Re: [Emc-users] jerk discussion
On Tuesday 17 December 2013 06:17:55 Gregg Eshelman did opine: On 12/16/2013 12:05 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: Greetings all; clip Shorter, even only a 4 tap setup could be of help and might be worth exploring just for SG, concept checking to see if I know what I'm going on about. ;-) It might even be worth doing a digital sine squared search on google for ideas. Cheers, Gene I wonder if this is anything like that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SozZ7af3wg No, no resemblance to my idea, and TBT that driver would be dangerous unless its feedback does go into LCNC so LCNC knows it is not where LCNC told it to be. Cute demo yes but could you trust 9 of them to stay within a thou of the programmed path? Scary. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene The amount of weight an evangelist carries with the almighty is measured in billigrahams. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] jerk discussion
On 12/17/2013 12:23 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: I wonder if this is anything like that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SozZ7af3wg No, no resemblance to my idea, and TBT that driver would be dangerous unless its feedback does go into LCNC so LCNC knows it is not where LCNC told it to be. Cute demo yes but could you trust 9 of them to stay within a thou of the programmed path? Scary. But that is the point; if you do not have feedback, then you will never be able to ensure that you are anywhere on the programmed path. No matter what driver you use. If one axis is slowed down externally, then all others need to be adjusted too. The real problem is, if the slowing force is reduced, who is controlling the axis' (re-)acceleration? If the HW driver is (partly) autonomous, then your controlling SW will always lag behind and create a larger path deviation than if the SW has full control. I.e. reactionary vs. actionary control. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Number of available variables
Hi, Is there a reason, other than the RS274 standard, why there are only 5000 numbered variables available? I am trying to create a compiling backend to gcmc and the maximum complexity of the program will depend on the available storage. The gcode interpreter has enough Turing completeness to calculate anything, but the available memory size is a limiting factor. Wouldn't it be trivial to support numbered variables to any number N? -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Number of available variables
On 17 December 2013 14:09, Bertho Stultiens ber...@vagrearg.org wrote: I am trying to create a compiling backend to gcmc and the maximum complexity of the program will depend on the available storage. You could use named variables instead. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Number of available variables
On 12/17/2013 03:33 PM, andy pugh wrote: I am trying to create a compiling backend to gcmc and the maximum complexity of the program will depend on the available storage. You could use named variables instead. Not for indirect addressing. A lot of the memory needs to be addressed using #[var] or #[#123] constructs and the target is always a numerical variable. Unless you know of a way to store strings in variables and dereference them. -- Greetings Bertho (disclaimers are disclaimed) -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] jerk discussion
On Tuesday 17 December 2013 07:26:20 Bertho Stultiens did opine: On 12/17/2013 12:23 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: I wonder if this is anything like that? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SozZ7af3wg No, no resemblance to my idea, and TBT that driver would be dangerous unless its feedback does go into LCNC so LCNC knows it is not where LCNC told it to be. Cute demo yes but could you trust 9 of them to stay within a thou of the programmed path? Scary. But that is the point; if you do not have feedback, then you will never be able to ensure that you are anywhere on the programmed path. No matter what driver you use. If one axis is slowed down externally, then all others need to be adjusted too. The real problem is, if the slowing force is reduced, who is controlling the axis' (re-)acceleration? If the HW driver is (partly) autonomous, then your controlling SW will always lag behind and create a larger path deviation than if the SW has full control. I.e. reactionary vs. actionary control. Absolutely, that driver, even though its driving steppers MUST be treated like a servo, where if it hasn't the hangy downs to get there, the rest of the machine is slowed to match and the path tolerance maintained. Then the question turns into a which costs more question. And the fact that few if any of them are being used, at least on this list worldview, pretty well answers that. If there were a distinct price advantage over servo's, you can bet your sweet we'd have been discussing and using them already. I've a limited info path, these two lists and haven't heard of them till now. Jon's foray into using encoders on steppers for feedback quite some time ago seems to have well defined the problems. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene Nothing happens. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code
