Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[John Dammeyer]

> From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
> Hi John,
> 
> 
> On 6/13/21 8:03 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > Ron,
> > Ethernet from your PC to the 7i92H which has two 26 pin headers.  Ribbon 
> > cable from that to 25pin DB-25.  Male or Female
> depending on your Break Out Board.  Mine plugs into the PMDX-126 and a far 
> east Cheap BoB because the PMDX126 doesn't bring
> out all the outputs on the second port.
> 
> So let's see if I get it.
> 
> 
> On the PC side an ethernet card is used,� that connects to that
> breakoutboard, your PMDX-126, that in turn connects to the� MESA board,
> 7i92H, with a 25 pin db25, and the mesa card runs the stepper drivers,�
> am I on track here?
> 

Not quite.  
1. The PC motherboard has Ethernet already so no extra card needed.  
2. From there the regular Ethernet cable goes to the MESA 7i92H which also 
needs 5V. 
3. From the MESA 7i92H two ribbon cables with parallel port type DB25P go from 
the 7i92H to the PMDX126 and a far east BoB I bought through Aliexpress for $4. 
4. The BoB connects to the motor drivers, switches relays etc.




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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[Milosz K.]

I should have said that the 7i92 performs the same function as the PCI
card. Since it's interface is Ethernet you can't just pop it into the PCI
bus. Yes, you can talk to the 7i92 with just a plain network card or on
board port from the PC. So it would be NIC->7i92->BOB->machine.

The 7i92 still needs a BOB as it shouldn't connect to hardware directly.
You could use a 7i92 and your existing BOB or if you want to scrap your
current BOB, you could use a 7i96 which is basically a 7i92 & a BOB all in
one package. A 7i96 would be NIC->7i96-> machine

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 10:29 PM R C  wrote:

>
> On 6/13/21 8:14 PM, Milosz K. wrote:
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> > The MESA card, 7i92 as we are talking about in this case would replace
> your
> > failed PCI card.
>
> Uhm, I thought that would be an ethernet card?
>
> > We might need a bit more info on how you have the 2 machines wired and
> > implemented in your present config to suggest the correct MESA solution.
>
> well,  Originally the machines came in an Paxton/Patterson enclosure,
> with "optistep" electronics,  which is basically a parallel port
> "thing"  but the pinouts are all different.  The opti step has "onboard"
> simple  stepperdrivers.
>
>
> What I did in both, is replaced the electronics (optistep), by using
> stepperdrivers (like those DM542 ones), and used a parallel port DB25
> BOB/breakout to connect it to a PC with a PCI parallel port card.
>
>
> I don't mind at all throwing out the PCI card, BOB and use a mesa card
> to drive the stepper drivers.  and if I can talk to the/a MESA card
> with a regulat ethernet card, that would be great.
>
>
> So basically,  I might just replace "everything" between the PC and the
> stepper drivers (DM542)  if that makes sense.
>
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 10:06 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Ron,
> >> Ethernet from your PC to the 7i92H which has two 26 pin headers.  Ribbon
> >> cable from that to 25pin DB-25.  Male or Female depending on your Break
> Out
> >> Board.  Mine plugs into the PMDX-126 and a far east Cheap BoB because
> the
> >> PMDX126 doesn't bring out all the outputs on the second port.
> >>
> >> If the picture makes it through the 7i92H is sitting on the bottom of
> the
> >> cabinet at the left and a ribbon cable up to the PMDX126.  Or I plugged
> in
> >> the parallel port cable sitting loose on the right.
> >>
> >> It's that easy.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
> >>> Sent: June-13-21 6:55 PM
> >>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think
> >>>
> >>> Hi Ralph,
> >>>
> >>> well th ebreakout, BOB, has these buffered ports..� and it sounds like
> >>> I'd still need a parallel port?� The configuration, bitfile,� would
> that
> >>> be a linuxcnc thing?
> >>>
> >>> (as I mentioned� previous;y,� I wouldn't mind� leaving parallel PCI
> >>> cards behind, and use something ethernet (if those are regular ethernet
> >>> cards?)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> thanks,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ron
> >>>
> >>> On 6/13/21 7:19 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:
>  A 7i92 could run twelve steppers full speed.  You load the logic
> >> configuration you want ("bitfile") for your application.  It could have
> >>> the same pinout as your parallel port to plug right into your existing
> >> breakout, but run your steppers much smoother and faster.
>  -- Ralph
> 
>  On Jun 13, 2021 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
>  CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University
> >> email system.
> 
>  I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the
>  parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
>  harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
>  controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).
> 
>  I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple
> >> stepper motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that
> >>> connects to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual
> >> steppers.)
>  thanks,
> 
>  Ron
> 
>  On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
> > I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot
> >> (which has LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might
> >>> be plug-play with pre-build .bit files to configure the Mesa card.
> > My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical
> >> grounding issues. Had too many of those in the past with
> >>> direct connected stuff. It also expands the choice of PC to run
> LinuxCNC
> >> on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot this way.
> > Gerrit
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: R C 
> > Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
> > To: linuxcnc-users-list 
> > Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> > I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using 

Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[R C]

On 6/13/21 8:14 PM, Milosz K. wrote:

Hi Ron,

The MESA card, 7i92 as we are talking about in this case would replace your
failed PCI card.


Uhm, I thought that would be an ethernet card?


We might need a bit more info on how you have the 2 machines wired and
implemented in your present config to suggest the correct MESA solution.


well,  Originally the machines came in an Paxton/Patterson enclosure,  
with "optistep" electronics,  which is basically a parallel port 
"thing"  but the pinouts are all different.  The opti step has "onboard" 
simple  stepperdrivers.



What I did in both, is replaced the electronics (optistep), by using 
stepperdrivers (like those DM542 ones), and used a parallel port DB25 
BOB/breakout to connect it to a PC with a PCI parallel port card.



I don't mind at all throwing out the PCI card, BOB and use a mesa card 
to drive the stepper drivers.  and if I can talk to the/a MESA card  
with a regulat ethernet card, that would be great.



So basically,  I might just replace "everything" between the PC and the 
stepper drivers (DM542)  if that makes sense.




Ron






On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 10:06 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:


Ron,
Ethernet from your PC to the 7i92H which has two 26 pin headers.  Ribbon
cable from that to 25pin DB-25.  Male or Female depending on your Break Out
Board.  Mine plugs into the PMDX-126 and a far east Cheap BoB because the
PMDX126 doesn't bring out all the outputs on the second port.

If the picture makes it through the 7i92H is sitting on the bottom of the
cabinet at the left and a ribbon cable up to the PMDX126.  Or I plugged in
the parallel port cable sitting loose on the right.

It's that easy.

John



-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: June-13-21 6:55 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hi Ralph,

well th ebreakout, BOB, has these buffered ports..� and it sounds like
I'd still need a parallel port?� The configuration, bitfile,� would that
be a linuxcnc thing?

(as I mentioned� previous;y,� I wouldn't mind� leaving parallel PCI
cards behind, and use something ethernet (if those are regular ethernet
cards?)


thanks,


Ron

On 6/13/21 7:19 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:

A 7i92 could run twelve steppers full speed.  You load the logic

configuration you want ("bitfile") for your application.  It could have

the same pinout as your parallel port to plug right into your existing

breakout, but run your steppers much smoother and faster.

-- Ralph

On Jun 13, 2021 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University

email system.


I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple

stepper motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that

connects to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual

steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot

(which has LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might

be plug-play with pre-build .bit files to configure the Mesa card.

My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical

grounding issues. Had too many of those in the past with

direct connected stuff. It also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC

on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a

parallel BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of

them just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are

harder to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these

things are desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for

fun, I am not trying to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I

am mostly turning stock into scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the

ones that use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet

cards used with

those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature

encoder,  the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a

quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[R C]

Hi John,


On 6/13/21 8:03 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

Ron,
Ethernet from your PC to the 7i92H which has two 26 pin headers.  Ribbon cable 
from that to 25pin DB-25.  Male or Female depending on your Break Out Board.  
Mine plugs into the PMDX-126 and a far east Cheap BoB because the PMDX126 
doesn't bring out all the outputs on the second port.


So let's see if I get it.


On the PC side an ethernet card is used,  that connects to that 
breakoutboard, your PMDX-126, that in turn connects to the  MESA board, 
7i92H, with a 25 pin db25, and the mesa card runs the stepper drivers,  
am I on track here?






If the picture makes it through the 7i92H is sitting on the bottom of the 
cabinet at the left and a ribbon cable up to the PMDX126.  Or I plugged in the 
parallel port cable sitting loose on the right.
yes picture made it through.  It looks easy enough,  I just never used  
MESA cards, but it looks like that is a better options.  I can ut the  
cards in the enclosure,  and the just run a cat5/6 to it, which is a lot 
easier.


It's that easy.

John


thanks,


Ron








-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: June-13-21 6:55 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hi Ralph,

well th ebreakout, BOB, has these buffered ports..� and it sounds like
I'd still need a parallel port?� The configuration, bitfile,� would that
be a linuxcnc thing?

(as I mentioned� previous;y,� I wouldn't mind� leaving parallel PCI
cards behind, and use something ethernet (if those are regular ethernet
cards?)


thanks,


Ron

On 6/13/21 7:19 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:

A 7i92 could run twelve steppers full speed.  You load the logic configuration you want 
("bitfile") for your application.  It could have

the same pinout as your parallel port to plug right into your existing 
breakout, but run your steppers much smoother and faster.

-- Ralph

On Jun 13, 2021 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that

connects to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might

be plug-play with pre-build .bit files to configure the Mesa card.

My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with

direct connected stuff. It also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, 
doesn't need a pci or pcie slot this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of

them just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder 
to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for

fun, I am not trying to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am 
mostly turning stock into scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet

cards used with

those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a

quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Wow, that escalated quickly! LOL.

Well, I've been reading everyone and I guess I'll stay with the normal PC
architecture for now. I'm not doubting about the capabilities of the Rpi
but really don't have that much time to play around with it.


