Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
I notice pirates don’t use good grammar (Are documents are protected ..) and they don’t take American Express! Seriously folks, however you feel about the standards, what is really at risk from places like this is your credit card numbers. The standards may not even be real, and the only thing that gets ripped could be your ID. A booty of corporate card numbers may be the real pirate’s treasure. If you use your personal Visa, Mastercard, or PayPal account, you might be calling the bank to say that your card needs to be shut down, or that you did not get the goods that you were promised. If you use a corporate card (assuming you use some other card than Amex – guessing American Express wouldn’t do business with these folks) you might have to go to your bosses to shut down your card, and get another one issued, and you might not have it processed in time to go to that symposium in Las Vegas you really wanted to go to! DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 3:02 PM To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: RE: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Check out the site’s only FAQ, concerning digital rights management: FAQ for document 1.Are documents are protected by Digital Rights Management (DRM)? Nope,all the file you'll be receiving will be free of DRM,you could copy,past,do anything you want. Aargh! DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world I'd counter with the price of one of the best EMC standards, mil std 461.. I like the price of that even better Copying .pdfs does not cost in excess of a few dollars. Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 12:08 PM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Reasonable is a subjective word. If I’m comparing standard prices from one source or the other the legitimate site is reasonable compared to other legitimate sites, but when I compare them to other printed matter including my daughter medical texts, math texts, or worse e-books the costs are huge. I can even get an actor to read me the book and still magnitudes of order difference. So I always suffer sticker shock when I hunting for standards. As I understand the price supports the standards activities – which is the reason I buy from legitimate sources. Gary From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because its occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my if its too good to be true warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it's occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.commailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my if it's too good to be true warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Reasonable is a subjective word. If I’m comparing standard prices from one source or the other the legitimate site is reasonable compared to other legitimate sites, but when I compare them to other printed matter including my daughter medical texts, math texts, or worse e-books the costs are huge. I can even get an actor to read me the book and still magnitudes of order difference. So I always suffer sticker shock when I hunting for standards. As I understand the price supports the standards activities – which is the reason I buy from legitimate sources. Gary From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.commailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.orghttp://e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.commailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.orghttp://e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
I have had conversations with a UL manager and a European IECEE member about standards cost; and both people indicated zero level of concern. To quote George Burns, No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. I understand that there are costs to bear by the WGs and TCs that do this stuff, but have not seen data that indicates any of the purchase cost is used to directly support standards-development people. For the U.S., some of the standards purchase cost can be mitigated on the corporate tax (RD expenditures or deduct them as a current expense) - but am not an accountant so am not certain of specific requirements. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
I agree that many standards costs are hugely inflated. I recently received a quote for the latest EN60950-1 in network copy, and almost fell off of my chair! The cost was 4637 BP! Luckily, this cost included my international discount of 50% ; ) Best Regards, Brian C. Brian Ceresney, CTech. Regulatory Team Lead, Delta-Q Technologies Corp. 3755 Willingdon Ave., Burnaby, BC Canada V5G 3H3 Tel: 604-566-8827 www.delta-q.comhttp://www.delta-q.com/ bceres...@delta-q.commailto:bceres...@delta-q.com Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 10:08 AM To: 'Derek Walton' Cc: 'don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com'; 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Reasonable is a subjective word. If I’m comparing standard prices from one source or the other the legitimate site is reasonable compared to other legitimate sites, but when I compare them to other printed matter including my daughter medical texts, math texts, or worse e-books the costs are huge. I can even get an actor to read me the book and still magnitudes of order difference. So I always suffer sticker shock when I hunting for standards. As I understand the price supports the standards activities – which is the reason I buy from legitimate sources. Gary From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.commailto:gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.orghttp://e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.commailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.orghttp://e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