Here is a crappy video showing the difference (first run is current TP - second run is Roberts hard work) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUajH5BCOUQfeature=youtu.be spiral is made up of short line segments. The current tp has to be able to stop by the end of the next segment so it peaks at about 110ipm. The new TP can look 40 segments ahead. (that will be a configurable in the future..) and peaks at about 410ipm. Current status as I understand it. Read ahead works if segment transitions are -Line-Line -Tangent line-arc, arc-line -Tangent arc-arc Darn impressive. Great work Robert! sam On 12/16/2013 12:43 PM, Kent A. Reed wrote: On 12/16/2013 01:02 PM, John Alexander Stewart wrote: It's been a while since I wrote SLERPing code, but the project I wrote it for used Quaternions, which I don't think LinuxCNC uses?? Quaternions certainly made a lot of the internal maths easier. (code was in the FreeWRL VRML/X3D browser) *Does* LinuxCNC use Quaternions? Well, that depends on your meaning of the word use. If you look at the libnml/posemath/ routines you'll see a lot of internal usage of quarternions for the reason you name but most calls to the routines from the rest of LinuxCNC consist of customary and usual representations. What representations? Well, consider this snippet from posemath.h - /* translation types */ struct PM_CARTESIAN;/* Cart */ struct PM_SPHERICAL;/* Sph */ struct PM_CYLINDRICAL;/* Cyl */ /* rotation types */ struct PM_ROTATION_VECTOR;/* Rot */ struct PM_ROTATION_MATRIX;/* Mat */ struct PM_QUATERNION;/* Quat */ struct PM_EULER_ZYZ;/* Zyz */ struct PM_EULER_ZYX;/* Zyx */ struct PM_RPY;/* Rpy */ /* pose types */ struct PM_POSE;/* Pose */ struct PM_HOMOGENEOUS;/* Hom */ - You can browse the source code itself but it's faster to read the nearly 15-year old document http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/posemath_examples.html Regards, Kent -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Limiting Jerk
On 12/16/2013 11:27 AM, Robert Ellenberg wrote: That's an interesting use of the term jerk, certainly. The circular-arc blend method limits cornering acceleration as well, so you don't need a separate spec for that. If they're using a trapezoidal velocity profile, there will still be large kinematic jerks, though. Whether you need jerk-limiting will probably depend on how stiff your machine is relative to the max acceleration, and how much damping your structure and joints provide. It would certainly be useful feedback for me if you tried out the circular arc branch (linked below if you're curious). https://github.com/robEllenberg/linuxcnc-mirror/tree/circular-blend-arc-alpha One issue I can see with running a 3D printer is that A-axis moves have to fall back to stock blends (i.e. parabolic). It's something I'd like to address in a future release, though there's more work to be done on that front. I'd be willing to test your branch, but pretty much every single move is going to include X+Y+A. There are some positioning moves that just involve X/Y or Z, but all the 'interesting' moves include A. You do blend over three axis (XYZ), right? Is there an easy way to blend over XYA and leave Z as the odd-man out? If not, I'm not sure testing would really be that interesting, other than to prove the code properly falls back to the stock blending. -- Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
Hello all; 2014 sees me finishing up my lathe conversion to CNC. (Emco Compact-8). I'm a bit confused about spindle sensors, and I do see a few different designs. Question - if you had to do it again, what would YOU do for a modern spindle encoder? (trying to learn from those who have gone before me, wish me luck!) PS - I'm tempted to just go for the CNC4PC Index Pulse Card, but maybe there are better alternatives out there. Thanks; John A. Stewart. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On 17 December 2013 23:32, John Alexander Stewart ivatt...@gmail.comwrote: Question - if you had to do it again, what would YOU do for a modern spindle encoder? I am on the 3rd iteration of spindle encoder on my lathe, so feel well qualified opinionate. iteration 1 was a laser-printed target wrapped round the spindle shaft and viewed by reflective optos. It worked, but not all that well. iteration 2 was a custom made aluminium target and the same reflective optos: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_hlZumHKbsbV7YoKPcEmOdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink This worked, but had a tendency to drift. iteration 3 is a cheap rotary encoder from eBay driven by 1:1 gearing on the spindle shaft. This works perfectly. But I have gear-making facilities. (Cheap eBay encoder, though not the one I used): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40mm-Outer-Diameter-Incremental-Type-Photoelectric-Encoder-Rotary-Encoder-/281099904847 At that price, if you can find a way to drive it, it isn't worth trying to make anything. I would guess that the lathe has no gears on the spindle to use gear-tooth detectors on? -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On Tuesday 17 December 2013 18:55:04 John Alexander Stewart did opine: Hello all; 2014 sees me finishing up my lathe conversion to CNC. (Emco Compact-8). I'm a bit confused about spindle sensors, and I do see a few different designs. Question - if you had to do it again, what would YOU do for a modern spindle encoder? (trying to learn from those who have gone before me, wish me luck!) PS - I'm tempted to just go for the CNC4PC Index Pulse Card, but maybe there are better alternatives out there. Thanks; John A. Stewart. John: You need finer grained control than an index generator will ever allow if you ever intend to use the G33.1 or G76 thread cutting on the lathe, and once I had that working, I don't know why I ever considered not doing it. How big is the back end of the enco spindle? It can't be a whole lot bigger than any of the 7x models. I have the code to carve a 50 slot, 200 'edge' wheel with index to fit my 7x, and it wouldn't take long to edit to change the size of the center spindle hole a wee bit to make it fit the enco. That encoder's pix is at the lathe-stf/lathe-pix/Spindle-encoder-final.JPG link off my web page in the sig. I can dig up the code that carved that wheel, and the pcb above it, with the caveat that the pots you see in that pix, which fine tune the britness of the led's in the interruptors, are an after the make fix, smoothing the noise in the encoders velocity output considerably, if you would like to follow that path. Along that same vein, I love CNC4PC's C1G interface, but do not recommend CNC4PC's C41 spindle controller, its too slow, some non-linear, and needs mods to make it faster, lots faster when you are using LCNC to control the spindle speed in real time. Had I any clue to the rocks in the path to make that work well, I would have just bought a PMDX-106 in the first place. I have one of those on my toy milling machine but not under servo control, just open loop, which works great, but of course I can't do rigid tapping very handily with that. I don't know if the listserver will pass the gcode for the encoder wheel or not, but its attached. 