El dom, 13 jun 2021 a las 20:45, Bari () escribió:

> On 6/13/21 2:49 PM, Feral Engineer wrote:
>
> > Anyone trying to push a grbl box over Linuxcnc clearly has their head in
> a
> > rather unmentionable place.
> >
> > As someone who has worked in the machine tool industry for nearly 2
> > decades, I've found Linuxcnc to be comparable to many "industrial" grade
> > controls, like fanuc, mitsubishi meldas and siemens from both
> configuration
> > and operation standpoint.
> >
> > No CNC control is perfect, but the countless hours the developers have
> put
> > into lcnc out of their sheer dedication to the product shouldn't be
> written
> > off and for a feature that isn't yet implemented, the openness of the
> > software allows you to choose your own destiny with how you want it to
> look
> > and operate.
> >
> > Show me grbl support for PLC/ladder, show me grbl support for 5 axis
> > kinematics or ATC circuits, show me grbl support for any code that
> ventures
> > away from G0 and G1.
> >
> >
> The only issue I've had with the Rpi4 with 2Gb or 4GB of RAM has been
> with stable 4K video using the LCNC Buster ISO or Raspian. It might be a
> lucky combo of cables and monitors that cause the video to lose sync
> every now and then. But when I try to use it with a 4K projector for DLP
> resin printing the loss of signal for even a second triggers the
> firmware in the projector to display text on the projector that signal
> was lost and then display the projector brand, which in turn ruins the
> print since the display is the tool.
>
> The problem went away when I used a Gentoo image for the Rpi4
> https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi-64bit
>
> I didn't compare all the differences between the drivers and configs for
> Gentoo vs Buster and Raspian to see what the Gentoo dev was getting
> right. It might have even been its firmware settings.
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[Milosz K.]

Hi Ron,

The MESA card, 7i92 as we are talking about in this case would replace your
failed PCI card.

We might need a bit more info on how you have the 2 machines wired and
implemented in your present config to suggest the correct MESA solution.

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 10:06 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> Ron,
> Ethernet from your PC to the 7i92H which has two 26 pin headers.  Ribbon
> cable from that to 25pin DB-25.  Male or Female depending on your Break Out
> Board.  Mine plugs into the PMDX-126 and a far east Cheap BoB because the
> PMDX126 doesn't bring out all the outputs on the second port.
>
> If the picture makes it through the 7i92H is sitting on the bottom of the
> cabinet at the left and a ribbon cable up to the PMDX126.  Or I plugged in
> the parallel port cable sitting loose on the right.
>
> It's that easy.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: June-13-21 6:55 PM
> > To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think
> >
> > Hi Ralph,
> >
> > well th ebreakout, BOB, has these buffered ports..� and it sounds like
> > I'd still need a parallel port?� The configuration, bitfile,� would that
> > be a linuxcnc thing?
> >
> > (as I mentioned� previous;y,� I wouldn't mind� leaving parallel PCI
> > cards behind, and use something ethernet (if those are regular ethernet
> > cards?)
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> >
> > Ron
> >
> > On 6/13/21 7:19 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:
> > > A 7i92 could run twelve steppers full speed.  You load the logic
> configuration you want ("bitfile") for your application.  It could have
> > the same pinout as your parallel port to plug right into your existing
> breakout, but run your steppers much smoother and faster.
> > >
> > > -- Ralph
> > >
> > > On Jun 13, 2021 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
> > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University
> email system.
> > >
> > >
> > > I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the
> > > parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
> > > harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
> > > controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).
> > >
> > > I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple
> stepper motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that
> > connects to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual
> steppers.)
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > >
> > > Ron
> > >
> > > On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
> > >> I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot
> (which has LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might
> > be plug-play with pre-build .bit files to configure the Mesa card.
> > >> My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical
> grounding issues. Had too many of those in the past with
> > direct connected stuff. It also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC
> on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot this way.
> > >>
> > >> Gerrit
> > >>
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: R C 
> > >> Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
> > >> To: linuxcnc-users-list 
> > >> Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think
> > >>
> > >> Hello,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a
> parallel BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of
> > them just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are
> harder to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these
> things are desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for
> > fun, I am not trying to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I
> am mostly turning stock into scrap).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the
> ones that use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet
> > cards used with
> > >> those?)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature
> encoder,  the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a
> > quadrature encoder).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> thanks,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Ron
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
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> > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >>
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> >
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> > ved=0
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Emc-users mailing list
> > >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > >>
> 

Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[R C]

Hi John,

On 6/13/21 7:58 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

RC,
If you go back and look at the message I posted today at 1AM the attached photo 
shows the MESA 7i92H connected with a ribbon cable to a small Probotix BoB and 
a DB-25 cable to a bunch of switches.


I'll have to dig through the trash can for that.




The PIN file I'm using is attached to this posting. The first part shows that 
the FPGA is configured by the .bit file to have
2 PWM channels
2 Quadrature channels
10 StepGen Channels.

The second half of the file shows a table with column 1 showing how the DB-25 
pins are connected.
The pins marked None are simple Inputs or outputs depending on the PP standard.

The StepGen is set up as Charge Pump on the conventional DB25 pin 17
Estop input on Pin 10
Machine or System enable output on Pin1

Any of the predefined modules do not have to be used and instead can be I/O.
At the moment on the first DB-25 (P2 on the 7i92) I am using 11,12,13 as the 
Home/Limit and on pin 15 Shared 3 axis limits on the other end of the home 
switch instead of the encoder.

The StepGen modules start at #0 and are assigned sequentially so you can't use 
StepGen 1 as outputs and then continue with StepGen 2 as another stepper 
source.  So normally what one would do is:
StepGen0 = X axis  DB25.1-2,3 for step,dir
StepGen1 = Y axis  DB25.1-4,5 for step,dir
StepGen2 = Z axis  DB25.1-6,7 for step,dir
StepGen3 = A axis  DB25.1-8,9 for step,dir

And you can see in this pin file there is no stepgen4 Direction output because 
it's used as the charge pump.
If you have a B or C rotary axis then the second port would use
StepGen5 = B axis DB25.2-2,3 for step/dir

The rest of the outputs like 4..9 can be used for Coolant etc.

I'm not sure since I've used quadrature #0 pins 11..13 on DB25.1 as Input 
whether the quadrature #1 can be used for quadrature.  My intention is to 
repurpose those pins to the spindle anyway and move the limit switches over to 
the second port.


but the counting of the encoder is done by that MESA card, correct?




I no longer have the need to keep this a dual boot WIN/Linux system that can 
still run from parallel ports.


I use an older Dell for that, just running Linux.




Thing is this is just one .pin file configuration.  There are others that have 
other features or are organized differently.  So first make a map of what your 
DB25's are organized as.  Then take a look at the various 7i92 pin files and 
find the closest one.  If you need more I/O there are other MESA expansion 
cards that use a Smart Serial module in the pin file on a couple of the header 
pins.  They then wouldn't be available to the DB-25 of course.


well..   I could use DB25/par ports again,  but had one break, and they 
are harder to come by, so I was thinking that ethernet would be an 
option where it's easier to find parts for?




Hope that helps.

it does..

John Dammeyer


Ron






-Original Message-
From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
Sent: June-13-21 6:13 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,� part of my problem is that the
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
harder to get.� So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that
connects to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be

plug-play with pre-build .bit files to configure the Mesa card.

My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct

connected stuff. It also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't 
need a pci or pcie slot this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of

them just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder 
to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun,

I am not trying to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly 
turning stock into scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet

cards used with

those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and 

Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[John Dammeyer]

RC,
If you go back and look at the message I posted today at 1AM the attached photo 
shows the MESA 7i92H connected with a ribbon cable to a small Probotix BoB and 
a DB-25 cable to a bunch of switches.

The PIN file I'm using is attached to this posting. The first part shows that 
the FPGA is configured by the .bit file to have
2 PWM channels 
2 Quadrature channels
10 StepGen Channels.

The second half of the file shows a table with column 1 showing how the DB-25 
pins are connected.
The pins marked None are simple Inputs or outputs depending on the PP standard.

The StepGen is set up as Charge Pump on the conventional DB25 pin 17
Estop input on Pin 10
Machine or System enable output on Pin1

Any of the predefined modules do not have to be used and instead can be I/O.
At the moment on the first DB-25 (P2 on the 7i92) I am using 11,12,13 as the 
Home/Limit and on pin 15 Shared 3 axis limits on the other end of the home 
switch instead of the encoder.

The StepGen modules start at #0 and are assigned sequentially so you can't use 
StepGen 1 as outputs and then continue with StepGen 2 as another stepper 
source.  So normally what one would do is:
StepGen0 = X axis  DB25.1-2,3 for step,dir
StepGen1 = Y axis  DB25.1-4,5 for step,dir
StepGen2 = Z axis  DB25.1-6,7 for step,dir
StepGen3 = A axis  DB25.1-8,9 for step,dir

And you can see in this pin file there is no stepgen4 Direction output because 
it's used as the charge pump.
If you have a B or C rotary axis then the second port would use 
StepGen5 = B axis DB25.2-2,3 for step/dir

The rest of the outputs like 4..9 can be used for Coolant etc. 

I'm not sure since I've used quadrature #0 pins 11..13 on DB25.1 as Input 
whether the quadrature #1 can be used for quadrature.  My intention is to 
repurpose those pins to the spindle anyway and move the limit switches over to 
the second port. 

I no longer have the need to keep this a dual boot WIN/Linux system that can 
still run from parallel ports.

Thing is this is just one .pin file configuration.  There are others that have 
other features or are organized differently.  So first make a map of what your 
DB25's are organized as.  Then take a look at the various 7i92 pin files and 
find the closest one.  If you need more I/O there are other MESA expansion 
cards that use a Smart Serial module in the pin file on a couple of the header 
pins.  They then wouldn't be available to the DB-25 of course.

Hope that helps.
John Dammeyer



> -Original Message-
> From: R C [mailto:cjv...@gmail.com]
> Sent: June-13-21 6:13 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think
> 
> I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,� part of my problem is that the
> parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
> harder to get.� So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
> controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).
> 
> I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
> motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that
> connects to  steopper drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Ron
> 
> On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
> > I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
> > LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be
> plug-play with pre-build .bit files to configure the Mesa card.
> > My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical 
> > grounding issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct
> connected stuff. It also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't 
> need a pci or pcie slot this way.
> >
> > Gerrit
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: R C 
> > Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
> > To: linuxcnc-users-list 
> > Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> >
> > I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a 
> > parallel BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of
> them just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder 
> to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?
> >
> >
> > What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
> > desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun,
> I am not trying to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly 
> turning stock into scrap).
> >
> >
> > I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones 
> > that use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet
> cards used with
> > those?)
> >
> >
> > I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature 
> > encoder,  the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a
> quadrature encoder).
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > 

Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[R C]

On 6/13/21 7:38 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

Others will have more experience, mine is relatively recent.
The 7i92 in my setup interfaces to the BOB (PMDX132 in my case). It is driving 
4 axes on a shop made gantry-type mill. The actual stepper drivers on the 
PMDX132 are Gecko 201's, nothing stellar but it was almost free, and it works 

If you pick the right 7i92 version it has a DB25 as one of the 2 connectors. 
The Mesa board would directly connect to your PC using an ethernet cable.


