Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 20 Mar 2020 at 15:22, Jon Elson  wrote:

> ARRGH!  Just when I think I finally understand LinuxCNC,
> they add YET another complexity!
> I'd never even HEARD of this.

http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/motion/external-offsets.html

It's how Skunkworks did this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWLcFdObLvA
And how I did this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6dK41_usfQ

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Always been here Gene!

My parents were supposed to travel to Italy this month (my father was born
there in 1939) but with all this mess they obviously stayed here.


El vie., 20 mar. 2020 13:02, Gene Heskett  escribió:

> On Friday 20 March 2020 11:19:33 Jon Elson wrote:
>
> > On 03/20/2020 08:46 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > > I re-checked and I have the same values for speed and acceleration
> > > in joints and axes. The thing that was limiting my velocity was the
> > > OFFSET_AV_RATIO entry. I had it near 0.9 and once I homed the axis
> > > started to cause the effect. Reducing it to 0.1 solved the problem.
> > > If I don't remember wrong this happened with and without the eoffset
> > > enabled. I'll check it again in a few moments.
> >
> > ARRGH!  Just when I think I finally understand LinuxCNC,
> > they add YET another complexity!
> > I'd never even HEARD of this.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> You're confused?, I'm plumb bumfuzzled. Is the OP even talking about
> LinuxCNC?  And the last I saw Leonardo mention where he was, he was in
> northern Europe, now he's in Agentina? Somethings not calculating.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 20 March 2020 11:19:33 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/20/2020 08:46 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > I re-checked and I have the same values for speed and acceleration
> > in joints and axes. The thing that was limiting my velocity was the
> > OFFSET_AV_RATIO entry. I had it near 0.9 and once I homed the axis
> > started to cause the effect. Reducing it to 0.1 solved the problem.
> > If I don't remember wrong this happened with and without the eoffset
> > enabled. I'll check it again in a few moments.
>
> ARRGH!  Just when I think I finally understand LinuxCNC,
> they add YET another complexity!
> I'd never even HEARD of this.
>
> Jon
>
You're confused?, I'm plumb bumfuzzled. Is the OP even talking about 
LinuxCNC?  And the last I saw Leonardo mention where he was, he was in 
northern Europe, now he's in Agentina? Somethings not calculating.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

I'm anxious to see this feature turning some lobes. Off course I'll be
sharing some videos for you to see.  So far I only tested it with the
motors running on the table and it worked flawlessly.

I also plan to turn some globoidal worm gears some time soon (I hope). I
really think Linuxcnc only gets better and better with time :). But yeah
it's a complex piece of software.

El vie., 20 mar. 2020 12:23, Jon Elson  escribió:

> On 03/20/2020 08:46 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > I re-checked and I have the same values for speed and acceleration in
> > joints and axes. The thing that was limiting my velocity was the
> > OFFSET_AV_RATIO entry. I had it near 0.9 and once I homed the axis
> started
> > to cause the effect. Reducing it to 0.1 solved the problem. If I don't
> > remember wrong this happened with and without the eoffset enabled. I'll
> > check it again in a few moments.
> >
> >
> ARRGH!  Just when I think I finally understand LinuxCNC,
> they add YET another complexity!
> I'd never even HEARD of this.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Jon Elson]

On 03/20/2020 08:46 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

I re-checked and I have the same values for speed and acceleration in
joints and axes. The thing that was limiting my velocity was the
OFFSET_AV_RATIO entry. I had it near 0.9 and once I homed the axis started
to cause the effect. Reducing it to 0.1 solved the problem. If I don't
remember wrong this happened with and without the eoffset enabled. I'll
check it again in a few moments.


ARRGH!  Just when I think I finally understand LinuxCNC, 
they add YET another complexity!

I'd never even HEARD of this.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

I re-checked and I have the same values for speed and acceleration in
joints and axes. The thing that was limiting my velocity was the
OFFSET_AV_RATIO entry. I had it near 0.9 and once I homed the axis started
to cause the effect. Reducing it to 0.1 solved the problem. If I don't
remember wrong this happened with and without the eoffset enabled. I'll
check it again in a few moments.

I planned to start the conversion but due to the quarantine that started
today here in Argentina I'll have to wait at least until March 31st. :(

Anyway... In the meantime I'll be testing and polishing all the config so
it's more or less plug and play when we install the new hardware.

