Re: [Emc-users] DC motor position control (without encoder).

[Jan de Kruyf]

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/fabrication-cnc-laser-waterjet-plasma-welding-and-fab/ebay-torch-height-control-anyone-use-256120/

I followed some of the links and there is more to it than meets the eye.

j.


On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 8:07 PM, Andrew Back 
wrote:

> I wonder if someone could offer some advice on hal configuration for a
> DC motor which is wired via a H-bridge and used to position a plasma
> torch.
>
> The motor was originally driven by a torch height control unit which
> had an initial height setting, but there is no encoder or any sort of
> feedback from the motor/lifter assembly. So, this must have been done
> by finding the workpiece and then turning the motor on for N
> milliseconds to retract the torch to piece height.
>
> My question is, what hal components can I use to achieve the same? I'm
> guessing pwmgen would be used to drive the motor via the H-bridge, but
> how to connect this up so that you can jog Z position in Axis and set
> via G code.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew Back
> http://carrierdetect.com
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] It looks like my encoder noise reducing filter is too laggy

[Jan de Kruyf]

Gene your filter theory might well be right. Because you add a measurable
delay in the loop.

The other thing I found is that the load inertia of a spindle is often
badly matched to the motor inertia. This causes a real head ache setting up
the pid.

Feed forward of the signal might help  in both cases, since then the
feedback amplification needed is much less.

Cant help you with all the variables you refer to.

cheers,

j.


On Tue, Sep 1, 2015 at 9:12 PM, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Thinking that a direct motor reverse is a bit brutal on both the motor,
> and probably explores the current limit facility built in the Pico pwm
> servo amp, I tried adding a limit3 between the signal from
> motion.spindle-speed and the input to pid.s.command, which was formerly
> a direct net in the .hal file.
>
> Without it, a spindle reversal from 1000 rpms is accomplished in just a
> fraction of a second.
>
> But while it did slow down the turn around of the spindle, I am getting a
> huge overspeed in the new direction until it settles back to the
> commanded rpms.  Not at all usable IMO when the spindle may be turning
> 350 revs driving a 4-40 tap in a G33.1 cycle, and the reversal runs the
> spindle up to 2850 revs.  The head keeps up, but still it looks
> dangerous to me.  It literally goes wide open and jerks the tap out of
> the hole, in perfect synch, beautiful threads.  A larger tap would be
> self cleaning by spinning itself clean.  Now theres a grin causing
> thought. :)
>
> One of the things I did in hacking up this filter, basically a 4 stage
> shift register with all 4 stages feeding a triplet of sum2's, with a
> weighting scale factor of .2500 so basically the final sum2's output is
> the updated average of the last 4 encoder transitions, unforch this
> results in single value being clocked thru the sample_holds by the
> servo-threads repetition cycle when the spindle is turning slow enough
> that we get the same reading several times in between transitions.
>
> Thats pretty slow as the encoder disk has 268 edges per revolution.  So
> at low speeds, the filter degenerates into whatever the last edge
> transition set into the 5i25's registers by clocking that value all the
> way thru the shift registers the S_H's are in about 5 milliseconds.  So
> I made a hold signal out of a comparison between the encoder out and the
> S_H's first stage out. But, and this is what I think is actually biting
> me, the encoder and the S_H's have to have a conv_float_to_s32 and vice
> versa wrapped around them.
>
> So I may as well just go ahead and either junk the whole idea, or figure
> out something that does not need all the float to s32 and vice versa.
>
> Sample_hold is s32 except bit "hold", and the man page doesn't even say
> what state is hold & what state is fall-thru.
>
> comp is float, incompatible with the S_H
>
> Sum2 is float, incompatible with the S_H
>
> So the processing chain is too long and likely in the wrong addf
> sequence.  But it would be a huge help if we had a float version of the
> sample_hold.
>
> Any chance of that ever happening?
>
> I'll test the theory that the filter delay is the culprit by bypassing
> the filter.
>
> Another possibility is that at the instant of polarity reversal going
> into the .command port of pid.s, a reset signal could be slammed into
> the pid.s to cancel any effects of the spindles overshoots in the wrong
> direction, the lack of which is causing a windup in the pid. Halscope
> should be able to show me that I would think.  But how to generate that,
> I haven't a clue, but that almost HAS to be the cause of the
> windup/catchup.
>
> A 2nd question then, pid.s.error-previous-target, bit in, should be what
> for a velocity loop such as a spindle?  Currently set true, by pncconf &
> I haven't touched it.
>
> Anybody else got a better idea?
>
> Thanks all.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Looking for error in doing dbl-sided pcb's.

[Jan de Kruyf]

Gene,
I would say, after reading through your code and looking at the pictures of
your setup, that perhaps your table is not as square as you like to
believe; and at the same time the pc board you were trying to drill is not
as square as you believe.
Then when you flip it, it will not be in the exact same position on the
table, because the skewness that fitted perfectly into the jig first time
around, causes a gap at the top or at the bottom (as you see it, along the
Y axis) for the bottom-up run. Or the other way round.

With a perfectly right-angled pc-board that would not happen, but who makes
those?

Try running a very thin feeler gage along the left edge with the board in
both positions and see if it does not go in at the top or at the bottom.

To prove the squareness of yr table, mill a square or rectangular plate
(perhaps screw it down in the middle with 2 screws into the T-slot) and
machine a perfectly round hole in it somewhere (reamer?) perfectly in the
middle would be nice, but again that is difficult to archieve. Then put it
in your jig, and clock on the hole with your fancy rotating probe and your
program.
Then flip the plate and clock again. I bet you will find the same
registration error as you find now.

And here is a last thought:
After you have worked out the unsquareness of your machine you can write a
kinematics routine to adjust for it, and then polish up the pcb jig so this
does not bother you ever again.

Cheers,

j.





On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 Hi all;

 I have a very small error, perhaps .010 in the top vs bottom hole 
 pattern placements.

 Unless someone can convince me that pcb2gcode has a built in error in its Y
 calc's for the bottom of the board, the error is mine, darnit.

 Background:  The eagle .brd file I was sent is arranged such that the board
 is bigger in Y then in X.

 However, in building a pallet to hold the board I much prefer to have the
 board pattern laying long ways with the X axis.

 So, I wrote, and it has worked fairly well, for several projects based on
 the first pallet I made for the lathes spindle encoder a holefinder routine
 to establish a known location on the pallet, just off the upper left corner
 of the board, a short piece of 1/8 brass tubing, superglued in place and
 connected the the LCNC probe input pin.  Then I made, from a sewing needle
 threader, a probe I can put in a 1/8 collet, with the wire shaped like a
 sharp speer.

 I have a .1 uf cap on the probe circuit which captures and holds any
 momentary contact the probe wire makes to the inside of the mouth of the
 tubing, holding it long enough for LCNC to grab it.  The facilitate LCNC
 seeing the probe wire as a perfect cone, the spindle is running about 1800
 rpm while this probing is going on.

 Basically it lowers the spinning wire into the hole until first contact is
 detected, then raises the spindle 20 thou for clearance, then moves first
 the x, capturing #5061 into 2 vars as it moves to detect the tubing, first
 left, then right.  It adds those two, and divides by 2, then runs x to the
 mathematical center.  Then it does the same with the Y axis, captureing
 #5062 into fronty and backy vars, does the same /2 and runs the mills Y to
 that center.  Once its done that, it applies the detected offsets to the
 G55 and G56 maps, which are then used by the rest of the code depending on
 whether its for the top (G55) or bottom (G56) of the board.  The bottom
 however has an offset added such that running the bot.drill file should
 result in holes drilled halfway through the board that meet in the middle.

 But, both G55 and G56 are also rotated with an R270 at the end of the G10
 L2 P# statement in this code.

 What I am getting when I drill 5 thou into the board running the two drill
 files from pcb2gcode shows a dead on registration has been achieved with
 the offset as applied to only the G56 map.

 The board is being flipped along the x axis, so the same end of the board
 is always wedged via the hold-down screws against the left side of the
 milled pocket, so I can't see that as a source of error here.

 But, I have an offset of perhaps .012 in the drilled Y positions after the
 270 rotation rotation to convert it to my mills real X axis.

 Could this be an artifact of a small error in the fudgex and fudgey vars at
 the top of the file that you can see on my web page in the
 Genes-os9-stf/LCNC link?  These are the actual locations of this brass
 tube, with reference to the assumption that as I see it on the mills table,
 of the exact 0.0, 0.0 upper left corner of the pallet's board pocket.
 Supposedly.  On the previous pallet, I established a 0,0 location then
 moved .2 left and .1 below and drilled the hole for the brass contact pipe,
 this time I got ahead of myself and milled the pocket, then installed the
 pipe, unforch after the 0,0 had been lost due to re-homing the machine the
 next day.

 Because there is nothing to reference 

Re: [Emc-users] Looking for error in doing dbl-sided pcb's.

[Jan de Kruyf]

tangent of 1 degree is 0.0174550649282.

So if there was a 1 degree error on your milling machine and a 1 degree
error on the cutting of the pcb, the offset from flipping would be
0.0349101298564 inch per inch boardwidth.

Just as an example. I am not saying this is the case at all, but at the
same time I would be very suspicious.

I have made a similar error before in my life. I was doing acceptance tests
on a big machining centre and
the machine gave a few hundreds of a mm error compared to the calibrated
bar on the table used for checking.

That is, until it dawned on me that it was summer and the workshop
temperature was in the 90's and the scale was glass (Heidenhain) and the
rod was steel. And a few quick sums on a piece of scrap paper relieved my
anguish.

Good luck

j.





On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Troy Jacobson t...@thismuch.net wrote:

 Gene,
 I've been starting to think about how I want to mill double sided pcbs, and
 have been trying to figure out how to avoid problems like this.

 Is the size of your PCB blank causing an offset when it is rotated?  It
 seems to me that the point around which the coordinates are rotated need to
 be in the exact center of the PCB, or at centered between the two relevant
 edges depending on the type of rotation/flip being done.  If you were to
 drill a hole at that place, it should be half the board size away from the
 edges of the pocket.

 When calculating the coordinates for a rotate or flip, are you using the
 same point for all files associated with the board?



 On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 10:53 AM, Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Gene,
  I would say, after reading through your code and looking at the pictures
 of
  your setup, that perhaps your table is not as square as you like to
  believe; and at the same time the pc board you were trying to drill is
 not
  as square as you believe.
  Then when you flip it, it will not be in the exact same position on the
  table, because the skewness that fitted perfectly into the jig first time
  around, causes a gap at the top or at the bottom (as you see it, along
 the
  Y axis) for the bottom-up run. Or the other way round.
 
  With a perfectly right-angled pc-board that would not happen, but who
 makes
  those?
 
  Try running a very thin feeler gage along the left edge with the board in
  both positions and see if it does not go in at the top or at the bottom.
 
  To prove the squareness of yr table, mill a square or rectangular plate
  (perhaps screw it down in the middle with 2 screws into the T-slot) and
  machine a perfectly round hole in it somewhere (reamer?) perfectly in the
  middle would be nice, but again that is difficult to archieve. Then put
 it
  in your jig, and clock on the hole with your fancy rotating probe and
 your
  program.
  Then flip the plate and clock again. I bet you will find the same
  registration error as you find now.
 
  And here is a last thought:
  After you have worked out the unsquareness of your machine you can write
 a
  kinematics routine to adjust for it, and then polish up the pcb jig so
 this
  does not bother you ever again.
 
  Cheers,
 
  j.
 
 
 
 
 
  On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
 
   Hi all;
  
   I have a very small error, perhaps .010 in the top vs bottom hole 
   pattern placements.
  
   Unless someone can convince me that pcb2gcode has a built in error in
  its Y
   calc's for the bottom of the board, the error is mine, darnit.
  
   Background:  The eagle .brd file I was sent is arranged such that the
  board
   is bigger in Y then in X.
  
   However, in building a pallet to hold the board I much prefer to have
 the
   board pattern laying long ways with the X axis.
  
   So, I wrote, and it has worked fairly well, for several projects based
 on
   the first pallet I made for the lathes spindle encoder a holefinder
  routine
   to establish a known location on the pallet, just off the upper left
  corner
   of the board, a short piece of 1/8 brass tubing, superglued in place
 and
   connected the the LCNC probe input pin.  Then I made, from a sewing
  needle
   threader, a probe I can put in a 1/8 collet, with the wire shaped
 like a
   sharp speer.
  
   I have a .1 uf cap on the probe circuit which captures and holds any
   momentary contact the probe wire makes to the inside of the mouth of
 the
   tubing, holding it long enough for LCNC to grab it.  The facilitate
 LCNC
   seeing the probe wire as a perfect cone, the spindle is running about
  1800
   rpm while this probing is going on.
  
   Basically it lowers the spinning wire into the hole until first contact
  is
   detected, then raises the spindle 20 thou for clearance, then moves
 first
   the x, capturing #5061 into 2 vars as it moves to detect the tubing,
  first
   left, then right.  It adds those two, and divides by 2, then runs x to
  the
   mathematical center.  Then it does the same with the Y axis, captureing
   #5062

Re: [Emc-users] fpga epp data transfer - strange behaviour

[Jan de Kruyf]

You get illegal noise states from your hardware, causing illegal
transitions in your logic.

For a solution look at page 13 of this document:

http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-0096EN

j.


On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 9:23 AM, Klemen Dovrtel klemen_dovr...@yahoo.comwrote:

 Hello everybody,

 I am using fpga to monitor the incremental encoder and transfer the axis
 absolute position to pc using parallel port and epp communication. When I
 run the Axis GUI I am getting some strange following errors. I found out
 that occasionally i get some bad axis position data transfer from the fpga.
 But what is very strange that this happens only when the axis moves in
 negative direction and never when it moves positive direction or stays
 still (please see the image attached)). So i thought there must be some bug
 in pfga encoder, not in epp communication, but i have no idea what could
 possibly be wrong - the code is very simple (i pasted it below).

 I increase the servo-thread period, but the result was the same. I also
 tried to locate a certain position of axis when the data is bad, and i
 could not do this - it seems this is happening randomly.

 Does anybody have some idea where to look for the error?

 Regards,
 Klemen





 --

 library IEEE;
 use IEEE.STD_LOGIC_1164.ALL;
 --use IEEE.STD_LOGIC_ARITH.ALL;
 use IEEE.STD_LOGIC_SIGNED.ALL;

 -- Uncomment the following library declaration if using
 -- arithmetic functions with Signed or Unsigned values
 --use IEEE.NUMERIC_STD.ALL;

 -- Uncomment the following library declaration if instantiating
 -- any Xilinx primitives in this code.
 --library UNISIM;
 --use UNISIM.VComponents.all;



 entity QuadCounter is
 Port ( clk : in std_logic;--system clock
  QuadA : in std_logic;--first input from quadrature device
 (i.e. optical disk encoder)

   QuadB : in std_logic;--second input from quadrature device (i.e.
 optical disk encoder)
  CounterValue : out std_logic_vector(31 downto 0);
  ResetCounterValue : in std_logic
 );
 end QuadCounter;

 architecture Behavioral of QuadCounter is

 signal Counter : std_logic_vector(31 downto 0) := (others = '0') ;

 -- previos quad signal
 signal QuadAprevious : std_logic := '0';
 signal QuadBprevious : std_logic := '0';



  signal state : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) := ;
 -- ??initial
  state, MUST be set, or FF/Latch state_1 (without init value)
 has a constant value of 0 in block QuadDecoder. This FF/Latch
 will be trimmed during the optimization process.
 -- state deffinitons
 constant Wait0 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) := ;
 constant CountUp0 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0):= 0001;
 constant CountDown0 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) := 0010;
 constant Wait1 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) := 0101;
 constant CountUp1 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0):= 0111;
 constant CountDown1 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) := 0100;
 constant Wait2 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) :=
  1010;
 constant CountUp2 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0):= 1000;
 constant CountDown2 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) := 1011;
 constant Wait3 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) := ;
 constant CountUp3 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0):= 1110;
 constant CountDown3 : std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) := 1101;

 begin
 process(clk)
 begin
 if rising_edge(clk) then
 state = QuadAprevious  QuadBprevious  QuadA  QuadB;

 case state is
 when
  Wait0|Wait1|Wait2|Wait3 =
 -- do nothing
 when CountUp0|CountUp1|CountUp2|CountUp3 =
 Counter = Counter + 1;
 when CountDown0|CountDown1|CountDown2|CountDown3 =
 Counter = Counter - 1;
 when others =
 -- ERROR
 end case; --state


 if (ResetCounterValue = '1') then
 Counter = (others = '0');
 end if;

 CounterValue = Counter;
 QuadAprevious = QuadA;
 QuadBprevious = QuadB;
 end if;

 end process; --(clk)

 end Behavioral;

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Re: [Emc-users] fpga epp data transfer - strange behaviour

[Jan de Kruyf]

It is quite correct to latch the data, before reading out in byte chunks,
so no roll over occurs in the hi byte going from 00FF to 0100 for instance,
if there is a count pulse during reading . I forgot about that part.

j.


On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 8:57 PM, Klemen Dovrtel klemen_dovr...@yahoo.comwrote:

 I see, if i understand this correctly, i should add a two-stage
 synchronizer to latch the data from QuadA/B before sampling with counter
 logic?

 Ok, thank you for the suggestions, i will try to add some filters, as
 suggested also by Jan de Kruyf.

 Regards, Klemen





 
  From: Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com
 To: Klemen Dovrtel klemen_dovr...@yahoo.com; Enhanced Machine
 Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 7:14 PM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] fpga epp data transfer - strange behaviour

 On Sat, 2 Mar 2013, Klemen Dovrtel wrote:

  Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2013 09:38:34 -0800 (PST)
  From: Klemen Dovrtel klemen_dovr...@yahoo.com
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] fpga epp data transfer - strange behaviour
 
  I think this can not be the reason, this would not trigger glitches only
  while decreasing the encoder value. My epp data transfer is started with
  address write which triggers the sampling and latching of encoder
 position
  value and all other signals values. The following data read/write are
 then
  dealing only with latched values which can not change during the data
  transfer.
 
 
  Redards, Klemen
 
 OK thats good

 There is also a mistake in the counter logic related to sampling external
 asynchronous signals (QuadA and QuadB) in multiple places (this will cause
 occasional wrong states when an input is changing whan sampled)

 But if you have big transient errors, I would look at the EPP interface. In
 our EPP interface we required digital filters on control signals as the
 signals from the parallel port (especially with a long cable) are quite
 slow
 and dirty relative to the FPGAs clock speeds.



 
 
  
  From: Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 4:45 PM
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] fpga epp data transfer - strange behaviour
 
  On Fri, 1 Mar 2013, Klemen Dovrtel wrote:
 
  Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 23:23:48 -0800 (PST)
  From: Klemen Dovrtel klemen_dovr...@yahoo.com
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Subject: [Emc-users] fpga epp data transfer - strange behaviour
 
  Hello everybody,
 
  I am using fpga to monitor the incremental encoder and transfer the axis
  absolute position to pc using parallel port and epp communication. When
 I run
  the Axis GUI I am getting some strange following errors. I found out that
  occasionally i get some bad axis position data transfer from the fpga.
 But
  what is very strange that this happens only when the axis moves in
 negative
  direction and never when it moves positive direction or stays still
 (please
  see the image attached)). So i thought there must be some bug in pfga
 encoder,
  not in epp communication, but i have no idea what could possibly be
 wrong -
  the code is very simple (i pasted it below).
 
  I increase the servo-thread period, but the result was the same. I also
 tried
  to locate a certain position of axis when the data is bad, and i could
 not do
  this - it seems this is happening randomly.
 
  Does anybody have some idea where to look for the error?
 
  Regards,
  Klemen
 
  My first guess is that you are not sampling the 32 bit count atomically,
 That
  is, with the EPP transfers you are reading the count as 4 individual
 bytes so
  you must latch all 32 bits of the count at the beginning of the 4 byte
  transfer so that you dont have scrambled data in your 32 bit count if the
  count happens to change when reading.
 
 
 
  Peter Wallace
  Mesa Electronics
 
  (\__/)
  (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
  ()_() signature to help him gain world domination.
 
 
 
 --
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 Peter Wallace
 Mesa

Re: [Emc-users] PID Tuning Problems

[Jan de Kruyf]

Todd,
from theoretical deliberations I would say: give either the drive or the
output of the pid a fixed offset to take care of the downward force of the
head. So the whole is balanced statically before you try to tune the PID.

j.


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:32 PM, Todd Zuercher zuerc...@embarqmail.comwrote:



 I am having some trouble tuning the servo on a new setup.  It is using a
 Mesa 5i25-7i77 combo running Teknics SST-3100-U drives running in analog
 torque mode.

 Where I am having the most trouble is on the Z and W axis.  They are
 vertical, with no counter ballance  driven by a lead screw.  After a lot of
 effort  tuning I have found that the PID error is not the same as f-error.
 The PID is showing very little error but the f-error is very proportional
 to the velocity.  Why are the two errors  no t the same?  Any suggestions
 on ways to fix or  improve it?   O r a better idea of the source of the
 problem?



 here is a link to the discussion on the LinuxCNC Forum.


 http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/24800-servo-tuning-advice/26154
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/10-advanced-configuration/24800-servo-tuning-advice/26154



 --

 

 Todd Zuercher
 mailto:zuerc...@embarqmail.com

 

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Re: [Emc-users] General question about gibs

[Jan de Kruyf]

 I have never seen such a material on this side of the pond, Jan.  Where
 does one get it?


DuPont makes it if I am not mistaken. It is used to make bearing bushes for
valves and the like.
The price is not quite up to Moglice standards. But $100 is also quickly
paid for that stuff.

I forget what the etching liquid is, but it is quite aggressive and very
nasty (only for use in 3rd world :)
The supplier always makes me wait a few days for the weather to get right
for etching.

In any case I see you are of the generation of the wooden ships and the
iron men
I learned my trade on the iron ships, see.

cheers,

j.



  (with an etched
  surface, otherwise the glue does not hold) onto the running surface of a
  taper gib.

 Etched with what acid?