That's an option I'd like.  Cat5/6 is a lot easier to get, and 
ethernetcards are easy to find. (It's harder to keep finding the right  
LPT PCI cards).


So each machine, the mill and the lathe,  both would need their own 
7i92, or whatever model,  right?



Ron




Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 9:13 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the parallel 
PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are harder to get.  So 
I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based controller in the PC side (Dell 
T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that connects to  steopper 
drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be plug-play with pre-build 
.bit files to configure the Mesa card.
My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct connected stuff. It also 
expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot 
this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them just  gave up (PCI 
printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder to come by, besides, the 
setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying to 
reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning stock into 
scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the
ones that use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards
used with
those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[R C]

Hi Ralph,

well th ebreakout, BOB, has these buffered ports..  and it sounds like 
I'd still need a parallel port?  The configuration, bitfile,  would that 
be a linuxcnc thing?


(as I mentioned  previous;y,  I wouldn't mind  leaving parallel PCI 
cards behind, and use something ethernet (if those are regular ethernet 
cards?)



thanks,


Ron

On 6/13/21 7:19 PM, Ralph Stirling wrote:

A 7i92 could run twelve steppers full speed.  You load the logic configuration you want 
("bitfile") for your application.  It could have the same pinout as your 
parallel port to plug right into your existing breakout, but run your steppers much 
smoother and faster.

-- Ralph

On Jun 13, 2021 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that connects to  steopper 
drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be plug-play with pre-build 
.bit files to configure the Mesa card.
My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct connected stuff. It also 
expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot 
this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them just  gave up (PCI 
printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder to come by, besides, the 
setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying to 
reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning stock into 
scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards used with
those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[Gerrit Visser]

Others will have more experience, mine is relatively recent.
The 7i92 in my setup interfaces to the BOB (PMDX132 in my case). It is driving 
4 axes on a shop made gantry-type mill. The actual stepper drivers on the 
PMDX132 are Gecko 201's, nothing stellar but it was almost free, and it works 

If you pick the right 7i92 version it has a DB25 as one of the 2 connectors. 
The Mesa board would directly connect to your PC using an ethernet cable.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C  
Sent: June 13, 2021 9:13 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the parallel 
PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are harder to get.  So 
I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based controller in the PC side (Dell 
T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that connects to  steopper 
drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
> I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
> LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be plug-play with pre-build 
> .bit files to configure the Mesa card.
> My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
> issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct connected stuff. It 
> also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't need a pci or pcie 
> slot this way.
>
> Gerrit
>
> -Original Message-
> From: R C 
> Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
> To: linuxcnc-users-list 
> Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think
>
> Hello,
>
>
> I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
> BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them just  gave up 
> (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder to come by, 
> besides, the setup is not really ideal?
>
>
> What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
> desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying to 
> reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning stock into 
> scrap).
>
>
> I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the 
> ones that use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards 
> used with
> those?)
>
>
> I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder, 
>  the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature encoder).
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[Ralph Stirling]

A 7i92 could run twelve steppers full speed.  You load the logic configuration 
you want ("bitfile") for your application.  It could have the same pinout as 
your parallel port to plug right into your existing breakout, but run your 
steppers much smoother and faster.

-- Ralph

On Jun 13, 2021 6:13 PM, R C  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are
harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).

I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that connects to  steopper 
drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:
> I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
> LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be plug-play with pre-build 
> .bit files to configure the Mesa card.
> My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
> issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct connected stuff. It 
> also expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't need a pci or pcie 
> slot this way.
>
> Gerrit
>
> -Original Message-
> From: R C 
> Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
> To: linuxcnc-users-list 
> Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think
>
> Hello,
>
>
> I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
> BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them just  gave up 
> (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder to come by, 
> besides, the setup is not really ideal?
>
>
> What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
> desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying to 
> reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning stock into 
> scrap).
>
>
> I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
> use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards used with
> those?)
>
>
> I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder, 
>  the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature encoder).
>
>
> thanks,
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[R C]

I just looked up what a PMDX132 is,  part of my problem is that the 
parallel PCI card I used appears to be broken, and of course they are 
harder to get.  So I wouldn't mind switching to an ethernet based 
controller in the PC side (Dell T5500/T7500).


I have seen the 7i92  mentioned, and others,  can they do multiple stepper 
motors?  (right now I am using a parallel BOB,  that connects to  steopper 
drivers (ala DM542), which drive the actual steppers.)

thanks,

Ron

On 6/13/21 7:03 PM, Gerrit Visser wrote:

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be plug-play with pre-build 
.bit files to configure the Mesa card.
My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct connected stuff. It also 
expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot 
this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C 
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them just  gave up (PCI 
printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder to come by, besides, the 
setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying to 
reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning stock into 
scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards used with
those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[Gerrit Visser]

I choose a 7i92 to connect my PC with a PMDX132 to run PathPilot (which has 
LinuxCNC inside). Depending on your BOB it might be plug-play with pre-build 
.bit files to configure the Mesa card.
My reason for going with ethernet version was to reduce electrical grounding 
issues. Had too many of those in the past with direct connected stuff. It also 
expands the choice of PC to run LinuxCNC on, doesn't need a pci or pcie slot 
this way.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: R C  
Sent: June 13, 2021 8:43 PM
To: linuxcnc-users-list 
Subject: [Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a parallel 
BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them just  gave up (PCI 
printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder to come by, besides, the 
setup is not really ideal?


What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things are 
desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying to 
reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning stock into 
scrap).


I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones that 
use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards used with
those?)


I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature encoder,  
the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature encoder).


thanks,


Ron



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[Emc-users] all the MESA cards talk made me think

[R C]

Hello,


I have a 'desktop' mill and lathe (both Sherline),  and I am using a 
parallel BOB and  printer ports to run  them.  Of course one of them 
just  gave up (PCI printer card),  I do have a spare but they are harder 
to come by, besides, the setup is not really ideal?



What would be the best way to replace the BOB-LPT stuff?  (these things 
are desktop CNC machines, I am playing/learning for fun, I am not trying 
to reliably machine F22 raptor jet engine parts, I am mostly turning 
stock into scrap).



I see some cards that are in the $50 etc range,  and there are the ones 
that use  ether/cat5 connections (are 'regular' ethernet cards used with 
those?)



I am looking at a lathe that has 2 steppers, and it has a quadrature 
encoder,  the mill has 3 steppers, and planning on adding a quadrature 
encoder).



thanks,


Ron



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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Bari]

On 6/13/21 2:49 PM, Feral Engineer wrote:


Anyone trying to push a grbl box over Linuxcnc clearly has their head in a
rather unmentionable place.

As someone who has worked in the machine tool industry for nearly 2
decades, I've found Linuxcnc to be comparable to many "industrial" grade
controls, like fanuc, mitsubishi meldas and siemens from both configuration
and operation standpoint.

No CNC control is perfect, but the countless hours the developers have put
into lcnc out of their sheer dedication to the product shouldn't be written
off and for a feature that isn't yet implemented, the openness of the
software allows you to choose your own destiny with how you want it to look
and operate.

Show me grbl support for PLC/ladder, show me grbl support for 5 axis
kinematics or ATC circuits, show me grbl support for any code that ventures
away from G0 and G1.


The only issue I've had with the Rpi4 with 2Gb or 4GB of RAM has been 
with stable 4K video using the LCNC Buster ISO or Raspian. It might be a 
lucky combo of cables and monitors that cause the video to lose sync 
every now and then. But when I try to use it with a 4K projector for DLP 
resin printing the loss of signal for even a second triggers the 
firmware in the projector to display text on the projector that signal 
was lost and then display the projector brand, which in turn ruins the 
print since the display is the tool.


The problem went away when I used a Gentoo image for the Rpi4 
https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi-64bit


I didn't compare all the differences between the drivers and configs for 
Gentoo vs Buster and Raspian to see what the Gentoo dev was getting 
right. It might have even been its firmware settings.




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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control

[John Dammeyer]

Hi Gene, 
> Thats great John. But I haven't noted a ready supply of such speedy parts
> being used on the boards we CAN buy, with the exception of cnc4pc's C1G
> rev 4 board which has been discoed as it was about 85 bucks. It also had
> enough tally leds to light the room with. handy for trouble-shooting
> too. But cnc4pc no longer makes an equivalent bob, dammit.

I've been chatting with Arturo Duncan at CNC4PC and he's been very supportive 
on what I've been doing for my friends CNC system.   Haven't needed another BoB 
for a number of years so I don't really know what is out there now.  And as I 
showed with the schematic, I have the background to be able to make my own 
custom interface boards so it's not a big deal.  I make what I need now because 
PC boards from China are so cheap.
> 
> > Same with the spindle.  The large cast iron single phase AC 2HP 220VAC
> > motor had quite the hum when it was turning.  The much smaller 1.8kW
> > AC Servo is so much quieter and variable speed.I looked into
> > getting a three phase motor for it and a VFD.  The Bergerda
> > combination ended up being cheaper.  But I did have to cast and
> > machine my own pulleys.  Now the noisiest part of the spindle is the
> > rattling of the spline inside the drive part of the quill.
> 
> And thats probably created by the servo's response to quantization noise
> causing motor speed variations that use up the slack. All of that went
> away when I moved from a 274 edge optical encoder on the spindle, to a
> 1000 line on the rear of the motor, my scale for the spindle in the ini
> file is now a bit over 7000 in high gear, and something north of 14k in
> low gear. And below 400 revs, its so quiet I have to look at the tool to
> see if its spinning. The index however, still comes from the spindle.

In my case it's poor quality on the quill/spline interface.  The spindle gets a 
push from the splines and takes up the space until it hits the back of the next 
spline, bounces off and then rattles back.  If I grab the spindle and load it 
with my hand ever so slightly the thing is dead quiet.  

The outside driving part is held in bearings and has a cone shaped profile at 
the top.  The driving pulley from the motor is also tapered and a nut with a 
locking key holds it together.  I would have to create a different drive system 
with perhaps a tighter inner spline or else create a new quill with a tighter 
outer spline.  I'll send you a few 400K JPG off list.

But as a friend said to me the other day.  All this iron that comes from China 
is for the most part meant for repair and one_of manual construction.  To bring 
it up to HAAS standards requires a totally different approach in some areas.  
Like not even having a quill for example.  On one forum the guy converting to 
CNC the same series of mill said if he were to do it again he'd replace the 
Knee dovetailed connection with linear bearings.  I'm not about to go that far. 
 But his approach to how he moved the new upgraded ball screw for the knee is 
nice but would require a complete redesign of where I have my motors.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[andy pugh]

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 at 20:52, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> 1. Do you have a VFD on a 3 phase motor for Lathe or Mill.

