Re: [Emc-users] Cecil Thomas - CNC'd Watchmakers Lathe
least expensive is a Ebay driver with built in BOB like http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Axis-TB6560-CNC-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-Board-/130532311197?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1e6455009d that was just a quick grab, shop around ebay and find the best fit for price location and shipping cost. if you need a power supply you can also get if from ebay, some times even from the guy your getting the driver from. look at the what else the supplier of the drive has for sale, most times you can save on shipping that way. On 4/4/2013 4:55 AM, John Stewart wrote: Cecil Thomas mentioned in another thread that he'd cnc'd a watchmakers lathe. I'm looking for ideas here. A Unimat SL1000, MK1 landed on my desk last Saturday. It's mine if I want it. Have been thinking of taking some of my CNC parts kicking around home and using them, but I don't think using a 5i25 + 7i76 + Nema 34 steppers is great. So, with a little lathe like this, if I go with NEMA 17 3D Printer steppers (think Reprap or one of the Thingverse machines), what would be the best, least expensive way of driving these steppers from a LinuxCNC setup? Do the C10 boards, as shown in www.automationtechnologies.com's stepper motor kits work with LinuxCNC? I expect this little lathe to be a toy or demo lathe; take it along to shows, etc, and have it run making little brass swarf piles. I do have a computer put together with 5I25 and an Intel D525MW motherboard waiting to sit beside my larger CNC lathe build, so I could use that for computer horsepower. Thoughts? Thank you; -- Minimize network downtime and maximize team effectiveness. Reduce network management and security costs.Learn how to hire the most talented Cisco Certified professionals. Visit the Employer Resources Portal http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/employer_resources/index.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Minimize network downtime and maximize team effectiveness. Reduce network management and security costs.Learn how to hire the most talented Cisco Certified professionals. Visit the Employer Resources Portal http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/employer_resources/index.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Cecil Thomas - CNC'd Watchmakers Lathe
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/stepper-motor they have small steppers, down to NEMA 11, if you look around you can find NEMA 8 as well, remember that torque drops fast the smaller you go so you may want to watch that your motor is not under powered, you may have to gear it down. sound like a fun project On 4/4/2013 7:40 AM, John Stewart wrote: Hmm - lots of very good thoughts and suggestions so far, obviously lots of out of the box thinkers here as expected. I do have two colleagues who are unabashed hoarders of stuff, so maybe I'll ask them about stepper motors. Ralph: -- Minimize network downtime and maximize team effectiveness. Reduce network management and security costs.Learn how to hire the most talented Cisco Certified professionals. Visit the Employer Resources Portal http://www.cisco.com/web/learning/employer_resources/index.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Equipment I just got for free.
the big old rusty CNC mill you posted pix of, thought that was what this thread was about On 3/27/2013 2:10 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: --- On Tue, 3/26/13, Stan sta...@telus.net wrote: From: Stan sta...@telus.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Equipment I just got for free. To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Tuesday, March 26, 2013, 10:07 PM how much is he asking for the unit? Which unit? -- Own the Future-Intelreg; Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013 Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest. Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes. Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Own the Future-Intelreg; Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013 Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest. Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes. Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Equipment I just got for free.
how much is he asking for the unit? -- Own the Future-Intelreg; Level Up Game Demo Contest 2013 Rise to greatness in Intel's independent game demo contest. Compete for recognition, cash, and the chance to get your game on Steam. $5K grand prize plus 10 genre and skill prizes. Submit your demo by 6/6/13. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel_levelupd2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Equipment I just got for free.
