Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 03 March 2019 22:11:39 a k wrote:

> Hi
> One thing that I noticed day before problem with encoder.
> I am using m52 to stop feed with 5 vdc that converted to frequency
> etc, When I stop feed, machine has changes in few thausands .
> X and y axis moved in few thausands but z axis was more quite .
> And next day z axis motor stop working.
> That may indicate something
>
Useing a halmeter, take a look at motion.adaptive-feed. It might be stuck 
on 0.0. I don't know why, unless you used gedit to do something to 
it recently, but this could be in indication of a contaminated .hal 
file.

Using gedit at my place turned out to be playing with a very bad deck of 
cards.  So I've been using geany now for years, and I sleep a lot 
better. Haven't scrambled a file since.

[...]

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[a k]

Hi
One thing that I noticed day before problem with encoder.
I am using m52 to stop feed with 5 vdc that converted to frequency etc,
When I stop feed, machine has changes in few thausands .
X and y axis moved in few thausands but z axis was more quite .
And next day z axis motor stop working.
That may indicate something


On Sun, Mar 3, 2019, 7:01 PM a k  wrote:

> Hi
> Stuart
> Phone is there, maybe even same number but owner different.
> I did call few years ago and another company did purchased original
> servodinamics.
>
> Motors drive not exactly same. Today owner say that original servodinamic
> was very small business etc
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2019, 5:38 PM Stuart Stevenson  wrote:
>
>> Aram,
>> I just searched for aerodynamics. I called the telephone number on the web
>> page. Servo dynamics' phone system answered and told me if I knew my
>> party's extension I could dial it at any time. I hung up at that time. It
>> looks as if the report of their demise is a little premature.
>> Thanks
>> Stuart
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2019, 5:26 PM a k  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi
>> > I just found that encoder on my servomotor stop working.
>> > I turn shaft and number does not changing.
>> > Enverything was good yesterday .
>> > Today not.
>> > It is servodynamic motor. Company not exist any more.
>> > I did not run it whole a lot.
>> > How I can check that it is encoder motor and not a drive?
>> >
>> > Also, if I find similar size nema 34 , do I need to return again?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > Aram
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 1:59 PM Thaddeus Waldner 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > I have a small machine with spindle motor driven by a Toshiba VFS-11
>> vfd.
>> > > I currently have a forward and reverse signal controlling the drive
>> but I
>> > > need to be able to control the speed. From what I’ve seen, this drive
>> > > connects digitally via the modus protocol, and someone actually wrote
>> a
>> > > driver for this drive for LinuxCNC. Can someone direct me to a list of
>> > > instructions on how to get it set up that way?
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Thaddeus Waldner
>> > >
>> > > ___
>> > > Emc-users mailing list
>> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> > >
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> >
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[a k]

Hi
Stuart
Phone is there, maybe even same number but owner different.
I did call few years ago and another company did purchased original
servodinamics.

Motors drive not exactly same. Today owner say that original servodinamic
was very small business etc




On Sun, Mar 3, 2019, 5:38 PM Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

> Aram,
> I just searched for aerodynamics. I called the telephone number on the web
> page. Servo dynamics' phone system answered and told me if I knew my
> party's extension I could dial it at any time. I hung up at that time. It
> looks as if the report of their demise is a little premature.
> Thanks
> Stuart
>
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2019, 5:26 PM a k  wrote:
>
> > Hi
> > I just found that encoder on my servomotor stop working.
> > I turn shaft and number does not changing.
> > Enverything was good yesterday .
> > Today not.
> > It is servodynamic motor. Company not exist any more.
> > I did not run it whole a lot.
> > How I can check that it is encoder motor and not a drive?
> >
> > Also, if I find similar size nema 34 , do I need to return again?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Aram
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 1:59 PM Thaddeus Waldner 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I have a small machine with spindle motor driven by a Toshiba VFS-11
> vfd.
> > > I currently have a forward and reverse signal controlling the drive
> but I
> > > need to be able to control the speed. From what I’ve seen, this drive
> > > connects digitally via the modus protocol, and someone actually wrote a
> > > driver for this drive for LinuxCNC. Can someone direct me to a list of
> > > instructions on how to get it set up that way?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Thaddeus Waldner
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] ac servo motor nema34

