. My list of target countries has week to week changes so would it be useful to have a CB on my power supply? If I am forced to Ill have a CB report done but I am trying to limit currency flow to labs. Thanks Dan Anchondo Vivotech,Inc Santa Clara ,CA --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc _ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail http://us rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/10/*http: /promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail/static/efficiency.html - Send 10MB messages! --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- The CE Mark is a self Declaration and does not require a CB certification and report for you to self declare by creating a DoC and CE marking your product. In addition to the DoC and CE Mark on the product you are required to maintain a file, called a Technical Construction or Documentation File (depending on who you ask), where you keep all the test data, safety critical component compliance information, schematics, drawing etc which support your CE Mark declaration. If the compliance of your product is ever challenged by the authorities in the EU the CB report can be useful for you to be able to supply the information or test data to support your claim of compliance. It may also lend credibility with the authorities as it is issued by an EU National Certification Body (NCB), such as TUV Rheinland, UL,CSA, etc., as opposed to submitting your own test data. We get CB certifications on all our products and use the CB report as the main document in our CE TCF/TDF to support our CE Declaration. Keep in mind also that outside of the Europe the CE Mark is generally not recognized. We have found that, particularly in Asia, a CB report and certificate is useful in that for most countries you will not have to have the testing repeated when going for individual country marks saving time and money. CB reports for power supplies also save time and money as many Asian Test agencies will accept the power supply with little or no testing involved or construction review... IMHO a CB certification and report is one of the best investments you can make when trying to gain World Wide certification acceptance. From: owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org mailto:owner-emc-p...@listserv.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian O'Connell Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 4:28 PM To: Dan Anchondo; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: IEC and the CB Scheme http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Conflict of Interest Notice: My employer makes component power supplies. The CB report is not required, but life will probably be more pleasant if you use component power supplies that are covered by a CB report. If the unit has agency (e.g., UL, TUV, etc) and CE marks, and the certification indicates UL/EN60950-1, and you have do some additional Type Tests, I suppose that you should be able to get your end-use product certified, and a CB issued for your widget. It is very important that you, as the installer, observe the installation instructions and Conditions of Acceptability for the component power supply. If you submit at least (3) products per year, it may be worth your time and efforts to get SMT or WMT accreditation, so that you can perform tests and write your own CB reports. There is no such thing as a CE safety report. luck, Brian -Original Message- From: Dan Anchondo [ mailto:dancho...@vivotech.com] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 12:09 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: IEC and the CB Scheme All Can somebody point to a link that requires a CB report for ITE for a CE safety report. My list of target countries has week to week changes so would it be useful to have a CB on my power supply? If I am forced to Ill have a CB report done but I am trying to limit currency flow to labs. Thanks Dan Anchondo --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
RE: IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- Conflict of Interest Notice: My employer makes component power supplies. The CB report is not required, but life will probably be more pleasant if you use component power supplies that are covered by a CB report. If the unit has agency (e.g., UL, TUV, etc) and CE marks, and the certification indicates UL/EN60950-1, and you have do some additional Type Tests, I suppose that you should be able to get your end-use product certified, and a CB issued for your widget. It is very important that you, as the installer, observe the installation instructions and Conditions of Acceptability for the component power supply. If you submit at least (3) products per year, it may be worth your time and efforts to get SMT or WMT accreditation, so that you can perform tests and write your own CB reports. There is no such thing as a CE safety report. luck, Brian -Original Message- From: Dan Anchondo [ mailto:dancho...@vivotech.com] Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 12:09 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: IEC and the CB Scheme All Can somebody point to a link that requires a CB report for ITE for a CE safety report. My list of target countries has week to week changes so would it be useful to have a CB on my power supply? If I am forced to Ill have a CB report done but I am trying to limit currency flow to labs. Thanks Dan Anchondo --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
IEC and the CB Scheme
http://www.ieee-pses.org/symposium http://www.emc2004.org/ -- All Can somebody point to a link that requires a CB report for ITE for a CE safety report. My list of target countries has week to week changes so would it be useful to have a CB on my power supply? If I am forced to Ill have a CB report done but I am trying to limit currency flow to labs. Thanks Dan Anchondo Vivotech,Inc Santa Clara ,CA --- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. IEEE PSES Main Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ To post a message send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org Instructions for use of the list server: http://listserv.ieee.org/listserv/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: emc_p...@symbol.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieeecommunities.org/emc-pstc
CB Scheme vs CB-fcs Scheme
Hello Group, I would like to know if anyone has submitted product under the CB-fcs Scheme instead of the standard CB Scheme? What are the proven advantages and disadvantages? Any assistance in this would be greatly appreciated. David Cereceres Pelco mailto:dcerece...@pelco.com mailto:dcerece...@pelco.com http://www.pelco.com/ http://www.pelco.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: CB Scheme Participating Countries
Doug- an other interessing site is: http://www.yung-li.com.tw/Pages/info/Safety_Marks.htm Allan - Original Message - From: POWELL, DOUG doug.pow...@aei.com To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 4:08 AM Subject: CB Scheme Participating Countries Hello group, I don't know about you, but I've often struggled with finding a central location that displays a large number of safety agency logos and markings. This page on the IEC CB Scheme web site has a very comprehensive list with links to individual pages with information, addresses, logos and links back to the agency web site. http://www.iecee.org/cbscheme/cbcntris.htm I thought others might be interested in this as well. -doug = Douglas E. Powell Regulatory Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. 1625 Sharp Point Dr. Ft. Collins, Co 80525 mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com www.advanced-energy.com = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: CB Scheme Participating Countries