As for UL at least, I would imagine that their not-for-profit status, which is largely justified by their activities in creating and maintaining standards, goes a long way in paying for those activities through the tax breaks. Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer AE Solar Energy +1.970.492.2065 Direct +1.970.407.5872 Fax +1.541.312.3832 Main scott.ald...@aei.com 1625 Sharp Point Drive Fort Collins, CO 80525 www.advanced-energy.com/solarenergy -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:13 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world I have had conversations with a UL manager and a European IECEE member about standards cost; and both people indicated zero level of concern. To quote George Burns, No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. I understand that there are costs to bear by the WGs and TCs that do this stuff, but have not seen data that indicates any of the purchase cost is used to directly support standards-development people. For the U.S., some of the standards purchase cost can be mitigated on the corporate tax (RD expenditures or deduct them as a current expense) - but am not an accountant so am not certain of specific requirements. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com This message, including any attachments, may contain information that is confidential and proprietary information of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. The dissemination, distribution, use or copying of this message or any of its attachments is strictly prohibited without the express written consent of Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
I'd counter with the price of one of the best EMC standards, mil std 461.. I like the price of that even better Copying .pdfs does not cost in excess of a few dollars. Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 12:08 PM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Reasonable is a subjective word. If I’m comparing standard prices from one source or the other the legitimate site is reasonable compared to other legitimate sites, but when I compare them to other printed matter including my daughter medical texts, math texts, or worse e-books the costs are huge. I can even get an actor to read me the book and still magnitudes of order difference. So I always suffer sticker shock when I hunting for standards. As I understand the price supports the standards activities – which is the reason I buy from legitimate sources. Gary From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
UL does not sell standards, it uses the entity incorporated as 'COMM 2000' to sell equipment and standards. I would like to see some of the $millions for annual stds buys go to sending more small-company reps to TCs and WGs. Derek Walton mentioned MilStds - the cost is front-loaded by U.S. tax dollars, and as the fed government has never been accused of having a profit motive, there is no force from the 'invisible hand' (Adam Smith) driving high standards costs. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Aldous, Scott Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 10:29 AM To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world As for UL at least, I would imagine that their not-for-profit status, which is largely justified by their activities in creating and maintaining standards, goes a long way in paying for those activities through the tax breaks. Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer AE Solar Energy +1.970.492.2065 Direct +1.970.407.5872 Fax +1.541.312.3832 Main scott.ald...@aei.com 1625 Sharp Point Drive Fort Collins, CO 80525 www.advanced-energy.com/solarenergy -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:13 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world I have had conversations with a UL manager and a European IECEE member about standards cost; and both people indicated zero level of concern. To quote George Burns, No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. I understand that there are costs to bear by the WGs and TCs that do this stuff, but have not seen data that indicates any of the purchase cost is used to directly support standards-development people. For the U.S., some of the standards purchase cost can be mitigated on the corporate tax (RD expenditures or deduct them as a current expense) - but am not an accountant so am not certain of specific requirements. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because its occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of 161 to BSI Members, 322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my if its too good to be true warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
The real cost of standards would be considerably higher I suspect if it were not for all the volunteers who contribute time and effort into developing the standards. The standards that really give me sticker shock are Telcordia who charge money for participation on the standard development committees and then charge for many of their more popular standards by quoting based upon the financial condition and size of the company buying the standard. But I digress - I am very wary of this particular site - we have all heard, no doubt, of how unusually cheap DVDs can be purchased from sources reputed to be in China who copy the original without regard to copyright. I also notice that http://e-standards.org goes to the real ANSI standards store with the prices normally expected, whereas the site in question removes the s and claims to be ANSI. It seems to me that they are trying to get traffic from people who mis-type the real ANSI standards store URL. Has anyone called ANSI to ask? Regards, Tom Smith, P.Eng Product Safety and Approvals Consultant TJS Technical Services Inc. Tel: +1 403-612-6664 Email: mailto:tsm...@tjstechnical.com tsm...