Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[andrew beck]

Found it!   wrong value resistor.

I read the multimeter wrong lol

Thanks for the patience Peter!

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 5:01 PM andrew beck  wrote:

> Just checked that.  State 1=5v state 2 =0v
>
> What else should I check?
>
> On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 4:54 PM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:
>>
>> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:49:05 +1200
>> > From: andrew beck 
>> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>> > 
>> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
>> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card
>> looking for
>> > configs to study
>> >
>> > also just confirming that the
>> >
>> > hm2_7i92.0.encoder.03.input-index doesn't change state.
>> >
>> > I can see a few options to change.
>> >
>> > should I change to the IDX/ input?
>> >
>> > or should I change the value of resistor?
>>
>>
>> You should measure the voltage at the prox output/index input
>> in both states. It should be lower than .7V in one state and
>> higher than 3V in the other.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > regards
>> >
>> > Andrew
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:46 PM andrew beck 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> just confirming that I hava a 265ohm resistor between ground and the
>> >> encoder index input
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:39 PM Peter C. Wallace 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:
>> >>>
>>  Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:21:05 +1200
>>  From: andrew beck 
>>  Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>>  
>>  To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
>> >>> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card
>> >>> looking for
>>  configs to study
>> 
>>  hey Peter
>> 
>>  using a 7i77 mesa card
>> 
>>  I just tried my PNP sensor now i have wired up the ground and 5v
>> >>> correctly
>>  and have the signal wire into the pin 7  which is the index
>> channel.  I
>>  have also changed the jumper for the index channel to single ended
>>  operation.
>> 
>>  it doesn't work...  what am I doing wrong?
>> 
>>  also I am testing by using the command setp hm2 7i92
>>  encoder.03.index.enable 1  (etc  command probably is wrong here as I
>> am
>>  working from memory but it changes the pin color in hal configurator)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  I can see the proxy is switching as the led turns off and on at the
>> back
>> >>> of
>>  the thing
>> 
>>  for reference here is the link to the proxy I am using
>> 
>> 
>> >>>
>> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867535621.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3a3b4c4d5BJjid
>> 
>>  On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 AM Peter C. Wallace 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> I would check the prox voltage ouput voltage in both states
>> >>>
>> >>> You can check the index state directly in hal by monitoring
>> >>> hm2_7i92.0.encoder.0N.input-index (N is the  encoder channel
>> >>> you are testing) I think this is inverted from the pin state.
>> >>>
>> >>> Note that if you do not have the stiff (270 Ohm or so) pull down
>> >>> resistor, the prox output will always be high (around 5V)
>> >>>
>> >>> Peter Wallace
>> >>> Mesa Electronics
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Emc-users mailing list
>> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> >
>>
>> Peter Wallace
>> Mesa Electronics
>>
>> (\__/)
>> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
>> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[andrew beck]

Just checked that.  State 1=5v state 2 =0v

What else should I check?

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 4:54 PM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:
>
> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:49:05 +1200
> > From: andrew beck 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card
> looking for
> > configs to study
> >
> > also just confirming that the
> >
> > hm2_7i92.0.encoder.03.input-index doesn't change state.
> >
> > I can see a few options to change.
> >
> > should I change to the IDX/ input?
> >
> > or should I change the value of resistor?
>
>
> You should measure the voltage at the prox output/index input
> in both states. It should be lower than .7V in one state and
> higher than 3V in the other.
>
>
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:46 PM andrew beck 
> wrote:
> >
> >> just confirming that I hava a 265ohm resistor between ground and the
> >> encoder index input
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:39 PM Peter C. Wallace 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:
> >>>
>  Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:21:05 +1200
>  From: andrew beck 
>  Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>  
>  To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
> >>> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card
> >>> looking for
>  configs to study
> 
>  hey Peter
> 
>  using a 7i77 mesa card
> 
>  I just tried my PNP sensor now i have wired up the ground and 5v
> >>> correctly
>  and have the signal wire into the pin 7  which is the index channel.
> I
>  have also changed the jumper for the index channel to single ended
>  operation.
> 
>  it doesn't work...  what am I doing wrong?
> 
>  also I am testing by using the command setp hm2 7i92
>  encoder.03.index.enable 1  (etc  command probably is wrong here as I
> am
>  working from memory but it changes the pin color in hal configurator)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  I can see the proxy is switching as the led turns off and on at the
> back
> >>> of
>  the thing
> 
>  for reference here is the link to the proxy I am using
> 
> 
> >>>
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867535621.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3a3b4c4d5BJjid
> 
>  On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 AM Peter C. Wallace 
> wrote:
> 
> >>>
> >>> I would check the prox voltage ouput voltage in both states
> >>>
> >>> You can check the index state directly in hal by monitoring
> >>> hm2_7i92.0.encoder.0N.input-index (N is the  encoder channel
> >>> you are testing) I think this is inverted from the pin state.
> >>>
> >>> Note that if you do not have the stiff (270 Ohm or so) pull down
> >>> resistor, the prox output will always be high (around 5V)
> >>>
> >>> Peter Wallace
> >>> Mesa Electronics
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Emc-users mailing list
> >>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:49:05 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for
configs to study