  Like 2mm thick or so. The stuff scrapes readily with the back
  of a stanley knife, quite quick. Blue, scrape, blue, scrape etc. until
  you are satisfied that it fits perfectly. Presumably you could do the
  same trick on the back after machining it down a bit.
 
  the glue to use is slow curing epoxy of a good quality. And use your
  machine table as a perfectly flat suface to clamp it on while curing.
  The results are always just magic. Even on expensive CNCmachines.

 Sounds almost self fitting. :)

  Jan.

 Thanks Jan.  There are usually many different ways to approach that.  I
 thought of Moglice too, but I hear that stuff is about $100 USD/ounce.  Too
 rich for my blood.

 Cheers, Gene
 --
 There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up!
 There was a boy called Eustace Clarence Scrubb, and he almost deserved
 it.
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Re: [Emc-users] General question about gibs

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hallo, Gene.
I have on a few occasions glued brass filled teflon (with an etched
surface, otherwise the glue does not hold) onto the running surface of a
taper gib. Like 2mm thick or so. The stuff scrapes readily with the back of
a stanley knife, quite quick. Blue, scrape, blue, scrape etc. until you are
satisfied that it fits perfectly. Presumably you could do the same trick on
the back after machining it down a bit.

the glue to use is slow curing epoxy of a good quality. And use your
machine table as a perfectly flat suface to clamp it on while curing.
The results are always just magic. Even on expensive CNCmachines.

Jan.


On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:
  On Thursday 23 August 2012 11:59:35 Mark Wendt did opine:
 
  On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com
 wrote:
   Hi all;
  
   I am still trying to put that ball screw in the X axis of my
   mini-lathe, and as I was cleaning things up, getting ready for the
   next step of the assembly, I find that I have not fixed a gib problem
   this POS has had since day one, and likely cannot without a new, more
   precisely fitting gib strip.
  
   The first time I ever took it apart, I noted that it was bent,
   swaybacked by about an eight of an inch just laying on the table
   relaxed.
  
   So I got out something resembling an anvil and bent it back as
   straight as I could, then polished it till its wear face was straight
   before I reassembled it, removing possibly .005 in getting the upper
   facing 45 degree angle so it marked a magic marker full length.
  
   Today as I was reassembling it and attempting to adjust the gib
   screws, I noted that the top face not only wasn't in contact with the
   bottom of the slider, the tip of it at the bottom of the carriages
   v-cut was sharper than the bottom of the carriages v-cut, so I
   purposely rounded off that edge hoping that both sides of the V would
   make contact.  Such is not the case and never will be with this
   strip, it is not only about 50 thou thinner than it should be, but
   when the angled face is in contact with the V-way, its top face is
   clearing the bottom of the cross slider at a very noticeable angle of
   at least 10 degrees.
  
   If I stick my pocket knife into the gap between the carriage top and
   the bottom of the slider, I can lift the right edge of the crossfeed
   a good 20 thou, which explains a lot of why I can't begin to use all
   the spindle motor for a cut and the bit, when the cross slide tips up
   like that, is driven into the workpiece hard enough to stall the
   spindle  blow the fuse or trip my electronic fuse in .hal instantly.
I can actually see the gib strip being picked up by the adjustment
   screws, allowing a tip up of at good 20-30 thou by the time the top
   of it is in contact with the bottom of the slider.  I can also see
   straight through the clearance gap, both top and bottom. EG this sows
   ear is decomposing.
  
   LMS doesn't show a replacement strip for this lathe, so it appears I
   will need to make a new one.  So, 2 questions:
  
   1: What should I make it out of?
  
   2: will the usual 45 degree dovetail bit suffice to establish the
   correct angles to contain this lifting of the right edge of the cross
   feed slider?
  
   3: Or, perchance is this a stock item at some other machinery peddler
   besides LMS?
  
   Thanks.
  
   Cheers, Gene
 
  Gene,
 
  I'm trying to dig out where I stuffed it, but a buddy of mine by the
  name of Rick Kruger came up with a relatively simple, yet elegant
  solution to the shiddy gibs that come on the mini lathe.  I
  incorporated it on my mini lathe, and they're as smooth as a baby's
  behind.  He designed tapered gibs for the mini lathe.  If I can't find
  the web page for it, I'll pimp him this morning and see where he's got
  the designs stuck at.
 
  Mark
 
  I saw those in one of my google searches Mark, neat, but that isn't the
 gib
  in hand, this one is under the cross feed slider, on its right side.
  Rides
  the dovetail on top of the carriage IOW.
 
  Cheers, Gene

 Ach ja, I just noticed you said X axis at the top.

 Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] QCad - was Re: Curiosity, is gonna run this, cat plumb out of lives yet.

[Jan de Kruyf]

on Debian I guess it would be
libsigc++-2.0-devbut then I did not build it yet [?]

cheers,

j.

On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Wednesday 22 August 2012 09:18:37 Dennis J. Murray did opine:

  Gene:
 
  Have you looked at gCNCCAM?  I normally use qCAD to generate my part,
  then gCNCCAM to turn it into gcode.  gCNCCAM will automatically generate
  multiple passes to handle deeper cuts than one Z-axis pass allows!  You
  just specify Z-axis depth of cut and target (final) depth and gCNCCAM
  generates the passes necessary to accomplish it.
 
  Neither program is super sophisticated, but both work fine for my needs
  - AND they both run under Linux (10.04 here).
 
  May not suit you, but I like them!
 
  Let us know what you settle on and why (I might even consider
  changing!). Dennis

 Sounds useful, so I downloaded the src tarball, tried to build it.
 configure bailed out missing gnome pieces.  Fixed that, then the make
 bailed out:

 FrameTool_glade.cc:39:34: error: sigc++/compatibility.h: No such file or
 directory
 FrameTool_glade.cc: In constructor
 ‘FrameTool_glade::FrameTool_glade(GlademmData*)’:
 FrameTool_glade.cc:184: error: ‘SigC’ has not been declared
 FrameTool_glade.cc:185: error: ‘SigC’ has not been declared
 FrameTool_glade.cc:186: error: ‘SigC’ has not been declared
 make[2]: *** [FrameTool_glade.o] Error 1
 make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/gene/gcnccam/src'
 make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1

 No obvious clues as to what I need to install in a synaptic search for
 glade.  Ideas?  Ways to coax synaptic to spit out the answer?

 Thanks. Dennis.

 Cheers, Gene
 --
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  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up!
 San Francisco isn't what it used to be, and it never was.
 -- Herb Caen


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Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?

[Jan de Kruyf]

Basic beginners answer (on purely theoretical grounds)

s235j2g3 or -g4  equals St37-3n  (all according to DIN EN 10025 off course)

This is a bit better than cold rolled and it is fully beruhigt, I think
they mean stress relieved.
it is classed as useable for machineparts, bolts, forged parts, welded
constructions, and it is easy to work with.


j.


On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 8:52 PM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 Hi everybody;

 Basic beginners question:

 When I needed to make a new locking pin last week, I considered the
 relatively poor finish I was able to achieve using TSC's cold rolled stock,
 and walked 100 feet on by and picked up a grade 8 bolt big enough that I
 could find that pin inside it if I carved it right.

 Imagine my surprise when that grade 8 bolt carved like butter, both with
 carbide inserts and with HSS tool steel, leaving a mirror-like finish.  For
 a change I was proud of something I made.

 If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps
 even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal
 peddlers?

 Thanks all.

 Cheers, Gene
 --
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  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene
 Give your very best today.  Heaven knows it's little enough.


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Re: [Emc-users] rtos?

[Jan de Kruyf]

to first order, i'd say there are too many acronyms to make the link
useful.
Thats part of the quality :)

If I read this stuff right it grew out of a micro controller rtos and it is
not quite mature yet. (Although *NuttX RTOS* is)
It might perhaps become useful once a major migration to a headless system
on a micro controller takes off.

j.



On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 11:31 AM, charles green xxzzb...@yahoo.com wrote:

 RGMP stands for RTOS and GPOS on Multi-Processor.  ..ok, and GPOS is
 ..generic platform operating system?  to first order, i'd say there are too
 many acronyms to make the link useful.

 WBEC? KWIM?


 --- On Mon, 5/28/12, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

  From: gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com
  Subject: [Emc-users] rtos?
  To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Date: Monday, May 28, 2012, 1:44 AM
  Greetings everybody;
 
  Is this link of any use to us?
 
  http://rgmp.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
 
  Cheers, Gene
  --
  There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
   soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
  -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
  My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene
  Kids always brighten up a house; mostly by leaving the
  lights on.
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference

[Jan de Kruyf]

That is a bit of a difficult configuration. I rather like to us
encoders with a RS485 balanced pair output i.e. A, notA, B, notB, etc.
The receivers reject noise much better in htat configuration.

You might try to find a powder iron or ceramic ring-core and loop all
encoder wires through a few times close to the computer. Or perhaps
find some rf suppressor beads as used on VGA monitor signal cables.
The idea being that what goes in must come out. and the influence of
stray fields on the encoder cable is rejected by the core.

Other than that: run the encoder cable seperate from the motor power
cable. Earth all screening on one side only. Normally the
computerside, at the enterance into the steel computer cabinet.

And yes take the 2 motor power wires, clamp them into the drilling
machine chuck and twist them. It is very important.

In desperation over and above all this you might try to implement
small LC filters on each signal wire.
I dont have any values off my head. If needed I can look them up.


Cheers,

j.



On 5/26/12, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:

 On May 26, 2012, at 4:48 AM, Jan de Kruyf wrote:

 how many wires is your encoder Jeshua?

 Hi Jan,

 Just an A and B (separately shielded) and the encoder +5v and ground
 (separately shielded).


 Best,

 Jeshua Lacock
 Founder/Engineer
 3DTOPO Incorporated
 http://3DTOPO.com
 Phone: 208.462.4171


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference

[Jan de Kruyf]

Zip ties! How very dare you! That's harness lacing, that is.

Oh dear, did you catch that affliction in your seafaring days, did you,
Andy?

j.



On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 8:07 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 27 May 2012 18:48, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote:

  
 https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NivmHU8OuXIcP2EQHUPruNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

  Your cabinet looks a lot better than mine, but... I have a thing about
  Zip-ties.

 Zip ties! How very dare you! That's harness lacing, that is.

 --
 atp
 If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
 http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference

[Jan de Kruyf]

Here is an article about effective EMI screening for those interested in
the subject.

http://www.ce-mag.com/99ARG/Bjorklof137.html


j.



On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 10:09 PM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Sunday, May 27, 2012 04:06:25 PM andy pugh did opine:

  On 27 May 2012 18:48, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NivmHU8OuXIcP2EQHUPruNMTjNZET
YmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
  
   Your cabinet looks a lot better than mine, but... I have a thing about
   Zip-ties.
 
  Zip ties! How very dare you! That's harness lacing, that is.

 I am not in favor of zip's as they force wiring into close, noise
 transmitting proximity in a much more uneven manner than even cable ducting
 does.

 Cheers, Gene
 --
 There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene
 The amount of weight an evangelist carries with the almighty is measured
 in billigrahams.


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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference

[Jan de Kruyf]

how many wires is your encoder Jeshua?

j.


On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:


 Greetings,

 I am now setting up my new X axis servo with an AMT 102 encoder.

 The motor is normally dithering between 0.0003 and 0.0006 inches.

 But every now and then - for no obvious reason it jumps up to 0.02+ inches
 and doesn't attempt to return to the correct location. It just jumps
 randomly.

 I think it must be interference.

 The cable is double shielded and the shields are grounded to the encoder
 ground the length of the cable outside my enclosure. I am suspecting the
 interference is inside the enclosure where there are unshielded encoder and
 power wires.

 I was thinking of carefully wrapping aluminum foil around the power wires
 and grounding them, then shrink-wrapping or covering the aluminum with
 electrical tape.

 Would I want to ground the power wire shield to the power supply ground or
 the encoder ground? Do you think this might help?

 Anyone have any other suggestions?

 I wish I could see magnetic fields! Short of that, at times like this I
 wish I had a magnet implant like this guy that can feel magnetic fields:

 http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mods/news/2006/06/71087?currentPage=all


 Thanks,

 Jeshua Lacock
 Founder/Engineer
 3DTOPO Incorporated
 http://3DTOPO.com
 Phone: 208.462.4171



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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference

[Jan de Kruyf]

did you twist the powerwires of the motor together to minimize stray
magnetic fields from the cable?

j.


On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.comwrote:

 how many wires is your encoder Jeshua?

 j.



 On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:


 Greetings,

 I am now setting up my new X axis servo with an AMT 102 encoder.

 The motor is normally dithering between 0.0003 and 0.0006 inches.

 But every now and then - for no obvious reason it jumps up to 0.02+
 inches and doesn't attempt to return to the correct location. It just jumps
 randomly.

 I think it must be interference.

 The cable is double shielded and the shields are grounded to the encoder
 ground the length of the cable outside my enclosure. I am suspecting the
 interference is inside the enclosure where there are unshielded encoder and
 power wires.

 I was thinking of carefully wrapping aluminum foil around the power wires
 and grounding them, then shrink-wrapping or covering the aluminum with
 electrical tape.

 Would I want to ground the power wire shield to the power supply ground
 or the encoder ground? Do you think this might help?

 Anyone have any other suggestions?

 I wish I could see magnetic fields! Short of that, at times like this I
 wish I had a magnet implant like this guy that can feel magnetic fields:

 http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mods/news/2006/06/71087?currentPage=all


 Thanks,

 Jeshua Lacock
 Founder/Engineer
 3DTOPO Incorporated
 http://3DTOPO.com
 Phone: 208.462.4171



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Re: [Emc-users] Custom Encoders

[Jan de Kruyf]

So sorry, I was indeed thinking of transmissive.

j.



On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 5:18 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 25 May 2012 15:37, Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com wrote:

   I have made one before with just a piece of photo negative film.

 Unfortunately these sensors need a shiny/non-shiny contrast.

 I was anticipating using laserprint, but both white and black paper
 are equally invisible to the sensor.
 These sensors need  60% and  10% specular reflectivity.
 I think that photo negative would be equally shiny whether black or
 white (these are reflective sensors, not transmissive)

 --
 atp
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Redundancy?

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hallo,
Sorryto hear of this disaster.

The old Siemens way was to lock out the drive if the output of the speed
opamp (so including I ) was at the limit for longer than 100msecs.
The modern way on difgital servo drives is trip on loss of communication
lasting longer than 2 servo cycles. And a host of trip conditions of
course thart the servo knows to detect.

Also there exists a very simple error detection circuit for 8 wire
encoders, but the details have escaped me. I would have to look in the
archives to find it again.

Hardware wise the easiest way is to provide impact absorbers at the end of
the travel. 1 or 2 pieces of 30mm thinwalled pipe work wonders.
But be sure to test out the pipe you plan to use. It should collapse to
+-30% of its length on impact.

Cheers,

j.


On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:

 On Wed, 23 May 2012, Jon Elson wrote:

  Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:13:34 -0500
  From: Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Redundancy?
 
  andy pugh wrote:
  On 23 May 2012 07:08, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:
 
 
  I am guessing there is not an easy way to detect this condition,
 
 
  It should be possible to check if your PID is saturated for more than
  a second or so.
 
  But, this still doesn't detect a servo runaway when the Gecko drive is
  started up.
  LinuxCNC is not sending any command to the drive at this point.  So,
 before
  F2 is pressed, PID output is clamped at zero.
  Note that I am not sure what amp-fault-in actually does, but it was
  conveniently available and sounds about right.
 
  It is a signal provided by some servo amplifiers to indicate they are in
  fault status.
 
  Jon

 Which is a good illustration of the limitations of step/dir servos since
 LinuxCNC can't see whats happening in the drive, which rules out a lot of
 hardware fault mitigation strategies.


 Peter Wallace
 Mesa Electronics



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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Help with Harmonic wave reducer drives needed

[Jan de Kruyf]

are you on about this thing Viesturs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_drive

j.


On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hello, gentlemen!

 I would like to ask, if someone can point me to some source of
 information, how to design and calculate wave reducers.

 I am doing this for my school project. I have a book, which has all
 the formulas etc, but I am stuck with three errors already and I do
 not have any other source of this information to verify, if the error
 is in my brain or in the book.

 Few examples:
 1) there is formula for involute function of pressure angle between
 gear hob and the gear (that is needed to calculate correction for
 flexible gear). One of the elements in that formula is correction
 ratio x_2;
 The formula for calculating x_2 is given as well. And guess what, one
 of elements in that formula is the involute function of pressure angle
 between gear hob and the gear.
 So there is magic circle, 2 unknown values depending each on other.
 But I managed to solve that.
 2) there is some mysterious ratio in 2 formulas for wave generator
 profle parameters and correction ratio for internal gear without any
 explanation, what is it and how it is calculated.
 3) the formula for efficiency ratio is doomed already before starting
 to calculate it: n=1/(1+a+2,2*10^5*u)
 a - not explained, what is that, but it is given that for flexible
 bearing a=0,14
 u - reduction ratio, u = 89
 It does not really matters, because 2,2*10^5 means that the efficiency
 is virtually non-existent.
 4) Wave generator is elipse, expected ovality (d1 - d2)/2 should be
 around value of modulus of teeth, which in my case is 0,7, but I am
 getting 0,17, which just means that the gears will remain engaged all
 around their perimeters, which is failure.

 I have been trying to find something in the international databases we
 have available through school's library IT tools, but no luck.
 Googling just gives me total rubbish. Obviously I fail at choosing
 correct keywords.

 Can You point me to some place, where I could find, how to design and
 calculate wave reducer? All the flexible gears, flexible bearings etc.

 Thanks!

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Help with Harmonic wave reducer drives needed

[Jan de Kruyf]

when I search for this:

harmonic drive calculation

some interesting stuff comes up but no basis shoot and kill all yet I am
afraid.
Look through some of the research papers to see if you cant find a sheet
with the basic calculations.

j.


On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2012/5/16 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
  are you on about this thing Viesturs?
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_drive

 Yes, exactly.

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Re: [Emc-users] MDI losing queue buffer

[Jan de Kruyf]

Oh well Gene, dont let it bite you.
We just saw my old father off on his trip to the heavenly plains. So he can
ride the wild colts again, bareback, like he did when he was young.
There might have been some rough patches on the way you know, but it never
got him down. His smile was there as always.
I would not have liked to miss the last weeks for anything in the world.
So there you have my take on being not young anymore.


j.



On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:07 PM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Thursday, May 03, 2012 01:50:06 PM sa...@empirescreen.com did opine:

  Hey Gene.  I know it is a pain when stuff like this happens.  I am
  wondering if there is a reason why you cannot run 2.5?  That would
  solve your problem for now.  Master is a place where 'things' happen
  (changes/improvements are made that may cause odd issues)
 
  Could you get by with 2.5 (current release) for a while?
 
  sam

 I probably could Sam, and that would probably get me out of your hair, but
 since I've been chasing electrons to make them do useful work for about 65
 years now, and I am not busy making a living with this, I really don't mind
 playing the canary in the coal mine.  I also do that on the amanda list,
 and I do occasionally catch something well before its installed on a big
 system, like the NY State Dept of Health  AIUI, they back up every machine
 in the whole states system every night.  Something over 7k machines total.

 Troubleshooting I enjoy as long as trouble doesn't shoot back.  I just wish
 I knew enough of the higher level languages to help.  However it seems to
 be glaringly obvious to all (including me) that my short term memory is
 about shot.  Sure I can apologize  make excuses, but its the truth, much
 as I wish it weren't.

 My favorite advice to somebody 50 YO, complaining about his aches is to not
 grow old, its not for wimps. ;-)

 Working on that picket fence worked me over, and I am not walking that well
 today even with my cane.  But I did finish the 2 pieces in the front yard
 while I had some shade this morning.

 Cheers, Gene
 --
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Re: [Emc-users] database Q?

[Jan de Kruyf]

Shame Gene,

Tools - Options. . .  - Load/Save - General - Save AutoRecovery
information every xxx Minutes

And now see how it sings!.

j.


On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 5:12 AM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 In documenting all the wiring around linuxcnc for the lathe, I had started
 a libreoffice-base session and had about half of the C1G wiring all laid
 out so it would be in a format I could easily use to complete the .hal file
 configuration.

 But of course in starting and stopping linuxcnc so many times while I
 verified that what I wrote was correct, the ^)*%#@ system went away on me
 and I had to hit the hdwe reset to reboot it.

 The latest version of LO-Base had been running for perhaps 1.5 hours at
 that point, so if it did do an automatic save, it had yonks to do it in and
 I should have been able to do a full recovery as I hadn't made a new entry
 in 45 minutes or more due to chasing down a broken wire that stopped the Z
 motor steps from getting through.  Which it did attempt, but the only thing
 it could recover was the filename.odt.  About 3kb of mostly binary that did
 not even include the column heading text.   Not even the empty form view
 could be recovered when it tried, and no errors were reported when it tried
 so I had assumed it was successful until I tried to view it  drew a blank.

 This is pure BS.  Needless to say, I won't appreciate ringing all that
 stuff out again, but I will do it so I can trace it 6 months down the log
 when something quits working.

 Does this so-called database program have an auto-save and I didn't have it
 turned on because on is not the default?  Shame on LO-Base in that event.

 If I do this on a pad  stick there is a lot higher chance for mistakes as
 my hand writing needs a translator most of the time.

 If the LO-Base can't do this, can the OO-Base do it?  Or should I just fire
 up vim  see if I can build my own table of wiring?  Vim does lousy gfx for
 row/column marking in case no one has noticed.

 So, what do I use that doesn't stick me in an infinite loop of losing it
 all when this POS crashes again, which it will, exactly like cement?

 Are the BIOS defaults less than optimum for this board perhaps?

 I had a feeling I was in trouble when Jameco sent me the wrong parts for
 the 2nd time.  When I called, and said these solder cup connectors were
 worthless to me, I asked them to find me somebody who, like me, could tell
 the diff between an IDC connector for ribbon cable, and a solder cup
 connector from at least 40 feet away.  I think they found the right one
 this 3rd time, maybe its a charm?  But I will not be convinced till they
 get here again and are correct, he did ask what size the wire was that I
 was crimping.  Has anyone seen a ribbon cable that wasn't 28 gage?  Sigh,
 me neither...

