Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i23 7i39 - possible damage?
Hello again! I checked 7i39 manual 2 more times, did not find any warning that would tell not to pull up to 5V, so I turned PC off and set all the 5i23 connectors to pull up to 5V. What I am seeing now makes me think that there is something wrong: In HAL file I have: setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.040.is_output 1 setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.040.invert_output 1 When output is false: There are 3,46V between 5i23 pin and GND. There are 1,68V between 5i23 pin and +5V. When output is true: There are 0.6V between 5i23 pin and GND. There are 4.65V between 5i23 pin and +5V. I measured: it actually has 5,4V between +5V and GND. I think that voltages, when output is true are ok, but I think that there is something wrong with the false state. Am I missing something here? Viesturs 2012/1/27 Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com: Hello! In my attempts to understand, why I cannot get my diy output driver for switching the laser power on/off, I discovered that 5i23's gpio pins aru pulled up to only 3,3V, not 5V, when turned off, so there is 1,7 V still remaining supplied to optoisolator. There are jumpers on 5i23 that determine, if pins are pulled up to 3,3 or 5V. I have 7i39 card attached to the same connector. Is there a chance for possible damage for 7i39, if I will set that connector to pull up all pins to 5V instead of 3,3V? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] question about tapered threading (etc)
On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 22:06:30 +, you wrote: On 26 January 2012 21:55, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote: http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/delectron/g-code-programming-manual/14577-33189-_23.html Andy - that is for Milling Machines. Typical function for lathes, can also be used in milling machines is what it says. Read the following CNC Programming Handbook by Peter Smid, a must for everyone who wants to know about CNC programming and even those who think they already do :) Machinery's Handbook, Fanuc or Siemens and all the DIN, ISO, BS standards define the pitch along the long axis, not the taper. I'm not asking that the existing G33 be abandoned, just an addition, correct version added, preferably using G32. Steve Blackmore -- -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Hello, folks! I would appreciate some advice on servo tuning. I have Keling Nema23 BLDC servo motors attached to Mesa 7i39. And also zero experience with this :) The way I am doing the tuning is: 1) start Emc, hit F1 and F2; 2) open Machine - Calibration; 3) change P value, for example, from 1 to 3, press Test and then try jogging the joint; 4) my target max velocity is 10m/min, which would require 4000 rpm on motor, so I start jogging at 1100 mm/min - seems fine, increase speed to ~3000 mm/min and motor starts oscillating; When motor starts oscillating, I hit F2 to disable any movement and motor stops; So here I would like to change some PID values and then try again. The problem I have encountered is: Motor starts oscillating again as soon as I hit F2 regardless of what are the PID settings. If I restart Emc and start over, it is fine with the same PID settings until the moment it gets a chance to start oscillating again - then I cannot stop it from doing that. Setting PID values back to default also does not help - it will oscillate anyway. Why on earth would it oscillate as soon as motion is enabled? Is there a way to aviod it? Default PID values are: DEADBAND = 0.000 P = 1 I = 0 D = 0 FF0 = 1 FF1 = 1 FF2 = 0 BIAS = 0 I have been playing only with P parameter so far, following this guideline: 1) increase P up to the moment, when motor becomes unstable; 2) add I to make it stable; 3) add D to make the loop stiffer; In my previous attempts I had: DEADBAND = 0.0005 P = 90 I = 40 D = 1,65 FF0 = 0 FF1 = 1,5 FF2 = 0 BIAS = 0,0005 From previous discussions I recall that FF1 should be very close to 1, like 1,001 or something like that. Since I have it larger, I decided to start over, because the motor still was oscillating at 2700 mm/min. Viesturs P.S. How hard would it be to create some kind of auto-tuning routine? -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i23 7i39 - possible damage?
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:10:02 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i23 7i39 - possible damage? Hello again! I checked 7i39 manual 2 more times, did not find any warning that would tell not to pull up to 5V, so I turned PC off and set all the 5i23 connectors to pull up to 5V. What I am seeing now makes me think that there is something wrong: In HAL file I have: setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.040.is_output 1 setp hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.040.invert_output 1 When output is false: There are 3,46V between 5i23 pin and GND. There are 1,68V between 5i23 pin and +5V. When output is true: There are 0.6V between 5i23 pin and GND. There are 4.65V between 5i23 pin and +5V. I measured: it actually has 5,4V between +5V and GND. I think that voltages, when output is true are ok, but I think that there is something wrong with the false state. Am I missing something here? Viesturs This is expected. The FPGA outputs only swing to 3.3V when driven by the FPGA, You can get 5V output swing, but only if you set the FPGA outputs you wish to have 5V swing to open drain mode and you have the connector (W1,W4,W7) set to 5V (UP) and pullup power (W2,W5,W8) set to 5V (UP) and bus switch mode (W3,W6,W9) set to 5V (UP) Note that in open drain mode the the output can sink significant current (pull the output down) but can only source what the pullup resistor supplies (~1.6 mA from 3.3K pullup returned to 5V with output grounded) 2012/1/27 Viesturs L??cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com: Hello! In my attempts to understand, why I cannot get my diy output driver for switching the laser power on/off, I discovered that 5i23's gpio pins aru pulled up to only 3,3V, not 5V, when turned off, so there is 1,7 V still remaining supplied to optoisolator. There are jumpers on 5i23 that determine, if pins are pulled up to 3,3 or 5V. I have 7i39 card attached to the same connector. Is there a chance for possible damage for 7i39, if I will set that connector to pull up all pins to 5V instead of 3,3V? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:45:30 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? Hello, folks! I would appreciate some advice on servo tuning. I have Keling Nema23 BLDC servo motors attached to Mesa 7i39. And also zero experience with this :) The way I am doing the tuning is: 1) start Emc, hit F1 and F2; 2) open Machine - Calibration; 3) change P value, for example, from 1 to 3, press Test and then try jogging the joint; 4) my target max velocity is 10m/min, which would require 4000 rpm on motor, so I start jogging at 1100 mm/min - seems fine, increase speed to ~3000 mm/min and motor starts oscillating; When motor starts oscillating, I hit F2 to disable any movement and motor stops; So here I would like to change some PID values and then try again. The problem I have encountered is: Motor starts oscillating again as soon as I hit F2 regardless of what are the PID settings. If I restart Emc and start over, it is fine with the same PID settings until the moment it gets a chance to start oscillating again - then I cannot stop it from doing that. Setting PID values back to default also does not help - it will oscillate anyway. Why on earth would it oscillate as soon as motion is enabled? Is there a way to aviod it? Default PID values are: DEADBAND = 0.000 P = 1 I = 0 D = 0 FF0 = 1 FF1 = 1 FF2 = 0 BIAS = 0 Start with no FF0 and FF1 I have been playing only with P parameter so far, following this guideline: 1) increase P up to the moment, when motor becomes unstable; 2) add I to make it stable; 3) add D to make the loop stiffer; This is wrong, you add D to make it more stable not I I is added in small does only when all other tuning is close to remove the last bit of static error and slew errors In my previous attempts I had: DEADBAND = 0.0005 P = 90 I = 40 D = 1,65 FF0 = 0 FF1 = 1,5 FF2 = 0 BIAS = 0,0005 From previous discussions I recall that FF1 should be very close to 1, like 1,001 or something like that. Since I have it larger, I decided to start over, because the motor still was oscillating at 2700 mm/min. Viesturs P.S. How hard would it be to create some kind of auto-tuning routine? FF1 will only be close to 1 with the PID/PWM scale set correctly for the situation BTW what is you sample period? depending on motor poles and RPM required you may need to decrease the sample period from the default 1 ma to maybe 250 uSec (4 KHz) -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] question about tapered threading (etc)
On 27 January 2012 08:32, Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net wrote: I'm not asking that the existing G33 be abandoned, just an addition, correct version added, preferably using G32. As I said earlier, that's fairly easy to do with the G-code remapping functions in version 2.6. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i23 7i39 - possible damage?