[Jon Elson]

On 03/03/2019 07:23 PM, a k wrote:

hi
i did not look for servo motor for long time.
in 2004 i did buy motor from servodinamics. and it was it.
motor not good now
is there source-distributors of similar low cost motors --


Check with automation technologies :
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ac-servo-motors/

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[Stuart Stevenson]

Aram,
I just searched for aerodynamics. I called the telephone number on the web
page. Servo dynamics' phone system answered and told me if I knew my
party's extension I could dial it at any time. I hung up at that time. It
looks as if the report of their demise is a little premature.
Thanks
Stuart

On Sun, Mar 3, 2019, 5:26 PM a k  wrote:

> Hi
> I just found that encoder on my servomotor stop working.
> I turn shaft and number does not changing.
> Enverything was good yesterday .
> Today not.
> It is servodynamic motor. Company not exist any more.
> I did not run it whole a lot.
> How I can check that it is encoder motor and not a drive?
>
> Also, if I find similar size nema 34 , do I need to return again?
>
> Thanks
> Aram
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 1:59 PM Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a small machine with spindle motor driven by a Toshiba VFS-11 vfd.
> > I currently have a forward and reverse signal controlling the drive but I
> > need to be able to control the speed. From what I’ve seen, this drive
> > connects digitally via the modus protocol, and someone actually wrote a
> > driver for this drive for LinuxCNC. Can someone direct me to a list of
> > instructions on how to get it set up that way?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Thaddeus Waldner
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[a k]

Hi
Jon
There is name there but different ownership.
Logo of servodynamic has change - owner change too
Similar products

On Sun, Mar 3, 2019, 5:24 PM Jon Elson  wrote:

> On 03/03/2019 06:28 PM, a k wrote:
> > i did open one motor before, very same type. it did not work after.
> Yes, for AC servos, the encoder has to be aligned to the
> magnets in the motor.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[Jon Elson]

On 03/03/2019 06:28 PM, a k wrote:

i did open one motor before, very same type. it did not work after.
Yes, for AC servos, the encoder has to be aligned to the 
magnets in the motor.


Jon


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[Emc-users] ac servo motor nema34

[a k]

hi
i did not look for servo motor for long time.
in 2004 i did buy motor from servodinamics. and it was it.
motor not good now
is there source-distributors of similar low cost motors --
thanks
aram

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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[Jon Elson]

On 03/03/2019 05:35 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 at 23:26, a k  wrote:


I just found that encoder on my servomotor stop working.
I turn shaft and number does not changing.
Enverything was good yesterday .
Today not.
It is servodynamic motor. Company not exist any more.

Maybe the LED has died. Is there any current flow on the power supply
to the encoder?

First, ALWAYS, check for bad connections!  90% of all 
electronic failures is a bad connection.
Check that the encoder is getting 5V power.  What are you 
using to read the encoder position?


I had not heard ServoDynamics was out of business, too bad, 
they made good stuff.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[a k]

i did open one motor before, very same type. it did not work after.
i better take motor to some shop.
i think in ac servo motor encoder aliened to magnetic wave etc, and i have
no knowledge how to deal with it.
better some shop - let them see it
this motor has a brake for z axis, but  shaft moves ok.


On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 4:20 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 at 00:14, a k  wrote:
>
> > it is motor encoder not good. that is not repair able
>
> Have a look inside the motor end cover, it might be a standard part.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 at 00:14, a k  wrote:

> it is motor encoder not good. that is not repair able

Have a look inside the motor end cover, it might be a standard part.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[a k]

i did move encoder cable to another drive , no change number in lcnc, and
move another encoder cable to z drive and number changing.

it is motor encoder not good. that is not repair able so need new/another
ac servo motor nema34

On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 3:54 PM a k  wrote:

> hi
> changing number are in linuxcnc where x ok y ok and z axis encoder does
> not changing.
> my drive linze and led on it ok.
> i will swap encoder cable to another drive to see if any change.
>
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 3:38 PM andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 at 23:26, a k  wrote:
>>
>> > I just found that encoder on my servomotor stop working.
>> > I turn shaft and number does not changing.
>> > Enverything was good yesterday .
>> > Today not.
>> > It is servodynamic motor. Company not exist any more.
>>
>> Maybe the LED has died. Is there any current flow on the power supply
>> to the encoder?
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[a k]

hi
changing number are in linuxcnc where x ok y ok and z axis encoder does not
changing.
my drive linze and led on it ok.
i will swap encoder cable to another drive to see if any change.

