Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Don Stanley dstanley1...@gmail.com wrote: It all depends on what you are used to in that regard. M$ is no slouch when it comes to changing the look, feel, and workability of the desktop. Look at the progression from Win98, to ME, to XP, to 2000, to Vista, to Win 7 and now Win 8. It's not just from the administrative point of view, it's from the user point of view. I like my applications to run, to be secure, and have a safe, secure OS wrapping the entire thing. Being able to recompile or load updated apps so that they have the correct hooks into the OS so I don't have to worry about a piece of legacy software that I like either not compatible with, or works but not secure within the new OS is just somewhere I really don't want to go. And that's from both an administrative (which I do for a living) and a user (which I'm also) point of view. Mark For me it is simple; If you want job security and a big system budget go with M$. If you want System security and a smaller job, go with Linux. Dunno about the job security bit. I've been a Unix system and network admin for close to 20 years now. ;-) Mark -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote: Le 18/09/2012 11:23, Mark Wendt a écrit : yann Well, that's kinda where M$ ran into a lot of security problems, trying to support legacy applications. I'd much rather take the Unix/Linux approach, and have to recompile and rebuild, than spend weeks hardening a system just to keep a 15 year old piece of software working like it used to. Mark well, from an admistrator point of view, I of course agree with you. But from the lambda user point of view, this is more another difficulty to turn to linux than something good, I think. Add this + the constant changes in desktop environnement like the one we where talking about, and you got something quite repulsive for newbies. It all depends on what you are used to in that regard. M$ is no slouch when it comes to changing the look, feel, and workability of the desktop. Look at the progression from Win98, to ME, to XP, to 2000, to Vista, to Win 7 and now Win 8. It's not just from the administrative point of view, it's from the user point of view. I like my applications to run, to be secure, and have a safe, secure OS wrapping the entire thing. Being able to recompile or load updated apps so that they have the correct hooks into the OS so I don't have to worry about a piece of legacy software that I like either not compatible with, or works but not secure within the new OS is just somewhere I really don't want to go. And that's from both an administrative (which I do for a living) and a user (which I'm also) point of view. Mark -- Got visibility? Most devs has no idea what their production app looks like. Find out how fast your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219671;13503038;y? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users For me it is simple; If you want job security and a big system budget go with M$. If you want System security and a smaller job, go with Linux. -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Le 18/09/2012 11:23, Mark Wendt a écrit : On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:07 PM, yann jautard brico...@free.fr wrote: In the linux world, when a switch like that happens (for a user interface or for a system library), the new version is always still something I personally consider as a beta version, without most of the must have features. So you just CANNOT be used to the new one, as it is just not possible to do very simple things like sorting programs by categories ans create a launcher on the desktop... And also the old apps cannot be used with the new system, or you need to recompile them for yourself, and solve a large amount of problems with the new libraries. And be happy if you can solve them :/ just my two cents... yann Well, that's kinda where M$ ran into a lot of security problems, trying to support legacy applications. I'd much rather take the Unix/Linux approach, and have to recompile and rebuild, than spend weeks hardening a system just to keep a 15 year old piece of software working like it used to. Mark well, from an admistrator point of view, I of course agree with you. But from the lambda user point of view, this is more another difficulty to turn to linux than something good, I think. Add this + the constant changes in desktop environnement like the one we where talking about, and you got something quite repulsive for newbies. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Got visibility? Most devs has no idea what their production app looks like. Find out how fast your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219671;13503038;y? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Le 18/09/2012 11:23, Mark Wendt a écrit : yann Well, that's kinda where M$ ran into a lot of security problems, trying to support legacy applications. I'd much rather take the Unix/Linux approach, and have to recompile and rebuild, than spend weeks hardening a system just to keep a 15 year old piece of software working like it used to. Mark well, from an admistrator point of view, I of course agree with you. But from the lambda user point of view, this is more another difficulty to turn to linux than something good, I think. Add this + the constant changes in desktop environnement like the one we where talking about, and you got something quite repulsive for newbies. It all depends on what you are used to in that regard. M$ is no slouch when it comes to changing the look, feel, and workability of the desktop. Look at the progression from Win98, to ME, to XP, to 2000, to Vista, to Win 7 and now Win 8. It's not just from the administrative point of view, it's from the user point of view. I like my applications to run, to be secure, and have a safe, secure OS wrapping the entire thing. Being able to recompile or load updated apps so that they have the correct hooks into the OS so I don't have to worry about a piece of legacy software that I like either not compatible with, or works but not secure within the new OS is just somewhere I really don't want to go. And that's from both an administrative (which I do for a living) and a user (which I'm also) point of view. Mark -- Got visibility? Most devs has no idea what their production app looks like. Find out how fast your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219671;13503038;y? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:07 PM, yann jautard brico...@free.fr wrote: In the linux world, when a switch like that happens (for a user interface or for a system library), the new version is always still something I personally consider as a beta version, without most of the must have features. So you just CANNOT be used to the new one, as it is just not possible to do very simple things like sorting programs by categories ans create a launcher on the desktop... And also the old apps cannot be used with the new system, or you need to recompile them for yourself, and solve a large amount of problems with the new libraries. And be happy if you can solve them :/ just my two cents... yann Well, that's kinda where M$ ran into a lot of security problems, trying to support legacy applications. I'd much rather take the Unix/Linux approach, and have to recompile and rebuild, than spend weeks hardening a system just to keep a 15 year old piece of software working like it used to. Mark -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Greetings -Original Message- From: Joseph Chiu [mailto:joec...@joechiu.com] Not sure about the tablet side of the equation -- but if you want to give exploded diagrams, you might consider 3D PDFs which can be opened by Adobe Reader. But beware 3D PDFs have been dropped in Acrobat X John Prentice -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On 9/18/2012 4:03 PM, John Prentice (FS) wrote: Greetings -Original Message- From: Joseph Chiu [mailto:joec...@joechiu.com] Not sure about the tablet side of the equation -- but if you want to give exploded diagrams, you might consider 3D PDFs which can be opened by Adobe Reader. But beware 3D PDFs have been dropped in Acrobat X John Prentice Well, the Adobe effort to include 3D information moved forward along three paths in the early- to mid-2000s. - The compound PDF file structure required modification to allow inclusion of so-called Universal 3D datasets (a format Adobe got from elsewhere), which when independent files were usually given the .u3d suffix. They've also included PRC data (not something I know much about). - The PDF file structure required tweaking to allow links between the 3D data and other data in a compound PDF file such as 2D and text objects.. - There had to be Adobe software products (sell-able products, by the way) that made it possible for us mere mortals make this all useful in our work. I suspect the first Adobe reader that could display and manipulate u3d data was accomplished by cobbling together Adobe and third-party software and I suspect the first Adobe Acrobat to include 3D capability (version 9?) was too. brag on My group was one of the very first to demonstrate that one could embed a 3D object into the new PDF structures and use it downstream, back when the toolchains were still rather fragmented. I processed an AISC steel structure model that Bob Lipman in my group had developed for an international data exchange standardization effort---called CIMSteel---in which the AISC represented the USA, creating first a .u3d file and then embedding it properly, and posting instructions so the rest of the steel design and fabrication members of the standardization group could use the technique. No biggie, but it seemed important at the time. brag off My thought back then was that Adobe's strategic plan to own the engineering-, construction-, and manufacturing-documentation market wasn't going to hold up, but I never made money selling anything so what did I know:-) They were being urged on by certain CAD software houses who wanted to head off certain other CAD software houses from owning this same market with the introduction of other proprietary formats and tools. No names please. Since that time, of course, there has been an explosion of formats, tools, and standards to support collaborative engineering and, indeed, entire product/project life-cycle work, shredding any such strategic plan. So far as I know, the current PDF specification still allows for inclusion of 3D data and still allows for linkage between different types of data in different PDF objects. I see no reason for that to change. However, within one release cycle, Adobe appears to have stopped development of the software components that process 3D data from different sources into pdf files. Look instead for products from tetra4D http://www.tetra4d.com/3D-PDF Nobody I was working with at the time was interested* in screens the sizes we see in today's phones and tablets, but I suspect this position has changed for three reasons: 1) the vast reduction in hardware prices in less than a decade; they are no longer budget-busters; 1) growing familiarity with the hardware platforms; many already have them for other reasons and increasingly expect to be able to do anything and everything with them; and 3) the user interfaces keep getting better. I've even seen electronic redlining and field annotation being done on a small screen, but it's not a game for my sore eyes and fumble fingers. Regards, Kent *the construction industry, for example, routinely works with ANSI Arch-E (roughly ISO A0) size drawings, and the ship builders wanted even bigger. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Kent; my brag ... I processed an AISC steel structure model that Bob Lipman in my group had developed for an international data exchange standardization effort-- I know Bob Lipman, back when I was doing lots with the Web3D Consortium. Very nice, quiet man, and I always found his company a pleasure. Putting my 3D software into the PDF reader was something that was requested, but there are just too many hours in the day. Getting it to work as a browser plugin, cross platform, was more than enough of a pain, especially when the browser wars were at their peak. brag off Bob made the VRML Plugin Detector, which was recognized as one of the standard VRML/X3D tests for HTML browsers with a VRML/X3D plugin. 3D on the web is an interesting subject; for a little while I was a representative of the Web3D Consortium for the HTML5 Working Group. It was certainly an interesting time, but not one that I'm eager to repeat. The open source VRML/X3D browser that I managed was the largest open source project, and the longest running open source project, managed by the Canadian Federal Government. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, getting traction internally for this set of projects was difficult, so, although the work and people interesting, I'm glad to not be involved in these groups officially any more. One of my colleagues (and, competitors) in the X3D environment is now technical director of Shapeways, so the world is indeed a small place. Although I was paid to write/manage this software by the Canadian Government, if I *did* have $0.50c for every download, my workshop would be a lot larger and more impressive than it is now! 8-) Another John Stewart. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 10:23 PM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote: I am worried about both. I cannot upgrade any of my 10.04 boxes due to the mess with 12.04. In addition, I am afraid that Linux will soon lose enough developers to become a wasteland. i Interesting. I've been using 12.04 since it was a beta here on this machine at work, and only had some minor problems with the video driver (AMD Catalyst) that got worked out pretty quickly. I run a dual monitor setup, and the problems mainly centered on Xinerama. Seems do be working just dandy now. Yeah, the desktop took some getting used to, but I kinda like it now. Mark -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Mark Wendt wrote: Yeah, the desktop took some getting used to, but I kinda like it now. Gnome classic works well ;) And I can even get the task bar back on the bottom of the monitor where personally I need it. Getting the monitors working when they are not directly plugged in is still something of a problem though. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:19 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Mark Wendt wrote: Yeah, the desktop took some getting used to, but I kinda like it now. Gnome classic works well ;) And I can even get the task bar back on the bottom of the monitor where personally I need it. Getting the monitors working when they are not directly plugged in is still something of a problem though. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Lester, Generally, I've found monitors tend to work much better when they're plugged in... VBSEG Mark -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Mark Wendt wrote: Getting the monitors working when they are not directly plugged in is still something of a problem though. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Lester, Generally, I've found monitors tend to work much better when they're plugged in... VBSEG The problem here is 'directly' ... Many of my machines are remotely managed, so while I have a rack stack in the garage, the monitors and keyboard are in the comfort of the office ;) Some machines do not have monitors actually plugged in, and worked perfectly in the past via VNC, but now need a 'dongle' plugged in to stop the 'desktop' being switched off. The reverse problem here happened with the Intel ITX boards which I've mentioned in the past. If the monitor is too high a resolution it can confuse things as much as not actually having one plugged in :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:52 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Mark Wendt wrote: Getting the monitors working when they are not directly plugged in is still something of a problem though. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Lester, Generally, I've found monitors tend to work much better when they're plugged in... VBSEG The problem here is 'directly' ... Many of my machines are remotely managed, so while I have a rack stack in the garage, the monitors and keyboard are in the comfort of the office ;) Some machines do not have monitors actually plugged in, and worked perfectly in the past via VNC, but now need a 'dongle' plugged in to stop the 'desktop' being switched off. The reverse problem here happened with the Intel ITX boards which I've mentioned in the past. If the monitor is too high a resolution it can confuse things as much as not actually having one plugged in :( -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Lester, Yah, I figgered that. I was just teasing a bit. ;-) Fun stuff, ain't it? Mark -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Mark Wendt wrote: Yah, I figgered that. I was just teasing a bit.;-) Fun stuff, ain't it? :) rant What really pigs me off here is that XP is supposed to be getting 'security fixes' only, but is NOW giving the same problem. There are perfectly good reasons for a lot of what we do, but because it does not fit is someone's view of how THEY think things should work we have to bend to that view! KDE4 and Gnome3 are a case in point. Technically absolutely no reason that a 'classic' - 'non-animated' desktop should not be provided but because they want to force us to change the political decision is to make it as difficult as possible. THAT takes more time and effort than simply providing the facility? /rant Anyway ... my current Gnome3 setup is is working nicely as a classic desktop and does everything I want, how I want it to work ... and I know I'm not alone in wanting to maintain that :) Even Linus has switched to a 'classic' alternative ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/05/linus_slams_gnome_three/ -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 6:32 AM, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: Mark Wendt wrote: Yah, I figgered that. I was just teasing a bit.;-) Fun stuff, ain't it? :) rant What really pigs me off here is that XP is supposed to be getting 'security fixes' only, but is NOW giving the same problem. There are perfectly good reasons for a lot of what we do, but because it does not fit is someone's view of how THEY think things should work we have to bend to that view! KDE4 and Gnome3 are a case in point. Technically absolutely no reason that a 'classic' - 'non-animated' desktop should not be provided but because they want to force us to change the political decision is to make it as difficult as possible. THAT takes more time and effort than simply providing the facility? /rant Anyway ... my current Gnome3 setup is is working nicely as a classic desktop and does everything I want, how I want it to work ... and I know I'm not alone in wanting to maintain