On 27 January 2012 08:10, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: When output is false: There are 3,46V between 5i23 pin and GND. There are 1,68V between 5i23 pin and +5V. When output is true: There are 0.6V between 5i23 pin and GND. There are 4.65V between 5i23 pin and +5V. I think that should be OK. What the setting you have made does is make the outputs 5V-safe, rather than into 5V outputs. The trick is to use them as sinking outputs. You connect the opto +5V to the +5V rail, and the opto 0V pin to the 5i23. When the pin is high, no current flows. When the pin is low, current flows. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 11:45:30 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? Hello, folks! I would appreciate some advice on servo tuning. I have Keling Nema23 BLDC servo motors attached to Mesa 7i39. And also zero experience with this :) The way I am doing the tuning is: 1) start Emc, hit F1 and F2; 2) open Machine - Calibration; 3) change P value, for example, from 1 to 3, press Test and then try jogging the joint; 4) my target max velocity is 10m/min, which would require 4000 rpm on motor, so I start jogging at 1100 mm/min - seems fine, increase speed to ~3000 mm/min and motor starts oscillating; When motor starts oscillating, I hit F2 to disable any movement and motor stops; So here I would like to change some PID values and then try again. The problem I have encountered is: Motor starts oscillating again as soon as I hit F2 regardless of what are the PID settings. If I restart Emc and start over, it is fine with the same PID settings until the moment it gets a chance to start oscillating again - then I cannot stop it from doing that. Setting PID values back to default also does not help - it will oscillate anyway. Why on earth would it oscillate as soon as motion is enabled? Is there a way to aviod it? Default PID values are: DEADBAND = 0.000 P = 1 I = 0 D = 0 FF0 = 1 FF1 = 1 FF2 = 0 BIAS = 0 Start with no FF0 and FF1 This is wrong, you add D to make it more stable not I I is added in small does only when all other tuning is close to remove the last bit of static error and slew errors Ok, thank You, I will try that out in a minute. FF1 will only be close to 1 with the PID/PWM scale set correctly for the situation In INI fie I have: INPUT_SCALE = 3276.8 OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667 OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0 MAX_OUTPUT =166.667 Input scale is encoder pulses per machine unit - pulses per 1 mm in my case. But even Integrator's manual does not help me understand, what to do with the scale value and maxoutput value. BTW what is you sample period? depending on motor poles and RPM required you may need to decrease the sample period from the default 1 ma to maybe 250 uSec (4 KHz) Servo period is default 1ms. Motors have 4 poles, target is 4000 RPM, motors have 2048 CPR (8192 PPR) encoders. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa 5i23 7i39 - possible damage?
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 08:10, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: When output is false: There are 3,46V between 5i23 pin and GND. There are 1,68V between 5i23 pin and +5V. When output is true: There are 0.6V between 5i23 pin and GND. There are 4.65V between 5i23 pin and +5V. I think that should be OK. What the setting you have made does is make the outputs 5V-safe, rather than into 5V outputs. The trick is to use them as sinking outputs. You connect the opto +5V to the +5V rail, and the opto 0V pin to the 5i23. When the pin is high, no current flows. When the pin is low, current flows. Thanks, Peter and Andy! It seems that the output pin is working correctly. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com: I have been playing only with P parameter so far, following this guideline: 1) increase P up to the moment, when motor becomes unstable; 2) add I to make it stable; 3) add D to make the loop stiffer; This is wrong, you add D to make it more stable not I I is added in small does only when all other tuning is close to remove the last bit of static error and slew errors Peter, according to You, there is a mistake in manual. Integrator's manual, page 158, section of PID tuning with simple method: If the system must remain on line, one tuning method is to first set the I and D values to zero. Increase the P until the output of the loop oscillates. Then increase I until oscillation stops. Finally, increase D until the loop is acceptably quick to reach its reference. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/26 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 08:40 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: An off-the-shelf solid state relay might do the job too. The relay was my first idea, but it turned out pretty quickly that there are no such relays that could be driven directly by Mesa card - even those with 5V coils on control side would require too much current for gpio pin to sink - I think that smallest I found was around 100 mA. I just wanted to tell that I resoldered optoisolator and now it is kind of working correctly. Laser is shining. The problem is that it is not burning the wood. Is the voltage drop in the wiring too high? How can I help there - use thicker wire leads? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
Viesturs, it seems to me that your laser diode is just acting as a normal LED, not as a laser. This state is only achieved at a very distinct point up on top of the voltage/current curve. The laser diode supply electronics must take care of this which is a rather delicate controlling task. In other words, the producer of that electronics thing is responsible for keeping the correct working point. Mostly there isn't much to adjust on them. Are you sure you are using the correct supply voltage as specified? If this certain voltage is not reached, the diode will not be brought up to the laser point, if it is too high, the diode could soon release its magic smoke. Peter I just wanted to tell that I resoldered optoisolator and now it is kind of working correctly. Laser is shining. The problem is that it is not burning the wood. Is the voltage drop in the wiring too high? How can I help there - use thicker wire leads? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 10:07:52 AM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/26 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 08:40 +0200, Viesturs Lؤپcis wrote: An off-the-shelf solid state relay might do the job too. The relay was my first idea, but it turned out pretty quickly that there are no such relays that could be driven directly by Mesa card - even those with 5V coils on control side would require too much current for gpio pin to sink - I think that smallest I found was around 100 mA. I just wanted to tell that I resoldered optoisolator and now it is kind of working correctly. Laser is shining. The problem is that it is not burning the wood. Is the voltage drop in the wiring too high? How can I help there - use thicker wire leads? That could be one bit of help, but I would be making measurements to determine where the loss is. The idea being to grease the loudest squeek first. :) Does it burn wood if your circuit is bypassed? How much voltage is the supply making when the laser is on by bypassing your circuit? Measure at the supply, and at the laser to get an idea of the wiring losses. More than a .05 volt difference and I would up the wire gage. If loss in your circuit is the difference in whether it burns wood at a usable feed rate or not, then how much on state voltage loss there is in that output transistor?, which could be anything from 150 to 6 or 700 milli volts. This is one of the reasons I suggested the use of a power hexfet device earlier in this thread, which when forward biased by at least 5 volts, could reduce that particular loss to 10 or 20 milli volts as they have on resistances in the milli-ohm range. It (the hexfet) also switches states 10 to 1000 times faster than a 2n3055 when given adequately low impedance gate drive. When switching at high rates, which you aren't here, the hexfet runs cool, not hot. The gate of a hexfet can look like driving a .1 microfarad capacitor for the really big ones, so lots of drive is needed to prevent as much as possible, the heat surge when it is in the middle of the