Re: [Emc-users] how small
This is a today CNC for watch industry prototyping (without the control rack now!): http://www.bctechnologies.ch/images/stories/pdf/BCT-80-CNC.pdf Claude Le 16.11.2011 16:31, andy pugh a écrit : On 16 November 2011 14:23,kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote: What if I wanted to make say watch parts Are you very wealthy? http://www.lathes.co.uk/aciera/page5.html -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] problem with genserkins
2011/11/16 Francesca Sca fancy_...@yahoo.it: Andrew wrote: If you want to completely control the fingers angle, you can assign another axis for them. It might be W if you already have XYZABC. I guess, you should add the axis to your HAL file and genserkins. It requires no kinematic transformation, just add the direct connection. My axis C is associated to the opening and closing of fingers. So I should using only 5 axes for the genserkins module and exclude the last one C to the kinematic trasformation? Could be correct? It is possible using genserkins for only 5 axes? What I should change? Genserkins will treat C as a rotary axis. It is binded into all those matrix conversions, jacobian functions and other stuff that I do not fully understand. IMHO, if You want to control the gripper, it should be anything but XYZABC. I agree with Andrew that adding U, V or W might be the way to go. On the other hand, adding that to genserkins does not seem very easy (at least for me). You could do that in HAL with limit3 component directly feeding the position to stepgen. The question is - how to tell limit3, what is requested end position, where it should go. It depends on how You intend to control the gripper - just a simple open/close operation, or do You want to control, how much it opens up. Viesturs -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] problem with genserkins
Viesturs wrote: Genserkins will treat C as a rotary axis. It is binded into all those matrix conversions, jacobian functions and other stuff that I do not fully understand. IMHO, if You want to control the gripper, it should be anything but XYZABC. I agree with Andrew that adding U, V or W might be the way to go. On the other hand, adding that to genserkins does not seem very easy (at least for me). I have read a post of Alex Joni (the developer of genserkins) where he said that this module works at least 6 axis. If the machine has fewer, I need to set the others as dummy. So the solution could be using genserkins for 5 axis and 1 dummy and then add another axis for to realize the opening and the closing of the fingers. Could be correct? Can I realize this? Any suggestion or help? -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] problem with genserkins
2011/11/17 Francesca Sca fancy_...@yahoo.it: Viesturs wrote: Genserkins will treat C as a rotary axis. It is binded into all those matrix conversions, jacobian functions and other stuff that I do not fully understand. IMHO, if You want to control the gripper, it should be anything but XYZABC. I agree with Andrew that adding U, V or W might be the way to go. On the other hand, adding that to genserkins does not seem very easy (at least for me). I have read a post of Alex Joni (the developer of genserkins) where he said that this module works at least 6 axis. If the machine has fewer, I need to set the others as dummy. So the solution could be using genserkins for 5 axis and 1 dummy and then add another axis for to realize the opening and the closing of the fingers. Could be correct? Can I realize this? Any suggestion or help? Yes, that is correct. Genserkins does calcs for 6 joints. If the actual robot has fewer, then dummy joints need to be defined to make up 6 joints for genserkins. If You need some extra joint, then it has to be added separately. What I understand from genserkins, it is coded for 6 joints, so the 7th joint has to be added in genserkins code and that is why I feel it not to be easy task. You did not answer, how You want to operate the gripper (just open/close or control, how much and how fast does it grab), so it is hard to tell, if that can be done in HAL. Sorry, I cannot help with genserkins, because I myself need help with the genserkins :)) Viesturs -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] problem with genserkins
Viesturs wrote: Yes, that is correct. Genserkins does calcs for 6 joints. If the actual robot has fewer, then dummy joints need to be defined to make up 6 joints for genserkins. How I can make an axis dummy? for example the C one? If You need some extra joint, then it has to be added separately. What I understand from genserkins, it is coded for 6 joints, so the 7th joint has to be added in genserkins code and that is why I feel it not to be easy task. I don't want that the added axis take a part of the kinematics. I would that it works separatly. It possible make this? You did not answer, how You want to operate the gripper (just open/close or control, how much and how fast does it grab), so it is hard to tell, if that can be done in HAL. Sorry, I cannot help with genserkins, because I myself need help with the genserkins :)) Both the ways are ok for me. I think that I could control the axis that moves the fingers separatly from kinematic genserkins, I would have problems anymore. Genserkins is a nice problem for many people :p -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Concrete Lathe
On 11/16/2011 01:28 PM, Dave wrote: Looks like most of the Datron mills actually have solid granite bases - most of them are not a composite polymer-granite dust mix. I have bought some epoxy resin to repair boat hulls and the best price I can find for non-blushing epoxy resin is about $75 per gallon including the hardener with shipping. So a gravel/epoxy composite or granite dust/expoxy composite frame is going to be a lot more expensive than basic concrete which is going for about $150 per cubic yard around here delivered in a mix truck. Making an epoxy/gravel composite would also take some experimenting as epoxy tends to self heat as it is sets and it can get very hot. I have no idea how they control curing in thicker structures with epoxy. I have had a cup of mixed epoxy get so hot, that I was not able to hold onto to it. (too much activator in the mix). The hotter it gets during a cure, the faster it sets so it can become a tail chasing exercise on thicker parts. That is why most boat hulls are laid up in thin layers - usually less than 1/8th inch per layer. Andy I think we got these old imperial measurements from you guys! Apparently we are rather resistant to change.But I'm still waiting for the UK to adopt the Euro...any day now .. right??;-) Dave Dave, There are application epoxies that are designed to cure in bulk, and do not exhibit the high heat generation that a typical laminating epoxy does when mixed up and kept in a container in large amounts. The epoxy I used to use to make molds and plugs was a greenish color and had metal dust and a few other additives in it to make the final product strong. Had a very slow cure rate, something like 48 hours for the initial cure, and then you had to finish with a heat cure to get to the final hardness. Prior to the heat cure, the epoxy never got much warmer than a human's body heat. Laminating epoxies, like the ones you mentioned above, have much shorter cure times, because they use the exothermic heat generated by the chemical reaction to hasten the cure, moreso than the much, much slower curing molding epoxy like I use. Of course, there are laminating epoxies that don't quite fit that mold (no pun intended), like the Epon epoxy I use to glue up the bamboo rods that I make. That epoxy has a 7 day cure at 65 degrees F, though you can, and I do, heat cure it. Mark -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
Jon, I think Richards original message was a little ironical. I think was he meant was that this EMC2 list is moving towards commercial users more and more, who are making money by using a no cost control program system. Consequently, interests of hobbyists (like I am, too) are going to the background. Nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table, you can buy them for a few dollars. The machine Richard is actually looking for is the UWG, a combined, extremely versatile table top lathe-mill-grinding machine with extraordinary precision (1/100 mm easily) made by the Hommel factory here in Germany from WW II times until about 1970. Since then, those machines have been dealt in ebay and other shops for tremendous prices, even spare parts are paid for by their weight in gold (almost). Call www.ebay.de and look for Hommel UWG, right now there a sale is going on. Google for Hommel UWG and you will get a lot of hits, also from the UK. Besides, UWG is an acronym for Universelles Werkstätten Gerät (universal workshop device). I happend to buy one some years ago, saving it from the junk yard. The people who owned it didn't know what a treasure they were to throw away. I added stepper motors and end switches to all axis and run the machine with home made software. As one of the first items I made (PC controlled) some 60 gear wheels for the machine itself from hydraulic piston steel slabs. The reason why I am participating in this list is my wish to run the machine with EMC2, but so far I didn't have the time (and the guts) to start this as a primary project. Peter Jon Elson schrieb: kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote: I enjoy reading about y'all and your terrawatt spindle motors with bits that require a mobile crane to load but what about small What if I wanted to make say watch parts And I will qualify that by saying a watch for us normal size folks And I am sure y'all with deep pockets can come up with links to all sorts of commercial equipment but what about us hobbiest I realize small is not necessarily the best description because accuracy is the main requirement Anyone ever built such a creature It shouldn't be very hard. Making (or retrofitting) a small machine solves a couple accuracy/resolution problems just by reducing mass, thermal expansion, etc. Tiny ballscrews are seen on eBay all the time. If you are talking about a lathe, you might look at a jewelers/watchmakers lathe. There are several small milling machines that might make good candidates. On the other hand, I am sure I could build watch parts on my Bridgeport mill with no problem. Jon -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] problem with genserkins