On Sun, Mar 3, 2019 at 3:38 PM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 at 23:26, a k  wrote:
>
> > I just found that encoder on my servomotor stop working.
> > I turn shaft and number does not changing.
> > Enverything was good yesterday .
> > Today not.
> > It is servodynamic motor. Company not exist any more.
>
> Maybe the LED has died. Is there any current flow on the power supply
> to the encoder?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder down

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 3 Mar 2019 at 23:26, a k  wrote:

> I just found that encoder on my servomotor stop working.
> I turn shaft and number does not changing.
> Enverything was good yesterday .
> Today not.
> It is servodynamic motor. Company not exist any more.

Maybe the LED has died. Is there any current flow on the power supply
to the encoder?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916


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[Emc-users] Encoder down

[a k]

Hi
I just found that encoder on my servomotor stop working.
I turn shaft and number does not changing.
Enverything was good yesterday .
Today not.
It is servodynamic motor. Company not exist any more.
I did not run it whole a lot.
How I can check that it is encoder motor and not a drive?

Also, if I find similar size nema 34 , do I need to return again?

Thanks
Aram









On Mon, Jan 28, 2019, 1:59 PM Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have a small machine with spindle motor driven by a Toshiba VFS-11 vfd.
> I currently have a forward and reverse signal controlling the drive but I
> need to be able to control the speed. From what I’ve seen, this drive
> connects digitally via the modus protocol, and someone actually wrote a
> driver for this drive for LinuxCNC. Can someone direct me to a list of
> instructions on how to get it set up that way?
>
> Thanks,
> Thaddeus Waldner
>
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Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[Kirk Wallace]

On 3/3/19 1:05 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
...
Recently, I got three different USB to RS232 adapters and the DeTech was 
the only one that mostly worked out of the box. One didn't work at all. 


...
Oops I meant "USB to RS485 adapters"


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Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[Kirk Wallace]

On 3/3/19 11:59 AM, Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

I plan to use the VF-s11 driver. I actually have it loading
successfully in my Hal and Ini setup  and connecting to the usb-rs485
device but all that it can do so far is count transmission errors.


Modbus can be hard to troubleshoot because there is very little reply 
feedback unless everything is working properly (slave ID, correct baud 
rate, stop bits, parity, handshake, 7 1 E seemed to be popular way back 
when, but 8 1 N these days, and reply is based solely on a time interval 
after the end of the master's end of packet).



My problem is, if I understand it correctly, that the Toshiba
protocol  a) uses a higher voltage than any of the standard
protocols,


RS232 uses a higher voltage (12V ?) than RS485.

 b) is inverted—though I’m not sure what the implications
are of that —, 


RS485 manufactures have not implemented A and B signals consistently, so 
I just try to reverse them to see what happens.


and c) is single-ended instead of differential. I hope

to fix this with a few resistors and inverters.
RS232 is single ended, RS485 is balanced (A and B wires) but also may 
need a signal common or ground wire to keep the common mode voltage 
within reason. So 1 pair plus one wire with over all shield (grouned on 
one end) seems to be the ideal cable (Belden 3106a cable, pricey). A 120 
Ohm termination resistor(s) may be needed but short runs should work 
without it.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-485


My guess is that Toshiba would tend to stick to the standard since other 
devices could be on the same bus.


It looks like the VFD needs a fair amount of programming from the front 
panel to get the Modbus RTU/RS484 port setup?



https://www.toshiba.com/tic/datafiles/S11_Communications_Manual_Rev.3_6565.pdf


Recently, I got three different USB to RS232 adapters and the DeTech was 
the only one that mostly worked out of the box. One didn't work at all. 
Another needed A and B switched and was flaky. My guess is that getting 
an oscilloscope out and playing with the software and hardware 
configuration might get the other two working.