also just confirming that the

hm2_7i92.0.encoder.03.input-index doesn't change state.

I can see a few options to change.

should I change to the IDX/ input?

or should I change the value of resistor?



You should measure the voltage at the prox output/index input
in both states. It should be lower than .7V in one state and
higher than 3V in the other.




regards

Andrew

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:46 PM andrew beck  wrote:


just confirming that I hava a 265ohm resistor between ground and the
encoder index input


On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:39 PM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:


On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:21:05 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <

emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card

looking for

configs to study

hey Peter

using a 7i77 mesa card

I just tried my PNP sensor now i have wired up the ground and 5v

correctly

and have the signal wire into the pin 7  which is the index channel.  I
have also changed the jumper for the index channel to single ended
operation.

it doesn't work...  what am I doing wrong?

also I am testing by using the command setp hm2 7i92
encoder.03.index.enable 1  (etc  command probably is wrong here as I am
working from memory but it changes the pin color in hal configurator)





I can see the proxy is switching as the led turns off and on at the back

of

the thing

for reference here is the link to the proxy I am using



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867535621.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3a3b4c4d5BJjid


On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:



I would check the prox voltage ouput voltage in both states

You can check the index state directly in hal by monitoring
hm2_7i92.0.encoder.0N.input-index (N is the  encoder channel
you are testing) I think this is inverted from the pin state.

Note that if you do not have the stiff (270 Ohm or so) pull down
resistor, the prox output will always be high (around 5V)

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
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(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.



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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[andrew beck]

also just confirming that the

hm2_7i92.0.encoder.03.input-index doesn't change state.

I can see a few options to change.

should I change to the IDX/ input?

or should I change the value of resistor?

regards

Andrew

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:46 PM andrew beck  wrote:

> just confirming that I hava a 265ohm resistor between ground and the
> encoder index input
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:39 PM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:
>>
>> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:21:05 +1200
>> > From: andrew beck 
>> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>> > 
>> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" <
>> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
>> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card
>> looking for
>> > configs to study
>> >
>> > hey Peter
>> >
>> >using a 7i77 mesa card
>> >
>> >I just tried my PNP sensor now i have wired up the ground and 5v
>> correctly
>> >and have the signal wire into the pin 7  which is the index channel.  I
>> >have also changed the jumper for the index channel to single ended
>> >operation.
>> >
>> >it doesn't work...  what am I doing wrong?
>> >
>> >also I am testing by using the command setp hm2 7i92
>> >encoder.03.index.enable 1  (etc  command probably is wrong here as I am
>> >working from memory but it changes the pin color in hal configurator)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >I can see the proxy is switching as the led turns off and on at the back
>> of
>> >the thing
>> >
>> >for reference here is the link to the proxy I am using
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867535621.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3a3b4c4d5BJjid
>> >
>> >On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>> >
>>
>> I would check the prox voltage ouput voltage in both states
>>
>> You can check the index state directly in hal by monitoring
>> hm2_7i92.0.encoder.0N.input-index (N is the  encoder channel
>> you are testing) I think this is inverted from the pin state.
>>
>> Note that if you do not have the stiff (270 Ohm or so) pull down
>> resistor, the prox output will always be high (around 5V)
>>
>> Peter Wallace
>> Mesa Electronics
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[andrew beck]

just confirming that I hava a 265ohm resistor between ground and the
encoder index input