2011/11/17 Francesca Sca fancy_...@yahoo.it: Viesturs wrote: Yes, that is correct. Genserkins does calcs for 6 joints. If the actual robot has fewer, then dummy joints need to be defined to make up 6 joints for genserkins. How I can make an axis dummy? for example the C one? I think - define DH parameters so that it matches the actual orientation of Your tool and do not attach any pwmgen/stepgen to it. You did not answer, how You want to operate the gripper (just open/close or control, how much and how fast does it grab), so it is hard to tell, if that can be done in HAL. Sorry, I cannot help with genserkins, because I myself need help with the genserkins :)) Both the ways are ok for me. I think that I could control the axis that moves the fingers separatly from kinematic genserkins, I would have problems anymore. Then there is very nice way to solve it: Use mux2 and limit3 components: Mux2.sel pin should be the open/close command (can be driven from g-code, if linked to spindle or coolant on/off HAL pins), mux2.in0 and mux2.in1 should be stepgen positions, when gripper is closed and open. Link mux2.out to limit3 input, set acceleration and velocity limits in limit3 and link limit3 output to stepgen pos-cmd input. Genserkins is a nice problem for many people :p No, I think You are wrong. Genserkins is extremely powerful, where it is applicable. I would say that genserkins is the reason, why EMC can beat majority of commercial robotic arm controllers in terms of ability to accept normal g-code - AFAIK all the robots need special CAM postprocessors, which convert Cartesian commands into motori position commands, so the code is not understandable by the operator. The problem with genserkins is customizing it, because it is very complex uses very advanced math functions, like jacobian. I think that I did everything needed for genserkins to work with linear joints, but I need some help with testing it, because it does not behave really the way I would expect it, but I am having difficulties understanding, how to debug it. Viesturs -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] problem with genserkins
Viesturs wrote: Then there is very nice way to solve it: Use mux2 and limit3 components: Mux2.sel pin should be the open/close command (can be driven from g-code, if linked to spindle or coolant on/off HAL pins), mux2.in0 and mux2.in1 should be stepgen positions, when gripper is closed and open. Link mux2.out to limit3 input, set acceleration and velocity limits in limit3 and link limit3 output to stepgen pos-cmd input. You can explain me better this? Which are the right lines that I must add to my .hal file? No, I think You are wrong. Genserkins is extremely powerful, where it is applicable. The problem with genserkins is customizing it, because it is very complex uses very advanced math functions, like jacobian. I think the same things. Genserkins is very powerful but also very complex for people like me that aren't so expert! -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, Claude Froidevaux wrote: This is a today CNC for watch industry prototyping (without the control rack now!): http://www.bctechnologies.ch/images/stories/pdf/BCT-80-CNC.pdf Claude Just what I was lookin for I will order 2 just to have a spare :) That is aserious lookin machine Richard -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, Peter Blodow wrote: Jon, I think Richards original message was a little ironical. I think was he meant was that this EMC2 list is moving towards commercial users more and more, who are making money by using a no cost control program system. Consequently, interests of hobbyists (like I am, too) are going to the background. Nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table, you can buy them for a few dollars. The machine Richard is actually looking for is the UWG, a combined, extremely versatile table top lathe-mill-grinding machine with extraordinary precision (1/100 mm easily) made by the Hommel factory here in Germany from WW II times until about 1970. Since then, those machines have been dealt in ebay and other shops for tremendous prices, even spare parts are paid for by their weight in gold (almost). Call www.ebay.de and look for Hommel UWG, right now there a sale is going on. Google for Hommel UWG and you will get a lot of hits, also from the UK. Besides, UWG is an acronym for Universelles Werkstätten Gerät (universal workshop device). I happened to buy one some years ago, saving it from the junk yard. The people who owned it didn't know what a treasure they were to throw away. I added stepper motors and end switches to all axis and run the machine with home made software. As one of the first items I made (PC controlled) some 60 gear wheels for the machine itself from hydraulic piston steel slabs. The reason why I am participating in this list is my wish to run the machine with EMC2, but so far I didn't have the time (and the guts) to start this as a primary project. Peter I really was being serious I think all big little boys enjoy stories of big machines How about you guys putting up some videos I sent the first 18 years of my working career as an industrial mechanic This gave me ample opportunities to visit the local machine shop I once watched them resurfacing a 8 foot diameter pump impeller on a vertical lathe They said it was from one of the pumps in New Orleans Very cool My space is limited as is my budget Last year I bought a V90 and enjoyed every minute since but now I am thinking smaller Richard-- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
Here are some links to UWG presentations: http://www.enhydralutris.de/Hommel/index.html#1 http://www.uwg-hommel.de/ http://www.uwg-hommel.de/ http://www.lathes.co.uk/hommel/ http://www.s1p.de/05_w/uwg/fr_uwg_w.html Peter Peter Blodow schrieb: Jon, I think Richards original message was a little ironical. I think was he meant was that this EMC2 list is moving towards commercial users more and more, who are making money by using a no cost control program system. Consequently, interests of hobbyists (like I am, too) are going to the background. Nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table, you can buy them for a few dollars. The machine Richard is actually looking for is the UWG, a combined, extremely versatile table top lathe-mill-grinding machine with extraordinary precision (1/100 mm easily) made by the Hommel factory here in Germany from WW II times until about 1970. Since then, those machines have been dealt in ebay and other shops for tremendous prices, even spare parts are paid for by their weight in gold (almost). Call www.ebay.de and look for Hommel UWG, right now there a sale is going on. Google for Hommel UWG and you will get a lot of hits, also from the UK. Besides, UWG is an acronym for Universelles Werkstätten Gerät (universal workshop device). I happend to buy one some years ago, saving it from the junk yard. The people who owned it didn't know what a treasure they were to throw away. I added stepper motors and end switches to all axis and run the machine with home made software. As one of the first items I made (PC controlled) some 60 gear wheels for the machine itself from hydraulic piston steel slabs. The reason why I am participating in this list is my wish to run the machine with EMC2, but so far I didn't have the time (and the guts) to start this as a primary project. Peter Jon Elson schrieb: kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote: I enjoy reading about y'all and your terrawatt spindle motors with bits that require a mobile crane to load but what about small What if I wanted to make say watch parts And I will qualify that by saying a watch for us normal size folks And I am sure y'all with deep pockets can come up with links to all sorts of commercial equipment but what about us hobbiest I realize small is not necessarily the best description because accuracy is the main requirement Anyone ever built such a creature It shouldn't be very hard. Making (or retrofitting) a small machine solves a couple accuracy/resolution problems just by reducing mass, thermal expansion, etc. Tiny ballscrews are seen on eBay all the time. If you are talking about a lathe, you might look at a jewelers/watchmakers lathe. There are several small milling machines that might make good candidates. On the other hand, I am sure I could build watch parts on my Bridgeport mill with no problem. Jon -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On 17 November 2011 10:22, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: Nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table, you can buy them for a few dollars. This might be partly true, but the desire to make a clock is what got me involved in this. OK, so it has been 2 years and I am still making the machine tools to make the clock... The machine Richard is actually looking for is the UWG, a combined, extremely versatile table top lathe-mill-grinding machine with extraordinary precision More cost-effective might be one of the Denfords: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cnc-Denford-Novamill-/160682741953 Or maybe a Sherline or MaxNC. I recently found that Zapp are listing 6mm ballscrews: http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=1_59_66products_id=607 -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Concrete Lathe
On 16 November 2011 18:28, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote: Making an epoxy/gravel composite would also take some experimenting as epoxy tends to self heat as it is sets and it can get very hot. I have no idea how they control curing in thicker structures with epoxy. Valen has an interesting thread on cnczone about a new head for his mill: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, andy pugh wrote: On 17 November 2011 10:22, Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de wrote: Nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table, you can buy them for a few dollars. This might be partly true, but the desire to make a clock is what got me involved in this. OK, so it has been 2 years and I am still making the machine tools to make the clock... You said a mouth full It is not as much about the end product as the doing I have enjoyed writing programs to create pieces as much as making them The machine Richard is actually looking for is the UWG, a combined, extremely versatile table top lathe-mill-grinding machine with extraordinary precision More cost-effective might be one of the Denfords: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cnc-Denford-Novamill-/160682741953 Or maybe a Sherline or MaxNC. I recently found that Zapp are listing 6mm ballscrews: http://www.zappautomation.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=1_59_66products_id=607 -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
I make small items (mainly clock parts/gears) on my cnc one of the smallest was a verge for a pocket watch for a customer in Naples. http://gears.archivist.info/P1010320_hires.JPG my X Y 90x120mm travels are small but I find they are too small, and will rebuild the machine to a larger incarnation when I get time as I found I needed more travel for tooling, jigs etc Dave Caroline -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Not your usual robot arm
http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/steam_armatron/ -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Not your usual robot arm
reminds me of the wild wild west movie with will Smith. :) Le 17/11/2011 13:49, andy pugh a écrit : http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/steam_armatron/ -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Has anyone done some jobs about porting EMC2 to ARM9 platforms ?
