subject:"Re\: \[Emc\-users\] Acorn CNC"

Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2024-02-23 Thread gene heskett


On 9/8/22 13:10, John Dammeyer wrote:

I didn't see anything on the Acorn that suggests it supports a Charge Pump to 
protect the system if the PC goes bye-bye.

For that matter, small survey question here,  how many people running LinuxCNC 
are actually using a Charge Pump for safety?

I have but safety was not a prime consideration at the time. I was out 
of i/o and setup an addreesable sceme to add another decoder giving me 7 
more things I could control. PITA to setup PITA to use, since replaced 
with a 7i76.  Yonks ago now.

John


-Original Message-
From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
Sent: September-08-22 1:08 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 07:43,  wrote:


Would a Tormach with PathPilot allow me to drop into programming mode
easily?


I would expect so, the G-code is exactly the same (other than,
possibly, different handing of T in lathe mode)

--
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
� George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-10 Thread John Dammeyer

Port #1 of my MESA 7i92H is connected to the PMDX-126 DB25.
I reversed engineered that far east BoB.  Here's the schematic.  

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/MACH3InterfaceBoB.pdf

I have it connected to Port #2 of my 7i92H since my PMDX-126 can't do 
everything I want for Port #2.  

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-09-22 6:39 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> I did a little video where I made a charge pump to work with one of those
> cheap BOBs...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RErLu73-Xno
> 
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 8:00 AM  wrote:
> 
> > On 2022-09-09 07:19, m...@mattshaver.com wrote:
> >
> > > I am in awe of Den-Mother Steve for his ability to make good
> > > quality electronic stuff at a reasonable price!
> >
> > Oops! just realized this was emc-users, not the CAMS list (Chesapeake
> > Area Metalworking Society http://www.cams-club.org/). I was trying to
> > refer to Steve Stallings of Practical Micro Design
> > (http://www.pmdx.com/). It's too early for me :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Matt
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-10 Thread John Dammeyer

Port #1 of my MESA 7i92H is connected to the PMDX-126 DB25.
I reversed engineered that far east BoB.  Here's the schematic.  

http://www.autoartisans.com/mill/MACH3InterfaceBoB.pdf

I have it connected to Port #2 of my 7i92H since my PMDX-126 can't do 
everything I want for Port #2.  

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-09-22 6:39 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> I did a little video where I made a charge pump to work with one of those
> cheap BOBs...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RErLu73-Xno
> 
> On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 8:00 AM  wrote:
> 
> > On 2022-09-09 07:19, m...@mattshaver.com wrote:
> >
> > > I am in awe of Den-Mother Steve for his ability to make good
> > > quality electronic stuff at a reasonable price!
> >
> > Oops! just realized this was emc-users, not the CAMS list (Chesapeake
> > Area Metalworking Society http://www.cams-club.org/). I was trying to
> > refer to Steve Stallings of Practical Micro Design
> > (http://www.pmdx.com/). It's too early for me :)
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Matt
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> ___
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MACH3InterfaceBoB.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread Chris Albertson

Clearly, hobby users are not the target market.   I think Autodesk figured
this out.  They give the product away to hobby users and students but
charge about $500 to those who want to buy support.

No one who is making money with your product wants to depend on a web forum
or an e-mail list for support.  They would MUCH rather pay for it and get
help with no delay who will work with you until the issue is resolved.

Tormach users do pay for support.  The money is all front-loaded in the
cost of the machine.  I'd gues that half the price of their $12,000 machine
is overhead, not actual manufacturing cost.  They might be paying $6k for
ease of use, online tutorials and costomer support

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 12:36 PM Bari  wrote:

> On 9/9/22 13:15, Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > So If I were to start a CNC machine related business today.  I'd design a
> > turnkey system, PCBs and all and place the design online.  Hobby users
> > could download it and have the parts made.  Those with more money than
> > skill could hire me as a consultant.  I'd work over Zoom and remotely log
> > into their computer and make stuff work.
> >
> > You could make money with LCNC if you turned it into a product people
> could
> > unbox and it "just works" and if paid professional one-on-one support was
> > available.   That is what Tormach has done.
>
> Do you have any idea how little hobby users wish to pay for support?
>
> Tormach makes a profit off selling their machines, not in post sales
> support.
>
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread Feral Engineer

Hobby users barely even want to pay for the motors to run the damn
machines

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
20% off of your order 

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022, 3:36 PM Bari  wrote:

> On 9/9/22 13:15, Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > So If I were to start a CNC machine related business today.  I'd design a
> > turnkey system, PCBs and all and place the design online.  Hobby users
> > could download it and have the parts made.  Those with more money than
> > skill could hire me as a consultant.  I'd work over Zoom and remotely log
> > into their computer and make stuff work.
> >
> > You could make money with LCNC if you turned it into a product people
> could
> > unbox and it "just works" and if paid professional one-on-one support was
> > available.   That is what Tormach has done.
>
> Do you have any idea how little hobby users wish to pay for support?
>
> Tormach makes a profit off selling their machines, not in post sales
> support.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread Bari


On 9/9/22 13:15, Chris Albertson wrote:


So If I were to start a CNC machine related business today.  I'd design a
turnkey system, PCBs and all and place the design online.  Hobby users
could download it and have the parts made.  Those with more money than
skill could hire me as a consultant.  I'd work over Zoom and remotely log
into their computer and make stuff work.

You could make money with LCNC if you turned it into a product people could
unbox and it "just works" and if paid professional one-on-one support was
available.   That is what Tormach has done.


Do you have any idea how little hobby users wish to pay for support?

Tormach makes a profit off selling their machines, not in post sales 
support.




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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread Chris Albertson

>
> I don't know how anyone
> makes a living in electronics manufacturing given the low price
> expectations of the modern world. I gave up on it more than 10 years ago

The way you make money today in electronics is in design and services.
Manufacturing brings you only a few dollars per unit. But engineers in the
Bay Area make low to mid 6-digit income   You do not want to be in the
manufacturing end of this.

What does it say on the back of your iPhone?  "Designed in California, made
in China"   That is a good division of labor.   It used to be that the
Chinese stuff was junk because the labor was unskilled, but today it is all
done by robots and CNC.

So If I were to start a CNC machine related business today.  I'd design a
turnkey system, PCBs and all and place the design online.  Hobby users
could download it and have the parts made.  Those with more money than
skill could hire me as a consultant.  I'd work over Zoom and remotely log
into their computer and make stuff work.

You could make money with LCNC if you turned it into a product people could
unbox and it "just works" and if paid professional one-on-one support was
available.   That is what Tormach has done.

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 5:22 AM  wrote:

> On 2022-09-08 16:59, Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > But I was thinking,  Now that we have companies like JLCPCB who can
> > make
> > printed circuit boards and solder components for well under $1 per PCB,
> > I
> > would not want to be in the business of making and selling small
> > electronic
> > devices.   I would design this thing so that it used only parts from
> > JLCPCB's "short list" to keep the cost under $1. Post the design files
> > and
> > let people order their own directly from the manufacturer.
>
> You have "hit the nail on the head"! I think I was charging about
> $60/each. The relay (safety rated) alone was close to $10 from Digikey
> (about $15 now, just looked, and out of stock), plus the socket, plus
> everything else... It was all high quality components, as you would hope
> they would be for any device in the ESTOP chain. I don't know how anyone
> makes a living in electronics manufacturing given the low price
> expectations of the modern world. I gave up on it more than 10 years ago
> and I am in awe of Den-Mother Steve for his ability to make good quality
> electronic stuff at a reasonable price! Like the old saying, "An
> engineer can do for a dime what anyone else can do for a dollar".
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread Sam Sokolik

I did a little video where I made a charge pump to work with one of those
cheap BOBs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RErLu73-Xno

On Fri, Sep 9, 2022 at 8:00 AM  wrote:

> On 2022-09-09 07:19, m...@mattshaver.com wrote:
>
> > I am in awe of Den-Mother Steve for his ability to make good
> > quality electronic stuff at a reasonable price!
>
> Oops! just realized this was emc-users, not the CAMS list (Chesapeake
> Area Metalworking Society http://www.cams-club.org/). I was trying to
> refer to Steve Stallings of Practical Micro Design
> (http://www.pmdx.com/). It's too early for me :)
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
>
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>

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread matt


On 2022-09-09 07:19, m...@mattshaver.com wrote:


I am in awe of Den-Mother Steve for his ability to make good
quality electronic stuff at a reasonable price!


Oops! just realized this was emc-users, not the CAMS list (Chesapeake 
Area Metalworking Society http://www.cams-club.org/). I was trying to 
refer to Steve Stallings of Practical Micro Design 
(http://www.pmdx.com/). It's too early for me :)


Thanks,
Matt


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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread matt


On 2022-09-09 02:05, Chris Albertson wrote:

The PCB indstry has a "standard" file format, like g-code.  They call 
it
"Gerber files"  the best free software is KiCAD.  The "photo" in the 
above
link is actually a render made by KiCAD before the part was 
manufactured.

It is easy to do really basic stuff like this.


No, it really is a photo! I never learned to do the renders from KiCAD, 
but that's what I use and you're right, it's the best!


My idea for a "perfect" LCNC setup is to design a "motherboard" and 
then

plug in all the other parts.   There would be no wires


The above statement is the truest statement you can make about CNCs. 
It's the wiring labor that kills you on cost and Chris' idea has gone 
through my head a million times. The problem it getting high current 
devices like contactors and drives in a PCB or socketable form. Still, 
it's the "right way" absolutely!


Thanks,
Matt


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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread matt


On 2022-09-08 16:59, Chris Albertson wrote:

But I was thinking,  Now that we have companies like JLCPCB who can 
make
printed circuit boards and solder components for well under $1 per PCB, 
I
would not want to be in the business of making and selling small 
electronic

devices.   I would design this thing so that it used only parts from
JLCPCB's "short list" to keep the cost under $1. Post the design files 
and

let people order their own directly from the manufacturer.