On Fri, Jul 9, 2021 at 4:39 PM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:
>
> > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:21:05 +1200
> > From: andrew beck 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card
> looking for
> > configs to study
> >
> > hey Peter
> >
> >using a 7i77 mesa card
> >
> >I just tried my PNP sensor now i have wired up the ground and 5v correctly
> >and have the signal wire into the pin 7  which is the index channel.  I
> >have also changed the jumper for the index channel to single ended
> >operation.
> >
> >it doesn't work...  what am I doing wrong?
> >
> >also I am testing by using the command setp hm2 7i92
> >encoder.03.index.enable 1  (etc  command probably is wrong here as I am
> >working from memory but it changes the pin color in hal configurator)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I can see the proxy is switching as the led turns off and on at the back
> of
> >the thing
> >
> >for reference here is the link to the proxy I am using
> >
> >
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867535621.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3a3b4c4d5BJjid
> >
> >On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
> >
>
> I would check the prox voltage ouput voltage in both states
>
> You can check the index state directly in hal by monitoring
> hm2_7i92.0.encoder.0N.input-index (N is the  encoder channel
> you are testing) I think this is inverted from the pin state.
>
> Note that if you do not have the stiff (270 Ohm or so) pull down
> resistor, the prox output will always be high (around 5V)
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, andrew beck wrote:


Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 16:21:05 +1200
From: andrew beck 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for
configs to study

hey Peter

using a 7i77 mesa card

I just tried my PNP sensor now i have wired up the ground and 5v correctly
and have the signal wire into the pin 7  which is the index channel.  I
have also changed the jumper for the index channel to single ended
operation.

it doesn't work...  what am I doing wrong?

also I am testing by using the command setp hm2 7i92
encoder.03.index.enable 1  (etc  command probably is wrong here as I am
working from memory but it changes the pin color in hal configurator)





I can see the proxy is switching as the led turns off and on at the back of
the thing

for reference here is the link to the proxy I am using

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867535621.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3a3b4c4d5BJjid

On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:



I would check the prox voltage ouput voltage in both states

You can check the index state directly in hal by monitoring
hm2_7i92.0.encoder.0N.input-index (N is the  encoder channel
you are testing) I think this is inverted from the pin state.

Note that if you do not have the stiff (270 Ohm or so) pull down
resistor, the prox output will always be high (around 5V)

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card looking for configs to study

[andrew beck]

hey Peter

using a 7i77 mesa card

I just tried my PNP sensor now i have wired up the ground and 5v correctly
and have the signal wire into the pin 7  which is the index channel.  I
have also changed the jumper for the index channel to single ended
operation.

it doesn't work...  what am I doing wrong?

also I am testing by using the command setp hm2 7i92
encoder.03.index.enable 1  (etc  command probably is wrong here as I am
working from memory but it changes the pin color in hal configurator)


I can see the proxy is switching as the led turns off and on at the back of
the thing

for reference here is the link to the proxy I am using

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32867535621.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3a3b4c4d5BJjid

On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 7:37 AM Peter C. Wallace  wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Jul 2021, andy pugh wrote:
>
> > Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 15:25:37 +0100
> > From: andy pugh 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"  >
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] spindle orientation help for a 7i77 card
> looking for
> > configs to study
> >
> > On Wed, 7 Jul 2021 at 15:20, Peter C. Wallace  wrote:
>
> > Also some NPN prox's have built in pullups so may source 24V to the
> > output when off.
>
> >Would a 5.2V zener at the terminal block be a sensible precaution?
>
> Yes, a Zener woud protect the encoder input
>
> (actually the 7I77 encoder input chip is OK to 25V,
> but the 2K pullup resistor would be damaged)
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> яя George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
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>
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> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 08 July 2021 21:27:17 Chris Albertson wrote:

> cura -> preferences -> profiles -> import
> Then select your file.