Hello everyone, I try to port EMC2 to Mini2440, a platform based on S3C2440 ARM9 processor. I want to ask if anyone have ported EMC2 to platforms based on arm processors. Here is a basic description of Mini2440 board: CPU Samsung S3C2440(ARM920T core with MMC, Up to 532MHz) SDRAM64MByte Flash 128M Nand Flash Software Linux 2.9.32.2, ARM-Linux GCC 4.4.3 Thanks:） -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Possible bug in emc when using trivkins for plasma-sim configuration
On 17 November 2011 01:30, Sasa Vilic sasavi...@gmail.com wrote: When I start EMC, turn off estop and try to turn on power my Z axis begins to move up, until it reaches 10.xxx and then I get error: joint 2 on limit switch error. Is this in a sim config, or an actual machine? -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] problem with genserkins
On 17 November 2011 09:59, Francesca Sca fancy_...@yahoo.it wrote: Yes, that is correct. Genserkins does calcs for 6 joints. If the actual robot has fewer, then dummy joints need to be defined to make up 6 joints for genserkins. How I can make an axis dummy? for example the C one? This is one of those situations where it is important to be very clear about the distinction between Joints and Axes. genserkins assumes 6 joints (ie 6 motors) and also 6 axes (XYZABC). Whilst you could change the INI file to accept U, V or W axis words in the G-code (The COORDINATES= line) genserkins does not pass through this value to an axis.N.motor-pos-cmd pin. This might be seen as something of an oversight, or there might be an excellent reason... I think that the easiest solution might be to use M67 to send position commands out of the G-code to a HAL pin, and link that direct to a stepgen in HAL. I think that, in most cases, you can use the stepgen accell and velocity limits to control the motion. Homing might have to be a rather crude stall-the-motor-on-the-end-stops. Alternatively, it is probably possible to modify genserkins to pass-through UV and W in the same way as trivkins does. (line 357 onwards for forward kins, I can't immediately see where to do it for inverse kins) -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On Thursday, November 17, 2011 08:42:09 AM Peter Blodow did opine: Jon, I think Richards original message was a little ironical. I think was he meant was that this EMC2 list is moving towards commercial users more and more, who are making money by using a no cost control program system. Consequently, interests of hobbyists (like I am, too) are going to the background. Nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table, you can buy them for a few dollars. The machine Richard is actually looking for is the UWG, a combined, extremely versatile table top lathe-mill-grinding machine with extraordinary precision (1/100 mm easily) made by the Hommel factory here in Germany from WW II times until about 1970. Since then, those machines have been dealt in ebay and other shops for tremendous prices, even spare parts are paid for by their weight in gold (almost). Call www.ebay.de and look for Hommel UWG, right now there a sale is going on. Google for Hommel UWG and you will get a lot of hits, also from the UK. Besides, UWG is an acronym for Universelles Werkstنtten Gerنt (universal workshop device). I happend to buy one some years ago, saving it from the junk yard. The people who owned it didn't know what a treasure they were to throw away. I added stepper motors and end switches to all axis and run the machine with home made software. As one of the first items I made (PC controlled) some 60 gear wheels for the machine itself from hydraulic piston steel slabs. The reason why I am participating in this list is my wish to run the machine with EMC2, but so far I didn't have the time (and the guts) to start this as a primary project. Peter Now I'll have to clean the drool from my keyboard, Peter. But this is one of those if you have to ask, you can't afford it things. Google found one, a 1973 model, only 7k euro plus ship from .de land. Touring the google output, one site even had a picture of a unimate, the little one with about a 2.5 chuck, which brought back some fond memories as I had borrowed one of those for a couple years back in the '60's. I used it to make a primer pocket swaging tool for mil brass I still own and use occasionally, fits in the ram of a herters U frame reloading press that I still keep just to use it. Made it from a 1/4 grade 12 bolt, ground to contour, no discernible wear in thousands of cases treated. I also made a few other tools associated with reloading that I still use occasionally. For a tiny lathe, quite useful and I have been looking for one to buy for quite a while. But is there anything the Hommel can't do? One picture even showed it setup with what must have been an extra cost scroll saw frame and table. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene You, sir, are nothing but a pathetically lame salesdroid! I fart in your general direction! -- Randseed on #Linux -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011, Dave Caroline wrote: I make small items (mainly clock parts/gears) on my cnc one of the smallest was a verge for a pocket watch for a customer in Naples. http://gears.archivist.info/P1010320_hires.JPG my X Y 90x120mm travels are small but I find they are too small, and will rebuild the machine to a larger incarnation when I get time as I found I needed more travel for tooling, jigs etc Dave Caroline That IS impressive work Richard -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
Hello Gene, for this reason I am using a plastic cover over the keyboard with pockets for the keys (left over from delivery of the keyboard) :-)) Yes, you are right, the rarer, the more expensive. But I bought my machine from someone who didn' have a faint idea and I got it together with the work bench and a drawer type tool cabinet, all filled with parts, for 50 Euros. Admittedly, you've got to find such a guy, but as I didn't even intended to buy such a miraculous machine, I learned: Don't try, and you'll find. As we say, it dropped right into my lap. No, there is no mechanical work that would be impossible for the UWG. On the Internet, there is a picture of a guy turning out the brake drum of a large car or truck wheel without even removing the tire. You can do rigid tapping on a tapered shaft, engrave scale lines on conic wheels, turn cones, make 45 degree (or any other angle) gears, asymmetrical worm wheels, hypoid gears and such, both turned and ground. The only thing that is needed besides a lot of ingenuity is time for the changes on the machine and for making all those very little chips, because the motor only has 180 watts :-)) Right, there are attachments for circular sawing, a precision turntable (which I motorized with a stepper), two XY tables in different sizes with a vise, three chucks, a turning plate, a lot of change gear wheels for threading, several cardan shafts, a three gear shift box, lots of pulleys, and a grinding attachment for 2 rpm (which is lacking on my machine). You can also disengage the nuts and move the ways by a hand lever for grinding. All movements are done with 1 mm pitch spindles, which means an accuracy of 1/400 mm with an ordinary stepper. All nuts are split to remove any play. And it is very sturdy, as the wei'ght of 300 kg for a table top machine implies. All important parts are cast iron, precision ground. The column is a solid 100 mm bar. You can attach dials on every axis to check precision. But, for a complete change from, say, turning to rigid tapping I need about one and a half hour. On the other hand, milling gears, with NC, once the machine is set up, takes about 10 seconds per tooth. This machine is really a miracle, but not apt for industrial production. There are rumors that these machines were built in into submarines and parachuted to the troops in WW II to enable them to produce any replacement part that was needed for their military gear. All the machines are numbered, I have the No. 506. I doubt that there were many more of them produced than about a thousand. Best regards Peter gene heskett schrieb: On Thursday, November 17, 2011 08:42:09 AM Peter Blodow did opine: Jon, I think Richards original message was a little ironical. I think was he meant was that this EMC2 list is moving towards commercial users more and more, who are making money by using a no cost control program system. Consequently, interests of hobbyists (like I am, too) are going to the background. Nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table, you can buy them for a few dollars. The machine Richard is actually looking for is the UWG, a combined, extremely versatile table top lathe-mill-grinding machine with extraordinary precision (1/100 mm easily) made by the Hommel factory here in Germany from WW II times until about 1970. Since then, those machines have been dealt in ebay and other shops for tremendous prices, even spare parts are paid for by their weight in gold (almost). Call www.ebay.de and look for Hommel UWG, right now there a sale is going on. Google for Hommel UWG and you will get a lot of hits, also from the UK. Besides, UWG is an acronym for Universelles Werkstنtten Gerنt (universal workshop device). I happend to buy one some years ago, saving it from the junk yard. The people who owned it didn't know what a treasure they were to throw away. I added stepper motors and end switches to all axis and run the machine with home made software. As one of the first items I made (PC controlled) some 60 gear wheels for the machine itself from hydraulic piston steel slabs. The reason why I am participating in this list is my wish to run the machine with EMC2, but so far I didn't have the time (and the guts) to start this as a primary project. Peter Now I'll have to clean the drool from my keyboard, Peter. But this is one of those if you have to ask, you can't afford it things. Google found one, a 1973 model, only 7k euro plus ship from .de land. Touring the google output, one site even had a picture of a unimate, the little one with about a 2.5 chuck, which brought back some fond memories as I had borrowed one of those for a couple years back in the '60's. I used it to make a primer pocket swaging tool for mil brass I still own and use occasionally, fits in the ram of a herters U frame reloading press that I still keep just to use it. Made it from a 1/4 grade
Re: [Emc-users] Possible bug in emc when using trivkins for plasma-sim configuration