that :) Even Linus has switched to a 'classic' alternative ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/05/linus_slams_gnome_three/ -- Lester Caine - G8HFL Marvelous rant! Feels good to get that kinda stuff outta your system, doesn't it? ;-) Mark -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Mark Wendt wrote: Marvelous rant! Feels good to get that kinda stuff outta your system, doesn't it?;-) And I've had something of a good weekend as well, as I now have a framework for my web hosting for the next few years ... a clean machine install and everything I need in their current versions is up and working! -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On 9/17/2012 6:32 AM, Lester Caine wrote: There are perfectly good reasons for a lot of what we do, but because it does not fit is someone's view of how THEY think things should work we have to bend to that view! KDE4 and Gnome3 are a case in point. Technically absolutely no reason that a 'classic' - 'non-animated' desktop should not be provided but because they want to force us to change the political decision is to make it as difficult as possible. Lester: Not knowing the team developers I can't rule out malevolence but not fitting into their view seems more likely a matter of indifference on their part. In an open-source world, it's easy to strike the attitude well, if you don't like what we are doing, do it yourself. In other parts of the Linux biosphere this hasn't been such a bad thing but in the matter of graphical desktop environments, the underlying complexities and the inter-dependencies with applications are so great that it is practically infeasible for every person to roll their own. Mr. Goodbar sez keep on truckin'. Regards, Kent -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 9/17/2012 6:12 AM, Kent A. Reed wrote: In other parts of the Linux biosphere this hasn't been such a bad thing but in the matter of graphical desktop environments, the underlying complexities and the inter-dependencies with applications are so great that it is practically infeasible for every person to roll their own. One of the reasons I like Debian is because they support just about everything and generally don't force choices on you. If you want a different gui environment, just install it instead of the gnome default. Setting desktop=whatever when installing works for at least kde, xfce, and lxde, and just about anything can be installed manually once you get a minimal system running. I'm currently running KDE on the LinuxCNC system I'm trying to get working with my 3D printer, XFCE on a netbook, and LXDE on the Pi. - -- Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlBXLccACgkQLywbqEHdNFxu4wCdHV5zvZJC9TDQD8MgMC68KzOT atcAoJezVGFSaD72bdc/t4NHPhqtgudF =Fndb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
I have been using both Fedora and Ubuntu, and the desktop decisions that they have forced on us are really annoying. Of course, Windows has done the same thing. You are definitely removed from the file system more than I like. On Ubuntu 12.04, I am using the 2d desktop, which does improve the experience a little. The sad part is this will probably further divide the developer community by spawning a Gnome-2 clone. Eric On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 9/17/2012 6:12 AM, Kent A. Reed wrote: In other parts of the Linux biosphere this hasn't been such a bad thing but in the matter of graphical desktop environments, the underlying complexities and the inter-dependencies with applications are so great that it is practically infeasible for every person to roll their own. One of the reasons I like Debian is because they support just about everything and generally don't force choices on you. If you want a different gui environment, just install it instead of the gnome default. Setting desktop=whatever when installing works for at least kde, xfce, and lxde, and just about anything can be installed manually once you get a minimal system running. I'm currently running KDE on the LinuxCNC system I'm trying to get working with my 3D printer, XFCE on a netbook, and LXDE on the Pi. - -- Charles Steinkuehler char...@steinkuehler.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAlBXLccACgkQLywbqEHdNFxu4wCdHV5zvZJC9TDQD8MgMC68KzOT atcAoJezVGFSaD72bdc/t4NHPhqtgudF =Fndb -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
I am afraid I gave on on Gnome a long time ago. KDE works quite well if you turn off some of the more silly animation stuff such as wobbly windows. Les On 17/09/2012 15:21, Eric Keller wrote: I have been using both Fedora and Ubuntu, and the desktop decisions that they have forced on us are really annoying. Of course, Windows has done the same thing. You are definitely removed from the file system more than I like. On Ubuntu 12.04, I am using the 2d desktop, which does improve the experience a little. The sad part is this will probably further divide the developer community by spawning a Gnome-2 clone. Eric -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
I have started using XFCE since ubuntu 12.04 came out, and it find it quite usable. Easiest way to get it is Xubuntu. Linux Mint has and is actively developing Cinnamon and MATE that are very nice options. I suspect that Gnome3 will die, and Unity may wind up adding back features that make it more usable for the desktop. Some of the features they have are pretty nice for small screens. On 09/17/2012 10:15 AM, Les Newell wrote: I am afraid I gave on on Gnome a long time ago. KDE works quite well if you turn off some of the more silly animation stuff such as wobbly windows. Les On 17/09/2012 15:21, Eric Keller wrote: I have been using both Fedora and Ubuntu, and the desktop decisions that they have forced on us are really annoying. Of course, Windows has done the same thing. You are definitely removed from the file system more than I like. On Ubuntu 12.04, I am using the 2d desktop, which does improve the experience a little. The sad part is this will probably further divide the developer community by spawning a Gnome-2 clone. Eric -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Not sure about the tablet side of the equation -- but if you want to give exploded diagrams, you might consider 3D PDFs which can be opened by Adobe Reader. My version of Alibre Design Professional, for example, supports