Doug, You might also try website http://www.power-cord.com/locator/symbols.htm for various International Approval Symbols. Best Regards,Paul J Smith Teradyne, Inc., Boston, MA 02111 paul.j.sm...@teradyne.com POWELL, DOUG doug.pow...@aei.com@ieee.org on 02/02/2001 03:08:01 PM Please respond to POWELL, DOUG doug.pow...@aei.com Sent by: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org To: EMC-PSTC (E-mail) emc-p...@ieee.org cc: Subject: CB Scheme Participating Countries Hello group, I don't know about you, but I've often struggled with finding a central location that displays a large number of safety agency logos and markings. This page on the IEC CB Scheme web site has a very comprehensive list with links to individual pages with information, addresses, logos and links back to the agency web site. http://www.iecee.org/cbscheme/cbcntris.htm I thought others might be interested in this as well. -doug = Douglas E. Powell Regulatory Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. 1625 Sharp Point Dr. Ft. Collins, Co 80525 mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com www.advanced-energy.com = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Participant bodies of CB scheme
Raymond, following web site answers your question http://www.cbscheme.org/cbcntris.htm Best Regards Fred Adt Raymond Li raymond...@omnisourceasia.com.hk 11/21/00 07:13PM Can anyone tell me where I can find a list of participant bodies/laboratories of CB scheme. Thanks, Raymond Li Omni Source Asia Ltd --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org compliance reliability manager a...@viewsonic.com phone (909) 444-8958 --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: Participant bodies of CB scheme
Have a look in: http://www.cbscheme.org/cbcntris.htm - Click on the country /NCB that you are interested in. - From there you then have the possibility to click on this NCB`s CBTLs (NCB laboratory) Best Regards /Randolf Raymond Li Raymond.Li@OmniSourceAsTo: EMC-PSTC Listing emc-p...@ieee.org ia.com.HK cc: Sent by:Subject: Participant bodies of CB scheme owner-emc-p...@ieee.org 00/11/22 12:13 PM Please respond to Raymond Li Can anyone tell me where I can find a list of participant bodies/laboratories of CB scheme. Thanks, Raymond Li Omni Source Asia Ltd --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Participant bodies of CB scheme
Can anyone tell me where I can find a list of participant bodies/laboratories of CB scheme. Thanks, Raymond Li Omni Source Asia Ltd --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
CB Scheme
I thank all those who corrected my posted URL for the CB Scheme! After 37 years of professional experience, I could claim that the clock rate of the CPU in my head is the same as 1963, but that my fingers are far faster. Alas, I fear the opposite is the more likely scenario. George --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
AS/NZS 60950 (just published) and IEC 60950 (CB Scheme)
To all, Now that Australia and New Zealand have published their version of IEC 60950 3rd edition and with the US Canada nearing final approval of UL 60950 3rd edition and with (as I understand it) CENELEC nearing release of EN 60950 3rd edition, where is the CB Scheme positioned? When will the CB Scheme accept/issue certificates/test reports to IEC 60950 3rd edition? Will there be a transition period? We, and I'm sure there are others, need this information so as to plan for the future. Maybe someone with knowledge of this information can comment. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: EN45001 and Re: CB SCHEME
What are test reports according to EN45001? The EN45001 is the European standard for General requirements for the competence of testing and calibration laboratories. Test reports according to this standard are usually issued after an audit or assessment of the laboratory. Does EN45001 have relation to CB Scheme? Laboratory assessments within the CB-scheme have been based on the ISO/IEC Guide 25 (General requirements for the competence of calibration and testing laboratories) in the past, but will be done acc. to the newer version ISO/IEC 17025 (General requirements for the competence of testing and calibration laboratories) which was published 1999-12-15, in the future. The requirements of the EN and the ISO/IEC are similar but not equivalent. Kind Regards, /Randolf Keller TUV Rheinland Japan Ltd., Yokohama Laboratories Randolf Keller, Manager e-mail: r...@jpn.tuv.com Tel: +81-45-592-1371 Fax: +81-45-592-1374 jakamura@naka.m elco.co.jp To: emc-pstc emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent by: cc: owner-emc-pstc@Subject: EN45001 and Re: CB SCHEME ieee.org 21.03.00 21:39 Please respond to jakamura Dear All, --- Mr. Michael and Mr. Alspaugh Thank you very much for your replies to my CB Scheme question. --- NEW QUESTION: What are test reports according to EN45001? Does EN45001 have relation to CB Scheme? Thank you in advance, Jun Nakamura --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: EN45001 and Re: CB SCHEME
Hi George, FYI, EN45001 relates to laboratory qualilty systems and EN45014 (latest version I have is 1993) relates to the DofC. Best regards, Ron Pickard rpick...@hypercom.com georgea@lexma rk.com To: jakam...@naka.melco.co.jp Sent by: cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org owner-emc-pstSubject: Re: EN45001 and Re: CB SCHEME c...@ieee.org 03/21/00 01:10 PM Please respond to georgea Nakamura-san, If my memory serves, EN45001 is a European Norm (EN) for a Declaration of Conformity. I believe it existed prior to the CB Scheme. However, it is one of several acceptable means to declare conformity to the applicable EU Directives. George Alspaugh jakamura%naka.melco.co...@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/21/2000 07:39:56 AM Please respond to jakamura%naka.melco.co...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: EN45001 and Re: CB SCHEME Dear All, --- Mr. Michael and Mr. Alspaugh Thank you very much for your replies to my CB Scheme question. --- NEW QUESTION: What are test reports according to EN45001? Does EN45001 have relation to CB Scheme? Thank you in advance, Jun Nakamura --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: EN45001 and Re: CB SCHEME
Nakamura-san, If my memory serves, EN45001 is a European Norm (EN) for a Declaration of Conformity. I believe it existed prior to the CB Scheme. However, it is one of several acceptable means to declare conformity to the applicable EU Directives. George Alspaugh jakamura%naka.melco.co...@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/21/2000 07:39:56 AM Please respond to jakamura%naka.melco.co...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: EN45001 and Re: CB SCHEME Dear All, --- Mr. Michael and Mr. Alspaugh Thank you very much for your replies to my CB Scheme question. --- NEW QUESTION: What are test reports according to EN45001? Does EN45001 have relation to CB Scheme? Thank you in advance, Jun Nakamura --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