I would do the update, who knows if the old even works with a whole new update to the control system you know what you have and can update and upgrade at will old iron like that should never die unless broken by extreme abuse, like dropping it or running into it with a fork lift or something it need some TLC but it should be a good unit as for price $300 to $500 would be more than fair, as said scrap price would be close to that I know it need work but I would drop $500 on it if it was close to me, providing nothing major is broken or damaged, the rust should be a easy fix On 3/25/2013 7:16 AM, Matt Shaver wrote: On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 00:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm leaning more towards a full electronic update and selling the remaining bits of the old Anilam system. Those DC brush type servos are bloody expensive, the Baldor brand even moreso. Another thing making an update more attractive is I've read that those Fenner boards need tuning and tweaking because when they're off they make a high pitched whine. They look like Servo Dynamics amps or a close facsimile. The whine is normal, and annoying :) See: http://www.mattshaver.com/v2e3/index.htm As far as the price goes, $300 is basically scrap value, so not unreasonable. Thanks, Matt -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_mar ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I want to do 5 moves of lin axis X and rot axis B with out stopping
the code as requested, it started life as mach3 code and was converted to EMC. this is the G64 with no G93, I have a G64 and G93 version as well. it makes a spring, there are 5 sections to the spring and the 6th is the reverse to unwind the tension so it will slide off the form. yes I do expect it to stop when reversing, would be imposable not to stop while doing a reversal. % (ROTORY TABLE STEPPER MOUNT PROFILE.NC) ( MACH 3 - ENGLISH) (WED. 03/26/2008 04:17PM) G0 G20 G49 G40 G17 G80 G90 G64 G94 #100= [1050-270-27];NUMBER OF TIMES #200= 0; COUNT M0 o100 sub G90G0Y0 G90G0B0 G90G0X0Y0 G91 F1900 G1 X-0.03 B100 G1 X-0.01 B60 G1 X-.01 B500 G 1X-1 B3240;4680 G 1X-0.02 B530 G1 B-860 G94 G0G90X0 X0 G90G0B0 G90G0X0Y0B0 B0 #200=[#200+1] M68 E0 Q[#200] M0 o100 end sub o300 repeat [#100] o100 call o300 endrepeat M30 % On 12/9/2012 10:19 PM, Dave Caroline wrote: On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Stan sta...@telus.net wrote: I want to make 5 moves, all 5 have x moving and B rotating at the same time, and I want it to be one smooth move, no stopping like it does now. I have tried G64 and also using G93, still does stopped moves Show us the gcode A reversal of direction by definition has a momentary stop Dave Caroline any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] I want to do 5 moves of lin axis X and rot axis B with out stopping
the code with G64 and G93 I can see no difference running the 2 samples I posted % (ROTORY TABLE STEPPER MOUNT PROFILE.NC) ( MACH 3 - ENGLISH) (WED. 03/26/2008 04:17PM) ( T1 CENTER DRILL , DIAMETER = .5 , LENGTH = 5.) G0 G20 G49 G40 G17 G80 G90 G64 #100= [1050-270-27];NUMBER OF TIMES #200= 0; COUNT M0 ;M0 ;M0 o100 sub G90G0Y0 G90G0B0 G90G0X0Y0 G93 ;M0 F19 F100 G1G91X-0.03B100 F100 G1G91X-0.01B60 F100 G1G91X-.01B500 F100 G1G91X-1B3240;4680 F100 G1G91X-0.02B530 F100 G1G91B-860 ;M0 G94 G0G90X0 ;Z0.1 X0 ;G90G0Y0 G90G0B0 G90G0X0Y0B0 B0 #200=[#200+1] M68 E0 Q[#200] M0 ;M99 o100 end sub o300 repeat [#100] o100 call o300 endrepeat ;M98 P100 L#1 M30 % -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] I want to do 5 moves of lin axis X and rot axis B with out stopping
I want to make 5 moves, all 5 have x moving and B rotating at the same time, and I want it to be one smooth move, no stopping like it does now. I have tried G64 and also using G93, still does stopped moves any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Understanding the 5i25
Erik, I had similar problems with pncconf using the buildbot 2.5 branch until I updated LinuxCNC using the http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpdatingTo2.5 instructions. I do not know what is different, it just worked. Stan On Wed, 12 Apr 2012, Erik Friesen wrote: Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:06:30 -0400 From: Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Understanding the 5i25 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: caeuupiupy6r+aet8k-bgmylf5fdc+r1c2n9byu9n8ncp0rc...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 After getting started, something seems funny. In the pncconf test window, something is interfering with proper operation of the stepgen. It runs, but when it decides to stop, I have to back out of the window, and try again. When I run linuxcnc (2.6.0) when I try to move, it says joint 0 following error. I am not clear where to head in at here, I don't see anything to do with encoder setup anywhere. -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] How do I calculate leadscrew push/pull forces?