10.4K. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene Blend until smooth. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. ( spindle-encoder.ngc ) ( by Lawrence Glaister VE7IT ) ( Sept 15 2007 ) ( lerman - thankyou for named variables and owords very cool ) ( Cut from arborite stock with 0.049 endmill. ) ( This encoder ring mounts on the lathe spindle drive pulley. ) ( Ring encoder provides A,B,Z phases using 3 H21TLB slot sensors. ) ( The H21TLB sensor use 5v and can directly drive parallel port pins. ) ( The sensor apeture is 0.035, so I used double that for the slot length ) ( to allow for some runout on mounting the ring. ) ( The main constraint is that the main track opto has to be able to physically ) ( read the inner track... reaching over the outer index track ) ( To preview what it will look like, set _endmill_dia = 0.0 below. ) ( With a high speed spindle you may be able to cut to depth in 1 pass. ) ( Edited to make a much smaller wheel with fewer slots by Gene Heskett ) (==) (= Subroutines ) ( cuts a circle at request diameter around x,y to requested depth ) o100 sub (Subroutine to do a circle) ( P1=X center P2=Y center P3-diameter P4=depth P5=feedrate ) g0 z#_safe_Z g0 x[#1-[#3* 0.5]] y#2 g0 z#4 g2 F[#5/1.5] x[#1-[#3/2]] y#2 i[#3/2] j0 g0 z#_safe_Z o100 endsub (==) (=== Define Constants/Variables ===) #_restartZ = -0.0210 #_endmill_dia = 0.03125 ( endmill diameter ) #_endmill_rad = [#_endmill_dia * 0.50] ( endmill radius ) #_duty_cycle = .30 ( adjust for 50% at output ) #_safe_Z = 0.050 ( safe Z height ) #_zstart = 0.0015 (run down to there fast, then ramp into slot) #_feedrate = 2.7 ( cutting feedrate ) S2500 (spindle speed) ( define characteristics of encoder and index tracks ) #_main_track_dia = 2.2765 ( diameter of main signal track ) #_index_track_dia = [#_main_track_dia - 0.155] ( diameter of index track ) ( May 30, 14:14 GH fix this to compensate for bit radii, needs 1.044 ID hole ) #_inside_cutout = [1.0500 - #_endmill_dia] ( diameter of interior cutout = inside of pulley) #_outside_cutout = 2.431 ( diameter of exterior cutout ~= enough space for tracks) (#_encoder_cycles = 39) ( number of slots to cut * 4 == 156 edges or about 2.30769230769 degree resolution) #_encoder_cycles = 50 #_slotlen = 0.100 (
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
Andy, This one has no index. How did you generate your index pulse? Cecil Andy Pugh wrote: (Cheap eBay encoder, though not the one I used): http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40mm-Outer-Diameter-Incremental-Type-Photoelectric-Encoder-Rotary-Encoder-/281099904847 At that price, if you can find a way to drive it, it isn't worth trying to make anything. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On 18 December 2013 00:21, Cecil Thomas wctho...@chartertn.net wrote: Andy, This one has no index. How did you generate your index pulse? I hadn't noticed that, I can't read Chinese. That might not be the end of the world, as it could be geared to the spindle at a more convenient ratio than 1:1 and the index could be taken from a separate flag on the spindle. But finding one nearly as cheap with index would be better. Sorry for the duff lead. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On Tue, 2013-12-17 at 18:32 -0500, John Alexander Stewart wrote: Hello all; 2014 sees me finishing up my lathe conversion to CNC. (Emco Compact-8). I'm a bit confused about spindle sensors, and I do see a few different designs. Question - if you had to do it again, what would YOU do for a modern spindle encoder? (trying to learn from those who have gone before me, wish me luck!) PS - I'm tempted to just go for the CNC4PC Index Pulse Card, but maybe there are better alternatives out there. Thanks; John A. Stewart. Hi John, Indeed I hope 2014 does see an operating cnc lathe in my shop. I ripped out all the mechanical stuff and started on a cnc implementation of a Jet 12 x 40. For the spindle I did something dumb which I will need to fix. Used a 360 cpr Koyo encoder but geared it (in a moment of dullness) 2:1 so index pulses are not unique in angular index. Duh! I geared this with a couple of timing pulley and a timing belt. I just need to make room for 1:1 so I can use the index without hassle. Yes, I know I could divide by 2 but the KISS principle is overpowering. If anyone has a really neat idea for getting the Z ballscrew aligned with the Z axis I'm all ears. I hope everyone has time with family over the holidays but also has time to work on THEIR pet projects. Good Grief! Winter solstice is Sat. As the frog said, time fun when you are having flies. Dave -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Servo Following Error
Greetings, I dusted off my CNC machine which required a bit of TLC. The system is now perfectly stable and all axis work using both Manual Control and MDI. Shortly after I try to run gcode it stops with most often a following error or sometimes something is silently throwing the estop. I am using Pico's universal stepper controller with their gecko interface. Please see a plot of the axis that is causing the following error on my test gcode: http://3dtopo.com/z-servo-plot.png I am really stumped, any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:09:18 -0700 From: Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error Greetings, I dusted off my CNC machine which required a bit of TLC. The system is now perfectly stable and all axis work using both Manual Control and MDI. Shortly after I try to run gcode it stops with most often a following error or sometimes something is silently throwing the estop. I am using Pico's universal stepper controller with their gecko interface. Please see a plot of the axis that is causing the following error on my test gcode: http://3dtopo.com/z-servo-plot.png I am really stumped, any advice would be greatly appreciated! maybe out of velocity headroom? Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On Dec 17, 2013, at 6:49 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: maybe out of velocity headroom? Hi Peter, Thanks, but I have the speed and acceleration way down for now. It used to work much much faster…. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