EN45001 and Re: CB SCHEME
Dear All, --- Mr. Michael and Mr. Alspaugh Thank you very much for your replies to my CB Scheme question. --- NEW QUESTION: What are test reports according to EN45001? Does EN45001 have relation to CB Scheme? Thank you in advance, Jun Nakamura --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: CB SCHEME
Hello Mr. Nakamura, The CB-Scheme in an international scheme, under the auspices of the IEC, which provides a means for acceptance of test-data (and reports - in some cases) between the testing certification agencies of 30+ countries. There is no direct relationship to LVD and EMC directives although products which fall under the LVD may be served by the CB-Scheme. The main website is at www.cbscheme.org Regards, Art Michael Int'l Product Safety News A.E. Michael, Editor 166 Congdon St. East P.O. Box 1561 Middletown CT 06457 U.S.A. Phone : (860) 344-1651 Fax: (860) 346-9066 Email : i...@connix.com Website: http://www.safetylink.com ISSN : 1040-7529 On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 jakam...@naka.melco.co.jp wrote: Dear All, What is CB SCHEME? and the relation to the LVD and EMC? Thank you in advance, Jun Nakamura --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
Re: CB SCHEME
Dear Nakamura-san; The best explanation of the CB Scheme is at www.cbscheme.org . It is a global reciprocity agreement dealing with IEC 60950 for the safety of ITE products. If one CB (certification body) generates a CB test report for a product, all other members are to accept the test results unless they discover an error in the report. Testing to IEC 60950, plus any country differences, is one of several ways to show conformity to the LVD. It has nothing to do with the EMC Directive. Regards, George Alspaugh jakamura%naka.melco.co...@interlock.lexmark.com on 03/20/2000 07:20:47 AM Please respond to jakamura%naka.melco.co...@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: CB SCHEME Dear All, What is CB SCHEME? and the relation to the LVD and EMC? Thank you in advance, Jun Nakamura --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
CB SCHEME
Dear All, What is CB SCHEME? and the relation to the LVD and EMC? Thank you in advance, Jun Nakamura --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Jim Bacher: jim_bac...@mail.monarch.com Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org
CB Scheme Points of Interest
There are several questions that periodically arise regarding country standards and so on. A page in a recent CB Bulletin summarizes a good deal of information that may be helpful. CB Bulletin OJ No. 94AI, March 1999 Page 97 The matrix on this page lists: 31 participating CB Scheme countries 31 country abbreviations often used for each country in CBs 24 countries which list their National standard 18 countries indicate presence of Group differences (to IEC 60950 2nd ed. + Amendments 1,2,3,4) 15 countries indicate presence of National differences (to IEC 60950 2nd ed. + Amendments 1,2,3,4) 9 countries indicate presence of both Group and National differences (included in the 18 + 15 above) 7 countries indicate no Group or National differences 4 countries listing a National standard, but no differences 1 country (Greece) where NCB recognizes, but does not issue, CB Certificates/Test Reports The publishing body (IECEE) allows reproduction of articles or parts of CB Bulletins as long as the source is mentioned. You may request a fax copy from me, but I cannot guarantee when this will occur if the number of requests exceeds a dozen or so. Regards, George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE and CSA and CB Scheme and MOUs
Lisa, Group, here's my two bits worth, for what it's worth... I'm on the CSA Code Committee for the 'industrial' bits of CSA's adoption the the original 1010-1 Document, authored by the IEC. CSA has adopted it verbatim, with a number of National Deviations and the addition of Amendment 1, all tacked on the end to become CSA 1010-1. Since then, the base document, IEC 1010-1 was also adopted, or 'Journaled', by CENELEC, to be re-named as the European Norm, EN61010-1, and they too adopted it with Amendment 1 but they added Amendment 2 as well. So CSA's 1010 and the European Norm, 1010 are very similar except for the National Deviations for Canada added for the CSA version, and the 2nd amendment added for European Norm. That's the 1010 standard's origin, but to fully answer your question, you'd need to clarify what exactly you have for a 'CE Mark Report'. If it's just a self declaration report, not written by a Notified Body in Europe or an accredited test house from elsewhere having a memorandum of understating (MOU) with CSA, CSA CAN'T Accept any of the testing data provided there-in. If it's written by a Notified Body, or an agency with an CSA MOU, they will accept the data, and use what they can to proceed. They WILL, however have to cover the national deviations for Canada with whatever testing may additionally be required. A third option you may have is the CB Scheme route, where if a CB (Certified Body) member agency in any one of the 40(??) or so subscribing countries wrote the 1010 report, they could have also done all of the work for you to cover any CB member state's national deviations, including Canada's. CSA would accept that data with essentially a rubber stamp approval. CBs can also do the 2nd Amendment testing for you too, to allow the CB Report to be used for a CE Mark Report. So, I hope that one of these three scenarios answers your question, but if you need more clarification, feel free to contact me directly!! Best regards and Merry Christmas to you all your Compliance folk!! Rob Stirling, P.Eng. Protocol For COMPLETE safety, EMC, and regulatory Compliance Engineering solutions call Protocol!! ph 604 218 1762 fax 604 572 9408 Vancouver B.C. lisa_cef...@mksinst.com wrote: Maybe someone can clarify this for me. I have a product which is currently CE approved including LVD to 61010 that I also wish to have CSA approved for use in Canada. I know at one time there were conflicting requirements but now I believe that CSA uses 61010 as well. What is involved in getting both approvals? Does it require a retest by CSA to verify 61010 compliance or will they accept the report done for the CE mark? Any help would be appreciated. Happy Holidays! Lisa - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CB SCHEME
Well, this has been rather informative, but the CB scheme as I understand it is specific about exactly what test data is involved. Right now, it's mainly safety related testing, no? In other words, you could be testing a product in country A who participates in the CB Scheme. The tests may involve emissions, immunity, safety and telephone. Submitting your product to country B who also participates in the CB Scheme may mean that country B will accept ONLY the tests involved with safety and none of the other tests. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CB SCHEME