emc is not run in simulator but in real time, but the configuration is simulator (plasma-sim). There is no hardware atached, I am just using my notebook ( asus k50ij). I have noticed, thar if I wait 5-7 seconds between turning off estop and powering machine, it less likely for this error to occur. On 17/11/2011, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 November 2011 01:30, Sasa Vilic sasavi...@gmail.com wrote: When I start EMC, turn off estop and try to turn on power my Z axis begins to move up, until it reaches 10.xxx and then I get error: joint 2 on limit switch error. Is this in a sim config, or an actual machine? -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On Thursday, November 17, 2011 11:06:00 AM Peter Blodow did opine: Hello Gene, for this reason I am using a plastic cover over the keyboard with pockets for the keys (left over from delivery of the keyboard) :-)) :) Yes, you are right, the rarer, the more expensive. But I bought my machine from someone who didn' have a faint idea and I got it together with the work bench and a drawer type tool cabinet, all filled with parts, for 50 Euros. Admittedly, you've got to find such a guy, but as I didn't even intended to buy such a miraculous machine, I learned: Don't try, and you'll find. As we say, it dropped right into my lap. Damn, I can smell the roses from here. ;) No, there is no mechanical work that would be impossible for the UWG. On the Internet, there is a picture of a guy turning out the brake drum of a large car or truck wheel without even removing the tire. You can do rigid tapping on a tapered shaft, engrave scale lines on conic wheels, turn cones, make 45 degree (or any other angle) gears, asymmetrical worm wheels, hypoid gears and such, both turned and ground. The only thing that is needed besides a lot of ingenuity is time for the changes on the machine and for making all those very little chips, because the motor only has 180 watts :-)) So has my mill. Which is odd as they claim 400 watts, but the motor nameplate says 90 volts, fused at 2 amps. No idea where marketing got that 400 watt figure, but name plates aren't supposed to lie. Right, there are attachments for circular sawing, a precision turntable (which I motorized with a stepper), two XY tables in different sizes with a vise, three chucks, a turning plate, a lot of change gear wheels for threading, several cardan shafts, a three gear shift box, lots of pulleys, and a grinding attachment for 2 rpm (which is lacking on my machine). You can also disengage the nuts and move the ways by a hand lever for grinding. All movements are done with 1 mm pitch spindles, which means an accuracy of 1/400 mm with an ordinary stepper. All nuts are split to remove any play. And it is very sturdy, as the wei'ght of 300 kg for a table top machine implies. All important parts are cast iron, precision ground. The column is a solid 100 mm bar. You can attach dials on every axis to check precision. But, for a complete change from, say, turning to rigid tapping I need about one and a half hour. And a very complete understanding of what it is that you are going to do next. On the other hand, milling gears, with NC, once the machine is set up, takes about 10 seconds per tooth. Not at all shabby. When I was making those sprockets a year or so back, a 13 tooth for #35 chain was probably 20 minutes, part of which was changing the way it was attached to the table, starting out with holddown clamps, drilling holes at 90 degree intervals in the web, removing the clamps, installing the screws in the just drilled holes, and then actually cutting the sprocket teeth. For that tooth profile code, all the credit goes to Andy P. But the teeth were about a thou wide due to the backlash in my rotary table. But a few turns with the chain mounted has largely polished that away. They are keeping some all thread synchronized that moves the fence on my bandsaw when I am resawing thin panels for cabinet door inserts and such. This machine is really a miracle, but not apt for industrial production. There are rumors that these machines were built in into submarines and parachuted to the troops in WW II to enable them to produce any replacement part that was needed for their military gear. All the machines are numbered, I have the No. 506. I doubt that there were many more of them produced than about a thousand. Which makes them darned rare in 2011. And that justifies the pricing seen. I should be so lucky as to stumble over a complete one at a flea market for a $100 bill. I would have to be restrained from breaking his hand putting the bill in it. :) OTOH, I know where there is an original Unisaw I could probably have for that same bill, but I haven't room for it, darnit. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Numeric stability is probably not all that important when you're guessing. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
Or maybe a Sherline or MaxNC. I feel sure I am wrong but from reading this mailing list I get the impression that servo drive is superior to steppers By superior I mean more accurate Has anyone outfitted a Sherline with servos Richard -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On 11/17/2011 5:22 AM, Peter Blodow wrote: Jon, I think Richards original message was a little ironical. I think was he meant was that this EMC2 list is moving towards commercial users more and more, who are making money by using a no cost control program system. Consequently, interests of hobbyists (like I am, too) are going to the background. Nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table, you can buy them for a few dollars. Peter: I find your observation a bit ironical as well. Do you really feel hobbyist interests are going to the background? It seems to me that this list is remarkably tolerant of one's 1) interest, 2) level of skill and knowledge, 3) intention, and 4) financial means. It would seem that all one has to do is ask and someone somewhere will have an answer or a pointer toward someone else who does. It certainly has met my hobbyist needs. As for commercial users who are making money by using a no cost control program system, more power to them. After all, the EMC project at NIST was part of a large national effort to improve the state of manufacturing. That EMC2 seemed initially to cater to hobbyists is more a matter of commercial users shunning an open-source project until they discovered it was a viable alternative to their industrial controllers. I think EMC2 is improved by efforts to introduce capabilities typical of machining centers. I've mentioned on this list before that the Wiki has a poorly kept up section on the future of EMC2. If there are hobbyist interests that you believe need to be addressed, that would be a good place to post them. And you underestimate my desire as a hobbyist when you say nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table Granted, it isn't a watch but a big, noisy electro-mechanical clock I want to make. Nearly everyday during my time at NBS/NIST I would take a moment to look at the Shortt-Synchronome master clock in the library. Eventually I decided I wanted to build one. From there is was an easy segue to the decision that I needed to get into CNC milling before I could start making clock parts. Granted, that's a bit like saying I have to drive to the grocery store so I need to buy a Porsche 911 Carrera S, but you get my drift. Happy machining! Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
Oops, Kent, I suppose I stepped into what we call a lard pot. I didn't intend to hurt anyones's feelings. I myself am very grateful for the tolerance of the members of this list as I myself am a beginner to NC ( have always been and stayed one for the last 30 years or so). However, it took me some time in the beginning of my participance in early 2010 to realize that there were others besides hobbyists, at all! Probably I projected my private hobby situation onto all others, presuming that everybody dealing with such a delicate subject on a private basis will be doing this as a hobby. This would also, I think, correspond to a frequently found german mentality in the field of commerce - if it costs nothing, it is worth nothing. I can't not by far magine that a local workshop owner here would rely on something from the internet without warranty and seven seals on a purchase paper. No local support team, no big name, not for us! Furthermore, I also didn't want to hurt your feelings as a clock maker or what you would call it. I know that the way many times is the goal, and I myself actually only want to know how something works and not produce large quantities for selling. There aren't any machines around this town that are as unproductive as mine - I still like to have them here, knowing I could produce almost any piece at home without going out for shopping, and I 'm proud that I can perform almost any metal working process in my house, from casting, welding, brazing up to all kinds of making chips, and much the same accordingly for wood working, electronics and optics. So, it's surely not ignorance on my part. Now that I come to think about it, I guess I may be a bit frustrated, now being retired, finding out that there still isn't much more time left for my hobby and, above all, that energy for driving all those Porsches is not endless any more But at least I enjoy reading the contributions of this mailing list every day, and I want it to stay that way. I am very grateful to the makers of EMC2 for their great efforts because they are helping me to keep my technical spirits alive. I have also learned a lot of the american way of metalworking today (which is surely not intended by the list's purpose) as my own experience from the US is about 45 years old. I hope you accept my apology. Peter Peter: I find your observation a bit ironical as well. Do you really feel hobbyist interests are going to the background? It seems to me that this list is remarkably tolerant of one's 1) interest, 2) level of skill and knowledge, 3) intention, and 4) financial means. It would seem that all one has to do is ask and someone somewhere will have an answer or a pointer toward someone else who does. It certainly has met my hobbyist needs. As for commercial users who are making money by using a no cost control program system, more power to them. After all, the EMC project at NIST was part of a large national effort to improve the state of manufacturing. That EMC2 seemed initially to cater to hobbyists is more a matter of commercial users shunning an open-source project until they discovered it was a viable alternative to their industrial controllers. I think EMC2 is improved by efforts to introduce capabilities typical of machining centers. I've mentioned on this list before that the Wiki has a poorly kept up section on the future of EMC2. If there are hobbyist interests that you believe need to be addressed, that would be a good place to post them. And you underestimate my desire as a hobbyist when you say nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table Granted, it isn't a watch but a big, noisy electro-mechanical clock I want to make. Nearly everyday during my time at NBS/NIST I would take a moment to look at the Shortt-Synchronome master clock in the library. Eventually I decided I wanted to build one. From there is was an easy segue to the decision that I needed to get into CNC milling before I could start making clock parts. Granted, that's a bit like saying I have to drive to the grocery store so I need to buy a Porsche 911 Carrera S, but you get my drift. Happy machining! Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of