exploded diagrams. I think the licensing may have changed around, so I'm not sure if you now need the Expert edition or not. It might be worth checking your CAD software to see what 3D pdf support you have. On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 5:36 AM, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.comwrote: 2012/9/16 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 16 September 2012 05:07, John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca wrote: Disagree. Have an Android app. that displays VRML/X3D and STL files. CAD on a 4 touchscreen doesn't sound like much fun to me, though. But then I guess we got used to mice, and I rather suspect that tables worked better. Little OT of introduction... My current machine build has 1495 parts in CAD model. This number does not include bolts, washers, nuts. Fortunately I was assembling the machine myself, so I knew where goes each part and I could explain that to my first employee, but I also started thinking of best ways, how somebody else could easily assemble a machine designed by me or any other person. That is why there are assembly drawings, but they are so time-consuming to prepare, so I was thinking, how to make this whole process more efficient. My idea was to use a tablet with some viewer software to display assembly model. The person, who is putting the machine together would be able to view the model and assemble everything together. I have yet to figure out, how to specify some critical assembly dimensions right in the assembly model. I use SolidEdge for my 3D modeling and I did little search to find, if there are some solutions to view its models in Android and/or ipad. There actually are some... There is just one problem - cost. SolidEdge plugin costs somewhere close to 1K $, so I dropped that idea. Plugin for SolidWorks was 3x cheaper, but I do not like that app, because it is missing some very basic features, like putting external thread on a cylindrical surface. It offers to put cosmetic thread so that the part looks as if there was a thread, but it is not really recognized that way, when creating a drawing for the part. In brief what I wanted to say is that tablets do have a good potential in my eyes also in machine tool field. 4 screen might not be the most convenient way to view some parts, but 10 screen would be just great. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 9:20 PM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote: I think that the Linux world is in big trouble. Despite the multitudes of distros and projects, there is not a viable, relatively bug free and usable desktop available among the currently supported projects (in the post-Gnome 2 world). Gnome 3, Unity, and pretty much everything else sucks, is unusable and full of bugs, crashing wobbly windows and missing functionality. Surely you exaggerate. I run Fedora 16 and 17, with Gnome 3 and all, and my current uptime is 'up 73 days, 22:42'. I do a bunch of development work: large complies, working with weird USB devices, etc. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On 16 September 2012 05:07, John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca wrote: Disagree. Have an Android app. that displays VRML/X3D and STL files. CAD on a 4 touchscreen doesn't sound like much fun to me, though. But then I guess we got used to mice, and I rather suspect that tables worked better. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
I am less worried my analytics show a much larger linux, 7.61%, user base than yours. I think site type and audience makes a difference, mine is targeting people who repair their own equipment and are therefore more technical. http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/reports/Analytics_OS_20120212-20120914.pdf Dave Caroline -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 11:26 PM, Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com wrote: If I ever find myself with a lot of money, I may sponsor a project to create a complete Linux desktop. Of course, this is unlikely to materialize. But this is my dream. i Want to retire as a millionaire in the Linux world? Start with $3 million and... ;-) Mark -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
2012/9/16 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 16 September 2012 05:07, John Stewart alex.stew...@crc.ca wrote: Disagree. Have an Android app. that displays VRML/X3D and STL files. CAD on a 4 touchscreen doesn't sound like much fun to me, though. But then I guess we got used to mice, and I rather suspect that tables worked better. Little OT of introduction... My current machine build has 1495 parts in CAD model. This number does not include bolts, washers, nuts. Fortunately I was assembling the machine myself, so I knew where goes each part and I could explain that to my first employee, but I also started thinking of best ways, how somebody else could easily assemble a machine designed by me or any other person. That is why there are assembly drawings, but they are so time-consuming to prepare, so I was thinking, how to make this whole process more efficient. My idea was to use a tablet with some viewer software to display assembly model. The person, who is putting the machine together would be able to view the model and assemble everything together. I have yet to figure out, how to specify some critical assembly dimensions right in the assembly model. I use SolidEdge for my 3D modeling and I did little search to find, if there are some solutions to view its models in Android and/or ipad. There actually are some... There is just one problem - cost. SolidEdge plugin costs somewhere close to 1K $, so I dropped that idea. Plugin for SolidWorks was 3x cheaper, but I do not like that app, because it is missing some very basic features, like putting external thread on a cylindrical surface. It offers to put cosmetic thread so that the part looks as if there was a thread, but it is not really recognized that way, when creating a drawing for the part. In brief what I wanted to say is that tablets do have a good potential in my eyes also in machine tool field. 4 screen might not be the most convenient way to view some parts, but 10 screen would be just great. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Igor Chudov wrote: I find Unity to be majorly lacking and unsuitable for real work. I feel lucky that I have a fvwm2 configuration that works great for me. I am very disturbed by the existing course of events. If Linux desktop dies, everything else (such as servers) will follow in a few years. I am making half of my living from Linux based websites and this prospects freaks me out. If you are worried about general users moving away from Linux, there may be some concern. If you are worried about not being able to have a workable Linux system for your own use, I think you are really worrying too much. And check this out. http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html A couple points I agree with. Sound IS a mess, at least on the versions I still use a lot. But, I have some odd stuff like Audacity and FlightGear, and they seem to really have conflicts with what sound system they prefer. Network Manager does have problems unless you just want a DHCP client. Yes, many packages are offered with precompiled binaries that will only install on a few systems. I am not concerned with games, and they are not EVER likely to be as available as for Windows, and maybe that is GOOD! Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 12:51 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Igor Chudov wrote: I find Unity to be majorly lacking and unsuitable for real work. I feel lucky that I have a fvwm2 configuration that works great for me. I am very disturbed by the existing course of events. If Linux desktop dies, everything else (such as servers) will follow in a few years. I am making half of my living from Linux based websites and this prospects freaks me out. If you are worried about general users moving away from Linux, there may be some concern. If you are worried about not being able to have a workable Linux system for your own use, I think you are really worrying too much. I am worried about both. I cannot upgrade any of my 10.04 boxes due to the mess with 12.04. In addition, I am afraid that Linux will soon lose enough developers to become a wasteland. i And check this out. http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html A couple points I agree with. Sound IS a mess, at least on the versions I still use a lot. But, I have some odd stuff like Audacity and FlightGear, and they seem to really have conflicts with what sound system they prefer. Network Manager does have problems unless you just want a DHCP client. Yes, many packages are offered with precompiled binaries that will only install on a few systems. I am not concerned with games, and they are not EVER likely to be as available as for Windows, and maybe that is GOOD! Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sat, 15 Sep 2012, Mark Cason wrote: Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 00:15:04 -0500 From: Mark Cason farmerboy1...@yahoo.com To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months. Just found this: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/intel-declares-clover-trail-atom-processor-a-no-linux-zone/ A sad day for Linux... -- -Mark Ne M'oubliez ---Family Motto Hope for the best, plan for the worst ---Personal Motto Probably not terribly relevant to LinuxCNC since this is a mobile processor aimed at cell phones and tablets (Medfield) The current generation Atoms used in desktops MBs (Cedar View) have their own problems with linux and accelerated video because of the unsupported PowerVR graphics, but the good news is that the next generation of desktop/embedded Atoms (Valley view) due sometime in 2013 will use Intel graphics that have a open source driver. -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Mark Cason wrote: Just found this: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/intel-declares-clover-trail-atom-processor-a-no-linux-zone/ A sad day for Linux... And a good one for VIA ... http://www.viaembedded.com/en/products/processors/1830/1/VIA_QuadCore_E-Series.html Except they have everything but a pigging parallel port on the ITX boards ... BUT the M910 quotes 2 x Digital I/O pin headers (GPI x 8, GPO x 8) and EIGHT serial ports (why?) However as with all of them, the PCI riser runs a paralell port card without any problems :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
I read a similar news article, and I think that it is a big misunderstanding. i On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 12:15 AM, Mark Cason farmerboy1...@yahoo.comwrote: Just found this: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/intel-declares-clover-trail-atom-processor-a-no-linux-zone/ A sad day for Linux... -- -Mark Ne M'oubliez ---Family Motto Hope for the best, plan for the worst ---Personal Motto -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Przemek Klosowski przemek.klosow...@gmail.com wrote: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/intel-declares-clover-trail-atom-processor-a-no-linux-zone/ The likely alternative is it'll be a proprietary curiosity that it'll peter out in the marketplace. Will they ever learn... I don't see the windows phone and windows tablet as a viable market, so Intel just wasted their time. I understand Microsoft fires their lowest 10 percent of their employees every year, and Intel is widely rumored to fire anyone over 50, so these two corporate dinosaurs deserve each other. Eric -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On 9/15/2012 11:13 AM, Eric Keller wrote: On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 1:26 AM, Przemek Klosowski przemek.klosow...@gmail.com wrote: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/intel-declares-clover-trail-atom-processor-a-no-linux-zone/ The likely alternative is it'll be a proprietary curiosity that it'll peter out in the marketplace. Will they ever learn... I don't see the windows phone and windows tablet as a viable market, so Intel just wasted their time. I understand Microsoft fires their lowest 10 percent of their employees every year, and Intel is widely rumored to fire anyone over 50, so these two corporate dinosaurs deserve each other. Eric Note that AMD made a similar announcement regarding its Hondo processor appearing only in Windows8 tablets at launch. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_itempx=MTE4NTY It's a weird and wonderful world we techies live in. Regards, Kent -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