Both.

> 2. Does the CNC controller drive the spindle or do you set the speed and 
> ON/OFF manually?

The lathe uses a USB "modbus" link (and it's clearly not realtime, but
good enough). HY VFD

The mill uses analogue voltage control of the Mitsubishi VFD.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Router with 2.2 KW elte spindle run by a GS2 VFD via modbus.

Thaddeus Waldner
Newdale School
Elkton, SD 57026

From: Gene Heskett 
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 4:24:04 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

On Sunday 13 June 2021 15:49:44 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Quick little survey on what everyone has on their machine for spindle
> control.
>
> 1. Do you have a VFD on a 3 phase motor for Lathe or Mill.

2 of my 4 machines follow that recipe.

The Sheldon lathe, with a 30 some lb 8" 4 jaw mounted, can do the
reversal at the bottom of a rigid tap with an overshoot of .25 turns at
100 rpm. The motor is a 1hp 3 phase about 50 years old I had to put
bearings in. The 6040 motor died of bad bearings quickly, so both the
120 volt vfd and the motor were replaced with 250 volt equ's. No
encoder, not enough cajones to tap a hole anyway, but sure did a nice
job cutting out motor mounts and wrenches from 1/2" alu

The other 2 machines have 90 volt, 9.7 amps at full song 1hp PMDC brushed
motors and use Jon Elson's Pico Systems pwm-servo, both with big ugly
125 volt supplies and all get faster than expected control. Either
supply is good for 30 amps surge. Jon's servo makes them both behave
themselves well. They don't really have a choice with that kind of power
banging on them.

> 2. Does the CNC controller drive the spindle or do you set the speed
> and ON/OFF manually?

LCNC does it all.

> Just curious
> John
>
>
>
> "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> Automation Artisans Inc.
> www dot autoartisans dot com
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 June 2021 17:27:51 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> >
> > On Sunday 13 June 2021 14:43:00 John Dammeyer wrote:
> > > At the moment I still have the stepgen 5 on the second parallel
> > > port so I can measure both PWM and STEPPING.
> > >
> > > Raspberry Pi4 + 1GB + LinuxCNC + MESA_7i92H + ProbotixBoB + custom
> > > VHDL for the MESA board thanks to Peter Wallace at MESA.
> > >
> > > AXIS display shows 1500 RPM, PWM is 50% and if I zoom in on the
> > > step pulses my scope tells me it's 250kHz which is 50% of the max
> > > step rate as currently set.
> >
> > BBBuuutt, 250 khz is right at the ragged edge of what the
> > opto-isolators in the input of most stepper drivers can pass. If you
> > want maximum speed, cut the drivers divisor in half at the
> > dipswitches, and cut that axis's scale in half for the same motor
> > speed at half the step rate...
>
> Hey Gene,
> You're probably using cheap far east parts when you talk about optos.

Well, its what is supplied, in/on what we can buy, both in driver inputs 
like the 2m542 and its ilk, and in common bob's. The 7 cent parts in 
reel qty's. And generally speaking, its fast enough to push the motor 
fast enough its coil inductance gets in the way of ever reaching the 
labeled on the dip switches current flow, so the torque goes down to zip 
anyway.

The link below is to a GAs led, some of which can easily be driven by a 4 
channel encoder for tv fiber interconnections with all 4 channels being 
full hi def, and its definitely not the 7 cent variety. Probably at 
least a magnitude higher priced. 94 cents in 1k lots ack the link. At 10 
Mb/sec thats slow, good ones can do gigabit+ speeds but aren't cheap.

> This one that I use is good to 10Mbps.
> https://www.onsemi.com/products/optoelectronics/high-performance-optoc
>ouplers/high-speed-logic-gate-optocouplers/hcpl2631v
>
> And the AM26LS31 differential line driver is also way up there in
> speed.  And the spec on the Bergerda AC Servo is that it also can
> handle that speed.

Thats great John. But I haven't noted a ready supply of such speedy parts 
being used on the boards we CAN buy, with the exception of cnc4pc's C1G 
rev 4 board which has been discoed as it was about 85 bucks. It also had 
enough tally leds to light the room with. handy for trouble-shooting 
too. But cnc4pc no longer makes an equivalent bob, dammit.

> I've attached the schematic of my interface board for the spindle. 
> Note I do use the slow 4N27's for the slow signals like ENABLE and
> FAULT.  Even the PWM DIR signal which is separate from the STEP/DIR
> signals is only buffered with a 4N27 since again the speed for
> direction change isn't a big deal.
>
In my case for the BS1 servo, I used the pwngen in mode 2 and speed was 
needed as slow=hot chips.

> > Well above what the average bob can pass. And 3k rpms is pushing a
> > stepper too fast for anything but laying loose on the table.
> > if you want real, usable torque, stay below 1500 revs.
>
> IMHO steppers are really useless above about 750 RPM unless they are
> so oversized that the torque drop off above that speed still runs the
> machine.
>
> But I'm _not_ using steppers.   AC and DC Servo motors.  Don't suffer
> from the issues that steppers suffer and wonderfully quiet.  Where
> before with the GECKO and 1000 oz-in stepper on the knee I couldn't
> hear the bevel gears rattling.  Now the motor is so quiet the other
> noises become annoying.

Yup.

> Same with the spindle.  The large cast iron single phase AC 2HP 220VAC
> motor had quite the hum when it was turning.  The much smaller 1.8kW
> AC Servo is so much quieter and variable speed.I looked into
> getting a three phase motor for it and a VFD.  The Bergerda
> combination ended up being cheaper.  But I did have to cast and
> machine my own pulleys.  Now the noisiest part of the spindle is the
> rattling of the spline inside the drive part of the quill.

And thats probably created by the servo's response to quantization noise 
causing motor speed variations that use up the slack. All of that went 
away when I moved from a 274 edge optical encoder on the spindle, to a 
1000 line on the rear of the motor, my scale for the spindle in the ini 
file is now a bit over 7000 in high gear, and something north of 14k in 
low gear. And below 400 revs, its so quiet I have to look at the tool to 
see if its spinning. The index however, still comes from the spindle.

> John


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]


> On Sunday 13 June 2021 14:43:00 John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > At the moment I still have the stepgen 5 on the second parallel port
> > so I can measure both PWM and STEPPING.
> >
> > Raspberry Pi4 + 1GB + LinuxCNC + MESA_7i92H + ProbotixBoB + custom
> > VHDL for the MESA board thanks to Peter Wallace at MESA.
> >
> > AXIS display shows 1500 RPM, PWM is 50% and if I zoom in on the step
> > pulses my scope tells me it's 250kHz which is 50% of the max step rate
> > as currently set.
> 
> BBBuuutt, 250 khz is right at the ragged edge of what the opto-isolators
> in the input of most stepper drivers can pass. If you want maximum
> speed, cut the drivers divisor in half at the dipswitches, and cut that
> axis's scale in half for the same motor speed at half the step rate...

Hey Gene,
You're probably using cheap far east parts when you talk about optos.  

This one that I use is good to 10Mbps.
https://www.onsemi.com/products/optoelectronics/high-performance-optocouplers/high-speed-logic-gate-optocouplers/hcpl2631v

And the AM26LS31 differential line driver is also way up there in speed.  And 
the spec on the Bergerda AC Servo is that it also can handle that speed.

I've attached the schematic of my interface board for the spindle.  Note I do 
use the slow 4N27's for the slow signals like ENABLE and FAULT.  Even the PWM 
DIR signal which is separate from the STEP/DIR signals is only buffered with a 
4N27 since again the speed for direction change isn't a big deal.  

> Well above what the average bob can pass. And 3k rpms is pushing a
> stepper too fast for anything but laying loose on the table.
> if you want real, usable torque, stay below 1500 revs. 

IMHO steppers are really useless above about 750 RPM unless they are so 
oversized that the torque drop off above that speed still runs the machine.

But I'm _not_ using steppers.   AC and DC Servo motors.  Don't suffer from the 
issues that steppers suffer and wonderfully quiet.  Where before with the GECKO 
and 1000 oz-in stepper on the knee I couldn't hear the bevel gears rattling.  
Now the motor is so quiet the other noises become annoying.

Same with the spindle.  The large cast iron single phase AC 2HP 220VAC motor 
had quite the hum when it was turning.  The much smaller 1.8kW AC Servo is so 
much quieter and variable speed.I looked into getting a three phase motor 
for it and a VFD.  The Bergerda combination ended up being cheaper.  But I did 
have to cast and machine my own pulleys.  Now the noisiest part of the spindle 
is the rattling of the spline inside the drive part of the quill.  

John


PWMSpindle.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 June 2021 15:49:44 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Quick little survey on what everyone has on their machine for spindle
> control.
>
> 1. Do you have a VFD on a 3 phase motor for Lathe or Mill.

2 of my 4 machines follow that recipe.

The Sheldon lathe, with a 30 some lb 8" 4 jaw mounted, can do the 
reversal at the bottom of a rigid tap with an overshoot of .25 turns at 
100 rpm. The motor is a 1hp 3 phase about 50 years old I had to put 
bearings in. The 6040 motor died of bad bearings quickly, so both the 
120 volt vfd and the motor were replaced with 250 volt equ's. No 
encoder, not enough cajones to tap a hole anyway, but sure did a nice 
job cutting out motor mounts and wrenches from 1/2" alu

The other 2 machines have 90 volt, 9.7 amps at full song 1hp PMDC brushed 
motors and use Jon Elson's Pico Systems pwm-servo, both with big ugly 
125 volt supplies and all get faster than expected control. Either 
supply is good for 30 amps surge. Jon's servo makes them both behave 
themselves well. They don't really have a choice with that kind of power 
banging on them.

> 2. Does the CNC controller drive the spindle or do you set the speed
> and ON/OFF manually?

LCNC does it all.

> Just curious
> John
>
>
>
> "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> Automation Artisans Inc.
> www dot autoartisans dot com
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 June 2021 14:43:00 John Dammeyer wrote:

> At the moment I still have the stepgen 5 on the second parallel port
> so I can measure both PWM and STEPPING.
>
> Raspberry Pi4 + 1GB + LinuxCNC + MESA_7i92H + ProbotixBoB + custom
> VHDL for the MESA board thanks to Peter Wallace at MESA.
>
> AXIS display shows 1500 RPM, PWM is 50% and if I zoom in on the step
> pulses my scope tells me it's 250kHz which is 50% of the max step rate
> as currently set.