It won't let me import it because it does, if a profile exists, it 
clashes with that profiles "base" file.

exit cura, and clean out all previous cfg files, leaving nothing for cura 
to load, and the add printers screen comes up on launch, blocking access 
to any menu, and the add screen has no import button.

> I don't know if simply moving the file works.
>
> If you need to know here it is kept you can always search for the
> filename after you import it. but I think it is inside something like
> $HOME/cura/appdata/...

I put a copy of the file in the ~/me/.local/share/cura/4.10.0 directory, 
but the only way to get to the import button is to have previously added 
a printer, but then it apparently try's to apply it to the existing 
printer, which of course fails, so I'm painted into a corner. Without a 
working printer to make fixes with. The only option offered when this 
clash occurs, is a reset, which it says will remove all printers.

I think this is a bug, but where do I report it?, so we get a 4.10.1 
AppImage that actually works quickly.

Thanks Chris.

> On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 6:06 PM Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I have the u-sd card that came with a new BIQU BX printer, one of
> > the high priced things that has ALL the bells and whistles.
> >
> > Unforch, cura only know about the B1, which has a different
> > printhead, and the extrusion rate is several times too high, and the
> > printer won't let me change it, no clue why.
> >
> > But the u-sd card has a BIQU BX file on it, but I have NDI where to
> > put it in /home/me/.local/ to put it where looks when you add a
> > printer, and by the proper name since it doesn't match anything
> > there now.
> >
> > It looks like this now:
> >
> > ls -l "/media/sde1/Setting flies"
> > total 4448
> > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4490020 Dec 14  2020 3DBenchy-cr.gcode
> > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root3116 Dec 14  2020 BIQU-BX configuration
> > file.curaprofile
> >
> > Anybody know where I should copy it to, and what I should name it
> > when I do copy it there?
> >
> > Thanks all.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 18:16:15 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.


From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]

From: John Dammeyer 

Maybe it's a MESA issue?  It's set up as output type 1 which is 0-100% which
means either the Out2 should invert when pwmgen gets negative?  Or the output
should clip to 0 when the calculation determines a negative output.
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen


PWM mode 1 is basically sign-manitude mode so if you connect
the PWM direction to the drives direction control,
and give signed command and feedback inputs to the PID
it should work properly.

I don't understand that Peter.  The PIN file for my device doesn't have an 
explicit PWM Direction controlled by the PWM module.  And in either case the 
potential for a random change in direction as it approaches 0 RPM is 
unacceptable behavior for a spindle.



This is required behavior if you wish to control the velocity around 0
via PID



What should the pwmgen do when hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value is assigned a 
negative value if it's configured with setp hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.output-type 1


The PWM duty cycle should be the same for positive and negative numbers
(only the direction pin will change), This is what is meant by sign-magnitude



If there isn't anything in the PIN file that assigned a direction output to 
the pwmgen shouldn't the PWM output pin then stay at 0?  For the spindle it's 
not safe to have the pwmgen decide to change the direction because the 
response to slowing down isn't fast enough so the error term goes negative.


If you need a valid direction signal, you could use the absolute functions
sign bit as Andy suggested. This is like the only way to get a stable PID
because if you have 0 output for negative number you have a nonlinearity
the PID cannot really deal well with.

If you really want 0 output for negative PWM values, you could choise
PWM mode2 (up/down mode)



I'll just double check again to see if indeed a negative value is assigned 
into 00.value.


It should not, that would be contrary to mode 1's definition







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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[Chris Albertson]

cura -> preferences -> profiles -> import
Then select your file.

I don't know if simply moving the file works.

If you need to know here it is kept you can always search for the filename
after you import it. but I think it is inside something like
$HOME/cura/appdata/...