 Cheers, Gene
 --
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  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
 -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
 My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene
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Re: [Emc-users] May be of Interest

[Jan de Kruyf]

Thank you for that link Kirk.
the link looks a bit stale but at the same time it is very much worthwhile
to investigate further.
So I send of an email and downloaded the patches to see what is cooking.

Also I must google the lists a bit because there seems to have been trafic
about it.

By the way Sercos is bragging that old drives can be upgraded with
sercosiii boards without a problem.
So in the light of your findings on Ebay it is worthwhile reseaching this
properly, also for the retrofit market.

j.



On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 10:45 PM, Kirk Wallace
kwall...@wallacecompany.comwrote:

 I found this:
 http://www.bitmuster.org/projects/emc.html

 the thing that comes to mind, considering the rev date, how it seems
 fairly significant, and recent questions on the list, it's a little
 surprising that this hasn't hit the wiki or been on the lists. Am I
 watching the wrong channels? Might the board want to see that this good
 stuff gets a some promotion? Are there other things going on that are
 worth knowing about?

 I'm not judging or suggesting any action (although just a an e-mail
 message with a short title and a link could do wonders:), I'm just
 curious and would like to understand a little more if possible.
 --
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA



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Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter

[Jan de Kruyf]

Good people,
I was maybe a bit snappy last night, as I came just out of one of those
african music and drama things
that take all of you (I participated)

Off course the cnclinux group has discovered some excellent boards over
time.
And off course the RTAI modified kernel is probably the fastest around.
All that is a no issue issue, really.

But to compare OSADL numbers and your home grown numbers is quite wrong i
think.

We do well to take note of OSADL's results because they run boards for
weeks, not hours.
If you look at those graphs properly, they say that there are perhaps
10.000.000 results in the range we normally detect, and
one some laugheable value like 40usecs.

One reason for that is the cpu load they apply, which is quite different
from a normal cnc controller load.
Another reason is genuine hardware latencies that show up only once in a
while.
And yet another reason is that they run a vanilla kernel, perhaps with some
small patches that will become part
of the main kernel in due time.
And then simply a combination of all those reasons interfering with each
other.

So why am I so chaffed by OSADL?
Because ultimately LinuxCNC would not be dependent anymore on a oneman show
or a rather small group
that produces the kernel patches, but rather we would only have one
dependency which would be Linus' Kernel group.

IF and WHEN the software can handle the mainline kernel RT effort, I
personally would change earlier rather than later.

As an example: the whole Beagle board saga that Jon went through would not
have happened if at the time the vanilla kernel would have
been more RT aware, and the RTAPI  would have been vanilla kernel aware. He
could have just built a kernel for his
Beagle board!

Further the Proview PLC group has been running their software for quite a
while already on OSADL patches
without any problems. And they did extensive tests. They do not have a
software stepper module though
But a servo thread at 1 msec is no a problem at all, all bloated C++ code
with lots of maths. And that was with 2.6.xx kernels.
I have not looked properly yet at the new 3 series.

I hope this clarifies my position in the 'jitter' debate.

For steppers I like Viesturs solution with harware step generation, but
that is a whole new debate that revolves about $$
rather then technicalities. And I feel very strongly that the group as a
whole cannot do without those that manage to
cut corners (money wise) around every bend. It brings in lots of fresh
thinking!

j.




On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 7:52 AM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Saturday, March 31, 2012 01:44:21 AM Jon Elson did opine:

  Jan de Kruyf wrote:
   Do you get those errors with servos Gene? or with steppers!
  
   I am interested, since Jon was praising that board so much.
  
   But I am encountering following errors after the motor has reached
   speed and moved a good distance at that speed, but don't know what
   to adjust that affects that.
 
  This is caused by requesting a greater pulse rate than the base thread
  can put out.  One possible cause is if the pulse width setting is
  made too large.  You want this set correctly for the motor drive,
  but not any larger.  Then, figure out at what feedrate the error shows
  up.  Say that is 50 IPM.  And, for example, say it takes 30,000
  steps to move one inch.  (50 IPM / 60) X 30,000 = 25000 steps/second.
  Now, assuming you are using the best step generator scheme which
  times the pulse width, if your base thread was greater than 40 us
  (40,000 ns) then you can't go that fast.  Or, if you set the step pulse
  width to 20 us, then you can't go that fast.  (50% hi, 50% low, of
  20us each adds up to 40 us.
 
  So, just do the calc, and see what time is 1/step pulse rate, and then
  compare to your base thread time.  Your base thread really needs to
  be MUCH higher than the fastest step pulse rate, due to the granularity.
 
  If the machine were running at a speed where every other base thread
  cycle produced a step pulse, then the next higher speed would require
  a step pulse EVERY base thread cycle, which is a 100% speed jump.
  LinuxCNC can certainly send pulses at that rate, but that is too
  large a speed jump for the motor to follow.
 
 
  Jon

 ATM, I am waiting on connectors that will allow me to make much shorter
 parport cables so I can experiment with narrower pulses.  A 6 foot, round
 cable has got to ring like the liberty bell so I hadn't tired shorter
 pulses.

 ATM pulse widths are set to 3 u-s, as is dir setup and dir hold. 20 u-s
 base thread on a D525MW board.  I'm hitting the errors at 39-40 ipm.  I am
 beginning to think I should tolerate the noise and go back to 8 microsteps
 to get the higher speed.  I expect I'll have to make a damper for the z
 motor in that event.

 Thanks Jon.

 Cheers, Gene
 --
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 My web page: http

Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter

[Jan de Kruyf]

Look here for fast motherboard - cpu combinations:

https://www.osadl.org/Individual-system-data.qa-farm-data.0.html#c4366

unfortunately we cant use the osadl kernel patch as yet (that will be my
next gripe, after I am over the present one.
So dont expect results any time soon.)

cheers,

j.




On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:30 AM, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:


 On Mar 29, 2012, at 12:59 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

  1) If You mean: which jitter number from latency test results to take
  into account?
  25us figure represents jitter in base thread.
  1ms figure represents jitter in servo thread.
 
  Which figure to use? It depends... Will You run anything in base
  thread (like Erik mentioned - software step generation is one of the
  tasks for base thread) or will everything be done in servo thread?

 I am using servos with the Gecko 320.

  2) If You mean: which number to take for the latency number to run?
  IMHO, the question is not valid, You cannot put Your own numbers
  there, You simply should open latency test and press run (or
  something like that, I do not remember correctly) and then, with that

 I am familiar with the latency test, that is exactly what I was referring
 to. It reports two Max Jitters there and I did not know for certain that
 one was for servos and the other for steppers. Thank you.

 Does anyone know of some known settings to try disabling in CMOS to
 possibly get lower numbers? My 1.0ms Max Jitter is under 9300, but if
 possible I would like to get it even lower.

 Thanks!


 Best,

 Jeshua Lacock
 Founder/Engineer
 3DTOPO Incorporated
 http://3DTOPO.com
 Phone: 208.462.4171



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Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter

[Jan de Kruyf]

It is the combination that matters Viesturs.
The ASUS board in the first rack is impressive.

j.


On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2012/3/30 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
  Look here for fast motherboard - cpu combinations:
 
  https://www.osadl.org/Individual-system-data.qa-farm-data.0.html#c4366
 

 And that page is very good at showing that more cores and higher cpu
 clock rates do not necessarily mean less jitter.
 For example, quad-core i7:

 https://www.osadl.org/Latency-plot-of-system-in-rack-5-slot.qa-latencyplot-r5s1.0.html
 vs dual-core i3:

 https://www.osadl.org/Latency-plot-of-system-in-rack-1-slot.qa-latencyplot-r1s0.0.html

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter

[Jan de Kruyf]

Yes you are right on the dot there.

j.


On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2012/3/30 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
  It is the combination that matters Viesturs.

 Well, I think that there are many factors that matter.
 My goal was to explain Jeshua and probably other new users that for
 stepper machines (meaning all the machines, which control motor drives
 with step/dir signals and do not receive any position feedback -
 mostly steppers, but it includes also Gecko G320 drives and other,
 respectively, it is stepper machine from controller point of view) it
 is much better (in terms of overall benefit and also total cost) to go
 for a cheap mb + cpu and use external fpga card for hardware step
 generation rather than get expensive and powerful pc and generate
 steps in software.
 Cheaper mb and cpu (many users, including me, are very happy with
 Intel D510/D525 line of motherboards, that already comes with
 preinstalled dual-core cpu and costs less than 100 $) will have little
 higher jitter, but it does not really much matter, because it would
 not run base thread (most affected by jitter) at all. Several us back
 or forth do not affect 1ms servo thread.
 And I am not mentioning all the fpga card benefits, like increased
 number of i/o pins etc.

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter

[Jan de Kruyf]

That is very impressive Jon,
I will certainly look out for an Intel D510MW being hooked up in the OSADL
test rack,
and see what it does under their exact conditions!
And how many days did you run that board with an RTAI kernel and got that
result?

Keep the bright side up!

j.


On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 Jan de Kruyf wrote:
  It is the combination that matters Viesturs.
  The ASUS board in the first rack is impressive.
 
 Impressively mediocre!  It has jitter events out to 40 us!
 For about $150 you can build an Intel D510MW system that
 will do almost TEN TIMES better, a good reliable 5 us
 latency, maybe even better if you dedicate a CPU to RT.

 Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter

[Jan de Kruyf]

Do you get those errors with servos Gene? or with steppers!

I am interested, since Jon was praising that board so much.

j.


2012/3/30 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com

 On Friday, March 30, 2012 10:12:25 AM Jan de Kruyf did opine:

  Yes you are right on the dot there.
 
  j.
 
  On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Viesturs Lؤپcis
 viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:
   2012/3/30 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
It is the combination that matters Viesturs.
  
   Well, I think that there are many factors that matter.
   My goal was to explain Jeshua and probably other new users that for
   stepper machines (meaning all the machines, which control motor drives
   with step/dir signals and do not receive any position feedback -
   mostly steppers, but it includes also Gecko G320 drives and other,
   respectively, it is stepper machine from controller point of view) it
   is much better (in terms of overall benefit and also total cost) to go
   for a cheap mb + cpu and use external fpga card for hardware step
   generation rather than get expensive and powerful pc and generate
   steps in software.
   Cheaper mb and cpu (many users, including me, are very happy with
   Intel D510/D525 line of motherboards, that already comes with
   preinstalled dual-core cpu and costs less than 100 $) will have little
   higher jitter, but it does not really much matter, because it would
   not run base thread (most affected by jitter) at all. Several us back
   or forth do not affect 1ms servo thread.
   And I am not mentioning all the fpga card benefits, like increased
   number of i/o pins etc.
  
   Viesturs

 While I find the D525MW to be a more capable machine than anything else I
 have run my stuff with.  The one I am setting up to run the lathe with has,
 without using stepconfig because stepconfig says it has a broken pipe when
 it tries to move the motor, while I can fire up linuxcnc (using axis)
 has already moved the motors above 40 IPM while they are laying on the
 bench.

 Its as if intel set out to build the ideal board just for us.

 But I am encountering following errors after the motor has reached speed
 and moved a good distance at that speed, but don't know what to adjust that
 affects that.

 Hints anyone?

 Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Total OT - TV signal

[Jan de Kruyf]

 But, who has time to watch TV anyway?

I cannot resist the temptation: Viesturs' parents!!

j.


On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Kirk Wallace
kwall...@wallacecompany.comwrote:

 On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 19:05 +0200, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
  Hello, guys!
 
  I have a total off-topic question, because this is the only place I
  know to ask technical kind of questions.
 
  Is there any way to boost the signal of digital TV?
  The thing is that at my parents' house the signal is not very good,
  and pretty often lots of channels are not working due to weak signal.
  The house is surrounded by hills and high trees and I do not think
  that building 30-40 m tall mast is an easy and cheap thing to do, so I
  was thinking if someone can suggest a way to boost the signal (and
  probably filter the noise).
 
  Thanks!
 
  Viesturs

 I use something like this amplifier:
 http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=AP8700

 A power supply goes on the antenna coax in the house and the amplifier
 goes on the antenna outside and gets power through the coax. I can get
 mostly decent signals from 150 miles or 240 kilometers away, but only
 the stations I have near line-of-site with. Some days I get no signal
 but most days I do.

 I use an antenna similar to this one:
 http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?p=4228-HD

 and I need both amp and antenna to get a signal.

 But, who has time to watch TV anyway?

 --
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA



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Re: [Emc-users] Some more Storebro260(FANUC/Sinumerik) docs...

[Jan de Kruyf]

Holmquist,
Do find out when the last major mechanical overhaul was done when you
encounter machines like this.
You will get into untold misery if you think that a retrofit of the
computer solves all ills.

Customers have this weird belief that the mechanical side is still as new
(because it did not break yet)
because they _think_ they understand mechanical issues.

j.


On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:02 AM, Roger Holmquist ro...@abcnc.se wrote:

 Just added two more docs to my site
 1) Image of Storebro 260, probably a similar machine I will encounter
 on Wednesday!
 2) A german(!) techSpec from Storebro, veeery old but still decodable...

 http://abcnc.se/docs/Storebro260.png
 http://abcnc.se/docs/Storebro260-TechSpec_german.pdf

 Maybe someone recognizes the control?

 / Roger



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Re: [Emc-users] Newbie speaks again, this time FANUC/Siemes...

[Jan de Kruyf]

Holmquist,
If your luck holds I might have a manual in the archives (VERY dusty boxes)
and if that is true then it was already old in 1990.
Siemens was already going their own way then. The cooperation was even
before that time.

I will have a look in the week.

j.


On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 9:57 PM, Roger Holmquist ro...@abcnc.se wrote:


 I got a task from my coming boss and that is to configure an old
 Storebro 160 Lathe running Sinumerik 6T.
 There is an issue about resetting the coordinate system to the
 workpiece and doing tool compensation setup.
 He also told me the Siemens system should be the same as a FANUC 6 ?

 Anyway, manuals for the system would be nice to have as that should
 be the reason for the problem, maybe someone have a link or can point
 in some direction?

 BTW, what about such a machine as a LinuxCNC target, don't know much
 about it's features right now...

 / Roger

 PS
 Viestus, thanks for your reply, I Guess you found my link who might
 explain my cryptic statement about non-CNC-territory ;-)
 DS





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Re: [Emc-users] Marketing LinuxCNC, was Re: Trajectory planning and other topics from a EMC(LinuxCNC) newbie

[Jan de Kruyf]

clap, clap, clap . .  . . . .

I second the motion.

If and when I have some free time I might knock up a quick flyer based on
these notions.
Obviously for others to add on to.

We will need some real clean shiny pictures though. Close-ups work very
well.
Are there volunteers?

j.


On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 7:05 AM, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote:

 I worked for a company where we did 'market open software'.

 We sold Asterisk based VOIP telephone PBX systems.

 They were 'white box' hardware (generic, nothing special) systems,
 with Linux, Asterisk, and other support software all installed,
 integrated, configured for the customers.

 There was NOTHING we did a customer could not have done for
 themselves.  What we were selling was our expertise, time, and our
 'shortcut' to solutions.  They did purchase some hardware over and
 above our time as well.

 What companies seem to want to purchase is not 'software' and
 'hardware'.  They want solutions.

 If you can sell a solution that they don't have to do anything to get
 it to work, it can be 'sold' as a high value proposition to the
 customer who needs the solution to solve their problem.

 ...

 It took me some time to realize we were not selling product ... we
 were selling solutions.


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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc, possibly bug, or global isn't global

[Jan de Kruyf]

Gene,
I dont know, but sometimes Cprogrammers designing a new (linuxcnc) language
seem to be infected by C rules.

So KR says that the scope of a variable does not extend outside the block
where it is defined (read: first assigned to, in this case)

Now a compound statement (a sequence of statements) under an if, else, for,
while, do, etc. construct is such a block.

Quite logical really, beause who says that the program willl follow the
exact path through the block where you first defined your variable.

so better safe than sorry and the variable goes up in smoke as soon as you
leave such a block.

AND if there was a variable with the same name before you entered this
block, that var will come back alive.
while inside the block it was in hybernation, because you called a new
variable with the same name into being, by assigning to it.

j.


On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:22 AM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Wednesday, March 07, 2012 06:16:33 PM Mark Wendt did opine:

  On 03/07/2012 08:22 AM, gene heskett wrote:
   See my previous msg Karl, I believe I have it working.  But its too
   cold in the shop to expect vactra to act warm enough for the
   feedrates, so all I am doing ATM is cutting virtual air. ;)
  
   Thanks.
  
   As for this problem, from the clues I'm picking up here, if a global
   variable is created/adjusted inside of an onumber while, its gone when
   the corresponding onumber endwhile is finished.  That is the only
   conclusion I can come to that fits the observed results.
  
   IMO, if its defined globally, as in #_name, even if its inside a
   while/endwhile then it s/b globally usable.  Such seems not to be
   the case.  So it seems to be at odds with the docs in this regard.
   Fixing that, could even fix the exit crashing I'm getting maybe?  As
   in a screwed up stack?
  
   Cheers, Gene
 
  Gene,
 
  How are you returning the value of the global variable after you exit
  the loop?  Perhaps you need an assignment statement prior to the exit of
  the loop to ensure you are returning the value you want?  Crazy things
  can happen inside those things to global variables.
 
  mark

 I had been assuming that it was whatever it was inside the loop, when the
 loop fell through.  That didn't turn out to be overly reliable as it was
 often the same value as before the loop, even if it had been modified 360k
 times inside the loop.

 Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] linuxcnc, possibly bug, or global isn't global

[Jan de Kruyf]

Typical 1st world behaviour of Gene,
just toss a handgranade to stun them . . . . . .

j.


On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote:


 Am 09.03.2012 um 05:40 schrieb gene heskett:

  On Thursday, March 08, 2012 11:21:41 PM Michael Haberler did opine:
 
  Am 08.03.2012 um 18:07 schrieb gene heskett:
  On Thursday, March 08, 2012 12:06:38 PM Mark Wendt did opine:
  On 03/08/2012 09:41 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
  This thread is now 15 posts long.
 
  Is there any chance that the actual and expected behaviour can be
  condensed into a short testcase, please
 
  I'm referring to actual NGC code - opinions do not lend themselves
  to debugging.
 
  -m
 
  Only 15 posts?  Jeez Gene, yer slippin'.  ;-)
 
  Mark
 
  Sorry about that, but you see I have this pond to drain, and first I
  have to dispose of all the alligators before I can find the drain
  plug. :)
 
  just make sure you describe those wild, wild animals accurately in a
  comprehensive bug report in the tracker. Dont forget to include weight,
  tail diameter and jaw pressure (metric or imperial ok, but units
  required)
 
  we'll do the guns 'n ammo part of the deal thereafter
 
  And just what do you suppose I intend to use to control that gator
  population?  In that dept, I am fairly well equipt.  I don't call 911,
 and
  I don't shoot store bought shells, but I have burned out 6 rifle
 barrels, 4

 I am impressed, but those irreverent bugs still dont care. So, where's the
 test case?

 -m

 



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Re: [Emc-users] q on taperlock hubs

[Jan de Kruyf]

Gene does this make sense:?

3/4 taper per foot is a self locking taper

from:
http://www.emerson-ept.com/eptroot/public/prod/Components/VBeltDrives/default.asp

you might want to log in and get the instruction sheet on that site,
perhaps it gives more.

j.


On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 10:10 PM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Sunday, March 04, 2012 01:18:58 PM Dave did opine:

  I think that Dodge and Browning taperlocks are interchangeable ??
 
  http://www.dodge-pt.com/products/pt_components/bushing/bushings.html.

 Doesn't say.
 
  I found this:
 
  http://www.baldor.com/downloads/manuals/_downloads/4003-810.pdf
 
 Ambiguous at best, whats a pot chuck?

  Apparently the QD bushings have a different taper than the Taperlock
  bushings.
 
  They say 8 degrees for Taperlock and 4 degrees for QDs.   That is a lot
  different than the discussion here:
 
  http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/taperlock-angle-175512/
 
  But I am pretty sure that 1.5 degrees is incorrect.
 
  I think I have QD bushings here and I might have a Taperlock also.. if I
  can find it.
 
  Dave
 
 Even the 1.78991061 degrees off centerline seems pretty slow.  Given that
 we are talking about a 1/4 shaft here, I am inclined to just machine for
 an arbitrary 4 degrees.  And figure on the initial fitting not reaching all
 the way thru the gear with a hand push.  The idea being to get away from
 the flange for increased crush flexibility.  I'll finish the hub, then fit
 the hole in the gear accordingly.  This is turning into a major project. :)

 I just looked in the Handbook, which doesn't cover the Browning stuff that
 I could find.  The one taper they do discuss is really steep, 3.5/foot,
 and preliminary math says that is way too steep since I only need a 10 thou
 crush worst case.  That would have a nominally .175 taper in .600.

 We'll figure out something, never fear.  Called in for lunch, I had half a
 dozen snow flakes go by my nose walking down to the house.

 No comment on slitting it with a diamond wheel running under K1?  Or has
 someone a much faster way?

 Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] math problem, about 8 places out

[Jan de Kruyf]

gene,
your great wisdom got befuzzled by linuxcnc

radius increase = Zstep * tan(2)

if it is 2 degrees per side you want.
(incase you are decreasing the radius every time you feed the Zaxis you
must put a minussign somewhere of course.

just draw the picture of what the machine must do, and put your variable
names in the picture.
It will soon get clear.


j.

PS.
 I do not see why linuxcnc wants to hang on you piece of code, unless it is
as
Jon says that the stepper thread is eating all of the cpu time.

cheers.


On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:38 AM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 Hi all;

 I am trying to cut a 4 degree taper, so while I explore how it works in
 kcalc, I am getting slightly conflicting answers:
 First, its 2 degrees for the radius tilt from vertical, so in degree mode
 cos(2)=0.999390827019, but I think I need

 1.000-0.999390827019=0.000609172980904

 which is subsequently divided by 600, the total z motion divided by the
 zincrement of .001 which then gives me the increase in diameter of the G2
 cut I make for every .001 descent of the cutter.

 Or, do I want this:
 1.0 - 1/x cos(2) = 0.000609544298822

 Note the diff.  Which one, further divided by 600, is the correct taper?