BBBuuutt, 250 khz is right at the ragged edge of what the opto-isolators 
in the input of most stepper drivers can pass. If you want maximum 
speed, cut the drivers divisor in half at the dipswitches, and cut that 
axis's scale in half for the same motor speed at half the step rate...
 
> Math for that is 2500 line encoder = 10,000 edges per revolution which
> at 3000 RPM is 50 RPS.  And 50 x 10,000 = 500Khz step rate.

Well above what the average bob can pass. And 3k rpms is pushing a 
stepper too fast for anything but laying loose on the table. 
if you want real, usable torque, stay below 1500 revs. Maybe 2000 but 
only with a 48 volt supply on a 50 volt rated driver. I turn my 48's 
down to 42.5 just so the driver has some headroom before it breaks the 
mirror and lets out the smoke.

Again, that is only valid if there are no opto or other noise suppressing 
capacitors in the bobs input circuits. I've had to modify nearly every 
bob I have ever used to bypass the opto's or remove the noise filtering, 
even the opto-less sainsmart 5 axis bob has had to be modified by 
removing the grain of sand capacitors in the inputs connected to the 
encoder in the motor for my A axis servo.

> The encoder on the spindle will have less lines and likely I'll
> program the Bergerda Servo to divide the encoder by 5 to bring my step
> rate for the spindle down to 100kHz.  It's differential drive out to
> the Bergerda so I'm not too worried about noise.
>
> Power tapping here I come.  Baby steps.
>
> John
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > Sent: June-13-21 1:35 AM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control
> >
> > So here's the photo with the Pi4 1GB running LinuxCNC.  The 4 roller
> > switches are the three homes and the shared limit for the other
> > axis.  Normally there would be 3 in series.  The orange paddle
> > switch is estop.  The cable to these switches goes to the 7i92H
> > P2.DB25.
> >
> > On the P1 connector I have the Probotix BoB.  No isolation needed
> > for testing so it's powered from the same supply on both sides.  I
> > have the scope on Pins 2,3 of what would be the second DB25.
> >
> > Now if I plug a motor into the step/dir outputs of the BoB it should
> > spin the motor based on requested spindle RPM.
> >
> > Been a good day.
> > John
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > > Sent: June-13-21 1:05 AM
> > > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control
> > >
> > > No worries.  Found the solution.
> > > I have spindle.0.speed-out-rps connected to spindle-cmd  which 
> > > ends up being a signed float.
> > >
> > > net spindle-cmd <= spindle.0.speed-out-rps
> > >
> > > And that's connected to the stepgen
> > > net spindle-cmd =>  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-cmd
> > >
> > > Results in my P1.19_DB25.2 showing a square wave on the scope when
> > > I toggle the axis CW and click on the speed.  Change to
> >
> > CCW
> >
> > > and click speed again I get the square wave on the scope and the
> > > P1.23_DB25.3 changes to a logic high for a change in direction.
> > >
> > > More when I test it with a motor.
> > > John


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Cristian Bontas]

router mill, 2.2 kW water-cooled spindle, VFD (Huanyang clone)

driven by LinuxCNC, through RS432

On 6/13/2021 22:49, John Dammeyer wrote:

Quick little survey on what everyone has on their machine for spindle control.
  
1. Do you have a VFD on a 3 phase motor for Lathe or Mill.
  
2. Does the CNC controller drive the spindle or do you set the speed and ON/OFF manually?
  
Just curious

John
  
  
  
"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"

Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com
  


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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Peter Hodgson]

1) 2HP 3 phase motor powered by VFD (with 240v single phase supply) on Emco 
lathe

2) VFD vari speed controlled with LCNC via Pico Systems Board

> On 13 Jun 2021, at 20:55, Matthew Herd  wrote:
> 
> 1. VFD w/ 3 phase 2hp motor on a mill
> 
> 2. Planned implementation of hybrid VFD and vari-speed controlled speed, but 
> currently set manually via the vari-speed head. 
> 
>> On Jun 13, 2021, at 3:49 PM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>> 
>> Quick little survey on what everyone has on their machine for spindle 
>> control.
>> 
>> 1. Do you have a VFD on a 3 phase motor for Lathe or Mill.
>> 
>> 2. Does the CNC controller drive the spindle or do you set the speed and 
>> ON/OFF manually?
>> 
>> Just curious
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
>> Automation Artisans Inc.
>> www dot autoartisans dot com 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Chris Albertson]

I have a Harbor freight mini mill with the dumbest possible spindle
control.  The mill comes from the factory with a variable resistor to
control speed.   My idea was to connect a variable resistor to a $5 model
airplane servo.  So the PWM output from LinuxCNC drives the servo and the
servo turns the pot which controls the spindle motor.   I would never be
able to do rigid tapping with this setup.

I just bought a generic 600 line per revolution optical encoder on eBay I
intend to use this to measure spindle RPM.  My plan is to use one of those
new $4 Raspberry Pi "Pico" boards to read the encoder.   The little
microcontroller can encode data line crossing at over 1MHz.  I plan to
send the data back to LinuxCNC.

Then in phase 2, I will put the PID control loop inside the Pico.  Then
over time move other functions like limit and home switch interfacing into
the Pico.   This will reduce the wires as the pico can be mounted
directly to the mill and housed in a little plastic box

But today the spindle is open loop with no RPM sensor and a model airplane
servo turns the knob for me.

Anyone wanting to do real-time control for way-cheap needs to look at the
Raspberry Pi Pico.   They cost $4 each and have two ARM M0 cores and also
the "PIO" system which is basically 8 very simple and fast "cores" that
have direct access to IO pins and run independently of the two CPU cores.
Oh, and the entire thing can be programmed in Python if you like. Or you
can use the Arduino IDC,  It is very easy for beginners.



On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 12:52 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> Quick little survey on what everyone has on their machine for spindle
> control.
>
> 1. Do you have a VFD on a 3 phase motor for Lathe or Mill.
>
> 2. Does the CNC controller drive the spindle or do you set the speed and
> ON/OFF manually?
>
> Just curious
> John
>
>
>
> "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> Automation Artisans Inc.
> www dot autoartisans dot com
>
>
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle Control

[Matthew Herd]

1. VFD w/ 3 phase 2hp motor on a mill

2. Planned implementation of hybrid VFD and vari-speed controlled speed, but 
currently set manually via the vari-speed head. 

> On Jun 13, 2021, at 3:49 PM, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> Quick little survey on what everyone has on their machine for spindle control.
> 
> 1. Do you have a VFD on a 3 phase motor for Lathe or Mill.
> 
> 2. Does the CNC controller drive the spindle or do you set the speed and 
> ON/OFF manually?
> 
> Just curious
> John
> 
> 
> 
> "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> Automation Artisans Inc.
> www dot autoartisans dot com 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Feral Engineer]

Anyone trying to push a grbl box over Linuxcnc clearly has their head in a
rather unmentionable place.

As someone who has worked in the machine tool industry for nearly 2
decades, I've found Linuxcnc to be comparable to many "industrial" grade
controls, like fanuc, mitsubishi meldas and siemens from both configuration
and operation standpoint.

No CNC control is perfect, but the countless hours the developers have put
into lcnc out of their sheer dedication to the product shouldn't be written
off and for a feature that isn't yet implemented, the openness of the
software allows you to choose your own destiny with how you want it to look
and operate.

Show me grbl support for PLC/ladder, show me grbl support for 5 axis
kinematics or ATC circuits, show me grbl support for any code that ventures
away from G0 and G1.

Coming on here, bashing Linuxcnc (and indirectly, the developers and users)
while simultaneously trying to sell your own product is breaking a cardinal
rule in good sales tactics. You should never belittle a competitor product
to make yours look better, you should provide information about your
product that shows key points on how it's better.


Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 1:54 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 13 June 2021 12:24:12 Rafael Skodlar wrote:
>
> > On 6/13/21 1:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > >> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > >>
> > >>> On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia
> > >>>  wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>   I do have a Rpi3
> > >>
> > >> ...
> > >>
> > >>> I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
> > >>
> > >> I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4
> > >> Pis have the Ethernet in the USB bus.
> > >
> > > I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.
> > > Apparently it has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works
> > > best with 4GB apparently.
> > >
> > > John
> >
> > Huh? That makes no sense. If nothing else, you can use it for fake
> > swap if nothing else.
> >
> > RPi is NOT good for any industrial use.
>
> Scuse me while I get upset at a pack of lies promulgated by Rafael
> Skodlar.
>
> Tell that to my 75 yo Sheldon lathe, which is now being driven by a pi4b,
> but which also worked well with the previous pi3b for a couple years,
> and its doing stuff with only 2 motors, and NO compound and no taper kit
> that it couldn't with an intact compound and a taper kit when it was
> new, and doing it faster than any human could have done it 75 years
> ago. 'Merican threads of any pitch and taper, ditto for Metric threads
> of any pitch and taper. Correcting for bed wear dynamically as it moves.
> Measuring (and correcting for it if you write it into the gcode, so no
> more broken taps from hitting the bottom of a hole) overshoot at the
> turn around (spindle reverse) point while its doing rigid tapping.  And
> it does all this with months of uptime if I shut down the daily updates
> since its is also building LinuxCNC from github/master, on the pi, for
> the pi, installed on the pi at least daily.
>
> > This thing is for kids to
> > learn Linux and open source programming techniques. RaspberryPi PCB
> > design is just bad for industrial use: holes for mounting, using glue
> > for CPU heatsink, connectors positions and their orientation, sandwich
> > style header connector for DIO, silicon waste (for sound and video
> > IO), etc.
> >
> > To execute G-code using a large footprint computer makes no sense
> > anymore. This open source based solution is gaining popularity for
> > simple CNC:
> > https://openbuildspartstore.com/interface/  and other related HW.
> >
> So thats why the derogatory post. You want to sell your little box.
> I don't have a problem with that, beauty always being in the mind of the
> beholder. NIH syndrome at its best.
>
> But you have no excuse to lie and denegrate the pi's while doing it.
>
> > Just the fact that Openbuilds is not using LinuxCNC is saying
> > something. Dead end: no innovations, limitation in
> > electronics/hardware selection.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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[Emc-users] Spindle Control

[John Dammeyer]

Quick little survey on what everyone has on their machine for spindle control.
 
1. Do you have a VFD on a 3 phase motor for Lathe or Mill.
 
2. Does the CNC controller drive the spindle or do you set the speed and ON/OFF 
manually?
 
Just curious
John
 
 
 
"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com 
 

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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Joshua Berensen]

Lol openbuilds is using grbl because it’s simple. Openbuilds doesn’t specialize 
with larger and more complex machines along with more sophisticated control 
systems and user interfaces. Grbl is great for simple router machines and 
openbuild’s “MiniMill”. It’s a toy for larger and more complex machines. Even 
Tormach uses their own fork of LinuxCNC. Grbl just can’t get the job done. 