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Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[Thaddeus Waldner]

I plan to use the VF-s11 driver. I actually have it loading successfully in my 
Hal and Ini setup  and connecting to the usb-rs485 device but all that it can 
do so far is count transmission errors.  My problem is, if I understand it 
correctly, that the Toshiba protocol  a) uses a higher voltage than any of the 
standard protocols, b) is inverted—though I’m not sure what the implications 
are of that —, and c) is single-ended instead of differential. I hope to fix 
this with a few resistors and inverters.

Thaddeus Waldner

From: Kirk Wallace 
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2019 1:14 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

On 1/28/19 1:57 PM, Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a small machine with spindle motor driven by a Toshiba VFS-11
> vfd. I currently have a forward and reverse signal controlling the
> drive but I need to be able to control the speed. From what I’ve
> seen, this drive connects digitally via the modus protocol, and
> someone actually wrote a driver for this drive for LinuxCNC. Can
> someone direct me to a list of instructions on how to get it set up
> that way?

Here is a link in case you haven't seen this yet:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/vfs11.html

also maybe:
> https://libmodbus.org/docs/v3.1.4/

> http://modbus.org/tech.php

This seems to work with the least fuss:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/19951008



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Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[Kirk Wallace]

On 1/28/19 1:57 PM, Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

Hi,

I have a small machine with spindle motor driven by a Toshiba VFS-11
vfd. I currently have a forward and reverse signal controlling the
drive but I need to be able to control the speed. From what I’ve
seen, this drive connects digitally via the modus protocol, and
someone actually wrote a driver for this drive for LinuxCNC. Can
someone direct me to a list of instructions on how to get it set up
that way?


Here is a link in case you haven't seen this yet:

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/drivers/vfs11.html


also maybe:

https://libmodbus.org/docs/v3.1.4/



http://modbus.org/tech.php


This seems to work with the least fuss:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19951008




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Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 03 March 2019 12:25:46 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> The connector to the inverter is an RJ45, so you can hook the two
> together with a standard cat5/6 patch cable.
>
> My interface cards are a MESA 7i96 with a 7i73 on the serial expansion
> port. It would be nice to somehow have a UART device on either of
> those cards and if you know of a way to do this, let me know. But as
> was pointed out to me earlier, the VF-s11 driver is not a realtime
> component anyway, so a usb-rs323 should work too.
>
> Here’s  another question; is the inverted signal between the schmitt
> inverter and the max232 standard TTL UART signal? And if so, can I not
> skip the rs232 signal  and connect it directly up to a USB-UART
> device?
>
That can be made to work also, given enough time.  It sounds like Bruce 
Lane has done more of that than I have, so he may be a better source of 
info. You may need a decent triggered scope to detect the finer points.