Re: [Emc-users] how small
Kent A. Reed wrote: Oh, man. Check out that control rack, especially the reel-to-reel tape (punched paper?) reader at the bottom of the stack. Reminds me of my early minicomputer days. I get misty-eyed thinking about those days but boy am I glad we've made some progress since! Hell, that's nothing! Have you seen a GE Mark Century, or a GE tape-NC control? I got the motion control hardware out of a GE tape NC control, and looked at, but ran away screaming, from the control itself. It was about 500 paper-phenolic one-sided PC boards with a couple germanium transistors and a bunch of diodes on each board. That was the basic XY positioning control, they added another few hundred boards to do linear interpolation, then a few hundred more to do circular interp. Now, THOSE controls were monsters. I can't IMAGINE how you kept one of those things working. No computer at all, no way to run diagnostics, you had to program a path and see if the control executed what you told it to. If not, be ready to hit E-stop. Jon -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:40 PM, kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote: Or maybe a Sherline or MaxNC. I feel sure I am wrong but from reading this mailing list I get the impression that servo drive is superior to steppers By superior I mean more accurate Has anyone outfitted a Sherline with servos Richard -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Mine is all home brew and stepper, accuracy is as good as your gcode programming and resolution of the drive use exact path mode for best accuracy and spring passes. the machine is ugly but with care and programming around the machine errors one can produce accurate work I tend to drive the axes in one direction to avoid backlash and machine bending errors, measure the result fiddle the program if needed and either a final cut or for the watch verge till I get a good one I can mount. Dave Caroline -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done some jobs about porting EMC2 to ARM9 platforms ?
wrote: Hello everyone, I try to port EMC2 to Mini2440, a platform based on S3C2440 ARM9 processor. I want to ask if anyone have ported EMC2 to platforms based on arm processors. We tried this by getting a Beagle Board and sending it to Torsten Koschorrek in Germany. He is the ARM maintainer for RTAI. That was 18 months ago, and he still has not produces a port for the Beagle. There is a Source Forge project on this http://sourceforge.net/projects/rtai-cortex/ Lately, it seems there has been work on adding the rt-preempt kernel to thise supported by our rtapi interface, and there is an rt-preempt kernel for the Beagle, so that might be close. One nasty thing we found out on the Beagle is that the OMAP CPU has multiplexed GPIO hardware, so the GPIO pins can only be updated every 240 ns (either read or write). Apparently accessing the GPIO also incurs a 240 ns wait state to the processor. This was SO WELL hidden in the TI OMAP manual that I still can't find any place where this bottleneck is fully described. Jon -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote: Or maybe a Sherline or MaxNC. I feel sure I am wrong but from reading this mailing list I get the impression that servo drive is superior to steppers By superior I mean more accurate Has anyone outfitted a Sherline with servos I've done a Taig. Servos are not necessarily more accurate, but the positioning is PROVABLE, meaning that the encoders can be fed back to the computer for continuous measurement. So, you can graph the error at various speeds and during acceleration, and then KNOW what the following error is. With steppers, there is very little following error (they lose sync if error exceeds half a full-step), but there are delays in the stepper drive and resonances that can worsen accuracy. And, of course, the computer never knows when a stepper loses a step or stalls, and blindly continues cutting the part wrong. But, then I'm an avowed servo bigot. Jon -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Concrete Lathe
On 11/17/2011 5:21 AM, Mark Wendt wrote: On 11/16/2011 01:28 PM, Dave wrote: Looks like most of the Datron mills actually have solid granite bases - most of them are not a composite polymer-granite dust mix. I have bought some epoxy resin to repair boat hulls and the best price I can find for non-blushing epoxy resin is about $75 per gallon including the hardener with shipping. So a gravel/epoxy composite or granite dust/expoxy composite frame is going to be a lot more expensive than basic concrete which is going for about $150 per cubic yard around here delivered in a mix truck. Making an epoxy/gravel composite would also take some experimenting as epoxy tends to self heat as it is sets and it can get very hot. I have no idea how they control curing in thicker structures with epoxy. I have had a cup of mixed epoxy get so hot, that I was not able to hold onto to it. (too much activator in the mix). The hotter it gets during a cure, the faster it sets so it can become a tail chasing exercise on thicker parts. That is why most boat hulls are laid up in thin layers - usually less than 1/8th inch per layer. Andy I think we got these old imperial measurements from you guys! Apparently we are rather resistant to change.But I'm still waiting for the UK to adopt the Euro...any day now .. right??;-) Dave Dave, There are application epoxies that are designed to cure in bulk, and do not exhibit the high heat generation that a typical laminating epoxy does when mixed up and kept in a container in large amounts. The epoxy I used to use to make molds and plugs was a greenish color and had metal dust and a few other additives in it to make the final product strong. Had a very slow cure rate, something like 48 hours for the initial cure, and then you had to finish with a heat cure to get to the final hardness. Prior to the heat cure, the epoxy never got much warmer than a human's body heat. Laminating epoxies, like the ones you mentioned above, have much shorter cure times, because they use the exothermic heat generated by the chemical reaction to hasten the cure, moreso than the much, much slower curing molding epoxy like I use. Of course, there are laminating epoxies that don't quite fit that mold (no pun intended), like the Epon epoxy I use to glue up the bamboo rods that I make. That epoxy has a 7 day cure at 65 degrees F, though you can, and I do, heat cure it. Mark Very interesting I am always learning things from this list. :-) Thanks, Dave -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
I've retrofitted a Sherline/A2ZCNC with servos. Given the choice I would always use them over steppers because they close multiple control loops. For some photos of the custom motor mounts and other stuff you can check out the last three issues of Digital Machinist magazine and look for the ServoMill articles. Cheers, Jim -Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com] Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:41 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] how small kqt4a...@comcast.net wrote: Or maybe a Sherline or MaxNC. I feel sure I am wrong but from reading this mailing list I get the impression that servo drive is superior to steppers By superior I mean more accurate Has anyone outfitted a Sherline with servos I've done a Taig. Servos are not necessarily more accurate, but the positioning is PROVABLE, meaning that the encoders can be fed back to the computer for continuous measurement. So, you can graph the error at various speeds and during acceleration, and then KNOW what the following error is. With steppers, there is very little following error (they lose sync if error exceeds half a full-step), but there are delays in the stepper drive and resonances that can worsen accuracy. And, of course, the computer never knows when a stepper loses a step or stalls, and blindly continues cutting the part wrong. But, then I'm an avowed servo bigot. Jon -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users This communication is for the use of the intended recipient only. It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, the disclosure, copying, distribution or use hereof is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please advise me by return e-mail or by telephone and then delete it immediately. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On Thursday, November 17, 2011 12:05:10 PM kqt4a...@comcast.net did opine: Or maybe a Sherline or MaxNC. I feel sure I am wrong but from reading this mailing list I get the impression that servo drive is superior to steppers By superior I mean more accurate This is likely where you will get differing opinions. Unless you have preloaded ball screws and other parts of the driving mechanics similarly backlash-free, and have mapped the screws for errors, the backlash inherent in most machines will IMO make this argument moot. My backlash ridden acme screws, with split nuts for lash control, is a much larger source of error than the servo/stepper argument can ever be. For instance, with 20 tpi screws, a microstepping driver currently running at 16x, I have an inch divided by 20=0.050 per turn of the screw. My motors are the usual suspects, 400 step/rev motors, so a full step then is that .050/400=0.000125 for a full motor step. Now assuming a perfect mapping between steps (like that will ever happen), and operating at 16 microsteps, then I have a theoretical accuracy of 7.8125e-06 in the xy directions! Can servos match it? Probably with careful setup using very expensive measurement tools. Unless making clock and watch parts like Ian is, likely overkill. Can my machine actually do it? (insert laugh track here) Of course not. But it has milled the seats for the ball bearings hidden inside the nut carrier for my z axis, and which fit well enough that I drilled a hole calculated to hit the greasing hole in those shielded bearings, through which about an oz of grease has been injected, and the grease that escaped all came out through the gaps in the bearings shield. So one could claim that it can and has milled pretty close to a true circle. The phrase that comes to