> On Jun 13, 2021, at 11:41 AM, Ralph Stirling  
> wrote:
> 
> Don't want to fuel any flame wars, but this kind of solution is probably 
> fine for generic desktop cnc routers with steppers. Grbl even has jerk 
> limited trajectories.  As soon as you get out of that stock 3 or 4 axis space 
> and want to have tool changers, servos, non-cartesian machines, lathes, 
> custom logic and the like, Linuxcnc really shines.  For the lower end 
> machines this package is aimed at, a Rpi 4B with Mesa 7i90 and Linuxcnc 2.8 
> works great and is price competitive.
> 
> -- Ralph
> 
> On Jun 13, 2021 9:51 AM, Rafael Skodlar  wrote:
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
> system.
> 
> 
> On 6/13/21 1:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia  
> wrote:
> 
>  I do have a Rpi3
>>> ...
 I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
>>> 
>>> I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis have 
>>> the Ethernet in the USB bus.
>> 
>> I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently it 
>> has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB 
>> apparently.
>> 
>> John
> 
> Huh? That makes no sense. If nothing else, you can use it for fake swap
> if nothing else.
> 
> RPi is NOT good for any industrial use. This thing is for kids to learn
> Linux and open source programming techniques. RaspberryPi PCB design is
> just bad for industrial use: holes for mounting, using glue for CPU
> heatsink, connectors positions and their orientation, sandwich style
> header connector for DIO, silicon waste (for sound and video IO), etc.
> 
> To execute G-code using a large footprint computer makes no sense
> anymore. This open source based solution is gaining popularity for
> simple CNC:
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fopenbuildspartstore.com%2Finterface%2Fdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C9377f0f2a33846d8a41108d92e8b7bf1%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637591998889297483%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=jqHDAlBt4VCbphwggl1aVHGR%2F5thbXWVtXbdSs3AF%2F0%3Dreserved=0
>   and other related HW.
> 
> Just the fact that Openbuilds is not using LinuxCNC is saying something.
> Dead end: no innovations, limitation in electronics/hardware selection.
> 
> 
> --
> Rafael Skodlar
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Ralph Stirling]

Good point.  The OpenBuilds motion controller is another $200.
That pendant Rafael linked could probably be easily interfaced
to Linuxcnc instead of the OpenBuilds motion controller if one
wanted.

The OpenBuilds motion controller  is in a nice little box with
pluggable screw terminals on the side.  I would like to see a
Linuxcnc motion controller package that is more like a typical
PLC package, with pluggable 24v compatible I/O and everything
boxed up and powered.  Might have to design it myself and see
who else is interested in it.

https://openbuildspartstore.com/blackbox-motion-control-system/

-- Ralph

From: Dr. Andreas O. Lindner [a.lind...@lindner-tac.at]
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 10:05 AM
To: ra...@linwin.com; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


Sorry to say, but here you missed something. A motion-controller is needed in 
addition. They mention something like grbl 1.1, ….

LCNC is all that together and can do a lot more. This seams to be some fancy 
pendent for grbl.

just my 2 cts.

Andreas O. Lindner

Lindner TAC


> Am 13.06.2021 um 18:24 schrieb Rafael Skodlar :
>
> On 6/13/21 1:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
 On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:

  I do have a Rpi3
>>> ...
 I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
>>>
>>> I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis have 
>>> the Ethernet in the USB bus.
>> I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently it 
>> has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB 
>> apparently.
>> John
>
> Huh? That makes no sense. If nothing else, you can use it for fake swap if 
> nothing else.
>
> RPi is NOT good for any industrial use. This thing is for kids to learn Linux 
> and open source programming techniques. RaspberryPi PCB design is just bad 
> for industrial use: holes for mounting, using glue for CPU heatsink, 
> connectors positions and their orientation, sandwich style header connector 
> for DIO, silicon waste (for sound and video IO), etc.
>
> To execute G-code using a large footprint computer makes no sense anymore. 
> This open source based solution is gaining popularity for simple CNC:
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fopenbuildspartstore.com%2Finterface%2Fdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C7ce4fb1e23484f391e4308d92e8fd5a7%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637592017581330281%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=4Rc36AB7NWMvZcMu8igGs6%2BfttO%2FFGyesYO3OI9ZXFM%3Dreserved=0
>   and other related HW.
>
> Just the fact that Openbuilds is not using LinuxCNC is saying something. Dead 
> end: no innovations, limitation in electronics/hardware selection.
>
>
> --
> Rafael Skodlar
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control

[John Dammeyer]

At the moment I still have the stepgen 5 on the second parallel port so I can 
measure both PWM and STEPPING.

Raspberry Pi4 + 1GB + LinuxCNC + MESA_7i92H + ProbotixBoB + custom VHDL for the 
MESA board thanks to Peter Wallace at MESA.

AXIS display shows 1500 RPM, PWM is 50% and if I zoom in on the step pulses my 
scope tells me it's 250kHz which is 50% of the max step rate as currently set.

Math for that is 2500 line encoder = 10,000 edges per revolution which at 3000 
RPM is 50 RPS.  And 50 x 10,000 = 500Khz step rate.

The encoder on the spindle will have less lines and likely I'll program the 
Bergerda Servo to divide the encoder by 5 to bring my step rate for the spindle 
down to 100kHz.  It's differential drive out to the Bergerda so I'm not too 
worried about noise.

Power tapping here I come.  Baby steps.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: June-13-21 1:35 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control
> 
> So here's the photo with the Pi4 1GB running LinuxCNC.  The 4 roller switches 
> are the three homes and the shared limit for the other
> axis.  Normally there would be 3 in series.  The orange paddle switch is 
> estop.  The cable to these switches goes to the 7i92H
> P2.DB25.
> 
> On the P1 connector I have the Probotix BoB.  No isolation needed for testing 
> so it's powered from the same supply on both sides.  I
> have the scope on Pins 2,3 of what would be the second DB25.
> 
> Now if I plug a motor into the step/dir outputs of the BoB it should spin the 
> motor based on requested spindle RPM.
> 
> Been a good day.
> John
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > Sent: June-13-21 1:05 AM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control
> >
> > No worries.  Found the solution.
> > I have spindle.0.speed-out-rps connected to spindle-cmd  which  ends up 
> > being a signed float.
> >
> > net spindle-cmd <= spindle.0.speed-out-rps
> >
> > And that's connected to the stepgen
> > net spindle-cmd =>  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-cmd
> >
> > Results in my P1.19_DB25.2 showing a square wave on the scope when I toggle 
> > the axis CW and click on the speed.  Change to
> CCW
> > and click speed again I get the square wave on the scope and the 
> > P1.23_DB25.3 changes to a logic high for a change in direction.
> >
> > More when I test it with a motor.
> > John
> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 June 2021 12:24:12 Rafael Skodlar wrote:

> On 6/13/21 1:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> >>
> >>> On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>   I do have a Rpi3
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >>> I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
> >>
> >> I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4
> >> Pis have the Ethernet in the USB bus.
> >
> > I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC. 
> > Apparently it has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works
> > best with 4GB apparently.
> >
> > John
>
> Huh? That makes no sense. If nothing else, you can use it for fake
> swap if nothing else.
>
> RPi is NOT good for any industrial use.

Scuse me while I get upset at a pack of lies promulgated by Rafael 
Skodlar.

Tell that to my 75 yo Sheldon lathe, which is now being driven by a pi4b, 
but which also worked well with the previous pi3b for a couple years, 
and its doing stuff with only 2 motors, and NO compound and no taper kit 
that it couldn't with an intact compound and a taper kit when it was 
new, and doing it faster than any human could have done it 75 years 
ago. 'Merican threads of any pitch and taper, ditto for Metric threads 
of any pitch and taper. Correcting for bed wear dynamically as it moves. 
Measuring (and correcting for it if you write it into the gcode, so no 
more broken taps from hitting the bottom of a hole) overshoot at the 
turn around (spindle reverse) point while its doing rigid tapping.  And 
it does all this with months of uptime if I shut down the daily updates 
since its is also building LinuxCNC from github/master, on the pi, for 
the pi, installed on the pi at least daily.

> This thing is for kids to 
> learn Linux and open source programming techniques. RaspberryPi PCB
> design is just bad for industrial use: holes for mounting, using glue
> for CPU heatsink, connectors positions and their orientation, sandwich
> style header connector for DIO, silicon waste (for sound and video
> IO), etc.
>
> To execute G-code using a large footprint computer makes no sense
> anymore. This open source based solution is gaining popularity for
> simple CNC:
> https://openbuildspartstore.com/interface/  and other related HW.
>
So thats why the derogatory post. You want to sell your little box.
I don't have a problem with that, beauty always being in the mind of the 
beholder. NIH syndrome at its best.

But you have no excuse to lie and denegrate the pi's while doing it.

> Just the fact that Openbuilds is not using LinuxCNC is saying
> something. Dead end: no innovations, limitation in
> electronics/hardware selection.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Ralph Stirling]

Don't want to fuel any flame wars, but this kind of solution is probably fine 
for generic desktop cnc routers with steppers. Grbl even has jerk limited 
trajectories.  As soon as you get out of that stock 3 or 4 axis space and want 
to have tool changers, servos, non-cartesian machines, lathes, custom logic and 
the like, Linuxcnc really shines.  For the lower end machines this package is 
aimed at, a Rpi 4B with Mesa 7i90 and Linuxcnc 2.8 works great and is price 
competitive.

-- Ralph

On Jun 13, 2021 9:51 AM, Rafael Skodlar  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On 6/13/21 1:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
>>> On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:
>>>
>>>   I do have a Rpi3
>> ...
>>> I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
>>
>> I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis have 
>> the Ethernet in the USB bus.
>
> I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently it has 
> issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB apparently.
>
> John

Huh? That makes no sense. If nothing else, you can use it for fake swap
if nothing else.

RPi is NOT good for any industrial use. This thing is for kids to learn
Linux and open source programming techniques. RaspberryPi PCB design is
just bad for industrial use: holes for mounting, using glue for CPU
heatsink, connectors positions and their orientation, sandwich style
header connector for DIO, silicon waste (for sound and video IO), etc.

To execute G-code using a large footprint computer makes no sense
anymore. This open source based solution is gaining popularity for
simple CNC:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fopenbuildspartstore.com%2Finterface%2Fdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C9377f0f2a33846d8a41108d92e8b7bf1%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C1%7C637591998889297483%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000sdata=jqHDAlBt4VCbphwggl1aVHGR%2F5thbXWVtXbdSs3AF%2F0%3Dreserved=0
  and other related HW.