I want to mention something that is analogous to the old naked king adage. I think that the Linux world is in big trouble. Despite the multitudes of distros and projects, there is not a viable, relatively bug free and usable desktop available among the currently supported projects (in the post-Gnome 2 world). Gnome 3, Unity, and pretty much everything else sucks, is unusable and full of bugs, crashing wobbly windows and missing functionality. That stuff is a joke. Just try Ubuntu 12.04 if you do not believe me. I have been a Linux user since 1995 and I am, frankly, frightened by what is happening. In the last year, the percentage of users of my website algebra.com who use Linux, dropped from 1 percent to about 1/2 percent. If Linux desktop is abandoned, then linux will be for a while relegated to the embedded world, and then everyone will forget about it. Our hard won software freedoms, abilities to do fun stuff, etc, will then wane into oblivion. i Frightened in Illinois -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Igor Chudov wrote: I think that the Linux world is in big trouble. Despite the multitudes of distros and projects, there is not a viable, relatively bug free and usable desktop available among the currently supported projects (in the post-Gnome 2 world). Gnome 3, Unity, and pretty much everything else sucks, is unusable and full of bugs, crashing wobbly windows and missing functionality. That stuff is a joke. Just try Ubuntu 12.04 if you do not believe me. Well, there are good reasons for users to not run the bleeding edge software, especially for work that counts. I'm probably one of the worst, still running CentOs 5.2 on my desktop at work and home. These are really out of date kernels, and I run into compatibility and update issues often. But, I run Linux, VmWare and Win 2Kpro together on these systems, with a fair number of hard to install and configure CAD packages, so I HATE to go through the update hassle. It usually takes a minimum of 2 weeks to get everything back to running properly, even after just a hard drive replacement. (This system has been up 52 days which is no record, my system at work was up over 400 days once. No UPS, either.) I've set up a couple Beagle Board systems with a pretty recent kernel and it seems to work fine, although I normally run it via ssh login rather than a kbd, mouse and monitor directly on the system. But, I have also run Ubuntu 10.04, and it seems to work fine for general-purpose use. So, I wonder if 12.04 will get cleaned up over time and become reliable as well. Unfortunately, they do seem to be following M$'s lead and putting in all sorts of flash and crap that isn't needed and can cause bugs. Also, if running on newer hardware, you may need a BIOS update for the motherboard. A number of Atom board users have reported strange problems and rotten RT latency was fixed by updating the motherboard BIOS. Jon -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sat, 15 Sep 2012, Igor Chudov wrote: Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 20:20:22 -0500 From: Igor Chudov ichu...@gmail.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months. I want to mention something that is analogous to the old naked king adage. I think that the Linux world is in big trouble. Despite the multitudes of distros and projects, there is not a viable, relatively bug free and usable desktop available among the currently supported projects (in the post-Gnome 2 world). Gnome 3, Unity, and pretty much everything else sucks, is unusable and full of bugs, crashing wobbly windows and missing functionality. That stuff is a joke. Just try Ubuntu 12.04 if you do not believe me. I have been a Linux user since 1995 and I am, frankly, frightened by what is happening. In the last year, the percentage of users of my website algebra.com who use Linux, dropped from 1 percent to about 1/2 percent. If Linux desktop is abandoned, then linux will be for a while relegated to the embedded world, and then everyone will forget about it. Our hard won software freedoms, abilities to do fun stuff, etc, will then wane into oblivion. i Frightened in Illinois Hmm Ive been using Ubuntu 12.04 at home for about 6 months now and I find it very nice. I have not had a single crash, and pretty much everything works as expected. (Unity takes some getting used to and unity friendly apps for the best user interface consistancy) As far as waning goes, the desktop itself is waning... A what it the most popular mobile OS? Well Android (based on Linux) of course... Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: Hmm Ive been using Ubuntu 12.04 at home for about 6 months now and I find it very nice. I have not had a single crash, and pretty much everything works as expected. (Unity takes some getting used to and unity friendly apps for the best user interface consistancy) As far as waning goes, the desktop itself is waning... I think your point about the desktop is well taken, and somewhat problematic for people that like to do things with computers. I think that mobile devices are very good for checking email, but that's as close to work as you can get. I upgraded from 10.04 to 12.04 and it got rid of my constant crashes. I was thinking about getting a new computer, but apparently it was some misconfiguration. I do find the new interface a little annoying Eric -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Eric Keller eekel...@psu.edu wrote: On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: Hmm Ive been using Ubuntu 12.04 at home for about 6 months now and I find it very nice. I have not had a single crash, and pretty much everything works as expected. (Unity takes some getting used to and unity friendly apps for the best user interface consistancy) As far as waning goes, the desktop itself is waning... I think your point about the desktop is well taken, and somewhat problematic for people that like to do things with computers. I think that mobile devices are very good for checking email, but that's as close to work as you can get. I upgraded from 10.04 to 12.04 and it got rid of my constant crashes. I was thinking about getting a new computer, but apparently it was some misconfiguration. I do find the new interface a little annoying Despite owning a warehouse nowadays, and doing various industrial related projects, I still find myself doing a fair amount of computer work, meaning creating computer programs and content. I find Unity to be majorly lacking and unsuitable for real work. I feel lucky that I have a fvwm2 configuration that works great for me. I am very disturbed by the existing course of events. If Linux desktop dies, everything else (such as servers) will follow in a few years. I am making half of my living from Linux based websites and this prospects freaks me out. And check this out. http://linuxfonts.narod.ru/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html If I ever find myself with a lot of money, I may sponsor a project to create a complete Linux desktop. Of course, this is unlikely to materialize. But this is my dream. i Eric -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