You have "hit the nail on the head"! I think I was charging about 
$60/each. The relay (safety rated) alone was close to $10 from Digikey 
(about $15 now, just looked, and out of stock), plus the socket, plus 
everything else... It was all high quality components, as you would hope 
they would be for any device in the ESTOP chain. I don't know how anyone 
makes a living in electronics manufacturing given the low price 
expectations of the modern world. I gave up on it more than 10 years ago 
and I am in awe of Den-Mother Steve for his ability to make good quality 
electronic stuff at a reasonable price! Like the old saying, "An 
engineer can do for a dime what anyone else can do for a dollar".


Thanks,
Matt


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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread andy pugh

On Fri, 9 Sept 2022 at 11:05, gene heskett  wrote:

> A very good writeup, something I would definitely do if I had need for
> qty's >1.

I frequently have 5 boards made for one-offs. Proper boards with
screen print and solder resist are just so much nicer.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread gene heskett


On 9/9/22 03:10, Chris Albertson wrote:

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 7:04 PM gene heskett  wrote:


On 9/8/22 18:03, Chris Albertson wrote:
A very good writeup, something I would definitely do if I had need for 
qty's >1.

Most of what I do is one offs. Thank you for a detailed answer.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-09 Thread Chris Albertson

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 7:04 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 9/8/22 18:03, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > I did not know about these.  Thanks so much for posting.   So, after the
> > software stops cycling the output pins, the 10 uf cap discharges through
> > 750 Ohm the opto-isolator's LED and the relay opens. I will have to
> > calculate the time delay, but my back of the envelope says about 0.02
> > seconds.  Is that close to what you observe?  Or did I miss a decimal
> place?
> >
> > It looks like you have a good design and if you can sell these at a
> > reasonable price they should be standard equipment.
> >
> > But I was thinking,  Now that we have companies like JLCPCB who can make
> > printed circuit boards and solder components for well under $1 per PCB, I
> > would not want to be in the business of making and selling small
> electronic
> > devices.   I would design this thing so that it used only parts from
> > JLCPCB's "short list" to keep the cost under $1. Post the design files
> and
> > let people order their own directly from the manufacturer.
>

> An interesting idea. Any idea of the delay to expect after they receive
> the order and the
> payment?
>

24 hours from design file to finished product. Plus shipping time from
China. You can pay for overnight shipping from China or cheaper for slower
shipping.   There is zero setup fee if you use parts from their "short
list" of a few thousand parts, as these few thousand are always loaded on
the pick and place machine.

For a flat $2 you get five boards, 2 or 4 layers, each up to 100mm square.
Bulk pricing is $56 per square meter.   Basically the current cost of small
PCBs is so close to zero that it may as well be free.  https://jlcpcb.com/

They do charge extra for the parts but only the cost of the part.  Most
passive parts like resisters are fraction of a penny, perhaps $0.002 each.
 A microcontroller might cost a few dollars and a 10 uf electrolytic cap 3
to 10 cents.

PCBs are so cheap I used them for stupid purposes  like a PCB with only
connectors just to route signals and avoid "rat's nest"  You don't need an
EE degree to make a PCB with no parts.   Here is one I made just to
conectorize a breakout board.  This is like a "hat" but it goes under the
tiny computer board.  The part I had them make is the green board in this
photo https://github.com/chrisalbertson/NeatoLidarInterfacePCB  I paid $2
for five copies

So if you wanted one of these (you don't, they are obsolete) you would
download my Github project and then drag and drop the design files to the
web site linked above.

Shipping is not cheap.  DHL does not give discounts just because
the content of the package is only $2 so it pays to wait until you need a
bunch of different PCBs as they charge per package.

The PCB indstry has a "standard" file format, like g-code.  They call it
"Gerber files"  the best free software is KiCAD.  The "photo" in the above
link is actually a render made by KiCAD before the part was manufactured.
It is easy to do really basic stuff like this.

My idea for a "perfect" LCNC setup is to design a "motherboard" and then
plug in all the other parts.   There would be no wires

The quality is first rate as this is a top tier manufacture.  They process
20,000 orders per day, so a minimum of 100,000 PCBs per day. Obviously not
a garage shop operation.

The catch?  You had best use parts from this list or the cast and time goes
way up. https://jlcpcb.com/parts

> My concern with this is that it does not catch a failure where only the
> > user space program crashes and the kernel-space task continues to run.
> > Perhaps something else can watch for this?
>

> I have not ever observed that.  Not saying it cannot happen, but based
> on my experience,
> someplace between pretty slim and point triple ought zip.
>

It would be rare on tested and released code.  but I'd thinking of using
this on robotics code I wrote when testing it for the first time.  It will
almost certainly fail.  I've burned up motors commanding them past limits
then crashing.

>
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 2:15 PM  wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-09-08 15:55, andy pugh wrote:
> >>> I rely on the Mesa watchdog. If I was running a system that couldn't
> >>> do that then I would start looking t watchdog circuits, though last
> >>> time I looked I didn't see anything that simply opened a relay if the
> >>> charge pump stopped.
> >> I actually make this:
> >>
> >> http://www.mattshaver.com/site.php?link=pcbs/cp2estop/index.htm
> >>
> >> It was used in Smithy machines and I have a bunch of them left. Haven't
> >> sold one in years and don't know what they should cost anymore, but if
> >> someone needs one I could look into it! :)
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Matt
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> --
> "There are four

Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread gene heskett


On 9/8/22 18:03, Chris Albertson wrote:

I did not know about these.  Thanks so much for posting.   So, after the
software stops cycling the output pins, the 10 uf cap discharges through
750 Ohm the opto-isolator's LED and the relay opens. I will have to
calculate the time delay, but my back of the envelope says about 0.02
seconds.  Is that close to what you observe?  Or did I miss a decimal place?

It looks like you have a good design and if you can sell these at a
reasonable price they should be standard equipment.

But I was thinking,  Now that we have companies like JLCPCB who can make
printed circuit boards and solder components for well under $1 per PCB, I
would not want to be in the business of making and selling small electronic
devices.   I would design this thing so that it used only parts from
JLCPCB's "short list" to keep the cost under $1. Post the design files and
let people order their own directly from the manufacturer.
An interesting idea. Any idea of the delay to expect after they receive 
the order and the

payment?

How about what most folks call NRE?

My concern with this is that it does not catch a failure where only the
user space program crashes and the kernel-space task continues to run.
Perhaps something else can watch for this?
I have not ever observed that.  Not saying it cannot happen, but based 
on my experience,

someplace between pretty slim and point triple ought zip.



On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 2:15 PM  wrote:


On 2022-09-08 15:55, andy pugh wrote:

I rely on the Mesa watchdog. If I was running a system that couldn't
do that then I would start looking t watchdog circuits, though last
time I looked I didn't see anything that simply opened a relay if the
charge pump stopped.

I actually make this:

http://www.mattshaver.com/site.php?link=pcbs/cp2estop/index.htm

It was used in Smithy machines and I have a bunch of them left. Haven't
sold one in years and don't know what they should cost anymore, but if
someone needs one I could look into it! :)

Thanks,
Matt


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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread Chris Albertson

I did not know about these.  Thanks so much for posting.   So, after the
software stops cycling the output pins, the 10 uf cap discharges through
750 Ohm the opto-isolator's LED and the relay opens. I will have to
calculate the time delay, but my back of the envelope says about 0.02
seconds.  Is that close to what you observe?  Or did I miss a decimal place?

It looks like you have a good design and if you can sell these at a
reasonable price they should be standard equipment.

But I was thinking,  Now that we have companies like JLCPCB who can make
printed circuit boards and solder components for well under $1 per PCB, I
would not want to be in the business of making and selling small electronic
devices.   I would design this thing so that it used only parts from
JLCPCB's "short list" to keep the cost under $1. Post the design files and
let people order their own directly from the manufacturer.

My concern with this is that it does not catch a failure where only the
user space program crashes and the kernel-space task continues to run.
Perhaps something else can watch for this?

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 2:15 PM  wrote:

> On 2022-09-08 15:55, andy pugh wrote:
> > I rely on the Mesa watchdog. If I was running a system that couldn't
> > do that then I would start looking t watchdog circuits, though last
> > time I looked I didn't see anything that simply opened a relay if the
> > charge pump stopped.
>
> I actually make this:
>
> http://www.mattshaver.com/site.php?link=pcbs/cp2estop/index.htm
>
> It was used in Smithy machines and I have a bunch of them left. Haven't
> sold one in years and don't know what they should cost anymore, but if
> someone needs one I could look into it! :)
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>
>
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>

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread gene heskett


On 9/8/22 13:10, John Dammeyer wrote:

I didn't see anything on the Acorn that suggests it supports a Charge Pump to 
protect the system if the PC goes bye-bye.

For that matter, small survey question here,  how many people running LinuxCNC 
are actually using a Charge Pump for safety?

John
I was for a while but am not now. At the time I was cutting out blanket 
chest parts in Green & Green
style joinery, i had 2 rigged to control the board locator and the 
vacuum on my carving jig, which I
had to move out of the tool path once the board was clamped. The 2nd one 
started the bucket vac
to clean up the mahogany swarf as the tool moved. I sure wouldn't call 
that pc byby insurance...

Just shade tree engineering.  :)

It is a decent, one pin control solution if 500 millisecond response 
time can be tolerated.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread matt


On 2022-09-08 15:55, andy pugh wrote:

I rely on the Mesa watchdog. If I was running a system that couldn't
do that then I would start looking t watchdog circuits, though last
time I looked I didn't see anything that simply opened a relay if the
charge pump stopped.