Just the fact that Openbuilds is not using LinuxCNC is saying something.
Dead end: no innovations, limitation in electronics/hardware selection.


--
Rafael Skodlar


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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Dr. Andreas O. Lindner]

Sorry to say, but here you missed something. A motion-controller is needed in 
addition. They mention something like grbl 1.1, ….

LCNC is all that together and can do a lot more. This seams to be some fancy 
pendent for grbl.

just my 2 cts.

Andreas O. Lindner

Lindner TAC


> Am 13.06.2021 um 18:24 schrieb Rafael Skodlar :
> 
> On 6/13/21 1:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
>>> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
 On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:
 
  I do have a Rpi3
>>> ...
 I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
>>> 
>>> I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis have 
>>> the Ethernet in the USB bus.
>> I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently it 
>> has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB 
>> apparently.
>> John
> 
> Huh? That makes no sense. If nothing else, you can use it for fake swap if 
> nothing else.
> 
> RPi is NOT good for any industrial use. This thing is for kids to learn Linux 
> and open source programming techniques. RaspberryPi PCB design is just bad 
> for industrial use: holes for mounting, using glue for CPU heatsink, 
> connectors positions and their orientation, sandwich style header connector 
> for DIO, silicon waste (for sound and video IO), etc.
> 
> To execute G-code using a large footprint computer makes no sense anymore. 
> This open source based solution is gaining popularity for simple CNC:
> https://openbuildspartstore.com/interface/  and other related HW.
> 
> Just the fact that Openbuilds is not using LinuxCNC is saying something. Dead 
> end: no innovations, limitation in electronics/hardware selection.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rafael Skodlar
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Dr. Nikolaus Klepp]

Anno domini 2021 Sun, 13 Jun 09:24:12 -0700
 Rafael Skodlar scripsit:
> On 6/13/21 1:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> >>> On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia  
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>   I do have a Rpi3
> >> ...
> >>> I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
> >>
> >> I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis have 
> >> the Ethernet in the USB bus.
> > 
> > I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently it 
> > has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB 
> > apparently.
> > 
> > John
> 
> Huh? That makes no sense. If nothing else, you can use it for fake swap 
> if nothing else.
> 
> RPi is NOT good for any industrial use. This thing is for kids to learn 
> Linux and open source programming techniques. RaspberryPi PCB design is 
> just bad for industrial use: holes for mounting, using glue for CPU 
> heatsink, connectors positions and their orientation, sandwich style 
> header connector for DIO, silicon waste (for sound and video IO), etc.
> 
> To execute G-code using a large footprint computer makes no sense 
> anymore. This open source based solution is gaining popularity for 
> simple CNC:
> https://openbuildspartstore.com/interface/  and other related HW.

Don't know if GRBL + SBC is better than RPi+GRBL - it's just costs more.


> 
> Just the fact that Openbuilds is not using LinuxCNC is saying something. 
> Dead end: no innovations, limitation in electronics/hardware selection.
> 
> 



-- 
Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with 
the NSA, CIA ...


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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 6/13/21 1:49 AM, John Dammeyer wrote:

From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]

On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:

  I do have a Rpi3

...

I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.


I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis have the 
Ethernet in the USB bus.


I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently it has 
issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB apparently.

John


Huh? That makes no sense. If nothing else, you can use it for fake swap 
if nothing else.


RPi is NOT good for any industrial use. This thing is for kids to learn 
Linux and open source programming techniques. RaspberryPi PCB design is 
just bad for industrial use: holes for mounting, using glue for CPU 
heatsink, connectors positions and their orientation, sandwich style 
header connector for DIO, silicon waste (for sound and video IO), etc.


To execute G-code using a large footprint computer makes no sense 
anymore. This open source based solution is gaining popularity for 
simple CNC:

https://openbuildspartstore.com/interface/  and other related HW.

Just the fact that Openbuilds is not using LinuxCNC is saying something. 
Dead end: no innovations, limitation in electronics/hardware selection.



--
Rafael Skodlar


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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Chris Albertson]

My point was you could free up the Raspberry  Pi, you don't need it if the
printer is within a cable length of anything that already runs LinuxCNC.
Then you are a "free" Pi to experiment with

On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 5:39 PM Leonardo Marsaglia 
wrote:

> Well, the portability is not a must, but the idea of having all the major
> hardware as compact as possible really tempts me to at least consider the
> idea. For the other machines I used mini ATX with one PCI express port to
> accommodate the Mesa board. For this project I'm inclined to use an
> Ethernet card just to simplify the hardware mounting on the cabinet. And
> since the Rpi 4 is growing in popularity here, I just needed to ask to see
> if it's worth the try.
>
> With octoprint the Rpi 3 is working flawlessly really, although that
> doesn't have to do what LCNC has to do, and also I'm not even using the
> GUI.
>
> El sáb, 12 jun 2021 a las 20:58, Chris Albertson (<
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com>)
> escribió:
>
> > Why does the control computer need to be portable, unless you are
> building
> > a portable router and want the whole machine to be easy to move?
> >
> > As for Octoprint, I use a standard PC (an older i5 with about 8 GB RAM.)
> f
> >  In fact, the very same PC runs both LinuxCNC and Octoprint at the same
> > time just fine without coming close to using all the available CPU.  RT
> > Linux makes sure the bits of EMC that need to run in the real-time run in
> > real-time   Even with streaming video and a remote log-in, the PC is not
> > half loaded and neither is the gigabit Ethernet.  PCs are so much more
> > powerful then RPI.
> >
> > I use the Pi4 for mobile robots that need to run on battery power but I
> > don't see the point with AC mains power is available.
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 12, 2021 at 4:28 PM Leonardo Marsaglia <
> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello guys,
> > >
> > > As  some of you know, I'm finishing a CNC router and I'm about to
> > purchase
> > > all the control hardware. I know Gene, John, and several people here
> are
> > > running LCNC on the PI with success but I would like to know how much
> of
> > a
> > > pain in the ass is to get it running well with a 7i76E for controlling
> > the
> > > router.
> > >
> > > I'm trying to decide wheter I purchase Rpi 4b or I use a normal PC as
> > I've
> > > been doing with all the other machines. I really like the idea of using
> > > something as portable and small as the Rpi but I don't want to purchase
> > one
> > > just to test right now... I do have a Rpi3 with Octoprint on the ender
> > but
> > > I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
> > >
> > > What do you guys think?
> > >
> > > Thanks as always and I hope you're all doing well :)
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> ___
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[Andrew]

нд, 13 черв. 2021 о 16:05 andrew beck  пише:

> Yeah sweet.  The linuxcnc stuff doesn't phase me.  Especially with all the
> wonderful help that surrounds the project.
> But making the g code is what scares me lol
>
> Do you have any hints on how you did that?
>
> You have to consider the relative movement of the part and the grinding
wheel.
For instance, the wheel goes along the endmill blank and the blank rotates.
The code is very simple like G1 X[something] A[something] F100 but you have
to use parameters to calculate the coordinates. SIN COS TAN ASIN etc are
your friends. And there have to be cycles to go deeper step by step and
machine all the flutes.
You can use a cup or dish wheel to form the flutes (just rotated to an
angle different from the flute angle), but it's difficult to calculate
everything because in the actual 3D movement the cup wheel undercuts a lot
more than it seems on the projected sketch.
Grinding the flutes is the simplest part, though ))

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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Ralph Stirling]

It does take a bit more fiddling to get everything going on the Rpi 4B, but it 
seems to run pretty nicely once done.  I don't have experience using it with a 
7i76e, as most of us use it with the $45 7i90.  If you don't need hardwired 
ethernet for communication with the 4B, then you can certainly use it for any 
Mesa ethernet card like the 7i92 or the 7i76e (if I'm remembering what a 7i76e 
is).

-- Ralph

On Jun 12, 2021 4:25 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


Hello guys,

As  some of you know, I'm finishing a CNC router and I'm about to purchase
all the control hardware. I know Gene, John, and several people here are
running LCNC on the PI with success but I would like to know how much of a
pain in the ass is to get it running well with a 7i76E for controlling the
router.

I'm trying to decide wheter I purchase Rpi 4b or I use a normal PC as I've
been doing with all the other machines. I really like the idea of using
something as portable and small as the Rpi but I don't want to purchase one
just to test right now... I do have a Rpi3 with Octoprint on the ender but
I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.

What do you guys think?

Thanks as always and I hope you're all doing well :)

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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Feral Engineer]

I'm running a 4gb pi4b on my Emco lathe with minimal issue. My pulses per
unit are really high because of the screw pitch and belt reduction from the
emco factory, but it still seems to get along nicely with the rest of the
machine.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 9:29 AM Sam Sokolik  wrote:

> I have been happy with it.
> Not been using the PI for production - mostly just tinkering.Doing some
> pretty complicated configs.
>
> I have had it up for many days at a time with no issues...  Running
> programs that run hours...
>
> sam
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 4:37 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> > On Sunday 13 June 2021 04:49:19 John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> > > > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > > >
> > > > > On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >  I do have a Rpi3
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > > I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis
> > > > have the Ethernet in the USB bus.
> > >
> > > I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently
> > > it has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB
> > > apparently.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > My 2 Gig rpi4 is perhaps a bit crowded. ATM its showing an uptime of
> > 18.75 days, and is 160 megs into swap. Swap itself is a 10G partition on
> > a 120G SSD, separate from the 240 G work drive so that is working at
> > USB3 speeds. I don't consider 160 megs to be a problem child unless it
> > impacts the uptime, which at times has been several months as its on a
> > small ups and I have automatic backup power that limits downtime to
> > about 10 seconds even if the neighborhood is dark for hours. Recall that
> > this pi is building and installing master or master-gtk3 many times a
> > week. That is working harder than running LCNC.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
> >  - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
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> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Sam Sokolik]

I have been happy with it.
Not been using the PI for production - mostly just tinkering.Doing some
pretty complicated configs.

I have had it up for many days at a time with no issues...  Running
programs that run hours...

sam


On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 4:37 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Sunday 13 June 2021 04:49:19 John Dammeyer wrote:
>
> > > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > >
> > > > On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia
> > > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  I do have a Rpi3
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > > I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
> > >
> > > I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis
> > > have the Ethernet in the USB bus.
> >
> > I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently
> > it has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB
> > apparently.
> >
> > John
> >
> My 2 Gig rpi4 is perhaps a bit crowded. ATM its showing an uptime of
> 18.75 days, and is 160 megs into swap. Swap itself is a 10G partition on
> a 120G SSD, separate from the 240 G work drive so that is working at
> USB3 speeds. I don't consider 160 megs to be a problem child unless it
> impacts the uptime, which at times has been several months as its on a
> small ups and I have automatic backup power that limits downtime to
> about 10 seconds even if the neighborhood is dark for hours. Recall that
> this pi is building and installing master or master-gtk3 many times a
> week. That is working harder than running LCNC.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[andrew beck]

Yeah sweet.  The linuxcnc stuff doesn't phase me.  Especially with all the
wonderful help that surrounds the project.
But making the g code is what scares me lol

Do you have any hints on how you did that?