switching transition. Even small ones can be effectively a .005 u-f capacitor. This means the driver stage will need large, low impedance bypass capacitors right on its power pins, 2 u-f paper/mylar would not be overkill in higher current circuits. Because old faded to too low a voltage computer PSU's are replaced 99% of the time because the capacitors have failed, they can be an excellent source of power hexfet's for a circuit like this. You can have a suitable hexfet in your hand in half an hour, but while extracting it, wrap some bare wire wrapping wire around all 3 pins so that it is shorted and won't be blown by static. Don't remove the shorting wire until it is in your new circuit. You can usually use the numbers stamped on these devices to look them up and download the data sheet pdf, I have been able to at least. A good driver for a hexfet can be cobbled up out of a 4000 family cmos hex invertor by using all 6 gates in the package in parallel, and your 4n2x can drive it direct with a suitable pullup resistor to the 5 volt rail let the 4n2x pull that point to ground when on. That will drive the outputs of the hex invertor high going all the way to the + rail, turning on the hexfet at the same time to 4n2x is on. I would expect that today, there are better devices than the 4000 family cmos to do such a job, but the 4000 families ability to work at supply rail voltages well above their nominal 15 volt rating has been amazing to me. I once used a 4028 hex decoder to add edging signals to a character generator at a tv station in about 1979, bearing in mind they get faster at the higher voltages. It worked well but slightly warm at 28 volts for many years. What I am saying here is that my knowledge of available parts to do a certain job is dated, like me. :) What is the current in amps this laser needs from its nominally 5 volt supply? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Be sure to evaluate the bird-hand/bush ratio. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de: Viesturs, it seems to me that your laser diode is just acting as a normal LED, not as a laser. This state is only achieved at a very distinct point up on top of the voltage/current curve. The laser diode supply electronics must take care of this which is a rather delicate controlling task. In other words, the producer of that electronics thing is responsible for keeping the correct working point. Mostly there isn't much to adjust on them. Are you sure you are using the correct supply voltage as specified? If this certain voltage is not reached, the diode will not be brought up to the laser point, if it is too high, the diode could soon release its magic smoke. Thanks, Peter! Well, it has a separate board with several capacitors, resistors and something with 3 legs, large heatsink and LM317T written on it. It is written that it requires 12VDC and consumes ~1A. I am providing the power from PC's PSU. Gene, thank You for explanation! I really appreciate Your help and detailed information, but all I understood from that - I can extract a hexfet from dead PC PSU. All the remaining stuff, including use of hexfet and driving it - it is beyond my knowledge of electronics. Laser _was_ burning wood, when attached directly (with less than 1 m long, 0,5mm^2 wire) to the driver board. It did not want to burn wood (but at least it was shining), when attached, where it belongs, on top of the Z plate. There is ~5m of very thin wire, going up there. Now I cannot get it to shine even when attached back directly to driver board. That crap is driving me nuts... But I also have untuned servo problem running in parallel to this, so it seems that I am stuck here for at least one more day. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 12:08:34 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 Peter Blodow p.blo...@dreki.de: Viesturs, it seems to me that your laser diode is just acting as a normal LED, not as a laser. This state is only achieved at a very distinct point up on top of the voltage/current curve. The laser diode supply electronics must take care of this which is a rather delicate controlling task. In other words, the producer of that electronics thing is responsible for keeping the correct working point. Mostly there isn't much to adjust on them. Are you sure you are using the correct supply voltage as specified? If this certain voltage is not reached, the diode will not be brought up to the laser point, if it is too high, the diode could soon release its magic smoke. Thanks, Peter! Well, it has a separate board with several capacitors, resistors and something with 3 legs, large heatsink and LM317T written on it. It is written that it requires 12VDC and consumes ~1A. I am providing the power from PC's PSU. Is there perchance an adjustment potentiometer? The LM317T is a linear regulator device and could be made adjustable so as to compensate for the wiring and switching loss in your controller. Gene, thank You for explanation! I really appreciate Your help and detailed information, but all I understood from that - I can extract a hexfet from dead PC PSU. All the remaining stuff, including use of hexfet and driving it - it is beyond my knowledge of electronics. I'm sorry. I try to describe things in understandable terms and obviously I didn't bridge the gap very well. Laser _was_ burning wood, when attached directly (with less than 1 m long, 0,5mm^2 wire) to the driver board. It did not want to burn wood (but at least it was shining), when attached, where it belongs, on top of the Z plate. There is ~5m of very thin wire, going up there. Now I cannot get it to shine even when attached back directly to driver board. That crap is driving me nuts... That very thin wire will probably need replaced with something heavier while maintaining flexibility for long life. Or perhaps the LM317T needs turned up a few hundred millivolts. See the sample schematic shown here: http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html#Overview Perhaps the maker used a fixed resistor in place of R2, the adjustable one? Given parts tolerances it could already be borderline low. Given that 20-100 millisecond response time probably won't be a show stopper, another thought that may be easier for you to fab on site would be to use your controller circuit to switch a relay. That, and heavier wire might be the better method as opposed to turning the supply up .250 additional volts because someone may replace a future broken cable with an even heavier one which would let the magic smoke out of the laser. But I also have untuned servo problem running in parallel to this, so it seems that I am stuck here for at least one more day. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Suburbia is where the developer bulldozes out the trees, then names the streets after them. -- Bill Vaughn -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Fri, 2012-01-27 at 16:55 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/1/26 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com: On Thu, 2012-01-26 at 08:40 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote: An off-the-shelf solid state relay might do the job too. The relay was my first idea, but it turned out pretty quickly that there are no such relays that could be driven directly by Mesa card - even those with 5V coils on control side would require too much current for gpio pin to sink - I think that smallest I found was around 100 mA. Solid state relays generally have an opto-isolator built in, with the same LED input, so only require a few milliamps to turn on. For instance: http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/DC60S3/CC1126-ND/221844 http://www.crydom.com/en/Tech/crydom_us.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_state_relay A couple of things to note, ssr's don't turn OFF all the way, they have a very slight leakage, which mechanical relays don't do since the contacts are separated by air. Also, it is temping to use AC ssr's with a DC load, but this won't work because the AC relays need the AC zero crossing in order to switch OFF. I just wanted to tell that I resoldered optoisolator and now it is kind of working correctly. Laser is shining. The problem is that it is not burning the wood. Is the voltage drop in the wiring too high? How can I help there - use thicker wire leads? Viesturs Measure the voltage at the laser with a meter across the GND and dc 9 - 12 volt terminals. If it dips below 9 Volts you most likely need to find a way to bring the voltage up. It apears the laser needs only 1.3 Amps so any decently sized wire should work fine. Check to make sure the TTL terminal comes up to TTL voltage level, maybe between 3 and 5 Volts. I believe LinuxCNC should feed this pin with a 20kHz PWM or PDM signal to control the laser's output strength. Also check to make sure the laser can focus on the target. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: Is there perchance an adjustment potentiometer? The LM317T is a linear regulator device and could be made adjustable so as to compensate for the wiring and switching loss in your controller. Nope, I see 2 resistors in series for the middle leg. I'm sorry. I try to describe things in understandable terms and obviously I didn't bridge the gap very well. I think that You did pretty well, it is just thatI do not get that pretty well :) That very thin wire will probably need replaced with something heavier while maintaining flexibility for long life. Or perhaps the LM317T needs turned up a few hundred millivolts. See the sample schematic shown here: http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html#Overview Perhaps the maker used a fixed resistor in place of R2, the adjustable one? Given parts tolerances it could already be borderline low. Given that 20-100 millisecond response time probably won't be a show stopper, another thought that may be easier for you to fab on site would be to use your controller circuit to switch a relay. That, and heavier wire might be the better method as opposed to turning the supply up .250 additional volts because someone may replace a future broken cable with an even heavier one which would let the magic smoke out of the laser. I looked carefully and it looks to me that there are 2 resistors in series, where is R1 in that scheme and that connection to GND through R2 - I do not see that. Ok, I think I have to explain one thing that was missed and seems to be misunderstood: I do not want to detach laser board from the laser itself - they are connected with ~40cm of wire and I would like to keep it that way. That thin wire is between my diy driver and the laser board. So I will try to figure out, how to replace the wire. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2a1771bee9#ht_2189wt_1080 Short URL: http://alturl.com/9t7fg Peak Wavelength : 808 nm Color: Infrared Visibility : INVISIBLE Diode Beam divergence: 12/100 deg. Emitting area: 50 x 2 µm Module Output Power : 800 mW Diode Output Power : 1000 mW Modulation : TTL Max. Modulation Frequency: 20 KHz Focus Range : 1 inch to 5 inches Warm Up Time : 1 Minute Power Stability : %5, 20 minutes Spectral Line width : 10 nm Operating Current: 1300 mA Operating Voltage: 9-12 Vdc Laser Diode Cooling Mode : Aluminum Heat Sink Driver Cooling Mode : Aluminum Heat Sink Expected Lifetime: 5000 hours Power Supply Required: 9-12 volts DC 1.3 Amp Applications : CNC Cutting, Material Processing, http://www.listingfactoryhost.com/users/kerimkale/eBayAuctions/346554dgf/images/DSCN6716_360697722_thumb.jpg Short URL: http://alturl.com/fynsz http://www.listingfactoryhost.com/users/kerimkale/eBayAuctions/346554dgf/images/DSCN6705_865650630_thumb.jpg Short URL: http://alturl.com/j4aof I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Laser-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 Almost... Manufacturer the same, laser diode looks the same, but is rated for 700 mW, the electronics board is different. That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. I would be happy to do it this way. Unfortunately there are only 2 input terminals, labeled + and - Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:36:21 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: Is there perchance an adjustment potentiometer? The LM317T is a linear regulator device and could be made adjustable so as to compensate for the wiring and switching loss in your controller. Nope, I see 2 resistors in series for the middle leg. I'm sorry. I try to describe things in understandable terms and obviously I didn't bridge the gap very well. I think that You did pretty well, it is just thatI do not get that pretty well :) That very thin wire will probably need replaced with something heavier while maintaining flexibility for long life. Or perhaps the LM317T needs turned up a few hundred millivolts. See the sample schematic shown here: http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html#Overview Perhaps the maker used a fixed resistor in place of R2, the adjustable one? Given parts tolerances it could already be borderline low. Given that 20-100 millisecond response time probably won't be a show stopper, another thought that may be easier for you to fab on site would be to use your controller circuit to switch a relay. That, and heavier wire might be the better method as opposed to turning the supply up .250 additional volts because someone may replace a future broken cable with an even heavier one which would let the magic smoke out of the laser. I looked carefully and it looks to me that there are 2 resistors in series, where is R1 in that scheme and that connection to GND through R2 - I do not see that. Could be hidden by a via thru the board I suppose. But see below. Ok, I think I have to explain one thing that was missed and seems to be misunderstood: I do not want to detach laser board from the laser itself - they are connected with ~40cm of wire and I would like to keep it that way. My mistake, I was under the impression the psu was a separate item that could have been frame mounted several meters away. That thin wire is between my diy driver and the laser board. So I will try to figure out, how to replace the wire. That depends. Can, if you just short your device, burn wood? If not, or only very much slower than you expected, then the wire is too small. However, this gives me another better idea, that of putting your DIY switching device right at the laser, essentially doing away with the wiring losses, and use the existing small wire going to it for the logic signal to control it. That seems like the most serviceable solution to me, quit trying to send the amps up and down a small wire, just send the controlling signal. I am assuming that the relatively small currents your DIY needs can be supplied by the lasers own supply, removing the need to also send your DIY a pair of power leads of its own. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene We have only two things to worry about: That things will never get back to normal, and that they already have. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:50:53 PM Kirk Wallace did opine: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Laser- Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item2 a1771bee9#ht_2189wt_1080 Short URL: http://alturl.com/9t7fg Peak Wavelength : 808 nm Color: Infrared Visibility : INVISIBLE Diode Beam divergence: 12/100 deg. Emitting area: 50 x 2 آµm Module Output Power : 800 mW Diode Output Power : 1000 mW Modulation : TTL Max. Modulation Frequency: 20 KHz Focus Range : 1 inch to 5 inches Warm Up Time : 1 Minute Power Stability : %5, 20 minutes Spectral Line width : 10 nm Operating Current: 1300 mA Operating Voltage: 9-12 Vdc Laser Diode Cooling Mode : Aluminum Heat Sink Driver Cooling Mode : Aluminum Heat Sink Expected Lifetime: 5000 hours Power Supply Required: 9-12 volts DC 1.3 Amp Applications : CNC Cutting, Material Processing, http://www.listingfactoryhost.com/users/kerimkale/eBayAuctions/346554dgf /images/DSCN6716_360697722_thumb.jpg Short URL: http://alturl.com/fynsz http://www.listingfactoryhost.com/users/kerimkale/eBayAuctions/346554dgf /images/DSCN6705_865650630_thumb.jpg Short URL: http://alturl.com/j4aof I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. And I suspect you are spot on, and that we have managed to make a larger problem out of it than it is. Viesters? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:52:19 PM andy pugh did opine: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Lase r-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. With perhaps a piece of coax for the shielding? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:53:39 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Las er-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 Almost... Manufacturer the same, laser diode looks the same, but is rated for 700 mW, the electronics board is different. That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. I would be happy to do it this way. Unfortunately there are only 2 input terminals, labeled + and - Viesturs Link to the device? Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: That depends. Can, if you just short your device, burn wood? If not, or only very much slower than you expected, then the wire is too small. I could. Now it seems that my diy stopped working again - laser receives ~3V DC regardless of the state of gpio output pin. I give up trying to get it working. However, this gives me another better idea, that of putting your DIY switching device right at the laser, essentially doing away with the wiring losses, and use the existing small wire going to it for the logic signal to control it. That seems like the most serviceable solution to me, quit trying to send the amps up and down a small wire, just send the controlling signal. I am assuming that the relatively small currents your DIY needs can be supplied by the lasers own supply, removing the need to also send your DIY a pair of power leads of its own. Thanks, sounds like a pretty good idea. Its only downside - I cannot implement it on the spot at client's site, because I have to redo my diy - it is on the same piece of pcb with 7 input optoisolators for home, limits and e-stop. 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:50:53 PM Kirk Wallace did opine: I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. And I suspect you are spot on, and that we have managed to make a larger problem out of it than it is. As I wrote - there are only 2 connection terminals for laser board, labeled + and - Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:53:39 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable-Las er-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 Almost... Manufacturer the same, laser diode looks the same, but is rated for 700 mW, the electronics board is different. That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. I would be happy to do it this way. Unfortunately there are only 2 input terminals, labeled + and - Viesturs Link to the device? Sorry, I do not understand, what do You mean. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 02:29:30 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: That depends. Can, if you just short your device, burn wood? If not, or only very much slower than you expected, then the wire is too small. I could. Now it seems that my diy stopped working again - laser receives ~3V DC regardless of the state of gpio output pin. I give up trying to get it working. However, this gives me another better idea, that of putting your DIY switching device right at the laser, essentially doing away with the wiring losses, and use the existing small wire going to it for the logic signal to control it. That seems like the most serviceable solution to me, quit trying to send the amps up and down a small wire, just send the controlling signal. I am assuming that the relatively small currents your DIY needs can be supplied by the lasers own supply, removing the need to also send your DIY a pair of power leads of its own. Thanks, sounds like a pretty good idea. Its only downside - I cannot implement it on the spot at client's site, because I have to redo my diy - it is on the same piece of pcb with 7 input optoisolators for home, limits and e-stop. Ouch, but that could probably be tossed together in a couple of hours on a perf board about 2 square from the shack, hopefully where you are there is a similar hobby store with that stuff? 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:50:53 PM Kirk Wallace did opine: I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. And I suspect you are spot on, and that we have managed to make a larger problem out of it than it is. As I wrote - there are only 2 connection terminals for laser board, labeled + and - Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration. -- Thomas Alva Edison -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Friday, January 27, 2012 02:31:36 PM Viesturs Lācis did opine: 2012/1/27 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:53:39 PM Viesturs Lؤپcis did opine: 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 18:12, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: For those following this thread, just a reminder of what I think Viesturs has. eBay laser with controller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Industrial-808nm-800mw-Infrared-Focusable- Las er-Diode-Module-Cutter-w-TTL-/180781956841 Almost... Manufacturer the same, laser diode looks the same, but is rated for 700 mW, the electronics board is different. That sounds like it needs 12V and a TTL enable signal direct from the port. I suspect that there is no need for the output driver. I would expect to be connecting 12V direct between GND and 12V and hooking the 5i23 up to the TTL. I would be happy to do it this way. Unfortunately there are only 2 input terminals, labeled + and - Viesturs Link to the device? Sorry, I do not understand, what do You mean. URL to the makers web site and a brochure? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Well thaaat's okay. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Hello again! I tried searching my mailbox with more than 2 years of this mailing list in it for some servo tuning for noobs (actual keywords used were servo tuning), but found only 1 viable thread, which contained this link; http://www.newport.com/servicesupport/Tutorials/default.aspx?id=152 My problem is: I can tune servo motor to move smoothly up to ~3600 mm/min, which is ~1500 RPM for motor. In higher speeds at one moment motor stalls and oscillates. Where can I read, how to proceed to reach higher velocities? I have been playing with P and D parameters, but do not see any improvement. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:49:18 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? Hello again! I tried searching my mailbox with more than 2 years of this mailing list in it for some servo tuning for noobs (actual keywords used were servo tuning), but found only 1 viable thread, which contained this link; http://www.newport.com/servicesupport/Tutorials/default.aspx?id=152 My problem is: I can tune servo motor to move smoothly up to ~3600 mm/min, which is ~1500 RPM for motor. In higher speeds at one moment motor stalls and oscillates. Where can I read, how to proceed to reach higher velocities? I have been playing with P and D parameters, but do not see any improvement. Viesturs Whats is your servo thread period, and how many poles does the motor have? Servo period is default 1ms. Motors have 4 poles, motors have 2048 CPR (8192 PPR) encoders. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:58:27 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? 2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:49:18 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? Hello again! I tried searching my mailbox with more than 2 years of this mailing list in it for some servo tuning for noobs (actual keywords used were servo tuning), but found only 1 viable thread, which contained this link; http://www.newport.com/servicesupport/Tutorials/default.aspx?id=152 My problem is: I can tune servo motor to move smoothly up to ~3600 mm/min, which is ~1500 RPM for motor. In higher speeds at one moment motor stalls and oscillates. Where can I read, how to proceed to reach higher velocities? I have been playing with P and D parameters, but do not see any improvement. Viesturs Whats is your servo thread period, and how many poles does the motor have? Servo period is default 1ms. Motors have 4 poles, motors have 2048 CPR (8192 PPR) encoders. Viesturs What BLDC mode are you using? When it fails and oscillates does the motor behave normally when stopped (equal torque both directions)? If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked Do you have the encoder filter on? -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On 27 January 2012 19:54, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: What BLDC mode are you using? ... If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked Try mode h and comment-out the rawcounts lines, that ought to make it stick in Hal-sensor mode, and then it can't lose synch. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:58:27 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? 2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:49:18 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? Hello again! I tried searching my mailbox with more than 2 years of this mailing list in it for some servo tuning for noobs (actual keywords used were servo tuning), but found only 1 viable thread, which contained this link; http://www.newport.com/servicesupport/Tutorials/default.aspx?id=152 My problem is: I can tune servo motor to move smoothly up to ~3600 mm/min, which is ~1500 RPM for motor. In higher speeds at one moment motor stalls and oscillates. Where can I read, how to proceed to reach higher velocities? I have been playing with P and D parameters, but do not see any improvement. Viesturs Whats is your servo thread period, and how many poles does the motor have? Servo period is default 1ms. Motors have 4 poles, motors have 2048 CPR (8192 PPR) encoders. Viesturs What BLDC mode are you using? What do You mean - what mode? Config for bldc component is qh When it fails and oscillates does the motor behave normally when stopped (equal torque both directions)? Yes, I hit F2 to stop it (sometimes it stops for itself within a second or two) after I release jogging button and then after enabling motion with F2 motor stands still and I can jog again Do you have the encoder filter on? I guess that no, I do not have encoder filter, since I do not know, what is that. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 19:54, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: What BLDC mode are you using? ... If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked Try mode h and comment-out the rawcounts lines, that ought to make it stick in Hal-sensor mode, and then it can't lose synch. Hmm, I used h mode, when I tried to set up bldc component to move motors properly. How is that going to help me? Motors move smoothly up to ~1500RPM, but my ideal target is 4000RPM. minimum target is 3000RPM, so I would like to find out, if there is a place to read about the strategy, how to tune servos from this point. I tried increasing/decreasing P and D parameters, but do not see improvement. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On 27 January 2012 20:18, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I hit F2 to stop it (sometimes it stops for itself within a second or two) after I release jogging button and then after enabling motion with F2 motor stands still and I can jog again That's a good sign then. At that speed with a 2-pole motor a 1ms servo period ought to be OK, but you should try 500uS to see if that helps. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On 27 January 2012 20:22, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm, I used h mode, when I tried to set up bldc component to move motors properly. How is that going to help me? Don't worry about it. If you can still jog when it settles down then it's not losing synch. Is FF0 set to zero now? What's the PID output maxing out at? -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] [OT] Re: Servo tuning - wtf?
On 1/27/2012 2:54 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:58:27 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? 2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 21:49:18 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? Hello again! I tried searching my mailbox with more than 2 years of this mailing list in it for some servo tuning for noobs (actual keywords used were servo tuning), but found only 1 viable thread, which contained this link; http://www.newport.com/servicesupport/Tutorials/default.aspx?id=152 My problem is: I can tune servo motor to move smoothly up to ~3600 mm/min, which is ~1500 RPM for motor. In higher speeds at one moment motor stalls and oscillates. Where can I read, how to proceed to reach higher velocities? I have been playing with P and D parameters, but do not see any improvement. Viesturs Whats is your servo thread period, and how many poles does the motor have? Servo period is default 1ms. Motors have 4 poles, motors have 2048 CPR (8192 PPR) encoders. Viesturs What BLDC mode are you using? When it fails and oscillates does the motor behave normally when stopped (equal torque both directions)? If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked Do you have the encoder filter on? Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics Peter: I think your system clock is off. Your replies to Viesturs' messages are arriving here with time stamps roughly 4 minutes before the time stamps on the messages you are replying to. A quick look at the message headers suggests the problem is at your end and not his (but I've been wrong before). In the grand scheme of things this doesn't much matter but since my mail agents sorts incoming mail on the time stamp, I read your response before I see the question. It was a bit disconcerting the first time. On the other hand, if it's a real effect, you've found a way to communicate faster than the speed of light and with an effect way bigger than the billionths of a second that the folks at CERN and Gran Sasso Laboratory were reporting. I smell a Nobel Prize in the offing. Regards, Kent -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:22:33 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 19:54, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: What BLDC mode are you using? ... If not you may somehow have lost encoder counts, this should be checked Try mode h and comment-out the rawcounts lines, that ought to make it stick in Hal-sensor mode, and then it can't lose synch. Hmm, I used h mode, when I tried to set up bldc component to move motors properly. How is that going to help me? Motors move smoothly up to ~1500RPM, but my ideal target is 4000RPM. minimum target is 3000RPM, so I would like to find out, if there is a place to read about the strategy, how to tune servos from this point. I tried increasing/decreasing P and D parameters, but do not see improvement. Viesturs This is not likely a tuning problem... More likely that you have either run out of headroom (what is the motor voltage vs supply voltage?) or you have a commutation problem. Commutation problems will happen if you have encoder count errors in q, qi, or qh mode Of course if you have encoder count problems these need to be fixed whatever commutation mode you use, but using h mode will eliminate encoder count problems as a suspect in you oscillation troubles. Another detail that can cause strange behavior if you are close to the maximum RPM because of voltage limits, is the maximum PWM duty cycle. This should be limited via the PID components max_output parameter to about 95% of the PWM components full scale value. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 20:18, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, I hit F2 to stop it (sometimes it stops for itself within a second or two) after I release jogging button and then after enabling motion with F2 motor stands still and I can jog again That's a good sign then. At that speed with a 2-pole motor a 1ms servo period ought to be OK, but you should try 500uS to see if that helps. Ok, I will try that first thing in the morning, I am in the dormitory already to spend the night. So are you telling that Emc is reaching the limit of motor's velocity, affected by number of poles and length of servo period? What else affects that? 