p.s. It still can go plenty fast (200+ ipm) using manual control or MDI... -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On Tuesday 17 December 2013 20:51:20 dave did opine: On Tue, 2013-12-17 at 18:32 -0500, John Alexander Stewart wrote: Hello all; 2014 sees me finishing up my lathe conversion to CNC. (Emco Compact-8). I'm a bit confused about spindle sensors, and I do see a few different designs. Question - if you had to do it again, what would YOU do for a modern spindle encoder? (trying to learn from those who have gone before me, wish me luck!) PS - I'm tempted to just go for the CNC4PC Index Pulse Card, but maybe there are better alternatives out there. Thanks; John A. Stewart. Hi John, Indeed I hope 2014 does see an operating cnc lathe in my shop. I ripped out all the mechanical stuff and started on a cnc implementation of a Jet 12 x 40. For the spindle I did something dumb which I will need to fix. Used a 360 cpr Koyo encoder but geared it (in a moment of dullness) 2:1 so index pulses are not unique in angular index. Duh! I geared this with a couple of timing pulley and a timing belt. I just need to make room for 1:1 so I can use the index without hassle. Yes, I know I could divide by 2 but the KISS principle is overpowering. If anyone has a really neat idea for getting the Z ballscrew aligned with the Z axis I'm all ears. I bolted up, loosely, the right end bearing, ran it up against the left bearing and adjusted the nut on the face of the carriage apron to hold the far end loosely in the correct position. Then ran the carriage to the right and tightened up the right end bearing where it fell. Then went back to the left, re-centered the nut in the apron, went back to the right and let that carrier move ever so slightly. My guess is that it is within a thou right now. No detectable bind. I hope everyone has time with family over the holidays but also has time to work on THEIR pet projects. Good Grief! Winter solstice is Sat. As the frog said, time fun when you are having flies. Dave -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg. clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.cl ktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene Every morning, I get up and look through the 'Forbes' list of the richest people in America. If I'm not there, I go to work -- Robert Orben A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:57:25 -0700 From: Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error p.s. It still can go plenty fast (200+ ipm) using manual control or MDI... If my math is right it looks like it blew up at 200 IPM (d/dt pos ~4 so ~4 IPS or 240 IPM) Does the error happen in the same place if you run the program again? -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On Tue, 2013-12-17 at 20:59 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
On Tuesday 17 December 2013 20:51:20 dave did opine:
On Tue, 2013-12-17 at 18:32 -0500, John Alexander Stewart wrote:
Hello all;
2014 sees me finishing up my lathe conversion to CNC. (Emco
Compact-8).
I'm a bit confused about spindle sensors, and I do see a few
different designs.
Question - if you had to do it again, what would YOU do for a modern
spindle encoder?
(trying to learn from those who have gone before me, wish me luck!)
PS - I'm tempted to just go for the CNC4PC Index Pulse Card, but maybe
there are better alternatives out there.
Thanks;
John A. Stewart.
Hi John,
Indeed I hope 2014 does see an operating cnc lathe in my shop. I ripped
out all the mechanical stuff and started on a cnc implementation of a
Jet 12 x 40.
For the spindle I did something dumb which I will need to fix. Used a
360 cpr Koyo encoder but geared it (in a moment of dullness) 2:1 so
index pulses are not unique in angular index. Duh! I geared this with a
couple of timing pulley and a timing belt. I just need to make room for
1:1 so I can use the index without hassle. Yes, I know I could divide by
2 but the KISS principle is overpowering.
If anyone has a really neat idea for getting the Z ballscrew aligned
with the Z axis I'm all ears.
I bolted up, loosely, the right end bearing, ran it up against the left
bearing and adjusted the nut on the face of the carriage apron to hold the
far end loosely in the correct position. Then ran the carriage to the
right and tightened up the right end bearing where it fell. Then went back
to the left, re-centered the nut in the apron, went back to the right and
let that carrier move ever so slightly. My guess is that it is within a
thou right now. No detectable bind.
I hope everyone has time with family over the holidays but also has time
to work on THEIR pet projects. Good Grief! Winter solstice is Sat. As
the frog said, time fun when you are having flies.
Dave
That makes sense, I've just been mentally fighting it. Tnx.
Dave
--
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business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how
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-- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business.
Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application
performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100%
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Cheers, Gene
--
There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene
Every morning, I get up and look through the 'Forbes' list of the
richest people in America. If I'm not there, I go to work
-- Robert Orben
A pen in the hand of this president is far more
dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of
law-abiding citizens.
--
Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT
organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
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--
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organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance
affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your
Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro!
