Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Dave Cole]

On 2/23/2015 1:49 PM, dave wrote:
> Weber Systems wrote EZ-Trol

http://www.webersys.com/

Synergy looks a bit like Ez-trol but I don't see any free copies of 
Synergy being given away or links to the source code...  only a 30 day 
free trial.

Perhaps we have a different idea of what is "Public Domain" ??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_domain

Otherwise, please cough up a link to the source code.

Inquiring minds want to know..  ;-)

Dave


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[dave]

On 02/23/2015 09:19 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> On 2/23/2015 11:12 AM, dave wrote:
>> IIRC  Weber Systems wrote EZ-Trol for Smithy. A couple of years ago
>> it was moved to public domain.
> I don't recall that ever being mentioned on the EMC2/LinuxCNC email list?
>
> Where is it at??
>
> Dave

It is amazing what one can find out  on google. I keep saying that to my twin
sister but it hasn't quite soaked in.

Weber Systems wrote Synergy and that may ring more bells.

www.*webersys*.com

HTH

Dave






--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Dave Cole]

On 2/23/2015 11:12 AM, dave wrote:
> IIRC  Weber Systems wrote EZ-Trol for Smithy. A couple of years ago
> it was moved to public domain.

I don't recall that ever being mentioned on the EMC2/LinuxCNC email list?

Where is it at??

Dave

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[dave]

On 02/19/2015 09:02 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> Trademarking doesn't do much other than allowing someone/thing to take
> some ownership of a name to make sure that someone else can't openly use
> the same "name".
>
> Remember when EMC2 became LinuxCNC?  That was due to what EMC saw as a
> trademark infringement.  (Which I still think was BS..  )
>
> If their screen is a derived work and they offer to give the source code
> to anyone who buys the system, then I believe that they are perfectly ok
> when it comes to the GPL.
>
> Smithy used EMC2 as their machine controller for years.   They called it
> the EZTrol or something close to that.
> http://www.smithy.com/node/628
>
> As I recall, they never mentioned that they were using EMC2 as their
> controller in their product literature.  I don't know if Smithy ever
> contributed anything back to the EMC2 community.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 2/19/2015 11:13 AM, Len Shelton wrote:
>> Your logic falls apart when
>>
>>  DISPLAY = PathPilot
>>
>> yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.
>>
>> It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
>> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller
>>
>> rather than:
>> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC
>>
>> ...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.
>>
>> Or maybe I am just crazy :-)
>>
>>>Len
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/19/2015 3:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>>> If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
>>> it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
>>> and see something like:
>>>
>>> # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
>>> DISPLAY =  axis
>>>
>>> then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a proprietary
>>> replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
>>> no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
IIRC  Weber Systems wrote EZ-Trol for Smithy. A couple of years ago
it was moved to public domain.

Dave

--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 2/19/2015 10:02 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> Trademarking doesn't do much other than allowing someone/thing to take
> some ownership of a name to make sure that someone else can't openly use
> the same "name".
>
> Remember when EMC2 became LinuxCNC?  That was due to what EMC saw as a
> trademark infringement.  (Which I still think was BS..  )

World Wildlife Fund VS World Wrestling Federation, over the letters WWF. 
They claimed "damages" from being "forced" to have to always spell out 
their full name and use their panda bear logo to avoid "confusion" with 
the wrestling company. If I had Donald Trump money I'd sue them for 
abandonment of trademark since they have not sued EVERY organization or 
company on Earth with the initials WWF. If you're going to abuse the law 
over three letters being used by a completely unrelated business, you'd 
better be prepared to sue *everyone* using those letters.

FranklinCovey has a trademark on "7 Habits", from "The 7 Habits of 
Highly Effective People". They do NOT have a trademark on "Seven 
Habits", though they have repeatedly tried to get one.

Use a phrase like "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates" in a 
somewhat popular webcomic and FranklinCovey will send a C&D letter, 
despite there being no trademark infringement. If it came to a lawsuit, 
they'd probably win despite not having a legal leg to stand on, just 
like the World Wildlife Fund.

It rather irritates me to see successful intimidation and lawsuits that 
are such gross misrepresentations and violations of trademark law.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 2/19/2015 9:13 AM, Len Shelton wrote:
>
> Your logic falls apart when
>
> DISPLAY = PathPilot
>
> yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.
>
> It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller
>
> rather than:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC
>
> ...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.
>
> Or maybe I am just crazy :-)

I wonder if Tormach called up the Pilot Pen company and said they were 
going to be making a product with Pilot in the name?