On Thu, Jul 8, 2021 at 6:06 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> I have the u-sd card that came with a new BIQU BX printer, one of the
> high priced things that has ALL the bells and whistles.
>
> Unforch, cura only know about the B1, which has a different printhead,
> and the extrusion rate is several times too high, and the printer won't
> let me change it, no clue why.
>
> But the u-sd card has a BIQU BX file on it, but I have NDI where to put
> it in /home/me/.local/ to put it where looks when you add a printer,
> and by the proper name since it doesn't match anything there now.
>
> It looks like this now:
>
> ls -l "/media/sde1/Setting flies"
> total 4448
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4490020 Dec 14  2020 3DBenchy-cr.gcode
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root3116 Dec 14  2020 BIQU-BX configuration
> file.curaprofile
>
> Anybody know where I should copy it to, and what I should name it when
> I do copy it there?
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> > From: John Dammeyer 
> >
> > Maybe it's a MESA issue?  It's set up as output type 1 which is 0-100% which
> > means either the Out2 should invert when pwmgen gets negative?  Or the 
> > output
> > should clip to 0 when the calculation determines a negative output.
> >http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen
> 
> PWM mode 1 is basically sign-manitude mode so if you connect
> the PWM direction to the drives direction control,
> and give signed command and feedback inputs to the PID
> it should work properly.
> 
I don't understand that Peter.  The PIN file for my device doesn't have an 
explicit PWM Direction controlled by the PWM module.  And in either case the 
potential for a random change in direction as it approaches 0 RPM is 
unacceptable behavior for a spindle.

What should the pwmgen do when
hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value is assigned a negative value if it's configured with
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.output-type  1

If there isn't anything in the PIN file that assigned a direction output to the 
pwmgen shouldn't the PWM output pin then stay at 0?  For the spindle it's not 
safe to have the pwmgen decide to change the direction because the response to 
slowing down isn't fast enough so the error term goes negative.

I'll just double check again to see if indeed a negative value is assigned into 
00.value.





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[Emc-users] off topic: cura profile for BIQU BX 3d printer

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I have the u-sd card that came with a new BIQU BX printer, one of the 
high priced things that has ALL the bells and whistles.

Unforch, cura only know about the B1, which has a different printhead,
and the extrusion rate is several times too high, and the printer won't
let me change it, no clue why.

But the u-sd card has a BIQU BX file on it, but I have NDI where to put
it in /home/me/.local/ to put it where looks when you add a printer,
and by the proper name since it doesn't match anything there now. 

It looks like this now:

ls -l "/media/sde1/Setting flies"
total 4448
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 4490020 Dec 14  2020 3DBenchy-cr.gcode
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root3116 Dec 14  2020 BIQU-BX configuration 
file.curaprofile

Anybody know where I should copy it to, and what I should name it when 
I do copy it there?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2021 17:17:09 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

Maybe it's a MESA issue?  It's set up as output type 1 which is 0-100% which 
means either the Out2 should invert when pwmgen gets negative?  Or the output 
should clip to 0 when the calculation determines a negative output.

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen


PWM mode 1 is basically sign-manitude mode so if you connect
the PWM direction to the drives direction control,
and give signed command and feedback inputs to the PID
it should work properly.

BTW this is commented out. 
setp   pid.s.maxerror .0005
If I set it to 0.05 then the spindle does stop but now the PID isn't very 
responsive.  I have to add large amounts of P and I to get it to stabilize 
quickly and at 100RPM it then surges


Set it to 0.5 and it goes wonky with the negative error again.  Any smaller 
than 0.05 and response is so poor that it's really not a manageable system.


I could just switch over to using step/dir and do away with the PWM but that 
likely won't solve the closed loop problem.   The AC Servo by itself is 
responsive and stable.  But the pulley ratio means what I tell it isn't what 
it's doing and that's an issue for tapping.


John




-Original Message-
From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: July-08-21 4:25 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 00:21, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> Oh and I was using this series of postings as a guide.
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/32553-spindle-pid-control
> but he never ran into this issue.  Same with the other postings where they 
have problems achieving the speed.  Not running away
with a negative correction.

I have had exactly your problem in the past, but I can't remember how
I fixed it, as it was years ago.

But it was definitely caused by the PID going negative, but negative
output giving positive speed/

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
?? George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[John Dammeyer]

Maybe it's a MESA issue?  It's set up as output type 1 which is 0-100% which 
means either the Out2 should invert when pwmgen gets negative?   Or the output 
should clip to 0 when the calculation determines a negative output. 
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/hostmot2.9.html#pwmgen

BTW this is commented out.   
setp   pid.s.maxerror .0005
If I set it to 0.05 then the spindle does stop but now the PID isn't very 
responsive.  I have to add large amounts of P and I to get it to stabilize 
quickly and at 100RPM it then surges

Set it to 0.5 and it goes wonky with the negative error again.  Any smaller 
than 0.05 and response is so poor that it's really not a manageable system.