> Thaddeus Waldner
>
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2019 3:44 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver
>
> On Sunday 03 March 2019 01:22:51 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> > Maybe there was not so much dweeb in the Toshiba marketing
> > department as there was ignorance in the hobbyist integrator
> >
> > It turns out they don’t call the port an RS485 port; they call it a
> > Toshiba Inverter Protocol port. They sell converters that converts
> > the Toshiba port to either RS232 or RS485. These cost about $130 on
> > ebay, which I don’t necessarily want to spend. I found this;
> > http://static.mah.priv.at/cnc/vfs11-rs232.pdf
> >
> > Can you or anyone enlighten me as to what is taking place with the
> > Schmitt trigger inverter and MAX232 chips? The the toshiba protocol
> > does not appear to use differential signals.
>
> A Schmitt trigger is a chip that doesn't have a middle trigger
> voltage, but a higher on voltage and a lower level logic zero output,
> commonly used as a noise filter because it ignores up to a volt of
> random noise. The max232 is a level translator designed to to pump a 5
> volt "ttl" logic signal up to a + or - 12volt swing to feed a serial
> data train up to the voltages commonly used for rs232 communications.
>
> They may want $130 for it, but that little pcb actually contains maybe
> $6 in parts. Looks like a db9 connector is used at one end and a card
> edge must be assumed at the bottom of that drawing, probably plugging
> into a card edge socket in the vfd. And you would talk to the vfd, in
> all likelyhood using the std 7 wire flow protocol, built into most any
> pc with a seriel port. Those are vanishing critters though so you may
> have to use a usb to serial converter at the pc end.
>
> To a C.E.T., and I am one, there's no magic in that circuit, its
> simply makeing an rs232 compatible signal for the db9 from a ttl level
> signal and doing it bidirectionally. Take a look on ebay and if you
> recognize the jargon, you can get a bag of 10 of them for less than a
> $20 bill. 6+ weeks for delivery from China though. You need a "ttl to
> rs232 convertor", and you'll probably need to adapt the lower end of
> it to the socket it connects to in the vfd. That 24 volts you found
> could be 5 volts, but 24 is what the vfd supplies. So you may have to
> add that 7805 regulator thats makeing 5 volts for the rest of this
> convertor from the 24 the vfd supplies. That could be on the card edge
> adaptor you'll have to make.
>
> Whose interfacing card are you going to use?
>
> Some of the mesa stuff has all those signals shown hitting the db9 on
> terminal connectors, bypassing the need for the db9 connector, you
> just strip the wire, stick it into the terminal and tighten the screw.
>
> > Thaddeus Waldner
> > 
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 5:31 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver
> >
> > On Saturday 02 March 2019 17:47:26 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> > > I get 24v on one wire, zero on all of the rest.
> >
> > Thats not a legal voltage on any pin of an rs485 connection. Some
> > marketing dweeb is playing fast and loose with the jargon IMO.
> >
> > Its (rs485) a balanced differential signal where one wire is
> > compared to the other to determine the logic state. Because most
> > noise is longitudinal, meaning its identical on both wires,
> > comparing two noisy wires is a good way to get extreme noise
> > immunity. I haven't personally used the circuit for that, but I made
> > the mistake of buying an encoder with differential outputs on 6
> > wires. Feeding that encoder a/b to a pair of diff to ttl gismo's
> > sold as an rs485 interface you can get for about a dollar a copy on
> > ebay, I made perfect ttl signals out of that encoder at close to a
> > 100 kilohertz. fed as single ended to an encoder in a mesa 5i25,
> > linuxcnc loved it. I think that it was intended to run on 12 

Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[Ralph Stirling]

That circuit *is* a TTL-UART converter, with the important addition of 
a resistor voltage divider, as apparently they use 24v logic on the 
Toshiba->RS232
direction at least.  It would appear that on the RS232->Toshiba direction
their logic (0-1) threshold is low enough that a standard TTL signal (from the 
74HCT14)
will drive it.

-- Ralph

From: Thaddeus Waldner [thadw...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2019 9:25 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

The connector to the inverter is an RJ45, so you can hook the two together with 
a standard cat5/6 patch cable.

My interface cards are a MESA 7i96 with a 7i73 on the serial expansion port. It 
would be nice to somehow have a UART device on either of those cards and if you 
know of a way to do this, let me know.
But as was pointed out to me earlier, the VF-s11 driver is not a realtime 
component anyway, so a usb-rs323 should work too.

Here’s  another question; is the inverted signal between the schmitt inverter 
and the max232 standard TTL UART signal? And if so, can I not skip the rs232 
signal  and connect it directly up to a USB-UART device?

Thaddeus Waldner

From: Gene Heskett 
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2019 3:44 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

On Sunday 03 March 2019 01:22:51 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> Maybe there was not so much dweeb in the Toshiba marketing department
> as there was ignorance in the hobbyist integrator
>
> It turns out they don’t call the port an RS485 port; they call it a
> Toshiba Inverter Protocol port. They sell converters that converts the
> Toshiba port to either RS232 or RS485. These cost about $130 on ebay,
> which I don’t necessarily want to spend. I found this;
> http://static.mah.priv.at/cnc/vfs11-rs232.pdf
>
> Can you or anyone enlighten me as to what is taking place with the
> Schmitt trigger inverter and MAX232 chips? The the toshiba protocol
> does not appear to use differential signals.
>
A Schmitt trigger is a chip that doesn't have a middle trigger voltage,
but a higher on voltage and a lower level logic zero output, commonly
used as a noise filter because it ignores up to a volt of random noise.
The max232 is a level translator designed to to pump a 5 volt "ttl"
logic signal up to a + or - 12volt swing to feed a serial data train up
to the voltages commonly used for rs232 communications.