I actually make this:

http://www.mattshaver.com/site.php?link=pcbs/cp2estop/index.htm

It was used in Smithy machines and I have a bunch of them left. Haven't 
sold one in years and don't know what they should cost anymore, but if 
someone needs one I could look into it! :)


Thanks,
Matt


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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread andy pugh

On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 18:09, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> For that matter, small survey question here,  how many people running 
> LinuxCNC are actually using a Charge Pump for safety?

I rely on the Mesa watchdog. If I was running a system that couldn't
do that then I would start looking t watchdog circuits, though last
time I looked I didn't see anything that simply opened a relay if the
charge pump stopped.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread andy pugh

On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 20:07, Martin Dobbins  wrote:
>
> It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-LrJtVN0bo

I had thought that there was a live preview. It looks like we already
have conversational lathe, if the Tormach approach counts:

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/41-guis/26550-lathe-macros?start=240#247196

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread Martin Dobbins

It is said that a picture is worth a thousand words

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-LrJtVN0bo

Perish the thought that we might have to look at words instead of pictures, but 
what I really like about Linuxcnc is it will accept parameter driven g-code 
both global and local.  Saves having to reinvent the wheel over and over.

YMMV

regards,
Martin



From: John Dammeyer

Thanks Peter.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com]
> Sent: September-08-22 1:54 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
>
> Hi John,
>
> PathPilot has a lot of similarities with Mach3. John Prentice had quite
> a hand in the interface. I'd been using the Mach3 Aqua screenset and I
> found the transition seemless.
>
> https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5.0;attach=14352
>
> I really like PathPilot as it has all the functions I want built in and
> they are rock solid. All their probing wizards work without issue. And
> the tool offset setting from a tool height setter works really well.
>
> One of the other reasons is that the Fusion 360 post processor supports
> probing
>
> Here is the thread of my conversion. It may have some helpful
> information if you plan to do something similar.
>
> https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/429214-pathpilot-mesa-7i92h-geckodrive-g540.html
>
> There is also this forum
>
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot
>
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot/45846-pathpilot-7i92-g540-hal-file
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Peter
>
>
> On 8/09/2022 5:51 am, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >  From that screen in the link it does look like PP has the same sort of 
> > graphical setup screens for simple
> operations that made MACH 3 so easy to run.
> >
> > I've yet to hear back from the Acorn supporter on how it's done there.
> >
> > The NativeCAM sounds like a good idea but it might not work on all 
> > installations and may have the same
> problem my probe software has.  At least I've not figured out how to fix it 
> without buying a bigger screen.
> Assuming my video card could even handle the wider screen.
> >
> > Attached is our standard user interface with G-Code loaded.  Since I'm 
> > limited on attachment size I'll follow
> up with another posting that shows the problem.  But notice this isn't a wide 
> 1080P type wide screen monitor.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: September-07-22 12:22 PM
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> >>
> >>> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or
> >>> clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must
> >>> one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
> >>> that shows how to do this?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This lets
> >> you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part and see
> >> how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I own a real
> >> PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online simulation I can move
> >> the code to my milling machine.
> >>
> >> I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for
> >> students taking PathPilot classes.
> >>
> >> The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but the
> >> mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you to
> >> program the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time safer
> >>
> >> The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
> >> https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Chris Albertson
> >> Redondo Beach, California
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> --
> -
> Web : http://www.homanndesigns.com
> email : gro...@homanndesigns.com
> Phone : +61 421 601 665
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread John Dammeyer

I didn't see anything on the Acorn that suggests it supports a Charge Pump to 
protect the system if the PC goes bye-bye.

For that matter, small survey question here,  how many people running LinuxCNC 
are actually using a Charge Pump for safety?

John

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-08-22 1:08 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 07:43,  wrote:
> 
> > Would a Tormach with PathPilot allow me to drop into programming mode
> > easily?
> 
> I would expect so, the G-code is exactly the same (other than,
> possibly, different handing of T in lathe mode)
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread John Dammeyer

Thanks Peter.
John

> -Original Message-
> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com]
> Sent: September-08-22 1:54 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> PathPilot has a lot of similarities with Mach3. John Prentice had quite
> a hand in the interface. I'd been using the Mach3 Aqua screenset and I
> found the transition seemless.
> 
> https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5.0;attach=14352
> 
> I really like PathPilot as it has all the functions I want built in and
> they are rock solid. All their probing wizards work without issue. And
> the tool offset setting from a tool height setter works really well.
> 
> One of the other reasons is that the Fusion 360 post processor supports
> probing
> 
> Here is the thread of my conversion. It may have some helpful
> information if you plan to do something similar.
> 
> https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/429214-pathpilot-mesa-7i92h-geckodrive-g540.html
> 
> There is also this forum
> 
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot
> 
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot/45846-pathpilot-7i92-g540-hal-file
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> On 8/09/2022 5:51 am, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >  From that screen in the link it does look like PP has the same sort of 
> > graphical setup screens for simple
> operations that made MACH 3 so easy to run.
> >
> > I've yet to hear back from the Acorn supporter on how it's done there.
> >
> > The NativeCAM sounds like a good idea but it might not work on all 
> > installations and may have the same
> problem my probe software has.  At least I've not figured out how to fix it 
> without buying a bigger screen.
> Assuming my video card could even handle the wider screen.
> >
> > Attached is our standard user interface with G-Code loaded.  Since I'm 
> > limited on attachment size I'll follow
> up with another posting that shows the problem.  But notice this isn't a wide 
> 1080P type wide screen monitor.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: September-07-22 12:22 PM
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> >>
> >>> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or
> >>> clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must
> >>> one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
> >>> that shows how to do this?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This lets
> >> you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part and see
> >> how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I own a real
> >> PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online simulation I can move
> >> the code to my milling machine.
> >>
> >> I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for
> >> students taking PathPilot classes.
> >>
> >> The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but the
> >> mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you to
> >> program the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time safer
> >>
> >> The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
> >> https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Chris Albertson
> >> Redondo Beach, California
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Emc-users mailing list
> >> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> --
> -
> Web : http://www.homanndesigns.com
> email : gro...@homanndesigns.com
> Phone : +61 421 601 665
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread Mark Wendt

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 12:01 PM gene heskett  wrote:

> On 9/8/22 09:10, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:07 AM gene heskett 
> wrote:
> >
> >> There is your first mistake GEDIT. It will eventually play 52 pickup
> >> with your code. I banned it from
> >> any system here years ago, Switched to geany as a nearly work alike, and
> >> have not had a single
> >> instance of gibberish that I didn't type since. The 3rd time it
> >> destroyed a 700+ LOC .hal file for me
> >> and it took me a week or more to recreate it was the last straw.
> >>
> > Not sure why you've had issues with gedit.  I've used that application
> for
> > nigh on 25 years and never had a problem with it, whether writing
> > complicated shell scripts, programming in different languages.  It's
> still
> > a staple application I use quite often
> >
> I came to the conclusion something was messing with its buffer list.
> About the 100th time you
> saved your file and reran linuxcnc to check the results, it would forget
> 300 lines of code, and
> insert copies of a random paragraph several times at random location in
> the code. Totally
> destroying any resemblance to a functioning .hal file.
>
> Each time it happened, the machine then passed 2 to 5 full passes of
> memtest86,  three different machines.
>
> The only common part was gedit.
>
> nano needs to have an alias to "nano -Sl ", which gets you line numbers
> and smooth scrolling. I use
> it a lot, but it cannot make hard copy. that I've found.
>
> geany works a lot like gedit but if you want hard copy to go put with
> the machine geany has that, and has
> yet in the ensuing decade+ to scramble a file.
>
> Take care & stay well, Mark.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
>

Well Gene, like I said, I used it for programming a lot, with 1000's of
lines of code per file and never experienced any of those issues.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread gene heskett


On 9/8/22 09:10, Mark Wendt wrote:

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:07 AM gene heskett  wrote:


There is your first mistake GEDIT. It will eventually play 52 pickup
with your code. I banned it from
any system here years ago, Switched to geany as a nearly work alike, and
have not had a single
instance of gibberish that I didn't type since. The 3rd time it
destroyed a 700+ LOC .hal file for me
and it took me a week or more to recreate it was the last straw.


Not sure why you've had issues with gedit.  I've used that application for
nigh on 25 years and never had a problem with it, whether writing
complicated shell scripts, programming in different languages.  It's still
a staple application I use quite often

I came to the conclusion something was messing with its buffer list. 
About the 100th time you
saved your file and reran linuxcnc to check the results, it would forget 
300 lines of code, and
insert copies of a random paragraph several times at random location in 
the code. Totally

destroying any resemblance to a functioning .hal file.

Each time it happened, the machine then passed 2 to 5 full passes of 
memtest86,  three different machines.


The only common part was gedit.

nano needs to have an alias to "nano -Sl ", which gets you line numbers 
and smooth scrolling. I use

it a lot, but it cannot make hard copy. that I've found.

geany works a lot like gedit but if you want hard copy to go put with 
the machine geany has that, and has

yet in the ensuing decade+ to scramble a file.