The CB Scheme is a standard set of tests to IEC 950 (now IEC 60950) requirements. It does not include emissions, immunity, and telephone requirements beyond IEC 60950. For example, the Nordic countries used to require both safety and EMC data for approval to use their marks. As a result of the EU Directives, and use of the CE marking, the EMC data is no longer required as part of the approval process in these countries. Where EMC and health (e.g. chemical emissions) issues must be satisfied as well, they are in addition to the CB Scheme, not a part of it. Although EMC requirements are fairly consistent (CISPR 22), the requirements for health, recycling, manual content etc. are not. Thus far, there is no global reciprocal scheme that addresses EMC, health, telephone, etc. George R. Alspaugh Lexmark International -- Forwarded by George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark on 09/16/98 08:42 AM --- Please respond to Douglas Mckean dmckean%corp.auspex@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark Subject: Re: CB SCHEME Well, this has been rather informative, but the CB scheme as I understand it is specific about exactly what test data is involved. Right now, it's mainly safety related testing, no? In other words, you could be testing a product in country A who participates in the CB Scheme. The tests may involve emissions, immunity, safety and telephone. Submitting your product to country B who also participates in the CB Scheme may mean that country B will accept ONLY the tests involved with safety and none of the other tests. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CB SCHEME
Hello George Doug, The CB Scheme, providing for the mutual acceptance of electrical safety test data, among 30+ countries, covers 14+ product categories and is certainly not limited to ITE. An extension of the CB Scheme to provide for the mutual acceptance of EMC test data has been in effect for more than a year. The list of participants, at this juncture, is smaller than the list of those that accept each other's safety test data. Another expansion of the CB Scheme is called the FCS (Full Certification Scheme). The intent of this program, (not quite yet implemented - to my knowledge), is to provide a means for the sharing of the full certification, not just sharing of the test data. To keep up-to-date on these useful Schemes, one should subscribe to the CB Bulletin which is a bargain at less than US$100.00 per year. For this fee you will receive 4 numbered volumes per year (some of them are more than one issue) totalling more than 4 (10 cm) of material. This publication details the participating countries and labs, sources for test equipment, changes in rules, product areas covered by each participatant and much-much more. The CB-Scheme also has a website (see note below). Subscriptions can be purchased from your IEC National Certification Body (NCB) or directly from the IEC. Links for the IEC and the CB Scheme (and many others) can be found on the Safety Link: www.safetylink.com Regards, Art Michael, Editor -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- |http://www.safetylink.com | || | The Safety Link is the most comprehensive collection | |of product safety and standards links on the WEB| |Check our latest offer | || || | Int'l Product Safety News | | Celebrating our 10th Aniversary, 1988-1998 | || | P.O.Box 1561 - WWW | |Middletown CT 06457-8061 U.S.A. | | Phone: (860) 344-1651 Fax: (860) 346-9066 | |email: i...@connix.com | -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- On Wed, 16 Sep 1998 geor...@lexmark.com wrote: The CB Scheme is a standard set of tests to IEC 950 (now IEC 60950) requirements. It does not include emissions, immunity, and telephone requirements beyond IEC 60950. For example, the Nordic countries used to require both safety and EMC data for approval to use their marks. As a result of the EU Directives, and use of the CE marking, the EMC data is no longer required as part of the approval process in these countries. Where EMC and health (e.g. chemical emissions) issues must be satisfied as well, they are in addition to the CB Scheme, not a part of it. Although EMC requirements are fairly consistent (CISPR 22), the requirements for health, recycling, manual content etc. are not. Thus far, there is no global reciprocal scheme that addresses EMC, health, telephone, etc. George R. Alspaugh Lexmark International -- Forwarded by George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark on 09/16/98 08:42 AM --- Please respond to Douglas Mckean dmckean%corp.auspex@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark Subject: Re: CB SCHEME Well, this has been rather informative, but the CB scheme as I understand it is specific about exactly what test data is involved. Right now, it's mainly safety related testing, no? In other words, you could be testing a product in country A who participates in the CB Scheme. The tests may involve emissions, immunity, safety and telephone. Submitting your product to country B who also participates in the CB Scheme may mean that country B will accept ONLY the tests involved with safety and none of the other tests. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j
Re: CB SCHEME
Yes Douglas, CB scheme is only related to Safety and has nothing to do with EMC and Telecom. --Barry Ma. - Original Text From: Douglas Mckean dmck...@corp.auspex.com, on 9/15/98 5:36 PM: Well, this has been rather informative, but the CB scheme as I understand it is specific about exactly what test data is involved. Right now, it's mainly safety related testing, no? In other words, you could be testing a product in country A who participates in the CB Scheme. The tests may involve emissions, immunity, safety and telephone. Submitting your product to country B who also participates in the CB Scheme may mean that country B will accept ONLY the tests involved with safety and none of the other tests. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
CB SCHEME
I would like to clarify a misconception about the CB SCHEME stated in Mr. Juan P. Pena's contribution to the PSTC current conversation. e.g.; The CB scheme only works with the official organization in every country (UL in USA, VDE in Germany, etc.). For example, all the German TUV's are outside the CB scheme. Are they technically competent? Most countries have a single test agency that is their official organization, but this is not true everywhere. The two countries that were used as an example happen to have more than one. In the United States, there is no single official test organization. There are several NRTL's all equal in the eyes of their accrediting body, OSHA. Out of those that are NRTL's, some happen to be NCB's in the CB SCHEME. All equal in the eyes of the IEC. Therefore, there is no official NCB that represents the United States. In addition, Germany does have more than one accredited test house. I can't begin to name them all. However, to set the record straight, both TUV Rheinland and TUV Product service are an accredited NCB of the CB SCHEME. They are both technically competent to do the job they were accredited for. These are my views, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of my employer. Anton (Tony) J. Nikolassy Factory Mutual Research Corp. Ph: 781-255-4819 Fx: 781-762-9375 Anton (Tony) J. Nikolassy Project Engineer, Electrical Section Factory Mutual Research Corp. Ph: 781-255-4819 Fx: 781-762-9375 - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.co (the list administrators).