 Or should they be the same, and its actually kcalc that is a little fuzzy?

 Granted, this is probably asking my mill for 20x the accuracy those 20 tpi
 acme screws have, but I let it cut a band about 3/32 wide at the top, where
 it became obvious that I had forgotten to scale what I did have by that
 /600, as the angle looked like somewhere near 45 degrees, not 2.  But the
 part isn't damaged as all that s/b cut away anyway when and if I get it
 right...

 Comments?

 Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Backlash elimination [Was: OT- Not quite your hobby sized mill]

[Jan de Kruyf]

I'd say the contra-torque statement says that one of the gears is split
'horizontally' (seen when it lays on the table)
and the main motor drives the one while an auxiliary applies a constant
torque on the other in oposite direction.
And so: no backlash.
For direction change the motors change roles.

Quit clever actually, there is no wear-induced inaccuracy this way. it
stays good forever and a day.

j.

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Erik Christiansen
dva...@internode.on.netwrote:

 On 28.02.12 12:32, dave wrote:
  Check this mill out.  Used to make the molds for the America's Cup
  boats.
 
  http://www.janicki.com/5-axis-milling.html

 That offhand mention of contra-torque backlash elimination is kinda
 interesting, but perhaps it's not that different from a loaded ballnut
 pair?

 Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] gEDA and PCB-Gcode

[Jan de Kruyf]

most pcb's are specified as a 'Gerber-file'. the language is very much
G-code related BUT. . .
it specifies the thickness of the pen (or the aperture) and the
cooordinates of the track that is drawn with it.

But for milling we need the negative  i.e. the coordinates of the
isolation between the tracks.

So I guess if you draw your pcb as a negative you might get away with
just massaging the gerber file a little.

j.


On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 2:51 AM, Gary Fiber gfi...@comcast.net wrote:

 Any one on this list successfully using gEDA and PCB with PCB-Gcode to
 mill printed Circuit Boards?

 Gary Fiber K8IZ


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Re: [Emc-users] Ladder Modbus Slave

[Jan de Kruyf]

Well now. . .
If I wanted to set up a Proview Scada system (http://www.proview.se/) with
some autonomous material handling robots
here and there, this modbus slave feature might just come in very handy.
Just for a bit of interlocking, nothing fancy.
So speed is not at all important, neither is advanced data handling.

Or even for communication with an advanced toolchanger setup with an
extended toolstore. A single station LCNC (EMC) will be
totally lost without a dedicated tool exchange computer in such cases.
And why must LCNC poll the toolchanger contimually, there might just as
well be a second channel where the toolchanger
is the master.

My 1/2 cents (SouthAfrican) worth.

j.


On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:37 PM, Chris Morley chrisinnana...@hotmail.comwrote:




 
  Yes, Modbus doesn't seem to want to die and is handy for VFD's and
  PLC's. The point I was try to explore is why LinuxCNC has a slave
  feature as well as the master feature. VFD's and PLC's are slaves and
  provide services to LinxCNC, so why would I want to have LinuxCNC be a
  slave? This could allow two LinuxCNC PC's to talk to each other, but I
  would think there are easier ways to do this. I think the feature is
  there because it is part of the Modbus package and got a free ride. It's
  no big deal, I was just curious, but I might want to give it some
  attention if someone is actually using it.
 
  I use Modbus with VFD's and some time in the future maybe an AVR tool
  changer controller, others use it with PLC's. My plan so far is to keep
  any focus I may have on those items.
  --

 As was mentioned Modbus master/slave is incorporated with Classicladder.
 Version 7.100 (the first version included in EMC2) actually had Modbus in
 the source - it was just turned off.
 When I updated EMC2 to the 7.124 version, I decided to include it.

 I personally never got the slave version to work but that is probably
 because
 I don't understand TCP connections.
 Do you connect two computers with crossover cable or must you use a router?
 How do you find the address?

 Marc (Classicladders creator) tells me he has tested it and it worked.
 He just never supplied step by step instructions.

 I can see no reason not to have a slave feature. If you have a separate
 computer
 you could use it as a smart PLC without slowing down your main computer.
 or have the second computer run windows (CL runs in windows too)
 The original CL was made to be able to be included in embedded machines.

 Also it would allow you to test your Modbus connection which is probably
 why
 Marc coded it.

 If you figure out how to use it please add it to the official docs.

 Chris M


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Re: [Emc-users] Ladder Modbus Slave

[Jan de Kruyf]

http://www.modbus-ida.org/tech.php

j.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Chris Morley chrisinnana...@hotmail.comwrote:



 
  There may be a function that can look this up, but I think it's hard for
  the API to know what network the app needs to use, although 99% of the
  time the host has a single Ethernet port making the practical choice
  easy. I got the libmodbus 3 unit-test demo to work by just doing a
  ifconfig to to get my IP address and plugged that in. That's all that
  was needed. RTU over TCP is probably a different story. My LinuxCNC
  master could send queries just fine, but the unit-test slave isn't set
  up to return anything interesting. Successes for unit-test demo seems to
  be a lack of error messages.
 

 CL requires the address and the port number (9502 id default).
 I somewhat understand the address but not really the port number.
 Can you elaborate how you found this info? keep in mind I have
 almost no knowledge of networks other then plugging in my ethernet cable
 in to my cable internet router. :)

 Chris M


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Re: [Emc-users] Ladder Modbus Slave

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hallo,
Using ModbusTCP will give LinuxCNC just a slightly more industrial look.
So I would very much vote to keep that! and even expand on it.
It makes it just a little bit easier to sell.

Cheers,

j.

On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Kirk Wallace
kwall...@wallacecompany.comwrote:

 Why does LinuxCNC's Ladder have a Modbus slave? Does anyone use it? I'm
 looking into using it for testing a LinuxCNC TCP master, but wondered if
 it might be used elsewhere. I'd also like to get an idea of how many
 people use PLC's and/or ModbusTCP with LinuxCNC.
 --
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA



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Re: [Emc-users] The future of LinuxCNC mailing lists andbug tracking

[Jan de Kruyf]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:42 PM, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote:

 Thanks Alex for the clarifications..

 We have devided our attention amongst different areas of services, but
 that
 doesn't mean if one goes away, that others couldn't fit the empty shoes.

 

 It sounds like you guys have contingency plans in place.

 Just an aside... but what is going on with Sourceforge?   I just got on
 there and the adds are extreme!
 I thought they had adds before, but nothing like what I saw yesterday!
 It is really distracting.


consider installing Adblock Plus in your Firefox and block
doubleclick.net(and a few others)

j.




 Dave

 On 2/22/2012 5:53 AM, Alex Joni wrote:
 
 
  While I am sure that you guys are more than capable of running the
  server outside of Sourceforge, what always concerns me in situations
  like this
  is the dependency on certain people to do certain things without a solid
  backup plan.
 
  If plan A is to have person X run and administer the server, what
  happens if person X becomes unavailable (let your imagination run wild.
 )
  ?
 
  What is plan B?
 
  And where does that leave the server/s and all of the people who depend
  on it.
 
 
  As it is now - there is equal access to the webserver for all board
 members.
  That means each of us has the same powers to adjust things given the
 need.
  That access (involving ssh to the server) allows us to do things that
 aren't
  already available through standard tools:
  - for the webpage we do most administration through the web interface
 (the
  administrators who can do that are not limited to the board members,
 there
  are a couple more with the same access rights,)
  Very seldom there is a need to query/modify the database or hack on the
 code
  directly).
 
  We have devided our attention amongst different areas of services, but
 that
  doesn't mean if one goes away, that others couldn't fit the empty shoes.
 
  The same will be true for mailinglists and bugtracker.
 
 
  I have to answer this kind of question all of the time for my
  customers.  (And some of them have zero tact, so I frequently get to
  reflect on my age and health..  ;-) )
 
  And it's quite a pertinent question to ask.
  Hopefully I addressed your concearns.
 
  Regards,
  Alex
 
 
  I trust you guys will make a good decision.
 
  The adds don't bother me.  But the possible vulnerabilities do.
 
  Thanks for asking for input.  :-)
 
  Dave
 
 
 
 
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[Emc-users] spam

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hallo Kurniadi,

Sorry my friend but you are creating spam again on the emc mailinglist.
Hope you noticed it.

Regards,

Jan de Kruyf.
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Re: [Emc-users] OT-bandsaw

[Jan de Kruyf]

the ballbearings!

at least one of the wheels does not run perfectly parallel to the other
wheel anymore.
(my logical reasoning wife will now tell me I cocked up that sentence, bt
never mind)

j.

On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:22 PM, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:


 Hi all,

 I have a cheapie horizontal bandsaw that has performed decently well
 for 10 years or so and just recently started sheddinga the blade after a
 few turns.

 As far as I can tell the blade works its way off the non-driven wheel.
 I suspect the guides (ball bearings) are at fault but will entertain
 other reasonable ideas.

 What am I missing?

 Thanks in advance.

 Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] OT-bandsaw

[Jan de Kruyf]

nah! she did a semester of logical reasoning, much worse!

My peabrain finally woke up to the facts of bandsaws.

Last time I had this not only were the bearings gone but also the crown of
one of the wheels
was completely eaten away by shavings caught between the blade and the
crown.
We turned a ring with a new crown surface and shrunk it onto the old wheel.
As far as I know that thing is still going strong.

j.


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:59 PM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Thursday, February 16, 2012 03:56:45 PM Jan de Kruyf did opine:

  the ballbearings!
 
  at least one of the wheels does not run perfectly parallel to the other
  wheel anymore.
  (my logical reasoning wife will now tell me I cocked up that sentence,
  bt never mind)
 
  j.

 Of course Jan, particularly if your wife has a built in spell checker and
 is a retired school teacher.  I catch it all the time.  She thinks it is in
 her job description as a wife.  ;-)

 Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Is the Intel D510M0 Processor still a good choice for a new EMC2 application?

[Jan de Kruyf]

just for fun:
check powersupply cable
check power connectors onto the board
check harddrive power connectors
check memory connectors
check cpu connector.

for check read: apply contactcleaner (not the lubricating type) liberally
and plug in and out a few times.

otherwise this might be your harddrives' way of telling you: Please replace
me!
or perhaps the motherboard itself of course

enjoy.

j.


On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Don Stanley dstanley1...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi All;
 All my shop EMC2 applications are running on D510M0's.
 Is this also a good choice for the new one?

 After EMC2 was taught how to deal with the D510M0's printer port
 strangeness,
 the have done great except for boot up after being powered down several
 days in
 a 60 degree F shop. I can't determine it the chips need a little warming
 or if
 the battery needs a little charge.
 The fix is easy, just push the reset button when they stall in boot up and
 they
 boot up ready to go.

  Has anyone had similar experience, or know what causing the hang ups.

Thanks
Don


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Re: [Emc-users] rho-sigma machine?

[Jan de Kruyf]

I was very seriously thinking about a machine like that, but with the
rotary positioned at an angle.
and an extra linear axis.
We are waiting for the customer to make up his mind.

All problems I saw was kinematics which as you said are not all that
involved.
And perhaps some python script to massage the output of the CAM package.
Mainly since the feedrate depends very much on the cutter tip distance from
the centerline of the rotary axis.
In my case the cutter might even pass the centerline of the workpiece.

But all that is only maths in the end.

Have fun

j.

On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 7:49 AM, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote:


 List:

 Does anyone know of a Linuxcnc user that has implemented a working
 rho-sigma machine, eg. one linear axis and one rotary axis. The kins
 should not be difficult and it should prove to be quite stiff.


 Dave


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Re: [Emc-users] PID BLDC

[Jan de Kruyf]

I seem to remember some long ago shit with the rise time of the 5V supply
for some logic ICs. In fact I installed a DeltaTau board that
hangs every other start-up because the start-up time of some PC
power-supply that supplies it is too slow.

Solution to that one: interlock the 5 Volt with the power-supply ready
signal from the PSU.

It is a problem with any cheap switch-mode power-supply, but then I did NOT
say that this is your problem; but it might.

cheers

j.


On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Viesturs Lācis
viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2011/11/26 Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com:
 
  Is your 5 volt supply that you are using floating? IE, the 0V level is
  not referenced to the wall plug etc?
 
  If you are not sure, you might want to try stealing 5 volts off your PC.

 I already am taking 5V supply from PC's PSU.

  Also, how long is your EPP cord? I forget the max distance but it is not
  very far. Maybe 6 feet or so?? I think the specs are in the 7i43 manual.

 7i43 is inside PC case. Cable length is less than 50 cm (20 inches).

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] PID BLDC

[Jan de Kruyf]

Viesturs,
the problem is in the rate of change of the ps. in other words how fast the
5 Volt is reached from startup.
A switch-mode supply pumps up the output capacitor a little bit with each
cycle of the switching circuit ( like a bicycle pump with a tyre).
So if the ps is a bit cheap it might take some time before the capacitor is
pumped up to 5 Volt. So that is why there is a ps. ready signal coming from
the ps to the motherboard in the big ps plug.

maybe try putting a manual switch in the card 5Volt supply that you switch
on as soon as the bios test screen comes up. At that point the ps is stable
cause the computer has started, and it is early enough for linux, which has
not started yet.

At the same time the rise of the 5 Volt is guaranteed to be fast enough in
this way. And see what happens. You never know.


cheers

j.



On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Viesturs Lācis
viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2011/11/26 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
  I seem to remember some long ago shit with the rise time of the 5V supply
  for some logic ICs. In fact I installed a DeltaTau board that
  hangs every other start-up because the start-up time of some PC
  power-supply that supplies it is too slow.
 
  Solution to that one: interlock the 5 Volt with the power-supply ready
  signal from the PSU.

 I am ready to test even craziest possible causes of the problem :))
 I suppose I could test it by measuring the voltage right before
 starting EMC. Is that correct? I suspect I need something above 4V for
 the card to work.
 Another thing - Power LED on the card is shining, when I turn on the
 PC, so I suspect that is a signal, that it receives 5V power.

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] OT, Ball screw bearings, preload

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hallo,
look at the picture quickly:

http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/jsp/viewers/tableViewer.jsp?tableName=1_3_t3maincatalogue=1lang=en

the left side picture is normally the situation when there is a big nut on
the shaft to hold the bearing in place. This nut either has a counter-nut
to lock it or it is of a special construction so it can be secured. If this
is the case then make sure the nut-face that holds the brearings is
perfectly flat and square.
The right picture is the case when the outerrings need compressing by a
specially made ring (again perfectly flat and square). The shaft locknut
does not need to be quite as perfect in that case.

In both cases the object of the exercise is to close the natural gap
between the rings. This will give the bearings just the right preload.

j.



On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Bruce Klawiter bmkl...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I bought new bearings for the ball screws on my mill, SKF 7204 BECBP.

 http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/Forwarder?action=PPPlang=enimperial=falsewindowName=nullperfid=123002prodid=1230020204

 I have read conflicting information on how to install them.
 It appears the best way would be installing them back to back, but I have
 read the inner rings should be clamped tight and also read the outer rings
 should be clamped tight when there back to back.

 I am not sure I understand the proload either and can't decipher what it
 is form the SKF website.

 This is what I think I need to do, find what the preload is (weight) and
 measure the defection of the outer race when this weight is placed on the
 bearing.

 Take this measurement X 2 and shim between the the races of the two
 bearings and clamp tight the inner rings and I will have the correct
 preload.

 Do I have this right.
 How do I find the preload

 Your help is greatly appreciated,
 Bruce


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Re: [Emc-users] OT, Ball screw bearings, preload

[Jan de Kruyf]

Oh dear,
I slipped up. (Again)
I clicked on the preload link in the speck sheet that Bruce linked to.
and lo and behold SKF puts the link for preloaded bearings on a normal
bearing spec sheet.
So my apologies for not noticing earlier.

Then in this case you will need to measure your bearings out on the table
and see if the one ring is higher or lower than the other when you support
just one of them and let the other rest on the balls in loaded position.
then you make some sums and make up 2 spacer rings, one for the outer races
and one for the inner races of the bearing set.
Those rings are turned as accurately as possible and normally ground on the
faces, but if you turn very well you might get away with just the lathe.
the difference in hight between the outer ring and the inner ring match the
bearings in such a way that the balls in each of them are comressed by
about 5 um. So if the bearings were perfectly true and the inner ring and
the outer ring were level when one ring is floating and resting on the
balls, then the one distance ring is made 0.01mm shorter than the other so
that when everything is tightened the balls get compressed with the right
preload.

Asides, perhaps now we see why people are prepaired to pay the premium and
let SKF worry about the right gap for the preload.

cheers, have fun

j.

On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Andy Ibbotson andyi_w...@btinternet.comwrote:

 Be careful here, the bearings purchased are BE CB P.  The CB  denotes an
 axial CLEARANCE class of bearing i.e.

 http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/jsp/viewers/tableViewer.jsp?tableName=1_3_t1maincatalogue=1lang=en

 If you want preload then you new universally matched pairs (+ lots more $)
 which are marked with GA  GB or GC depending on preload i.e.

 http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/jsp/viewers/tableViewer.jsp?tableName=1_3_t3maincatalogue=1lang=en

 GA, GB, GC bearings don't need shims as they are ground to produce the
 correct preload.  With type CB bearings you need a spacer between the
 bearings and then some method of applying the preload, i.e. tighten by
 feel, wave washer etc.

 Hope this helps.
 --
 From: Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com
 Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 4:08 PM
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT, Ball screw bearings, preload

  Hallo,
  look at the picture quickly:
 
 
 http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/jsp/viewers/tableViewer.jsp?tableName=1_3_t3maincatalogue=1lang=en
 
  the left side picture is normally the situation when there is a big nut
 on
  the shaft to hold the bearing in place. This nut either has a counter-nut
  to lock it or it is of a special construction so it can be secured. If
  this
  is the case then make sure the nut-face that holds the brearings is
  perfectly flat and square.
  The right picture is the case when the outerrings need compressing by a
  specially made ring (again perfectly flat and square). The shaft locknut
  does not need to be quite as perfect in that case.
 
  In both cases the object of the exercise is to close the natural gap
  between the rings. This will give the bearings just the right preload.
 
  j.
 
 
 
  On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Bruce Klawiter bmkl...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
 
  I bought new bearings for the ball screws on my mill, SKF 7204 BECBP.
 
 
 http://www.skf.com/skf/productcatalogue/Forwarder?action=PPPlang=enimperial=falsewindowName=nullperfid=123002prodid=1230020204
 
  I have read conflicting information on how to install them.
  It appears the best way would be installing them back to back, but I
 have
  read the inner rings should be clamped tight and also read the outer
  rings
  should be clamped tight when there back to back.
 
  I am not sure I understand the proload either and can't decipher what it
  is form the SKF website.
 
  This is what I think I need to do, find what the preload is (weight) and
  measure the defection of the outer race when this weight is placed on
 the
  bearing.
 
  Take this measurement X 2 and shim between the the races of the two
  bearings and clamp tight the inner rings and I will have the correct
  preload.
 
  Do I have this right.
  How do I find the preload
 
  Your help is greatly appreciated,
  Bruce
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT EMC on control signal

[Jan de Kruyf]

Erik,
what you say is off course all very true, but there is an adder in the
grass: this is only when all wiring in the system is done according to the
rules!!!
And I assure you that the UPS is NOT. Oterwise these problems would not
exist.

So personally I would like to blame the earth wire all the same with the
rest of the incoming wires, for the moment at least.
I have seen a 1 inch stub of earth wire connected within the screened off
area disturb the entire works. I acted as a beautiful little aerial.
So this is what motivated my choice of a biggish core and couple all the
wires of the mains-lead together, and not as in a commercial mains filter
have the earth wire spit off.

But we will only see once the problem is resolved what the truth is going to
be, as usual.

Greetings

j.


On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Erik Christiansen
dva...@internode.on.netwrote:

 On 17.10.11 07:41, Jan de Kruyf wrote:
  so get hold of a biggish ferrite or even better powder ring core and
  loop the mains cable through as many times as will fit.

 If the EMI is exclusively high frequency, then that'll probably work
 well enough. But stuffing enough turns of the mains cable into a
 humungous toroid is perhaps doing it the hard way. A 6A,120/250v
 shielded common-mode balanced line filter is almost small enough to
 close my fist around, bolts neatly in the equipment enclosure, and has
 convenient terminals. (Unfortunately I don't know what they cost, since
 my junk box supplies mine.)

  Alternatively there might be inductive coupling between the inductor
  in the light and the transformer in the UPS. that should be curable by
  moving the UPS as far away as possible from the light. Interference
  goes down relating to the square of the distance.

 True, but the problem vanished when the mains input to the UPS was
 disconnected. That pretty much excludes such inductive coupling, since
 it would be unchanged by that.

  But at this moment I am putting my bets on the copper wire.

 It's odds-on, after the last test.

 Erik

 --
 Never worry about theory as long as the machinery does what it's
 supposed to do.
   - Robert A. Heinlein



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Re: [Emc-users] DIY line filters [Was: OT EMC on control signal]

[Jan de Kruyf]

Erik,
here is link for your reference that illustrates the whole concept quite
neatly. If you look at the 2 stage filter in the middle picture you will see
a common-mode core combined with 2 seperate cores, to filter out 2 different
kinds of interference.
Also the matter of proper wiring is illustrated in the bottom pic.

http://www.emcuk.co.uk/awareness/Pages/MitigationTechniques/Design/Filtering.htm

Regards,

j.


On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:21 AM, Erik Christiansen
dva...@internode.on.netwrote:

 On 16.10.11 10:50, Kirk Wallace wrote:
  I happened to have the filter left over from another project, and got to
  thinking, in a pinch, it would be nice to be able to make one up from
  typical junk bin parts. If anyone can shed light on this, I'd appreciate
  it. I noticed some small filters (power cord socket / switch / filter
  unit) on some junk telecomm equipment I have, that may be a good source
  for filters too. (Also old PC power supplies?)

 Those in my junkbox, including one built into an IEC mains socket, have
 a full circuit diagram on one side. Before I forget, the capacitors
 connected across the line must be approved for the role, i.e. be proper
 X or Y denominated capacitors. (I think the category includes
 self-healing dielectric, but definitely indicates they're low
 flammability, and won't spontaneously exude their guts like a non-X
 capacitor I found in this role, in some cheap equipment. Fortunately it
 didn't catch fire, but the fumes corroded adjacent exposed metal. I
 wouldn't want to breathe that.)