@tjstechnical.com http://www.tjstechnical.com/ http://www.tjstechnical.com Follow us on Twitter: TJS_Technical -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:41 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world I'd counter with the price of one of the best EMC standards, mil std 461.. I like the price of that even better Copying .pdfs does not cost in excess of a few dollars. Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 12:08 PM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Reasonable is a subjective word. If I’m comparing standard prices from one source or the other the legitimate site is reasonable compared to other legitimate sites, but when I compare them to other printed matter including my daughter medical texts, math texts, or worse e-books the costs are huge. I can even get an actor to read me the book and still magnitudes of order difference. So I always suffer sticker shock when I hunting for standards. As I understand the price supports the standards activities – which is the reason I buy from legitimate sources. Gary From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Group, I contacted Tim Dovan, Sr. Mgr, Customer Service. His reply is below, as expected. Ken, Thank you for the link and additional information. It does not look like a website that is ANSI approved or powered. I have forwarded the information to our legal team to further investigate. Regards, Tim Dovan Sr Manager, Customer Service ANSI tdo...@ansi.org 212-642-8910 ___ Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC Woodland Park, CO Email Me! | Web Site | Blog Subscribe to Newsletter Connect with me on LinkedIn On May 8, 2012, at 10:38 AM, Derek Walton wrote: Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Check out the site’s only FAQ, concerning digital rights management: FAQ for document 1.Are documents are protected by Digital Rights Management (DRM)? Nope,all the file you'll be receiving will be free of DRM,you could copy,past,do anything you want. Aargh! DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:41 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world I'd counter with the price of one of the best EMC standards, mil std 461.. I like the price of that even better Copying .pdfs does not cost in excess of a few dollars. Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 12:08 PM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Reasonable is a subjective word. If I’m comparing standard prices from one source or the other the legitimate site is reasonable compared to other legitimate sites, but when I compare them to other printed matter including my daughter medical texts, math texts, or worse e-books the costs are huge. I can even get an actor to read me the book and still magnitudes of order difference. So I always suffer sticker shock when I hunting for standards. As I understand the price supports the standards activities – which is the reason I buy from legitimate sources. Gary From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Finally at a PC rather than my iPhone. Reasonable has always been grating in the standards world. I have supported writing documents since the mid 80's, all at my own expense. In most instances I end up buying them too. The standards bodies must be the epitome of ineficiency if they can't operate on slimmer margins when folks do all their work for them and reproduction is almost free. Sorry, but this has been a craw since I started in the whole industry. I'd love to see the equivalent of standards shareware get started. Anyone interested in helping? Cheers, Derek. -Original Message- From: McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com To: 'Derek Walton' lfresea...@aol.com Cc: 'don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com' don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG' EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Tue, May 8, 2012 1:49 pm Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Reasonable is a subjective word. If I’m comparing standard prices from one source or the other the legitimate site is reasonable compared to other legitimate sites, but when I compare them to other printed matter including my daughter medical texts, math texts, or worse e-books the costs are huge. I can even get an actor to read me the book and still magnitudes of order difference. So I always suffer sticker shock when I hunting for standards. As I understand the price supports the standards activities – which is the reason I buy from legitimate sources. Gary From: Derek Walton [mailto:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because it’s occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of £161 to BSI Members, £322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
UL gives their customers free access to all UL copyrighted standards through their Standards Certification Customer Library (SCCL). https://www.ulstandards.com/unsecured/Logon.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fDefault.aspx This only applies to UL copyrighted standards, though. Any IEC-based UL standards (such as UL 60950-1) are available for $50-$150, which is still a pretty good price. Patty Knudsen Product Safety Engineering TERADATA I THE BEST DECISION POSSIBLE WORK: 858-485-3748 EMAIL : patricia.knud...@teradata.com -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:19 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world UL does not sell standards, it uses the entity incorporated as 'COMM 2000' to sell equipment and standards. I would like to see some of the $millions for annual stds buys go to sending more small-company reps to TCs and WGs. Derek Walton mentioned MilStds - the cost is front-loaded by U.S. tax dollars, and as the fed government has never been accused of having a profit motive, there is no force from the 'invisible hand' (Adam Smith) driving high standards costs. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Aldous, Scott Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 10:29 AM To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world As for UL at least, I would imagine that their not-for-profit status, which is largely justified by their activities in creating and maintaining standards, goes a long way in paying for those activities through the tax breaks. Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer AE Solar Energy +1.970.492.2065 Direct +1.970.407.5872 Fax +1.541.312.3832 Main scott.ald...@aei.com 1625 Sharp Point Drive Fort Collins, CO 80525 www.advanced-energy.com/solarenergy -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:13 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world I have had conversations with a UL manager and a European IECEE member about standards cost; and both people indicated zero level of concern. To quote George Burns, No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. I understand that there are costs to bear by the WGs and TCs that do this stuff, but have not seen data that indicates any of the purchase cost is used to directly support standards-development people. For the U.S., some of the standards purchase cost can be mitigated on the corporate tax (RD expenditures or deduct them as a current expense) - but am not an accountant so am not certain of specific requirements. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because its occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of 161 to BSI Members, 322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my if its too good to be true warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Derek Walton mentioned MilStds - the cost is front-loaded by U.S. tax dollars, and as the fed government has never been accused of having a profit motive, there is no force from the 'invisible hand' (Adam Smith) driving high standards costs. So... are we saying that standards are made to make money for someone... or am I nieve thinking they were all about making sure products were evaluated properly for sale in a market place? -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell oconne...@tamuracorp.com To: EMC-PSTC EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Tue, May 8, 2012 1:21 pm Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world UL does not sell standards, it uses the entity incorporated as 'COMM 2000' to sell equipment and standards. I would like to see some of the $millions for annual stds buys go to sending more small-company reps to TCs and WGs. Derek Walton mentioned MilStds - the cost is front-loaded by U.S. tax dollars, and as the fed government has never been accused of having a profit motive, there is no force from the 'invisible hand' (Adam Smith) driving high standards costs. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Aldous, Scott Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 10:29 AM To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world As for UL at least, I would imagine that their not-for-profit status, which is largely justified by their activities in creating and maintaining standards, goes a long way in paying for those activities through the tax breaks. Scott Aldous Compliance Engineer AE Solar Energy +1.970.492.2065 Direct +1.970.407.5872 Fax +1.541.312.3832 Main scott.ald...@aei.com 1625 Sharp Point Drive Fort Collins, CO 80525 www.advanced-energy.com/solarenergy -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian Oconnell Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:13 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world I have had conversations with a UL manager and a European IECEE member about standards cost; and both people indicated zero level of concern. To quote George Burns, No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible. I understand that there are costs to bear by the WGs and TCs that do this stuff, but have not seen data that indicates any of the purchase cost is used to directly support standards-development people. For the U.S., some of the standards purchase cost can be mitigated on the corporate tax (RD expenditures or deduct them as a current expense) - but am not an accountant so am not certain of specific requirements. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:38 AM To: McInturff, Gary Cc: don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Always one to buck the trend, I think these are reasonable prices We are ripped off by standards bodies left right and centre MHO Derek Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2012, at 10:05 AM, McInturff, Gary gary.mcintu...@esterline.com wrote: Would appear the real pirates are at UL and BSI Gary From: Don Gies [mailto:don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:25 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Ahoy, me hearties! My view is that there are too many standards that are too cheap at this site, and if ANSI were really powering it, they would be doing so from their own site. This site might as well hoist high the Jolly Roger, because its occupied by pirates. Ex.: UL 60950-1 for $20 instead of $422? BS EN 60950-1 for $20 instead of 161 to BSI Members, 322 to non-members? DON GIES ALCATEL-LUCENT SENIOR PRODUCT COMPLIANCE ENGINEER BELL LABS - GLOBAL PRODUCT COMPLIANCE LABORATORY 600-700 Mountain Avenue Room 5B-104 Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636 USA Phone: +1 908 582 5978 Fax: +1 908 582 0582 don.g...@alcatel-lucent.com MEMBER, ALCATEL-LUCENT TECHNICAL ACADEMY From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my if its too good to be true warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