Thanks as always guys!

El mié., 18 mar. 2020 20:04, Jon Elson  escribió:

> On 03/18/2020 02:14 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> >
> > I'm in that same boat Jon, but its axis and joint settings that it forces
> > me to match or its showstopper exit at init time. I have wondered but
> > haven't asked why it doesn't do away with the axis setting and use he
> > joint for everything. But in that regard, I'm a big dummy.
> >
> >
> In trivial kinematics systems (lathes and mills) there is an
> exact concordance between axes and joints.
> In other systems (hexapods, SCARA and delta machines, for
> instance) axes are orthogonal, but joints
> can be any combination of swivels and linear components.  On
> those, you need different limits on
> each.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Jon Elson]

On 03/18/2020 02:14 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:


I'm in that same boat Jon, but its axis and joint settings that it forces
me to match or its showstopper exit at init time. I have wondered but
haven't asked why it doesn't do away with the axis setting and use he
joint for everything. But in that regard, I'm a big dummy.


In trivial kinematics systems (lathes and mills) there is an 
exact concordance between axes and joints.
In other systems (hexapods, SCARA and delta machines, for 
instance) axes are orthogonal, but joints
can be any combination of swivels and linear components.  On 
those, you need different limits on

each.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 March 2020 14:48:59 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/18/2020 01:11 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 18 March 2020 13:08:35 Jon Elson wrote:
> >> On 03/17/2020 11:34 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> >>> The behaviour is the following: When I start LinuxCNC and move the
> >>> axis I get the maximum speed 10.000 mm/min. Once I hit the home
> >>> buttons for both axis (no limits linked yet since I'm testing the
> >>> config) I get a 1.800 mm/min max velocity, although all the
> >>> sliders are in the max velocity just as they where before homing.
> >>> If I try to make a rapid move using MDI the same thing happens.
> >>
> >> In the .ini files of the later versions of LinuxCNC, there
> >> are DIFFERENT MAX_VELOCITY parameters
> >> for JOINTS and AXES.  Before homing, you move joints, after
> >> homing you move axes.  You almost
> >> certainly have different numbers in these different sections
> >> of your .ini file.
> >>
> >> Jon
> >
> > That would be somewhat handy Jon, but halchecker demands they match,
> > so if i need to change it, I have always got two places to change? 
> > Some other option I need to define?
>
> There's a third place, in the [TRAJ] section of the .ini
> file. Since the split of [AXIS] and [JOINT]
> I'm not sure whether the settings in the [TRAJ] section
> affects both of the other places, or just
> one.
>
I'm in that same boat Jon, but its axis and joint settings that it forces 
me to match or its showstopper exit at init time. I have wondered but 
haven't asked why it doesn't do away with the axis setting and use he 
joint for everything. But in that regard, I'm a big dummy.

> Jon
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Jon Elson]

On 03/18/2020 01:11 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Wednesday 18 March 2020 13:08:35 Jon Elson wrote:


On 03/17/2020 11:34 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

The behaviour is the following: When I start LinuxCNC and move the
axis I get the maximum speed 10.000 mm/min. Once I hit the home
buttons for both axis (no limits linked yet since I'm testing the
config) I get a 1.800 mm/min max velocity, although all the sliders
are in the max velocity just as they where before homing. If I try
to make a rapid move using MDI the same thing happens.

In the .ini files of the later versions of LinuxCNC, there
are DIFFERENT MAX_VELOCITY parameters
for JOINTS and AXES.  Before homing, you move joints, after
homing you move axes.  You almost
certainly have different numbers in these different sections
of your .ini file.

Jon

That would be somewhat handy Jon, but halchecker demands they match, so
if i need to change it, I have always got two places to change?  Some
other option I need to define?