Remember the original Palm Pilot PDA? Pilot Pen sued and the settlement 
included transitioning away from having Pilot in the name.

IMHO, Pilot Pen would have been better off taking advantage of the 
commonality and producing a line of luxury combination stylus/pens, 
naming the line Pilot for Palm Pilot. ;)

But usually companies go for the lawsuit first and never bother to think 
about taking advantage of an opportunity. Look up how Apple handed the 
Brazilian computer market to PC clones when they stomped Unitron into 
the mud instead of doing a licensed production deal to get around 
Brazil's computer import ban (lifted in 1992) and incorporating 
Unitron's smart people into their R&D system.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Gregg Eshelman]

On 2/19/2015 2:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:

> If I sold hardware, used LinuxCNC, and developed a proprietary user
> interface, with the purpose of providing the customer a superior
> ergonomic and comfortable feel when using my machines, then I would also
> refrain from making it OSS. (We have done well. A better TP is a much
> bigger prize.)

That's essentially what Apple has done with BSD, layered a fancy and 
proprietary user interface over an open source back end then called it OS X.

You can download the source code for the parts of OS X that are open 
source here http://www.opensource.apple.com/


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Andreas Pettersson]

This is correct, if they "distribute" the software in any way, they are 
supposed to provide the source
code within that distribution (See siemens and samsung installation 
discs). But later on with GPL you
were also supposed to publish your work for download (This is rarely 
followed). That is anyway the praxis
we work after when doing GPL licensed work at my company.

Trademarking a brand isn't the same as trademarking a piece of software. 
So well the Pathpilot
brand can and should be trademarked by Tormach, its theirs no question 
about that.
But i guess it should be clear what its based upon or derived from (if any).

// Andreas



Dave Cole skrev den 2015-02-19 18:02:
> Trademarking doesn't do much other than allowing someone/thing to take
> some ownership of a name to make sure that someone else can't openly use
> the same "name".
>
> Remember when EMC2 became LinuxCNC?  That was due to what EMC saw as a
> trademark infringement.  (Which I still think was BS..  )
>
> If their screen is a derived work and they offer to give the source code
> to anyone who buys the system, then I believe that they are perfectly ok
> when it comes to the GPL.
>
> Smithy used EMC2 as their machine controller for years.   They called it
> the EZTrol or something close to that.
> http://www.smithy.com/node/628
>
> As I recall, they never mentioned that they were using EMC2 as their
> controller in their product literature.  I don't know if Smithy ever
> contributed anything back to the EMC2 community.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 2/19/2015 11:13 AM, Len Shelton wrote:
>> Your logic falls apart when
>>
>>  DISPLAY = PathPilot
>>
>> yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.
>>
>> It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
>> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller
>>
>> rather than:
>> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC
>>
>> ...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.
>>
>> Or maybe I am just crazy :-)
>>
>>>Len
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/19/2015 3:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>>> If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
>>> it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
>>> and see something like:
>>>
>>> # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
>>> DISPLAY =  axis
>>>
>>> then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a proprietary
>>> replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
>>> no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
>> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
>> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
>> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
>> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
>> ___
>> Emc-users mailing list
>> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> --
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday, February 19, 2015 04:27:53 AM Andreas Pettersson wrote:
> There is actually a universal "drop-in" made by Nick Drobchenko over at
> the russian site "cnc club"
> He calls it "Features", and it a veeery flexible conversational..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkOJhT69WEc

Looks interesting, but I have a hard time understanding nick.

> Download link; https://github.com/cnc-club/linuxcnc-features

Got that, hope I don't forget it as it certainly looks to be useful on a 
lathe.
 
> // Andreas
> 
> John Alexander Stewart skrev den 2015-02-19 10:17:
> > Andy -
> > 
> >>> the LinuxCNC community develops a case of PathPilot envy, someone
> >>> will write an open source version.
> >> 
> >> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-
> >> macros
> >> 
> >> :-)
> > 
> > you have been elected to now do the same for Mills. :-)
> > 
> > John.

;-) See Andy? Sounds like a project to me!

Thanks Andreas.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Dave Cole]

Trademarking doesn't do much other than allowing someone/thing to take 
some ownership of a name to make sure that someone else can't openly use 
the same "name".