 The core of the filter is usually a common-mode choke, i.e. two
 windings on one ferrite core. We've probably all seen them on the input
 or output of a SMPS, with two diametrically opposite quadrants of the
 core carrying maybe a dozen turns of fairly thick wire. (At low voltage
 anyway.) An X capacitor across the inductor ends connected to line
 provides the input leg of what is a balanced pi filter, and two Y
 capacitors are connected in series across the load ends of the
 inductors. A resistor across the load discharges all the capacitors, so
 you don't suddenly drop the thing on your foot, after accidentally
 touching the input or output leads.

 OK, those capacitors are a bit fat, but here's an ascii art depiction:

 *
 @@@-
  | |  |
  |  XXX| --- Y
  |  X  % ---
  LINE   ___ --- X   X Common   % R|___ Earth LOAD
   | --- X Core.%  |
   |  |  X  % --- Y
Earth |  XXX| ---
  | |  |
 @@@-
   *

 The coils are connected straight through, but counterwound, i.e. one
 side is CW, the other CCW wound, in the several I've just fished out of
 the junkbox, so I'd draw the phasing dots as above. That seems
 consistent with the intended rejection of common-mode signals, so I
 think I have that right.

 The 6ET1 6A,120/250v 50-60Hz line filter in front of me uses:

   L = 18.5 mH  (Per leg, I figure)
   X = 47 uF(X2 type)
   Y = 4 nF (Y type), 2 off
   R = 330 kOhms

 That's about all I can think of, off the top of my head. It should be
 nearly enough to start with. The commercial jobs are built in a
 shielding enclosure, but the open ones on SMPSs do a lot of good too.

 You could just use separate inductors, and coils wound on straight
 ferrite rods have also been used, but they're, not as good.

 Erik

 --
 In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap,
 and much more difficult to find.  - Terry Pratchett



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Re: [Emc-users] OT EMC on control signal

[Jan de Kruyf]

Andy,
It is a very difficult situation to judge from 6000km away.
But my first sort of gutfeel would be to think that the noise enters the
system trough the power connection.
Have you got the drives' supply from the lighting circuit? (220V?) is it
possible to move it with a long extention to a completely different supply
circuit? Just for a test.

May be give some more details and a global drawing of your setup.
Oh and by the way is your earthing system good and continuous?

cheers

j.


On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Andy Ibbotson andyi_w...@btinternet.comwrote:

 Hi
 I have my BF30 up and running EMC2 but I'm having problems with EMC noise.
  When I switch on the shop fluorescent lights they cause the motors to
 jump anyone got any advice re. shielding.  All signal cable screens are
 grounded to the 7i43 (PC) ground.  Link to Control box from PC is by a 1m
 bought 25Dsub cable.  Motor power wires are 4core screened cables, screens
 are at PSU ground (isolated from Geckos and PC).  Any help or  advice will
 be appreciated.

 Machine is in the  UK.
 Regards
 Andy

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Re: [Emc-users] OT EMC on control signal

[Jan de Kruyf]

Ok,
so the principle is: What goes in must come out.
It goes in via the mains cable, but at the moment it comes out into thin air
around the signal cable (or whatever it is) that picks up / radiates the
noise.
(It is the same really for this excersize)
So whatabout forcing the interference to come out the same way it came in:
i.e. the mains cable.
We do that by forcing the sum of the currents in the L+N+E to be equal at
all times, so get hold of a biggish ferrite or even better powder ring core
and
loop the mains cable through as many times as will fit.

Alternativily there might be inductive coupling between the inductor in the
light and the transformer in the UPS. that should be curable by moving the
UPS as far away as possible from the light. Interference goes down relating
to the square of the distance.

But at this moment I am putting my bets on the copper wire.

Have fun

j.


On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 10:02 PM, Andy Ibbotson
andyi_w...@btinternet.comwrote:

 Follow up...

 Disconnected the UPS from the 240V mains and system is not affected by
 lights starting.  Also, when reconnected the only thing that make the
 motors
 jump are the lights even the compressor is ok - ignore my comment above.
 --
 From: Andy Ibbotson andyi_w...@btinternet.com
 Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:32 PM
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT EMC on control signal

  Wow! thanks for all your help! BF30 build thread is here
 
  Gene,
  Shop lights are in metal cases and worst light does have two goes at
  coming on.  Machine jumps even with lights that start first time though.
 
  Regarding the PSU and 7i43 I have to admit that I'm not sure which ground
  to connect where :-o
  At present the 7i43, BoB and signal side of the Geckos are powered by the
  PC PSU, i.e. 5V and GND.
 
  The power side of the system (42V, 12A or so) comes from a transformer,
  bridge rect and a big capacitor (100ms soft start on trans), the 0V from
  the transformer is not connected to either earth (mains 240V) or GND from
  the PC.
 
  Mains earth is connected to the controller chassis and controller and PC
  are physically separate.
 
  The power transformer 0V is connected to the power side of the Geckos and
  to the motor cable screens.
 
  Karl,
  Good idea I'll give it a try.
 
  Peter,
  Unfortunately the Gecko's are 201's and have common ground, 201V can be
  referenced to 0V or better 5V.
 
  Kirk,
  This looks like a very similar problem, I also note that the motors jump
  when I switch  on my compressor but are ok when the much lower power
 flood
  coolant motor is  switched on I have a line filter somewhere, I'll give
 it
  a try.
 
  Regards
  Andy
 
 
 
 
  --
  From: gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com
  Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 4:26 PM
  To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT EMC on control signal
 
  On Sunday, October 16, 2011 11:13:08 AM Andy Ibbotson did opine:
 
  Hi
  I have my BF30 up and running EMC2 but I'm having problems with EMC
  noise.  When I switch on the shop fluorescent lights they cause the
  motors to jump anyone got any advice re. shielding.  All signal cable
  screens are grounded to the 7i43 (PC) ground.  Link to Control box from
  PC is by a 1m bought 25Dsub cable.  Motor power wires are 4core
  screened cables, screens are at PSU ground (isolated from Geckos and
  PC).  Any help or  advice will be appreciated.
 
  Are the shop lights sheet metal parts well grounded?
 
  Or said another way, is the rapid start a bit slow?  If a slow starter,
  does it start instantly when you reach up and touch the lamp?  All
  symptoms
  of poorly grounded fixtures.
 
  If not well grounded, their startup voltages could possibly radiate.
  Most
  of those depend on a well grounded housing in order to start rapidly,
 and
  is often the reason the lamps are fitted so close to the sheet metal.
  Stand them out another cm from the sheet metal and that ballast may not
  be
  able to start them.
 
  That PSU ground should probably be tied at the 7i43 ground, if not that
  could make an entry point for noise.
 
  Machine is in the  UK.
  Regards
  Andy
 
  Cheers, Gene
  --
  There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
  -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
  dark Culus: Building a five-meter-high replica of the Empire State
Building with paperclips is impressive.  Doing it blindfolded is
eleet.
 
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  definitive record of customers, application performance, security
  threats, fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes
  sense of it. Business sense. IT sense. Common sense.
  

Re: [Emc-users] all those who thirst knowledge.

[Jan de Kruyf]

It was my pleasure!

j.


On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Frank Tkalcevic 
fr...@franksworkshop.com.au wrote:

 Thank you,  that was a great way to tune.

 I used halcmd from a terminal prompt to tweak the pid parameters.  Having
 the command line history is very convenient.

 I had to replace the o10 while [1] with o10 repeat [100].  Axis doesn't
 like infinite loops!

  -Original Message-
  From: s...@highlab.com [mailto:s...@highlab.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, 12 October 2011 1:53 AM
  To: andy pugh; Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] all those who thirst knowledge.
 
  Chris taught me to tune emc2 axes with motion provided by gcode.
 
  Set your following error sloppy enough to let your machine run untuned,
 but
  tight enough that if it runs away emc will stop it.  Run axis (or your
 gui of
  choice), run halcmd (for interactively setting pid gains), run halscope
 (for
  getting a detailed look at pid and joint behavior), and finally run this
 program:
 
  g91  ; incremental motion
  o10 while [1]
  g0 x1   ; go an inch right
  g4 p1  ; pause for a sec
  g0 x-1 ; go an inch left
  g4 p1  ; pause for a sec
  o10 endwhile
  m2
 
 
 
  - Reply message -
  From: andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com
  Date: Tue, Oct 11, 2011 04:43
  Subject: [Emc-users] all those who thirst knowledge.
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-
  us...@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  On 11 October 2011 07:15, Frank Tkalcevic fr...@franksworkshop.com.au
  wrote:
   I opened the first pdf and it has an article on pid tuning.  It
   suggests applying a square wave command and tuning from that.  How
   hard is it to generate a square wave in emc?  Will this require hal
   trickery or can it be done with GCode?
 
  It depends on where you want to generate the square wave, but you could
  use either siggen (or just a 50% pwmgen) or a G-code loop driving an
  analogue output.
 
  --
  atp
  Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise
  men
 
 
 --
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  definitive record of customers, application performance, security
 threats,
  fraudulent activity and more. Splunk takes this data and makes sense of
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Re: [Emc-users] Well, that's a pain.

[Jan de Kruyf]

For what its worth, this is googles idea of your problem
http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=www.linuxcnc.org

maybe you need an old lady detector in your company??

j.


Safe Browsing*Diagnostic page for* www.linuxcnc.org

*What is the current listing status for www.linuxcnc.org?*

This site is not currently listed as suspicious.

*What happened when Google visited this site?*

Of the 2 pages we tested on the site over the past 90 days, 0 page(s)
resulted in malicious software being downloaded and installed without user
consent. The last time Google visited this site was on 2011-08-27, and
suspicious content was never found on this site within the past 90 days.

This site was hosted on 1 network(s) including AS26347
(DREAMHOST)http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=AS:26347
.

*Has this site acted as an intermediary resulting in further distribution of
malware?*

Over the past 90 days, www.linuxcnc.org did not appear to function as an
intermediary for the infection of any sites.

*Has this site hosted malware?*

No, this site has not hosted malicious software over the past 90 days.

*Next steps:*

   - Return to the previous
page.http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=www.linuxcnc.org#
   - If you are the owner of this web site, you can request a review of your
   site using Google Webmaster Toolshttp://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/.
   More information about the review process is available in Google's Webmaster
   Help 
Centerhttp://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=45432
   .







On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 11:10 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 No more checking the forums / docs pages from work for me any more:

 Based on your corporate access policies, this web site (
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/ ) has been blocked because it has been
 determined to be a security threat to your computer or the corporate
 network. This web site has been associated with malware/spyware.

 If you have questions, please contact your corporate network
 administrator and provide the codes shown below.


 
 Notification codes:  (1, MALWARE_GENERAL, BLOCK-MALWARE, , 0x3409b6c0,
 1318410577.130, QQAAJv8ACP8AAABAAA==,
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/) 

 --
 atp
 Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise
 men


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Re: [Emc-users] all those who thirst knowledge.

[Jan de Kruyf]

Frank,
I have a little thing called a battery-box, that I build years ago (exept it
has not got a battery, it just hooks in the +-15V of the drive).
In any case its sole purpose is to generate a square wave with a
sufficiently slow period that the table moves while I can observe the result
on an oscilloscope. When I do not have that box with me I try to observe the
steps of the A/D converter, but only on a well proportioned system do I
manage to do the tuning properly. When the ration of the motor inertia and
the reflected load inertia is way out, I do not manage at all.

The only thing I missed in the write-up was how to dimention the frequency
compensation in current converter part of the drive, but thats normally not
adjustable in any case. You just choose a drive that is designed to work
with motors of a similar armature inductance.

In any case on the EMC side I am not knowledgable enough to answer your
question. I have just releated my experience.
I do suggest you try out the simulation program, just to get a feel for the
issue at hand.

j.


On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Frank Tkalcevic 
fr...@franksworkshop.com.au wrote:

 I opened the first pdf and it has an article on pid tuning.  It suggests
 applying a square wave command and tuning from that.  How hard is it to
 generate a square wave in emc?  Will this require hal trickery or can it be
 done with GCode?


  -Original Message-
  From: Jan de Kruyf [mailto:jan.de.kr...@gmail.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, 11 October 2011 4:02 AM
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  Subject: [Emc-users] all those who thirst knowledge.
 
  http://irtfweb.ifa.hawaii.edu/~tcs3/tcs3/0405_Servo_review/onaka_docs/
 
  http://www.qxdesign.com/DownloadArea.htm
 
  enjoy
 
  j.
 

 
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Re: [Emc-users] all those who thirst knowledge.

[Jan de Kruyf]

It seems to me that an external square signal might cause an overly
aggressive acceleration.

Only when you want to impress the neighbours with a shaking building . . .

A few millivolt of signal at about 50 Hz or so, depending on the bandwidth
of the system, is enough.
Just check at a slightly higher value when you think you are done, if there
is backlash the frequency response might change at the higher input value.

Having said all that: I have never driven an amp into current saturation
yet. In fact if you are scared turn the max current down a bit.
Once you drive the amp into saturation though, the frequency response will
be badly affected.


j.


On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Kirk Wallace
kwall...@wallacecompany.comwrote:

 On Tue, 2011-10-11 at 12:41 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:
  Frank Tkalcevic wrote:
   I opened the first pdf and it has an article on pid tuning.  It
 suggests
   applying a square wave command and tuning from that.  How hard is it to
   generate a square wave in emc?  Will this require hal trickery or can
 it be
   done with GCode?
  
  Yes, there is a hal component called siggen that can produce sine and
  square waves.

 It seems to me that an external square signal might cause an overly
 aggressive acceleration. I did my tunning with a g-code 1 inch dance or
 shuffle, seemed to work okay.

 --
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA



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[Emc-users] all those who thirst knowledge.

[Jan de Kruyf]

http://irtfweb.ifa.hawaii.edu/~tcs3/tcs3/0405_Servo_review/onaka_docs/

http://www.qxdesign.com/DownloadArea.htm

enjoy

j.
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Re: [Emc-users] Simple DC motor controller

[Jan de Kruyf]

If you look here at the pic you will see that the pic is a current
controller schematic, it might work but I guess you need to add a speed
differential - currentReference opamp circuit. And also I do not spot the
motor inductance compensation circuit, so the current might hunt a bit and
heat up the motor if you are unlucky.

So all in all it gets complicated (cant be built with a torque wrench)

http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMD18200.html#Overview

I googled a bit and I found
this link:
http://www.wegatech.com/motor_controller.html

you might be lucky.

it came from this page:
http://www.opencircuits.com/Motor_driver
there is lots of stuff there. Just page through there might be more.


j.

On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 9:25 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6 October 2011 02:32, noel noel.ro...@comcast.net wrote:
  LMD18200

 That appears to need PWM/DIR not +/-10V, or am I missing something?

 --
 atp
 Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise
 men


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Re: [Emc-users] Simple DC motor controller

[Jan de Kruyf]

How is your solder iron:

L292 SWITCH MODE DRIVER FOR DC MOTORS / 2A / 36V

My local supplier still has them listed. It is basically a torque
controller, by it self. You need to put another opamp in front to get speed
control.

Works very well

j.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 3:34 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 5 October 2011 14:27, sam sokolik sa...@empirescreen.com wrote:

 
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Advanced-Motion-Controls-Brush-Type-PWM-Servo-Amplifier-/170692654137?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item27be133439

 Close, but this needs to be something that we can buy new, and in
 small quantities. (I should perhaps have said that this is for an
 application at work)


 --
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 Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise
 men


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Re: [Emc-users] Simple DC motor controller

[Jan de Kruyf]

So limit the input to your speed- amp to the equivalent of 12 V back-emf.
You might need some headroom in any case to get your dynamics right.

The magnets will only demagnetize at a certain current, that this thing will
never give you anyway, unless its broken and then also at 12 V it might
stuff them if the rotor is locked.

j.


On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 4:08 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 5 October 2011 14:59, Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com wrote:

  L292 SWITCH MODE DRIVER FOR DC MOTORS / 2A / 36V

 Almost perfect, but 18V minimum supply voltage..

 --
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 men


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Kollmorgen ServoStar 601 servo drive

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hallo Viesturs,
what on earth is wrong with them. Have you got the tuning software from
Kollmorgen for these things?

I just fixed a setup with 5 of these animals on a SERCOS loop (and another 4
Indramats) They worked very well once I had the
Sercos part nailed.
Dont know if customer would be interested to keep spares. Prob to much
money.

j.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:52 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hello, gentlemen!

 I would like to sell 4 pieces of Kollmorgen ServoStar 601 servo drives.
 Currently they are in my waterjet machine, but I would like to change
 them, because they are too complicated for the task and I finally am
 out of patience trying to get them right.
 Please let me know, if anyone is interested in them or if You know
 somebody, who might be interested in them.
 Thanks in advance!

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Kollmorgen ServoStar 601 servo drive

[Jan de Kruyf]

What is the interface? Modbus? SERCOOS?

j.

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2011/9/27 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
  Hallo Viesturs,
  what on earth is wrong with them. Have you got the tuning software from
  Kollmorgen for these things?

 Yes, I have the Drive.exe; BTW it runs very nicely in Wine.

 Well, they are very nice servo drives...   when they are working. I am
 having difficulties with that.
 Now I have 2 drives working and 2 drives are misbehaving:
 1) I purchased spare servo drive on eBay. When I received it, it
 turned out that communication with PC is not working. In early spring
 I sent it to TGDrives to fix that. They fixed it (at least they say
 that they changed communications processor). Now I put the drive in
 machine, tried to configure it, but Drive application did not find it,
 so communication still not working. But it should, since it has not
 been used since I received it from CZ;
 2) the other misbehaving drive is my usual case -  I get F25
 (commutation error) error, I swap 2 servo drives to determine, if the
 problem is in drive (it goes together with drive) or in cables/motors
 (should appear also on swapped drive). The problem turns out to be in
 servo drive, so I send it to TGDrives, they _do not_ find the problem,
 I pay 40EUR diagnostics fee, they send the drive back and it works.
 After some time some other of the three drives shows F25, I send it to
 TGDrives, they find nothing, send it back and the drive works.

 I have no idea, what is the cause for these F25 errors, maybe I have bad
 aura.

 Conclusion - those drives are great, when they are working.
 Unfortunately they have so much functionality inside, that there are
 so many things that can break/cause error. Since EMC needs almost
 nothing of that functionality, I thought that changing them to some
 simpler servo drive, like 8i20, would be the way to go. I have spent
 more than a year trying to get that machine up and running. I thought
 that I am very close to finish with all the work on mechanics and
 electronics, but now the servo issue is messing everything up.
 Probably I am simply lacking skill and experience with such a
 complicated electronics, I do not know, that is why I would like to go
 with something simplier.

  I just fixed a setup with 5 of these animals on a SERCOS loop (and
 another 4
  Indramats) They worked very well once I had the
  Sercos part nailed.
  Dont know if customer would be interested to keep spares. Prob to much
  money.

 My offer is 1000EUR for all four of them. I think that 250EUR/piece is
 very cheap, compared to eBay prices.
 For 300EUR/piece I can send all of them to TGDrives for diagnostics so
 that they can give their statement, if there is something to be fixed
 or if the drives are fine. That way the buyer would get qualified
 opinion from 3rd party about the condition of the drives.
 If You purchase them for 300EUR/piece, I do not care, for what price
 would You sell them to Your customer :))

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Kollmorgen ServoStar 601 servo drive

[Jan de Kruyf]

What year are they? and what software version?

(sorry I am so insistent but I am also trying to tie my experiences into the
whole story)

j.

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 I am using them with analog signal.
 There are no add-in interface cards.

 Viesturs

 2011/9/27 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
  What is the interface? Modbus? SERCOOS?
 
  j.
 
  On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Viesturs Lācis 
 viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:
 
  2011/9/27 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
   Hallo Viesturs,
   what on earth is wrong with them. Have you got the tuning software
 from
   Kollmorgen for these things?
 
  Yes, I have the Drive.exe; BTW it runs very nicely in Wine.
 
  Well, they are very nice servo drives...   when they are working. I am
  having difficulties with that.
  Now I have 2 drives working and 2 drives are misbehaving:
  1) I purchased spare servo drive on eBay. When I received it, it
  turned out that communication with PC is not working. In early spring
  I sent it to TGDrives to fix that. They fixed it (at least they say
  that they changed communications processor). Now I put the drive in
  machine, tried to configure it, but Drive application did not find it,
  so communication still not working. But it should, since it has not
  been used since I received it from CZ;
  2) the other misbehaving drive is my usual case -  I get F25
  (commutation error) error, I swap 2 servo drives to determine, if the
  problem is in drive (it goes together with drive) or in cables/motors
  (should appear also on swapped drive). The problem turns out to be in
  servo drive, so I send it to TGDrives, they _do not_ find the problem,
  I pay 40EUR diagnostics fee, they send the drive back and it works.
  After some time some other of the three drives shows F25, I send it to
  TGDrives, they find nothing, send it back and the drive works.
 
  I have no idea, what is the cause for these F25 errors, maybe I have bad
  aura.
 
  Conclusion - those drives are great, when they are working.
  Unfortunately they have so much functionality inside, that there are
  so many things that can break/cause error. Since EMC needs almost
  nothing of that functionality, I thought that changing them to some
  simpler servo drive, like 8i20, would be the way to go. I have spent
  more than a year trying to get that machine up and running. I thought
  that I am very close to finish with all the work on mechanics and
  electronics, but now the servo issue is messing everything up.
  Probably I am simply lacking skill and experience with such a
  complicated electronics, I do not know, that is why I would like to go
  with something simplier.
 
   I just fixed a setup with 5 of these animals on a SERCOS loop (and
  another 4
   Indramats) They worked very well once I had the
   Sercos part nailed.
   Dont know if customer would be interested to keep spares. Prob to much
   money.
 