Don't forget to take into account the efficiency of a leadscrew, which I believe averages around 35%. In other words, 35% of the rotational torque available gets transformed to linear force. Stephen Wille Padnos wrote: The leadscrew diameter isn't important for the force calculation. The motor can output 200 ounces force at a one inch radius, as you said. For one revolution, the 200 ounces of force is applied over 2*pi inches of travel, but produces 0.2 inches of table motion. Just divide: 200 * (2*pi*r) / (0.2) = force in ounces =2000*pi, or about 6280 ounces force (close enough to 400 pounds). The units are ounces * (inches) / (inches), which is ounces since the lengths cancel out. - Steve - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] micro ATX with on-board video inside NEMA style enclosure
Greg, I mounted a mini-ITX motherboard in a NEMA enclosure. I simply sat the unpowered board on the internal mounting panel, marked the holes with a Sharpie, then drilled an tapped for 4-40 thread (I believe), which was the thread of the PCB standoffs I had. I didn't need to make a PCI card holder as I don't need any add-on cards for my application. And the onboard video on the mobo that I used seems to work fine. I've got a couple pictures on my site. Look for the Mill Enclosure image gallery under the title Micro Mill CNC Photos on the right hand side of the page. They're the last two pictures in that set. http://www.theblossers.net/index.php?section=15 Take care, Stan Greg Pettit wrote: Greetings, I want to start by thanking everyone for their hard work on developing and supporting EMC. What an awesome piece of software that is easy to setup and use. My mill, a Bridgeport series I, has been running now for several months without the first EMC problem. Of course there has been a few operator related errors. The problem I have is that even after sever months, my drives, computer, and power supplies are still sitting on a cart. So I thought I would clean things up by putting all the components in a NEMA style enclosure and mounting it to the base of the mill. Because I am only using the parallel port, I thought it would be nice if I found a micro ATX with on-board video to mount inside the enclosure like the following: BIOSTAR AM2VCOMB34S AMD Sempron 3400+ AM2 VIA K8M800 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138100 However, I understand that not all onboard video chips play well with RTAI. Does any one have any experience with on-board video? Anyone mounted an ATX motherboard in a NEMA enclsoure and fabricated a bracket for the PCI cards? Many Thanks, Greg - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stepper torque measurement article
Doh! Of course, a link to my site would help: http://www.theblossers.net/index.php?section=15 Stan Blosser wrote: I just posted a blog article on my site regarding my recent stepper torque measurement project. Not directly relating to EMC, but I felt it relevant enough to share here. :-) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stepper torque measurement article
I'm not an expert on AC servos (or servos at all for that matter) but I suppose the same tecnique could be used to measure torque on nearly any motor, but keep in mind it is an offline process. This is not something done directly by EMC or the motor controller. The setup for my measurements: The stepper motor mounted on a bar suspended several feet above the floor. A 1.5 diameter pulley mounted to the shaft. A string wraps around the pulley and goes down to a basket for holding weights. My method for measuring torque went like this: Set EMC to a very low jog rate. Initially about 1 inch/minute. Load a basket with with weight. Jog EMC so that it runs the stepper, which like a winch, lifts the basket. If everything works fine, jog in the other direction to return the basket to the floor. Continue to load the basket and jog until the stepper mis-steps once fully accelerated. Upon failure, note the weight and jog rate (which gives me the values for the table on my site). Remove some weight from the basket. Increase the jog rate, attempt to lift the basket, and continue increasing the jog rate until the stepper mis-steps. Upon failure, note the weight and last successful jog rate. Remove more weight and repeat the process. Like I said, this is an offline process though. It is meant to be a method for approximating certain design variables, rather than as feedback for an active system. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Can you measure torque on AC servo motor? Can I put that if torque exceed some certain level STOP machine or go to feed hold mode. It is very important because torque can directly show condition of cutter. If can stop machine when torque start increase I may or better will prevent break of cutter. I think in program need be include variable that limits maximum torque to axis. I am interesting in your work and let me know if it can be used with AC servomotors? Thank you aram Doh! Of course, a link to my site would help: http://www.theblossers.net/index.php?section=15 Stan Blosser wrote: I just posted a blog article on my site regarding my recent stepper torque measurement project. Not directly relating to EMC, but I felt it relevant enough to share here. :-) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Ball screws + error compensation