UL60950-1 costs approx $420 for the PDF. The free stuff and this pricing is available only to those of us that are UL clients - so we do pay for this... [While many (including myself) tend to target UL for frequent criticism, I must say that UL's web-based services are the best in the industry, and their seminars are professional and useful.] I believe that if major NRTLs, CSSs, NBs, NCBs, and CABs got together, they could force a system for international funding of standards, where the cost to download would be nominal, which would reduce the 'Priesthood' control and make requirements more transparent to the world. Will probably have to wait until the space aliens install a central imperial authority. Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Knudsen, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: RE: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world UL gives their customers free access to all UL copyrighted standards through their Standards Certification Customer Library (SCCL). https://www.ulstandards.com/unsecured/Logon.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fDefault.aspx This only applies to UL copyrighted standards, though. Any IEC-based UL standards (such as UL 60950-1) are available for $50-$150, which is still a pretty good price. Patty Knudsen Product Safety Engineering TERADATA I THE BEST DECISION POSSIBLE WORK: 858-485-3748 EMAIL : patricia.knud...@teradata.com -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:19 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world UL does not sell standards, it uses the entity incorporated as 'COMM 2000' to sell equipment and standards. I would like to see some of the $millions for annual stds buys go to sending more small-company reps to TCs and WGs. Derek Walton mentioned MilStds - the cost is front-loaded by U.S. tax dollars, and as the fed government has never been accused of having a profit motive, there is no force from the 'invisible hand' (Adam Smith) driving high standards costs. Brian - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
engineer - maybe we can write a better requirement that reflects real-world conditions, with test conditions having repeatable results. manager - maybe these engineers can come up with new requirements that will force everyone to buy new standards and more lab time. -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Derek Walton Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 2:00 PM To: oconne...@tamuracorp.com; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Derek Walton mentioned MilStds - the cost is front-loaded by U.S. tax dollars, and as the fed government has never been accused of having a profit motive, there is no force from the 'invisible hand' (Adam Smith) driving high standards costs. So... are we saying that standards are made to make money for someone... or am I nieve thinking they were all about making sure products were evaluated properly for sale in a market place? - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Not UL clients; UL clients with current/active safety certifications. New clients must pay retail. Regards, Peter L. Tarver -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 14:23 The free stuff and this pricing is available only to those of us that are UL clients - so we do pay for this... Brian -Original Message- From: Knudsen, Patricia Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:32 PM UL gives their customers free access to all UL copyrighted standards through their Standards Certification Customer Library (SCCL). Patty Knudsen From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 11:19 AM UL does not sell standards, it uses the entity incorporated as 'COMM 2000' to sell equipment and standards. I would like to see some of the $millions for annual stds buys go to sending more small-company reps to TCs and WGs. This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Have no experience with the people associated with this URL. Unknown copyright status and possible at-risk financial info if you purchase. DNS and trace indicates located in China. Bounces through several proxies. Flaky implementation of Zen Cart. Any other transaction experience with this site? As Lauren mentioned, sound the klaxons? Brian -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of Crane, Lauren Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my if it's too good to be true warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
Hi Lauren, I have no experience with that site. Exceptionally good buys there to be sure, but I would also the legality of it. Also intriguing at the bottom of the webpage is the claim that it is Powered by American National Standards Institute with a hyperlink to http://ansi.org. Still, approach with caution. Best regards, Ron From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my if it's too good to be true warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
I set up a gmail account and went through the steps to buy a couple standards. The site seems to have a functioning shopping cart software and the privacy report says they are using https://payment_fashionpay_com/sslpayment as their shopping cart software. A quick InterNIC check of fashionpay.com shows the site was created on May 8 of 2010 Domain Name: FASHIONPAY.COM Registrar: XIN NET TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION Whois Server: whois.paycenter.com.cn Referral URL: http://www.xinnet.com Name Server: F1G1NS1.DNSPOD.NET Name Server: F1G1NS2.DNSPOD.NET Status: ok Updated Date: 02-may-2012 Creation Date: 08-may-2010 Expiration Date: 08-may-2013 The Verisign and the Trustwave validation indicates “identify is verified” and this payment site is:SHENZHEN SUHUITONG NETWORK TECHNOLOGY CO.,LTD; Shenzhen, Guangdong, CN My Privacy Policy software cannot identify this site and at the point of submitting a VISA number, there is no padlock on the status bar even though this is an https site. The InterNIC report for e-standard.org points to New York with registrant, admin and tech contact all the same and they used Godaddy. ID:CR95380743 Name:e-standard support Street1:25 W 43rd Street, 6th Floor Street2:cheapest industry standards and codes Street3: City:New York State/Province:New York Postal Code:10036 Country:US Phone:+1.2126424979 Phone Ext.: FAX: FAX Ext.: Email:serv...