Take care & stay well, Mark.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread andy pugh

On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 14:36, Sam Sokolik  wrote:
>
> Same..  I have used whatever gui editor is installed..  (gedit, mousepad,
> whatever)  No weird behaviour..  (when not using nano for system files.. ;)

One reason not to install Gedit on Debian is that it pulls in most of
the Gnome desktop as a dependency. (Which is why the ISO has Geany
instead)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread Mark Wendt

Sam,

Yeah, but I'm also a proponent of vi as well, having used that editor since
the late 80's.  ;-)

Mark

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 9:36 AM Sam Sokolik  wrote:

> Same..  I have used whatever gui editor is installed..  (gedit, mousepad,
> whatever)  No weird behaviour..  (when not using nano for system files.. ;)
> )
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:10 AM Mark Wendt  wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:07 AM gene heskett 
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > There is your first mistake GEDIT. It will eventually play 52 pickup
> > > with your code. I banned it from
> > > any system here years ago, Switched to geany as a nearly work alike,
> and
> > > have not had a single
> > > instance of gibberish that I didn't type since. The 3rd time it
> > > destroyed a 700+ LOC .hal file for me
> > > and it took me a week or more to recreate it was the last straw.
> > >
> >
> > Not sure why you've had issues with gedit.  I've used that application
> for
> > nigh on 25 years and never had a problem with it, whether writing
> > complicated shell scripts, programming in different languages.  It's
> still
> > a staple application I use quite often
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> > >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread Sam Sokolik

Same..  I have used whatever gui editor is installed..  (gedit, mousepad,
whatever)  No weird behaviour..  (when not using nano for system files.. ;)
)

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:10 AM Mark Wendt  wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:07 AM gene heskett  wrote:
>
> >
> > There is your first mistake GEDIT. It will eventually play 52 pickup
> > with your code. I banned it from
> > any system here years ago, Switched to geany as a nearly work alike, and
> > have not had a single
> > instance of gibberish that I didn't type since. The 3rd time it
> > destroyed a 700+ LOC .hal file for me
> > and it took me a week or more to recreate it was the last straw.
> >
>
> Not sure why you've had issues with gedit.  I've used that application for
> nigh on 25 years and never had a problem with it, whether writing
> complicated shell scripts, programming in different languages.  It's still
> a staple application I use quite often
>
> >
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett.
> >
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread Mark Wendt

On Thu, Sep 8, 2022 at 8:07 AM gene heskett  wrote:

>
> There is your first mistake GEDIT. It will eventually play 52 pickup
> with your code. I banned it from
> any system here years ago, Switched to geany as a nearly work alike, and
> have not had a single
> instance of gibberish that I didn't type since. The 3rd time it
> destroyed a 700+ LOC .hal file for me
> and it took me a week or more to recreate it was the last straw.
>

Not sure why you've had issues with gedit.  I've used that application for
nigh on 25 years and never had a problem with it, whether writing
complicated shell scripts, programming in different languages.  It's still
a staple application I use quite often

>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.
>

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread gene heskett


On 9/8/22 02:42, marcus.bow...@visible.eclipse.co.uk wrote:


Using LinuxCNC, I have a set of self-written wizards/demons in a folder.
Start LinuxCNC; load the demon I need; use GEDIT to set the user 
values of, say, Xwidth, Ybreadth, tool diameter.
There is your first mistake GEDIT. It will eventually play 52 pickup 
with your code. I banned it from
any system here years ago, Switched to geany as a nearly work alike, and 
have not had a single
instance of gibberish that I didn't type since. The 3rd time it 
destroyed a 700+ LOC .hal file for me

and it took me a week or more to recreate it was the last straw.

Reload in LinuxCNC and run it.
Not fully conversational, but reasonably quick and convenient. There 
is no additional screen or separate controls for the demons. They are 
just individual programs that do specific operations.


If demons are stored by name in the subroutine folder, it is 
relatively straightforward to load a short skeleton program and add 
CALLs to a sequence of named subroutines which are then pulled in and 
used automatically. To be honest, I seldom use that method because, 
being lazy, it's almost as easy to just load the Demons I need 
individually, in the sequence I need, to do a job.


So; while I would love a Tormach, the cost here is huge (40K GBP), and 
my cheap and cheerful method works pretty well most of the time.
I also 'enjoy' programming, which is where LinuxCNC scores against 
Mach because of the availability of proper structures like IF and WHEN 
and named variables, etc. I have always had a fully licenced Mach3, 
but much prefer the programming capabilities of LinuxCNC which I have 
used exclusively for some years now.
Would a Tormach with PathPilot allow me to drop into programming mode 
easily?


Marcus

Take care and stay well.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread Groups


Hi John,

PathPilot has a lot of similarities with Mach3. John Prentice had quite 
a hand in the interface. I'd been using the Mach3 Aqua screenset and I 
found the transition seemless.


https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5.0;attach=14352

I really like PathPilot as it has all the functions I want built in and 
they are rock solid. All their probing wizards work without issue. And 
the tool offset setting from a tool height setter works really well.


One of the other reasons is that the Fusion 360 post processor supports 
probing


Here is the thread of my conversion. It may have some helpful 
information if you plan to do something similar.


https://www.cnczone.com/forums/tormach-pathpilot-/429214-pathpilot-mesa-7i92h-geckodrive-g540.html

There is also this forum

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/pathpilot/45846-pathpilot-7i92-g540-hal-file

Cheers,


Peter


On 8/09/2022 5:51 am, John Dammeyer wrote:

 From that screen in the link it does look like PP has the same sort of 
graphical setup screens for simple operations that made MACH 3 so easy to run.

I've yet to hear back from the Acorn supporter on how it's done there.

The NativeCAM sounds like a good idea but it might not work on all 
installations and may have the same problem my probe software has.  At least 
I've not figured out how to fix it without buying a bigger screen. Assuming my 
video card could even handle the wider screen.

Attached is our standard user interface with G-Code loaded.  Since I'm limited 
on attachment size I'll follow up with another posting that shows the problem.  
But notice this isn't a wide 1080P type wide screen monitor.

John







-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
Sent: September-07-22 12:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC


And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or
clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must
one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?

Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
that shows how to do this?



Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This lets
you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part and see
how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I own a real
PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online simulation I can move
the code to my milling machine.

I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for
students taking PathPilot classes.

The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but the
mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you to
program the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time safer

The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller


--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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-
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email : gro...@homanndesigns.com
Phone : +61 421 601 665



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread andy pugh

On Thu, 8 Sept 2022 at 07:43,  wrote:

> Would a Tormach with PathPilot allow me to drop into programming mode
> easily?

I would expect so, the G-code is exactly the same (other than,
possibly, different handing of T in lathe mode)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-08 Thread marcus . bowman

Using LinuxCNC, I have a set of self-written wizards/demons in a folder.
Start LinuxCNC; load the demon I need; use GEDIT to set the user values 
of, say, Xwidth, Ybreadth, tool diameter.

Reload in LinuxCNC and run it.
Not fully conversational, but reasonably quick and convenient. There is 
no additional screen or separate controls for the demons. They are just 
individual programs that do specific operations.

If demons are stored by name in the subroutine folder, it is relatively 
straightforward to load a short skeleton program and add CALLs to a 
sequence of named subroutines which are then pulled in and used 
automatically. To be honest, I seldom use that method because, being 
lazy, it's almost as easy to just load the Demons I need individually, 
in the sequence I need, to do a job.

So; while I would love a Tormach, the cost here is huge (40K GBP), and 
my cheap and cheerful method works pretty well most of the time.
I also 'enjoy' programming, which is where LinuxCNC scores against Mach 
because of the availability of proper structures like IF and WHEN and 
named variables, etc. I have always had a fully licenced Mach3, but much 
prefer the programming capabilities of LinuxCNC which I have used 
exclusively for some years now.
Would a Tormach with PathPilot allow me to drop into programming mode 
easily?

Marcus

  On 2022-09-07 23:37, ken.stra...@sympatico.ca wrote:
All of the above! There is a conversational wizard screen that mostly 
does
what you want. For my work I would probably model it in CAD since 
facing

would be only a tiny part of the ultimate machining. As others have
suggested, try it yourself on Tormach Hub.

The only Tormach conversational stuff that I use often is thread 
milling.

Works a treat!

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer 
Sent: September 7, 2022 6:29 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

Awesome.  A Tormach user!

OK.  Say I have an aluminum plate casting that is 3"x7"x about 0.8".  I 
can
clamp it in the vise and set it so about 0.25" is above the edge of the 
vise

and it's pretty close to parallel with the XY plane.
I want to remove about 0.1" to make it flat.  To remove the sand 
casting

imperfections.  My shell mill with 4 carbide cutters is 2" in diameter.

So do you have the equivalent of a MACH3 wizard?
Or do you manually write G-Code?
Or first model it in CAD and then use CAM software to create the 
G-Code?

Thanks
John

-Original Message-
From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
Sent: September-07-22 2:42 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

I have a real Tormach and frequently use the hub to test hand coded
programs prior to running things on a real machine. No charge, much
safer and crashes never break a tool!

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson 
Sent: September 7, 2022 3:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

>
> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the
> vise or clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached
> photo or must one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
>
> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one
> attached that shows how to do this?
>

Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This
lets you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part
and see how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I
own a real PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online
simulation I can move the code to my milling machine.

I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for
students taking PathPilot classes.

The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but
the mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you
to program the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time
safer

The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread John Dammeyer

So this is one approach but it's a separate program that eventually costs.
https://www.cnccookbook.com/conversational-cnc-machine-programming-software/


> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer [mailto:jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: September-07-22 3:29 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> Awesome.  A Tormach user!
> 
> OK.  Say I have an aluminum plate casting that is 3"x7"x about 0.8".  I can 
> clamp it in the vise and set it so
> about 0.25" is above the edge of the vise and it's pretty close to parallel 
> with the XY plane.
> I want to remove about 0.1" to make it flat.  To remove the sand casting 
> imperfections.  My shell mill with 4
> carbide cutters is 2" in diameter.
> 
> So do you have the equivalent of a MACH3 wizard?
> Or do you manually write G-Code?
> Or first model it in CAD and then use CAM software to create the G-Code?
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> > Sent: September-07-22 2:42 PM
> > To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> >
> > I have a real Tormach and frequently use the hub to test hand coded programs
> > prior to running things on a real machine. No charge, much safer and crashes
> > never break a tool!
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson 
> > Sent: September 7, 2022 3:22 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> >
> > >
> > > And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise
> > > or clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or
> > > must one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
> > >
> > > Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
> > > that shows how to do this?
> > >
> >
> >
> > Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This lets
> > you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part and see
> > how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I own a real
> > PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online simulation I can move
> > the code to my milling machine.
> >
> > I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for students
> > taking PathPilot classes.
> >
> > The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but the
> > mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you to program
> > the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time safer
> >
> > The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
> > https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread ken.strauss

You boot from the USB and everything is installed magically. When it then boots 
from you HD it starts PathPilot (LinuxCNC). If no 5i25/6i25/7i95 is bound it 
errors. If the right signals are not supplied to your Mesa card it errors. You 
will then have setup HAL, etc and try again.