Remember when EMC2 became LinuxCNC?  That was due to what EMC saw as a 
trademark infringement.  (Which I still think was BS..  )

If their screen is a derived work and they offer to give the source code 
to anyone who buys the system, then I believe that they are perfectly ok 
when it comes to the GPL.

Smithy used EMC2 as their machine controller for years.   They called it 
the EZTrol or something close to that.
http://www.smithy.com/node/628

As I recall, they never mentioned that they were using EMC2 as their 
controller in their product literature.  I don't know if Smithy ever 
contributed anything back to the EMC2 community.

Dave


On 2/19/2015 11:13 AM, Len Shelton wrote:
> Your logic falls apart when
>
> DISPLAY = PathPilot
>
> yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.
>
> It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller
>
> rather than:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC
>
> ...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.
>
> Or maybe I am just crazy :-)
>
>   >Len
>
>
>
> On 2/19/2015 3:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
>> If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
>> it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
>> and see something like:
>>
>> # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
>> DISPLAY =  axis
>>
>> then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a proprietary
>> replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
>> no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Pete Matos]

Where's the damn Like Button Len... LOL

Pete


On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Len Shelton  wrote:

>
> Your logic falls apart when
>
>DISPLAY = PathPilot
>
> yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.
>
> It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller
>
> rather than:
> Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC
>
> ...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.
>
> Or maybe I am just crazy :-)
>
>  >Len
>
>
>
> On 2/19/2015 3:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> > If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
> > it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
> > and see something like:
> >
> > # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
> > DISPLAY =  axis
> >
> > then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a
> proprietary
> > replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
> > no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
>
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>



-- 
Pete Matos
A and N Precision and Fabrication
Maryville, Tennessee
865-236-8996
--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Len Shelton]

Your logic falls apart when

   DISPLAY = PathPilot

yet PathPilot *includes* the Gremlin display.

It further fails to pass muster when the headline reads:
Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new machine controller

rather than:
Introducing PathPilot™, Tormach’s new GUI for LinuxCNC

...especially when its punctuated with a trade mark symbol.

Or maybe I am just crazy :-)

 >Len



On 2/19/2015 3:57 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
> it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
> and see something like:
>
> # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
> DISPLAY =  axis
>
> then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a proprietary
> replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
> no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
>




--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[R.L. Wurdack]

Has any of these guys read ""Just for Fun"" or ""Rebel Code"" ?

Trying to corner open source is a failed strategy.

Dick


- Original Message - 
From: "Erik Christiansen" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2015 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)


> On 18.02.15 14:35, Bruce Layne wrote:
>> Early on, I did say that I doubted a lot of that code will be open
>> source, and frankly I still do for the user interface and conversational
>> wizards.  They made a substantial investment to develop some of that
>> code and I think they'd probably like to keep some of that user
>> interface as a proprietary Tormach look and feel.
>
> If I sold hardware, used LinuxCNC, and developed a proprietary user
> interface, with the purpose of providing the customer a superior
> ergonomic and comfortable feel when using my machines, then I would also
> refrain from making it OSS. (We have done well. A better TP is a much
> bigger prize.)
>
> If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
> it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
> and see something like:
>
> # Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
> DISPLAY =  axis
>
> then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a 
> proprietary
> replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
> no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.
>
> Incidentally, although I have not stopped to read the latest GPL
> version, the earlier one permitted code to be made open source by supply
> of relocatable object code in lieu of source code. That still allows the
> community to re-use the code, but keeps the source out of the hands of
> commercial competitors. To release the source is an act of good faith, I
> consider.
>
> It is easy to want something for nothing, but is it reasonable to want
> it all?
>
> ..
>
>> I'm curious how much Tormach developed in house not for legal reasons,
>> or "ethical" reasons, or because I'm a hater.  I'm curious because the
>> marketing part of this seems weird to me and I'd like to understand it.
>
> Tormach did develop it in-house. They did not hire another company to
> develop it, they hired a temporary employee - a contractor. It is their
> code - they own the copyright, and if they've assigned to us the right
> to use it too, then then it would be stupid to call it our code, just to
> try to deny their contribution. AIUI, that is not marketing, just simple
> reality - not very difficult to understand at all.
>
>> If I was doing the Tormach marketing, I'd play up the Free Open Source
>> Software aspect, brag about giving back to the community, while
>> expounding about the NEW & IMPROVED hard realtime reliability, the
>> enhanced features, etc.
>
> A competent marketer understands his market. It is unlikely that the
> majority of ready-to-eat machine buyers will have much understanding of
> FOSS - or give a damn. It seems a much wiser decision to stamp their
> brand on their product, thereby doing nothing to undermine the
> customer's feeling that it is fully supported by the vendor. Brand
> confidence is vital, I figure - the machines are not an insignificant
> investment for a hobbyist or small business.
>
> Erik
>
> -- 
> In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap,
> and much more difficult to find."  - Terry Pratchett
>
> --
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> 