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On Dec 17, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: On Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:57:25 -0700 From: Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error p.s. It still can go plenty fast (200+ ipm) using manual control or MDI... If my math is right it looks like it blew up at 200 IPM (d/dt pos ~4 so ~4 IPS or 240 IPM) Does the error happen in the same place if you run the program again? Hi Peter, It looks like Max Velocity was at the default max (912 in/min) for that test, but I confirmed it does the same thing with max velocity set way low like 16 in/min. Interesting it would go that fast though because currently the limits I have set for testing in the config file are far lower than that. E.g. that MAX_VELOCITY for that drive is currently set to 30.5 and PID_MAX_VEL is set to 30.65. It does seem to stop on the same gcode line for any given gcode file. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 19:29:46 -0700 From: Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error On Dec 17, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: On Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:57:25 -0700 From: Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error p.s. It still can go plenty fast (200+ ipm) using manual control or MDI... If my math is right it looks like it blew up at 200 IPM (d/dt pos ~4 so ~4 IPS or 240 IPM) Does the error happen in the same place if you run the program again? Hi Peter, It looks like Max Velocity was at the default max (912 in/min) for that test, but I confirmed it does the same thing with max velocity set way low like 16 in/min. Interesting it would go that fast though because currently the limits I have set for testing in the config file are far lower than that. E.g. that MAX_VELOCITY for that drive is currently set to 30.5 and PID_MAX_VEL is set to 30.65. It does seem to stop on the same gcode line for any given gcode file. can you add a plot of the commanded velocity? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On Dec 17, 2013, at 7:33 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: On Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 19:29:46 -0700 From: Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com On Dec 17, 2013, at 7:17 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: On Tue, 17 Dec 2013, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 18:57:25 -0700 From: Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com p.s. It still can go plenty fast (200+ ipm) using manual control or MDI... If my math is right it looks like it blew up at 200 IPM (d/dt pos ~4 so ~4 IPS or 240 IPM) Does the error happen in the same place if you run the program again? It looks like Max Velocity was at the default max (912 in/min) for that test, but I confirmed it does the same thing with max velocity set way low like 16 in/min. Interesting it would go that fast though because currently the limits I have set for testing in the config file are far lower than that. E.g. that MAX_VELOCITY for that drive is currently set to 30.5 and PID_MAX_VEL is set to 30.65. It does seem to stop on the same gcode line for any given gcode file. can you add a plot of the commanded velocity? Sure thing, please see: http://3dtopo.com/z-servo-plot2.png It is now the 4th channel (purple). You can also see my LinuxCNC window and the line it stops at for this file. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On Tuesday 17 December 2013 21:22:48 dave did opine: On Tue, 2013-12-17 at 20:59 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote: On Tuesday 17 December 2013 20:51:20 dave did opine: On Tue, 2013-12-17 at 18:32 -0500, John Alexander Stewart wrote: Hello all; 2014 sees me finishing up my lathe conversion to CNC. (Emco Compact-8). I'm a bit confused about spindle sensors, and I do see a few different designs. Question - if you had to do it again, what would YOU do for a modern spindle encoder? (trying to learn from those who have gone before me, wish me luck!) PS - I'm tempted to just go for the CNC4PC Index Pulse Card, but maybe there are better alternatives out there. Thanks; John A. Stewart. Hi John, Indeed I hope 2014 does see an operating cnc lathe in my shop. I ripped out all the mechanical stuff and started on a cnc implementation of a Jet 12 x 40. For the spindle I did something dumb which I will need to fix. Used a 360 cpr Koyo encoder but geared it (in a moment of dullness) 2:1 so index pulses are not unique in angular index. Duh! I geared this with a couple of timing pulley and a timing belt. I just need to make room for 1:1 so I can use the index without hassle. Yes, I know I could divide by 2 but the KISS principle is overpowering. If anyone has a really neat idea for getting the Z ballscrew aligned with the Z axis I'm all ears. I bolted up, loosely, the right end bearing, ran it up against the left bearing and adjusted the nut on the face of the carriage apron to hold the far end loosely in the correct position. Then ran the carriage to the right and tightened up the right end bearing where it fell. Then went back to the left, re-centered the nut in the apron, went back to the right and let that carrier move ever so slightly. My guess is that it is within a thou right now. No detectable bind. I hope everyone has time with family over the holidays but also has time to work on THEIR pet projects. Good Grief! Winter solstice is Sat. As the frog said, time fun when you are having flies. Dave That makes sense, I've just been mentally fighting it. Tnx. Dave As an ex bro-in-law once remarked: Its good enough for the girls I go with. He had a rather dry sense of humor about injustices though. He enlisted back in the day, finished growing up into a 225 lb 6'3 man but was given a medical when they found he had chorea. Can home, bought an old neighborhood bar, and had been running it quietly for about 18 months when the city building inspector came in one night and said he was out of code, no back fire exit he was going to padlock the place. Roger protested that the bar had been there, getting along with its neighbors for something like 30 years, why the sudden, and unannounced enforcement activity the guy couldn't even produce the city code that defined it. Roger by then knew the layout in the alley back of the building and suggested, pointing at a fairly clear spot on the back wall, saying there might be a good place for a new door. The guy agreed, so Roger picked him up and used him to make a new doorway in that 40 yo brick wall. Then he called the cops, whom he was on good terms with, told them to come and take out the trash. They did, charges were never filed. Roger framed in the hole and hung a cheap steel door in it the next day so he was legal again. He was funny about abused kids, married the first 2 times just to file and take the child away from an unfit mother in the divorce a few months later. Got married to an RN then, who was supplying the money to build them a house for all 3 kids, cash carry. Rogers sweat equity. Most bar owners have to make an attitude adjustment occasionally, but Roger said 4 or 5 years later after he had sold it, making a good profit, that after that, he never had to do it again, just a look under a raised eyebrow was all it took. But chorea and scoliosis was taking him down fast, by then I was 1 taller than he was. I have no idea if he still survives, would be about 63 now. I haven't checked since his older sis, my ex bitch, left in late '85. Cheaper that way. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene Make it right before you make it faster. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On 12/17/2013 07:09 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Greetings, I dusted off my CNC machine which required a bit of TLC. The system is now perfectly stable and all axis work using both Manual Control and MDI. Shortly after I try to run gcode it stops with most often a following error or sometimes something is silently throwing the estop. I am using Pico's universal stepper controller with their gecko interface. Please see a plot of the axis that is causing the following error on my test gcode: http://3dtopo.com/z-servo-plot.png I am really stumped, any advice would be greatly appreciated! Ah, you say the Gecko interface. So, you probably are using brush servo motors and the Gecko 320 step-servo drive. It may just be running out of dynamic range. What is your power supply voltage? I see in the delta plot that the velocity is ramping up to 5 units, meaning 5 encoder counts/servo period, or typically 5000 counts/second. Taking a wild assumption of 500 cycle/rev encoders, that would be 2.5 revs/second or 150 RPM, which doesn't sound very fast. But, if they are 500 count/rev encoders, that would be 600 RPM. Depending on the motor and the supply voltage, that could be as fast as it can go. Also, there are parameters in the .ini file such as MAX_VELOCITY PID_MAX_VEL OUTPUT_SCALE OUTPUT_SCALE is a **divider**, so larger numbers reduce the output command to the step generator. Generally, it is left at 1.0 (or -1.0 to reverse direction). MAX_VELOCITY and PID_MAX_VEL are in user units per SECOND. PID_MAX_VEL should be slightly higher than MAX_VELOCITY to give the PID calculation a little headroom for acceleration. Make sure these ini file settings are sufficient for your machine. It looks from your plot that the move is about .4 per second, or 24 IPM. Figure out how many RPM you need to move at that speed, then work backwards from supply voltage and motor ratings to see if the voltage can give that speed. Feel free to contact me if the above hints don't point you to the solution. Jon Jon -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On 12/17/2013 08:29 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: It looks like Max Velocity was at the default max (912 in/min) for that test, but I confirmed it does the same thing with max velocity set way low like 16 in/min. Turning MAX_VELOCITY down in the INI file will make it worse. OR, do you mean turning it down in the GUI (Axis?) Depending on LinuxCNC version, the GUI max velocity slider may not limit your rapid\feed (G0) moves! So, make sure you can move at the desired speeds in G1 first. If it only fails in G0, then it is most likely that you have set excessive velocities in your [TRAJ] section. Interesting it would go that fast though because currently the limits I have set for testing in the config file are far lower than that. E.g. that MAX_VELOCITY for that drive is currently set to 30.5 and PID_MAX_VEL is set to 30.65. My reading of the plot is about one vertical unit at .2 (200m) in half a second, or .4 per second = 24 IPM. That's a rough guess by eye. Also, the error trace is very suspicious! It hums along at a very small error (~.0005 or less) for the entire move, then suddenly surges to .010 or so when it trips the following error limit. The only thing I can figure is that the next command is for a MUCH higher velocity, which the motion hardware cannot perform. It does seem to stop on the same gcode line for any given gcode file. That is also quite bizarre, if true. If the same line of the G-code file tells it to do something different, it would be odd for that to cause a fault. Jon -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On Dec 17, 2013, at 8:26 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: n 12/17/2013 08:29 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: It looks like Max Velocity was at the default max (912 in/min) for that test, but I confirmed it does the same thing with max velocity set way low like 16 in/min. Turning MAX_VELOCITY down in the INI file will make it worse. OR, do you mean turning it down in the GUI (Axis?) Depending on LinuxCNC version, the GUI max velocity slider may not limit your rapid\feed (G0) moves! So, make sure you can move at the desired speeds in G1 first. If it only fails in G0, then it is most likely that you have set excessive velocities in your [TRAJ] section. Interesting it would go that fast though because currently the limits I have set for testing in the config file are far lower than that. E.g. that MAX_VELOCITY for that drive is currently set to 30.5 and PID_MAX_VEL is set to 30.65. My reading of the plot is about one vertical unit at .2 (200m) in half a second, or .4 per second = 24 IPM. That's a rough guess by eye. Also, the error trace is very suspicious! It hums along at a very small error (~.0005 or less) for the entire move, then suddenly surges to .010 or so when it trips the following error limit. The only thing I can figure is that the next command is for a MUCH higher velocity, which the motion hardware cannot perform. It does seem to stop on the same gcode line for any given gcode file. That is also quite bizarre, if true. If the same line of the G-code file tells it to do something different, it would be odd for that to cause a fault. OK - thanks everyone for their help! I actually just plugged the power supply directly into the wall instead of through a SSR controlled by the USC. Must be some sort of interference? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
Hi Andy; Thank you for the response - I have seen your little 7x lathe cnc conversion on a few places - well done. I'll readily admit to being a bit newby in encoders. The Compact-8 does have a 40 tooth gear on the spindle. Right now spindle pulley is off, because was doing some measurements on it for someone in Britain who specializes in threading clutches - he needed a Compact-8 to measure. Was thinking that, while it was off, I could make up a large disk with holes for the encoder. Would it be better to read off the 40 tooth gear on the spindle?? To me, in my novice state, I'd think that was not as good, but... With the ebay rotary encoder - I can mount that and drive it either via a timing belt, or simple gear - I have a set or three of change wheels for the lathe, and I'm sure one could be put into use. Hmmm - I'm going to look at these rotary encoders more. I'd think that I'd still need a timing pulse though. Thank you - John A. Stewart. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