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: September 7, 2022 2:51 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

> From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> Yes and no. Pathpilot is free but it comes on a USB stick which is 
> chargeable. See https://tormach.com/search/?q=pathpilot%20upgrade
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer 
> > From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com] John,
> >
> > Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from 
> > Mach3 using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an 
> > interface closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Peter
> >
> 
> Peter
> How does one get Path Pilot?  Is it free?
> John

So we just pay $24.95+ shipping.  Insert into system and boot and it installs 
LinuxCNC and Path Pilot user interface?  And since I don't have Tormach I'd 
then have to go through the process of configuring the HAL and INI files?

And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or 
clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must one 
still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?

Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached that 
shows how to do this?

Thanks
John

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread ken.strauss

All of the above! There is a conversational wizard screen that mostly does
what you want. For my work I would probably model it in CAD since facing
would be only a tiny part of the ultimate machining. As others have
suggested, try it yourself on Tormach Hub.

The only Tormach conversational stuff that I use often is thread milling.
Works a treat!



-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: September 7, 2022 6:29 PM
To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)' 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

Awesome.  A Tormach user!
  
OK.  Say I have an aluminum plate casting that is 3"x7"x about 0.8".  I can
clamp it in the vise and set it so about 0.25" is above the edge of the vise
and it's pretty close to parallel with the XY plane.
I want to remove about 0.1" to make it flat.  To remove the sand casting
imperfections.  My shell mill with 4 carbide cutters is 2" in diameter.  

So do you have the equivalent of a MACH3 wizard?  
Or do you manually write G-Code?  
Or first model it in CAD and then use CAM software to create the G-Code?

Thanks
John



> -Original Message-
> From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> Sent: September-07-22 2:42 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> I have a real Tormach and frequently use the hub to test hand coded 
> programs prior to running things on a real machine. No charge, much 
> safer and crashes never break a tool!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson 
> Sent: September 7, 2022 3:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> >
> > And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the 
> > vise or clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached 
> > photo or must one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
> >
> > Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one 
> > attached that shows how to do this?
> >
> 
> 
> Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This 
> lets you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part 
> and see how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I 
> own a real PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online 
> simulation I can move the code to my milling machine.
> 
> I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for 
> students taking PathPilot classes.
> 
> The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but 
> the mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you 
> to program the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time 
> safer
> 
> The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below 
> https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread John Dammeyer

Awesome.  A Tormach user!
  
OK.  Say I have an aluminum plate casting that is 3"x7"x about 0.8".  I can 
clamp it in the vise and set it so about 0.25" is above the edge of the vise 
and it's pretty close to parallel with the XY plane.
I want to remove about 0.1" to make it flat.  To remove the sand casting 
imperfections.  My shell mill with 4 carbide cutters is 2" in diameter.  

So do you have the equivalent of a MACH3 wizard?  
Or do you manually write G-Code?  
Or first model it in CAD and then use CAM software to create the G-Code?

Thanks
John



> -Original Message-
> From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> Sent: September-07-22 2:42 PM
> To: 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> I have a real Tormach and frequently use the hub to test hand coded programs
> prior to running things on a real machine. No charge, much safer and crashes
> never break a tool!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson 
> Sent: September 7, 2022 3:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> >
> > And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise
> > or clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or
> > must one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
> >
> > Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
> > that shows how to do this?
> >
> 
> 
> Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This lets
> you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part and see
> how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I own a real
> PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online simulation I can move
> the code to my milling machine.
> 
> I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for students
> taking PathPilot classes.
> 
> The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but the
> mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you to program
> the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time safer
> 
> The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
> https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
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> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread ken.strauss

I have a real Tormach and frequently use the hub to test hand coded programs
prior to running things on a real machine. No charge, much safer and crashes
never break a tool!

-Original Message-
From: Chris Albertson  
Sent: September 7, 2022 3:22 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

>
> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise 
> or clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or 
> must one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
>
> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached 
> that shows how to do this?
>

Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This lets
you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part and see
how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I own a real
PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online simulation I can move
the code to my milling machine.

I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for students
taking PathPilot classes.

The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but the
mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you to program
the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time safer

The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller

--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread John Dammeyer

The scary thing about nativecam in that link is the number of I installed it 
but it doesn't work etc...
John

> From: Sam Sokolik [mailto:samco...@gmail.com]
> I always thought nativecam looked neat...  (I don't think I have ever
> played with it and I also think it is based on python2)  (so I don't know
> how up-to date it is)
> 
> https://forum.linuxcnc.org/nativecam
> 
> sam
> 
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 2:10 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:
> 
> > pathpilot is setup to run tormach machines.  There is no 'setup' program.
> >
> > sam
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 1:55 PM John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> > From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> >> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> >> >
> >> > Yes and no. Pathpilot is free but it comes on a USB stick which is
> >> > chargeable. See https://tormach.com/search/?q=pathpilot%20upgrade
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: John Dammeyer 
> >> > > From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com] John,
> >> > >
> >> > > Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3
> >> > > using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface
> >> > > closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheers,
> >> > >
> >> > > Peter
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Peter
> >> > How does one get Path Pilot?  Is it free?
> >> > John
> >>
> >>
> >> So we just pay $24.95+ shipping.  Insert into system and boot and it
> >> installs LinuxCNC and Path Pilot user interface?  And since I don't have
> >> Tormach I'd then have to go through the process of configuring the HAL and
> >> INI files?
> >>
> >> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or
> >> clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must
> >> one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
> >>
> >> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
> >> that shows how to do this?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> John



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread Chris Albertson

>
> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or
> clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must
> one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
>
> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
> that shows how to do this?
>


Better than a screenshot.  I just signed up for "PathPilot Hub"  This lets
you interact with an online simulated machine.  I can make a part and see
how the machine will cut it.  If I like the result and if I own a real
PathPilot machine than after trying it in the online simulation I can move
the code to my milling machine.

I have zero experience with this but it looks like this is used for
students taking PathPilot classes.

The other use for this might be if you need to program your mill but the
mill is cutting a part now.  Using the on-line version allows you to
program the mill while it is working.  This could be a huge time safer

The above is everything I know, the real info is at the link below
https://tormach.com/pathpilot-cnc-controller


--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread Sam Sokolik

I always thought nativecam looked neat...  (I don't think I have ever
played with it and I also think it is based on python2)  (so I don't know
how up-to date it is)

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/nativecam

sam

On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 2:10 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:

> pathpilot is setup to run tormach machines.  There is no 'setup' program.
>
> sam
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 1:55 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
>> > From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
>> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
>> >
>> > Yes and no. Pathpilot is free but it comes on a USB stick which is
>> > chargeable. See https://tormach.com/search/?q=pathpilot%20upgrade
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: John Dammeyer 
>> > > From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com] John,
>> > >
>> > > Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3
>> > > using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface
>> > > closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > >
>> > > Peter
>> > >
>> >
>> > Peter
>> > How does one get Path Pilot?  Is it free?
>> > John
>>
>>
>> So we just pay $24.95+ shipping.  Insert into system and boot and it
>> installs LinuxCNC and Path Pilot user interface?  And since I don't have
>> Tormach I'd then have to go through the process of configuring the HAL and
>> INI files?
>>
>> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or
>> clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must
>> one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
>>
>> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
>> that shows how to do this?
>>
>> Thanks
>> John
>>
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread Sam Sokolik

pathpilot is setup to run tormach machines.  There is no 'setup' program.

sam

On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 1:55 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> > From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> >
> > Yes and no. Pathpilot is free but it comes on a USB stick which is
> > chargeable. See https://tormach.com/search/?q=pathpilot%20upgrade
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Dammeyer 
> > > From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com] John,
> > >
> > > Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3
> > > using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface
> > > closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> >
> > Peter
> > How does one get Path Pilot?  Is it free?
> > John
>
>
> So we just pay $24.95+ shipping.  Insert into system and boot and it
> installs LinuxCNC and Path Pilot user interface?  And since I don't have
> Tormach I'd then have to go through the process of configuring the HAL and
> INI files?
>
> And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or
> clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must
> one still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?
>
> Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached
> that shows how to do this?
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread John Dammeyer

> From: ken.stra...@sympatico.ca [mailto:ken.stra...@sympatico.ca]
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> Yes and no. Pathpilot is free but it comes on a USB stick which is
> chargeable. See https://tormach.com/search/?q=pathpilot%20upgrade
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Dammeyer 
> > From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com] John,
> >
> > Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3
> > using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface
> > closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Peter
> >
> 
> Peter
> How does one get Path Pilot?  Is it free?
> John


So we just pay $24.95+ shipping.  Insert into system and boot and it installs 
LinuxCNC and Path Pilot user interface?  And since I don't have Tormach I'd 
then have to go through the process of configuring the HAL and INI files?

And for a simpler operating like surfacing something held in the vise or 
clamped to the table there's an approach like the attached photo or must one 
still write G-Code or use CAM to do this?

Perhaps a Path Pilot user can post a screen shot like the one attached that 
shows how to do this?

Thanks
John


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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread ken.strauss

Yes and no. Pathpilot is free but it comes on a USB stick which is
chargeable. See https://tormach.com/search/?q=pathpilot%20upgrade

-Original Message-
From: John Dammeyer  
Sent: September 7, 2022 11:57 AM
To: gro...@homanndesigns.com; 'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'

Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC


> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com] John,
> 
> Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3 
> using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface 
> closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Peter
> 

Peter
How does one get Path Pilot?  Is it free?  
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread John Dammeyer



> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com]
> John,
> 
> Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3
> using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface
> closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Peter
> 

Peter
How does one get Path Pilot?  Is it free?  
John




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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread gene heskett

veral offers of help with buildbot $ or gear have 
been made, all simply ignored.