mind is one an ex bro-in-law was fond of, it was good enough for the girls he went with. ;) Backlash comp tweaking means I can get something under a thou for a few hours wear after a few hours of tweaking backlash settings in the ini file, with a restart of emc each time I edit a backlash figure, a very time consuming effort when the backlash motion calc isn't split, but all to one side of the position, and according to Murphy, always the wrong side according to my .0005 dial indicator, so I have to re-zero each time I restart. :) It would be helpful if the .ini files value was /2, and applied as correction to both directions so a dial indicator could be setup and centered, and it then remained so after the restart. Or, perhaps the position file could have a + or - sign appended to value record the direction it was last moved, and the recovered position based on that? One of my wishes is that at some point in 2.5, emc's axis display front end grows a pulldown menu that will allow backlash to be tweaked in real time and saved in a file for reload at rebooting emc time. This would be nice as would the ability to map the screw for both faces of the screw effectively giving us a dynamic backlash compensating means along with the error map. This would be even handier for those with ball screws that are showing signs of wear or maybe have been over-stressed while moving. That of course is assuming that one has the means to make such accurate measurements. As a hobbyist, the cost of such measurement tools far exceeds my mostly SS funded budget. For me, when drilling holes at x intervals, the screws I have _are_ my long distance standard. And it has worked very well for me, so far, the mistakes that have been made, and there have been quite a few, are all mine. ;-) I guess my point of all this rambling drivel is, that when looking for more accuracy, you should attack the biggest errors first, particularly when they are hundreds of times larger than this particular argument probably is. I would posit that even with good ball screws, the mechanical errors will exceed the electronic errors rather handily, from thermal growth in the machine if for no other reason. I suppose one could take the machines temperature and setup yet another table it rereads when the temp change is noted by emc. Whether that is worth it again depends on the scale of what you are doing. Potentially quite valuable for Stewart and his monster cinci, but IMO serious overkill for carving watch parts. Or a trigger guard bow for a BP rifle out of solid brass, the last job I did with mine. Has anyone outfitted a Sherline with servos Richard Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Yow! And then we could sit on the hoods of cars at stop lights! -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On Thursday, November 17, 2011 02:23:07 PM Kent A. Reed did opine: On 11/17/2011 5:22 AM, Peter Blodow wrote: Jon, I think Richards original message was a little ironical. I think was he meant was that this EMC2 list is moving towards commercial users more and more, who are making money by using a no cost control program system. Consequently, interests of hobbyists (like I am, too) are going to the background. Nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table, you can buy them for a few dollars. Peter: I find your observation a bit ironical as well. Do you really feel hobbyist interests are going to the background? It seems to me that this list is remarkably tolerant of one's 1) interest, 2) level of skill and knowledge, 3) intention, and 4) financial means. It would seem that all one has to do is ask and someone somewhere will have an answer or a pointer toward someone else who does. It certainly has met my hobbyist needs. Very well said, Kent. I am continually impressed, both on this list, and on IRC, of the number of people who will, in between changing pallets of a production job, stop and try, usually successfully, to answer questions from a hobbyist that can often be replied to with a curt RTFM, but who instead take the time to try and teach an old fart like me how to do it. A huge tip of the hat to those folks, you know who you are, and TBT it is most of you. As for commercial users who are making money by using a no cost control program system, more power to them. After all, the EMC project at NIST was part of a large national effort to improve the state of manufacturing. That EMC2 seemed initially to cater to hobbyists is more a matter of commercial users shunning an open-source project until they discovered it was a viable alternative to their industrial controllers. I think EMC2 is improved by efforts to introduce capabilities typical of machining centers. Tremendously so. Scratching an itch if you will, and we all benefit. I've mentioned on this list before that the Wiki has a poorly kept up section on the future of EMC2. If there are hobbyist interests that you believe need to be addressed, that would be a good place to post them. And you underestimate my desire as a hobbyist when you say nobody seriously wants to make watches on the kitchen table Granted, it isn't a watch but a big, noisy electro-mechanical clock I want to make. Nearly everyday during my time at NBS/NIST I would take a moment to look at the Shortt-Synchronome master clock in the library. Is that described in a wiki someplace? Eventually I decided I wanted to build one. From there is was an easy segue to the decision that I needed to get into CNC milling before I could start making clock parts. Granted, that's a bit like saying I have to drive to the grocery store so I need to buy a Porsche 911 Carrera S, but you get my drift. Exactly. ;-) Happy machining! Regards, Kent Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Adding sound to movies would be like putting lipstick on the Venus de Milo. -- actress Mary Pickford, 1925 -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] RMV ST400 driver board question
I posted this question before but didn't see it show up. So please forgive me if it did go through. I received one of these boards from a friend of mine thinking that I would use it with my mill and EMC2. However it appears that the board only works with the serial port of the computer and not the printer port. Has anyone had any experience with one of of these boards and know whether or not that it will work with EMC2? Chris -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On 11/17/2011 1:25 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Kent A. Reed wrote: Oh, man. Check out that control rack, especially the reel-to-reel tape (punched paper?) reader at the bottom of the stack. Reminds me of my early minicomputer days. I get misty-eyed thinking about those days but boy am I glad we've made some progress since! Hell, that's nothing! Have you seen a GE Mark Century, or a GE tape-NC control? I got the motion control hardware out of a GE tape NC control, and looked at, but ran away screaming, from the control itself. It was about 500 paper-phenolic one-sided PC boards with a couple germanium transistors and a bunch of diodes on each board. That was the basic XY positioning control, they added another few hundred boards to do linear interpolation, then a few hundred more to do circular interp. Now, THOSE controls were monsters. I can't IMAGINE how you kept one of those things working. No computer at all, no way to run diagnostics, you had to program a path and see if the control executed what you told it to. If not, be ready to hit E-stop. Jon GE Mark Century... should I post a few pictures of one?? :-) I work with one once in a while on a large lathe - 100 hp spindle etc. However I try and avoid it! The romance with that control wears off pretty fast as Jon mentioned. Yes, it was well designed ages ago but it really deserves to be in a museum someplace rather than on a machine tool. I expect I will be retrofitting this lathe one of these days with EMC2 and when I do it will lose 5-800 lbs in controller weight. And this is a newer one with a couple of Intel 8080's on some of the boards. It even has onboard retentive memory!!! This was one state of the art control many years ago. Still, I think the control has at least 20 plug in PC boards. The controls flake out once in a while. If they don't start up the machine and let it run for 4-5 hours in cooler weather so it will heat up and stabilize, the controls will fault out periodically while cutting. Not good when you are trying to make parts for pay. Dave -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Stepconf is correct but EMC2/Axis gives 1/2 travel
Gents, I upgraded my PC to latest EMC2 (the 10.10 CD) and reconfigured with Stepconf (this is a step/dir servo based machine). If I test the config in Stepconf the axis is moving correct distance, but when I start EMC2/Axis for real the travel is only the half! When I physically measure 100 mm of travel, it says 200 mm in Axis... Anyone who can help out of this? Regards, Sven -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stepconf is correct but EMC2/Axis gives 1/2 travel
Ignore my stupidity. Stepconf test is doing x mm in BOTH ways, not in total. 2011/11/17 Sven Wesley svenne.d...@gmail.com Gents, I upgraded my PC to latest EMC2 (the 10.10 CD) and reconfigured with Stepconf (this is a step/dir servo based machine). If I test the config in Stepconf the axis is moving correct distance, but when I start EMC2/Axis for real the travel is only the half! When I physically measure 100 mm of travel, it says 200 mm in Axis... Anyone who can help out of this? Regards, Sven -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] RMV ST400 driver board question
On 17 November 2011 19:41, Chris Reynolds c_reynolds2...@yahoo.com wrote: I received one of these boards from a friend of mine thinking that I would use it with my mill and EMC2. However it appears that the board only works with the serial port of the computer and not the printer port. Has anyone had any experience with one of of these boards and know whether or not that it will work with EMC2? I think it might be a challenge. Hostmot2 has a fast UART which can work in a realtime HAL driver. I am not aware of any byte-level realtime drivers for the standard serial port (there is a component that twiddles the handshaking lines, though) -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On 11/17/2011 1:13 PM, Peter Blodow wrote: Oops, Kent, I suppose I stepped into what we call a lard pot. I didn't intend to hurt anyones's feelings. I myself am very grateful for the tolerance of Es ist gar nichts. And I was being ironical myself when I mentioned my interest in clocks as my excuse to indulge myself with CNC tools :-) Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done some jobs about porting EMC2 to ARM9 platforms ?