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 20:22, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm, I used h mode, when I tried to set up bldc component to move motors properly. How is that going to help me? Don't worry about it. If you can still jog when it settles down then it's not losing synch. Ok, good to hear (read). Is FF0 set to zero now? Last settings I tried: Deadband = 0,002 P = 6 I = 0 D = 2,2 FF0 = 0 FF1 = 0 FF2 = 0 BIAS = 0 What's the PID output maxing out at? OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667 OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0 MAX_OUTPUT =166.667 Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On 27 January 2012 20:37, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: What's the PID output maxing out at? OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667 OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0 MAX_OUTPUT = 166.667 I don't know what these numbers mean. But if the PWM is hitting 95% and the motor isn't going any faster then it might be a voltage or current problem. If you go over 95% then the drive will start to not work properly. It uses the PWM oscillation to create a gate voltage, and 100% isn't a PWM, it's a steady voltage. -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com: This is not likely a tuning problem... Sounds encouraging :) More likely that you have either run out of headroom (what is the motor voltage vs supply voltage?) or you have a commutation problem. Commutation problems will happen if you have encoder count errors in q, qi, or qh mode Of course if you have encoder count problems these need to be fixed whatever commutation mode you use, but using h mode will eliminate encoder count problems as a suspect in you oscillation troubles. Another detail that can cause strange behavior if you are close to the maximum RPM because of voltage limits, is the maximum PWM duty cycle. This should be limited via the PID components max_output parameter to about 95% of the PWM components full scale value. Damn, thanks for reminding about the voltages! I have ~28 VDC supplied to 7i39s - that would account for supply voltage. Motors are rated for 36 VDC. Since motors are rated at 4000 RPM, I cannot reach them by default. But I still should hit 75% of that, which is 3000 RPM, because I have supplied 75% of the rated voltage, right? But now I have reached only half of that. Ok, is there a place I can read more about the max_output? I do not fully understand, what should I do with output_ scale and max_output parameters in INI file. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 20:37, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: What's the PID output maxing out at? OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667 OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0 MAX_OUTPUT = 166.667 I don't know what these numbers mean. But if the PWM is hitting 95% and the motor isn't going any faster then it might be a voltage or current problem. Any place for reading to find that out? Manual has a little information only about output_scale. If you go over 95% How can I check that? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On 27 January 2012 20:45, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, is there a place I can read more about the max_output? I do not fully understand, what should I do with output_ scale and max_output parameters in INI file. What happens if you disconnect the PID (and the motors from the machine!) and setp bldc.0.value 0.95 ? -- atp The idea that there is no such thing as objective truth is, quite simply, wrong. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 20:45, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Ok, is there a place I can read more about the max_output? I do not fully understand, what should I do with output_ scale and max_output parameters in INI file. What happens if you disconnect the PID (and the motors from the machine!) and setp bldc.0.value 0.95 ? I will be able to check that after ~10 hours, in the morning. Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:49:38 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 20:37, Viesturs L??cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: What's the PID output maxing out at? OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667 OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0 MAX_OUTPUT =166.667 So if you set the PID comps MAX_OUTPUT to 158 (and PWM scale is 166.67) that will limit maximum PWM to the desired 95% I don't know what these numbers mean. But if the PWM is hitting 95% and the motor isn't going any faster then it might be a voltage or current problem. Any place for reading to find that out? Manual has a little information only about output_scale. If you go over 95% How can I check that? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
2012/1/27 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com: On Fri, 27 Jan 2012, Viesturs L?cis wrote: Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2012 22:49:38 +0200 From: [UTF-8] Viesturs L?cis viesturs.la...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf? 2012/1/27 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 27 January 2012 20:37, Viesturs Lяяcis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: What's the PID output maxing out at? OUTPUT_SCALE = 166.667 OUTPUT_OFFSET = 0.0 MAX_OUTPUT = 166.667 So if you set the PID comps MAX_OUTPUT to 158 (and PWM scale is 166.67) that will limit maximum PWM to the desired 95% Ok, I will try that. BTW, can anyone explain, how to derive proper values for those 2 parameters? What I have there is max desired velocity in machine units per second. I do not remember, where did I get the information to do it that way, so I would like to find out, if that is correct? Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] MESA questions
2012/1/25 Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com Both would need a new firmware files (SVST12_12_7I52S, SVST12_12_7I47) We intend to use 7i23+7i47x2. Where can we find SVST12_12_7I47 firmware and pinout? Thanks! Andrew -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Viesturs Lācis wrote: In my previous attempts I had: DEADBAND = 0.0005 P = 90 I = 40 D = 1,65 FF0 = 0 FF1 = 1,5 FF2 = 0 BIAS = 0,0005 FF0 should always be zero on a motion axis. It creates an offset that varies with position. FF1 should always be much less than P. FF2 seems like it should always be much less than FF1. Too much D may cause instability. Jon -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On Fri, 2012-01-27 at 12:26 -0500, gene heskett wrote: The LM317T is a linear regulator device and could be made adjustable so as to compensate for the wiring and switching loss in your controller. Judging from Viesturs' description in a later message: Nope, I see 2 resistors in series for the middle leg. The LM317 is probably wired up as a current controller, not a voltage controller: it's providing a fixed *current* to the laser diode, not regulating the voltage across the wires. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LM317_1A_ConstCurrent.svg In that mode, the voltage drop from controller to laser doesn't make much difference, at least within reasonable limits. What *does* matter is the voltage supplied to the controller (which sets the compliance it needs to regulate the laser current) and the current available from the raw +12 V supply (which must be greater than the laser current). Tweaking the resistors or substituting a voltage source for the laser controller will let the magic smoke out of the laser! The BD139 has a 1.5 A current rating, with a fairly low hFE = 40. That says it must have 1.0 / 40 = 25 mA of base current to saturate while carrying 1 A. More base current will be better. The 4N25 has a current transfer ratio of 20%, which means the LED current must be 25 / 0.20 = 125 mA. Anything less than that won't provide enough base drive, so the transistor won't saturate, so the laser controller won't get enough power, and the transistor will eventually overheat and die. However, you can't jam that much current through the 4N25's LED. At the risk of sounding like an Olde Farte, the easiest way to get this contraption working is a small mechanical relay: a few tens of mA in will switch an amp of DC on the output. No voltage drops, no muss, no fuss. The optoisolator won't have enough current capacity for the relay, so you will probably need the driver transistor to power the *relay* from the digital output. But there's no need for the optoisolator in that case. Or, of course, I could be completely wrong... -- Ed http://softsolder.com -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
Peter C. Wallace wrote: This is wrong, you add D to make it more stable not I This thing about add I to increase stability is in several places in the docs and Wiki, and I was wondering about this. I agree with you that it is D that increases stability (up to a point). If this is truly a typo, we need to get it corrected. Jon -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo tuning - wtf?