  My offer is 1000EUR for all four of them. I think that 250EUR/piece is
  very cheap, compared to eBay prices.
  For 300EUR/piece I can send all of them to TGDrives for diagnostics so
  that they can give their statement, if there is something to be fixed
  or if the drives are fine. That way the buyer would get qualified
  opinion from 3rd party about the condition of the drives.
  If You purchase them for 300EUR/piece, I do not care, for what price
  would You sell them to Your customer :))
 
  Viesturs
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: Kollmorgen ServoStar 601 servo drive

[Jan de Kruyf]

I dont think this is in the setup.
I think I just tasted some bitter experience.

Let me think this thing over, speak to customer,read my notes and speak a
bit later.
There are wierd similarities with the setup I just fixed. Which I blamed on
the computer supplier,
but maybe I just have constructed a jury-rig for customer at a great price
and not repaired the real problem.

(Not to say of course that jury-rigs dont have their place and indeed are
very valuable, specially for this customer, snigger)

Good night all,

j.



On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:44 PM, Kirk Wallace
kwall...@wallacecompany.comwrote:

 On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 18:54 +0300, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
  2011/9/27 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com:
   On Tue, 2011-09-27 at 18:30 +0300, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
   I am using them with analog signal.
   There are no add-in interface cards.
  
   Viesturs
  
   2011/9/27 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
What is the interface? Modbus? SERCOOS?
  
   Are they these?
   http://www.kollmorgen.com/uploadedfiles/Files/Document/sr601_e.pdf
 
  Yes, they are these exact drives.

 I have very limited experience with industrial drives and these are not
 like any drive I have played with.

 Motion feed back from the motor seems to be a resolver and/or
 sine/cosine encoder (which I thought was a resolver) instead of Hall
 sensors, quadrature rotary or absolute rotary of some sort (see page
 47). Makes me think the target motors are induction motors such as for a
 spindle or speed control application. It has two analog inputs, one for
 speed and another for torque, I'm used to one or the other. The drive
 seems to have VFD like digital inputs for Forward and Reverse. There
 seems to be a step/dir input, either through the RS232 PC port or SSI
 port. The PC connection seems simple enough, a simple RS232 three wire,
 Rx, Tx and Ground or CAN.

 What kind of motors and application is this for?

 (Now the link to the manual seems to be broken.)

 --
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA



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Re: [Emc-users] OT ? Kalman Filter

[Jan de Kruyf]

I was thinking along those lines, yes.

jan.

On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote:

 I tried a first and second order lag filter and I didn't like the
 results..  I threw a simple averaging filter at it and it looks
 intuitively good and it is super simple.

 Hopefully good enough.

 We will see if the boat agrees.  :-)

 The pursuit of some fuzzy logic might make sense if the averaging filter
 is inadequate by itself.
 Perhaps some fuzzy logic altering the averaging filter on the fly.

 Dave

 On 8/23/2011 3:47 PM, Jan de Kruyf wrote:
  Why all so terribly deterministic.
  Throw some fuzzi logic at it.
  Very good for changing a slowly changing error.
 
  jan.
 
  On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Davee...@dc9.tzo.com  wrote:
 
 
  I know... but they have a C compiler for those boards...  I don't have
  that luxury..   maybe in the next iteration if this works out.
 
  Thanks,
 
  Dave
 
  On 8/22/2011 12:16 PM, Michael Haberler wrote:
 
  the folks building quadrocopters use these filters a lot - on quite
 
  limited CPU's
 
  -m
 
  Am 22.08.2011 um 15:24 schrieb Dave:
 
 
 
  Keith,
 
  The Kalman filter is probably too difficult to calculate on the
  controller I am using (a micro PLC with floating point math) , so I am
  going to do a first and perhaps a second order lag filter first and
 see
  what happens.
  If the lag filters are in-effective then I will chase a Kalman filter
  solution.   I am going to try out your example anyway since it sounds
  really interesting. :)
 
  Thanks,
 
  Dave
 
  On 8/21/2011 3:25 PM, Keith Curtis wrote:
 
 
  Hi Dave,
 
  I have a tiny bit of experience with Kalman filtering for state
  estimation, and attached a toy example that might help get you
  started. I have written it to work with Octave which is open source
 so
  you can install it if you don't already have it.   The idea as I
  understand it is that you have a model of how the state updates, like
  Newton's laws.  You predict what you'll measure, compare that to your
  actual measurement and the apply the Kalman gain matrix K to the
  difference to update your estimate of the state.
 
  You can run the example in Octave with
 
  octave:1kalman_example
 
  In the example, I have an object moving in a parabolic arc, and in a
  commeted-out line, an object moving in a straight line.  The
  measurements that are the input the filter are stored in y. You can
  plot the measurements out with
 
  plot(y(1,:), y(2,:), 'o')
 
  At the end of the script the estimate state positions are plotted
 with
 
  plot(x_hat_plus(1,:), x_hat_plus(2,:), 'o')
 
 
  The tricky parts seem to be what sort values to put in the initial P,
  Q, and R covariance matrices.
 
  Hope this helps.
 
 
  Cheers,
  Keith
 
  On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 12:08 PM,kth.cur...@yahoo.comwrote:
 
 
 
  -- Forwarded message --
  Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 16:18:51 -0400
  From: Davee...@dc9.tzo.com
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Subject: [Emc-users] OT ? Kalman Filter
 
 
  I have an application that I believe could greatly benefit from a
 
  Kalman
 
  Filter.Kalman filters are oftentimes used for guidance systems
 and
  that is what I need it for - except that I am guiding a boat!
  However the same filter I understand can also be used to predict
  (estimate) velocity and position based upon what would normally be
  considered incomplete information.  One example I heard what that a
  Kalman filter can
  be used to predict velocity when used with low count encoders - as
 in
  low count encoders used on servo motors.
 
  If you do a look up of Kalman filter on Youtube you can get an
 idea
 
 



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Re: [Emc-users] OT ? Kalman Filter

[Jan de Kruyf]

Why all so terribly deterministic.
Throw some fuzzi logic at it.
Very good for changing a slowly changing error.

jan.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2011 at 10:16 PM, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote:

 I know... but they have a C compiler for those boards...  I don't have
 that luxury..   maybe in the next iteration if this works out.

 Thanks,

 Dave

 On 8/22/2011 12:16 PM, Michael Haberler wrote:
  the folks building quadrocopters use these filters a lot - on quite
 limited CPU's
  -m
 
  Am 22.08.2011 um 15:24 schrieb Dave:
 
 
  Keith,
 
  The Kalman filter is probably too difficult to calculate on the
  controller I am using (a micro PLC with floating point math) , so I am
  going to do a first and perhaps a second order lag filter first and see
  what happens.
  If the lag filters are in-effective then I will chase a Kalman filter
  solution.   I am going to try out your example anyway since it sounds
  really interesting. :)
 
  Thanks,
 
  Dave
 
  On 8/21/2011 3:25 PM, Keith Curtis wrote:
 
  Hi Dave,
 
  I have a tiny bit of experience with Kalman filtering for state
  estimation, and attached a toy example that might help get you
  started. I have written it to work with Octave which is open source so
  you can install it if you don't already have it.   The idea as I
  understand it is that you have a model of how the state updates, like
  Newton's laws.  You predict what you'll measure, compare that to your
  actual measurement and the apply the Kalman gain matrix K to the
  difference to update your estimate of the state.
 
  You can run the example in Octave with
 
  octave:1   kalman_example
 
  In the example, I have an object moving in a parabolic arc, and in a
  commeted-out line, an object moving in a straight line.  The
  measurements that are the input the filter are stored in y. You can
  plot the measurements out with
 
  plot(y(1,:), y(2,:), 'o')
 
  At the end of the script the estimate state positions are plotted with
 
  plot(x_hat_plus(1,:), x_hat_plus(2,:), 'o')
 
 
  The tricky parts seem to be what sort values to put in the initial P,
  Q, and R covariance matrices.
 
  Hope this helps.
 
 
  Cheers,
  Keith
 
  On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 12:08 PM,kth.cur...@yahoo.com   wrote:
 
 
  -- Forwarded message --
  Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 16:18:51 -0400
  From: Davee...@dc9.tzo.com
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
 emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  Subject: [Emc-users] OT ? Kalman Filter
 
 
  I have an application that I believe could greatly benefit from a
 Kalman
  Filter.Kalman filters are oftentimes used for guidance systems and
  that is what I need it for - except that I am guiding a boat!
  However the same filter I understand can also be used to predict
  (estimate) velocity and position based upon what would normally be
  considered incomplete information.  One example I heard what that a
  Kalman filter can
  be used to predict velocity when used with low count encoders - as in
  low count encoders used on servo motors.
 
  If you do a look up of Kalman filter on Youtube you can get an idea
 of
  their flexibility.
 
  Does anyone have any experience with Kalman filters?I have
 searched
  the web for a simple explanation and John Crenshaw of embedded
 magazine
  started a series of articles in the March 2011 edition  (sort of a
  Kalman filter for dummies) but he stopped short of publishing the
 second
  article which gets into the actual filter software explanation.
 
  I found a primer on the web that I downloaded.  It is a PDF document
  that is 189 pages long!
 
  Where do I start with this??
 
  I get the feeling that if I just grab some source code and implement
  something it won't work since the filter has to be setup to allow
 the
  software to properly predict or estimate a value.
 
  Thanks,
 
  Dave
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Simodrive 611

[Jan de Kruyf]

The whole thing looks high current related so:
can you set the spindle acceleration down in the parameters of the control?

what % of max. current does the spindle draw at 6000rpm?

Way-out idea:
I once had a rotten circuit breaker in the main board arcing on high
current.
The Lathe caused it, but it buggered the brains of the mill!

Enjoy,

jan.



On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:29 PM, John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com wrote:

 I have a BP Discovery 308 with Simodrive 611 drives for the axis and
 spindle. There seems to be a broader range of drive/motor guys that
 follow the mailing list... so I'm posting the question here.

 My symptom is when I try and accellerate the spindle from 0 to 2400 rpm
 in one step the drive faults out with a generic fault. Sometimes when
 running the mill at 6000 RPM for a while (so good and warm) a Rapid Z up
 will give the same fault. I can ramp up to 6000 RPM by starting at 2000
 RPM using 100 RPM increments with a G4 of 0.1 between.

 I've opened up the power supply section and replaced all the caps
 recently and that did not have any effect on the symptom.

 Would there be any reason to dig into the spindle and try and check the
 brushes?

 Thanks
 John


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit manual

[Jan de Kruyf]

Since the machine was produced in USSR, I am pretty sure that the
factory has been closed years ago.

In that case see if the i.c.'s used are still available in the open market.
Otherwise replace.

Years ago I fixed some Eastern German stuff. Boy what a battle. Redesigned
the section of the circuit where the problem was, to take western ic's.

Enjoy yourself,

j.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2011/8/1 robert rob...@innovative-rc.com:
  Retro on a CNC mill
 
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,559/lang,english/
 
  and
  CNC Lathe, hardinge
 
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/catid,30/id,12060/lang,english/

 Thank You for the links! The second link seems to be incorrect - it
 leads to thread about a router and Keling motor kit.

  if not try to find out what drives they are and motors and find if who
  made them are still around to get any info or if the machine builder is
  still around they can be helpfull also.

 Since the machine was produced in USSR, I am pretty sure that the
 factory has been closed years ago.

 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit manual

[Jan de Kruyf]

Viesturs,
Motors:
Take them off and clean out.
then feed the motor with 24V 2amp transformer through a bridge rectifier to
see how it runs
Monitor the current with oscilloscoop (0.1ohm resistor) to see there are no
funnies in the winding.
monitor the tacho with O. to see there are no broken segments in the
commutator.

While the motor is off check that the ballscrews/slides are in good nick.
ROUGHNESS is DIRT
in the nut. Clean out. Check backlash, for a cheap customer fill the space
between the 2 halves of the nut to take up the backlash, and adjust the
thrust-bearings or replace.. For good customer tell him to buy new.

Check slide lubrication -- very important--

For gearbox you basically translate the digital codes that represent 0 -
full speed into 2 or 3 ranges of 0 - fullspeed with gear info. In the old
days we used an eprom for that but I seem to think it has something on the
HAL layer for that in EMC.

You basically pulse the gear until it snaps into place, when it does not
want to go because it is standing on teeths edge you must pulse the spindle
motor with a reasonable low voltage from the drive (or from a transformer if
it is an AC mains spindlemotor).

Toolchanger:
check what was there. Basically there are 2 methods, the simple one, which I
recommend if you have never done one, is the toolchange command presents a
toolchanger SOCKET to the spindle on M6, regardless of the tool in the
socket. So its the operators responsebility to have the right tool in the
right socket.

The nasty way is to have a table in the computer that remembers which tool
is in what socket and the right tool is always presented to the spindle on
M6, no matter in which socket it is. And the tool taken out of the spindle
gets dumped in whatever socket is near, because the table remembers anyway.

I found this way rather involved when there is a computer-failure and the
table is confused. You normally get to take all the tools out of the tc and
set the whole thing up from scratch.

j.

On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 2011/7/28 Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com:
  If it still runs, study the machine with the help of the operator if
  possible. Operators are oftentimes a great source of information. Plus
  if you get along with them well,
  they will tend to help you out if they know that you want to help them
  out. Oftentimes they will reveal quirks in the machine that you will need
  to accommodate with the new system.

 I am not sure if it is possible to run the machine. They say that they
 were working with it and then something happened to control cabinet.
 Mechanically machine is said to be fine, but I doubt that I have a
 chance to test that.
 But the operator is there on site and since he is the only guy to work
 on their CNC machines, there is nobody else for him to talk about cnc
 stuff but me, so I feel that the task of making a contact is partially
 solved by default.

  The tool changer, gearbox and spindle will probably be your biggest
  challenges.

 Yes, that is what I suspect. I am now trying to get some information,
 how they are intended to be working. That toolchanger even looks
 complicated, so I expect to spend some time figuring out, how that
 stuff should work and then some more time actually getting it work
 that way.
 And then there is a spindle gearbox, which expects some signals from
 CNC controller to electrical valves to change the gears, so I will
 also have to spend some time reading about gearchange component to
 understand, if that can be used.

  Are you tying into the existing motor/drives?

 Yes, client says that motors and drives are fine. I hope so.
 BTW, what is best way to test that? Can I test it by removing motor
 from machine and applying some small voltage (for example, +1.5V from
 AAA battery) to input of servo drive?

 I suspect that I will spend some time, figuring out, how to tune
 feedback loop in those drives - they are analog drives with +/- 10V
 input from cnc controller and there are tachogenerators on motors to
 provide feedback to servo drives and resolvers to provide feedback to
 cnc controller. I have no idea, how they are meant to be tuned.

  Make sure you are clear on what they want and expect before you start
  taking it apart. Misunderstandings can be expensive.

 Do You mean - what do drives want in terms of input signal from CNC
 controller and motors and what type of mode - velocity mode or torque
 mode do they operate? Or do You mean what does client want? The first
 one definitely is easier to handle :))

  If you don't have a detailed agreement, write one up and have them sign
  it before any work starts.

 Thanks, actually I have had my lesson on working without a contract
 and outlined technical details and have experienced those
 we-never-told-you-something-like-this arguments.

  Also take lots of high resolution digital pictures before any work
 begins.

 Thanks, it did not come into my mind to save as much 

Re: [Emc-users] Undesired motion when stopping the program

[Jan de Kruyf]

make a bit-copy of your harddrive with 'partimage' first and expand the
image onto a new harddrive, they are cheap enough.
So you have the original and a copy to play with.

I just did it for a customer with a Beckhoff 'doze NT system with a small
problem. Works like a dream.
When the machine is idle for half an hour I quickly plug the play-drive in
and off we go.

j.


On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 4:44 PM, yann jautard brico...@free.fr wrote:



 Chris Radek wrote:
  Yes, it was found and fixed as a result of the testing that happened
  before 2.4.0.
 
 
 
 ok, in fact I wondered if this had been discovered, because it could be
 very dangerous with a milling machine.

 in my case, it's just boring, but not dangerous.


  I know I should upgrade EMC, but... it works well now.
 
 
  No it doesn't.
 
 
 well, obviously not, but it's only when I try to do unusual things, such
 as changing the whole program. But this is very unusual.
  So I can deal with it.

 In fact, I very well know I should upgrade, but I'm really afraid of the
 time it will need to have it running again. For now, I'm here at 7:30AM,
 and I go home at midnight, making a solar panel each 7 minutes... So if
 I can just upgrade EMC without re-installing the whole distro, I may
 try. But reinstalling the whole thing is not possible now. When this
 6-months-late work is over, I'll look into it.


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Re: [Emc-users] Hydraulic Position control with EMC2

[Jan de Kruyf]

there is always slipstick around the 0 point. But on a reasonable slow
system that does not seem to cause problems.

jan.

On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 3:53 AM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote:

 On Friday, May 20, 2011 09:46:59 PM Dave did opine:

  Does anyone have any experience in controlling servo grade hydraulic
  proportional valves with EMC2 for use in controlling a number of
  hydraulic cylinders?
 
  Does anyone know of a way to interface an SSI encoder into EMC2?
 
  I need to retrofit a large hydraulically controlled machine and the
  control has to support Gcode and be flexible.
 
  Regards,
 
  Dave
 
 Looks like Berkely Process Control has some papers on that which discuss
 the non-linearities of the spool valve being controlled as well as the
 diffs in the slave cylinder because the rod reduces the piston area on one
 side of the slave.

 Being aware of the non-linearities in those valves, the servo feedback will
 be complicated, but it does seem to be do-able.

 Has anyone managed to design a 5 port spool valve that truly has linear
 control?

 --
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Re: [Emc-users] Hydraulic Position control with EMC2

[Jan de Kruyf]

EMC will just work I would say. The servo factors will be a bit more tricky
to set up, since there is now no speed stabilizing loop around the motor /
drive.
I know old hydraulic copy mills quite well: they work just perfect if set up
properly. When not there is a bit of overshoot etc.

jan.

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 8:09 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Friday, 20 May 2011, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote:
 
  Does anyone have any experience in controlling servo grade hydraulic
  proportional valves with EMC2

 No, but I do have a bit of experience with servo-hydraulic machines,
 Specifically Schenck testing machines. I have occasionally thought
 that EMC2 would be on my list of things to try if I was still in that
 game.

 --
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 Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise
 men


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Re: [Emc-users] Hydraulic Position control with EMC2

[Jan de Kruyf]

just this:

CLEAN oil and CLEAN servo valves and a CLEAN system!!
the pilot holes are in the order of tenths of mm. I normally carry a
dentists root canal drill (the smallest) in my box.
So I can do emergency cleaning of the valves. The proper job is like $2000.-
US. That is a bit steep, specially if caused by
dirty old piping etc.

jan.

On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 8:09 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Friday, 20 May 2011, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote:
 
  Does anyone have any experience in controlling servo grade hydraulic
  proportional valves with EMC2

 No, but I do have a bit of experience with servo-hydraulic machines,
 Specifically Schenck testing machines. I have occasionally thought
 that EMC2 would be on my list of things to try if I was still in that
 game.

 --
 atp
 Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise
 men


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Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)

[Jan de Kruyf]

Chris,
was this a genuine posting or your personal spambot??

jan.


On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Chris Reynolds c_reynolds2...@yahoo.comwrote:

 It’s awesome!!! In no time you’ll rid of your problems!!!..
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Re: [Emc-users] Euler's Zyz angles in kinematics

[Jan de Kruyf]

google is your friend!

http://www.eetimes.com/design/embedded/4007177/Doing-C-code-unit-testing-on-a-shoestring-Part-1-The-basics-and-the-tools

Dont go all the way to town like this guy. Just think of a clever way of
feeding test data into your routine. Even write an extra routine that calls
the code under test in the same sourcefile. then compile your testcode with
a library link to the original code.

J.


On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 Could You, please, explain in more detail, where can I find out, what that
 is?

 Viesturs

 2011/5/15 Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com:
  Why dont you set up a quick testbed and some prinf's
  I am sure that is not going to take more than 20 lines of code.
 
  j.
 
  On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Viesturs Lācis 
 viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:
 
  Hello!
 
  I am trying to develop kinematics module and I think that Euler's Zyz
  angles would be very appropriate to represent joints' positions.
  And for that I want to use Zyz to Rpy convertion in forward kins and
  Rpy to Zyz convertion in inverse kins.
 
  The problem is that I cannot get that conversion working. Not even as
  a pure concept - I have set the formulas as simple as possible just to
  get it working, and then I would like to adjust them so that they
  match the machine.
 
  What I get in EMC is:
  1) module compiles without errors, so I suspect thatI have got the
  syntax correct.
  2) EMC starts up without errors;
  3) Homing of joints works ok (I am running a simulated machine without
  any particular model loaded);
  4) switching to world mode and I get crazy values in A, B and C;
  5) sometimes I can quickly switch back to joint mode, where joint values
  are ok;
  6) anyway, all the times immediately or after few seconds I get error
  taht some of rotary joints have exceeded negative limit. And then
  switching to joint mode shows joint value of something like
  -6,175e+278
 
  And that is it.
 
 
  Question to the audience - has anyone ever used Euler angles in EMC2
  and functions that convert them to rpy, rotation matrix or whatever
  else?
 
 
  Thanks in advance!
 
  Viesturs
 
 
  Here is the forward and inverse kinematics section from the module:
 
  int kinematicsForward(const double * joint,
   EmcPose * world,
   const KINEMATICS_FORWARD_FLAGS * fflags,
   KINEMATICS_INVERSE_FLAGS * iflags)
  {
 double a3, a4, a5;
 
 PmEulerZyz zyz;
 PmRpy rpy;
 
 /* convert joint angles to radians for sin() and cos() */
 
 a3 = joint[3] * ( PM_PI / 180 );
 a4 = joint[4] * ( PM_PI / 180 );
 a5 = joint[5] * ( PM_PI / 180 );
 
 /* assign joint values to Zyz angles */
 zyz.z = a3;
 zyz.y = a4;
 zyz.zp = a5;
 
 /* use Euler's Zyz to Rpy conversion*/
 pmZyzRpyConvert(zyz, rpy);
 
 world-tran.x = joint[0];
 world-tran.y = joint[1];
 world-tran.z = joint[2];
 world-a = rpy.r * 180 / PM_PI;
 world-b = rpy.p * 180 / PM_PI;
 world-c = rpy.y * 180 / PM_PI;
 
 return (0);
  }
 
  int kinematicsInverse(const EmcPose * world,
   double * joint,
   const KINEMATICS_INVERSE_FLAGS * iflags,
   KINEMATICS_FORWARD_FLAGS * fflags)
  {
 PmEulerZyz zyz;
 PmRpy rpy;
 
 rpy.r = world-a * ( PM_PI / 180 );
 rpy.p = world-b * ( PM_PI / 180 );
 rpy.y = world-c * ( PM_PI / 180 );
 
 /* convert Rpy angles to Euler's Zyz */
 pmRpyZyzConvert(rpy, zyz);
 
 joint[0] = world-tran.x;
 joint[1] = world-tran.y;
 joint[2] = world-tran.z;
 joint[3] = zyz.z * (180 / PM_PI);
 joint[4] = zyz.y * (180 / PM_PI);
 joint[5] = zyz.zp * (180 / PM_PI);
 
 return (0);
  }
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Euler's Zyz angles in kinematics

[Jan de Kruyf]

Why dont you set up a quick testbed and some prinf's
I am sure that is not going to take more than 20 lines of code.

j.