--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Erik Christiansen]

On 18.02.15 14:35, Bruce Layne wrote:
> Early on, I did say that I doubted a lot of that code will be open 
> source, and frankly I still do for the user interface and conversational 
> wizards.  They made a substantial investment to develop some of that 
> code and I think they'd probably like to keep some of that user 
> interface as a proprietary Tormach look and feel.

If I sold hardware, used LinuxCNC, and developed a proprietary user
interface, with the purpose of providing the customer a superior
ergonomic and comfortable feel when using my machines, then I would also
refrain from making it OSS. (We have done well. A better TP is a much
bigger prize.)

If the TP code is linked into LinuxCNC, rather than communicating with
it over an API, then it is a derived work, but when you look at your ini,
and see something like:

# Name of display program, e.g., tkemc
DISPLAY =  axis

then you realise that the display program is separate, and so a proprietary
replacement for Axis is not a derived work, and Tormach's generosity has
no need (or good reason) to be greater than it is, AFAICT.

Incidentally, although I have not stopped to read the latest GPL
version, the earlier one permitted code to be made open source by supply
of relocatable object code in lieu of source code. That still allows the
community to re-use the code, but keeps the source out of the hands of
commercial competitors. To release the source is an act of good faith, I
consider.

It is easy to want something for nothing, but is it reasonable to want
it all?

...

> I'm curious how much Tormach developed in house not for legal reasons, 
> or "ethical" reasons, or because I'm a hater.  I'm curious because the 
> marketing part of this seems weird to me and I'd like to understand it.  

Tormach did develop it in-house. They did not hire another company to
develop it, they hired a temporary employee - a contractor. It is their
code - they own the copyright, and if they've assigned to us the right
to use it too, then then it would be stupid to call it our code, just to
try to deny their contribution. AIUI, that is not marketing, just simple
reality - not very difficult to understand at all.

> If I was doing the Tormach marketing, I'd play up the Free Open Source 
> Software aspect, brag about giving back to the community, while 
> expounding about the NEW & IMPROVED hard realtime reliability, the 
> enhanced features, etc.

A competent marketer understands his market. It is unlikely that the
majority of ready-to-eat machine buyers will have much understanding of
FOSS - or give a damn. It seems a much wiser decision to stamp their
brand on their product, thereby doing nothing to undermine the
customer's feeling that it is fully supported by the vendor. Brand
confidence is vital, I figure - the machines are not an insignificant
investment for a hobbyist or small business.

Erik

-- 
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than the soap,
and much more difficult to find."  - Terry Pratchett

--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Andreas Pettersson]

There is actually a universal "drop-in" made by Nick Drobchenko over at 
the russian site "cnc club"
He calls it "Features", and it a veeery flexible conversational..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkOJhT69WEc
Download link; https://github.com/cnc-club/linuxcnc-features

// Andreas

John Alexander Stewart skrev den 2015-02-19 10:17:
> Andy -
>
>>> the LinuxCNC community develops a case of PathPilot envy, someone will
>>> write an open source version.
>>>
>> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros
>>
>> :-)
>>
>>
> you have been elected to now do the same for Mills. :-)
>
> John.
> --
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[John Alexander Stewart]

Andy -

>
> > the LinuxCNC community develops a case of PathPilot envy, someone will
> > write an open source version.
> >
>
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros
>
> :-)
>
>
you have been elected to now do the same for Mills. :-)

John.
--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Jon Elson]

On 02/18/2015 07:38 AM, sam sokolik wrote:
> I had/have been doing a lot of testing of the new trajectory planner of
> Robs.  (I didn't know or was told that he was working for Tormach - I
> was upset for about 2 seconds.. :) )  I don't know how they found Rob
> but wow - they sure picked the right guy to do it.
Rob gave a presentation at the Machinekit meeting that was 
HELD at Tormach's
headquarters in Wisconsin.  I tried to follow, but it was 
drinking math from
a firehose.  I did get SOME idea of how he did what he did, 
and was VERY
impressed!