Re: CB SCHEME
Hello from San Diego: A complete list of CB Scheme NCBs is available at: http://www.cbscheme.org/cbcntris.htm The following countries have multiple NCBs: Germany VDE TUV Rheinland TUV Product Service India BIS STQC U.K. BEAB BSI ASTA USA UL MET ETL FMRC TUV Rheinland of North America The CB Scheme is a means for the exchange of TEST DATA among NCBs. The NRTL scheme is a USA means for accreditation of certification houses and their certification marks for the purpose of accepting electrical products as safe for the workplace. A complete list of NRTLs is available at: http://www.osha-slc.gov/SLTC/nrtl/index.html The NRTLs are: American Gas Association (AGA) Applied Research Laboratories, Inc. (ARL) Canadian Standards Association (CSA) Communication Certification Laboratory (CCL) Detroit Testing Laboratory, Inc. (DTL) Electro-Test, Inc. (ETI) Entela, Inc. (ENT) Factory Mutual Research Corporation (FMRC) Intertek Testing Services NA, Inc. (ITS) (formerly ETL) MET Laboratories, Inc. (MET) Southwest Research Institute (SWRI) TUV Rheinland of North America, Inc. (TUV) Underwriters Laboratories (UL) Wyle Laboratories (WL) SGS Testing Company, Inc. (SGS) (formerly UST-CA) There is NO RELATIONSHIP between the CB Scheme and the USA-OSHA NRTL accreditation scheme. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group All-In-One Division Tel : +1 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.co (the list administrators).
CB SCHEME
After going looking at the site Rich Nute provided, I see no reference to South American countries. Are South America countries part of the CB scheme as well? - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.co (the list administrators).
Re: CB SCHEME
There are no South American countries currently participating in the CB Scheme. George Alspaugh Lexmark International Please respond to rbusche%es@interlock.lexmark.com To: emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark Subject: CB SCHEME After going looking at the site Rich Nute provided, I see no reference to South American countries. Are South America countries part of the CB scheme as well? - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.co (the list administrators).
Re: CB SCHEME
Hi Rick: After going looking at the site Rich Nute provided, I see no reference to South American countries. Are South America countries part of the CB scheme as well? Nope. And none in Central America. Only one in Africa. Only three in Asia (China, Japan, and Singapore). Only Israel in the Middle East. Australia, but not New Zealand! Remember, the CB Scheme is a scheme of mutual acceptance of TEST DATA for the purpose of safety certification. This pre-supposes that safety certification is required in the country of the NCB. As Art Michael pointed out to me in a private e-mail, a pre-requisite for acceptance as an NCB in the CB Scheme is that the NCB be a nationally-recognized certification house. (Obvious?!!) The presumption is that the NCB will accept CB test data for the purpose of national safety certification. If there are no national laws or rules for safety certification of products, then there cannot be an NCB. So, one indicator that safety certification is required in a country is whether or not the country has an NCB. However, the absence of an NCB does not mean that safety certification is not required. Consider Mexico and now Argentina. Best regards, Rich - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.com with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.co (the list administrators).
RE: CB scheme
Dear Colleagues, 1). If the subject is the CB Scheme, then we know that in Canada ONLY CSA is accredited to perform Test and Evaluation in order to issue a CB Scheme Report (Certificate). In the USA, several locations of Intertek Testing Services have the accreditation for this job. I will strongly recommend the ITS Boxborough location, Phone Nr.1 978 263 2662 or 1800 WORLDLAB(967-5352). 2). If we are discussing CERTIFICATION for US and(or) CANADA, yes, ITS is entitled to do this job in Canada as well( ETL, cETL , Warnock Hersey Marks), they have several locations, please call 1800 WORLDLAB (967-5352) for the nearest location. Constantin Bolintineanu P.Eng Product Safety Engineer bolin...@dscltd.com The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employer. -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [SMTP:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 1:11 PM To: horst.h...@intertest.de Cc: ri...@sdd.hp.com; je...@intertest.net; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: CB scheme Hello Horst: this message was new for me. Does there existing certifiers for Canada and USA in addition to CSA and UL ? (for both countries) Horst In addition to CSA and UL, the following certification houses offer certifications acceptable in both Canada and USA: Intertek Testing Services (formerly ETL) http://www.worldlab.com/ MET Laboratories http://www.metlabs.com/ There may be others. The home pages for both of these organizations specifically mention that their certification marks are accepted in BOTH countries. The MET page links to another page which quotes the accreditation from the Standards Council of Canada. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Quality Department Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group San Diego Division (SDD) Tel : 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - You cannot hold back a good laugh any more than you can the tide. Both are forces of nature. -- William Rotsler
RE: CB scheme
Russia requires that you obtain a GOST-R mark. There are a few organizations that can obtain the mark for you. Just having the CB report will not get you in to the country. You must arrange for the GOST-R mark, through one of the approved agencies. The process can be very cumbersome. Having a CB report is useful, but, unfortunately is only the beginning. This is one of those examples of the CB scheme not being the 'be-all' and 'end-all', but it certainly helps. If you would like further information, please feel free to contact me. Bob Martin Sr. Technical Manager - Northeast Intertek Testing Services (978)635-8606 fax(978)263-7086 r...@itsqs.com -- From: Grasso, Charles (Chaz) To: 'emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org'; 'Peter Tarver' Subject: RE: CB scheme List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 9:48AM I have been told that the Russian Authorities will only accept a CB report from Nemko. Is this true? Thank you Charles Grasso EMC Engineer StorageTek 2270 Sth 88th Street Louisville CO 80027 MS 4262 gra...@louisville.stortek.com Tel:(303)673-2908 Fax(303)661-7115 Symposium Website URL: http://www.ball.com/aerospace/ieee_emc.html -- From: Peter Tarver[SMTP:peter.tarver.ptar...