On 11/17/2011 1:36 PM, Jon Elson wrote: 张 恒 wrote: Hello everyone, I try to port EMC2 to Mini2440, a platform based on S3C2440 ARM9 processor. I want to ask if anyone have ported EMC2 to platforms based on arm processors. We tried this by getting a Beagle Board and sending it to Torsten Koschorrek in Germany. He is the ARM maintainer for RTAI. That was 18 months ago, and he still has not produces a port for the Beagle. There is a Source Forge project on this http://sourceforge.net/projects/rtai-cortex/ Lately, it seems there has been work on adding the rt-preempt kernel to thise supported by our rtapi interface, and there is an rt-preempt kernel for the Beagle, so that might be close. One nasty thing we found out on the Beagle is that the OMAP CPU has multiplexed GPIO hardware, so the GPIO pins can only be updated every 240 ns (either read or write). Apparently accessing the GPIO also incurs a 240 ns wait state to the processor. This was SO WELL hidden in the TI OMAP manual that I still can't find any place where this bottleneck is fully described. Well, I certainly never heard of this until now, and I spent a fair amount of time reading the docs when you were first talking about the Beagle Board. Now I don't feel so bad that some time ago I got tired of waiting on results from Torsten and decided to build the BB I bought into a pedestrian, non-real time project. I fear this kind of hidden gotcha is going to show up in every hot, new SoC. Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how small
As someone with practical experience of trying to use cnc to make watch parts in my capacity as restorer and repairer of antique chronometers and complicated watches I can say that its usefulness is very limited. I built a small cnc mill with the express purpose of using it to help me make some of the parts I need to replace in the antique watches I work on but it has really seen comparatively little use for this purpose. I trained myself over the years to use the methods and tricks of the old time watchmakers from the time before electricity and modern materials and I honestly find these methods much quicker than trying to use cnc for one-off parts. I have cut (gear) wheels down to less than 1/8 diameter with up to 20 teeth on the cnc machine (see album at https://picasaweb.google.com/114833214086356299537/WatchParts?authuser=0authkey=Gv1sRgCJLN-tn5hPeEzwEfeat=directlink - these wheels are sitting on a British 5 pence coin which is a little over 1/2 inch diameter) but, while the machine did the automatic dividing and cutting, I still had to make the means of holding the wheel blanks and the cutters etc. which took as long as if I had just cut them on the watch lathe with a simple division plate (2nd photo). I originally thought that cnc would be an easy way of making some of the flat parts for the striking and repeating work on the watches but that proved to be a failure. Whilst I can draw or design the missing or broken parts in a CAD program - in Rhino, for example, I can use a photograph of the watch mechanism suitably scaled as a background and actually draw the new part as if it were in the watch (3rd photo), translating that into metal on the cnc machine is often impossible. Much of the 'flatwork' needs sharp internal corners such as in racks (several of the other photos) and this is impossible to produce with rotary tools such as endmills. The sizes involved are just too small to be able to find or make a small enough endmill which is also robust enough to cut tool steel (say 8 or 10 thou diameter). Consequently, any attempt to mill out the perimeter of such a part would end up as just a series of blunt indentations which would not even be good enough to give the accurate location of the working edges. The other big problem is in holding the work. The last 3 pictures show various staffs which I have had to make for watches. The little one which is less than the width of the pinhead (normal dressmaking pin) was for a wheel in the striking work of a small dress pocket watch from about 1728 - how would you hold that to machine it in a cnc machine? The next is a couple of cylinder watch balance staffs which are polished steel tubes with end plugs for the pivots and about 3/4 of the tube wall cut away at the opening. The last picture is rather a rarity, thank goodness, and is the balance staff from a very high class, French, 'ruby' cylinder watch dated about 1730 although this 'ruby' is actually pale sapphire. The end pivots on this were badly bent and couldn't be repaired and so I had to make a complete new staff - it took many attempts over about 3 weeks before I got a good one!!! The staff is a hollow steel tube which is used as a cage to hold the 'working part' near the wheel which is a cylinder of sapphire about 1mm diameter and 0.7mm bore with almost half its diameter cut away and the cut edges polished to a defined profile. The original was cracked and it took a lot of thought, trial and error before I managed to find a way to make and polish a new one!! The bottom part of the staff is also cut away for about 80% of its diameter. So come on Jon, how would you make these on your Bridgeport ;-) Having said that, if you are prepared to put in the hours necessary to design the parts, make the wheel cutters and the jigs necessary to hold the parts while they are being machined, you probably could make 70% of the parts for a very basic watch by cnc - they would still need hours of fitting and finishing and there would be parts that you just couldn't make but it would provide a lengthy distraction from other things and you would be able to make hundreds of the same parts. For myself, I'll just carry on making the parts simply, by hand methods as, for one-offs, I know it is the quickest way.. In the watch industry now, most of the parts other than the main plates are made by wire erosion or by photo etching and the design of parts has been adjusted to suit these methods. Best wishes, Ian _ Ian W. Wright Sheffield UK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1872 / Virus Database: 2092/4621 - Release Date: 11/16/11 -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent
Re: [Emc-users] how small
On 17 November 2011 22:20, Ian W. Wright watchma...@talktalk.net wrote: most of the parts other than the main plates are made by wire erosion I was thinking that a wire-erosion machine might be the way to go for your parts. We would need to make EMC2 able to back up before that would work, though. (possibly through allowing negative feed-over-ride) -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] problem with genserkins
2011/11/17 Francesca Sca fancy_...@yahoo.it: Viesturs wrote: Then there is very nice way to solve it: Use mux2 and limit3 components: Mux2.sel pin should be the open/close command (can be driven from g-code, if linked to spindle or coolant on/off HAL pins), mux2.in0 and mux2.in1 should be stepgen positions, when gripper is closed and open. Link mux2.out to limit3 input, set acceleration and velocity limits in limit3 and link limit3 output to stepgen pos-cmd input. You can explain me better this? Which are the right lines that I must add to my .hal file? You will have to do some reading to understand, what You have to do in the HAL file. My idea is to use mux2 and limit3 components to control the stepper motor of the gripper. http://gnipsel.com/emc2/html2.5/man/man9/mux2.9.html The way mux2 works: mux2.n.out = mux2.n.in0, if mux2.n.sel = false mux2.n.out = mux2.n.in1, if mux2.n.sel = true Attach the mux2.n.sel pin to open/close command and set mux2.n.in0 and mux2.n.in1 values to stepper motor positions that correspond to gripper being closed or open. Using limit3 will let You set the acceleration and velocity for the stepper motor easily. http://gnipsel.com/emc2/html2.5/man/man9/limit3.9.html Viesturs -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] OT: Shortt-Synchronome clock
Gentle persons: Gene Heskett asked me if there is a website describing the Shortt-Synchronome clock I mentioned. One could start at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock which includes a photograph of the one at NIST, No. 32 out of perhaps twice that many sold to others. The reasons I fell in love with it include: 1) it consists of two pendulums, one running in a commonplace industrial clock---the Synchronome time transmitter---and one running in a vacuum---the Shortt free pendulum---cross-coupled electrically, that was the most accurate pendulum clock in the world. It that was surpassed as a time keeper only when crystal oscillators were put to the task. As a physicist, I admired this ingenious coupled oscillator system and the two men who invented it. 2) the clock is a precise time keeper but it is very imprecisely made. Most of the Synchronome parts could be hacked out of pieces of flat and round stock using saws, files, and drill bits (so why CNC? Because I say so, that's why!). The principal difficulty with the Shortt free pendulum is its vacuum encasement, and more than one amateur has simply ignored that bit and lived with the loss of precision. Anyone looking at this clock would think Heck, I could do that. Compare it to the Riefler observatory clock that hangs near the Shortt-Synchronome clock at NIST. One look behind the Riefler dial or at the Riefler patent drawings would convince one that this is a project for the masters (see, for example, http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Physics/Ladd/instruments/clemens.html). 3) Frank Hope-Jones, the inventor and manufacturer of the Synchronome clock and first the boss and then collaborator of William Hamilton Shortt, the inventor of the cross-coupled free pendulum, explicitly supported amateurs desiring to make their own copies of his clocks, even providing kits of rough parts long ago. He openly published on all aspects of his clocks. (He was also a shameless self-promoter as you'll see in all his publications, but what the heck, nobody's perfect.) No trade secrets and no patent trolls to deal with. The 500 or so members of the Yahoo Synchronome Group now have wider interests than just the Synchronome but many members own genuine Synchronome time transmitters or have made their own. Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Has anyone done some jobs about porting EMC2 to ARM9 platforms ?