Jon

--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[andy pugh]

On 18 February 2015 at 19:35, Bruce Layne 
wrote:

> If someone in
> the LinuxCNC community develops a case of PathPilot envy, someone will
> write an open source version.
>

http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros

:-)


-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Bruce Layne]

Hi Erik,

You, and at least one other person, are definitely missing my point.  
I'll take the blame for not expressing myself properly. I'll try again.

I am not disparaging Tormach.  At all.  As I've said, I believe their 
switch to LinuxCNC will be good for them and for their customers.  In 
fact, I have publicly suggested this in the past on several occasions.  
I've even tried in vain to convince Tormach owners who were dissatisfied 
with Mach to install LinuxCNC on their own.  I also think Tormach and 
their customers will be very well served by MESA Electronics hardware.

My comments that apparently seemed so negative to you were not intended 
to relate to the legal issue of who owned the code. Obviously, if they 
paid for the code, they own the code, regardless of whether an employee 
or an off-site contractor wrote it.  I've written a fair amount of code 
as an off-site contactor, and I certainly wouldn't belittle that 
contribution.  I did not say one word about the legal aspects, licensing 
requirements, etc.  I don't know what Tormach might be legally required 
to do, and I'd greatly prefer to leave that issue for others to resolve.

I also had very little to say about what could be considered the 
"ethical" aspect... what they "should" do with the code they paid to 
have developed.  Others were hurling pejoratives and mild profanities, 
but not me.  I feel no hostility toward Tormach. They're helping a lot 
of people get into small scale machining who otherwise wouldn't.  How is 
that not a good thing?  I see Tormach as good, and LinuxCNC on Tormach 
as better.  I did say that I hoped they'd send some of that goodness 
back to the open source community so we could all benefit, but that 
wasn't a criticism.  That's just me being optimistic.

Early on, I did say that I doubted a lot of that code will be open 
source, and frankly I still do for the user interface and conversational 
wizards.  They made a substantial investment to develop some of that 
code and I think they'd probably like to keep some of that user 
interface as a proprietary Tormach look and feel. If so, that's a shame, 
because the direction they took is very much along the direction that 
I'd like to see LinuxCNC progress, but I didn't have their resources 
(financial motivation) to help move it in that direction.  If someone in 
the LinuxCNC community develops a case of PathPilot envy, someone will 
write an open source version.

Part of the reason that people were jumping to false conclusions about 
Tormach not giving back to the community is the result of how tight 
lipped they were about it.  They seem to be downplaying the open source 
aspect.  I'm spit balling here, but it looks to me as if they were 
almost forced to choose LinuxCNC because it's technically better, and 
they might be feeling some corporate reluctance about going down the 
Mach path for so long and taking their customers with them?  Nobody 
likes to admit a mistake.  Or maybe they don't want to encourage 
potential customers to buy a small 1990s era VMC with outdated controls 
by telling them how easy it is to convert it to LinuxCNC?

If there was any animosity in my email, it was very minor, and nothing 
but the good natured engineer versus marketing clash.  I'm an engineer, 
and the product is what matters.  Marketing people believe how the 
product is presented is what matters.  Sadly, I think the marketing 
people are almost always right when the criteria is measured based on 
what makes a financially successful product.

I'm curious how much Tormach developed in house not for legal reasons, 
or "ethical" reasons, or because I'm a hater.  I'm curious because the 
marketing part of this seems weird to me and I'd like to understand it.  
If I was doing the Tormach marketing, I'd play up the Free Open Source 
Software aspect, brag about giving back to the community, while 
expounding about the NEW & IMPROVED hard realtime reliability, the 
enhanced features, etc.  Instead, they seem to be acting as if they were 
caught kissing their cousin.