@nt.com] Reply To: Peter Tarver Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 4:28 PM To:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: CB scheme Gary - You seem to be doing just fine for your current market. As you market expands (you mentioned GOST), however, the CB Scheme Test Report does offer portability to a greater degree than a lesser. Many of the agencies will want a sample for a looksee, a few may want to perform minor verification tests or testing to accommodate applicable national deviations from the base standard. Overall, you will save time and inventory, but not necessarily money, by using the CB Scheme. Without it, you might wind up having to provide one or more samples to any of several test houses. Alternatively, you could also look into what Mutual Recognition Agreements your domestic test house has with foreign test houses to see if they meet your needs. Regards, Peter L. Tarver Nortel ptar...@nt.com -- From:Gary McInturff[SMTP:gmcintu...@packetengines.com] Sent:Monday, June 22, 1998 9:09 AM If ignorance is bliss I must be a pretty happy guy. I have sort of avoided asking this question because I seem to be the only guy that doesn't fully understand the answer to this question. Currently I use the standard US/Canadian private label mark and one from Germany to meet the appropriate safety requirements. Our principle market are US, Europe, and Japan. I can get both the US and European investigations done concurrently with the same product samples, and I have yet to have a problem getting the equipment accepted by either the clients or the countries in which they reside. Given that what are the advantages I am not seeing in a CB scheme report? On the face of it a CB scheme report seems to be the proverbial one-stop-shopping solution we would all like to see. But as I check into it further a CB report doesn't seem to really provide a final answer. Each agency still has the prerogative of requesting samples although they may accept the test data from the CB approved lab. (UL for example indicated they probably would want a sample along with the report). Whether the issue is testing or product evaluation having to have some agency put me in their queue for approval seems to be a big step backwards. Currently, having recognized private label marks for Europe and the US has yet to cause a hitch in the normal customer base shipments. GOST and NOM are on the horizon and I suppose that because I have to send them products anyway because they are not part of the EC and want their own marks it suggests that a CB report might be beneficial in this case in speeding up the approval but overall I don't see a significant benefit to a CB scheme instead of my current approach. Am I missing the obvious? Am I making my life more difficult and expensive than it should be?
Re: CB scheme
Hi Charles: I have been told that the Russian Authorities will only accept a CB report from Nemko. Is this true? I don't believe this is true as this is against the basic idea of the CB Scheme. A CB Certificate and Test Report is universal, regardless of the issuing organization. According to IECEE 02, if one NCB should discover a problem in a Report or in the processes of another NCB, then it must first notify the issuing NCB of the problem and work it out. If this does not solve the problem, then the NCB must notify the IECEE where the problem will be resolved. Also, such a statement is not made by GOST in the CB Scheme website: http://www.cbscheme.org/country/cbrussia.htm Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Quality Department Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group San Diego Division (SDD) Tel : 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - Often the best way to win is to forget to keep score. -- Marianne Espinosa Murphy
RE: CB scheme
I have been told that the Russian Authorities will only accept a CB report from Nemko. Is this true? Thank you Charles Grasso EMC Engineer StorageTek 2270 Sth 88th Street Louisville CO 80027 MS 4262 gra...@louisville.stortek.com Tel:(303)673-2908 Fax(303)661-7115 Symposium Website URL: http://www.ball.com/aerospace/ieee_emc.html -- From: Peter Tarver[SMTP:peter.tarver.ptar...@nt.com] Reply To: Peter Tarver Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 4:28 PM To:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: CB scheme Gary - You seem to be doing just fine for your current market. As you market expands (you mentioned GOST), however, the CB Scheme Test Report does offer portability to a greater degree than a lesser. Many of the agencies will want a sample for a looksee, a few may want to perform minor verification tests or testing to accommodate applicable national deviations from the base standard. Overall, you will save time and inventory, but not necessarily money, by using the CB Scheme. Without it, you might wind up having to provide one or more samples to any of several test houses. Alternatively, you could also look into what Mutual Recognition Agreements your domestic test house has with foreign test houses to see if they meet your needs. Regards, Peter L. Tarver Nortel ptar...@nt.com -- From:Gary McInturff[SMTP:gmcintu...@packetengines.com] Sent:Monday, June 22, 1998 9:09 AM If ignorance is bliss I must be a pretty happy guy. I have sort of avoided asking this question because I seem to be the only guy that doesn't fully understand the answer to this question. Currently I use the standard US/Canadian private label mark and one from Germany to meet the appropriate safety requirements. Our principle market are US, Europe, and Japan. I can get both the US and European investigations done concurrently with the same product samples, and I have yet to have a problem getting the equipment accepted by either the clients or the countries in which they reside. Given that what are the advantages I am not seeing in a CB scheme report? On the face of it a CB scheme report seems to be the proverbial one-stop-shopping solution we would all like to see. But as I check into it further a CB report doesn't seem to really provide a final answer. Each agency still has the prerogative of requesting samples although they may accept the test data from the CB approved lab. (UL for example indicated they probably would want a sample along with the report). Whether the issue is testing or product evaluation having to have some agency put me in their queue for approval seems to be a big step backwards. Currently, having recognized private label marks for Europe and the US has yet to cause a hitch in the normal customer base shipments. GOST and NOM are on the horizon and I suppose that because I have to send them products anyway because they are not part of the EC and want their own marks it suggests that a CB report might be beneficial in this case in speeding up the approval but overall I don't see a significant benefit to a CB scheme instead of my current approach. Am I missing the obvious? Am I making my life more difficult and expensive than it should be?