TANSTAAFL guys. Somebody has to buy the beer and peanuts. ;o)>


-Original Message-
From: Ralph Stirling [mailto:ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu]
Sent: September-06-22 5:34 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC


What kind of machine does the potential Acorn buyer plan to control?
Most of these newer controls are aimed at vanilla 3-axis cartesian
machines.  They generate step/dir pulses, and have three home inputs,
and not a lot else.  LinuxCNC really shines when you have more complex
I/O needs, unusual kinematics, tool changers, integration with external
elements (bar feeders, robots, etc) and the like.  I haven't seen any of
the newer open source or low cost controllers address these more sophisticated
applications.

-- Ralph

From: John Dammeyer [jo...@autoartisans.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 5:06 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


If I was to offer an reason to go LinuxCNC to someone who is attracted to an 
Acorn system what would I say.
Other than the Acorn is really just a cape for a BeagleBone Black.  But the 
user interface is all via Ethernet so a
PC of some sort is still required.

There appear to be so many CNC systems out there now.  Even LinuxCNC now 
suffers from too many user
interfaces to the point where is the Tormach really still LinuxCNC or is it 
something different too?

Comments?
John



"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com


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.



Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread gene heskett


On 9/6/22 22:23, Feral Engineer wrote:

I thought path pilot started using a Linuxcnc fork from machine kit?

Centroid is appealing to new users because of a few reasons: ease of setup
(no hal), conversational (although not great) and a unified ecosystem of
hardware and software, with the ability to find a plug and play centroid
unit for almost every budget and type of machine (acorn, oak, all in one
dc). Plus, their macro logic is more fanuc-like from what I've seen
(includes the dreaded GOTO)

The selling point of LinuxCNC is price point and available power, if you're
willing to put in the time to learn. Not many people want to learn how to
configure hal/classicladder and pncconf has fallen behind and has acquired
some bugs to keep from working properly (can't add USB devices without it
locking up). With a well documented setup like a 7i75e, gecko g540 or a c10
chinabob, it's not crazy to say you can have motors moving in a couple of
hours but again, not many people want to spend the time messing with hal
configs. If there were more graphic based setup options, like the ones in
crap3, it might be more user friendly for beginners.

I'm not answering your question, I'm sure, but I'm giving insight from both
sides. I like LinuxCNC and the people involved are all great, but from a
general standpoint, the stumbling block is the learning curve but the
benefits are aplenty for those who want to learn.


Phil T.
The Feral Engineer
Exactly Phil.  Hal can be a puzzle to a new bee, but in my 40 some years 
of carving code
to do a job that humans found tedious at best, and yes it takes a bit 
but once
the concept of hal is grasped, there is not a thing that hasn't been 
doable once you
have an understanding. I've had to ask Andy or Peter for guidance at 
times and they've
always given me either a straight answer, or the door to open to find it 
myself.


I am not a for profit operation although it may develop that way, if my 
vise screw assembly
gains some fans.  You can see the first 3 of them on my web page such as 
it is. Compare
that with what you can buy for maybe $200 on ebay and you'll understand 
why I've thought
$500/copy might get a buyer or 10. TBT, each of the 3 pictured there is 
2 days carving the
screw and 2 weeks baby sitting a smaller Prusa 3d printer to make the 
rest of it. Per screw.


The last couple months has been spent rebuilding an Ender 5 Plus that 
failed the PETG test.
That's been quite a trip but it more than quadruples the working 
envelope of the Prusa.


None of this would have ever crossed my mind if I hadn't discovered 
LinuxCNC nearly
20 years ago. A tip of the hat to all who have helped me along the way. 
And give me hell
if, when you find my doorbell and intro yourself as a thirsty machinist 
and I don't fix the

thirsty before I offer the free $5 tour of my midden heap.  ;o)>

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
20% off of your order 

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:12 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:


If I was to offer an reason to go LinuxCNC to someone who is attracted to
an Acorn system what would I say.  Other than the Acorn is really just a
cape for a BeagleBone Black.  But the user interface is all via Ethernet so
a PC of some sort is still required.

There appear to be so many CNC systems out there now.  Even LinuxCNC now
suffers from too many user interfaces to the point where is the Tormach
really still LinuxCNC or is it something different too?

Comments?
John



"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com


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Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread Chris Albertson

Can you buy PathPilot without buying a Tormach machine?  I didn't think you
could have a stand alone copy of PathPilot

On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 1:55 AM Groups  wrote:

> John,
>
> Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3
> using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface
> closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
>
> On 7/09/2022 3:37 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> >> Sent: September-06-22 8:50 PM
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> >>
> >> On Tue, 6 Sep 2022, John Dammeyer wrote:
> >>
> >>> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 18:25:11 -0700
> >> A 7I96S is a much closer match to an Acorn (and has more
> >> basic I/O and more expandability) for $149
> >>
> >>
> >> A 7I95 allows 6 axis of encoder feedback (not something the Acorn can
> do)
> >>
> >> Peter Wallace
> >> Mesa Electronics
> > Thanks Peter,
> > I like that price better!
> > We're really back to the same issue which is ease of use.
> >
> > Search for and ask for the programs that do what wizards do in MACH and
> what it looks like Acorn can do with graphical menu choices.  Or find a
> bunch of programs, run them from the command line to generate the G-Code.
> >
> > I'll ask a few of the pro-Acorn users how they do certain things.  I
> know how to do them in MACH using a wizard.   In LinuxCNC I'll write the
> G-Code myself or use my CAD/CAM software.  Or just use the MDI to run the
> flycutter across a casting a few times.
> >
> > But most of the people who are somewhat 'anti-LinuxCNC' are not.
> Personally I think that's a problem.
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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>
> --
>
> -
> Web : http://www.homanndesigns.com
> email : gro...@homanndesigns.com
> Phone : +61 421 601 665
>
>
>
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-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread Groups


John,

Have a look at PathPilot. I've just converted my Mill to it from Mach3 
using a 7i92. It has the benefits of LinuxCNC but with an interface 
closer to Mach3 when it comes to wizards.


Cheers,

Peter

On 7/09/2022 3:37 pm, John Dammeyer wrote:



-Original Message-
From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: September-06-22 8:50 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

On Tue, 6 Sep 2022, John Dammeyer wrote:


Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 18:25:11 -0700

A 7I96S is a much closer match to an Acorn (and has more
basic I/O and more expandability) for $149


A 7I95 allows 6 axis of encoder feedback (not something the Acorn can do)

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

Thanks Peter,
I like that price better!
We're really back to the same issue which is ease of use.

Search for and ask for the programs that do what wizards do in MACH and what it 
looks like Acorn can do with graphical menu choices.  Or find a bunch of 
programs, run them from the command line to generate the G-Code.

I'll ask a few of the pro-Acorn users how they do certain things.  I know how 
to do them in MACH using a wizard.   In LinuxCNC I'll write the G-Code myself 
or use my CAD/CAM software.  Or just use the MDI to run the flycutter across a 
casting a few times.

But most of the people who are somewhat 'anti-LinuxCNC' are not.  Personally I 
think that's a problem.

John






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-
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email : gro...@homanndesigns.com
Phone : +61 421 601 665



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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-07 Thread John Dammeyer

> -Original Message-
> From: Peter C. Wallace [mailto:p...@mesanet.com]
> Sent: September-06-22 8:50 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> On Tue, 6 Sep 2022, John Dammeyer wrote:
> 
> > Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 18:25:11 -0700
> 
> A 7I96S is a much closer match to an Acorn (and has more
> basic I/O and more expandability) for $149
> 
> 
> A 7I95 allows 6 axis of encoder feedback (not something the Acorn can do)
> 
> >
> 
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics

Thanks Peter,
I like that price better!   
We're really back to the same issue which is ease of use.  

Search for and ask for the programs that do what wizards do in MACH and what it 
looks like Acorn can do with graphical menu choices.  Or find a bunch of 
programs, run them from the command line to generate the G-Code.

I'll ask a few of the pro-Acorn users how they do certain things.  I know how 
to do them in MACH using a wizard.   In LinuxCNC I'll write the G-Code myself 
or use my CAD/CAM software.  Or just use the MDI to run the flycutter across a 
casting a few times.

But most of the people who are somewhat 'anti-LinuxCNC' are not.  Personally I 
think that's a problem.

John

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-06 Thread John Dammeyer

Hi Phil,
Kinda what I said too.  Cost wise I don't think there's a difference.  It comes 
down to mentality.  One user stated he went Acorn because the parent company 
runs real CNC.  Whatever that means.

I still think the biggest obstacle to LinuxCNC is the first 5 letters of the 
name.  Doesn’t bug me but then I've done a project using a Pi3 interfaced with 
SPI to a PIC32.  And many decades ago a grad project with Unix on a PDP-10.

But I detest, if that's even a strong enough word, command line operation.  And 
so do most people which is, I believe, why there is such a resistance to Linux. 
 