Dredging up a slightly old thread, but rather than start a new one... I'm in the design/planning stages of CNCing a Sieg X3 mill and will be using ball screws. At this point, I am planning to use Nook XPR screws as they have a lead error of .001 in/ft. The main reason being is that I do not have an accurate method (that I know of) to map a less accurate screw for error compensation in EMC2. If I did, I would likely be looking at Roton screws at .004 in/ft error. Regardless of the screws, I'll be using double nuts to adjust out the backlash. Does anyone know of a home shop class method to map a screw? Perhaps using a dial indicator and moving along an inch at a time. That sounds a bit tedious and prone to mistakes, but it's the only thing I can come up with off the top of my head. Also, I'm assuming EMC2's screw compensation interpolates between data points in the compensation file. Can anyone confirm this? If so, is it just a simple linear interpolation? Thanks, Stan Chris Radek wrote: On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 01:27:02PM -0600, Witek GB wrote: I want to add an EMC CNC controller to my bridgeport clone however, before I start, I was thinking of retrofitting and installing ball screws. I think I have too much backlash in what I have now. I have a taiwanese 10 x 50 bridgeport cone with a M cast into the main casting. So who sells zero backlash ball scres that are atleast as accruate as +/- 0.0005/Ft and how much would the setup cost me if I wanted to put it on my mill? Thanks WGB Low backlash is critical for good operation on a CNC, but if you are using EMC2 and have a way to measure it, the accuracy of the screw doesn't matter much since you can use screw compensation. Chris - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] AXIS manual spindle control
Please excuse me if this is the wrong place to ask but... Is there a way to change the increment used when manually increasing or decreasing (F12 F11) spindle speed in AXIS? In other words, if I want my spindle set to 1000 RPM I have to hold down F12 for quite some time to get it up to speed. If there were a scale value of some sorts that I could set to 100, then I'd hit F12 ten times and be done. I've searched the documentation and couldn't find anything relevant. Also, an oddity I've discovered now that my spindle is under EMC's control is that when I hit the minus key the spindle stops. For instance, when in MDI mode, I enter the commands: 1: M3S1000 2: G1X0.5Y-0.75 The spindle stops spinning when I hit the minus key following Y on line 2. I'm using EMC 2.1.7 on Ubuntu 6.06, installed from the repositories. Thanks in advance, Stan - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] pyVCP buttons
Is there a way to set the height and width of button widgets in pyVCP? I'm trying to setup a VCP alongside AXIS for use with my touchscreen monitor and, for best results, I need the buttons to be on the large side. Thanks in advance! - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] pyVCP buttons
Nope, not in 2.1.6. :-( Anders Wallin wrote: ... This could work (but perhaps only on EMC2.2?) button height40/height width50/width /button - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] HOME Sensors
The home switches I'm using are from Automation Direct (www.automationdirect.com) and they're cheap too, at $13.75 ea. Just go to their site and search for P/N AAP2T14Z11. They offer them with different actuators (plunger, roller, lever, etc.), and claim a repeat accuracy of 0.01mm at 1 million operations. RogerN wrote: McMaster Carr has some ultra precision limit switches with 1 micron actuation. http://www.mcmaster.com/ Go to their online catalog page 861 at the bottom of the page. Or search for ultra precision limit switch. They're expensive but it's nice to know they exist if you can justify the price. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] VIA based Mini-ITX
Has anyone ever used one of these little guys to run EMC? I'm mainly only concerned about the floating point math necessary to run EMC. I'm currently running on a PIII 1GHz with zero problems (at least on the PC side of things). I'm considering going in a different directions with the controls and one of these would fit perfectly into my design ideas. Specifically, I'm looking at: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813153053 The plan is to add parallel ports through the addition of a PCI card, and boot from a CF card plugged into a CF-to-IDE adapter. Any thoughts would be appreciated! - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
