Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
On Jan 22, 2014, at 10:21 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: 570 Oz-In is a lot, but of course, that is only at standstill. But, they should do fine, especially with a belt reduction. 5 A will require the big Gecko 203 drive. For that, you might consider Gecko's servo motors and our PWM servo drives. The price would be pretty close, and the performance will be a lot better. I can advise on specific models, encoders, etc. they have a very affordable size 23 brushless motor, the KL23BLS115, good for 180 Oz-In (but that is a RUNNING rating, not a standstill rating). $52 without encoder. You can get a good encoder with index from Digi-Key for about $38. I have found this motor to work quite well with my servo amps and our Universal PWM Controller. Hi Jon, Interesting - yeah works out to around the same price and would be a infinity better set up. Could I use the PWM Servo Amplifier to drive all 4 axes? I have had good luck with the encoders Kelling sells - I love that they have adjustable CPM. What encoders do you like? Anything else I need? Where does one get the connectors for your PWM Panel? One last question - how would you recommend going about adding a 5th axis? I could live with 4 axes for now manually setting a 5th axis (e.g. tilt - but 5 would be ideal). As a side note I have opted to upgrade the ACME screws to a ballscrews as the first step. Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
On Jan 29, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: On 01/29/2014 04:04 AM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: they have a very affordable size 23 brushless motor, the KL23BLS115, good for 180 Oz-In (but that is a RUNNING rating, not a standstill rating). $52 without encoder. You can get a good encoder with index from Digi-Key for about $38. I have found this motor to work quite well with my servo amps and our Universal PWM Controller. Hi Jon, Interesting - yeah works out to around the same price and would be a infinity better set up. Well, checking on Automation Tech, the same motor is listed at $78, I think. So, I don't know if Keling will honor the $52 price still on the Keling web site. The keling site may now be a zombie web site with nobody servicing the orders. I notice Lin Engineering seems to have the exact same motors, but they don't show prices online. Could I use the PWM Servo Amplifier to drive all 4 axes? One brushless PWM servo amp will drive each motor, so for 4 axes, you'd need 4 servo amps. I see. That would pretty much be a deal breaker as just the power supply alone for 5 axes would be $750. Could I use something else (not that I don't think its not worth it - I just don't have the budget). Can I use toroidal or switching power supply (even if it may mean going with brushed motors)? Or perhaps this driver: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23/dc-brushless-driver-for-kl23bls-115 I have had good luck with the encoders Kelling sells - I love that they have adjustable CPM. What encoders do you like? That would be the AMT10x series. They are certainly very affordable, but have some lag when the motor is accelerating. I found it a lot easier to tune the servo loop when using classic optical encoders without interpolation. I remember you mentioning that now. Do you like U.S. Digital or what is your preference? Anything else I need? Where does one get the connectors for your PWM Panel? The connectors for the PWM controller are included. We now supply 2-part pluggable screw-terminal connectors. Oh nice! One last question - how would you recommend going about adding a 5th axis? I could live with 4 axes for now manually setting a 5th axis (e.g. tilt - but 5 would be ideal). Two PWM controllers can be daisy chained off one parallel port, to go up to 8 axes. You can use the extra channels for spindle encoder/speed control, jog pendant, etc. When you connect the additional controller, the driver automatically detects it and exports additional HAL pins. Awesome! Do they each get their own serial port? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
On Jan 29, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: On 01/29/2014 04:35 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: I see. That would pretty much be a deal breaker as just the power supply alone for 5 axes would be $750. Could I use something else (not that I don't think its not worth it - I just don't have the budget). Can I use toroidal or switching power supply (even if it may mean going with brushed motors)? Or perhaps this driver: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23/dc-brushless-driver-for-kl23bls-115 Our PWM servo amp is not a power supply is is a power amplifier that takes a control signal and sends a measured amount of power to the motor. The Automation Tech device you mention is a SPINDLE driver, not meant for positioning servos. Understood, thank you for clearing that up! So I guess to use a power supply I would have to use something like a brushed motors, Gecko controllers and your USC instead (like I have now for another machine). The Automation Tech device says: DC Brushless Driver for KL23BLS-115. I thought KL23BLS-115 is the brushless motor you had recommended: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/dc-brushless-motor/kl23bls-series-11 It says on the product description: An external voltage of 0-5V can also be used to control the speed. The direction of the motor is specified by direction control input. - See more at: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23/dc-brushless-driver-for-kl23bls-115#sthash.pyCNlU0w.dpuf; Apparently they also have a driver for their smaller brushless motors. I remember you mentioning that now. Do you like U.S. Digital or what is your preference? US Digital is OK, but the Avago encoders are not much more expensive, and you get a wide range of resolutions, as well as an index output. Cool, thanks! One last question - how would you recommend going about adding a 5th axis? I could live with 4 axes for now manually setting a 5th axis (e.g. tilt - but 5 would be ideal). Two PWM controllers can be daisy chained off one parallel port, to go up to 8 axes. You can use the extra channels for spindle encoder/speed control, jog pendant, etc. When you connect the additional controller, the driver automatically detects it and exports additional HAL pins. Awesome! Do they each get their own serial port? There is no serial port. These devices are controlled by the PC PARALLEL port, and one Par Port can control two boards. The boards synchronize between themselves over the par port bus. Sorry - I meant parallel port. Nice it only needs one! Would I need a special cable to connect the boards? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tormach mill, unique design or Chinese inside?
I have been traveling to China for many years and know many of the machine tool factories around the Shanghai area including the one who makes the Tormach machines. I have a long time friend in the machine tool business over there who knows all of the factories and who makes what for who. None of them produce the whole machine - they are all integrators using parts produced by other component factories. There are companies who make the castings, companies who make the sheet metal, companies who make all of the other components, and even shopping malls where you can go and buy components. Their are even factories who do nothing but make carousel tool changers. The Chinese domestic market is so large that that type of distributed manufacturing is viable for products like this. I don't personally have any problem with Chinese products, provided that you find the right factories. Chinese manufacturing has come a long ways in the last 20 years. It may be true that Tormach designed the casting, although I don't see much need to as there are many existing slug designs. They probably did design the sheet metal. But the spindle, belts, pulleys, electronics, motors, ball screws, couplers, linear rails, and bearings - you know all of the components that actually function - are almost certainly all off-the-shelf Chinese components. If they were using brands like IKO or THK - surely they'd brag about that (using Japanese parts instead - LOL). There are actually some really nice Chinese controllers being produced for cheap, so why they are still using Mach3 is beyond me. And here is a fun fact: If the Chinese factories want even better quality, they actually import components from Taiwan, which has about a 40 year lead over Chinese manufacturing technology. Again, I don't have a problem with Chinese components myself. But the question I have is... if you find a quality Chinese integrator and specify the way the machines must be built, tested, and to what tolerances they must meet - does that then make it an American product? I guess if you think the iPhone is an American product because Apple designed the skin around which the Chinese components are housed, then yes. But that would make Mach3 on Windows the equivalent of iTunes on iOS, which may not be that much of a stretch - haha. Len I have a PCNC770 in my shop. I can't speak officially for Tormach but indications are that Tormach creates all of design and specifications and outsources the manufacture. Their engineering documents on the website and the offering of training classes shows that the products are theirs from beginning to end. (I am biased) -- WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