Bruce





On 02/18/2015 07:49 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 18.02.15 06:44, Bruce Layne wrote:
>> They do admit that LinuxCNC is the underlying software, but claim they
>> made substantial improvements, when they apparently paid for open source
>> code to be developed by someone else.
> No, it makes no difference whether a contractor works on-site or off -
> copyright belongs to the employer. As the paid work has been made
> available to LinuxCNC, IIUC, then all rational and reasonable open
> source hopes and expectations have been met, I believe. It seems petty
> and irrational to deny the substantial contribution they have in fact
> made. Funding a skilled off-site developer (sometimes from the OS
> community) to improve OS software is not common. (E.g. Nick Clifton has
> done a lot of v850 work on binutils and gcc for NEC, AFAIR.)
>
> The gift is in fact threefold, as the paid OS developer's skills are
> als

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Todd Zuercher]

If their company is anything like most, the person who wrote the add you were 
quoting, had nothing to do with putting together the "controller package" (and 
probably knows little about it) and through miscommunications, and creative 
license, some half truths, crept in.  I am sure the errors in the add were 
completely unintentional.  And I would hope that they would be corrected once 
they are brought to the attention of someone with the authority to fix them.

- Original Message -
From: "Bruce Layne" 
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 6:44:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

The way the upgrades were described, the hardware sounded very MESA-ish, 
so I wasn't surprised to see that it was.  However, Tormach does seem to 
be interested in conveying the impression that the software and hardware 
were created by Tormach.

http://www.tormach.com/blog/pathpilot-beta-testing

Our own development work began in earnest 4 years ago. During that time, 
we’ve
made substantial improvements to the underlying source code to make 
PathPilot a
viable commercial product. These include a revamped trajectory planner,
improvements to the G-Code interpreter, a new operator interface, onboard
conversational programming, and a host of other enhancements.

PathPilot, however, is not just software. It is also new dedicated hardware
“inside the box” designed specifically for motion control, along with 
complete
documentation, and end-user support. Unlike our previous generation 
controller,
PathPilot is a fully integrated and purpose-designed CNC motion control 
platform
for Tormach products.


They do admit that LinuxCNC is the underlying software, but claim they 
made substantial improvements, when they apparently paid for open source 
code to be developed by someone else.  That's possibly splitting hairs, 
but I'm not sure if I'm the one splitting hairs, or the Tormach 
marketing department.  In the second paragraph quoted above, they imply 
that they "developed new dedicated hardware" that is "a fully integrated 
and purpose-designed CNC motion control platform for Tormach products."  
Given the availability of high quality and low cost off-the-shelf 
hardware, they'd be crazy to develop their own.  I suspect their 
contribution is the "complete documentation, and end-user support."

Tormach users will be very well served by LinuxCNC software and MESA 
Electronics hardware, but I think it's interesting that Tormach seems to 
feel the need to imply that they did the development. They're a fairly 
small company and they do a lot of good development, but they must feel 
that they can't allow a market impression that they are integrators, 
putting together tools that others provide.  Does anyone know if they 
created their nice looking graphical front end, or did they subcontract 
that as well?  It's fine by me either way, but I am curious.

Maybe Brian Williams took a job as the marketing director at Tormach.  
If they blog about their helicopter being shot down behind enemy lines, 
and using a PCNC 770 to manufacture the parts they needed to repair the 
helicopter, I'm calling BS.  :-)





On 02/18/2015 05:50 AM, Andrew wrote:
> 2015-02-18 12:34 GMT+02:00 Belli Button :
>
>> I'm more curious about the hardware, do you think they are using 5i25 from
>> Mesa or is it something of their own?
>>
>> It's MESA.
> Look at http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=893 ,
> Figure 6
>
> --
> Andrew
> --
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Erik Christiansen]

On 18.02.15 06:44, Bruce Layne wrote:
> They do admit that LinuxCNC is the underlying software, but claim they 
> made substantial improvements, when they apparently paid for open source 
> code to be developed by someone else.

No, it makes no difference whether a contractor works on-site or off -
copyright belongs to the employer. As the paid work has been made
available to LinuxCNC, IIUC, then all rational and reasonable open
source hopes and expectations have been met, I believe. It seems petty
and irrational to deny the substantial contribution they have in fact
made. Funding a skilled off-site developer (sometimes from the OS
community) to improve OS software is not common. (E.g. Nick Clifton has
done a lot of v850 work on binutils and gcc for NEC, AFAIR.)

The gift is in fact threefold, as the paid OS developer's skills are
also developed by the project, and it helps to keep the wolf from the
door. (Or maybe better still, pays for new toys.)

...

> Tormach users will be very well served by LinuxCNC software and MESA 
> Electronics hardware, but I think it's interesting that Tormach seems to 
> feel the need to imply that they did the development.