On 1/27/2012 9:18 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Peter C. Wallace wrote: This is wrong, you add D to make it more stable not I This thing about add I to increase stability is in several places in the docs and Wiki, Jon: I don't remember reading this when I was reviewing the V2.5 docs. As a counterexample, looking at the HTML files under http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs, in section 1.2.4 Derivative Term of Important Integrator Concepts in the V2.4 docs (which becomes section 2.4 of Integrator Concepts in V2.5 docs), it says The derivative term slows the rate of change of the controller output and this effect is most noticeable close to the controller set point. Hence, derivative control is used to reduce the magnitude of the overshoot produced by the integral component and improve the combined controller-process stability. In section 1.1.3 [Loop Tuning] Simple method of PID Theory in V2.4 (mutatis mutandi for V2.5) it says If the system must remain on line, one tuning method is to first set the I and D values to zero. Increase the P until the output of the loop oscillates. Then increase I until oscillation stops. Finally, increase D until the loop is acceptably quick to reach its reference. I don't interpret this simple method to mean add I to increase stability but perhaps that just shows I don't know PID theory and practice. and I was wondering about this. I agree with you that it is D that increases stability (up to a point). If this is truly a typo, we need to get it corrected. If you could identify the problem sections I'd be happy to help reconcile them. Jon Regards, Kent -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
On 01/27/2012 11:07 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/1/27 gene heskettghesk...@wdtv.com: That depends. Can, if you just short your device, burn wood? If not, or only very much slower than you expected, then the wire is too small. I could. Now it seems that my diy stopped working again - laser receives ~3V DC regardless of the state of gpio output pin. I give up trying to get it working. However, this gives me another better idea, that of putting your DIY switching device right at the laser, essentially doing away with the wiring losses, and use the existing small wire going to it for the logic signal to control it. That seems like the most serviceable solution to me, quit trying to send the amps up and down a small wire, just send the controlling signal. I am assuming that the relatively small currents your DIY needs can be supplied by the lasers own supply, removing the need to also send your DIY a pair of power leads of its own. Thanks, sounds like a pretty good idea. Its only downside - I cannot implement it on the spot at client's site, because I have to redo my diy - it is on the same piece of pcb with 7 input optoisolators for home, limits and e-stop. 2012/1/27 gene heskettghesk...@wdtv.com: On Friday, January 27, 2012 01:50:53 PM Kirk Wallace did opine: I suspect the power to the laser driver just needs to be switched as an Enable, with the driver's TTL input modulated by PWM/PDM to turn the bean on and control the strength. I have zero experience with lasers, so grains of salt are recommended. And I suspect you are spot on, and that we have managed to make a larger problem out of it than it is. As I wrote - there are only 2 connection terminals for laser board, labeled + and - Viesturs Of course that won't work with most if not all the suggestions I've seen so far. If I understand it correctly, your laser already has a circuit to drive it at reasonable current to do it's magic. Circuit I suggested earlier was under assumption you have a bare laser diode connected to it. You cannot daisy chain circuits one after another and expect laser to work properly. Relays are out of question IMO because they are too slow mechanical devices with many other drawbacks for this application. I see no reason to bring in solid state relays into the picture either. You are not driving high voltage stuff. You either need to modify your PCB that came with the laser diode or build a new circuit. Maybe you can reverse engineer that PCB and use one spot to inject signal from the EMC side. This link would be a good starting point to get an idea what you are dealing with: http://www.rog8811.com/laserdriver.htm Suggested circuit uses same IC regulator LM317 as you mention having in currently included PCB I believe. Links that might help: http://laserboy.org/ http://repairfaq.cis.upenn.edu/sam/laserssl.htm#ssltoc You are practically dealing with the same issue as power LEDs except that laser diode provides coherent light: http://www.instructables.com/id/Power-LED-s---simplest-light-with-constant-current/ -- Rafael -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] DIY output driver
2012/1/28 Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com: Of course that won't work with most if not all the suggestions I've seen so far. If I understand it correctly, your laser already has a circuit to drive it at reasonable current to do it's magic. Circuit I suggested earlier was under assumption you have a bare laser diode connected to it. You cannot daisy chain circuits one after another and expect laser to work properly. Relays are out of question IMO because they are too slow mechanical devices with many other drawbacks for this application. I see no reason to bring in solid state relays into the picture either. You are not driving high voltage stuff. You either need to modify your PCB that came with the laser diode or build a new circuit. Maybe you can reverse engineer that PCB and use one spot to inject signal from the EMC side. Ed, Kirk, Rafael, thank You! Given my lack of skills in electronics, I think that interfering and modifying the pcb that comes with laser is the last thing I want to do. Here are some pics of the laser and its pcb I took late in last night with my phone (it was late enough that I forgot to upload them yesterday evening): http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.54.59-QzJqS24n.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.55.16-mx4U2GiU.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.55.36-wtANcKHw.jpg http://picpaste.com/2012-01-27_21.56.28-ySpITI8d.jpg I think that I will try the use a relay approach, because: 1) it is simple enough for me to do it; 2) it does not require modifying existing laser's board; 3) it will be fast enough for me, because I am going to use the laser in a a la milling fashion - move laser along the line to be burned instead of moving it back and forth and switching it on, when necessary, because: a) the laser is weak, so by definition it can't burn quickly; b) machine is heavy and relatively slow, compared to normal laser engravers, so it would not be able to handle very powerful laser anyway; c) g-code generation - I have no idea, how to generate g-code for normal laser engraving, but I know, how to do it for a la milling style. BTW client was happy, when he saw the first hand-burned lines in the wood that I managed to do last night in that small moment, when the laser was working... Viesturs -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