I could just switch over to using step/dir and do away with the PWM but that 
likely won't solve the closed loop problem.   The AC Servo by itself is 
responsive and stable.  But the pulley ratio means what I tell it isn't what 
it's doing and that's an issue for tapping.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-08-21 4:25 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> 
> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 00:21, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > Oh and I was using this series of postings as a guide.
> > https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/32553-spindle-pid-control
> > but he never ran into this issue.  Same with the other postings where they 
> > have problems achieving the speed.  Not running away
> with a negative correction.
> 
> I have had exactly your problem in the past, but I can't remember how
> I fixed it, as it was years ago.
> 
> But it was definitely caused by the PID going negative, but negative
> output giving positive speed/
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 at 00:21, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> Oh and I was using this series of postings as a guide.
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/32553-spindle-pid-control
> but he never ran into this issue.  Same with the other postings where they 
> have problems achieving the speed.  Not running away with a negative 
> correction.

I have had exactly your problem in the past, but I can't remember how
I fixed it, as it was years ago.

But it was definitely caused by the PID going negative, but negative
output giving positive speed/

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[John Dammeyer]

Oh and I was using this series of postings as a guide.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/49-basic-configuration/32553-spindle-pid-control
but he never ran into this issue.  Same with the other postings where they have 
problems achieving the speed.  Not running away with a negative correction.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-08-21 3:57 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.
> 
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 at 23:19, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > When I click the '-' with the RPM at 501 it drops to 401. Again and so on 
> > down to 101.  The last click should take it down to 1 or 0
> RPM.  However that last click sends it to max speed of 3000 RPM.
> 
> This happens when the PID goes negative. Imagine that the PID output
> is 0, but the speed is still positive, so the PID reduces the output
> to -10. This becomes an absolute speed ot 10, which is still too high,
> so the PID goes down to -100
> 
> The best way round this is probably to pass the pid output through an
> abs block (I think that you do that) but then control the spindle
> direction using the abs.0.is-positive / is-negative outputs rather
> than the spindle direction pins.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[John Dammeyer]

> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 at 23:19, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > When I click the '-' with the RPM at 501 it drops to 401. Again and so on 
> > down to 101.  The last click should take it down to 1 or 0
> RPM.  However that last click sends it to max speed of 3000 RPM.
> 
> This happens when the PID goes negative. Imagine that the PID output
> is 0, but the speed is still positive, so the PID reduces the output
> to -10. This becomes an absolute speed ot 10, which is still too high,
> so the PID goes down to -100

That's what I though was happening.   Isn't it possible to also just use the 
equivalent of a floor function.  Ie. Don't really want the absolute value but 
instead not allow it to go negative?

If the speed is too high I can see the error term multiplied by the P being a 
negative value to be added to the commanded velocity.  So velocity is reduced. 
But should the spindle motor even be allowed to go backwards during the control 
loop?  That could damage cutters.  

If the error term * P is negative added to the current velocity < 0 then then 
0.  Not positive with a direction change.

John


> 
> The best way round this is probably to pass the pid output through an
> abs block (I think that you do that) but then control the spindle
> direction using the abs.0.is-positive / is-negative outputs rather
> than the spindle direction pins.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 8 Jul 2021 at 23:19, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> When I click the '-' with the RPM at 501 it drops to 401. Again and so on 
> down to 101.  The last click should take it down to 1 or 0 RPM.  However that 
> last click sends it to max speed of 3000 RPM.

This happens when the PID goes negative. Imagine that the PID output
is 0, but the speed is still positive, so the PID reduces the output
to -10. This becomes an absolute speed ot 10, which is still too high,
so the PID goes down to -100

The best way round this is probably to pass the pid output through an
abs block (I think that you do that) but then control the spindle
direction using the abs.0.is-positive / is-negative outputs rather
than the spindle direction pins.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] Runaway PID spindle.