Hi Gene - by: John: You need finer grained control than an index generator will ever allow if you ever intend to use the G33.1 or G76 thread cutting on the lathe, and once I had that working, I don't know why I ever considered not doing it. I presume you mean the one pulse per rev that Mach users seem to be stuck with. Code for encoder wheel came through, by the way. I did measure the spindle diameter (not by lathe right now) so can not comment on how well it'll fit with your GCode. The Emco (Austrian, Enco is Asian) will be running with a 3 phase motor and inverter - already here, just waiting to be installed. The inverter takes 0-10v for the spindle - so that's good. This is all interesting! Thank you - John A. Stewart -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code
Looking forward to trying this out. - Original Message - From: sam sokolik sa...@empirescreen.com To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2013 3:10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Slow G code Here is a crappy video showing the difference (first run is current TP - second run is Roberts hard work) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUajH5BCOUQfeature=youtu.be spiral is made up of short line segments. The current tp has to be able to stop by the end of the next segment so it peaks at about 110ipm. The new TP can look 40 segments ahead. (that will be a configurable in the future..) and peaks at about 410ipm. Current status as I understand it. Read ahead works if segment transitions are -Line-Line -Tangent line-arc, arc-line -Tangent arc-arc Darn impressive. Great work Robert! sam On 12/16/2013 12:43 PM, Kent A. Reed wrote: On 12/16/2013 01:02 PM, John Alexander Stewart wrote: It's been a while since I wrote SLERPing code, but the project I wrote it for used Quaternions, which I don't think LinuxCNC uses?? Quaternions certainly made a lot of the internal maths easier. (code was in the FreeWRL VRML/X3D browser) *Does* LinuxCNC use Quaternions? Well, that depends on your meaning of the word use. If you look at the libnml/posemath/ routines you'll see a lot of internal usage of quarternions for the reason you name but most calls to the routines from the rest of LinuxCNC consist of customary and usual representations. What representations? Well, consider this snippet from posemath.h - /* translation types */ struct PM_CARTESIAN;/* Cart */ struct PM_SPHERICAL;/* Sph */ struct PM_CYLINDRICAL;/* Cyl */ /* rotation types */ struct PM_ROTATION_VECTOR;/* Rot */ struct PM_ROTATION_MATRIX;/* Mat */ struct PM_QUATERNION;/* Quat */ struct PM_EULER_ZYZ;/* Zyz */ struct PM_EULER_ZYX;/* Zyx */ struct PM_RPY;/* Rpy */ /* pose types */ struct PM_POSE;/* Pose */ struct PM_HOMOGENEOUS;/* Hom */ - You can browse the source code itself but it's faster to read the nearly 15-year old document http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/rcslib/posemath_examples.html Regards, Kent -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
I wonder if the pickup from a Pertronix Ignitor electronic ignition retrofit for vehicles with breaker points ignition would work to read pulses from a gear? In the ignition kit it's used to read the very low amplitude breaker points cam on the distributor shaft. Gear teeth ought to provide a much sharper, more distinct pulse. To make an index, either break off a tooth or fill in a gap with ferrous metal. Using a missing tooth for index would be ideal if your spindle gear already has a broken off tooth. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On Tue, 2013-12-17 at 22:37 -0500, John Alexander Stewart wrote: Hi Andy; Thank you for the response - I have seen your little 7x lathe cnc conversion on a few places - well done. I'll readily admit to being a bit newby in encoders. The Compact-8 does have a 40 tooth gear on the spindle. Right now spindle pulley is off, because was doing some measurements on it for someone in Britain who specializes in threading clutches - he needed a Compact-8 to measure. Was thinking that, while it was off, I could make up a large disk with holes for the encoder. Would it be better to read off the 40 tooth gear on the spindle?? To me, in my novice state, I'd think that was not as good, but... With the ebay rotary encoder - I can mount that and drive it either via a timing belt, or simple gear - I have a set or three of change wheels for the lathe, and I'm sure one could be put into use. Hmmm - I'm going to look at these rotary encoders more. I'd think that I'd still need a timing pulse though. Thank you - John A. Stewart. You might want to take a look at what Jon Elson did on his BP, this of course assumes the gear is steel. Dave -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Servo Following Error
On 12/17/2013 08:50 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: On Dec 17, 2013, at 7:33 PM, Peter C. Wallacep...@mesanet.com wrote: can you add a plot of the commanded velocity? Sure thing, please see: http://3dtopo.com/z-servo-plot2.png It is now the 4th channel (purple). No, that is MEASURED velocity from the encoder. I think the COMMANDED velocity will be quite instructive, but I'm not sure there is a hal signal that displays that. But, you are running version 2.5.3, and I think that version may not obey the GUI velocity limits on G0 moves, which I clearly see in your screenshot. So, you might change those few G0's at the beginning of your G-code programs to G1 and see if that prevents the problem. If so, then you may need to turn down the MAX_VELOCITY in the [TRAJ] section of your .ini file. Or, possibly, the velocity is fine but the MAX_ACCELERATION value is too high. Jon -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
I used the black dummy CD or DVD (cant remember which) that comes in a new stack of disks to make my encoder disk. I cut 20 equally spaced notches about .15 inch deep and made one of them about .45 deep for the index. I used TTL output optical interrupters to read the disk with 2 for quadrature and one for index. The disk is very easy to cut and it runs true without worrying about it wobbling. I cut mine on my cnc'd Millrite with a cnc rotary table but you could easily lay out and file the notches in less time than it took me to write the code and set up the table on the mill. I mounted the interrupters on very thin little aluminum plates and held them onto the machine with supermagnets. When I had confirmed the timing of A and B for quadrature and made sure the index wasn't picking up the shallow notches I put a couple of drops of superglue on the edge of the aluminum plate. When it had set I removed the magnets and drilled the plates for mounting screws with complete assurance that they would be rigidly mounted in the right place. I used this technique on the spindle of a Jet 9 x 20 and also on my Monarch 10EE. They are both very happy. Cecil -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On 12/17/2013 09:37 PM, John Alexander Stewart wrote: The Compact-8 does have a 40 tooth gear on the spindle. Right now spindle pulley is off, because was doing some measurements on it for someone in Britain who specializes in threading clutches - he needed a Compact-8 to measure. Was thinking that, while it was off, I could make up a large disk with holes for the encoder. Would it be better to read off the 40 tooth gear on the spindle?? To me, in my novice state, I'd think that was not as good, but... If the gear is steel, you could use the trick I used: http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html The gear teeth on the Bridgeport are probably larger than on your lathe, but those Avago sensors detect the PASSAGE of the tooth across the face of the sensor, and are supposed to be able to detect fairly small teeth. You need 3 sensors, but together they cost less than a most encoders. A 40-tooth gear would give you 160 counts/rev, which should be fine for threading. I do fine on my Bridgeport with 324 counts/rev. Jon -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