On 09/15/2012 01:26 AM, Przemek Klosowski wrote: If there will be a well-designed and/or inexpensive hardware with this chipset, it'll likely get reverse-engineered. Years ago I worked on an in-circuit test for a device called a bus monitor chip. It was supposed to be able to monitor memory and IO read and writes, and store a count of accesses to a certain address, or just look for and access in a certain range, and store it and generate an interrupt. The chip hadn't gotten to the point where it had full data sheet functionality, but in theory would have made watching to see how the other operating system did things a lot easier. These days, I would guess that all that could be put into an FPGA and designed into a PCIX card. Could probably even have a serial port to a terminal to let another computer log all the interesting memory accesses. If it came time to pull the gloves off, I'd bet there are plenty of Linux guys (and girls) out there who would be able to figure out the hardware that way. Intel might not care if independently a Linux distro came out designed for those devices, as long as they had nothing to do with it.. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 23:02:22 -0400 From: eekel...@psu.edu To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months. On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: Hmm Ive been using Ubuntu 12.04 at home for about 6 months now and I find it very nice. I have not had a single crash, and pretty much everything works as expected. (Unity takes some getting used to and unity friendly apps for the best user interface consistancy) As far as waning goes, the desktop itself is waning... I think your point about the desktop is well taken, and somewhat problematic for people that like to do things with computers. I think that mobile devices are very good for checking email, but that's as close to work as you can get. I upgraded from 10.04 to 12.04 and it got rid of my constant crashes. I was thinking about getting a new computer, but apparently it was some misconfiguration. I do find the new interface a little annoying Eric try Mint 13's Cinnamon. Its less annoying. not that I've used it much. Apparently it can be used in Ubuntu 12.04 Actually I think we should consider switching to Mint. It uses uses Ubuntu repositories but is made with 'doing stuff' in mind... Chris M -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Eric; I think your point about the desktop is well taken, and somewhat problematic for people that like to do things with computers. I think that mobile devices are very good for checking email, but that's as close to work as you can get. Disagree. Have an Android app. that displays VRML/X3D and STL files. For a while was an iPhone developer. Apple distributed my free desktop software until I stopped paying for the privilege of having them give it away. If it was iPhone, I could use the GPU to do 3D cylinder/triangle collisions for CAM work. Android does not (yet) support OpenCL, so my algorithms are sitting, waiting for my iPhone port. These algorithms run 10x faster on the GPU than the CPU on my desktop computer for large models. The programming paradigm shift will eventually hit all software, as desktop hardware is not being developed in any great sense any more. The future is in mobile hardware, even if tied to a desktop. I hope to eventually get my 0.99c app to do model slicing and CAM tool path generation, and reflective/refractive viewing of models. Do your publicity shots on the bus or train on the way to work. Do the tool path generation while walking down the street. (watch your feet though!) Sure, mobile devices are slower than desktops of the '90s, but, once you figure out how to program mobile devices, you fly. I'm not going to advertise nor push my Android app here, especially as some of the neat work is not yet released, but I would just say do not dismiss the technology behind mobile as it will *be* the desktop, and mobile, and everything fairly soon. Keep your eyes peeled on the mobile devices. Passively watch my app in the Google Play store, and see what it eventually does. (look for my name as author). Never say never. John Alexander Stewart. -- Everyone hates slow websites. So do we. Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics Download AppDynamics Lite for free today: http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;258768047;13503038;j? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
Just found this: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/intel-declares-clover-trail-atom-processor-a-no-linux-zone/ A sad day for Linux... -- -Mark Ne M'oubliez ---Family Motto Hope for the best, plan for the worst ---Personal Motto -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] For anybody considering upgrading their motherboard in the next few months.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/09/intel-declares-clover-trail-atom-processor-a-no-linux-zone/ If there will be a well-designed and/or inexpensive hardware with this chipset, it'll likely get reverse-engineered. The likely alternative is it'll be a proprietary curiosity that it'll peter out in the marketplace. Will they ever learn... -- How fast is your code? 3 out of 4 devs don\\\'t know how their code performs in production. Find out how slow your code is with AppDynamics Lite. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;262219672;13503038;z? http://info.appdynamics.com/FreeJavaPerformanceDownload.html ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