[John Dammeyer]

I'm at a loss to understand what is going wrong and therefore other than 
randomly trying different parameter values I'm not really moving forward.
 
What's happening is this on the 2.7.14 LinuxCNC system:
I've set the PID with P=1.8 and I=1.0 using the PWM module on the 7i92H which 
is creating a 0-10V signal to rotate the spindle.  Feedback is into the mesa 
encoder module with 60 slots per rev quadrature is 240 edges.
 
If I enable the spindle button for clockwise and then click the '+' button the 
spindle starts at 101 RPM.  As I recall when not using feedback the clicks 
would start at 1RPM so each click of the plus increments by 100RPM (the PID 
pulls it in pretty closely although the display oscillates around 101.9 to 99.1 
RPM but mostly 100.xxx RPM.
 
When I click the '-' with the RPM at 501 it drops to 401. Again and so on down 
to 101.  The last click should take it down to 1 or 0 RPM.  However that last 
click sends it to max speed of 3000 RPM.
 
After that the clicks +/- don't do anything.  Only the STOP buttons stops the 
spindle.  It's like the PID has overflowed and after that can't fix itself.  
 
Also another clue.  If I have it turning at say 2000 RPM and I click on stop 
and then on the clockwise button again before it's stopped it also takes off to 
3000.  I think it's like it sees too large an error and the negative value is 
turned into the absolute value rather than 0 to tell it to stop turning because 
the error is so large.
 
Below is the spindle hal file information.
Thanks
John
 
#***
#  SPINDLE S
#***
#===
# SPINDLE ENCODER
# Hardware assumptions:
#An encoder is connected to the spindle and puts out 60 pulses per 
revolution on phase A
#The encoder A phase is connected to the DB25 #2 Pin 11
#The encoder A phase is connected to the DB25 #2 Pin 12
#The encoder index pulse is connected to DB25 #2 Pin 13
 
# ---Encoder feedback signals/setup---
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.counter-mode 0
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.filter 1
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.index-invert 1
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.index-mask 0
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.index-mask-invert 0
setphm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.scale  [SPINDLE_9]ENCODER_SCALE
 
 
# couple the encoder output to the motion control system so it knows what the 
spindle is doing.
net spindle-revs <=   hm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.position
net spindle-vel-fb-rps   <=   hm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.velocity
net spindle-index-enable <=>  hm2_7i92.0.encoder.01.index-enable
 
# ---setup spindle control signals---
net spindle-index-enable  <=>  motion.spindle-index-enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-rps-abs
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm<=  motion.spindle-speed-out
#net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-abs
net spindle-enable <=  motion.spindle-on
net spindle-cw <=  motion.spindle-forward
net spindle-ccw<=  motion.spindle-reverse
net spindle-brake  <=  motion.spindle-brake
net spindle-revs   =>  motion.spindle-revs
 
# ---Setup spindle at speed signals---
#  Use ACTUAL spindle velocity from spindle encoder
#  spindle-velocity bounces around so we filter it with lowpass
#  spindle-velocity is signed so we use absolute component to remove sign
#  ACTUAL velocity is in RPS not RPM so we scale it.
 
# Filter uneven encoder signals with low pass filer.
setp scale.spindle.gain 60
setp lowpass.spindle.gain 0.005
 
net spindle-vel-fb-rps => lowpass.spindle.in
net spindle-vel-fb-rps-filtered <= lowpass.spindle.out
 
# Pass filtered rps to spindle
net spindle-vel-fb-rps-filtered =>  motion.spindle-speed-in
 
# create absolute value so RPS is unsigned
net spindle-vel-fb-rps-filtered => abs.spindle.in
net spindle-vel-fb-rps-abs  <= abs.spindle.out
 
# Convert RPS to RPM
net spindle-vel-fb-rps-abs => scale.spindle.in
net spindle-vel-fb-rpm-abs  <= scale.spindle.out
 
 
#=
# SPINDLE RAMP control  -- Open loop with no encoder feedback.
# set the parameter for max rate-of-change
# (max spindle accel/decel in units per second)
setp spindle-ramp.maxv 10
 