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 1:00 AM Andrew  wrote:

> нд, 13 черв. 2021 о 15:30 andrew beck  пише:
>
> > I would love to talk to you then mate
> >
> > Sure, no problem!
> What I'm saying is this retrofit is not too different from, say, a 5-axis
> mill. You can use 7i92 with 7i77 or 7i76 for instance...
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[Andrew]

нд, 13 черв. 2021 о 15:30 andrew beck  пише:

> I would love to talk to you then mate
>
> Sure, no problem!
What I'm saying is this retrofit is not too different from, say, a 5-axis
mill. You can use 7i92 with 7i77 or 7i76 for instance...

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Re: [Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[andrew beck]

I would love to talk to you then mate

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 12:19 AM Andrew  wrote:

> нд, 13 черв. 2021 о 11:06 andrew beck  пише:
>
> > Hey guys what do you think about a 5 axis retrofit of a cnc grinder?
>  What
> > would be required to get one going?
> >
> > I actually retrofitted a 4-axis Walter grinder a few years back. I also
> made a CNC controller for a DIY 6-axis grinder built from scratch. All with
> LinuxCNC, of course.
> Like Andy says, the hardest part is making G-code.
> In the first case, I wrote some parametric code for them to grind endmill
> flutes. In the second case, the guy makes G-code himself.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[Andrew]

нд, 13 черв. 2021 о 11:06 andrew beck  пише:

> Hey guys what do you think about a 5 axis retrofit of a cnc grinder?   What
> would be required to get one going?
>
> I actually retrofitted a 4-axis Walter grinder a few years back. I also
made a CNC controller for a DIY 6-axis grinder built from scratch. All with
LinuxCNC, of course.
Like Andy says, the hardest part is making G-code.
In the first case, I wrote some parametric code for them to grind endmill
flutes. In the second case, the guy makes G-code himself.

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Re: [Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[andrew beck]

Yeah definitely be cool.  I'll see what it goes for.  And then decide if I
want to go down this track or not.


It would be nice to get into variable helix cutters also but that might be
getting a bit two complicated.

Its a 3 ton machine lol

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 10:33 PM Andy Pugh  wrote:

>
>
> > On 13 Jun 2021, at 09:43, andrew beck  wrote:
> >
> > Just don't want to have to model everything up plus work out how to cam
> it
>
> So, maybe a custom GUI. Where you enter the cutter parameters and a series
> of buttons calling standard g-code routines that use that data. (Primary
> end relief, nose radius, side flute etc)
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[Andy Pugh]

> On 13 Jun 2021, at 09:43, andrew beck  wrote:
> 
> Just don't want to have to model everything up plus work out how to cam it

So, maybe a custom GUI. Where you enter the cutter parameters and a series of 
buttons calling standard g-code routines that use that data. (Primary end 
relief, nose radius, side flute etc)

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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 13 June 2021 04:49:19 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> >
> > > On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia
> > >  wrote:
> > >
> > >  I do have a Rpi3
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
> >
> > I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis
> > have the Ethernet in the USB bus.
>
> I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently
> it has issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB
> apparently.
>
> John
>
My 2 Gig rpi4 is perhaps a bit crowded. ATM its showing an uptime of 
18.75 days, and is 160 megs into swap. Swap itself is a 10G partition on 
a 120G SSD, separate from the 240 G work drive so that is working at 
USB3 speeds. I don't consider 160 megs to be a problem child unless it 
impacts the uptime, which at times has been several months as its on a 
small ups and I have automatic backup power that limits downtime to 
about 10 seconds even if the neighborhood is dark for hours. Recall that 
this pi is building and installing master or master-gtk3 many times a 
week. That is working harder than running LCNC.
>
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Andy Pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:
> >
> >  I do have a Rpi3
> ...
> > I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.
> 
> I wouldn�t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis have the 
> Ethernet in the USB bus.

I've also read that the Pi4 8GB is not ideal for LinuxCNC.  Apparently it has 
issues with that much memory on the Pi.  It works best with 4GB apparently.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[andrew beck]

Yes that's the hard bit.

I can get it going again piece of cake.

Just don't want to have to model everything up plus work out how to cam it

Would be awesome to have though.  I do a lot of injection molds on my Linux
cnc machines and am keen as to make custom cutters

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, 8:38 PM Andy Pugh  wrote:

>
>
> > On 13 Jun 2021, at 09:06, andrew beck  wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys what do you think about a 5 axis retrofit of a cnc grinder?
>  What
> > would be required to get one going?
>
> It should be fairly easy to get going mechanically. Some cunning g-code
> might be needed to write universal routines.  You probably don’t want to be
> trying to model and CAM every cutter.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Question about Raspberry Pi 4 reliability

[Andy Pugh]

> On 13 Jun 2021, at 00:28, Leonardo Marsaglia  wrote:
> 
>  I do have a Rpi3 
...
> I don't know if that's a good candidate to test LCNC.

I wouldn’t expect the 3B to work with Mesa Ethernet as the pre-4 Pis have the 
Ethernet in the USB bus. 

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Re: [Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[Andy Pugh]

> On 13 Jun 2021, at 09:06, andrew beck  wrote:
> 
> Hey guys what do you think about a 5 axis retrofit of a cnc grinder?   What
> would be required to get one going?

It should be fairly easy to get going mechanically. Some cunning g-code might 
be needed to write universal routines.  You probably don’t want to be trying to 
model and CAM every cutter. 




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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control

[John Dammeyer]

So here's the photo with the Pi4 1GB running LinuxCNC.  The 4 roller switches 
are the three homes and the shared limit for the other axis.  Normally there 
would be 3 in series.  The orange paddle switch is estop.  The cable to these 
switches goes to the 7i92H P2.DB25.

On the P1 connector I have the Probotix BoB.  No isolation needed for testing 
so it's powered from the same supply on both sides.  I have the scope on Pins 
2,3 of what would be the second DB25.  

Now if I plug a motor into the step/dir outputs of the BoB it should spin the 
motor based on requested spindle RPM.

Been a good day.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: June-13-21 1:05 AM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control
> 
> No worries.  Found the solution.
> I have spindle.0.speed-out-rps connected to spindle-cmd  which  ends up being 
> a signed float.
> 
> net spindle-cmd <= spindle.0.speed-out-rps
> 
> And that's connected to the stepgen
> net spindle-cmd =>  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-cmd
> 
> Results in my P1.19_DB25.2 showing a square wave on the scope when I toggle 
> the axis CW and click on the speed.  Change to CCW
> and click speed again I get the square wave on the scope and the P1.23_DB25.3 
> changes to a logic high for a change in direction.
> 
> More when I test it with a motor.
> John
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Spindle control

[John Dammeyer]

No worries.  Found the solution.
I have spindle.0.speed-out-rps connected to spindle-cmd  which  ends up being a 
signed float.

net spindle-cmd <= spindle.0.speed-out-rps

And that's connected to the stepgen
net spindle-cmd =>  hm2_7i92.0.stepgen.05.velocity-cmd

Results in my P1.19_DB25.2 showing a square wave on the scope when I toggle the 
axis CW and click on the speed.  Change to CCW and click speed again I get the 
square wave on the scope and the P1.23_DB25.3 changes to a logic high for a 
change in direction.

More when I test it with a motor.
John



> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: June-12-21 11:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Spindle control
> 
> I'm having a problem understanding how to control a spindle with step/dir 
> rather than PWM.
> 
> From what I've read on
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html
> 
> essentially the spindle speed is a positive number and the M3 and M4 commands 
> are connected to whatever pin(s) controls the
> direction of the spindle, if it can even change direction.
> 
> OTOH, from what I can see about the different axis like XY & Z is that the 
> velocity request is signed.  And the stepgen takes the
> absolute value of that to set the step rate and the sign to set the direction.
> 
> What I can't figure out is how to translate that so that a stepgen running 
> the spindle can control the direction.
> 
> Where the PWM direction is controlled by
> 
> # PWM dir pin config
> setp   hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.is_output true
> net spindle-ccw  =>  hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out
> 
> and the initial direction of a stepgen is handled with a positive or negative 
> stepscale
> 
> This thread
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/30638-how-to-change-motor-spin-directions
> 
> in a way addresses the problem but not with stepgen.
> 
> In my HAL file I have:
> net spindle-ccw<=  motion.spindle-reverse
> 
> How would I use spindle-ccw to control the value of a stepgen direction?
> 
> Or would I somehow change the requested velocity to be +/- so the stepgen 
> properly controls the direction output.
> 
> Is there an easy way?
> Thanks
> John Dammeyer
> 
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[Emc-users] Possible cnc end mill grinder retro

[andrew beck]

Hey guys what do you think about a 5 axis retrofit of a cnc grinder?   What
would be required to get one going?

Just thinking about it and looking for ideas

I currently run a tooling company so being able to make custom tools would
be so great.

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[Emc-users] Spindle control

[John Dammeyer]

I'm having a problem understanding how to control a spindle with step/dir 
rather than PWM.
 
>From what I've read on 
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/examples/spindle.html
 
essentially the spindle speed is a positive number and the M3 and M4 commands 
are connected to whatever pin(s) controls the direction of the spindle, if it 
can even change direction.
 
OTOH, from what I can see about the different axis like XY & Z is that the 
velocity request is signed.  And the stepgen takes the absolute value of that 
to set the step rate and the sign to set the direction.
 
What I can't figure out is how to translate that so that a stepgen running the 
spindle can control the direction.
 
Where the PWM direction is controlled by
 
# PWM dir pin config 
setp   hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.is_output true
net spindle-ccw  =>  hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out
 
and the initial direction of a stepgen is handled with a positive or negative 
stepscale
 
This thread
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/24-hal-components/30638-how-to-change-motor-spin-directions
 
in a way addresses the problem but not with stepgen.
 
In my HAL file I have:
net spindle-ccw<=  motion.spindle-reverse
 
How would I use spindle-ccw to control the value of a stepgen direction?
 
Or would I somehow change the requested velocity to be +/- so the stepgen 
properly controls the direction output.
 
Is there an easy way?
Thanks 
John Dammeyer

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