They may want $130 for it, but that little pcb actually contains maybe $6
in parts. Looks like a db9 connector is used at one end and a card edge
must be assumed at the bottom of that drawing, probably plugging into a
card edge socket in the vfd. And you would talk to the vfd, in all
likelyhood using the std 7 wire flow protocol, built into most any pc
with a seriel port. Those are vanishing critters though so you may have
to use a usb to serial converter at the pc end.

To a C.E.T., and I am one, there's no magic in that circuit, its simply
makeing an rs232 compatible signal for the db9 from a ttl level signal
and doing it bidirectionally. Take a look on ebay and if you recognize
the jargon, you can get a bag of 10 of them for less than a $20 bill. 6+
weeks for delivery from China though. You need a "ttl to rs232
convertor", and you'll probably need to adapt the lower end of it to the
socket it connects to in the vfd. That 24 volts you found could be 5
volts, but 24 is what the vfd supplies. So you may have to add that
7805 regulator thats makeing 5 volts for the rest of this convertor from
the 24 the vfd supplies. That could be on the card edge adaptor you'll
have to make.

Whose interfacing card are you going to use?

Some of the mesa stuff has all those signals shown hitting the db9 on
terminal connectors, bypassing the need for the db9 connector, you just
strip the wire, stick it into the terminal and tighten the screw.

> Thaddeus Waldner
> 
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 5:31 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver
>
> On Saturday 02 March 2019 17:47:26 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> > I get 24v on one wire, zero on all of the rest.
>
> Thats not a legal voltage on any pin of an rs485 connection. Some
> marketing dweeb is playing fast and loose with the jargon IMO.
>
> Its (rs485) a balanced differential signal where one wire is compared
> to the other to determine the logic state. Because most noise is
> longitudinal, meaning its identical on both wires, comparing two noisy
> wires is a good way to get extreme noise immunity. I haven't
> personally used the circuit for that, but I made the mistake of buying
> an encoder with differential outputs on 6 wires. Feeding that encoder
> a/b to a pair of diff to ttl gismo's sold as an rs485 interface you
> can get for about a dollar a copy on ebay, I made perfect ttl signals
> out of that encoder at close to a 100 kilohertz. fed as 

Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[Thaddeus Waldner]

The connector to the inverter is an RJ45, so you can hook the two together with 
a standard cat5/6 patch cable.

My interface cards are a MESA 7i96 with a 7i73 on the serial expansion port. It 
would be nice to somehow have a UART device on either of those cards and if you 
know of a way to do this, let me know.
But as was pointed out to me earlier, the VF-s11 driver is not a realtime 
component anyway, so a usb-rs323 should work too.

Here’s  another question; is the inverted signal between the schmitt inverter 
and the max232 standard TTL UART signal? And if so, can I not skip the rs232 
signal  and connect it directly up to a USB-UART device?

Thaddeus Waldner

From: Gene Heskett 
Sent: Sunday, March 3, 2019 3:44 AM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

On Sunday 03 March 2019 01:22:51 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> Maybe there was not so much dweeb in the Toshiba marketing department
> as there was ignorance in the hobbyist integrator
>
> It turns out they don’t call the port an RS485 port; they call it a
> Toshiba Inverter Protocol port. They sell converters that converts the
> Toshiba port to either RS232 or RS485. These cost about $130 on ebay,
> which I don’t necessarily want to spend. I found this;
> http://static.mah.priv.at/cnc/vfs11-rs232.pdf
>
> Can you or anyone enlighten me as to what is taking place with the
> Schmitt trigger inverter and MAX232 chips? The the toshiba protocol
> does not appear to use differential signals.
>
A Schmitt trigger is a chip that doesn't have a middle trigger voltage,
but a higher on voltage and a lower level logic zero output, commonly
used as a noise filter because it ignores up to a volt of random noise.
The max232 is a level translator designed to to pump a 5 volt "ttl"
logic signal up to a + or - 12volt swing to feed a serial data train up
to the voltages commonly used for rs232 communications.