Kent A. Reed wrote: Well, I certainly never heard of this until now, and I spent a fair amount of time reading the docs when you were first talking about the Beagle Board. Now I don't feel so bad that some time ago I got tired of waiting on results from Torsten and decided to build the BB I bought into a pedestrian, non-real time project. 240 ns is not a killer! That is still faster than the PC parallel port, if it is used right. But, it sure slows down what the OMAP COULD be capable of doing. Jon -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Shortt-Synchronome clock
On Thursday, November 17, 2011 10:58:38 PM Kent A. Reed did opine: Gentle persons: Gene Heskett asked me if there is a website describing the Shortt-Synchronome clock I mentioned. One could start at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock which includes a photograph of the one at NIST, No. 32 out of perhaps twice that many sold to others. Amazing for its day, and still damned impressive. Obviously the output of a genius mind. Thanks Kent. The only detail the wiki didn't cover was the method of detecting the position of the master pendulum. In 1920 we had no vacuum phototubes (that I am aware of that is) which could have optically measured the position of the pendulum without acting as a large friction loss. Their statement that it had a 'Q' of 110,000 is close to a cheap quartz crystal's performance today, one that is not vacuum sealed but is running in the usual ambient pressure dry nitrogen atmosphere. The reasons I fell in love with it include: 1) it consists of two pendulums, one running in a commonplace industrial clock---the Synchronome time transmitter---and one running in a vacuum---the Shortt free pendulum---cross-coupled electrically, that was the most accurate pendulum clock in the world. It that was surpassed as a time keeper only when crystal oscillators were put to the task. As a physicist, I admired this ingenious coupled oscillator system and the two men who invented it. 2) the clock is a precise time keeper but it is very imprecisely made. Most of the Synchronome parts could be hacked out of pieces of flat and round stock using saws, files, and drill bits (so why CNC? Because I say so, that's why!). The principal difficulty with the Shortt free pendulum is its vacuum encasement, and more than one amateur has simply ignored that bit and lived with the loss of precision. Anyone looking at this clock would think Heck, I could do that. Compare it to the Riefler observatory clock that hangs near the Shortt-Synchronome clock at NIST. One look behind the Riefler dial or at the Riefler patent drawings would convince one that this is a project for the masters (see, for example, http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Physics/Ladd/instruments/clemens.html). Agreed, and woefully short of details, like is that a hand pumped vacuum pump in front it its cabinet/tank? 3) Frank Hope-Jones, the inventor and manufacturer of the Synchronome clock and first the boss and then collaborator of William Hamilton Shortt, the inventor of the cross-coupled free pendulum, explicitly supported amateurs desiring to make their own copies of his clocks, even providing kits of rough parts long ago. He openly published on all aspects of his clocks. (He was also a shameless self-promoter as you'll see in all his publications, but what the heck, nobody's perfect.) No trade secrets and no patent trolls to deal with. The 500 or so members of the Yahoo Synchronome Group now have wider interests than just the Synchronome but many members own genuine Synchronome time transmitters or have made their own. Regards, Kent Thanks Kent. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene In 1880 the French captured Detroit but gave it back ... they couldn't get parts. -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Shortt-Synchronome clock
Kent, I have a mechanical clock that was used to control and synchronize about 100 slave clocks in our company. It is built very simple, but uses two important principles: the pendulum is made if invar steel and the driving chain is endless, the weight being wound up electrically every minute by the same amount that it has been sinking during that minute. The minute slave impulse was used for this. Thus, the weight of the chain is to be neglected. For decades, all the employees came to work as the clock ruled. Being a physicist, too, I could not let such a device just go down the drain. When it was replaced by an electronic radio controlled system, I salvaged it - literally - out of the junk container, gave it a goldish outer appearance and placed it on the wall behind the desk chair in my director's office. When I retired, I took it home, and it will be placed right next to the other wall clocks I am keeping for sentimentality. The modern electronic system I abandonned soon after because everybody has their own precise clocks with them privately. If you are interested in the clock, I can mail you pictures of it (address, because this is off the list!). Peter Kent A. Reed schrieb: Gentle persons: Gene Heskett asked me if there is a website describing the Shortt-Synchronome clock I mentioned. One could start at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortt-Synchronome_clock which includes a photograph of the one at NIST, No. 32 out of perhaps twice that many sold to others. The reasons I fell in love with it include: 1) it consists of two pendulums, one running in a commonplace industrial clock---the Synchronome time transmitter---and one running in a vacuum---the Shortt free pendulum---cross-coupled electrically, that was the most accurate pendulum clock in the world. It that was surpassed as a time keeper only when crystal oscillators were put to the task. As a physicist, I admired this ingenious coupled oscillator system and the two men who invented it. 2) the clock is a precise time keeper but it is very imprecisely made. Most of the Synchronome parts could be hacked out of pieces of flat and round stock using saws, files, and drill bits (so why CNC? Because I say so, that's why!). The principal difficulty with the Shortt free pendulum is its vacuum encasement, and more than one amateur has simply ignored that bit and lived with the loss of precision. Anyone looking at this clock would think Heck, I could do that. Compare it to the Riefler observatory clock that hangs near the Shortt-Synchronome clock at NIST. One look behind the Riefler dial or at the Riefler patent drawings would convince one that this is a project for the masters (see, for example, http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Physics/Ladd/instruments/clemens.html). 3) Frank Hope-Jones, the inventor and manufacturer of the Synchronome clock and first the boss and then collaborator of William Hamilton Shortt, the inventor of the cross-coupled free pendulum, explicitly supported amateurs desiring to make their own copies of his clocks, even providing kits of rough parts long ago. He openly published on all aspects of his clocks. (He was also a shameless self-promoter as you'll see in all his publications, but what the heck, nobody's perfect.) No trade secrets and no patent trolls to deal with. The 500 or so members of the Yahoo Synchronome Group now have wider interests than just the Synchronome but many members own genuine Synchronome time transmitters or have made their own. Regards, Kent -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- All the data continuously generated in your IT infrastructure contains a definitive record of customers, application performance, security threats, fraudulent activity, and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of it. IT sense. And common sense. http://p.sf.net/sfu/splunk-novd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