If they paid for it, then they did it. (They own the copyright, and
their copyright assignment is required before it can become OS in
LinuxCNC. And I appreciate their generosity.)

> They're a fairly small company and they do a lot of good development,
> but they must feel that they can't allow a market impression that they
> are integrators, putting together tools that others provide.  Does
> anyone know if they created their nice looking graphical front end, or
> did they subcontract that as well?  It's fine by me either way, but I
> am curious.

Not just curious, but remarkably negative about a substantial and useful
contribution to the LinuxCNC community, AIUI. Do you also expect Lenovo
or Dell to shout the names of manufacturers of their system components,
whether interface cards or hard drives, or is this disdain targeted?

> Maybe Brian Williams took a job as the marketing director at Tormach.  
> If they blog about their helicopter being shot down behind enemy lines, 
> and using a PCNC 770 to manufacture the parts they needed to repair the 
> helicopter, I'm calling BS.  :-)

When you invent such BS, then whose BS is it?

It seems unreasonable for any CNC vendor to advertise for suppliers of
components, whether power cords, mother boards, or interface cards, when
what they sell is a performance package. It is often an OS licencing
requirement that the software application's presence in the marketed
product be stated, but that is rarely so for purchased components.

Your remarkably negative take on this collaborative contribution to OSS
surprises me. Would you rather have them use Mach3, and leave LinuxCNC
to its own devices?

Erik

-- 
Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
  - Philip K. Dick

--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Dave Cole]

Sam...

Remember the email list conversations that Rob and you had with the 
Mach3 crew a while back?
That now puts those conversations in an entirely different light.

If you want a great discount on a slant back lathe or small mill, now 
might be the right time to speak up!  :-)

Dave



On 2/18/2015 8:38 AM, sam sokolik wrote:
> I had/have been doing a lot of testing of the new trajectory planner of
> Robs.  (I didn't know or was told that he was working for Tormach - I
> was upset for about 2 seconds.. :) )  I don't know how they found Rob
> but wow - they sure picked the right guy to do it.  The TP re-write was
> huge and started Nov 2013.  (and was required to compete with mach3 in
> speed)
>
> The new TP is a big improvement on the previous planner.  I am glad
> Tormach was open to pushing it back to the community.
>
> I don't know enough about the licensing to weigh in - I just hope the
> 'right thing' is done. (and 'most' people are happy :) )
>
> So we have a new n-lookahead TP and Tormach has a control that they can
> manage 100%.
>
> (seems like a win win so far..)
>
> sam
>
>
>
>
> On 2/18/2015 5:11 AM, andy pugh wrote:
>> On 18 February 2015 at 10:50, Andrew  wrote:
>>
 It's MESA.
>>> Look at http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=893 ,
>>> Figure 6
>>>
>> LinuxCNC _and_ hardware stepping. The customers won't know what has hit
>> them :-)
>>
>>
>
> --
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Dave Cole]

On 2/18/2015 6:44 AM, Bruce Layne wrote:
> Does anyone know if they
> created their nice looking graphical front end, or did they subcontract
> that as well?  It's fine by me either way, but I am curious.

There really is no difference between the two.   I subcontract to other 
companies who sell the software I develop as their own.
They legally own the software, so it is their software to sell. Whether 
the software has been written by a subcontractor of direct employee is 
pretty much irrelevant.

Dave

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[sam sokolik]

I had/have been doing a lot of testing of the new trajectory planner of 
Robs.  (I didn't know or was told that he was working for Tormach - I 
was upset for about 2 seconds.. :) )  I don't know how they found Rob 
but wow - they sure picked the right guy to do it.  The TP re-write was 
huge and started Nov 2013.  (and was required to compete with mach3 in 
speed)

The new TP is a big improvement on the previous planner.  I am glad 
Tormach was open to pushing it back to the community.

I don't know enough about the licensing to weigh in - I just hope the 
'right thing' is done. (and 'most' people are happy :) )

So we have a new n-lookahead TP and Tormach has a control that they can 
manage 100%.