They may want $130 for it, but that little pcb actually contains maybe $6
in parts. Looks like a db9 connector is used at one end and a card edge
must be assumed at the bottom of that drawing, probably plugging into a
card edge socket in the vfd. And you would talk to the vfd, in all
likelyhood using the std 7 wire flow protocol, built into most any pc
with a seriel port. Those are vanishing critters though so you may have
to use a usb to serial converter at the pc end.

To a C.E.T., and I am one, there's no magic in that circuit, its simply
makeing an rs232 compatible signal for the db9 from a ttl level signal
and doing it bidirectionally. Take a look on ebay and if you recognize
the jargon, you can get a bag of 10 of them for less than a $20 bill. 6+
weeks for delivery from China though. You need a "ttl to rs232
convertor", and you'll probably need to adapt the lower end of it to the
socket it connects to in the vfd. That 24 volts you found could be 5
volts, but 24 is what the vfd supplies. So you may have to add that
7805 regulator thats makeing 5 volts for the rest of this convertor from
the 24 the vfd supplies. That could be on the card edge adaptor you'll
have to make.

Whose interfacing card are you going to use?

Some of the mesa stuff has all those signals shown hitting the db9 on
terminal connectors, bypassing the need for the db9 connector, you just
strip the wire, stick it into the terminal and tighten the screw.

> Thaddeus Waldner
> 
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 5:31 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver
>
> On Saturday 02 March 2019 17:47:26 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> > I get 24v on one wire, zero on all of the rest.
>
> Thats not a legal voltage on any pin of an rs485 connection. Some
> marketing dweeb is playing fast and loose with the jargon IMO.
>
> Its (rs485) a balanced differential signal where one wire is compared
> to the other to determine the logic state. Because most noise is
> longitudinal, meaning its identical on both wires, comparing two noisy
> wires is a good way to get extreme noise immunity. I haven't
> personally used the circuit for that, but I made the mistake of buying
> an encoder with differential outputs on 6 wires. Feeding that encoder
> a/b to a pair of diff to ttl gismo's sold as an rs485 interface you
> can get for about a dollar a copy on ebay, I made perfect ttl signals
> out of that encoder at close to a 100 kilohertz. fed as single ended
> to an encoder in a mesa 5i25, linuxcnc loved it. I think that it was
> intended to run on 12 volts, but its happy as a clam on 5 volts and
> has been for a year now. The actual signal wires are sitting at about
> 2 volts, have about a 200 mv signal on each wire from the omron
> encoder. I had to wire them up as one way, though they can be full
> duplex on those 2 wires. Someone else with wider experience than I
> might be able to help. All my experience with vfd's has been with
> direct controls, not all of which has worked.
>
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[Dan Bloomquist]

Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

Maybe there was not so much dweeb in the Toshiba marketing department as there 
was ignorance in the hobbyist integrator

It turns out they don’t call the port an RS485 port; they call it a Toshiba 
Inverter Protocol port. They sell converters that converts the Toshiba port to 
either RS232 or RS485. These cost about $130 on ebay, which I don’t necessarily 
want to spend.
I found this;
http://static.mah.priv.at/cnc/vfs11-rs232.pdf


I would mention that I bought a hand full of these for a project a few 
years ago.



You can find like a 10 pack for $10, that is what I bought.. They are 
still in service working on a 300 foot link to this day. At a buck a 
piece, so much of the work is done.

Best, Dan.



