Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
No extra cost in testing, you ask UL to evaluate to UL60950 and CSA22.2 60950 at the same time. No extra label cost either as you can now use the single cUL mark. You still have the product in one volume of the file, so you pay the same tri monthly inspection fees. am...@westin.org wrote: So, if we choose UL for approvals in North America (US Canada) we have to mark the products with the UL and cUL labels ? I guess that there will be no addition testing (only use UL1950), but there might be some additional costs for using both labels right ? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:28:18 -0700 Graham Rae Dulmage grdulm...@sympatico.ca wrote: Ralph, some comments on your points. First I would suggest a lot of information on this question can be found at www.scc.ca. Secondly and very briefly as Art Michaels stated ULC stands for Underwriters Laboratories of Canada. ULC is a certification body accredited as is CSA and 14 others by the Standards Council of Canada. Again a great deal of information can be found at the SCC site. Hope this helps. Yours truly, G. Rae Dulmage Manager Standards Programs Standards Council of Canada Ralph Cameron wrote: CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail
RE: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Amund Not quite To enable you to apply the UL/cUL labels, UL will test your product to UL1950 for the USA and CSA22.2 No 60950 for Canada. The extra cost for testing to CSA22.2 No 60950 will depend on how much the Canadian deviations differ from the US Deviations of IEC60950. My experience is with IEC60065 and the US and Canadian deviations are considerably different. Regards Chris Colgan Compliance Engineer TAG McLaren Audio Ltd The Summit, Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE29 6ZU *Tel: +44 (0)1480 415 627 *Fax: +44 (0)1480 52159 * Mailto:chris.col...@tagmclaren.com * http://www.tagmclaren.com -Original Message- From: am...@westin.org [SMTP:am...@westin.org] Sent: 17 September 2001 09:27 To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: UL vs CSA (IT product) So, if we choose UL for approvals in North America (US Canada) we have to mark the products with the UL and cUL labels ? I guess that there will be no addition testing (only use UL1950), but there might be some additional costs for using both labels right ? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:28:18 -0700 Graham Rae Dulmage grdulm...@sympatico.ca wrote: Ralph, some comments on your points. First I would suggest a lot of information on this question can be found at www.scc.ca. Secondly and very briefly as Art Michaels stated ULC stands for Underwriters Laboratories of Canada. ULC is a certification body accredited as is CSA and 14 others by the Standards Council of Canada. Again a great deal of information can be found at the SCC site. Hope this helps. Yours truly, G. Rae Dulmage Manager Standards Programs Standards Council of Canada Ralph Cameron wrote: CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
So, if we choose UL for approvals in North America (US Canada) we have to mark the products with the UL and cUL labels ? I guess that there will be no addition testing (only use UL1950), but there might be some additional costs for using both labels right ? Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 23:28:18 -0700 Graham Rae Dulmage grdulm...@sympatico.ca wrote: Ralph, some comments on your points. First I would suggest a lot of information on this question can be found at www.scc.ca. Secondly and very briefly as Art Michaels stated ULC stands for Underwriters Laboratories of Canada. ULC is a certification body accredited as is CSA and 14 others by the Standards Council of Canada. Again a great deal of information can be found at the SCC site. Hope this helps. Yours truly, G. Rae Dulmage Manager Standards Programs Standards Council of Canada Ralph Cameron wrote: CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Regarding the issue how well the CSA NRTL mark is acceptable in the U.S. and how well the cUL mark is acceptable in Canada;-- this is where it really pays to know and understand your customer. CSA for many many years now has a very heavy advertising campaign in Canada that only products that are CSA Certified are safe to use by the consumer. I seriously doubt that today they also include the cUL mark in the same ad! Thus, the conscientious Canadian consumer would probably not recognize the cUL Listing mark. On the other hand, in my previous job we were shipping equipment to Bell Canada and other big enterprise customers with the cUL mark with absolutely no problem. I have also seen UL acceptance of the CSA mark with no problem. My gut feel is that UL would accept the CSA mark before they would accept another NRTL mark, but I have no proof of this statement. As far as the U.S. consumer is concerned, my gut feel (and also with no proof) is that 97% of them could care less what markings are on the equipment they buy. Several of my peers at work ever so often drop buy and announce to me proudly that they purchased something that had the UL/CSA/CE or whatever appropriate markings on the product. The reason that they are proud is because the recognized something I was telling them about previously. And how often does this happen?? Know and find out what your costumer wants and expects. taniagr...@msn.com - Original Message - From: geor...@lexmark.com Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 11:41 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, I believe some additional clarification is warranted. UL and CSA are private agencies and do not determine what is acceptable to market goods (ITE) in their respective countries. This is determined by government bodies. The U.S. OSHA has approved multiple Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories to (NRTLs) to perform testing to the UL standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See: http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/index.html The Standards Council of Canada has approved multiple Certification Bodies to perform testing to the CSA standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See http://www.scc.ca/certific/colist_e.html Neither UL nor CSA is obliged to recognize or accept testing performed by the other agency, although their respective governments do so. Canada requires either CSA, c-UL, or marks of the other listed certification bodies. U.S. requires UL, CSA/NRTL, or marks of the other listed NRTLs. So, you can use either agency to get a mark acceptable in both countries. However, here is the down side of each: CSA/NRTL--Not as well known in the U.S. by large corporate customers. Requires some selling to convince that it is equal to UL. c-UL--OK for both country consumer/business markets, but Canadian government tends to give precidence to CSA marked ITE when bidding for its own use. George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com on 09/10/2001 09:33:00 AM Please respond to Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com To: Horst Haug innova.ps%t-online...@interlock.lexmark.com, Peter Merguerian pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com, amund%westin@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: UL vs CSA (IT product) CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area,to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
George: I don't think what I said differs substantially from what you said other than I intended to say that where electrical safety of consumer products is concerned only CSA and c-UL certification is acceptable in Canada. If you use a consumer product in Canada not so approved to CSA or c-UL, you'll have a problem with insurance. . In fact Ontario Hydro(now Hydro One) have authority to prevent you from using the product. Its amazing how many products enter the country without any certification because this is not examined at entry. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: geor...@lexmark.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 11:21 AM Subject: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, I believe some additional clarification is warranted. UL and CSA are private agencies and do not determine what is acceptable to market goods (ITE) in their respective countries. This is determined by government bodies. The U.S. OSHA has approved multiple Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories to (NRTLs) to perform testing to the UL standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See: http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/index.html The Standards Council of Canada has approved multiple Certification Bodies to perform testing to the CSA standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See http://www.scc.ca/certific/colist_e.html Neither UL nor CSA is obliged to recognize or accept testing performed by the other agency, although their respective governments do so. Canada requires either CSA, c-UL, or marks of the other listed certification bodies. U.S. requires UL, CSA/NRTL, or marks of the other listed NRTLs. So, you can use either agency to get a mark acceptable in both countries. However, here is the down side of each: CSA/NRTL--Not as well known in the U.S. by large corporate customers. Requires some selling to convince that it is equal to UL. c-UL--OK for both country consumer/business markets, but Canadian government tends to give precidence to CSA marked ITE when bidding for its own use. George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com on 09/10/2001 09:33:00 AM Please respond to Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com To: Horst Haug innova.ps%t-online...@interlock.lexmark.com, Peter Merguerian pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com, amund%westin@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: UL vs CSA (IT product) CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area,to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? Yes. I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? UL by itself is not accepted in Canada. CSA by itself is not accepted in the US. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? I've only run into that problem with NRTLs other than UL and CSA for domestic (US) approvals and that was primarily with telco companies. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Yes. If you go to CSA, then tell them you have to have approvals for both Canada and the US. If you go to UL, then tell them you have to have approvals for both Canada and the US. It's up to you, 6 of one or a six-pack of another ... - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Hi Amund: UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? Yes -- sort of. Safety certification of IT equipment is mandatory in both Canada and the USA. However, both countries accept safety certification from a number of certification houses, including but not limited to CSA and UL. So, certification is required in both Canada and the USA, but not necessarily by CSA and UL. Both UL and CSA can certify IT products for both the USA and Canada. Canada USA -- --- UL cUL markUL mark CSA CSA markCSA-NRTL mark (The marks are combination marks, i.e., they are base logo marks with additions that indicate the certification applies to both countries.) 1.Do they have the same status? UL and CSA (and their certification marks) have the same status in both Canada and the USA. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Not many customers pay attention to who issues the certification mark. However, among those that have an interest, in general, Canadian folks prefer CSA, and USA folks prefer UL. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Not necessarily. Your product must have safety certification in both Canada and the USA. 1) Either CSA or UL can issue one certification that is acceptable in both countries. Or, 2) CSA and UL can issue individual certifications for their respective countries, i.e., you can submit to CSA for Canadian certification and to UL for USA certification. Most of us in the USA use one certification house for both countries. Some of us use CSA, some of us use UL, and some of us use other certification houses. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
UL vs CSA (IT product)
Amund, I believe some additional clarification is warranted. UL and CSA are private agencies and do not determine what is acceptable to market goods (ITE) in their respective countries. This is determined by government bodies. The U.S. OSHA has approved multiple Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories to (NRTLs) to perform testing to the UL standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See: http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/index.html The Standards Council of Canada has approved multiple Certification Bodies to perform testing to the CSA standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See http://www.scc.ca/certific/colist_e.html Neither UL nor CSA is obliged to recognize or accept testing performed by the other agency, although their respective governments do so. Canada requires either CSA, c-UL, or marks of the other listed certification bodies. U.S. requires UL, CSA/NRTL, or marks of the other listed NRTLs. So, you can use either agency to get a mark acceptable in both countries. However, here is the down side of each: CSA/NRTL--Not as well known in the U.S. by large corporate customers. Requires some selling to convince that it is equal to UL. c-UL--OK for both country consumer/business markets, but Canadian government tends to give precidence to CSA marked ITE when bidding for its own use. George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com on 09/10/2001 09:33:00 AM Please respond to Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com To: Horst Haug innova.ps%t-online...@interlock.lexmark.com, Peter Merguerian pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com, amund%westin@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: UL vs CSA (IT product) CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area,to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Hello all, A semantics clarification is offered based on the following response; On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Ralph Cameron wrote: CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. ULC is the acronym for Underwriters Laboratories of Canada ( a UL affiliate). They, no doubt, are accredited as Testing and Certifying Organizations by the Standards Council of Canada. (And, as an aside, I believe they may also be Recognized by OSHA, to test and certify to US requirements) UL is normally not acceptable by itself in Canada It's not clear whether the above sentence refers to UL (the company) or UL (the mark). In the hopes of clarifying the statement, consider the following; C-UL is the proper acronym for products tested and certified by UL (in the US, or Canada, or elsewhere - I expect) to Canadian Standards. UL (the US company) is also accredited by the Standards Council of Canada as Testing and Certification Organizations and their C-UL (and C-UR for components) marks are accepted in Canada. Regards, Art Michael P.S. The Safety Link noted the entry of its 350,000th visitor (since mid-1995) last Friday. You are invited to visit and use this resource. Int'l Product Safety News A.E. Michael, Editor 166 Congdon St. East P.O. Box 1561 Middletown CT 06457 U.S.A. Phone : (860) 344-1651 Fax: (860) 346-9066 Email : i...@safetylink.com Website: http://www.safetylink.com ISSN : 1040-7529 - Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael
AW: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