@e-standard.org At this street address are the ANSI people. Their address is: Street1: 25 West 43rd Street, 4th floor Street2: New York, NY 10036 Tel: 1.212.642.4900 Fax: 1.212.398.0023 ANSI’s legitimate store is at http://webstore.ansi.org/ and it is called eStandards Store. It appears to use it's own shopping cart, installed on their own servers. I suggest this is either a software development group within ANSI has a web address to their development sandbox which somehow got released – OR – someone is attempting to duplicate ANSI and is not creative enough to come up with a unique street address that looks legitimate. One more point, the InterNIC listed phone number of e-standards appears to be an internal number under the main ANSI number; 212-642-4979 vs. 212-642-4900. Maybe someone at ANSI.ORG can weigh in on this discussion. My advice: *Approach with caution* Anyone care to call these phone numbers and see what happens?? -Doug Douglas E Powell http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Ron Pickard rpick...@equinoxpayments.comwrote: Hi Lauren, I have no experience with that site. ** ** Exceptionally good buys there to be sure, but I would also the legality of it. Also intriguing at the bottom of the webpage is the claim that it is “Powered by American National Standards Institute” with a hyperlink to http://ansi.org. Still, approach with caution. ** ** Best regards, ** ** Ron ** ** *From:* Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] *Sent:* Monday, May 07, 2012 2:29 PM *To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG *Subject:* [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world ** ** Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. ** ** Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. ** ** Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor ** ** - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT; emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules:
Re: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world
I gave ANSI a heads up on this site. We'll see what they say... Kenneth Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC Woodland Park, CO k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.com (Sent from my iPad) On May 7, 2012, at 6:32 PM, Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com wrote: I set up a gmail account and went through the steps to buy a couple standards. The site seems to have a functioning shopping cart software and the privacy report says they are using https://payment_fashionpay_com/sslpayment as their shopping cart software. A quick InterNIC check of fashionpay.com shows the site was created on May 8 of 2010 Domain Name: FASHIONPAY.COM Registrar: XIN NET TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION Whois Server: whois.paycenter.com.cn Referral URL: http://www.xinnet.com Name Server: F1G1NS1.DNSPOD.NET Name Server: F1G1NS2.DNSPOD.NET Status: ok Updated Date: 02-may-2012 Creation Date: 08-may-2010 Expiration Date: 08-may-2013 The Verisign and the Trustwave validation indicates “identify is verified” and this payment site is:SHENZHEN SUHUITONG NETWORK TECHNOLOGY CO.,LTD; Shenzhen, Guangdong, CN My Privacy Policy software cannot identify this site and at the point of submitting a VISA number, there is no padlock on the status bar even though this is an https site. The InterNIC report for e-standard.org points to New York with registrant, admin and tech contact all the same and they used Godaddy. ID:CR95380743 Name:e-standard support Street1:25 W 43rd Street, 6th Floor Street2:cheapest industry standards and codes Street3: City:New York State/Province:New York Postal Code:10036 Country:US Phone:+1.2126424979 Phone Ext.: FAX: FAX Ext.: Email:serv...@e-standard.org At this street address are the ANSI people. Their address is: Street1: 25 West 43rd Street, 4th floor Street2: New York, NY 10036 Tel: 1.212.642.4900 Fax: 1.212.398.0023 ANSI’s legitimate store is at http://webstore.ansi.org/ and it is called eStandards Store. It appears to use it's own shopping cart, installed on their own servers. I suggest this is either a software development group within ANSI has a web address to their development sandbox which somehow got released – OR – someone is attempting to duplicate ANSI and is not creative enough to come up with a unique street address that looks legitimate. One more point, the InterNIC listed phone number of e-standards appears to be an internal number under the main ANSI number; 212-642-4979 vs. 212-642-4900. Maybe someone at ANSI.ORG can weigh in on this discussion. My advice: Approach with caution Anyone care to call these phone numbers and see what happens?? -Doug Douglas E Powell http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Ron Pickard rpick...@equinoxpayments.com wrote: Hi Lauren, I have no experience with that site. Exceptionally good buys there to be sure, but I would also the legality of it. Also intriguing at the bottom of the webpage is the claim that it is “Powered by American National Standards Institute” with a hyperlink to http://ansi.org. Still, approach with caution. Best regards, Ron From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:29 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] e-standard.org The cheapest standards in the world Does anyone have experience with the subject standards vendor. Their prices are so low (NFPA 70-2011 for $25!?) it has activated all my “if it’s too good to be true” warning systems. Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online