RE: CB scheme
Gary - You seem to be doing just fine for your current market. As you market expands (you mentioned GOST), however, the CB Scheme Test Report does offer portability to a greater degree than a lesser. Many of the agencies will want a sample for a looksee, a few may want to perform minor verification tests or testing to accommodate applicable national deviations from the base standard. Overall, you will save time and inventory, but not necessarily money, by using the CB Scheme. Without it, you might wind up having to provide one or more samples to any of several test houses. Alternatively, you could also look into what Mutual Recognition Agreements your domestic test house has with foreign test houses to see if they meet your needs. Regards, Peter L. Tarver Nortel ptar...@nt.com -- From: Gary McInturff[SMTP:gmcintu...@packetengines.com] Sent: Monday, June 22, 1998 9:09 AM If ignorance is bliss I must be a pretty happy guy. I have sort of avoided asking this question because I seem to be the only guy that doesn't fully understand the answer to this question. Currently I use the standard US/Canadian private label mark and one from Germany to meet the appropriate safety requirements. Our principle market are US, Europe, and Japan. I can get both the US and European investigations done concurrently with the same product samples, and I have yet to have a problem getting the equipment accepted by either the clients or the countries in which they reside. Given that what are the advantages I am not seeing in a CB scheme report? On the face of it a CB scheme report seems to be the proverbial one-stop-shopping solution we would all like to see. But as I check into it further a CB report doesn't seem to really provide a final answer. Each agency still has the prerogative of requesting samples although they may accept the test data from the CB approved lab. (UL for example indicated they probably would want a sample along with the report). Whether the issue is testing or product evaluation having to have some agency put me in their queue for approval seems to be a big step backwards. Currently, having recognized private label marks for Europe and the US has yet to cause a hitch in the normal customer base shipments. GOST and NOM are on the horizon and I suppose that because I have to send them products anyway because they are not part of the EC and want their own marks it suggests that a CB report might be beneficial in this case in speeding up the approval but overall I don't see a significant benefit to a CB scheme instead of my current approach. Am I missing the obvious? Am I making my life more difficult and expensive than it should be?
Re: CB scheme
Hi Gary: In the USA and Canada, third-party safety certification is mandated by OSHA, the NEC, and Canadian provincial laws. There are many third-party certifiers who can provide one mark acceptable in both countries. If you were not using a certifier acceptable to both countries, a CB Certificate and Test Report would facilitate getting either or both certification marks. In Europe, third-party safety certification is not required, but first-party safety certification is required. This is demonstrated by the CE mark on the product. However, the use of the CE mark must be backed up by a safety report showing compliance to the Low Voltage Directive. Typically this is done by showing compliance to a harmonized safety standard. The manufacturer can write this report, or a third-party can write this report. One acceptable third-party report is a CB Certificate and Test Report. If your German certifier provides you with a suitable LVD report, then you are in good shape. However, if you bought a CB Certificate and Test Report from your North American certifier at the same time you bought your USA and Canadian certifications, you would not need to submit your product to the German certifier. The cost of one test (i.e., CB test), is probably less than two tests (e.g., North America and Germany). As for submittals using the CB Scheme, IECEE 02 Sub-clause 6.3.5 states: The NCBs are encouraged to handle applications for recognition of CB Test Certificates on a priority basis. In practice, most NCBs will issue certifications in 4 weeks or less. So, using the CB Scheme means that you should get certification faster than submitting directly. Japan is a member of the CB Scheme. However, not all products need be third-party certified in Japan. Mexico is not a member of the CB Scheme. The CB Test Report is ignored if submitted with the product. Russia's GOST is a member of the CB Scheme, but not for all product categories. So, you may or may not be able to obtain certification from a CB Certificate and Test Report, depending on what kind of product you have. For a definitive list of CB Scheme countries and product categories, see: http://www.cbscheme.org/cbcntris.htm Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Quality Department Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group San Diego Division (SDD) Tel : 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - If dandelions were hard to grow, they would be most welcome on any lawn. -- Andrew V. Mason
CB scheme
If ignorance is bliss I must be a pretty happy guy. I have sort of avoided asking this question because I seem to be the only guy that doesn't fully understand the answer to this question. Currently I use the standard US/Canadian private label mark and one from Germany to meet the appropriate safety requirements. Our principle market are US, Europe, and Japan. I can get both the US and European investigations done concurrently with the same product samples, and I have yet to have a problem getting the equipment accepted by either the clients or the countries in which they reside. Given that what are the advantages I am not seeing in a CB scheme report? On the face of it a CB scheme report seems to be the proverbial one-stop-shopping solution we would all like to see. But as I check into it further a CB report doesn't seem to really provide a final answer. Each agency still has the prerogative of requesting samples although they may accept the test data from the CB approved lab. (UL for example indicated they probably would want a sample along with the report). Whether the issue is testing or product evaluation having to have some agency put me in their queue for approval seems to be a big step backwards. Currently, having recognized private label marks for Europe and the US has yet to cause a hitch in the normal customer base shipments. GOST and NOM are on the horizon and I suppose that because I have to send them products anyway because they are not part of the EC and want their own marks it suggests that a CB report might be beneficial in this case in speeding up the approval but overall I don't see a significant benefit to a CB scheme instead of my current approach. Am I missing the obvious? Am I making my life more difficult and expensive than it should be?