(seems like a win win so far..)

sam




On 2/18/2015 5:11 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 18 February 2015 at 10:50, Andrew  wrote:
>
>>> It's MESA.
>> Look at http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=893 ,
>> Figure 6
>>
> LinuxCNC _and_ hardware stepping. The customers won't know what has hit
> them :-)
>
>


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Bruce Layne]

The way the upgrades were described, the hardware sounded very MESA-ish, 
so I wasn't surprised to see that it was.  However, Tormach does seem to 
be interested in conveying the impression that the software and hardware 
were created by Tormach.

http://www.tormach.com/blog/pathpilot-beta-testing

Our own development work began in earnest 4 years ago. During that time, 
we’ve
made substantial improvements to the underlying source code to make 
PathPilot a
viable commercial product. These include a revamped trajectory planner,
improvements to the G-Code interpreter, a new operator interface, onboard
conversational programming, and a host of other enhancements.

PathPilot, however, is not just software. It is also new dedicated hardware
“inside the box” designed specifically for motion control, along with 
complete
documentation, and end-user support. Unlike our previous generation 
controller,
PathPilot is a fully integrated and purpose-designed CNC motion control 
platform
for Tormach products.


They do admit that LinuxCNC is the underlying software, but claim they 
made substantial improvements, when they apparently paid for open source 
code to be developed by someone else.  That's possibly splitting hairs, 
but I'm not sure if I'm the one splitting hairs, or the Tormach 
marketing department.  In the second paragraph quoted above, they imply 
that they "developed new dedicated hardware" that is "a fully integrated 
and purpose-designed CNC motion control platform for Tormach products."  
Given the availability of high quality and low cost off-the-shelf 
hardware, they'd be crazy to develop their own.  I suspect their 
contribution is the "complete documentation, and end-user support."

Tormach users will be very well served by LinuxCNC software and MESA 
Electronics hardware, but I think it's interesting that Tormach seems to 
feel the need to imply that they did the development. They're a fairly 
small company and they do a lot of good development, but they must feel 
that they can't allow a market impression that they are integrators, 
putting together tools that others provide.  Does anyone know if they 
created their nice looking graphical front end, or did they subcontract 
that as well?  It's fine by me either way, but I am curious.

Maybe Brian Williams took a job as the marketing director at Tormach.  
If they blog about their helicopter being shot down behind enemy lines, 
and using a PCNC 770 to manufacture the parts they needed to repair the 
helicopter, I'm calling BS.  :-)





On 02/18/2015 05:50 AM, Andrew wrote:
> 2015-02-18 12:34 GMT+02:00 Belli Button :
>
>> I'm more curious about the hardware, do you think they are using 5i25 from
>> Mesa or is it something of their own?
>>
>> It's MESA.
> Look at http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=893 ,
> Figure 6
>
> --
> Andrew
> --
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Belli Button]

Ah, 5i25, kewl!  Does this mean we can 'borrow' their software for our own
machines??


-Original Message-
From: Andrew [mailto:pkm...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 18 February 2015 12:51
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

2015-02-18 12:34 GMT+02:00 Belli Button :

> I'm more curious about the hardware, do you think they are using 5i25 
> from Mesa or is it something of their own?
>
> It's MESA.
Look at http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=893 ,
Figure 6

--
Andrew

--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server from
Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards with
Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more Get
technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[andy pugh]

On 18 February 2015 at 10:50, Andrew  wrote:

> > It's MESA.
> Look at http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=893 ,
> Figure 6
>

LinuxCNC _and_ hardware stepping. The customers won't know what has hit
them :-)


-- 
atp
If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Andrew]

2015-02-18 12:34 GMT+02:00 Belli Button :

> I'm more curious about the hardware, do you think they are using 5i25 from
> Mesa or is it something of their own?
>
> It's MESA.
Look at http://www.tormach.com/document_direct_download.html?doc_id=893 ,
Figure 6

--
Andrew
--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Andreas Pettersson]

That should PCW be able to answer.. If there been a buyup of MESA cards, 
that would be big buisness i imagine. ;)

// A

Belli Button skrev den 2015-02-18 11:34:
> I'm more curious about the hardware, do you think they are using 5i25 from
> Mesa or is it something of their own?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
> from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
> with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
> Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] PathPilot (what hardware?)

[Belli Button]

I'm more curious about the hardware, do you think they are using 5i25 from
Mesa or is it something of their own?   




--
Download BIRT iHub F-Type - The Free Enterprise-Grade BIRT Server
from Actuate! Instantly Supercharge Your Business Reports and Dashboards
with Interactivity, Sharing, Native Excel Exports, App Integration & more
Get technology previously reserved for billion-dollar corporations, FREE
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=190641631&iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users