So as the attached screen shot shows, I prefer that approach to a bunch of 
command line questions and answers until I get the correct G-Code.  So I 
suspect do 99.9% of the computer users.  The rest use Linux.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Feral Engineer [mailto:theferalengin...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-06-22 9:24 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> My hard and fast answer for why LinuxCNC would, again, come down to cost. A
> coofun GK41 mini pc has more than enough gusto to drive a Mesa board and if
> you have the right link on Amazon, will run you $169 before the United
> States of Legalized Extortion take their cut. A Mesa 7i96S is $149 and
> provides enough IO support for a good, basic machine (plus it's one of the
> only mesa cards in stock). The gk41 dual boots easier than any other
> computer I've installed LinuxCNC on, so you can keep the windows side for
> whatever sadistic reasons you may have and even a build from scratch
> deb11/2.9 install is a breeze (if you follow my video, of course ;} ). The
> stigma of learning Linux is slowly getting chipped away with enhancements
> to the Linux user experience (I run cinnamon on a few of my computers just
> because it looks nice).
> 
> As far as limit and probing IO, there are a bunch of ways to consolidate
> inputs. For starters, if you are running 2 limits per axis, just wire them
> in parallel (NO) or series (NC). Same can be done with the tool setter and
> probe as long as you have a way to circumvent the circuit trigger when the
> spindle probe is disconnected. Case in point, my tool setter and spindle
> probe are both NC when connected, but the probe is detachable from the
> wire, essentially making it NO until it's connected. This makes for an
> unhappy trigger signal. To fix this, I originally used a spdt switch, then
> moved to a spdt relay, finally to classicladder logic and two inputs on my
> motion board. If you want to still use one input, the spdt relay works very
> well or you can just jumper the probe when not in use.
> 
> And as far as anything called Mach, 3 is outdated and the last version had
> a fatal bug that crashed my machine and scrapped way too many parts (which
> is why I went to Linuxcnc in the first place) and I hear 4 is still not
> quite right.
> 
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
> 
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> 
> Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
> 
> Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
> http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
> 20% off of your order ??
> 
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 11:42 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > Hi Ralph,
> > The reason I ask is the replies are often like yours with an incorrect
> > assessment of features.
> >
> > https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/images/centroid_acorn_cnc_controller.pdf
> > I think 8 inputs is quite different from the 3 home inputs you mentioned.
> > A quadrature encoder input for spindle feedback and therefore tapping is
> > another 3 inputs and apparently on the DB-9 is also the ability in addition
> > to 0-10V spindle speed the CW/CCW direction capability.  And I count 8
> > relay outputs and 4 motor channels, not 3.
> >
> > Bari has mentioned about costs.  He's right about that.
> >
> > The Mesa 7i95 with Ethernet connection to the PC and a choice of user
> > interfaces with or without touch screen.  Cost is $295 compared to by the
> > time you add some relays and a power supply  the cost is probably more for
> > the Linux System.
> >
> > But, and it's a gigantic huge but, the response is often "I don't want to
> > learn another OS and have to figure out what to do with Linux".
> >
> > Assuming then that the end user installs limits and shares a home with one
> > on each axis he's got 6 inputs tied up.  Adds a touch sensor which can
> > share a tool height sensor input.  Maybe also a small rotary table with a
>

Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-06 Thread Peter C. Wallace

On Tue, 6 Sep 2022, John Dammeyer wrote:

Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2022 18:25:11 -0700
From: John Dammeyer 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "'Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)'" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

Hi Ralph,
The reason I ask is the replies are often like yours with an incorrect 
assessment of features.
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/images/centroid_acorn_cnc_controller.pdf
I think 8 inputs is quite different from the 3 home inputs you mentioned.  A 
quadrature encoder input for spindle feedback and therefore tapping is another 
3 inputs and apparently on the DB-9 is also the ability in addition to 0-10V 
spindle speed the CW/CCW direction capability.  And I count 8 relay outputs and 
4 motor channels, not 3.

Bari has mentioned about costs.  He's right about that.

The Mesa 7i95 with Ethernet connection to the PC and a choice of user 
interfaces with or without touch screen.  Cost is $295 compared to by the time 
you add some relays and a power supply  the cost is probably more for the Linux 
System.

But, and it's a gigantic huge but, the response is often "I don't want to learn 
another OS and have to figure out what to do with Linux".

Assuming then that the end user installs limits and shares a home with one on 
each axis he's got 6 inputs tied up.  Adds a touch sensor which can share a 
tool height sensor input.  Maybe also a small rotary table with a stepper for 
that 4th axis.  A relay output for coolant control which is an extra cost for 
the LinuxCNC system.  And VFD on the spindle along with an encoder.

So far we haven't exceeded the I/O on either system.Costs are somewhat comparable.  
However, after that introductory carrot, the price for the Acorn jumps by another $159 
for the "Mill Pro" which now lets you use that rotary table and do Rigid 
tapping.  So now the Acorn is well above the price of the LinuxCNC system.  We'll ignore 
the price of the PC for now since both are required (along with motors, belts, pulleys, 
limit switches etc.).

If you go out and buy a laptop it probably comes with Windows 10.  Finding an 
inexpensive laptop with hard wire (verses WiFi) internet connection is getting 
harder.  Not sure about the touch screen side of things.  Either laptop or a 
monitor.

So price wise, MESA $295 plus some relays and a power supply so say $400.  The 
Acorn $329+ $159= $488.  So Acorn more expensive but turnkey compared to trying 
to install LinuxCNC on a new piece of hardware, trying to figure out what a HAL 
and INI file do, which user interface to install and so on...

The question still stands.  For that simple 3 axis + rotary table mill why buy 
LinuxCNC?  We're not adding a tool changer or power drawbar because it's a 
hobby system or used occasionally in a small shop to make 5 of something.

There are user groups for both types of systems.  For that matter cost wise 
there's also MACH4 with the Ethernet SmoothStepper or a few other similar 
interfaces.  Cost wise also in the $400 range.

So why LinuxCNC?

John

A 7I96S is a much closer match to an Acorn (and has more 
basic I/O and more expandability) for $149

A 7I95 allows 6 axis of encoder feedback (not something the Acorn can do)

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-06 Thread Feral Engineer

tool changer or power drawbar because
> it's a hobby system or used occasionally in a small shop to make 5 of
> something.
>
> There are user groups for both types of systems.  For that matter cost
> wise there's also MACH4 with the Ethernet SmoothStepper or a few other
> similar interfaces.  Cost wise also in the $400 range.
>
> So why LinuxCNC?
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ralph Stirling [mailto:ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu]
> > Sent: September-06-22 5:34 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> >
> >
> > What kind of machine does the potential Acorn buyer plan to control?
> > Most of these newer controls are aimed at vanilla 3-axis cartesian
> > machines.  They generate step/dir pulses, and have three home inputs,
> > and not a lot else.  LinuxCNC really shines when you have more complex
> > I/O needs, unusual kinematics, tool changers, integration with external
> > elements (bar feeders, robots, etc) and the like.  I haven't seen any of
> > the newer open source or low cost controllers address these more
> sophisticated
> > applications.
> >
> > -- Ralph
> > 
> > From: John Dammeyer [jo...@autoartisans.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 5:06 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> >
> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University
> email system.
> >
> >
> > If I was to offer an reason to go LinuxCNC to someone who is attracted
> to an Acorn system what would I say.
> > Other than the Acorn is really just a cape for a BeagleBone Black.  But
> the user interface is all via Ethernet so a
> > PC of some sort is still required.
> >
> > There appear to be so many CNC systems out there now.  Even LinuxCNC now
> suffers from too many user
> > interfaces to the point where is the Tormach really still LinuxCNC or is
> it something different too?
> >
> > Comments?
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> > Automation Artisans Inc.
> > www dot autoartisans dot com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistin
> > fo%2Femc-
> > usersdata=05%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu
> %7C9a4cc2c782d344f7805308da9064e82b%
> >
> 7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637981060324235478%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
> >
> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C
> > mp;sdata=uls09nASb64elBi4dQIb1WScbE2d32AIP5IkquFbkXo%3Dreserved=0
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-06 Thread John Dammeyer

Actually Phil you and Sam have both answered the question.  I'm trying to avoid 
the preaching to the choir answers because then it's a Ford verse Chevy 
argument and they both have 4 wheels and a steering wheel.

I could not have gotten my system up and running with Acorn and I had to bail 
on MACH too.
The simple reason is that I ended up buying off EBAY a harmonic drive for my 
4th axis.  Up until then I had Parallel port and dual boot PC for WIN-XP and 
LinuxCNC.  And I'd even run my mill with the Xylotex Beagle Cape and Machine 
Kit.  

But the STMBL AC servo driver has the issue that if there is a voltage bump or 
the power isn't there yet when enable is switched on it faults which then 
removes power from everything.Won't go into the details but I could never 
make MACH3 work well with the scenario.   LinuxCNC did. I like the tapping 
ability.  I do have a MODIO from Australia that I could add along with MODBUS 
messaging but I also have CAN bus running (at least on the Pi4 version of 
LinuxCNC).  

So I would never buy an Acorn system.  And MACH3 for all it's ease of 
installation doesn't handle odd things well.Linux has been, how can I say 
it, difficult.

But seriously when you look at the simple ready to go with this card and this 
IO hardware both MACH4 and Acorn are hard to talk someone out of.

John

> -Original Message-
> From: Feral Engineer [mailto:theferalengin...@gmail.com]
> Sent: September-06-22 5:30 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> I thought path pilot started using a Linuxcnc fork from machine kit?
> 
> Centroid is appealing to new users because of a few reasons: ease of setup
> (no hal), conversational (although not great) and a unified ecosystem of
> hardware and software, with the ability to find a plug and play centroid
> unit for almost every budget and type of machine (acorn, oak, all in one
> dc). Plus, their macro logic is more fanuc-like from what I've seen
> (includes the dreaded GOTO)
> 
> The selling point of LinuxCNC is price point and available power, if you're
> willing to put in the time to learn. Not many people want to learn how to
> configure hal/classicladder and pncconf has fallen behind and has acquired
> some bugs to keep from working properly (can't add USB devices without it
> locking up). With a well documented setup like a 7i75e, gecko g540 or a c10
> chinabob, it's not crazy to say you can have motors moving in a couple of
> hours but again, not many people want to spend the time messing with hal
> configs. If there were more graphic based setup options, like the ones in
> crap3, it might be more user friendly for beginners.
> 
> I'm not answering your question, I'm sure, but I'm giving insight from both
> sides. I like LinuxCNC and the people involved are all great, but from a
> general standpoint, the stumbling block is the learning curve but the
> benefits are aplenty for those who want to learn.
> 
> 
> Phil T.
> The Feral Engineer
> 
> Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
> www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer
> 
> Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
> www.patreon.com/theferalengineer
> 
> Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
> http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
> 20% off of your order ??
> 
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:12 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > If I was to offer an reason to go LinuxCNC to someone who is attracted to
> > an Acorn system what would I say.  Other than the Acorn is really just a
> > cape for a BeagleBone Black.  But the user interface is all via Ethernet so
> > a PC of some sort is still required.
> >
> > There appear to be so many CNC systems out there now.  Even LinuxCNC now
> > suffers from too many user interfaces to the point where is the Tormach
> > really still LinuxCNC or is it something different too?
> >
> > Comments?
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> > "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> > Automation Artisans Inc.
> > www dot autoartisans dot com
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-06 Thread John Dammeyer

Hi Ralph,
The reason I ask is the replies are often like yours with an incorrect 
assessment of features. 
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/images/centroid_acorn_cnc_controller.pdf
I think 8 inputs is quite different from the 3 home inputs you mentioned.  A 
quadrature encoder input for spindle feedback and therefore tapping is another 
3 inputs and apparently on the DB-9 is also the ability in addition to 0-10V 
spindle speed the CW/CCW direction capability.  And I count 8 relay outputs and 
4 motor channels, not 3.