# hijack the spindle-speed-out and send it to spindle-ramp.in
net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out-rps => spindle-ramp.in
 
# Grab the output of the ramp component.  This is what changes slowly
net spindle-ramped <= spindle-ramp.out
 
#=
# SPINDLE PID control
setp   pid.s.Pgain [SPINDLE_9]P
setp   pid.s.Igain [SPINDLE_9]I
setp   pid.s.Dgain [SPINDLE_9]D
setp   pid.s.bias  [SPINDLE_9]BIAS
setp   pid.s.FF0   [SPINDLE_9]FF0
setp   pid.s.FF1   [SPINDLE_9]FF1
setp   pid.s.FF2   [SPINDLE_9]FF2
setp   pid.s.deadband  [SPINDLE_9]DEADBAND
setp   pid.s.maxoutput [SPINDLE_9]MAX_OUTPUT
setp   pid.s.error-previous-target true
#setp   

Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping

[Gerrit Visser]

I'm in St Catharines, ON.

You can see my efforts on YT at
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVGnYkMO0yDPVG8buGy_u3w although no thread
milling there yet.

Gerrit

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: July 7, 2021 10:22 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping

Where are you located?




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Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping

[John Dammeyer]

Thanks Gene.
At the time I didn't know what I was getting.  I'll take a closer look now that 
a I know a little bit more of what I don't know.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Gene Heskett [mailto:ghesk...@shentel.net]
> Sent: July-08-21 12:28 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping
> 
> On Wednesday 07 July 2021 20:45:21 John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Thanks
> > So how did you work out how far it overshoots?
> > John
> >
> > > From: jrmitchellj [mailto:jrmitche...@gmail.com]
> > >
> > > Spiral flute taps for blind holes.
> > > Spiral point taps for through holes.
> > > For aluminum, I use uncoated, or bright HSS taps.
> > >
> > > I have been doing alot of m2 & 4-40 holes with rigid mounted taps,
> > > none broken!  All blind holes.
> > > The difficult part is figuring out how far the spindle overshoots
> > > (rotation) for reversal.  On my milling machine, I have it down to
> > > half of a rotation overshoot, using the braling on my Yaskawa VFD.
> > >
> That, John, is all in the rpi/sheldon config tarball I sent you by pm a
> few days back, displayed in the axis gui, and also displays distance
> traveled in addition to the turns IF the gcode takes advantage of it.
> Otherwise the 2nd display will show a 0.000. Overshoot at 100 rpm in
> high gear, not backgear, and first gear in the E400 belt position is
> typically .25 turns with a 30+lb chuck mounted, but gets downright
> horrible at 500 revs. Don't try that UNLESS you have equipt the backing
> plate hubs with clamps to prevent unscrewing the chuck.
> > >
> > > --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> > > jrmitche...@gmail.com
> >
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> 
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Power Tapping

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 07 July 2021 20:45:21 John Dammeyer wrote:

> Thanks
> So how did you work out how far it overshoots?
> John
>
> > From: jrmitchellj [mailto:jrmitche...@gmail.com]
> >
> > Spiral flute taps for blind holes.
> > Spiral point taps for through holes.
> > For aluminum, I use uncoated, or bright HSS taps.
> >
> > I have been doing alot of m2 & 4-40 holes with rigid mounted taps,
> > none broken!  All blind holes.
> > The difficult part is figuring out how far the spindle overshoots
> > (rotation) for reversal.  On my milling machine, I have it down to
> > half of a rotation overshoot, using the braling on my Yaskawa VFD.
> >
That, John, is all in the rpi/sheldon config tarball I sent you by pm a 
few days back, displayed in the axis gui, and also displays distance 
traveled in addition to the turns IF the gcode takes advantage of it. 
Otherwise the 2nd display will show a 0.000. Overshoot at 100 rpm in 
high gear, not backgear, and first gear in the E400 belt position is 
typically .25 turns with a 30+lb chuck mounted, but gets downright 
horrible at 500 revs. Don't try that UNLESS you have equipt the backing 
plate hubs with clamps to prevent unscrewing the chuck.
> >
> > --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> > jrmitche...@gmail.com
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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