There's a third place, in the [TRAJ] section of the .ini 
file. Since the split of [AXIS] and [JOINT]
I'm not sure whether the settings in the [TRAJ] section 
affects both of the other places, or just

one.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 18 March 2020 13:08:35 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 03/17/2020 11:34 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:
> > The behaviour is the following: When I start LinuxCNC and move the
> > axis I get the maximum speed 10.000 mm/min. Once I hit the home
> > buttons for both axis (no limits linked yet since I'm testing the
> > config) I get a 1.800 mm/min max velocity, although all the sliders
> > are in the max velocity just as they where before homing. If I try
> > to make a rapid move using MDI the same thing happens.
>
> In the .ini files of the later versions of LinuxCNC, there
> are DIFFERENT MAX_VELOCITY parameters
> for JOINTS and AXES.  Before homing, you move joints, after
> homing you move axes.  You almost
> certainly have different numbers in these different sections
> of your .ini file.
>
> Jon

That would be somewhat handy Jon, but halchecker demands they match, so 
if i need to change it, I have always got two places to change?  Some 
other option I need to define?

Thanks Jon.
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Jon Elson]

On 03/17/2020 11:34 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote:

The behaviour is the following: When I start LinuxCNC and move the axis I
get the maximum speed 10.000 mm/min. Once I hit the home buttons for both
axis (no limits linked yet since I'm testing the config) I get a 1.800
mm/min max velocity, although all the sliders are in the max velocity just
as they where before homing. If I try to make a rapid move using MDI the
same thing happens.


In the .ini files of the later versions of LinuxCNC, there 
are DIFFERENT MAX_VELOCITY parameters
for JOINTS and AXES.  Before homing, you move joints, after 
homing you move axes.  You almost
certainly have different numbers in these different sections 
of your .ini file.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Forget all of that about the encoder. The setting of the  OFFSET_AV_RATIO
is what's causing the velocity issues. I forgot that had it too high.
Anyway I didn't expect the limitation without enabling the external offset
pin.

Sorry for all the monologue, but it's 2:00 am here and I'm a little bit
sleepy to function well :).

El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:55, Leonardo Marsaglia ()
escribió:

> Well now it seems to work ok.
>
> One problem I had was my simulated encoder was working in negative numbers
> at the position output. That happened when I tried to increase the sim
> encoder velocity from 0.1 to 0.5 (I don't know why). Anyway, since my
> offset component for cams isn't ready yet I didn't included reverse
> rotation of the spindle.
>
> Setting the speed to 0.1 again I don't have the negative output and the
> offset output at the component I use to make the cams is ok too. But all of
> this happened with the external offset enable pin on the FALSE state so I
> don't really know why the velocity and acceleration of the axis were
> limited.
>
> It seems strange to me anyway that something like that could cause the
> behaviour but I'm not that into the 2.8.0 version yet. Also I think is not
> a bad thing to share all of this in case this is a bug.
>
>
>
> El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:44, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>
>> It seems the external offset OFFSET_AV_RATIO is causing it. But I don't
>> have the external offset enable for any of the axis.
>>
>> Is this a bug?
>>
>> El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:37, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
>> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>>
>>> Just for the sake of understanding my max linear velocity is 1
>>> mm/min. (Here we use the dot as thousand separator).
>>>
>>> El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:34, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
>>> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>>>
 Hello guys,

 I'm finishing the final simulations and tests before mouting the new
 control into the machine. We're mounting it this friday.

 Everything is working as expected except one thing I just noticed
 trying to jog the axis on rapid.

 The behaviour is the following: When I start LinuxCNC and move the axis
 I get the maximum speed 10.000 mm/min. Once I hit the home buttons for both
 axis (no limits linked yet since I'm testing the config) I get a 1.800
 mm/min max velocity, although all the sliders are in the max velocity just
 as they where before homing. If I try to make a rapid move using MDI the
 same thing happens.

 Do you know what can cause this behaviour? I tried to google similar
 problems but didn't find anything. I'm using the 2.8.0 version of LinuxCNC.

 Thanks as always!

>>>

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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Well now it seems to work ok.

One problem I had was my simulated encoder was working in negative numbers
at the position output. That happened when I tried to increase the sim
encoder velocity from 0.1 to 0.5 (I don't know why). Anyway, since my
offset component for cams isn't ready yet I didn't included reverse
rotation of the spindle.

Setting the speed to 0.1 again I don't have the negative output and the
offset output at the component I use to make the cams is ok too. But all of
this happened with the external offset enable pin on the FALSE state so I
don't really know why the velocity and acceleration of the axis were
limited.

It seems strange to me anyway that something like that could cause the
behaviour but I'm not that into the 2.8.0 version yet. Also I think is not
a bad thing to share all of this in case this is a bug.