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:12 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hello!

 I am trying to develop kinematics module and I think that Euler's Zyz
 angles would be very appropriate to represent joints' positions.
 And for that I want to use Zyz to Rpy convertion in forward kins and
 Rpy to Zyz convertion in inverse kins.

 The problem is that I cannot get that conversion working. Not even as
 a pure concept - I have set the formulas as simple as possible just to
 get it working, and then I would like to adjust them so that they
 match the machine.

 What I get in EMC is:
 1) module compiles without errors, so I suspect thatI have got the
 syntax correct.
 2) EMC starts up without errors;
 3) Homing of joints works ok (I am running a simulated machine without
 any particular model loaded);
 4) switching to world mode and I get crazy values in A, B and C;
 5) sometimes I can quickly switch back to joint mode, where joint values
 are ok;
 6) anyway, all the times immediately or after few seconds I get error
 taht some of rotary joints have exceeded negative limit. And then
 switching to joint mode shows joint value of something like
 -6,175e+278

 And that is it.


 Question to the audience - has anyone ever used Euler angles in EMC2
 and functions that convert them to rpy, rotation matrix or whatever
 else?


 Thanks in advance!

 Viesturs


 Here is the forward and inverse kinematics section from the module:

 int kinematicsForward(const double * joint,
  EmcPose * world,
  const KINEMATICS_FORWARD_FLAGS * fflags,
  KINEMATICS_INVERSE_FLAGS * iflags)
 {
double a3, a4, a5;

PmEulerZyz zyz;
PmRpy rpy;

/* convert joint angles to radians for sin() and cos() */

a3 = joint[3] * ( PM_PI / 180 );
a4 = joint[4] * ( PM_PI / 180 );
a5 = joint[5] * ( PM_PI / 180 );

/* assign joint values to Zyz angles */
zyz.z = a3;
zyz.y = a4;
zyz.zp = a5;

/* use Euler's Zyz to Rpy conversion*/
pmZyzRpyConvert(zyz, rpy);

world-tran.x = joint[0];
world-tran.y = joint[1];
world-tran.z = joint[2];
world-a = rpy.r * 180 / PM_PI;
world-b = rpy.p * 180 / PM_PI;
world-c = rpy.y * 180 / PM_PI;

return (0);
 }

 int kinematicsInverse(const EmcPose * world,
  double * joint,
  const KINEMATICS_INVERSE_FLAGS * iflags,
  KINEMATICS_FORWARD_FLAGS * fflags)
 {
PmEulerZyz zyz;
PmRpy rpy;

rpy.r = world-a * ( PM_PI / 180 );
rpy.p = world-b * ( PM_PI / 180 );
rpy.y = world-c * ( PM_PI / 180 );

/* convert Rpy angles to Euler's Zyz */
pmRpyZyzConvert(rpy, zyz);

joint[0] = world-tran.x;
joint[1] = world-tran.y;
joint[2] = world-tran.z;
joint[3] = zyz.z * (180 / PM_PI);
joint[4] = zyz.y * (180 / PM_PI);
joint[5] = zyz.zp * (180 / PM_PI);

return (0);
 }


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Re: [Emc-users] Vacuum table

[Jan de Kruyf]

That is how I know them. No drilling holes in the spoil board at all.
the spoilboard might be placed on a really flat metal table with lots of
vacuum holes,
or on an array of movable vacuum cups, with a closed cell rubber seal along
the top.
the cups might be switched on automatically by a pusher pin in the center
for instance.
No spoiler board: No vacuum

J.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:37 PM, Edward Bernard
yankeelena2...@yahoo.comwrote:

 Just as a point of interest, on large commercial wood routers a large (10
 hp)
 vacuum pump is used to draw the vacuum directly through an MDF spoilbard.





 
 From: Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 4:06:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Vacuum table

 Ok, thanks for the explanation!
 Well, from my readings it seems that MDF is not a good choice, because
 it is porous material and needs some additional treatment to have it
 hold the vacuum. I believe that plywood would be better.

 Viesturs

 2011/4/28 BRIAN GLACKIN glackin.br...@gmail.com:
  peg board is a perforated MDF sheet.  Its typically 0.25 inches thick.
  Its
  used to hook hangers on for tools and other items.
 
  On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:10 PM, Viesturs Lācis
 viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:
 
  My apologies, but I think that I do not understand, what do You mean
  :) What is peg board and shop vac?
  I am considering any viable solution and in search for options I am
  now in process of reading a thread in CNCZone about vacuum tables...
 
  Viesturs
 
  2011/4/28 Kyle Kerr ker...@gmail.com:
Have you given any thought to peg board, a frame, and a shop vac?
  
   On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:41 AM, R. van Twisk e...@rvt.dds.nl
 wrote:
   Viesturs,
  
   I know a number of people on the Mechmate forum do have experiences
   in that area including photo's and type of vacuum systems used.
  
   Ries
   On Apr 28, 2011, at 10:38 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
  
   Hello, folks!
  
   Has anyone ever built a vacuum table? I need a solution to hold down
   plywood with vacuum for a router.
   I have been googling to find something useful, and I would like to
   ask, if any of list members could share their experience or a good
   source of information about efficient and cost-effective vacuum
 table.
  
   Thanks in advance!
   Viesturs
  
  
 

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Re: [Emc-users] EMC2 on Foxconn R40-D4, parallel port weirdness

[Jan de Kruyf]

I just did a piece of python with ppdev.
The author strongly advised to unload lp since it claims the hardware for
itself.

Does that make sense at all?? in this setup??

Regards,

J.

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Kirk Wallace
kwall...@wallacecompany.comwrote:

 On Mon, 2011-04-18 at 07:54 +0200, Jan de Kruyf wrote:
 ... snip
  I unfortunately do not know the parameters neededn for lp or EMC: In fact
  come to think of it, is lp used in EMC or ppdev???
 ... snip

 Four drivers are normally loaded; lp, ppdev and parport_pc and parport.
 In older versions of EMC2 one or two of these where required to be
 unloaded and was handled by the Linux start-up scripts. For current
 versions, I believe lp is needed if one wants to use a printer on the
 EMC2 PC. I think ppdev (or parport_pc?) is needed if one wants to use
 numbered ID's such as 0 for the first port, 1 for the second, etcetera.
 If using only direct addresses for the loadrt hal_parport, none of the
 other drivers are required to be loaded, or unloaded. Only the correct
 address for the installed hardware is needed, otherwise an ID number
 could be used.
 http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal_parallel_port.html

 To find the installed hardware addresses, lspci -v can be used to find
 the addresses of PCI add-on ports. Usually the addresses shown are for
 the base and the extended registers. The base addresses are used with
 the hal_parport config string. An example can be found at the bottom of
 the page here:
 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?Startech

 The listing shows the base and extended registers for the two parallel
 ports on this particular PCI card. The [ECP] shows that ECP is
 supported and also implies EPP is supported.

 The motherboard parallel port addresses and other information may be
 found by removing the parport_pc, then reloading and checking dmesg,
 such as...
 
 kwallace@910:~$ sudo rmmod parport_pc
 kwallace@910:~$ sudo modprobe parport_pc
 kwallace@910:~$ dmesg
 ...
 [ 2525.974319] parport_pc 00:0a: disabled
 [ 2544.613816] parport_pc 00:0a: activated
 [ 2544.613826] parport_pc 00:0a: reported by Plug and Play ACPI
 [ 2544.613967] parport0: PC-style at 0x378 (0x778), irq 7, dma 3
 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,ECP,DMA]
 [ 2544.701868] parport0: Printer, EPSON Stylus COLOR 600
 ...
 

 On my workstation, it can be seen that I have a base register at 0x378,
 an extended register at 0x778 and ECP (EPP), and an EPSON printer
 connected.

 Unloading, reloading and dmesg for the other drivers may provide more
 information.

 Other links:
 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?SIIG
 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?NetMos

 http://www.beyondlogic.org/

 The port pins can not be relied upon to follow a standard, but it is
 safer to assume that each output will source no current and sink up to
 3mA. This means that a pull up resistor is needed to provide the output
 current. The parallel port pin will pull the output to 0 Volts for a
 logic 0, and allow the pull-up to bring the pin to 5 Volts for a logic
 1. A 1.5k Ohm pull-up resistor to a 5 Volt supply is common. Depending
 on the circuit that the output is connected to, a current limit resistor
 and/or reverse current diode and/or opto-isolator may be needed. A
 buffer chip such as a 74AC241 (244, 245 or similar) to drive any sort of
 a load such as an LED. The AC series chips can source or sink 24mA.
 http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74ac241.pdf

 If the parallel port runs on 3 Volts a level translator type chip may be
 needed. PCI parallel port cards usually run on 5 Volts and are _much_
 cheaper to replace than motherboard ports.

 --
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA



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Re: [Emc-users] System Integrator?

[Jan de Kruyf]

Sounds to me like a Siemens Machinetool Spindle motor.
But the speed-range is a bit wide for constant torque. Do you need the full
torque at 4000rpm?
Might it be with a 2speed (or 3speed) gearbox?

There again: I live in South Africa, so not too much help I guess.

Cheers

J.


On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 12:37 PM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Does anyone out there in UK-based EMC2-land have a sideline in drive
 installation/integration.

 My employer has a requirement to buy-in a complete, CE-marked,
 variable speed drive. It needs a 3-phase plug on one end and a 20Nm
 (nominal) 60Nm(max transient)  400-4000rpm rotating shaft on the
 other. It needs to hit the target torque throughout that speed range.
 Somewhere in the middle there needs to be a way to control the speed.

 Budget is in the low thousands of pounds.

 --
 atp
 Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise
 men


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Re: [Emc-users] EMC2 on Foxconn R40-D4, parallel port weirdness

[Jan de Kruyf]

This sounds like 2 sets of hardware fighting each other, I mean when you
made the second port.

What about switching the port at 0x378 off?

or alternatively you might also try to restart parport-pc with just the
portaddress you have set in the bios.
I unfortunately do not know the parameters neededn for lp or EMC: In fact
come to think of it, is lp used in EMC or ppdev???

Can someone help out here??

cheers

Jan de Kruyf.


On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 2:25 AM, jb...@frii.com wrote:

 I installed Ubuntu 10-04LTS/EMC2 on a brand-new Foxconn R40-D4 Atom
 D525 box.  All the real-time files show up in /dev and EMC starts with
 no errors.
 Problem #1 was there was no output from the parallel port.  It shows
 up as 'out' in stepconfig.  When I read /var/log/dmesg I see a line
 lp: driver loaded but no device detected which makes me worried.
 I went into the BIOS and played around, and I found that if I set the
 parallel port to have an address 0x278 in the BIOS, then go into
 stepconf and add a second parallel card at the standard address 0x378,
 the parallel port has outputs -- pin 2 is x step, pin 3 is x dir, just
 as I had set it up.
 Except the voltage coming out of the parallel port is 300mV, give or
 take a couple millivolts, rather than the 3.3V or 5V I would have
 expected, and of course the motor drives don't see 300mV.  That's at
 least two volts below their threshhold.
 Foxconn doesn't list this machine on their website downloads section,
 or any other machine with the same processor (the Atom D525) so I don't
 want to download a bios for a different processor and completely hose
 the machine.

 I don't know whether I'm doing something wrong, the BIOS is wrong, the
 hardware is wrong, or something else entirely is wrong.  I know the CNC
 machine itself works because I've run it off another computer (that I
 can't use for actual control because its latency is terrible, but it
 worked fine for testing.)  I put in a second parallel card and tried to
 assign it in stepconf but that didn't seem to work at all.

 Has anyone else used this hardware?  Do you have any suggestions for
 what I need to do to fix or work around this situation?  I could make a
 whole bunch of opamps to act as voltage translators but I'm reluctant
 to start down the kludge path so early, especially when maybe it's just
 a bad superIO chip and I need to return the box to newegg and start
 with another.
 Thanks for any help



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Re: [Emc-users] A possible new gotcha for emc users.

[Jan de Kruyf]

hahahahaha:

http://tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Filesystem-Hierarchy/html/foreward.html

So guess which distributions are not even LINUX. Nevermind Unix.

Regards to all of you, let me go back to hybernation. (and Debian)

Jan de Kruyf.


On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 9:26 AM, Erik Christiansen
dva...@internode.on.netwrote:

 On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 02:36:14PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
  I had a link forwarded to me today, which may have a bearing on some
  problems I am having with an unrelated linux install.
 
  http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken

 Sure looks scary, but decidedly dufus. My first thought was that it had
 to be residual April first nonsense, but wikipedia says on its systemd
 page:

 -

 Adoption
 
 Originally systemd was planned to be enabled by default in the Fedora 14
 release,[3] however it was postponed. systemd is an optional package in
 Fedora
 14, and will be default in Fedora 15.[4]

 openSUSE was also considering adopting systemd for version 11.4,[5] however
 it
 was postponed.[6]

 Mandriva 2011 will adopt systemd.[7]

 Arch Linux has experimental packages in the community repository for the
 systemd itself and a set of basic units. [8]

 Debian has experimental packages for systemd. [9]

 -

 So it doesn't look like anyone is crazy enough to use it seriously ...
 yet.

 It seems worth remembering that ubuntu originated upstart, the
 event-based replacement for init (and therefore alternative to systemd).
 I can't see Canonical ditching their baby in favour of some crazy
 creation with possibly more defects than assets.

 And in the unlikely event that ubuntu ever becomes awkward for emc2,
 then a retreat to debian should provide safety from adventurous changes,
 at least for a century or two. (Some say that's just about their update
 rate. :^)

 Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] A possible new gotcha for emc users.

[Jan de Kruyf]

because once another partition is mounted as /usr, then the kernel
isn't . . . .

This is probably where the rub is. They have perceived some desperate need
to do things in / for user space while the machine has not even mounted the
partitions.

Smells of windoze thinking. Look ma no brain. And it is caused by working
for a monthly pay-check (not that we don't all need one off course)

In Debian also things happen, but then at least they have been chewed over
at nauseam on the lists and some communal decision has been reached, which
is TRACABLE and understandable if you take the trouble to study the matter.

many eons ago I used to run Mandrake, but the answers always came from the
Debian / Ubuntu lists. Until I chose eggs for my money and went on with
life.

So thats my 2 cents worth in this discussion.

Jan de Kruyf.


On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Erik Christiansen dva...@internode.on.net
 wrote:

 On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 09:31:56AM +0200, Jan de Kruyf wrote:
  hahahahaha:
 
  http://tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Filesystem-Hierarchy/html/foreward.html

 The guff from freedesktop.org still looks like an April fool's joke to
 me, because once another partition is mounted as /usr, then the kernel
 isn't goung to let on to some fool app how it's made part of the
 filesystem. Reads and writes should look identical to the app making the
 system calls.

 So long as systemd, or any other init substitute, only accesses /usr
 after it is mounted, then it won't know what partition it's in, AIUI.

  So guess which distributions are not even LINUX. Nevermind Unix.
 
  Regards to all of you, let me go back to hybernation. (and Debian)

 It's a good place to be. Even if the guff from freedesktop.org is hokum,
 you're protected against offerings like NetworkManager, creeping Do Not
 Edit config files, and other unwelcome innovations.

 Happy hibernation,

 Erik

 --
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 -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.


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Re: [Emc-users] gEDA

[Jan de Kruyf]

I just had a good look around Kicad. And coming from ORCAD, I liked very
much what I saw.
I can basically just get on with my life, which I could NOT say of gEDA last
time I looked at it.

Jan.

On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Frank Tkalcevic 
fr...@franksworkshop.com.au wrote:

 I found KiCad easier to use.
 http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page


  -Original Message-
  From: Kirk Wallace [mailto:kwall...@wallacecompany.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2010 5:19 AM
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  Subject: [Emc-users] gEDA
 
  Is gEDA the best Linux based alternative to Eagle?
  --
  Kirk Wallace
  http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
  http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
  California, USA
 
 
 

 
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Re: [Emc-users] gEDA

[Jan de Kruyf]

Very true -- so I was careful to mention where I came from.
What I always liked about ORCAD though was the incredible speed with which I
could crank
out drawings.

Jan.

On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Gary P. Fiber gfi...@comcast.net wrote:

 I think some EDA tools are like driving a Ford or Chevrolet. They mostly
 all do the same thing, some are a better fit for oneself than others and
 some are incomplete. But mostly the tools I am referring to are free so
 I can't complain to much. Comparable to the OS wars, Do we use BSD,
 Linux, Windows? What distribution...here Ubuntu is used. I personally
 like openSuSE also have a in house server running on FreeBSD 7.1

 I had an old DOS copy of Orcad but no PCB editor was with it. It worked
 very well once I got used to it.

 On 12/29/2010 11:10 AM, Jan de Kruyf wrote:
  I just had a good look around Kicad. And coming from ORCAD, I liked very
  much what I saw.
  I can basically just get on with my life, which I could NOT say of gEDA
 last
  time I looked at it.
 
  Jan.
 
  On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Frank Tkalcevic
  fr...@franksworkshop.com.au  wrote:
 
  I found KiCad easier to use.
  http://kicad.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: Kirk Wallace [mailto:kwall...@wallacecompany.com]
  Sent: Tuesday, 28 December 2010 5:19 AM
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  Subject: [Emc-users] gEDA
 
  Is gEDA the best Linux based alternative to Eagle?
  --
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  http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
  http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
  California, USA
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Emc-users] Expansion of EMC

[Jan de Kruyf]

On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Don Stanley dstanley1...@gmail.comwrote:

I'd say its 3 cents with interest.





 If you want to see an example of the core group going commercial, take a
 look at
 Red Hat and their resulting open source Linux effort Fedora.


from my hart.


 Those who wish to go commercial are already doing so with no disruption to
 the
 EMC2 effort (only enhances it).

 I suggest anyone who wants to go commercial with EMC and sell to large
 companies or manufactures, get a large capital reserve so your customer
 can see how to recover if your system doesn't work.
 Then advertise what you can do for their new system, or their broken
 controllers.


And this will improve EMC tremendously, since we now have to actually listen
to real live customers
The results of that discussion wiil ultimately feed back into EMC.
Everybody will happily make money, a core group of happy customers will come
in existence, software will get better, donations will be made, etc.

People don't own companies; companies own people; and the Government owns
 them both. Just look at the companies payroll Tax records.


And I would say the honourable investor that started off this thread was
uh... perhaps looking to own some people.

Commercial pressure from customers has improved a product time and again,
financial pressure from the investors rarely.

Regards,

Jan de Kruyf.
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Re: [Emc-users] Expansion of EMC

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hallo,

1. EMC appeals to the hobbyists. It has a good basic structure inherited
from NIST but lately lots of things have been happening that are not so well
structured and documented.

2. Here and there it gets a bit stale already.

3. The user interface needs a lot of critical thinking still, to bring it up
to scratch. Have a good look at the latest FANUCs for instance.

4. So to me it is a perfect solution for specials. But it will need a LOT of
work to make i appealing to the mass market. In fact I do heavy evangelizing
in the workplace, but the resistance is unbelievable.

5. So personally I will not invest in such a company. But your mileage may
differ.

6. Where money comes in through the frontdoor, trust leaves through the
backdoor; and the most important thing is NOT going to happen anytime real
soon, because now we are argueing.

7. So I propose we rather consentrate on enjoyment and see if we cannot
clean up a few things in the software here and there. Perhaps see if we can
make a professional version that costs a bit more in switches etc, but that
will be very presentable.

Regards,

Jan de Kruyf.



On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Edward Bernard yankeelena2...@yahoo.comwrote:

 I'm surprised there were no comments on this. I'm wondering how such a
 venture
 could effect our beloved software.



 - Original Message 
 From: Anonymous Investor backgroundpart...@gmail.com
 To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 Sent: Wed, December 8, 2010 9:10:13 AM
 Subject: [Emc-users] Expansion of EMC

 *Business Opportunity related to EMC2*

 EMC2 may be well written CNC control software, but it does not appear to be
 making progress entering mainstream applications.  We believe that the
 largest impediment to success is the lack of a full scope supplier.  We
 feel
 that the mainstream machine builder community, meaning hobby, professional,
 and OEM, remains outside the open source community.  Furthermore, we feel
 that the solution is not to try and bring machine builders into the open
 source community, but rather to bring complete solutions to machine
 builders.  We propose the creation of a company which delivers EMC based
 solutions, essentially the Red Hat of CNC.  To that end, we will finance
 such a company.



 *Perspective:*

 There are quite a few hobby oriented suppliers, based on Mach3, TurboCAD,
 and other solutions, which offer everything including ballscrews, motors,
 drivers, and circuit boards.  These companies serve their customers well,
 but they do not come up to the level of professionalism that is necessary
 to
 attract serious commercial machine builders.



 There are mid-level suppliers, such as Flashcut, CamSoft, or Centroid,
 which
 offer reasonable value but cannot provide the security, vendor
 independence,
 or continuity of supply, which would be available with a more open
 technology.   Of course the 800 lb gorilla is Fanuc, having sold 2.2
 million
 control systems.  While offering the ultimate in performance, Fanuc
 solutions come with minimum vendor independence and dismal ROI for those
 only needed mid-level performance.