RE: List Of Countries in CB Scheme
UL, BSI, or CSA would, I'm sure be happy to help, especially if you've done buisiness with them. The operator at UL would be able to direct your call. They may even help you obtain the different national deviations to IEC 950. Hope this helps, Mel Pedersen Midcom, Inc. Homologations Engineer Phone: (605) 882-8535 mpeder...@midcom.anza.com Fax: (605) 886-6752 -- From: Michael Cusanelli[SMTP:m...@phihongusa.com] Sent: Monday, January 19, 1998 6:19 PM To: emc- pstc Subject:List Of Countries in CB Scheme Does anyone know where I can get a lisiting of all the countires who are part of the CB Scheme for IEC950? Regards, Michael Cusanelli Phihong USA
List of countries in the CB Scheme
PSNet The most definitive way to get the list of countries that are accepted into the CB Scheme is to subscribe to the CB Bulletin OC. This may be ordered thru your National Certification Body else subscribe directly thru the IEC office in Geneva. - - - - - Peter E Perkins Principal Product Safety Consultant Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 +1/503/452-1201 phone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org email visit our website: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/peperkins - - - - -
Re: List Of Countries in CB Scheme
Hello Michael The best source of information is the CB Bulletin, a subscription publication which costs less than US$100.00 per year. It can be ordered from ANSI (in the US) or IEC (in Geneva). Beyond that, try the CB Scheme website at: http://www.cbscheme.org where you will find a tabulation of participating countries. The CB Scheme currently has 34 countries participating in one (or more) product categories. (or go to the Safety Link (http://www.safetylink.com) where you will find the CB Scheme link and 400 others) Regards, Art Michael * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * International Product Safety News * *Check out our current offer on the * * Safety Link at http://www.safetylink.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Michael Cusanelli wrote: Does anyone know where I can get a lisiting of all the countires who are part of the CB Scheme for IEC950? Regards, Michael Cusanelli Phihong USA
List Of Countries in CB Scheme
Does anyone know where I can get a lisiting of all the countires who are part of the CB Scheme for IEC950? Regards, Michael Cusanelli Phihong USA
Re: CB Scheme - Body One and Body Two ...
Thank you Rolf, So here's another question - If a company from outside the US wants to use the CB Scheme, who is the Body A within the US so that they can go to a Body B in say India or China? I am assuming the CB Scheme is valid for the following products: IEC 950,Information Technology IEC 601 601 Medical Equipment IEC 1010Series, Laboratory, Measurement and Control Equipment IEC 335 Appliances IEC 65, Audio/Video IEC 745 Portable Tools IEC 1029Bench Tools IEC 730 Controls for Appliances IEC 742 Safety Isolating Transformers IEC 342 Fans I am also assuming the following countries are participating within the CB Scheme Austria Australia Belgium Canada China Czech Republic Denmark Finland France Germany Greece Hungary India Ireland Israel Italy Japan Korea Netherlands New Zealand Norway Poland Russia Singapore Sweden Switzerland Ukraine United Kingdom United States Yugoslavia
IECEE CB Scheme Summary
The point I was trying to relate was one of an experience with the CB scheme and Telecom equipment. I wanted to point out that for TTE in Australia you need to have an electrical safety test done. The testing must be done by an Austel accredited (NAMAS) lab. And the safety standard for telecom equipment is AS 3260 based on IEC 950. Therefore the CB Scheme will not work at face value. In a later email by Tom Smith he pointed out that the CB report can be used by the NAMAS lab to generate the AS 3260 report. In fact that was the same approach we used 3 years ago when we had this problem. We got it done; it just took added steps, the CB scheme had to be reviewed by another lab and another fee was paid. TIPS IECEE is the organization of the CB scheme. there address and phone is ( this info is at minimum 4 years old) IECEE c/o Central Office of the IEC 3, rue de Varembe CH - 1211 Geneva 20, Switzerland +41 22 34 01 50 phone +41 22 33 38 43 fax UL, CSA, ETL, BSI, VDE, DEMKO, NEMKO are CB scheme members. Check with one of these to get the latest list of members. They call their members the National Certification Body. You can also contact one of the above and find the group that does the reviews for the CB scheme. They would be the best source of information. Make sure the CB Scheme done to the IEC 950 standard is accepted by the countries you intend to go, for ITE this is easier then TTE. That means make sure ALL the national deviations are included in the test report. According to Tom Smith other AUSTEL approved labs who are not members of the CB scheme may also accept the CB reports, and review and endorse them for use by AUSTEL. In fact UL Santa Clara CA, had done my CB scheme and sent it to their Melville NY office, which as Austel accredited (NAMAS) and they did a report that was accepted by Austel. Victor L. Boersma had a great deal to add: Neither AUSTEL, OFTEL in the UK, the FCC in the US or Industry Canada have any business accepting IECEE CB certificates. IECEE CB certificates pertain only to Electrical Safety. The agreement to accept such certificates is between participating PRIVATE SECTOR organizations. BSI, VDE, UL, ETL, CSA and such organizations are members of the scheme and are expected to accept certificates from other members, and allow the manufacturer to affix the mark of the national organization in the receiving country. For example, upon receipt of a certificate from UL, that the equipment has passed all applicable requirements with respect to Electrical Safety in Germany, VDE will allow an American manufacturer to affix the VDE mark to such equipment (provided the proper follow-up procedures are in place etc., etc.) The appropriate German Telecom authorities have nothing to do with how the American manufacturer obtained the right to affix the VDE mark, they only note that the equipment does carry that mark with the permission of VDE. In many countries, telecom equipment will not be approved to the telecom requirements, UNLESS, it has first been approved w.r.t. electrical safety and EMC. The IECEE CB scheme, so far, can only be used for the electrical safety part. Anybody else want to add to this list? Joe Dwyer Sr. Engineer International Approvals Inter-Tel. Tel:+1 602 961 9000 x1235 7300 West Boston Street Fax:+1 602 961 1370 Chandler, AZ 85226 U.S.A. Internet: dw...@inter-tel.com www.inter-tel.com Inter-Tel designs and sells PBX and Hybrid Telephone equipment worldwide.