El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:44, Leonardo Marsaglia ()
escribió:

> It seems the external offset OFFSET_AV_RATIO is causing it. But I don't
> have the external offset enable for any of the axis.
>
> Is this a bug?
>
> El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:37, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>
>> Just for the sake of understanding my max linear velocity is 1
>> mm/min. (Here we use the dot as thousand separator).
>>
>> El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:34, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
>> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>>
>>> Hello guys,
>>>
>>> I'm finishing the final simulations and tests before mouting the new
>>> control into the machine. We're mounting it this friday.
>>>
>>> Everything is working as expected except one thing I just noticed trying
>>> to jog the axis on rapid.
>>>
>>> The behaviour is the following: When I start LinuxCNC and move the axis
>>> I get the maximum speed 10.000 mm/min. Once I hit the home buttons for both
>>> axis (no limits linked yet since I'm testing the config) I get a 1.800
>>> mm/min max velocity, although all the sliders are in the max velocity just
>>> as they where before homing. If I try to make a rapid move using MDI the
>>> same thing happens.
>>>
>>> Do you know what can cause this behaviour? I tried to google similar
>>> problems but didn't find anything. I'm using the 2.8.0 version of LinuxCNC.
>>>
>>> Thanks as always!
>>>
>>

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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

It seems the external offset OFFSET_AV_RATIO is causing it. But I don't
have the external offset enable for any of the axis.

Is this a bug?

El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:37, Leonardo Marsaglia ()
escribió:

> Just for the sake of understanding my max linear velocity is 1 mm/min.
> (Here we use the dot as thousand separator).
>
> El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:34, Leonardo Marsaglia (<
> ldmarsag...@gmail.com>) escribió:
>
>> Hello guys,
>>
>> I'm finishing the final simulations and tests before mouting the new
>> control into the machine. We're mounting it this friday.
>>
>> Everything is working as expected except one thing I just noticed trying
>> to jog the axis on rapid.
>>
>> The behaviour is the following: When I start LinuxCNC and move the axis I
>> get the maximum speed 10.000 mm/min. Once I hit the home buttons for both
>> axis (no limits linked yet since I'm testing the config) I get a 1.800
>> mm/min max velocity, although all the sliders are in the max velocity just
>> as they where before homing. If I try to make a rapid move using MDI the
>> same thing happens.
>>
>> Do you know what can cause this behaviour? I tried to google similar
>> problems but didn't find anything. I'm using the 2.8.0 version of LinuxCNC.
>>
>> Thanks as always!
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Just for the sake of understanding my max linear velocity is 1 mm/min.
(Here we use the dot as thousand separator).

El mié., 18 mar. 2020 a las 1:34, Leonardo Marsaglia ()
escribió:

> Hello guys,
>
> I'm finishing the final simulations and tests before mouting the new
> control into the machine. We're mounting it this friday.
>
> Everything is working as expected except one thing I just noticed trying
> to jog the axis on rapid.
>
> The behaviour is the following: When I start LinuxCNC and move the axis I
> get the maximum speed 10.000 mm/min. Once I hit the home buttons for both
> axis (no limits linked yet since I'm testing the config) I get a 1.800
> mm/min max velocity, although all the sliders are in the max velocity just
> as they where before homing. If I try to make a rapid move using MDI the
> same thing happens.
>
> Do you know what can cause this behaviour? I tried to google similar
> problems but didn't find anything. I'm using the 2.8.0 version of LinuxCNC.
>
> Thanks as always!
>

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[Emc-users] Slow decreased speed/accel after homing

[Leonardo Marsaglia]

Hello guys,

I'm finishing the final simulations and tests before mouting the new
control into the machine. We're mounting it this friday.

Everything is working as expected except one thing I just noticed trying to
jog the axis on rapid.

The behaviour is the following: When I start LinuxCNC and move the axis I
get the maximum speed 10.000 mm/min. Once I hit the home buttons for both
axis (no limits linked yet since I'm testing the config) I get a 1.800
mm/min max velocity, although all the sliders are in the max velocity just
as they where before homing. If I try to make a rapid move using MDI the
same thing happens.

Do you know what can cause this behaviour? I tried to google similar
problems but didn't find anything. I'm using the 2.8.0 version of LinuxCNC.

Thanks as always!

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