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 03 March 2019 01:22:51 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> Maybe there was not so much dweeb in the Toshiba marketing department
> as there was ignorance in the hobbyist integrator
>
> It turns out they don’t call the port an RS485 port; they call it a
> Toshiba Inverter Protocol port. They sell converters that converts the
> Toshiba port to either RS232 or RS485. These cost about $130 on ebay,
> which I don’t necessarily want to spend. I found this;
> http://static.mah.priv.at/cnc/vfs11-rs232.pdf
>
> Can you or anyone enlighten me as to what is taking place with the
> Schmitt trigger inverter and MAX232 chips? The the toshiba protocol
> does not appear to use differential signals.
>
A Schmitt trigger is a chip that doesn't have a middle trigger voltage, 
but a higher on voltage and a lower level logic zero output, commonly 
used as a noise filter because it ignores up to a volt of random noise. 
The max232 is a level translator designed to to pump a 5 volt "ttl" 
logic signal up to a + or - 12volt swing to feed a serial data train up 
to the voltages commonly used for rs232 communications.

They may want $130 for it, but that little pcb actually contains maybe $6 
in parts. Looks like a db9 connector is used at one end and a card edge 
must be assumed at the bottom of that drawing, probably plugging into a 
card edge socket in the vfd.  And you would talk to the vfd, in all 
likelyhood using the std 7 wire flow protocol, built into most any pc 
with a seriel port. Those are vanishing critters though so you may have 
to use a usb to serial converter at the pc end.

To a C.E.T., and I am one, there's no magic in that circuit, its simply 
makeing an rs232 compatible signal for the db9 from a ttl level signal 
and doing it bidirectionally.  Take a look on ebay and if you recognize 
the jargon, you can get a bag of 10 of them for less than a $20 bill. 6+ 
weeks for delivery from China though.  You need a "ttl to rs232 
convertor", and you'll probably need to adapt the lower end of it to the 
socket it connects to in the vfd. That 24 volts you found could be 5 
volts, but 24 is what the vfd supplies.  So you may have to add that 
7805 regulator thats makeing 5 volts for the rest of this convertor from 
the 24 the vfd supplies. That could be on the card edge adaptor you'll 
have to make.

Whose interfacing card are you going to use?

Some of the mesa stuff has all those signals shown hitting the db9 on 
terminal connectors, bypassing the need for the db9 connector, you just 
strip the wire, stick it into the terminal and tighten the screw.

> Thaddeus Waldner
> 
> From: Gene Heskett 
> Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 5:31 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver
>
> On Saturday 02 March 2019 17:47:26 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> > I get 24v on one wire, zero on all of the rest.
>
> Thats not a legal voltage on any pin of an rs485 connection. Some
> marketing dweeb is playing fast and loose with the jargon IMO.
>
> Its (rs485) a balanced differential signal where one wire is compared
> to the other to determine the logic state. Because most noise is
> longitudinal, meaning its identical on both wires, comparing two noisy
> wires is a good way to get extreme noise immunity. I haven't
> personally used the circuit for that, but I made the mistake of buying
> an encoder with differential outputs on 6 wires. Feeding that encoder
> a/b to a pair of diff to ttl gismo's sold as an rs485 interface you
> can get for about a dollar a copy on ebay, I made perfect ttl signals
> out of that encoder at close to a 100 kilohertz. fed as single ended
> to an encoder in a mesa 5i25, linuxcnc loved it. I think that it was
> intended to run on 12 volts, but its happy as a clam on 5 volts and
> has been for a year now. The actual signal wires are sitting at about
> 2 volts, have about a 200 mv signal on each wire from the omron
> encoder. I had to wire them up as one way, though they can be full
> duplex on those 2 wires. Someone else with wider experience than I
> might be able to help. All my experience with vfd's has been with
> direct controls, not all of which has worked.
>
> > Thaddeus Waldner
> > Newdale School
> > Elkton, SD 57026
> >
> > 
> > From: Gene Heskett 
> > Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2019 8:48 AM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver
> >
> > On Saturday 02 March 2019 08:31:57 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> > > I purchased a usb RS485 port that looks similar to the one you
> > > have. I have the VF-s11 driver successfully loading and exposing
> > > its HAL pins. The HAL pins are connected and are switching with my
> > > spindle start-stop commands. I have also set the baud rate,
> > > parity, number of bits, stop bits, and target where applicable in
> > > both the .ini file and on the inverter panel.
> > >
> > > And I get nothing.
> > >
> > > I wonder if i’m not