 We believe a full service, professional grade supplier, offering complete
 control systems solutions, can be an effective competitor and is sorely
 needed by all levels of machine builders.  We are not proposing open source
 hardware, but rather combining open source software with support and
 conventional industrial components to develop full spectrum solutions. This
 is not a matter of welcoming machine builders into the open source
 community; rather it is an issue of bringing the resources and value of
 open
 source to the market, offering attractive ROI to both customers and
 investor.



 *Details and How to Proceed:*

 We are looking to invest in a start-up business which meets the general
 goals as outlined above.  We will provide the majority of capital and
 mentoring as needed.  We will not participate in, nor attempt to control,
 the day to day activities of the business.  If you want this to be your
 start-up business, submit a business plan to the email of Anonymous
 Investor
 at the address [backgroundpartner at gmail.com].  All submissions will
 remain confidential.  There are many resources available for guidance on
 the
 development of a business plan, Google it.   There is no specific timeline
 for this venture, but we will keep it open for at least 2 months.  This is
 not a contest; it’s an investment and a partnership.  A credible plan may
 be
 reviewed with suggestions for improvement.  We have limited time for dialog
 and are unlikely to answer email from those with idle curiosity.



 *Anti-Spam and Scam Issues:*

 The legitimacy of this opportunity should speak for itself.  This offer is
 only going out to the EMC email list and at no time will we ask for money,
 deposits, or personal financial information.  Our anonymity will be removed
 for those whose negotiations appear credible and who sign non-disclosure
 agreement

Re: [Emc-users] AVR Gadget, was: scale/encoder

[Jan de Kruyf]

Make up some assembler macros to imitate a plc or any other controller for
that matter
. Works like a bomb, its just that you are back to the try, improve, wipe,
reprogram cycle.

j.

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Kirk Wallace
kwall...@wallacecompany.comwrote:

 On Fri, 2010-10-29 at 17:43 -0400, Kent A. Reed wrote:
 ... snip
  For those of us who grew up in the middle of the last century, this is
  the most amazing fact about today's microcontrollers.
  ...  I also
  think about how many more things I could have achieved had I not had to
  spend so much time getting each hybrid solution right. Sigh.

 I have just restarted learning about C programming AVR's (ATtiny2313).
 I've gotten an LED to flash with a button push, and to vary the LED
 light with a ramped PWM, so I'm getting a better idea of what I might be
 able to accomplish. Atmel's website has a wide range of application
 notes that cover LCD displays, PWM, encoders and such. I'm thinking that
 it would nice to have a stand-alone gadget as a source to test PWM input
 devices (Pico AMPs). A frequency could be selected, and the duty cycle
 varied with a knob (quadrature encoder), with the values being displayed
 on an LCD. My problem is that the gadget would only save me booting a
 PC, and it would be a fair amount of work to build the gadget. I'm
 trying to figure out if it would be worth it. Anybody have other ideas
 for an AVR project that might be worth doing? I tend to think a PLC or
 Tool changer controller is better done with EMC2. An e-stop or watchdog
 controller might be worthy. EPP to Modbus converter? EPP to fast step or
 PWM generator?

 --
 Kirk Wallace
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/
 http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html
 California, USA



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Re: [Emc-users] In what the reason?

[Jan de Kruyf]

What type of spindle / ballscrew are you using?
Is there any play in the nut?
Is there any play in the thrust bearing?
When you move the table by hand, does the mechanical movement feel smooth
with similar
force needed in both directions?
What is the state of the gibs? Are they locked up properly?

Is all wiring tight and secure, both inside the cabinet and inside the
motor?
If Plugs and sockets are used: are there no pins that are partially pushed
back?
Is the powersupply to the Y-axis from the common rail, or does it have its
own powersupply?

Have fun.

jan de kruyf.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Andrey stormbringe...@mail.ru wrote:

 Thanks Jon,thanks Stuart.I am grateful for your answers.
 Today the servoamplifier failed) Now there is an additional information for
 speculation. I will mandatory use your recommendations. The idea of
 excitation of system the servomotor +  servoamplifier is very probable.
 Once again many thanks,Andrey


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Re: [Emc-users] EMC2 on USB flash drive

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hi,
This happens to me when the boot image loaded by the bootloader cannot find
the root disk
i.e when the root= /dev/ statement is faulty on the kernel line in
grub

Jan.

On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hello!

 I have Intel D510MO motherboard for a PC, where I would like to run EMC2.
 Yesterday I downloaded Ubuntu 8.04 + EMC2 live CD image, i created a
 USB startup disk from that image with a built-in startup disk creator
 on my notebook, which is running Lucid. I have another 4 GB USB flash
 drive to be used as SSD drive, where I would like to install the
 Ubuntu + EMC.

 The problem is that beforementioned motherboard won't boot from that
 USB startup disk - boot error is displayed. Actually my notebook
 also won't boot from that startup disk - it asks it me to choose
 language, then shows the screen with Ubuntu logo and the orange stuff
 running from one side to another and then it shows following:

 udevd-event[1539]: run_program: '/sbin/modprobe' abnormal exit

 BusyBox v1.1.3 (Debian 1:1.1.3-5ubuntu12) Built-in shell (ash)
 Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

 (initramfs)



 After waiting for several minutes some other lines start to appear,
 but i was not able to write them down. I had created a Lucid startup
 disk on the same USB flash drive in Karmic Kubuntu and that is how i
 installed Lucid no my notebook, so I do not understand, what is the
 problem.

 Then I tried to install pure Hardy from USB DVD drive, and here the
 same screen is shown again.

 I managed to boot from the USB DVD drive on another PC and installed
 the Hardy on the USB flash drive, inserted it in the usb port on that
 Intel board and then it won't boot properly - it starts loading and
 when that progress bar starts filling up, it hangs in the middle of
 the third small block. I can press ctrl+alt+del which cause the
 progress bar to fill up and then display a screen, which says that X
 window manager could not be started. If I do not press ctrl+alt+del, I
 have to wait for several minutes, and when it decides to continue,
 loading quickly completes, I am asked for username and password and
 then it freezes on that grey screen forever (the same color that is in
 background, when username and password is asked). Mouse pointer is
 displayed and nothing more. If i press ctrl+alt+del now, after some
 waiting i am presented with that shut down screen - with option to
 shut down, restart, switch user, lock screen and log out. If I press
 cancel, i am taken back to grey screen and mouse pointer.
 Unfortunately I cannot test the it in the PC, where i installed it to
 the USB flash drive, because that PC cannot boot from removable device
 - no such option in the BIOS.

 I would appreciate anyone, who has EMC2 running from some removable
 media, share their experience on how to do that. I searched the web
 and i found something like - install as usual, afterwards do this and
 that to configure Ubuntu to avoid unnecessary writes to the drive. It
 seems to me, that installing as usual does not work. Any suggestions?

 with best regards,
 Viesturs


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Re: [Emc-users] OT quick question on sizing flyback diodes.

[Jan de Kruyf]

Stall current is the answer, since the full motor current goes through
the diodes in the off phase
The voltage is supply voltage with a margin.
And make sure they are high speed diodes since with a small deadband
the rails will short in the reverse conduction spike of the diodes.

Jan.


On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 9:11 PM, Greg Bentzinger skullwo...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I'm putting a small H-bridge together using TIP121/126 to replace a 
 SN754410NE. The schematic I'm following didn't list any values for the 
 flyback diodes. In fact some examples left them out. I know that when this 
 circuit is in use it switches from full forward to full reverse with no 
 ramping. This tends to overheat the SN754410NE with small motors and blow it 
 with motors slightly larger.

 The H-Bridge is driven by a LM339 and about the only adjustment I have is the 
 amount of deadband between directions.

 My question is how to determine values for the flyback diodes. In the past I 
 used the motor stall current spec to be on the safe side. In other circuits I 
 often see very small diodes like 1A on a 7A drive. Also voltage rating, does 
 the back EMF rise much greater than the supply voltage? If so how much higher 
 % should one use?

 Since someone will ask - this is the ram servo control for a small tabletop 
 sinker EDM - the abrupt movements really aid in flushing as well as breaking 
 momentary shorts sometimes caused by debris in the work contact area.

 Thanks much team.

 Greg

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Re: [Emc-users] long time saving file

[Jan de Kruyf]

use iotop

http://guichaz.free.fr/iotop/

packages.debian.org/sid/iotop

so for sure there is an ubuntu package also


jan.


On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Stuart Stevenson stus...@gmail.com wrote:

 Gentlemen,
  The operator running the EMC2 Cinci says it sometimes takes 20 minutes to
 save a file after he edits it. I am 90% sure the edit is done through the
 menu in AXIS.
  What should I look for when troubleshooting this? I have not had the
 opportunity to look at this while the 'save' is happening. I was informed of
 this yesterday [so much for communication :( ].
  Load/save is done from/to an NFS mounted directory on our network.
  My first thought would be to move the directory to the local hard drive.
  'top' is my second thought.
  Suggestions - Comments very welcome
 thanks
 Stuart

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Re: [Emc-users] emc debian rules.

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hallo,
I _think_ i got a working patch, but at the moment 1 prob became 3 all
perfectly according to the laws of
breakdown chaotics off course.

in any case:
there is a serious problem with the debian rtai package, which I will try to
sort out with the maintainer.
and
there is a problem with newer kernels (2.6.32.9-rtai) and EMC linux which I
will try to solve if I can.

Here is the build trace of the problem:
---
Compiling hal/components/streamer_usr.c
In file included from /usr/include/asm/types.h:4,
 from rtapi/rtapi.h:75,
 from hal/components/streamer_usr.c:68:
/usr/src/linux/include/asm-generic/int-ll64.h:11:29: error:
asm/bitsperlong.h: No such file or directory
make[1]: *** [objects/hal/components/streamer_usr.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/jan/cnclinux/emc-test/src'
make: *** [build-stamp] Error 2
j...@debianlenny:~/cnclinux/emc-test$
-
quickly googling brought this email thread:
http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Kernel/2009-09/msg10761.html

and this webpage;
http://kernelnewbies.org/KernelHeaders

It will be somewhere along these lines I guess.
I will have a look in the weekend.

and I will try to move this discussion to the maintainers list.

Cheers,

Jan.


On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 7:23 PM, Jan de Kruyf jan.de.kr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hallo,
 not to worry, I was sidetracked as well. I am busy working on a more
 general patch for debian,
  that hopefully will not break ubuntu or any other.
 I will be back shortly.

 Regards

 Jan de Kruyf.





 On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 3:57 AM, Jeff Epler jep...@unpythonic.net wrote:

 I'm sorry I haven't had the time to reply before now.

 I see two choices for you.  First, enhance debian/configure and the
 associated .in files so that they can work for both the Ubuntu platforms
 we wish to build on, and the Debian platforms you are interested in.

 Second, carry these changes for yourself.  git is much better at this
 than cvs was, and debian/rules doesn't change all that often.

 As long as they don't damage building on Ubuntu 8.04 or 10.04 I'd be
 pleased to consider patches of the first type for inclusion on master.

 Based on your description, maybe a patch like the following can be
 adapted to fit your needs and ours both:

 From: Jeff Epler jep...@unpythonic.net
 Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:52:17 -0500
 Subject: [PATCH] WIP: make debian/configure more flexible

 this is a sketch of how to make debian/configure supply extra configure
 arguments and also look for realtime configuration scripts in the right
 location.  It's untested, but may be helpful to you.
 ---
  debian/configure |   15 +++
  1 files changed, 15 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

 diff --git a/debian/configure b/debian/configure
 index ded813e..ad36da2 100755
 --- a/debian/configure
 +++ b/debian/configure
 @@ -62,10 +62,18 @@ MODULE_EXT=.ko
  KERNEL_DEPENDS=linux-image-$1,rtai-modules-$1
  KERNEL_HEADERS=linux-headers-$1
  EXTRA_FILES=usr/bin/emc_module_helper usr/bin/bfload
 +EXTRA_CONFIGURE=
  KERNEL_VERSION=$1
  DRIVERS=drivers.files.in
  PYTHON_VERSION=$(python -c 'import sys; print sys.version[:3]')
  PYTHON_VERSION_NEXT=$(python -c 'import sys; print sys.version[:2] +
 str(1+int(sys.version[2]))')
 +if [ -x /usr/realtime-$KERNEL_VERSION/bin/rtai-config ]; then
 +REALTIME_CONFIGURE=--with-realtime=/usr/realtime-$KERNEL_VERSION
 +elif [ -x /usr/realtime/bin/rtai-config ]; then
 +REALTIME_CONFIGURE=--with-realtime=/usr/realtime
 +else
 +REALTIME_CONFIGURE=--with-realtime=/usr
 +fi

  # hope this works on other systems too
  DISTRIB_NAME=
 @@ -89,6 +97,10 @@ Ubuntu-8.04)

  
 EXTRA_BUILD=lyx,texlive-extra-utils,texlive-latex-recommended,texlive-fonts-recommended,ghostscript,imagemagick,texlive-lang-french
TCLTK_VERSION=8.4
;;
 +Debian-)
 +
 EXTRA_BUILD=lyx,texlive-extra-utils,texlive-latex-recommended,texlive-fonts-recommended,ghostscript,imagemagick,texlive-lang-french
 +   TCLTK_VERSION=8.4
 +   EXTRA_CONFIGURE=--with-tclConfig=/usr/lib/tcl8.4/tclConfig.sh
 --with-tkconfig=/usr/lib/tk8.4/tkConfig.sh
  *)
EXTRA_BUILD=lyx-qt
TCLTK_VERSION=8.4
 @@ -100,6 +112,7 @@ EMC2_PACKAGE_NAME=emc2
  EXTRA_RECOMMENDS=hostmot2-firmware
  case $TARGET in
 sim)
 +   REALTIME_CONFIGURE=--enable-simulator
 MODULE_PATH=usr/lib/emc2/modules
MODULE_EXT=.so
KERNEL_DEPENDS=
 @@ -134,6 +147,8 @@ sed -e s|@MODULE_PATH@|$MODULE_PATH|g \
 -e s|@KERNEL_HEADERS@|$KERNEL_HEADERS|g \
 -e s|@EXTRA_BUILD@|$EXTRA_BUILD|g \
 -e s|@EXTRA_RECOMMENDS@|$EXTRA_RECOMMENDS|g \
 +-e s|@EXTRA_CONFIGURE@|$EXTRA_CONFIGURE|g \
 +-e s|@REALTIME_CONFIGURE@|$REALTIME_CONFIGURE|g \
 -e s|@EMC2_PACKAGE_NAME@|$EMC2_PACKAGE_NAME|g \
 -e s|@EXTRAS@|$EXTRAS|g \
 -e s|@EXTRA_FILES@|$EXTRA_FILES|g \
 --
 1.7.0.4

Re: [Emc-users] emc debian rules.

[Jan de Kruyf]

Hallo,
not to worry, I was sidetracked as well. I am busy working on a more general
patch for debian,
 that hopefully will not break ubuntu or any other.
I will be back shortly.

Regards

Jan de Kruyf.




On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 3:57 AM, Jeff Epler jep...@unpythonic.net wrote:

 I'm sorry I haven't had the time to reply before now.

 I see two choices for you.  First, enhance debian/configure and the
 associated .in files so that they can work for both the Ubuntu platforms
 we wish to build on, and the Debian platforms you are interested in.

 Second, carry these changes for yourself.  git is much better at this
 than cvs was, and debian/rules doesn't change all that often.

 As long as they don't damage building on Ubuntu 8.04 or 10.04 I'd be
 pleased to consider patches of the first type for inclusion on master.

 Based on your description, maybe a patch like the following can be
 adapted to fit your needs and ours both:

 From: Jeff Epler jep...@unpythonic.net
 Date: Sun, 2 May 2010 20:52:17 -0500
 Subject: [PATCH] WIP: make debian/configure more flexible

 this is a sketch of how to make debian/configure supply extra configure
 arguments and also look for realtime configuration scripts in the right
 location.  It's untested, but may be helpful to you.
 ---
  debian/configure |   15 +++
  1 files changed, 15 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-)

 diff --git a/debian/configure b/debian/configure
 index ded813e..ad36da2 100755
 --- a/debian/configure
 +++ b/debian/configure
 @@ -62,10 +62,18 @@ MODULE_EXT=.ko
  KERNEL_DEPENDS=linux-image-$1,rtai-modules-$1
  KERNEL_HEADERS=linux-headers-$1
  EXTRA_FILES=usr/bin/emc_module_helper usr/bin/bfload
 +EXTRA_CONFIGURE=
  KERNEL_VERSION=$1
  DRIVERS=drivers.files.in
  PYTHON_VERSION=$(python -c 'import sys; print sys.version[:3]')
  PYTHON_VERSION_NEXT=$(python -c 'import sys; print sys.version[:2] +
 str(1+int(sys.version[2]))')
 +if [ -x /usr/realtime-$KERNEL_VERSION/bin/rtai-config ]; then
 +REALTIME_CONFIGURE=--with-realtime=/usr/realtime-$KERNEL_VERSION
 +elif [ -x /usr/realtime/bin/rtai-config ]; then
 +REALTIME_CONFIGURE=--with-realtime=/usr/realtime
 +else
 +REALTIME_CONFIGURE=--with-realtime=/usr
 +fi

  # hope this works on other systems too
  DISTRIB_NAME=
 @@ -89,6 +97,10 @@ Ubuntu-8.04)

  
 EXTRA_BUILD=lyx,texlive-extra-utils,texlive-latex-recommended,texlive-fonts-recommended,ghostscript,imagemagick,texlive-lang-french
TCLTK_VERSION=8.4
;;
 +Debian-)
 +
 EXTRA_BUILD=lyx,texlive-extra-utils,texlive-latex-recommended,texlive-fonts-recommended,ghostscript,imagemagick,texlive-lang-french
 +   TCLTK_VERSION=8.4
 +   EXTRA_CONFIGURE=--with-tclConfig=/usr/lib/tcl8.4/tclConfig.sh
 --with-tkconfig=/usr/lib/tk8.4/tkConfig.sh
  *)
EXTRA_BUILD=lyx-qt
TCLTK_VERSION=8.4
 @@ -100,6 +112,7 @@ EMC2_PACKAGE_NAME=emc2
  EXTRA_RECOMMENDS=hostmot2-firmware
  case $TARGET in
 sim)
 +   REALTIME_CONFIGURE=--enable-simulator
 MODULE_PATH=usr/lib/emc2/modules
MODULE_EXT=.so
KERNEL_DEPENDS=
 @@ -134,6 +147,8 @@ sed -e s|@MODULE_PATH@|$MODULE_PATH|g \
 -e s|@KERNEL_HEADERS@|$KERNEL_HEADERS|g \
 -e s|@EXTRA_BUILD@|$EXTRA_BUILD|g \
 -e s|@EXTRA_RECOMMENDS@|$EXTRA_RECOMMENDS|g \
 +-e s|@EXTRA_CONFIGURE@|$EXTRA_CONFIGURE|g \
 +-e s|@REALTIME_CONFIGURE@|$REALTIME_CONFIGURE|g \
 -e s|@EMC2_PACKAGE_NAME@|$EMC2_PACKAGE_NAME|g \
 -e s|@EXTRAS@|$EXTRAS|g \
 -e s|@EXTRA_FILES@|$EXTRA_FILES|g \
 --
 1.7.0.4


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Re: [Emc-users] Microcontroller motor drive [Was: Resolver to Quadrature Convertor]

[Jan de Kruyf]

My outdated brush DC motor controller wisdom is that
you have a current loop controlled by a speed loop.
The current loop is set up to cancel out the effect of the R(esistive)
L(inductive) effects of the rotor inductance.
and the speedloop is a staightforward PI loop.
This makes for a very stable and easy tunable motor drive. In fact I have
never set up a pure speed loop (i.e. voltage control) drive in all these
years. I know they have been popular in the US for smaller setups
(fractional horsepower)
So I would say that ultimately also a 3phase drive will have a current loop
to negate the RL factor of the winding. Interesting to see how the lag is
accounted for since the speed is done by the field frequency. Must be by
torque control i.e current control.
Alternatively just jam it with power like in a microstepping setup.

Greetings.

Jan


On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:41 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote:

 On Wed, 28 Apr 2010, Jon Elson wrote:

  Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2010 11:16:14 -0500
  From: Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com
  Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
  emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
  To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
 
  Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Microcontroller motor drive [Was: Resolver to
  Quadrature Convertor]
 
  Andy Pugh wrote:
  I just found this application note from Atmel
  http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc2592.pdf
 
  The problem with all of these designs is they have no current loop
  control.  I could be wrong, but I think you really need closed-loop
  current (torque) control for this to work well.  If you do this in
  voltage-mode control (just adjusting the PWM duty cycle without sensing
  motor current) then I think you will find that the loop becomes very
  hard to tune near zero speed, where the requirement for PWM duty cycle
  will be VERY low.  This is how my drives work, but since they are only
  doing trapezoidal drive, you don't have to impose the sinusoidal drive
  waveforms on top of that already small pulse width.
 
  Jon
 


 We've (and our customers) have run motors in sinusoidal voltage mode with
 our
 7I39 with good results for many years, so it is possible. Its tougher with
 IGBTs than MOSFETS since the IGBT deadtime is a so much greater proportion
 of
 the total on time. This requires good deadzone compensation so the actual
 motor voltage is more linear near zero (The pulse width is ~50% at ~0
 voltage, its just the overlaps that get small)

 Voltage mode actually has some advantages over current controlled mode:

 Better inherent high frequency damping (driver has low impedance)

 Quieter (Current control loops invariably hiss and whistle)


 balanced with some disadvantages:

 No torque limit/control other than overall current limit

 Lower bandwidth (inductance feed forward can help here)


 Peter Wallace


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Re: [Emc-users] Microcontroller motor drive [Was: Resolver to Quadrature Convertor]

[Jan de Kruyf]

I am sure you are desperate to go and spend your hard earned money (;-
J.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote:

 Jan de Kruyf wrote:
  So I would say that ultimately also a 3phase drive will have a current
 loop
  to negate the RL factor of the winding.
 But, this requires at least two current sensors, and they have to
 account for the commutation and sinusoidal drive to provide unvarying
 torque.  So, it gets a LOT more complicated than on a brush drive.

 Jon


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