Bari has mentioned about costs.  He's right about that. 

The Mesa 7i95 with Ethernet connection to the PC and a choice of user 
interfaces with or without touch screen.  Cost is $295 compared to by the time 
you add some relays and a power supply  the cost is probably more for the Linux 
System.

But, and it's a gigantic huge but, the response is often "I don't want to learn 
another OS and have to figure out what to do with Linux".

Assuming then that the end user installs limits and shares a home with one on 
each axis he's got 6 inputs tied up.  Adds a touch sensor which can share a 
tool height sensor input.  Maybe also a small rotary table with a stepper for 
that 4th axis.  A relay output for coolant control which is an extra cost for 
the LinuxCNC system.  And VFD on the spindle along with an encoder.

So far we haven't exceeded the I/O on either system.Costs are somewhat 
comparable.  However, after that introductory carrot, the price for the Acorn 
jumps by another $159 for the "Mill Pro" which now lets you use that rotary 
table and do Rigid tapping.  So now the Acorn is well above the price of the 
LinuxCNC system.  We'll ignore the price of the PC for now since both are 
required (along with motors, belts, pulleys, limit switches etc.).

If you go out and buy a laptop it probably comes with Windows 10.  Finding an 
inexpensive laptop with hard wire (verses WiFi) internet connection is getting 
harder.  Not sure about the touch screen side of things.  Either laptop or a 
monitor.

So price wise, MESA $295 plus some relays and a power supply so say $400.  The 
Acorn $329+ $159= $488.  So Acorn more expensive but turnkey compared to trying 
to install LinuxCNC on a new piece of hardware, trying to figure out what a HAL 
and INI file do, which user interface to install and so on...

The question still stands.  For that simple 3 axis + rotary table mill why buy 
LinuxCNC?  We're not adding a tool changer or power drawbar because it's a 
hobby system or used occasionally in a small shop to make 5 of something.

There are user groups for both types of systems.  For that matter cost wise 
there's also MACH4 with the Ethernet SmoothStepper or a few other similar 
interfaces.  Cost wise also in the $400 range.

So why LinuxCNC?

John




> -Original Message-
> From: Ralph Stirling [mailto:ralph.stirl...@wallawalla.edu]
> Sent: September-06-22 5:34 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> 
> What kind of machine does the potential Acorn buyer plan to control?
> Most of these newer controls are aimed at vanilla 3-axis cartesian
> machines.  They generate step/dir pulses, and have three home inputs,
> and not a lot else.  LinuxCNC really shines when you have more complex
> I/O needs, unusual kinematics, tool changers, integration with external
> elements (bar feeders, robots, etc) and the like.  I haven't seen any of
> the newer open source or low cost controllers address these more sophisticated
> applications.
> 
> -- Ralph
> 
> From: John Dammeyer [jo...@autoartisans.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 5:06 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC
> 
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
> system.
> 
> 
> If I was to offer an reason to go LinuxCNC to someone who is attracted to an 
> Acorn system what would I say.
> Other than the Acorn is really just a cape for a BeagleBone Black.  But the 
> user interface is all via Ethernet so a
> PC of some sort is still required.
> 
> There appear to be so many CNC systems out there now.  Even LinuxCNC now 
> suffers from too many user
> interfaces to the point where is the Tormach really still LinuxCNC or is it 
> something different too?
> 
> Comments?
> John
> 
> 
> 
> "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> Automation Artisans Inc.
> www dot autoartisans dot com
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-06 Thread Feral Engineer

I thought path pilot started using a Linuxcnc fork from machine kit?

Centroid is appealing to new users because of a few reasons: ease of setup
(no hal), conversational (although not great) and a unified ecosystem of
hardware and software, with the ability to find a plug and play centroid
unit for almost every budget and type of machine (acorn, oak, all in one
dc). Plus, their macro logic is more fanuc-like from what I've seen
(includes the dreaded GOTO)

The selling point of LinuxCNC is price point and available power, if you're
willing to put in the time to learn. Not many people want to learn how to
configure hal/classicladder and pncconf has fallen behind and has acquired
some bugs to keep from working properly (can't add USB devices without it
locking up). With a well documented setup like a 7i75e, gecko g540 or a c10
chinabob, it's not crazy to say you can have motors moving in a couple of
hours but again, not many people want to spend the time messing with hal
configs. If there were more graphic based setup options, like the ones in
crap3, it might be more user friendly for beginners.

I'm not answering your question, I'm sure, but I'm giving insight from both
sides. I like LinuxCNC and the people involved are all great, but from a
general standpoint, the stumbling block is the learning curve but the
benefits are aplenty for those who want to learn.

Phil T.
The Feral Engineer

Check out my LinuxCNC tutorials, machine builds and other antics at
www.youtube.com/c/theferalengineer

Help support my channel efforts and coffee addiction:
www.patreon.com/theferalengineer

Order one of the coolest label makers on the market at
http://labelworks.epson.com, use coupon code "theferalengineer" and receive
20% off of your order 

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:12 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> If I was to offer an reason to go LinuxCNC to someone who is attracted to
> an Acorn system what would I say.  Other than the Acorn is really just a
> cape for a BeagleBone Black.  But the user interface is all via Ethernet so
> a PC of some sort is still required.
>
> There appear to be so many CNC systems out there now.  Even LinuxCNC now
> suffers from too many user interfaces to the point where is the Tormach
> really still LinuxCNC or is it something different too?
>
> Comments?
> John
>
>
>
> "ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
> Automation Artisans Inc.
> www dot autoartisans dot com
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-06 Thread Sam Sokolik

I have almost stopped evangelizing linuxcnc... (almost)  People are going
to use what they are going to use.  I just try to put out how cool and
flexible linuxcnc is..

The acon is really one of the few hobby grade controllers that can thread
and rigid tap.   Plus you have the history of the centroid front end (it is
exactly the same as their expensive controls)

You certainly pay a premium and every option is an extra $$$  (and it is a
pretty rigid platform)

sam

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 7:53 PM Bari  wrote:

> On 9/6/22 19:06, John Dammeyer wrote:
>
> > If I was to offer an reason to go LinuxCNC to someone who is attracted
> to an Acorn system what would I say.  Other than the Acorn is really just a
> cape for a BeagleBone Black.  But the user interface is all via Ethernet so
> a PC of some sort is still required.
> >
> > There appear to be so many CNC systems out there now.  Even LinuxCNC now
> suffers from too many user interfaces to the point where is the Tormach
> really still LinuxCNC or is it something different too?
> >
> > Comments?
> > John
>
>
> For me LCNC has always been about flexibility and endless options since
> we have open source and HAL. For a simple CNC it's really up to whatever
> you like or comfortable paying for. Centroid is closed and you will get
> charged for every option.
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-06 Thread Bari


On 9/6/22 19:06, John Dammeyer wrote:


If I was to offer an reason to go LinuxCNC to someone who is attracted to an 
Acorn system what would I say.  Other than the Acorn is really just a cape for 
a BeagleBone Black.  But the user interface is all via Ethernet so a PC of some 
sort is still required.
  
There appear to be so many CNC systems out there now.  Even LinuxCNC now suffers from too many user interfaces to the point where is the Tormach really still LinuxCNC or is it something different too?
  
Comments?

John



For me LCNC has always been about flexibility and endless options since 
we have open source and HAL. For a simple CNC it's really up to whatever 
you like or comfortable paying for. Centroid is closed and you will get 
charged for every option.




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Re: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

2022-09-06 Thread Ralph Stirling



What kind of machine does the potential Acorn buyer plan to control?
Most of these newer controls are aimed at vanilla 3-axis cartesian
machines.  They generate step/dir pulses, and have three home inputs,
and not a lot else.  LinuxCNC really shines when you have more complex
I/O needs, unusual kinematics, tool changers, integration with external
elements (bar feeders, robots, etc) and the like.  I haven't seen any of
the newer open source or low cost controllers address these more sophisticated
applications.

-- Ralph

From: John Dammeyer [jo...@autoartisans.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 5:06 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: [Emc-users] Acorn CNC

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


If I was to offer an reason to go LinuxCNC to someone who is attracted to an 
Acorn system what would I say.  Other than the Acorn is really just a cape for 
a BeagleBone Black.  But the user interface is all via Ethernet so a PC of some 
sort is still required.

There appear to be so many CNC systems out there now.  Even LinuxCNC now 
suffers from too many user interfaces to the point where is the Tormach really 
still LinuxCNC or is it something different too?

Comments?
John



"ELS! Nothing else works as well for your Lathe"
Automation Artisans Inc.
www dot autoartisans dot com


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