I was a little concerned that 20 teeth (80 quadrature) wouldn't be enough resolution. After cutting a couple of 0-80 and 00-90 screws on both the machines and testing with commercial nuts and examining the thread geometry under the microscope I no longer have any reservations about 80 quadrature not being good enough. If I can consistently cut 90 tpi in multiple passes and leave a thread that is perfect in form and pitch then I think it will do fine for the typical 40 tpi to 8 tpi that one normally is required to cut. By the way the threads are cut in about 20 passes so the resolution and repeatability have been thoroughly tested. If you wonder why it takes so many passes you have probably never actually held a 00-90 screw in your hand. The diameter is .043 so the radius is .0215. How deep a cut do you think you can take on that little sucker even with a tool that's as sharp as it is humanly possible to make it. I know when the tool is dull because it just pushes the little fellow away and breaks it off as it climbs up on the tool. I am sure I could cut a 000-120 thread but I don't have a nut to test it with. If on the other hand I was using the spindle as a servo driven axis I would probably want more slots. By the way I am thinking seriously about repurposing my HF 7 x 10 lathe as a CNC tool and cutter grinder for the single lip engraving tools I use which are in the neighborhood of 20 degree included angle with a tip of 4 to 15 thousandths. I previously had it set up as a cnc lathe with a very large brushed servo driving the spindle and controlled as the A axis. It worked well enough but the top speed was limited by LCNC's ability to produce steps fast enough to use the motors top speed. The encoder on the servo was 500 lines so the resolution was far better than I ever needed and it would work happily at ridiculously slow speeds e.g. 1 to 10 RPM as would be used for a the work holder for a cutter grinder. With a grinding wheel on the cross slide I could produce the tool tip geometry and relief just like the big boys. I robbed the x and z servos from it to install on the Jet 9 x 20 and used the spindle servo as the z axis servo on the 10EE. I guess I'll have to go servo hunting again. Cecil -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Lathe spindle encoder, Mesa 7i76.
On Wednesday 18 December 2013 01:16:47 John Alexander Stewart did opine: Hi Gene - by: John: You need finer grained control than an index generator will ever allow if you ever intend to use the G33.1 or G76 thread cutting on the lathe, and once I had that working, I don't know why I ever considered not doing it. I presume you mean the one pulse per rev that Mach users seem to be stuck with. Yes, poor things. Code for encoder wheel came through, by the way. I did measure the spindle diameter (not by lathe right now) so can not comment on how well it'll fit with your GCode. The Emco (Austrian, Enco is Asian) will be running with a 3 phase motor and inverter - already here, just waiting to be installed. The inverter takes 0-10v for the spindle - so that's good. Whereas I took the cheap way out and bought a 1.5hp treadmill motor off fleabay, controller and all $100 bill. But 2 things wrong with the controller, starting with its being an scr model so it hummed to beat the band at medium speeds, plus I blew two of the darned things with accidental shorts while first assembling it. In the end I wound up buying a hexfet based controller, 25 amp rated from Empire in Wisconsin, around $150, runs dead silent and has almost 300% the capacity this motor needs. Then because the motor is bigger, it of course wouldn't fit in the pocket under the bed where the 200 watter was. So I made a jackshaft assembly that sat in the old motors position, using a new but same teeth timing pulley in the same location as the OEM motor would have held it, but used a 3 poly-groove pulley on the other end that the 1 pulley on the new motor drove, so I had a 3/1 step down to the original backgear equipt head. The tread mill motor can easily muster up 10+ grand at about 9.5 volts into the controller, so I am presently setup for about 2k max revs at the spindle nose, with enough torque to turn the house around. Max volts from the pwm converter is about 8 volts so even at that speed, the servo speed control is very strong. Where before I was out of torque pulling a 3 thou by 2 thou chip off a piece of 3/4 cold roll in a 4 chuck it now has a much better built 5 4 jaw, and I can now pull a 10x10 chip off of a 2 diameter piece of steel. At speeds that have the inserts edge itself dull red. The other half of that is the strength of the gears in the head, particularly the hub keyways, so I expect to be looking for better gears if I make a habit of that big a cut too often. :( By the time I was done, with a suitable suicide braking setup to be able to run the g33.1 in peck cycle, I expect I have the cost of your 3 phase motor and its inverter in it. And my .hal file is over 1200 lines! The hand made box on the rear of the lathe to contain all that just kept growing, but its not in the way so its a shrug, it keeps the swarf out of the electrics. That motor is very quiet, all you can hear at 10k shaft revs is the air from the fan cast as part of the pulley. The Z stepper setup is far noisier as it has the clearances of a 2/1 spur gear stepdown to drive the 16x5mm ball screw. Thats a major clatter maker as both gears are from a metal gear change gear kit. Someday I'll put a much quieter timing belt setup on it, but the gears are what I had on hand, just needed bore machining for some home made taperlock hubs. This is all interesting! Thank you - John A. Stewart -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.cl ktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy. A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Rapidly troubleshoot problems before they affect your business. Most IT organizations don't have a clear picture of how application performance affects their revenue. With AppDynamics, you get 100% visibility into your Java,.NET, PHP application. Start your 15-day FREE TRIAL of AppDynamics Pro! http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=84349831iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing
