Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

I use Caligari trueSpace 6.6 for the things I design. It can import STL but it 
does have an issue with it and some other formats. It scales them so that the 
largest dimension in X, Y, or Z is 8 units long, in the currently selected unit 
scale, thus a large object will import able to fit within an 8mm cube.

To fix that I load the STL in the slicer to get the XYZ dimensions. Then in 
trueSpace I use the object panel to type in the numbers from the slicer and the 
STL is now proper size. I then save it in trueSpace COB format for further work 
on it. When ready to print, it gets saved in STL. 
 
A "feature" of STL is it only uses one measurement unit, millimeters. So in 
trueSpace I can model in millimeters, centimeters, or meters and as far as STL 
is concerned all three are millimeters. Ie a cube 20.453 
mm^3 prints the same size as a cube modeled at 20.453 M^3
Thus if I'm designing something tiny I can model it in single digit meters so I 
don't have to zoom way in. If I'm making a larger object I can work in 
centimeters or millimeters so I don't have to zoom way out.
trueSpace can of course work in Imperial/US units but then one must think of 
the conversion factor because when exporting to STL it ends up an inch (or 
other unit) = a millimeter.

Some time ago, Microsoft bought Caligari and released the then current version 
of trueSpace 7.6 as freeware. Their intent was to challenge Google Earth with 
Bing Maps and Microsoft Virtual Earth, and that people would use the free 
trueSpace software to populate them with 3D buildings and other things. 
Apparently the public at large wasn't much interested and Microsoft soon cast 
TrueSpace adrift. It can still be downloaded in a couple of versions. One has 
both the new 7.6 environment and the old 6.6 environment in one package and it 
able to switch between them. The 6.6 system in 7.6 is pretty much 100% the same 
as standalone 6.6 so anyone familiar with prior versions will feel right at 
home.
The later release shed the 6.6 system, much like PlayStation 3 dropped support 
for Playstation 2 games. The 7.6 environment is a lot different, more advanced 
in many ways and apparently better for animation, which is what Caligari was 
intending the software for since its origins on Amiga.
There's an active trueSpace forum here, with lots of useful information. 
https://www.united3dartists.com/forum/
Would be nice if Microsoft would release what trueSpace source code they can as 
open source. Obviously they can't release parts like the Lightworks rendering 
engine. At the time Caligari made the deal to include Lightworks with 
trueSpace, Lightworks as an addition for other 3D software cost quite a bit 
more than the whole cost of trueSpace plus some extras.

On Saturday, May 30, 2020, 3:28:59 PM MDT, Chris Albertson 
 wrote:  
 On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 2:02 PM Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:

> OpenSCAD will not even open an STL. So it loses in this competition.
>

It does not matter if OpenSCAD can open an STL.

Do NOT download STL models from the suppliers.  They are nearly useless.
Get the STEP files or whatever other format you CAN import.  You are going
to have to modify any gear model unless you are very lucky and you really
can not modify an STL.  Then after moding the gear save it as STL.  You
slicer can only use STL.

I posted a picture of what is on my printer right now.  Usually, you almost
never want a standard part.  Usually, gears are used to drive some other
parts and make them move.  If you have a printer you can make the
grear and the driven part at the same time and it is much better then using
fasteners like setscrews.  A simple example is below.  It is just a pulley
with some places where bearing can be pressed in and some threaded M5 holes
to hold another part. (This will take 6 hours on my printer.)

Let's say you are making that BS1 drive.    I bet something like this is
needed.  There would need to be bearing and a pulley so you'd want the
pulley to have recesses for the thrust bearing and mayybe a way to attach
the handwheel so you could stil use the BS1 manually.  Then you think "Why
attach a hand wheel when I can print it already attached?    The part below
is used to rotate a ball nut and transfer the load to a deep groove sealed
bearing.

[image: pulleyUpperFlange.jpg]  
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Martin Dobbins]

andy pugh wrote:

I think that if you want to be confident of keeping both the files and the
software, OpenSCAD and FreeCAD probably win. But I have something like 30
years AutoCAD experience by now...

This guy seems like a SolidWorks guru, yet seems to think that FreeCad  
actually gives it a run for its money on some things and posts some pretty good 
videos:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-CubOaooNwC-3RBKUoAOQQ/videos

Martin









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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Onshape does have a native iPad app that is nearly full-featured. Onshape on an 
iPad Pro with Apple Pencil is about the most fun I’ve had drawing stuff. It 
does get bogged down with large assemblies and contextual references but it’s 
great for small stuff.

Thaddeus Waldner
Newdale School
Elkton, SD 57026

From: Chris Albertson 
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 7:34:39 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

I think you have confused OnShape and SolidWorks.

OnShape and SolidWorks are completely separate products.  One did not
transition to the other and both are big-league players now.  OK, there is
a connection. Some executives quit Dassault Systèmes SE (the makers of
SolidWorks) to found this new start-up called OnShape.  The two
companies are competitors.

OnShape does not offer a trial period.  And you never "install" it so you
would not have needed to delete it.  OnShape is web-based and can be used
on any computer with an Internet connection with no "install" required.

It sounds like your licensing problems must have been with SolidWorks.

I would not recommend SolidWorks to any hobby user. The cost is "mid four
digits" which puts it out of reach.

As for learning, Fusion and OnShape both have very good tutorials that were
produced by the companies themselves and I've gotten good tech support even
without paying for the products.

About design files.  Keep backups in STEP format.  Then do the normal such
that at all times you date lives on three different physical media and at
two different geographical locations.



> Funny you should mention Onshape though, formerly Solidworks. I made the
> mistake years ago of downloading their so called freebie that had a 30
> day free trial, then found it had zero help unless you had paid for it,
> and I was totally lost, never having dealt with any CAD like program
> before.  So I deleted it, then spent the next year feeding their legal
> threats to spamassassin and replying to them by denying that a copy of
> it existed on any system I owned.  To say they were insistent assholes
> about it is being way nicer than they deserved.  They did every threat
> in the book short of sending it to a bill collector.  I half expected to
> get a registered letter at anytime, demanding I cough up the $600 they
> wanted, but eventually they gave up.  So you can guess how fat the
> chance is that I'll ever deal with those people again.
>
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


--

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 30 May 2020 20:34:39 Chris Albertson wrote:

> I think you have confused OnShape and SolidWorks.
>
> OnShape and SolidWorks are completely separate products.  One did not
> transition to the other and both are big-league players now.  OK,
> there is a connection. Some executives quit Dassault Systèmes SE (the
> makers of SolidWorks) to found this new start-up called OnShape.  The
> two companies are competitors.

Today maybe...

> OnShape does not offer a trial period.  And you never "install" it so
> you would not have needed to delete it.  OnShape is web-based and can
> be used on any computer with an Internet connection with no "install"
> required.
>
> It sounds like your licensing problems must have been with SolidWorks.
>
They were.  And regardless of the path those people took to get to 
Onshape from Dassault, we are faced with the fact that a leopard cannot 
change his spot pattern.

> I would not recommend SolidWorks to any hobby user. The cost is "mid
> four digits" which puts it out of reach.

They have certainly gotten hungry in the decade since I encountered them 
so unpleasantly.

> As for learning, Fusion and OnShape both have very good tutorials that
> were produced by the companies themselves and I've gotten good tech
> support even without paying for the products.
>
> About design files.  Keep backups in STEP format.  Then do the normal
> such that at all times you date lives on three different physical
> media and at two different geographical locations.
>
> > Funny you should mention Onshape though, formerly Solidworks. I made
> > the mistake years ago of downloading their so called freebie that
> > had a 30 day free trial, then found it had zero help unless you had
> > paid for it, and I was totally lost, never having dealt with any CAD
> > like program before.  So I deleted it, then spent the next year
> > feeding their legal threats to spamassassin and replying to them by
> > denying that a copy of it existed on any system I owned.  To say
> > they were insistent assholes about it is being way nicer than they
> > deserved.  They did every threat in the book short of sending it to
> > a bill collector.  I half expected to get a registered letter at
> > anytime, demanding I cough up the $600 they wanted, but eventually
> > they gave up.  So you can guess how fat the chance is that I'll ever
> > deal with those people again.
> >
> > > > ___
> > > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > --
> > "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
> >  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> > -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> > If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law
> > respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
> > Genes Web page 
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

I think you have confused OnShape and SolidWorks.

OnShape and SolidWorks are completely separate products.  One did not
transition to the other and both are big-league players now.  OK, there is
a connection. Some executives quit Dassault Systèmes SE (the makers of
SolidWorks) to found this new start-up called OnShape.  The two
companies are competitors.

OnShape does not offer a trial period.  And you never "install" it so you
would not have needed to delete it.  OnShape is web-based and can be used
on any computer with an Internet connection with no "install" required.

It sounds like your licensing problems must have been with SolidWorks.

I would not recommend SolidWorks to any hobby user. The cost is "mid four
digits" which puts it out of reach.

As for learning, Fusion and OnShape both have very good tutorials that were
produced by the companies themselves and I've gotten good tech support even
without paying for the products.

About design files.  Keep backups in STEP format.  Then do the normal such
that at all times you date lives on three different physical media and at
two different geographical locations.



> Funny you should mention Onshape though, formerly Solidworks. I made the
> mistake years ago of downloading their so called freebie that had a 30
> day free trial, then found it had zero help unless you had paid for it,
> and I was totally lost, never having dealt with any CAD like program
> before.  So I deleted it, then spent the next year feeding their legal
> threats to spamassassin and replying to them by denying that a copy of
> it existed on any system I owned.  To say they were insistent assholes
> about it is being way nicer than they deserved.  They did every threat
> in the book short of sending it to a bill collector.  I half expected to
> get a registered letter at anytime, demanding I cough up the $600 they
> wanted, but eventually they gave up.  So you can guess how fat the
> chance is that I'll ever deal with those people again.
>
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[John Dammeyer]

> 
> I learned this with Alibre. I was using the free version, and that
> disappeared, and all my models became unavailable to me.
> 
>  I had the _files_ but the software stopped working. This is functionally
> equivalent to having the files in the Cloud and the cloud storage not
> working.
> So, no, I am not going back to Alibre.
> 
> This has also happened to me to an extent with Inventor. I qualify for a
> home-use license for Inventor, but that license has stopped working.
> Also,  the Windows  VM I was running Inventor on has become corrupted
> In that case I have lost the software _and_ the files. At least with Fusion
> the files are likely to continue to exist.
> 
> I think that if you want to be confident of keeping both the files and the
> software, OpenSCAD and FreeCAD probably win. But I have something like 30
> years AutoCAD experience by now...
> 
> --
> atp

What I did with Geomagic and the MecSoft CAM software was buy the dongles.  I 
then put them in an Ethernet USB hub so that regardless of which PC I was using 
as long as it was shut down on the others I could run the software.Alas 
when it became Alibre again my dongles were no longer useful for that newer 
version.  

But the idea was that if the call home software ever vanished I had my key.  
Just like "Right to Repair" I think it's time we took back what we've paid for. 
 Use your bandsaw to cut a piece of wood and the saw is no longer needed but 
you still have the piece of wood.  So your suggestion to archive all important 
drawings as step or iges files is a good idea.  Even if you can't work with the 
individual parameters anymore.

John


 



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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

Fusion 360 can import STL.   You can even edit the STL data.  But in STL
there are no arcs, circles, lines, or screw threads, only triangles so
editing is not so easy.Fusion does have a way to convert back to CAD
type models but it requires a lot of manual work.  Onshape is a little like
Fusion in this.   You end up doing things like fitting a spline or circle
to the midpoints of 30 triangle bases then deleting all 30 lines.

I've used Gearotic.  Then I found I can download from Grainger and others.
   I like the download option because then if the plastic gear does not
work out I know where to buy a good quality metal gear and my project is
already designed to use the metal gear.

You really need to test printed gears.  If the printer is out of square the
gear will be out of round and un-round gears will introduce periodic error
in the shaft rotations.



On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 3:45 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> When Alibre was sold and renamed they added the STL import feature.  It
> worked reasonably well.  Specifically one could use it to then create
> parametric drawings using the imported image as a guide.  When it returned
> to being Alibre it lost that feature.
>
> It can import step and iges files.  And gearotic can create the cad files
> that can be edited.  Not only stl files.  The author of Gearotic is Art
> Fenerty, the designer of MACH2/3.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Thaddeus Waldner [mailto:thadw...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: May-30-20 3:30 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone
> >
> >
> >
> > > On May 30, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Chris Albertson <
> albertson.ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Do NOT download STL models from the suppliers.   They are nearly
> useless.
> > > Get the STEP files or whatever other format you CAN import.   You are
> going
> > > to have to modify any gear model unless you are very lucky and you
> really
> > > can not modify an STL.   Then after moding the gear save it as STL.
>  You
> > > slicer can only use STL.
> >
> > Thanks for explaining. I know I�ve tried importing STL files to OnShape
> (my go-to cad solution) and it doesn�t let me do anything
> > with it.
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 09:06, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

>
> Use whatever you like but don't make a decision based on a misconception.
> I even think "what happens if Fusion disappears?" So I keep the design
> backup up as STEP files that will import to any CAD system.


I learned this with Alibre. I was using the free version, and that
disappeared, and all my models became unavailable to me.

 I had the _files_ but the software stopped working. This is functionally
equivalent to having the files in the Cloud and the cloud storage not
working.
So, no, I am not going back to Alibre.

This has also happened to me to an extent with Inventor. I qualify for a
home-use license for Inventor, but that license has stopped working.
Also,  the Windows  VM I was running Inventor on has become corrupted
In that case I have lost the software _and_ the files. At least with Fusion
the files are likely to continue to exist.

I think that if you want to be confident of keeping both the files and the
software, OpenSCAD and FreeCAD probably win. But I have something like 30
years AutoCAD experience by now...

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 30 May 2020 14:12:28 Chris Albertson wrote:

> [image: image.jpeg]
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:31 AM cogoman via Emc-users <
>
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> > On 5/29/20 8:44 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > > In this case, openscad gives me the tools I want right now, and I
> > > could even do a set of gears for stage 2 of the reduction since
> > > that spacing is almost too close for a belt coupling. So by using
> > > the correct tooth profiles it could make a very usefull gearset,
> > > no belt at all, and a higher reduction at the same time. But would
> > > those teeth be strong enough. Worth a try IMO. And a swarf cover
> > > from the printer should be doable.
>
> Two points:
>
> 1) can you (you, not someone else) actually modify a downloaded gear
> design using openscad?  Try it Go get any random gear from SPD/SI or
> Grainger and change the hub and face width and save as STL. I bet
> this is not easy. It is nearly trivial in Fusion or Onshape or any
> that work like them. Seriously, go through the steps using each
> system.   Downloading and installing 3 or 4 CAD systems takes days but
> doing the same test project in each is the only way to see what each
> can do.Downloading a gear and making a trivial modification like
> (boring out the hub) then saving as STL is a good test case.
>
> 2) Yes, the TEETH would be strong enough to carry the force from any
> reasonable size motor.   Remember that a 1NM motor can only generate
> 1NM of torque.  What is the radius of the gear?  lets guess at 0.1
> meter.  If so then the force n the tooth is 10 Newtons (or in
> barbarian units about 2.5 pounds) and this is in the worst case where
> the motor is stalled at full current against a hard stop.
>
>   When you slice the gear you can specify the wall thickness and the
> infill percent and style.  For gears of this size in PLA I'd go with
> 1.6mm walls and skin and 50% infill density.Cutting those numbers
> in half to 0.8 and 25% would still make a serviceable gear for a small
> < 2NM motor.   PLA is the most rigid plastic.  It is not the toughest
> against impacts but for driving a CNC machine rigidity matters more
> than impact resistance
>
> I've been doing experiments with plastic gears.  I can print small
> ones down to module 0.5 but the percent error in tooth shape is very
> high for small gears.   For my self-drive car project I am using
> module 2.0 spur gears with 24mm face width.  These gears are huge but
> the front tire will be hitting rocks and the computer will be making
> fast steering corrections. These gears are very strong so that
> "something else" will break first.
>
> But notice I said the TEETH are very strong.   In a gear the stres is
> greatest near the hub and minimal on the teeth.  Larger diameter gears
> have less force on the teeth then do smaller diameter gears.   So you
> always want to use the largest gears possible.  If the gear fails,
> it fails at the hub.  It slips on the shaft after the keywhy shears
> off of the threads holding the setscrew strip out.  With PLA gear
> slipping on the hub is a "death spiral" because slipping make heat and
> heat softens the PLA and makes it slip more.   And the hub to shaft
> interfce is the highest stressed place.  It fails if not
> over-engineered.
>
> My solution is to make my plastic gears with a 24mm (or larger)
> diameter borehole.   Then turn a 24mm steel bushing that fits the
> shaft and has set screws.  he gear is press fit with epoxy to the
> bushing.This way the hub is steel and will never fail and the
> teeth never do fail.(Later I might try making hexagonal hub.)
>
> That said.   When you design the gear, just figure that PLA s about
> 1/3rd as strong as metal and give the plastic gear a wider face and
> try to use module 1.0 size at least if you can.
>
> Finally one more thing:  With plastic gears, you really can benefit
> from using *helical* gears as more tooth area is in contact and they
> slide better.  It costs no more to print a helix than a spur gear.
> Next, you think you don't want to deal with axial loads (side force)
> so you use TWO helix gears to make herringbone gears.  These have zero
> side force, are self-aligning, and cost no more than spur gears.  
> MANY people doing gears with printers use this kind of gear.  They are
> expensive to cut in steel but cost no more in plastic.
>
> If you have a CAD system herringbone gears are easy.  (1) find a helix
> gear some place like Grainger or McMaster Carr,  Download both the
> left and right-hand versions.  (2) in the CAD system stick them
> together, side by side, (3) cut the face width as required, (3) bore
> the hub to 24mm, (4) slice and print.Try doing the full exercise
> using OnShape then Oopenscad then with fusion and see which works best
> for you.  (If you are a hard-core Linux user I bet onshape works best)
>
> As a further exercise try getting you CAD system to make g-code for a
> 4-axis mill to make 

Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[John Dammeyer]

When Alibre was sold and renamed they added the STL import feature.  It worked 
reasonably well.  Specifically one could use it to then create parametric 
drawings using the imported image as a guide.  When it returned to being Alibre 
it lost that feature.  

It can import step and iges files.  And gearotic can create the cad files that 
can be edited.  Not only stl files.  The author of Gearotic is Art Fenerty, the 
designer of MACH2/3. 

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Thaddeus Waldner [mailto:thadw...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May-30-20 3:30 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone
> 
> 
> 
> > On May 30, 2020, at 4:26 PM, Chris Albertson  
> > wrote:
> >
> > Do NOT download STL models from the suppliers.   They are nearly useless.
> > Get the STEP files or whatever other format you CAN import.   You are going
> > to have to modify any gear model unless you are very lucky and you really
> > can not modify an STL.   Then after moding the gear save it as STL.   You
> > slicer can only use STL.
> 
> Thanks for explaining. I know I�ve tried importing STL files to OnShape (my 
> go-to cad solution) and it doesn�t let me do anything
> with it.
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 2:02 PM Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:

> OpenSCAD will not even open an STL. So it loses in this competition.
>

It does not matter if OpenSCAD can open an STL.

Do NOT download STL models from the suppliers.   They are nearly useless.
Get the STEP files or whatever other format you CAN import.   You are going
to have to modify any gear model unless you are very lucky and you really
can not modify an STL.   Then after moding the gear save it as STL.   You
slicer can only use STL.

I posted a picture of what is on my printer right now.  Usually, you almost
never want a standard part.  Usually, gears are used to drive some other
parts and make them move.   If you have a printer you can make the
grear and the driven part at the same time and it is much better then using
fasteners like setscrews.  A simple example is below.  It is just a pulley
with some places where bearing can be pressed in and some threaded M5 holes
to hold another part. (This will take 6 hours on my printer.)

Let's say you are making that BS1 drive.I bet something like this is
needed.  There would need to be bearing and a pulley so you'd want the
pulley to have recesses for the thrust bearing and mayybe a way to attach
the handwheel so you could stil use the BS1 manually.   Then you think "Why
attach a hand wheel when I can print it already attached?The part below
is used to rotate a ball nut and transfer the load to a deep groove sealed
bearing.

[image: pulleyUpperFlange.jpg]
>
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Thaddeus Waldner]

OpenSCAD will not even open an STL. So it loses in this competition.

However, a number of designers have created and made public their OpenSCAD 
design files for many different gear and hub configurations.

I appreciate your method for mounting a printed gear. It’s a good example of 
Integrating 3d printing fab process with machine-building; use it only for the 
highly complex, low stress parts.
I also didn’t even think to download STL models from hardware suppliers.

> On May 30, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> [image: image.jpeg]
> 
> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:31 AM cogoman via Emc-users <
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 5/29/20 8:44 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
>>> In this case, openscad gives me the tools I want right now, and I could
>>> even do a set of gears for stage 2 of the reduction since that spacing
>>> is almost too close for a belt coupling. So by using the correct tooth
>>> profiles it could make a very usefull gearset, no belt at all, and a
>>> higher reduction at the same time. But would those teeth be strong
>>> enough. Worth a try IMO. And a swarf cover from the printer should be
>>> doable.
>> 
> 
> Two points:
> 
> 1) can you (you, not someone else) actually modify a downloaded gear design
> using openscad?  Try it Go get any random gear from SPD/SI or Grainger and
> change the hub and face width and save as STL. I bet this is not easy.
>   It is nearly trivial in Fusion or Onshape or any that work like them.
> Seriously, go through the steps using each system.   Downloading and
> installing 3 or 4 CAD systems takes days but doing the same test project in
> each is the only way to see what each can do.Downloading a gear and
> making a trivial modification like (boring out the hub) then saving as STL
> is a good test case.
> 
> 2) Yes, the TEETH would be strong enough to carry the force from any
> reasonable size motor.   Remember that a 1NM motor can only generate 1NM of
> torque.  What is the radius of the gear?  lets guess at 0.1 meter.  If so
> then the force n the tooth is 10 Newtons (or in barbarian units about 2.5
> pounds) and this is in the worst case where the motor is stalled at full
> current against a hard stop.
> 
>  When you slice the gear you can specify the wall thickness and the infill
> percent and style.  For gears of this size in PLA I'd go with 1.6mm walls
> and skin and 50% infill density.Cutting those numbers in half to 0.8
> and 25% would still make a serviceable gear for a small < 2NM motor.   PLA
> is the most rigid plastic.  It is not the toughest against impacts but for
> driving a CNC machine rigidity matters more than impact resistance
> 
> I've been doing experiments with plastic gears.  I can print small ones
> down to module 0.5 but the percent error in tooth shape is very high for
> small gears.   For my self-drive car project I am using module 2.0 spur
> gears with 24mm face width.  These gears are huge but the front tire will
> be hitting rocks and the computer will be making fast steering corrections.
>  These gears are very strong so that "something else" will break first.
> 
> But notice I said the TEETH are very strong.   In a gear the stres is
> greatest near the hub and minimal on the teeth.  Larger diameter gears have
> less force on the teeth then do smaller diameter gears.   So you always
> want to use the largest gears possible.  If the gear fails, it fails at
> the hub.  It slips on the shaft after the keywhy shears off of the threads
> holding the setscrew strip out.  With PLA gear slipping on the hub is a
> "death spiral" because slipping make heat and heat softens the PLA and
> makes it slip more.   And the hub to shaft interfce is the highest stressed
> place.  It fails if not over-engineered.
> 
> My solution is to make my plastic gears with a 24mm (or larger) diameter
> borehole.   Then turn a 24mm steel bushing that fits the shaft and has set
> screws.  he gear is press fit with epoxy to the bushing.This way the
> hub is steel and will never fail and the teeth never do fail.(Later I
> might try making hexagonal hub.)
> 
> That said.   When you design the gear, just figure that PLA s about 1/3rd
> as strong as metal and give the plastic gear a wider face and try to use
> module 1.0 size at least if you can.
> 
> Finally one more thing:  With plastic gears, you really can benefit from
> using *helical* gears as more tooth area is in contact and they
> slide better.  It costs no more to print a helix than a spur gear.
> Next, you think you don't want to deal with axial loads (side force) so you
> use TWO helix gears to make herringbone gears.  These have zero side force,
> are self-aligning, and cost no more than spur gears.   MANY people doing
> gears with printers use this kind of gear.  They are expensive to cut in
> steel but cost no more in plastic.
> 
> If you have a CAD system herringbone gears are easy.  (1) find a 

Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

[image: image.jpeg]

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:31 AM cogoman via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

>
> On 5/29/20 8:44 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > In this case, openscad gives me the tools I want right now, and I could
> > even do a set of gears for stage 2 of the reduction since that spacing
> > is almost too close for a belt coupling. So by using the correct tooth
> > profiles it could make a very usefull gearset, no belt at all, and a
> > higher reduction at the same time. But would those teeth be strong
> > enough. Worth a try IMO. And a swarf cover from the printer should be
> > doable.
>

Two points:

1) can you (you, not someone else) actually modify a downloaded gear design
using openscad?  Try it Go get any random gear from SPD/SI or Grainger and
change the hub and face width and save as STL. I bet this is not easy.
   It is nearly trivial in Fusion or Onshape or any that work like them.
Seriously, go through the steps using each system.   Downloading and
installing 3 or 4 CAD systems takes days but doing the same test project in
each is the only way to see what each can do.Downloading a gear and
making a trivial modification like (boring out the hub) then saving as STL
is a good test case.

2) Yes, the TEETH would be strong enough to carry the force from any
reasonable size motor.   Remember that a 1NM motor can only generate 1NM of
torque.  What is the radius of the gear?  lets guess at 0.1 meter.  If so
then the force n the tooth is 10 Newtons (or in barbarian units about 2.5
pounds) and this is in the worst case where the motor is stalled at full
current against a hard stop.

  When you slice the gear you can specify the wall thickness and the infill
percent and style.  For gears of this size in PLA I'd go with 1.6mm walls
and skin and 50% infill density.Cutting those numbers in half to 0.8
and 25% would still make a serviceable gear for a small < 2NM motor.   PLA
is the most rigid plastic.  It is not the toughest against impacts but for
driving a CNC machine rigidity matters more than impact resistance

I've been doing experiments with plastic gears.  I can print small ones
down to module 0.5 but the percent error in tooth shape is very high for
small gears.   For my self-drive car project I am using module 2.0 spur
gears with 24mm face width.  These gears are huge but the front tire will
be hitting rocks and the computer will be making fast steering corrections.
  These gears are very strong so that "something else" will break first.

But notice I said the TEETH are very strong.   In a gear the stres is
greatest near the hub and minimal on the teeth.  Larger diameter gears have
less force on the teeth then do smaller diameter gears.   So you always
want to use the largest gears possible.  If the gear fails, it fails at
the hub.  It slips on the shaft after the keywhy shears off of the threads
holding the setscrew strip out.  With PLA gear slipping on the hub is a
"death spiral" because slipping make heat and heat softens the PLA and
makes it slip more.   And the hub to shaft interfce is the highest stressed
place.  It fails if not over-engineered.

My solution is to make my plastic gears with a 24mm (or larger) diameter
borehole.   Then turn a 24mm steel bushing that fits the shaft and has set
screws.  he gear is press fit with epoxy to the bushing.This way the
hub is steel and will never fail and the teeth never do fail.(Later I
might try making hexagonal hub.)

That said.   When you design the gear, just figure that PLA s about 1/3rd
as strong as metal and give the plastic gear a wider face and try to use
module 1.0 size at least if you can.

Finally one more thing:  With plastic gears, you really can benefit from
using *helical* gears as more tooth area is in contact and they
slide better.  It costs no more to print a helix than a spur gear.
Next, you think you don't want to deal with axial loads (side force) so you
use TWO helix gears to make herringbone gears.  These have zero side force,
are self-aligning, and cost no more than spur gears.   MANY people doing
gears with printers use this kind of gear.  They are expensive to cut in
steel but cost no more in plastic.

If you have a CAD system herringbone gears are easy.  (1) find a helix gear
some place like Grainger or McMaster Carr,  Download both the left and
right-hand versions.  (2) in the CAD system stick them together, side by
side, (3) cut the face width as required, (3) bore the hub to 24mm, (4)
slice and print.Try doing the full exercise using OnShape then
Oopenscad then with fusion and see which works best for you.  (If you are a
hard-core Linux user I bet onshape works best)

As a further exercise try getting you CAD system to make g-code for a
4-axis mill to make the same herringbone gears.  Try using a tiny ball-end
cutter.

Here is a photo.

[image: images.jpeg]





>
>
> Strength of 3d printed parts is a deep subject.  PLA if done right can
> be pretty strong, but other 

Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> 
> I should check on the progress of a project to design 3D printed CNC 
> conversion brackets for a Unimat lathe
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1785310

I like the X axis mount but I don't like that the Z takes up so much of the 
travel.  When I get around to adding motors to my little DB-200 I'll mount the 
Z axis on the metal plate holding the lathe.

John




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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: cogoman via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Strength of 3d printed parts is a deep subject.� PLA if done right can
> be pretty strong, but other filaments done right are stronger.
> 
> I like this video showing how a veteran at 3d printing goes about
> refining his process for printing in nylon.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MFX1whwjGg
> 
> Here is a video where some guys test out different filaments on a 15
> horsepower outboard motor.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scUEEQyC0GI
> 
> 
> Keep in mind, the odor will be much worse using any filament besides
> PLA, and most will need a hot end that can do the higher temperatures.
> 
> Also with higher temperatures you might want to put a box around the
> printer to keep drafts from messing up a print. One guy uses grow tents
> around his printers.

I found when doing ABS during the summer a year or two ago that with the 
sunroom location sitting at about 32C the ABS came out nicely without any 
issues.  I had the sliding door open to the outside for venting.  The door is 
almost right by the printer.  Odour was not a problem. 

But, later in the afternoon on a 4th printing of the same object, it cooled 
outside a bit and the wind picked up.  That slight breeze across the printer 
was enough to essentially spoil the 4th print.

So it's not might want a heated enclosure.  It's really a must have heated 
enclosure.

John



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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[cogoman via Emc-users]

On 5/29/20 8:44 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

In this case, openscad gives me the tools I want right now, and I could
even do a set of gears for stage 2 of the reduction since that spacing
is almost too close for a belt coupling. So by using the correct tooth
profiles it could make a very usefull gearset, no belt at all, and a
higher reduction at the same time. But would those teeth be strong
enough. Worth a try IMO. And a swarf cover from the printer should be
doable.



Strength of 3d printed parts is a deep subject.  PLA if done right can 
be pretty strong, but other filaments done right are stronger.


I like this video showing how a veteran at 3d printing goes about 
refining his process for printing in nylon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MFX1whwjGg

Here is a video where some guys test out different filaments on a 15 
horsepower outboard motor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scUEEQyC0GI


Keep in mind, the odor will be much worse using any filament besides 
PLA, and most will need a hot end that can do the higher temperatures.


Also with higher temperatures you might want to put a box around the 
printer to keep drafts from messing up a print. One guy uses grow tents 
around his printers.






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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

This is a common misconception about Fusion 360, that you must rely on them
to "keep your data safe".  Yes they keep a copy (or actually Amazon keeps a
copy as Autodesk rents space on Amazon S3.) but you can have copies locally
too.The data is cached on your computer and most users will
periodically save to the local computer and do backups.

So it is both ways.I like that they keep a copy.  it is the ONLY way a
distributed team can access the design.  How will you work with others if
the data is only on your PC.   Please don't say you will email the files
around.   Then how to back out a change.  You need a log.  OK you can check
in design files every few hours to Github.   But that is using cloud
storage too.   The only good DIY option is to stand up yu own version
control server so you can roll back from mistakes.  OnShape does this
best.  But it is impossible to work if each team member has private copies
of the data on his own computer.

Just don't worry about losing data.  You can keep it locally but in
reality, Amazon S3 is 100 times more secure than anything you can afford to
set up.  Very few company make frequent off-site backups.

Use whatever you like but don't make a decision based on a misconception.
I even think "what happens if Fusion disappears?" So I keep the design
backup up as STEP files that will import to any CAD system.

alibre runs only on Windows, Fusion is windows/Mac.  I think Solidworks in
Windows only also.  OnShape is universal and runs on the web.   I think
Onshape has the best data managment and is best for a distributed team.
Fusion is 2nd place.   From an ease of use, onshape and fusion are good.
   If you run Linus there is just one professional level option, OnShape

BTW, as I type, I think I finally got the last part I need designed and
checked.  Time to print it.  I should have the item below in about 22 hours
[image: ZbaseplateNew.jpg]


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 11:33 PM andrew beck 
wrote:

> john.  slightly off topic..  I was going to message you direct but thought
> others might be interested..
>
>
> I have been looking at alibre at the moment.
>
> I tried at 6 months ago and found it much harder to use than solidworks or
> fusion360.  But I am friends with a large company here that designs and
> builds custom machines and exports them around the world.  they use alibre
> for everything so it must be pretty capable.  (they even have a machine
> shop in america.  (this is just a little old new zealand company remember)
>
> anyway how did you find the learning curve.  I am really keen to start
> using something that is not cloud based like fusion 360.  I think as a
> company running a machine shop relying on autodesk halfway across the world
> to keep my data safe is not a good thing.  No matter what they say about
> it.  and if there is a good alternative I am all ears.  I really dislike
> cloud software.  fusion 360 is awesome and I really like it.  I will
> probably always use it for some things that alibre cam can't do.  and the
> price is right  but once again cloud software is a big no no in my book
>
> regards
>
> Andrew
>
> the
>
> On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:31 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: May-29-20 9:33 PM
> > > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone
> > >
> > > I'd place AlibreCAD on the list of "normal" or "modern" 3D CAD systems.
> > > Like a scaled down version of Fusion, or SolidWorks.   The workflow you
> > use
> > > is very conventional.  Except AlibreCAD is "windows only" and not free.
> > >
> > > What workflow do you use for getting AlibreCAD designs to the CNC mill?
> > >  Does AlibreCAD have a CAM add-on or is there a 3rd party software.
>  One
> > > of the things I like about Fusion is that it will directly make g-code
> > for
> > > a mill or lathe.   I would like to hear from others how they go about
> > going
> > > from design to both printing and milling.
> >
> > It's called AlibreCAM and costs money too.  It's a version of Mecsoft CAM
> > that is integrated into AlibreCAD.  So you can flip back and forth
> between
> > the two.  When you load AlibreCAM from AlibreCAD it remembers that you
> have
> > CNC operations for the drawing and asks if you want them loaded.  I have
> > the level that supports the 4th axis.  A new version has been released.
> I
> > haven't checked yet whether they have solved the 4th axis motion problem.
> > But apparently that exists in a lot of CAM programs.
> >
> > A refresher.   If you se

Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May-29-20 11:31 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone
> 
> john.  slightly off topic..  I was going to message you direct but thought
> others might be interested..
> 
> 
> I have been looking at alibre at the moment.
> 
> I tried at 6 months ago and found it much harder to use than solidworks or
> fusion360.  But I am friends with a large company here that designs and
> builds custom machines and exports them around the world.  they use alibre
> for everything so it must be pretty capable.  (they even have a machine
> shop in america.  (this is just a little old new zealand company remember)
> 
> anyway how did you find the learning curve.  I am really keen to start
> using something that is not cloud based like fusion 360.  I think as a
> company running a machine shop relying on autodesk halfway across the world
> to keep my data safe is not a good thing.  No matter what they say about
> it.  and if there is a good alternative I am all ears.  I really dislike
> cloud software.  fusion 360 is awesome and I really like it.  I will
> probably always use it for some things that alibre cam can't do.  and the
> price is right  but once again cloud software is a big no no in my book
> 
> regards
> 
> Andrew
> 

Hi Andrew,
My formal education is a major in Computer Science and minor in Electrical 
Engineering.  Now it might well be the same as Computer Engineering.   And I 
went into it as a mature student and wanted to learn rather than memorize.I 
think it coloured how I look at the world and computer applications.  I was 
also involved in music for many years.

For some reason I could never 'get' Autocad even with formal drafting classes 
in school.  Something about memorizing and drawing from a command line 
perspective or something.  For the same reason it's probably been pretty 
obvious how much I dislike the 1970's user command line interface.  Not that I 
don't build that sort of thing into micro-processor based products with 2K RAM 
and 8K Flash but I don't think it has a place in GUI based systems.

Even editing had me with Wordmaster Pro and Wordstar rather than WordPerfect 
even though WordPerfect was the more popular editor.  It was the style of user 
interface.  The idea that you type F6 F5 F7 F7 F8 to print a document (how a 
secretary explained it to me once) showed that if you memorized sequences you 
were able to use the program.

So years ago when Alibre was first made available free and then for a low cost 
they seemed to press my buttons compared to Solidworks and SolidEdge.And I 
regret to say over the years, through the purchase by Geomagic and then resale 
back to the Alibre designers, they have drifted away a bit from the user 
interface I found easy to use.   Especially with assemblies.  I struggle with 
those now when I used to find them simple.

I followed some of the Fusion 360 Tutorials a while back when I friend decided 
that he'd rather go that way even though I raved about Alibre.  For me it was 
WordPerfect all over again.  I don't know exactly why I don't find it easy to 
use.

So my suggestion is first perhaps ignore the cost side.  Instead, try each 
system, then decide which fits the best for your style of work.  Then, decide 
if cost is a consideration.  Remove the high cost software and evaluate again.  
You may find Fusion is your best choice.

There's certainly no guarantee that Fusion will remain free or will become so 
crippled that you are forced to buy.  Or that Alibre or the simple inexpensive 
version will stay that way or be sold again to some other company.

But for now I'm staying with it.  That dual pulley was easy to draw and model.  
And I moved dimensions around until it matched what I wanted.  But I also know 
I use a fraction of its abilities.  I don't use the parametrics nearly enough.  
 Maybe one day I'll sit down and learn a few more of the features.

But overall I suggest use what feels the most intuitive for you.

John





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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

The 8gb Pi4 would be ideal for 64bit Open Media Vault with Mini DLNA.


On Friday, May 29, 2020, 2:18:22 PM MDT, Chris Albertson 
 wrote:  
 
 About that 8GB Raspberry Pi4.  I think it might be over kill for a machine
controller unless you like runing a webbrowser and waching Youtube whie the
mill is cutting.      Notice the 8GB is $75 and the 2GB is $35.  There is
a robotic list I'm on ad the question was Which is faster two $35 Pi4 or
one $75 Pi4.  I am very sure that for the robot use case I'd get better
performance for $70.  Likley also for the machinist who wants to watch
Ytube whie cutting metal, Save $5 and get twice as much CPU power.

The $75 8GB Pi4 is perfect for the person who wants a desktop PC.  That is
the target user for this.

If yu need a cheap PC  Yo can buy quad-core Xeon systems for under $100 now
https://www.newegg.com/hp-proliant-dl380-g7-639828-005-rack/p/N82E16859107039
The Pi4 is great if you have very limited space or must run on battery
power.  Good for robots.  But I don't see the point if there is an AC
mains wall socket nearby. and you are installing inside something as big as
an office.  These 1U size servers are selling for pennies on the dollar
when they come off-lease and are PERFECT for industrial uses like CNC.  
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andrew beck]

john.  slightly off topic..  I was going to message you direct but thought
others might be interested..


I have been looking at alibre at the moment.

I tried at 6 months ago and found it much harder to use than solidworks or
fusion360.  But I am friends with a large company here that designs and
builds custom machines and exports them around the world.  they use alibre
for everything so it must be pretty capable.  (they even have a machine
shop in america.  (this is just a little old new zealand company remember)

anyway how did you find the learning curve.  I am really keen to start
using something that is not cloud based like fusion 360.  I think as a
company running a machine shop relying on autodesk halfway across the world
to keep my data safe is not a good thing.  No matter what they say about
it.  and if there is a good alternative I am all ears.  I really dislike
cloud software.  fusion 360 is awesome and I really like it.  I will
probably always use it for some things that alibre cam can't do.  and the
price is right  but once again cloud software is a big no no in my book

regards

Andrew

the

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:31 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: May-29-20 9:33 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone
> >
> > I'd place AlibreCAD on the list of "normal" or "modern" 3D CAD systems.
> > Like a scaled down version of Fusion, or SolidWorks.   The workflow you
> use
> > is very conventional.  Except AlibreCAD is "windows only" and not free.
> >
> > What workflow do you use for getting AlibreCAD designs to the CNC mill?
> >  Does AlibreCAD have a CAM add-on or is there a 3rd party software.   One
> > of the things I like about Fusion is that it will directly make g-code
> for
> > a mill or lathe.   I would like to hear from others how they go about
> going
> > from design to both printing and milling.
>
> It's called AlibreCAM and costs money too.  It's a version of Mecsoft CAM
> that is integrated into AlibreCAD.  So you can flip back and forth between
> the two.  When you load AlibreCAM from AlibreCAD it remembers that you have
> CNC operations for the drawing and asks if you want them loaded.  I have
> the level that supports the 4th axis.  A new version has been released.  I
> haven't checked yet whether they have solved the 4th axis motion problem.
> But apparently that exists in a lot of CAM programs.
>
> A refresher.   If you set F4 for the imperial machine then the feed rate
> is 4 IPM.If you want 4 IPM on a rotary object the system has to know
> where Z is relative to the axis of rotation to move the rotary axis at a
> speed that creates 4 IPM.  As the diameter (Z axis) changes the rotary
> movement should change.
>
> This is similar to a CNC lathe changing the spindle speed as the X axis
> moves inwards to maintain the same SFM.
>
> There are aftermarket programs that will process G-Code to fix this for
> CAM programs that don't do it right.  The last time I checked Mecsoft did
> not do it right.  I don't believe Fusion does it either.
>
> John
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:28 PM John Dammeyer 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I use AlibreCAD to draw the item. In this case half of a pulley pattern
> > > for the mill conversion.I export the file as an STL.  I then load
> that
> > > with Repetier which is configured for my printer.  I can turn it and
> > > position it exactly where I want it on the print bed.  I then slice it
> and
> > > save the .gode file.
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Chris Albertson
> > Redondo Beach, California
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

There is no "debian version" because it is universal.  Instructions here
https://appimage.org

That said, it needs an Intel CPU, not a Pi and likely a 64 bit OS.

Other slicers?
1) Slic3r https://dl.slic3r.org/linux/  (also an appimage)
2) ?


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:52 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 29 May 2020 22:00:00 Gene Heskett wrote:
>
> > On Friday 29 May 2020 21:42:40 andy pugh wrote:
> > > On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 02:32, Gene Heskett 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Cura isn't available for debian, so name another slicer.
>
-- 

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Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Chris Albertson [mailto:albertson.ch...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May-29-20 9:33 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone
> 
> I'd place AlibreCAD on the list of "normal" or "modern" 3D CAD systems.
> Like a scaled down version of Fusion, or SolidWorks.   The workflow you use
> is very conventional.  Except AlibreCAD is "windows only" and not free.
> 
> What workflow do you use for getting AlibreCAD designs to the CNC mill?
>  Does AlibreCAD have a CAM add-on or is there a 3rd party software.   One
> of the things I like about Fusion is that it will directly make g-code for
> a mill or lathe.   I would like to hear from others how they go about going
> from design to both printing and milling.

It's called AlibreCAM and costs money too.  It's a version of Mecsoft CAM that 
is integrated into AlibreCAD.  So you can flip back and forth between the two.  
When you load AlibreCAM from AlibreCAD it remembers that you have CNC 
operations for the drawing and asks if you want them loaded.  I have the level 
that supports the 4th axis.  A new version has been released.  I haven't 
checked yet whether they have solved the 4th axis motion problem.  But 
apparently that exists in a lot of CAM programs.

A refresher.   If you set F4 for the imperial machine then the feed rate is 4 
IPM.If you want 4 IPM on a rotary object the system has to know where Z is 
relative to the axis of rotation to move the rotary axis at a speed that 
creates 4 IPM.  As the diameter (Z axis) changes the rotary movement should 
change.

This is similar to a CNC lathe changing the spindle speed as the X axis moves 
inwards to maintain the same SFM.

There are aftermarket programs that will process G-Code to fix this for CAM 
programs that don't do it right.  The last time I checked Mecsoft did not do it 
right.  I don't believe Fusion does it either.

John



> 
> 
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:28 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > I use AlibreCAD to draw the item. In this case half of a pulley pattern
> > for the mill conversion.I export the file as an STL.  I then load that
> > with Repetier which is configured for my printer.  I can turn it and
> > position it exactly where I want it on the print bed.  I then slice it and
> > save the .gode file.
> >
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

Most 3D printers have an SD card slot and almost everyone simply puts the
g-code on the card.  The printer then runs all by itself and it is
ultra-reliable, beig self-contained.

But some of us are lazy and impatient.  If I run Octoprint on a Pi3 and put
the Pi3 on my WiFi then I can just drop the g-code file into the file->open
box and the printer starts and I don't have to walk the SD card across the
room.Octoprint can also live-stream video if I give it a webcam aimed
at the print bed and it reports progress. Sounds neat but (big BUT) you
still need to walk over to the printer to visually check it is adjusted
correctly and the glue or hairspray is working.  3D printing is not "plug
and play" and many times manual fiddling is required.   I'd start with
using SD cards but plan later for more automation.

For a first attempt just download the little boat test object, copy to SD
card, insert and press "print from SD card" and watch the printer either
(1) make a bird's nest of plastic spaghetti or (2) do nothing.   You want
the simplest possible workflow at the beginning because you WILL have to
debug.

Yes, Octoprint is good.

But like most people on this list, I already have a computer in my shop
that runs LinuxCNC.My plan is to put Octoprint on that computer.
 Using a Pi is easy because there is an SD card image with a pre-installed
Octoprint for Pi but it seems a waste to own one computer for each program
I need.   The LinuxCNC machine should be total overkill for Octoprint.

THANK YOU for that link to the Unimat CNC conversion.   That guy wins for
the cleanest and most simple solution I've seen to date.One idea is
worth gold:  Notice that he placed timing belt teeth on the handwheel.  The
handwheel is the pulley.  *Brilliant*.   What could be easier than using a
motor to turn the existing handwheels?

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:22 PM Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> If the printer has a network port it should be possible to use it as a
> network printer to send it the sliced gcode file.
>
> There's freeware called Octoprint that runs on a computer (most often a
> Raspberry Pi) that's network connected and that then feeds the gcode to the
> printer. Printers that have built in slicing of STL tend to be 
> commercial machines, unless that capability has filtered down to us peons
> recently.
>
>A good thing to do is download some testing STL files (such as a cube,
> one with various features in graduated sizes, and the Benchy boat) then try
> various settings in various slicer programs until you get the test object
> printing well with the filament you're using. Change something about the
> filament, manufacturer, material, fillers etc and it's very likely
> something will need adjusted in settings, at least for temperature.
>
> I should check on the progress of a project to design 3D printed CNC
> conversion brackets for a Unimat lathe
> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1785310
> On Friday, May 29, 2020, 5:51:31 AM MDT, Gene Heskett <
> ghesk...@shentel.net> wrote:
>  On Friday 29 May 2020 02:53:55 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
>
> I'll check that as I'm assembling it.  Otherwise the fire risk and
> potential odor would seem to be tolerable, at least for a test run for
> effect.
>
> I assume it will accept an .stl file over a cat5 cable?
> ___
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 22:00:00 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Friday 29 May 2020 21:42:40 andy pugh wrote:
> > On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 02:32, Gene Heskett 
> > wrote:
> >
> > Cura isn't available for debian, so name another slicer.
> >
> >
> >  I think it is, but seems to be 64 bit only.
> >
> > You could try Slic3r
>
> I'll do that, thanks
>
Wow. Installed both hits, 61 dependencies. And apparently has no default 
default options.  And from the man page, must have close to 69! option 
vars to set and save. I think I'll look for a tut.

> Cheers, Gene Heskett


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

Some people use only a piece of clean plain window glass with no coating of any 
kind for PLA.

Ivan Miranda uses mirrors on his print beds. He's built several printers, some 
very large. He uses so much PLA that Aprintapro just gives him what he needs, 
as long as he plugs their filament in his videos. They even named the red color 
he uses for everything, "Mirandament". His latest project is a tracked vehicle 
large enough for him to ride inside. Body, tracks, wheels all made from PLA.

On my Monoprice Mini I have a piece of glass from a picture frame, covered with 
one wide sheet of Kapton. I scrub some glue stick on it then gently wipe with a 
wet paper towel. By the time the bed's warmed up the glue dries to an even 
film. Works far better than the blue painter's tape I was using.
Masking tape of any sort needs a wipe with rubbing alcohol to strip the wax 
coating or prints either won't stick at all or worse, pop loose partway through 
a job.

On Friday, May 29, 2020, 12:13:31 PM MDT, Chris Albertson 
 wrote:  
 The only large mass that moves is the table and only in the Y direction.
The extruder moves in the X direction but weighs nearly nothing.  The Z
direction moves about 0.2 mm every few minutes  So if there is any
movement it is near the base near the table.  There is not much mass to
shake the vertical beams

But the reason I bolted the printer to the workbench is to keep the
alignment stable.  Once getting the bed level, moving the printer would
un-level it.  The screws prevents me from moving the printer with my hands.
  If the workbench were a ground granite slab then I guess I would not care
but it is wood and not close to flat.  Guy wires would not help.  What I
cared about was the base warping and changing shape.  You can not pick up a
printer and move it and expect not to have to re-align it.  So I bolted it
down and now it is more stable and will keep alignment for days at a time.

What happens is that a part gets stuck to the build plate and some force is
needed to remove it.  The force applied by my fingers (or a plastic mallet
and plastic putty knife) and moves the printer.  Yes I have to resort to
the mallet frequently.  It is the least-bad option.  I'd rather need to pry
the part off the table then to have it come loose half way though the
print.  But if you use any force you move the printer.  Some people solve
this differently.  Long learning process and then you tend to stick with
whatever works.  
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

I'd place AlibreCAD on the list of "normal" or "modern" 3D CAD systems.
Like a scaled down version of Fusion, or SolidWorks.   The workflow you use
is very conventional.  Except AlibreCAD is "windows only" and not free.

What workflow do you use for getting AlibreCAD designs to the CNC mill?
 Does AlibreCAD have a CAM add-on or is there a 3rd party software.   One
of the things I like about Fusion is that it will directly make g-code for
a mill or lathe.   I would like to hear from others how they go about going
from design to both printing and milling.


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:28 PM John Dammeyer 
wrote:

>
> I use AlibreCAD to draw the item. In this case half of a pulley pattern
> for the mill conversion.I export the file as an STL.  I then load that
> with Repetier which is configured for my printer.  I can turn it and
> position it exactly where I want it on the print bed.  I then slice it and
> save the .gode file.
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

If the printer has a network port it should be possible to use it as a network 
printer to send it the sliced gcode file.

There's freeware called Octoprint that runs on a computer (most often a 
Raspberry Pi) that's network connected and that then feeds the gcode to the 
printer. Printers that have built in slicing of STL tend to be  commercial 
machines, unless that capability has filtered down to us peons recently.

   A good thing to do is download some testing STL files (such as a cube, one 
with various features in graduated sizes, and the Benchy boat) then try various 
settings in various slicer programs until you get the test object printing well 
with the filament you're using. Change something about the filament, 
manufacturer, material, fillers etc and it's very likely something will need 
adjusted in settings, at least for temperature.
 
I should check on the progress of a project to design 3D printed CNC conversion 
brackets for a Unimat lathe https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1785310
On Friday, May 29, 2020, 5:51:31 AM MDT, Gene Heskett  
wrote:  
 On Friday 29 May 2020 02:53:55 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

I'll check that as I'm assembling it.  Otherwise the fire risk and 
potential odor would seem to be tolerable, at least for a test run for 
effect.

I assume it will accept an .stl file over a cat5 cable?  
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 21:42:40 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 02:32, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> Cura isn't available for debian, so name another slicer.
>
>
>  I think it is, but seems to be 64 bit only.
>
> You could try Slic3r

I'll do that, thanks

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 02:32, Gene Heskett  wrote:

Cura isn't available for debian, so name another slicer.


 I think it is, but seems to be 64 bit only.

You could try Slic3r

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 20:56:36 andy pugh wrote:

> On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 01:47, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> But I find that octoprint is part of octopi, which I have just now
>
> > downloaded so now I'll need to obtain a 2nd 2G r-pi4 and basicly
> > duplicate the hardware driving the Sheldon right now. I wasn't
> > counting on that expense but.  Apparently it talks to the printer
> > with some software protocol I've not yet discovered.
>
> You don't need Octoprint. It's a nice way to run the printer through a
> web interface, but it is entirely optional.
>
> Create a model
> save as STL
> Convert to G-code with a Slicer (such as Cura) on the same PC as you
> created the model on.
>
Cura isn't available for debian, so name another slicer.

> 3D printers wouldn't have caught on at all if they all _needed_ 3 more
> computers to make them work.
>
> Take the G-code to the printer on an SD card.
>
> This fellow doing Octoprint, guysoft, came to the pi scene 2 years ago
>
> > with the realtime-pi project,
>
> Octoprint is actually the full-time work of Gina Häußge. Guysoft just
> packages it on the Pi.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Greg Bernard]

The slicing can be done on your desktop machine directly after you create
your stl.
No need for a 3rd computer in the chain.

On Fri, May 29, 2020, 7:47 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 29 May 2020 19:23:58 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > Let's say you had one of THESE https://a360.co/2RLRoxw (be sure and
> > try the "explode" control and slider.  It is VERY impressive, no not
> > my work) and wanted to adapt it for use with LinuxCNC by adding
> > motors.
> >
> > So your first step is to replace the lead screw with a zero-backlash
> > ball screw and make mounts of the screw's nut on the carriage and
> > verify all the clearance. This is the entire point of 3D model is
> > as shown in the above link.   I can verify the entire design before
> > making a part. I can answer questions like "where do the glass
> > slides go and how to route the cables?"  I can add the slides to the
> > model and move the parts to verify clearances.
> >
> > How to do that with OpenSCAD?   Can you even say things like "make
> > this new part to mate with that existing part" or must you make the
> > new part from scratch using measurements pulled from the existing
> > part?
> >
> > Motorizing the BS1 is EXACTLY this process, you start with a stock BS1
> > then change out some parts, verify it all works then print and cut the
> > parts. You REALLY want the ability to test-fit and fix and have that
> > take about a minute at most.   openscad is such an unusual and
> > specialized product I'd hate to recommend it for general design work..
> >  But it is good for making a single standalone parameterized part.
> > Like a gear but not a motorcycle or a milling machine.
> >
> In this case, openscad gives me the tools I want right now, and I could
> even do a set of gears for stage 2 of the reduction since that spacing
> is almost too close for a belt coupling. So by using the correct tooth
> profiles it could make a very usefull gearset, no belt at all, and a
> higher reduction at the same time. But would those teeth be strong
> enough. Worth a try IMO. And a swarf cover from the printer should be
> doable.
>
> But I find that octoprint is part of octopi, which I have just now
> downloaded so now I'll need to obtain a 2nd 2G r-pi4 and basicly
> duplicate the hardware driving the Sheldon right now. I wasn't counting
> on that expense but.  Apparently it talks to the printer with some
> software protocol I've not yet discovered.
>
> Hopefully it won't require another mesa card.  Or I'm confused. At one
> point it was said I could take the .stl file to the printer on an sd
> card. Now you folks want me to buy another pi to do the slicing.
>
> plz clarify. I have the pi3b I took out of the Sheldon, and at the github
> page its says it will work, but the pi4 is many times faster than a 3.
>
> This fellow doing Octoprint, guysoft, came to the pi scene 2 years ago
> with the realtime-pi project, but about the time they got the new faster
> video drivers, dissappeared again, which is why I had to build my own
> preempt-rt kernel from scratch for the Sheldon.  Then I couldn't just
> make a deb and install it, so I figured out how to make a 30 meg tarball
> out of the important stuff, installed that with a card reader, and its
> working great. 16 u-secs latency-test's.
>
> Thanks for any clarifications.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 01:47, Gene Heskett  wrote:

But I find that octoprint is part of octopi, which I have just now
> downloaded so now I'll need to obtain a 2nd 2G r-pi4 and basicly
> duplicate the hardware driving the Sheldon right now. I wasn't counting
> on that expense but.  Apparently it talks to the printer with some
> software protocol I've not yet discovered.


You don't need Octoprint. It's a nice way to run the printer through a web
interface, but it is entirely optional.

Create a model
save as STL
Convert to G-code with a Slicer (such as Cura) on the same PC as you
created the model on.

3D printers wouldn't have caught on at all if they all _needed_ 3 more
computers to make them work.

Take the G-code to the printer on an SD card.

This fellow doing Octoprint, guysoft, came to the pi scene 2 years ago
> with the realtime-pi project,


Octoprint is actually the full-time work of Gina Häußge. Guysoft just
packages it on the Pi.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 19:23:58 Chris Albertson wrote:

> Let's say you had one of THESE https://a360.co/2RLRoxw (be sure and
> try the "explode" control and slider.  It is VERY impressive, no not
> my work) and wanted to adapt it for use with LinuxCNC by adding
> motors.
>
> So your first step is to replace the lead screw with a zero-backlash
> ball screw and make mounts of the screw's nut on the carriage and
> verify all the clearance. This is the entire point of 3D model is
> as shown in the above link.   I can verify the entire design before
> making a part. I can answer questions like "where do the glass
> slides go and how to route the cables?"  I can add the slides to the
> model and move the parts to verify clearances.
>
> How to do that with OpenSCAD?   Can you even say things like "make
> this new part to mate with that existing part" or must you make the
> new part from scratch using measurements pulled from the existing
> part?
>
> Motorizing the BS1 is EXACTLY this process, you start with a stock BS1
> then change out some parts, verify it all works then print and cut the
> parts. You REALLY want the ability to test-fit and fix and have that
> take about a minute at most.   openscad is such an unusual and
> specialized product I'd hate to recommend it for general design work..
>  But it is good for making a single standalone parameterized part. 
> Like a gear but not a motorcycle or a milling machine.
>
In this case, openscad gives me the tools I want right now, and I could 
even do a set of gears for stage 2 of the reduction since that spacing 
is almost too close for a belt coupling. So by using the correct tooth 
profiles it could make a very usefull gearset, no belt at all, and a 
higher reduction at the same time. But would those teeth be strong 
enough. Worth a try IMO. And a swarf cover from the printer should be 
doable.

But I find that octoprint is part of octopi, which I have just now 
downloaded so now I'll need to obtain a 2nd 2G r-pi4 and basicly 
duplicate the hardware driving the Sheldon right now. I wasn't counting 
on that expense but.  Apparently it talks to the printer with some 
software protocol I've not yet discovered.

Hopefully it won't require another mesa card.  Or I'm confused. At one 
point it was said I could take the .stl file to the printer on an sd 
card. Now you folks want me to buy another pi to do the slicing.

plz clarify. I have the pi3b I took out of the Sheldon, and at the github 
page its says it will work, but the pi4 is many times faster than a 3.

This fellow doing Octoprint, guysoft, came to the pi scene 2 years ago 
with the realtime-pi project, but about the time they got the new faster 
video drivers, dissappeared again, which is why I had to build my own 
preempt-rt kernel from scratch for the Sheldon.  Then I couldn't just 
make a deb and install it, so I figured out how to make a 30 meg tarball 
out of the important stuff, installed that with a card reader, and its 
working great. 16 u-secs latency-test's.

Thanks for any clarifications.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

Let's say you had one of THESE https://a360.co/2RLRoxw (be sure and try
the "explode" control and slider.  It is VERY impressive, no not my work)
and wanted to adapt it for use with LinuxCNC by adding motors.

So your first step is to replace the lead screw with a zero-backlash ball
screw and make mounts of the screw's nut on the carriage and verify all the
clearance. This is the entire point of 3D model is as shown in the
above link.   I can verify the entire design before making a part. I
can answer questions like "where do the glass slides go and how to route
the cables?"  I can add the slides to the model and move the parts to
verify clearances.

How to do that with OpenSCAD?   Can you even say things like "make this new
part to mate with that existing part" or must you make the new part from
scratch using measurements pulled from the existing part?

Motorizing the BS1 is EXACTLY this process, you start with a stock BS1 then
change out some parts, verify it all works then print and cut the parts.
You REALLY want the ability to test-fit and fix and have that take about a
minute at most.   openscad is such an unusual and specialized product I'd
hate to recommend it for general design work..  But it is good for making a
single standalone parameterized part.  Like a gear but not a motorcycle or
a milling machine.

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 1:10 PM Lawrence Glaister  wrote:

> On 2020-05-29 12:09 p.m., Gene Heskett wrote:
>
>  >
>  > And I just heard a vehicle stop and when I got to the front door, there
>  > was a box with an amazon label on it, with two spools of pla and a bag
>  > of spare nozzles in it.  So its starting to trickle in. Surprise, each
>  > spool of pla includes a new hot plate cover.  Overture brand.  Do they
>  > all include that?
>  >
>  > Thanks.
>  >
>  > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>  >
>
> Hi Gene,
> I have been playing with a Creality cr-10 mini for a couple of years.
> When I first bought it, I wasn't sure what I would use it for, but I
> wanted to explore the technology. You are in for a fun ride but it takes
> patience and a little experimenting when things go wrong.
> Using linux, I use the following tools:
>   stl  gcode  usb serial
> OPENSCAD --> CURA --> REPETIERHOST --> 3D printer
> design   cam  stream gcode to machine
>
> openscad is like a little scripting language where you describe your
> part geometry.
> openscad exports stl files (triangular surface models)
> cura takes the stl file and converts it to gcode that moves the
> printhead around and controls the plastic extrusion nozzle.
> You can put the gcode file on an sd card and plug it into the printer or
> I use repetier host as a gui that draws pretty pictures as it streams
> the gcode to the printer. The gcode files are quite large as everything
> is repeated a lot as the approx 0.2mm layers of plastic are piled up.
>
> some of the little gadgets I have designed for my projects:
> https://www.thingiverse.com/ve7it/designs
>
> I also have used the overture filament... seems to do the trick!
> I dont use the hot plate cover.. I used to print on the glass bed, but
> recently I have been using 2" wide blue painters tape on the bed as it
> does tend to grip the objects well and can be replaced if it gets
> damaged when prying off a part. It leaves a nice texture on the bottom
> of the part.
>
> The biggest challenge in getting a print to work is getting the first
> layer printed and stuck to the base material. Mostly this involves
> getting the bed height adjusted properly so the first layer sticks
> evenly. (bed leveling and height adjustment). There are lots of software
> adjustments in cura, but if you select a PLA profile, the defaults will
> be close to getting you a good print youtube is quite helpful if you
> run into issues.
>
> Have fun
>
> cheers
> Lawrence
> Nanoose Bay BC, Canada
>
>
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>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 22:57, Gene Heskett  wrote:

unforch, neither Cura  nor Octoprint can be found in the debian stretch
> repo's.
>

Neither can LinuxCNC.

What would that be called on linux?


https://ultimaker.com/software/ultimaker-cura
https://octoprint.org

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 17:48:26 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 22:26, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> And where do I get this Octoprint, its not in the stretch repo's.
>
> > https://octoprint.org/download/
>
> But I would suggest skipping it for now, Cura on your Desktop PC to SD
> card is a shorter route to Yoda heads and little boats.

But that isn't in the debian repo's either.

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 17:46:09 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 22:14, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> if the stl file is carried to the printer, then cura or similar is
>
> > running on the printer.
>
> No, sorry, I forgot a stage.
>
> In my case Fusion360 and Cura both run on my Mac. Cura know how to
> send the G-code to Octoprint. It can probably also send the g-code to
> your printer, but it can certainly put it on an SD card.
>
> You can (sometimes) slice on the printer. And you can slice in
> Octoprint, bit it probably isn't worth doing. Cura on the CAD Desktop
> is the way to go. See Cura as a specialised CAM package.

unforch, neither Cura  nor Octoprint can be found in the debian stretch 
repo's.

What would that be called on linux?

Thanks


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 22:26, Gene Heskett  wrote:

And where do I get this Octoprint, its not in the stretch repo's.
>
> https://octoprint.org/download/

But I would suggest skipping it for now, Cura on your Desktop PC to SD card
is a shorter route to Yoda heads and little boats.


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 22:14, Gene Heskett  wrote:

if the stl file is carried to the printer, then cura or similar is
> running on the printer.


No, sorry, I forgot a stage.

In my case Fusion360 and Cura both run on my Mac. Cura know how to send the
G-code to Octoprint. It can probably also send the g-code to your printer,
but it can certainly put it on an SD card.

You can (sometimes) slice on the printer. And you can slice in Octoprint,
bit it probably isn't worth doing. Cura on the CAD Desktop is the way to
go. See Cura as a specialised CAM package.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 16:59:49 John Dammeyer wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: May-29-20 1:48 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone
> >
> > On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 21:10, Lawrence Glaister  
wrote:
> > > Using linux, I use the following tools:
> > >   stl  gcode  usb serial
> > > OPENSCAD --> CURA --> REPETIERHOST --> 3D printer
> > > design   cam  stream gcode to machine
> >
> > I use Octoprint, running on a Pi inside the printed case. It gives
> > me a Wifi connection to the printer and a webcam and control
> > interface that I can see from any web browser on the  house network.
>
> Me too.  Mine's a Pi2 now wired rather than WiFi.  Over the last year
> the number of WiFi devices out there has gone up by almost a factor of
> 10 and I found I'd lose video feed.  Now with a wired connection I can
> use Octoprint and watch.
>
And where do I get this Octoprint, its not in the stretch repo's.

Thanks.

> John Dammeyer
>
> > But, to start, I would suggest CAD -> STL on SD card and walk that
> > to the printer.
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics." � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/gene>


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 21:48, andy pugh  wrote:

>
> But, to start, I would suggest CAD -> STL on SD card and walk that to the
> printer.
>

Forget that. It is unlikely that the printer is good at slicing, if it does
it at all.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 16:48:18 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 21:10, Lawrence Glaister  
wrote:
> > Using linux, I use the following tools:
> >   stl  gcode  usb serial
> > OPENSCAD --> CURA --> REPETIERHOST --> 3D printer
> > design   cam  stream gcode to machine
>
> I use Octoprint, running on a Pi inside the printed case. It gives me
> a Wifi connection to the printer and a webcam and control interface
> that I can see from any web browser on the  house network.
>
> But, to start, I would suggest CAD -> STL on SD card and walk that to
> the printer.

if the stl file is carried to the printer, then cura or similar is 
running on the printer.

Thanks

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 16:07:32 Lawrence Glaister wrote:

> On 2020-05-29 12:09 p.m., Gene Heskett wrote:
>  > And I just heard a vehicle stop and when I got to the front door,
>  > there was a box with an amazon label on it, with two spools of pla
>  > and a bag of spare nozzles in it.  So its starting to trickle in.
>  > Surprise, each spool of pla includes a new hot plate cover. 
>  > Overture brand.  Do they all include that?
>  >
>  > Thanks.
>  >
>  > Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Hi Gene,
> I have been playing with a Creality cr-10 mini for a couple of years.
> When I first bought it, I wasn't sure what I would use it for, but I
> wanted to explore the technology. You are in for a fun ride but it
> takes patience and a little experimenting when things go wrong.
> Using linux, I use the following tools:
>   stl  gcode  usb serial
> OPENSCAD --> CURA --> REPETIERHOST --> 3D printer
> design   cam  stream gcode to machine
>
> openscad is like a little scripting language where you describe your
> part geometry.
> openscad exports stl files (triangular surface models)

> cura takes the stl file and converts it to gcode that moves the
> printhead around and controls the plastic extrusion nozzle.

What I was asking. not too well, is what does this "cura" run on?, the 
printer or some computer I need to buy to complete the data chain 
between openscad and the printer?  Or can I run it on this linux box? 
Then export that gcode over cat5 to the printer.

> You can put the gcode file on an sd card and plug it into the printer
> or I use repetier host as a gui that draws pretty pictures as it
> streams the gcode to the printer. The gcode files are quite large as
> everything is repeated a lot as the approx 0.2mm layers of plastic are
> piled up.

I figure they are, much of what code generators produce that runs to 
several gigs per part, can also be produced by a 100 line gcode file 
using loops.  The diff at the part level isn't, but one can be gigabytes 
where the other might be 4000 characters. Your own optical encoder wheel 
is a good example, I've further modified it and used it, several tines 
now.  Thank you.
>
> some of the little gadgets I have designed for my projects:
> https://www.thingiverse.com/ve7it/designs
>
> I also have used the overture filament... seems to do the trick!
> I dont use the hot plate cover.. I used to print on the glass bed, but
> recently I have been using 2" wide blue painters tape on the bed as it
> does tend to grip the objects well and can be replaced if it gets
> damaged when prying off a part. It leaves a nice texture on the bottom
> of the part.
>
> The biggest challenge in getting a print to work is getting the first
> layer printed and stuck to the base material. Mostly this involves
> getting the bed height adjusted properly so the first layer sticks
> evenly. (bed leveling and height adjustment). There are lots of
> software adjustments in cura, but if you select a PLA profile, the
> defaults will be close to getting you a good print youtube is
> quite helpful if you run into issues.
>
> Have fun
>
> cheers
> Lawrence
> Nanoose Bay BC, Canada
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: May-29-20 1:48 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone
> 
> On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 21:10, Lawrence Glaister  wrote:
> 
> >
> > Using linux, I use the following tools:
> >   stl  gcode  usb serial
> > OPENSCAD --> CURA --> REPETIERHOST --> 3D printer
> > design   cam  stream gcode to machine
> >
> 
> I use Octoprint, running on a Pi inside the printed case. It gives me a
> Wifi connection to the printer and a webcam and control interface that I
> can see from any web browser on the  house network.

Me too.  Mine's a Pi2 now wired rather than WiFi.  Over the last year the 
number of WiFi devices out there has gone up by almost a factor of 10 and I 
found I'd lose video feed.  Now with a wired connection I can use Octoprint and 
watch.  

John Dammeyer

> 
> But, to start, I would suggest CAD -> STL on SD card and walk that to the
> printer.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 21:10, Lawrence Glaister  wrote:

>
> Using linux, I use the following tools:
>   stl  gcode  usb serial
> OPENSCAD --> CURA --> REPETIERHOST --> 3D printer
> design   cam  stream gcode to machine
>

I use Octoprint, running on a Pi inside the printed case. It gives me a
Wifi connection to the printer and a webcam and control interface that I
can see from any web browser on the  house network.

But, to start, I would suggest CAD -> STL on SD card and walk that to the
printer.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

About that 8GB Raspberry Pi4.  I think it might be over kill for a machine
controller unless you like runing a webbrowser and waching Youtube whie the
mill is cutting.  Notice the 8GB is $75 and the 2GB is $35.   There is
a robotic list I'm on ad the question was Which is faster two $35 Pi4 or
one $75 Pi4.   I am very sure that for the robot use case I'd get better
performance for $70.  Likley also for the machinist who wants to watch
Ytube whie cutting metal, Save $5 and get twice as much CPU power.

The $75 8GB Pi4 is perfect for the person who wants a desktop PC.  That is
the target user for this.

If yu need a cheap PC  Yo can buy quad-core Xeon systems for under $100 now
https://www.newegg.com/hp-proliant-dl380-g7-639828-005-rack/p/N82E16859107039
The Pi4 is great if you have very limited space or must run on battery
power.   Good for robots.   But I don't see the point if there is an AC
mains wall socket nearby. and you are installing inside something as big as
an office.   These 1U size servers are selling for pennies on the dollar
when they come off-lease and are PERFECT for industrial uses like CNC.






 After downloading the part's CAD file.  You import it to your CAD
software.   You have a wide choice in selecting CAD software.  I use Fusion
360.  Fusion runs only on Windows and Mac.   For a Linux system the best
option is https://www.onshape.com and many people will argue it is simply
the best option in any case.I'd argue for Fusion if you also have CNC
tools.   Either is a full pro-level solution.

My test for choosing CAD is to ask yourself if you could see yourself
making something as complex as a cordless drill after 4 or  months of
study.   Very few free CAD systems are that good.


After re-working the file to make it better fit your needs save it as an
STL.

If you download a part it might need modification to make it easier to
print.   For example, the timing pulley has a slightly concave top
surface.  I made it dead-flat so that I could print it on a flat build
plate with no support under it.   I wanted thicker flanges too as the 1.5
mm would be fine in metal but to flexible in plastic.   The set screw was
M3 and in plastic M4 is better.  Some times the part is awkward to print
and has to be cut, printed and then glued.  In general you need to be
decent with your CAD system.   All good CAD system have on-line classes and
it is worth doing them.

CAD files are editable and contain the structure of the part and have
things inside line "M4" size threads and filets and logical stuff.  STL is
"just triangles" and all the "designer's intent" of the part is gone.  STL
files are just approximations of the shape with zero structure.  So saving
to STL is a one-way process.   Yes STL is only an approximate shape as all
the curves are converted to triangles.

Next you need to turn STL into g-code.   Everyone here knows what g-code
is.  But for printing the printer makes  layer after layer each about 0.1
or 0.2 mm tall. so the g-code files are huge with millions of lines of
code.  You need "slicer" software.  Again there are many.  I
like "Cura".   Cura runs on Window/Mac/Linux.

Cura allows a beginner to use some defaults and is very much automatic.
 but also you can find HUNDREDS of parameters and editing options to make
changes to the way an object is printed.The STL file only defines the
exterior surface.   Cura allows you to specify which side is up and down,
the skin thickness and what is to go inside th object.  you can set
quality, speed and temperatures and well over 100 other things. Then
they added the abilty to have different setting for different parts of the
object so now I find I use thicker plastic for areas with more stress.

Then yu need to get the g-code into the printer.   Most printers will have
a slot for an SD card.  Copy the g-code to an SD and walk it over to
the printer.  Yes you can connect the PC to the printer with USB but do you
really want to tie up a PC for many hours?  Just use an SD card and there
is then ZERO chance a PC glitch will ruin an hours-long print.  Printing
from an SD card is more reliable.

Back to the sproket.Of late I just hollow out the gear or pulley with a
(say) 20mm hole.   Then make a 20mm OD bushing to fet the shaft in metal.
Press fit the two together.I've not found a reliable way to transfor
torge from a 6mm metal shaft to a PLA printed gear and have it last.

My next idea is to buy a steel bolt with a hex head and make the bushing
from that so I can print a hex shat to fit the head.   In any case metal
hubs work best and plastic gear tech work surprizinging well.  my plastic
gears tend to fail at the hub.


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 11:22 AM Thaddeus Waldner 
wrote:

>
> > I've dl'd that sprocket file, now what do I do with it to make a
> > printable .stl? _Unpack it, see openscad mentioned, install openscad and
> > friends, explore. For single sheeve, looks great.  Obviously will need
> > to figure out how to do 

Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Lawrence Glaister]

On 2020-05-29 12:09 p.m., Gene Heskett wrote:

>
> And I just heard a vehicle stop and when I got to the front door, there
> was a box with an amazon label on it, with two spools of pla and a bag
> of spare nozzles in it.  So its starting to trickle in. Surprise, each
> spool of pla includes a new hot plate cover.  Overture brand.  Do they
> all include that?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
>

Hi Gene,
I have been playing with a Creality cr-10 mini for a couple of years. 
When I first bought it, I wasn't sure what I would use it for, but I 
wanted to explore the technology. You are in for a fun ride but it takes 
patience and a little experimenting when things go wrong.

Using linux, I use the following tools:
 stl  gcode  usb serial
OPENSCAD --> CURA --> REPETIERHOST --> 3D printer
design   cam  stream gcode to machine

openscad is like a little scripting language where you describe your 
part geometry.

openscad exports stl files (triangular surface models)
cura takes the stl file and converts it to gcode that moves the 
printhead around and controls the plastic extrusion nozzle.
You can put the gcode file on an sd card and plug it into the printer or 
I use repetier host as a gui that draws pretty pictures as it streams 
the gcode to the printer. The gcode files are quite large as everything 
is repeated a lot as the approx 0.2mm layers of plastic are piled up.


some of the little gadgets I have designed for my projects: 
https://www.thingiverse.com/ve7it/designs


I also have used the overture filament... seems to do the trick!
I dont use the hot plate cover.. I used to print on the glass bed, but 
recently I have been using 2" wide blue painters tape on the bed as it 
does tend to grip the objects well and can be replaced if it gets 
damaged when prying off a part. It leaves a nice texture on the bottom 
of the part.


The biggest challenge in getting a print to work is getting the first 
layer printed and stuck to the base material. Mostly this involves
getting the bed height adjusted properly so the first layer sticks 
evenly. (bed leveling and height adjustment). There are lots of software 
adjustments in cura, but if you select a PLA profile, the defaults will 
be close to getting you a good print youtube is quite helpful if you 
run into issues.


Have fun

cheers
Lawrence
Nanoose Bay BC, Canada


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 14:52:21 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Friday 29 May 2020 14:20:58 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:
> > > I've dl'd that sprocket file, now what do I do with it to make a
> > > printable .stl? _Unpack it, see openscad mentioned, install
> > > openscad and friends, explore. For single sheeve, looks great. 
> > > Obviously will need to figure out how to do hubless & bolt 2
> > > together as central idler over a pair of skate bearings.  Looks as
> > > if it should work if the printer does its job.
> >
> > I believe you need to  render the part, then export the .stl. That
> > file is pretty well documented and I suppose after a lot of the
> > “explore” piece, a guy could get fluent in that language and coax it
> > to build ideas. Me, The biggest thing I’ve done is modify this file
> > to create a custom belt profile for a replacement pulley in a sewing
> > machine. This company went with a belt that looks like a HD profile
> > but with a 0.2” pitch...
> >
> > > Probably watching paint dry fun. :-) A potential problem, possibly
> > > fixable by putting the grub screws at 180 degrees, is the double
> > > d-flat on the worm shaft unless theres an option to do that to a
> > > round hole.
> >
> > I used a pair of screws at 180 degrees to keep the pulley from
> > flexing sideways too much when it’s clamped.
>
> Those flats are big enough that one could use 4 screws per side, and
> get a really rigid mount. Getting 2 axially aligned in one test render
> I did, didn't work. It apparently put both nuts in the same physical
> space. You can do that in video, but steel doesn't work that way. ;-)
>
> I'm assuming that the .stl to motion driver is included, but I see in
> one of the later videos he is touting a new case for an r-pi4, and
> just today, the r-pi folks have announced an r-pi4 with 8GB of dram at
> $75 bucks. I'm running that Sheldon very nicely with a 2GB rpi4 and an
> armhf kernel built for preempt-rt. That will obviously need a 64 bit
> kernel to use that much dram. Whats in it now for an .stl  rendering
> engine?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

And I just heard a vehicle stop and when I got to the front door, there 
was a box with an amazon label on it, with two spools of pla and a bag 
of spare nozzles in it.  So its starting to trickle in. Surprise, each 
spool of pla includes a new hot plate cover.  Overture brand.  Do they 
all include that?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 14:20:58 Thaddeus Waldner wrote:

> > I've dl'd that sprocket file, now what do I do with it to make a
> > printable .stl? _Unpack it, see openscad mentioned, install openscad
> > and friends, explore. For single sheeve, looks great.  Obviously
> > will need to figure out how to do hubless & bolt 2 together as
> > central idler over a pair of skate bearings.  Looks as if it should
> > work if the printer does its job.
>
> I believe you need to  render the part, then export the .stl. That
> file is pretty well documented and I suppose after a lot of the
> “explore” piece, a guy could get fluent in that language and coax it
> to build ideas. Me, The biggest thing I’ve done is modify this file to
> create a custom belt profile for a replacement pulley in a sewing
> machine. This company went with a belt that looks like a HD profile
> but with a 0.2” pitch...
>
> > Probably watching paint dry fun. :-) A potential problem, possibly
> > fixable by putting the grub screws at 180 degrees, is the double
> > d-flat on the worm shaft unless theres an option to do that to a
> > round hole.
>
> I used a pair of screws at 180 degrees to keep the pulley from flexing
> sideways too much when it’s clamped.
>
Those flats are big enough that one could use 4 screws per side, and get 
a really rigid mount. Getting 2 axially aligned in one test render I 
did, didn't work. It apparently put both nuts in the same physical 
space. You can do that in video, but steel doesn't work that way. ;-)

I'm assuming that the .stl to motion driver is included, but I see in one 
of the later videos he is touting a new case for an r-pi4, and just 
today, the r-pi folks have announced an r-pi4 with 8GB of dram at $75 
bucks. I'm running that Sheldon very nicely with a 2GB rpi4 and an armhf 
kernel built for preempt-rt. That will obviously need a 64 bit kernel to 
use that much dram. Whats in it now for an .stl  rendering engine?

Thanks.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Thaddeus Waldner]

> I've dl'd that sprocket file, now what do I do with it to make a 
> printable .stl? _Unpack it, see openscad mentioned, install openscad and 
> friends, explore. For single sheeve, looks great.  Obviously will need 
> to figure out how to do hubless & bolt 2 together as central idler over 
> a pair of skate bearings.  Looks as if it should work if the printer 
> does its job.

I believe you need to  render the part, then export the .stl. That file is 
pretty well documented and I suppose after a lot of the “explore” piece, a guy 
could get fluent in that language and coax it to build ideas. Me, The biggest 
thing I’ve done is modify this file to create a custom belt profile for a 
replacement pulley in a sewing machine. This company went with a belt that 
looks like a HD profile but with a 0.2” pitch...

> 
> Probably watching paint dry fun. :-) A potential problem, possibly 
> fixable by putting the grub screws at 180 degrees, is the double d-flat 
> on the worm shaft unless theres an option to do that to a round hole.

I used a pair of screws at 180 degrees to keep the pulley from flexing sideways 
too much when it’s clamped.



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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

The only large mass that moves is the table and only in the Y direction.
The extruder moves in the X direction but weighs nearly nothing.  The Z
direction moves about 0.2 mm every few minutes   So if there is any
movement it is near the base near the table.  There is not much mass to
shake the vertical beams

But the reason I bolted the printer to the workbench is to keep the
alignment stable.  Once getting the bed level, moving the printer would
un-level it.  The screws prevents me from moving the printer with my hands.
  If the workbench were a ground granite slab then I guess I would not care
but it is wood and not close to flat.   Guy wires would not help.  What I
cared about was the base warping and changing shape.  You can not pick up a
printer and move it and expect not to have to re-align it.   So I bolted it
down and now it is more stable and will keep alignment for days at a time.

What happens is that a part gets stuck to the build plate and some force is
needed to remove it.   The force applied by my fingers (or a plastic mallet
and plastic putty knife) and moves the printer.   Yes I have to resort to
the mallet frequently.  It is the least-bad option.  I'd rather need to pry
the part off the table then to have it come loose half way though the
print.  But if you use any force you move the printer.   Some people solve
this differently.   Long learning process and then you tend to stick with
whatever works.



On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:55 AM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Friday 29 May 2020 12:20:39 Chris Albertson wrote:
>
> > The Ender printers are well thought out and lack most of the dumb
> > problems of older Prusia clone printers.   But still, there are cables
> > that attach moving to non-moving parts and after flexing 20 times a
> > minute for years will break.  The printer is open source and there
> > are forums if problems come up.
> >
> > The first thing most new 3D printer owners print are upgrades for
> > their new printer.
>
> 1; Usually these are a filament guide to feed the
> > filament over sharp edges and some braces to make the printer
> > structure more rigid,
> 2; link to fora or where ever this stuff can be downloaded as .stl files?
> > housing for the electronics, cable clamps, and
> > hold-down clamps so the printer can be screwed to a workbench.
>
> Does it shake rattle and roll that badly that it needs the mass of a well
> built workbench to do _good_ work? Seems to me 4 guy wires with
> turnbuckle tensioners, two from each end of the top frame rail should
> brace it adequately.
>
> > The
> > on-line groups advised me that my A6 printer had a problem were a
> > small connector was used for a big current and would melt and catch
> > fire.   But they kept re-posting this long after the manufacturer
> > fixed this problem.   That is what happens with even this group.   We
> > re-post what we read years ago.
> >
> All of which serves to edycate the neucomer. Speeling mysteaks expected.
>
> > The printer is as complex as a CNC mill and takes a while before you
> > can learn to use it.  There is a long software workflow too from an
> > idea in your head to finished parts and unlike a mill, there is no
> > option to turn the handwheels manually.
>
> Thats probably my biggest concern as this will truly be the first time I
> have trusted a code generator to do what I want. I have up till now,
> either modified gcode to do what I want, or written it myself.
>
> Sometimes with a lot of help, you know who you are, and many thanks for
> that.  I owe many of you a hand cooler if we ever meet in person!
>
> > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 11:56 PM Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users <
> >
> > emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> > > I've never noticed any smell from PLA filament. ABS would definitely
> > > smell just like cutting ABS with high speed tools that melt it some.
> > > The GRBL, Marlin and other 3D printer firmwares have the ability to
> > > monitor things and shut everything down if a fire potential
> > > situation happens. Some printers have had a bit of an issue where
> > > the manufacturer chose to not enable those features, then after a
> > > few incidents either the users or the manufacturer released updated
> > > firmware with the features enabled. Google 3d printer fire to find
> > > various ways some have lit up, and things to look for to ensure
> > > yours won't.
> > > Aside from the firmware issues, common causes of flammen tend to be
> > > wires to the hot end or heated bed rubbing and wearing through
> > > insulation, or parts for the bed mounting being sharp and cutting
> > > into the circuitry. At least one case was the hot end heater fell
> > > out of the nozzle block and the printer was one with runaway heat
> > > monitoring disabled. Since the thermistor wasn't reading the heat,
> > > the printer kept cranking up the juice to the heater. Basically an
> > > if expected temp output != commanded temp input then something's
> > > wrong so turn off. The one with the 

Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 12:20:39 Chris Albertson wrote:

> The Ender printers are well thought out and lack most of the dumb
> problems of older Prusia clone printers.   But still, there are cables
> that attach moving to non-moving parts and after flexing 20 times a
> minute for years will break.  The printer is open source and there
> are forums if problems come up.
>
> The first thing most new 3D printer owners print are upgrades for
> their new printer.

1; Usually these are a filament guide to feed the 
> filament over sharp edges and some braces to make the printer
> structure more rigid,
2; link to fora or where ever this stuff can be downloaded as .stl files?
> housing for the electronics, cable clamps, and 
> hold-down clamps so the printer can be screwed to a workbench.

Does it shake rattle and roll that badly that it needs the mass of a well 
built workbench to do _good_ work? Seems to me 4 guy wires with 
turnbuckle tensioners, two from each end of the top frame rail should 
brace it adequately.

> The 
> on-line groups advised me that my A6 printer had a problem were a
> small connector was used for a big current and would melt and catch
> fire.   But they kept re-posting this long after the manufacturer
> fixed this problem.   That is what happens with even this group.   We
> re-post what we read years ago.
>
All of which serves to edycate the neucomer. Speeling mysteaks expected.

> The printer is as complex as a CNC mill and takes a while before you
> can learn to use it.  There is a long software workflow too from an
> idea in your head to finished parts and unlike a mill, there is no
> option to turn the handwheels manually.

Thats probably my biggest concern as this will truly be the first time I 
have trusted a code generator to do what I want. I have up till now, 
either modified gcode to do what I want, or written it myself.  

Sometimes with a lot of help, you know who you are, and many thanks for 
that.  I owe many of you a hand cooler if we ever meet in person!

> On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 11:56 PM Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users <
>
> emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:
> > I've never noticed any smell from PLA filament. ABS would definitely
> > smell just like cutting ABS with high speed tools that melt it some.
> > The GRBL, Marlin and other 3D printer firmwares have the ability to
> > monitor things and shut everything down if a fire potential
> > situation happens. Some printers have had a bit of an issue where
> > the manufacturer chose to not enable those features, then after a
> > few incidents either the users or the manufacturer released updated
> > firmware with the features enabled. Google 3d printer fire to find
> > various ways some have lit up, and things to look for to ensure
> > yours won't.
> > Aside from the firmware issues, common causes of flammen tend to be
> > wires to the hot end or heated bed rubbing and wearing through
> > insulation, or parts for the bed mounting being sharp and cutting
> > into the circuitry. At least one case was the hot end heater fell
> > out of the nozzle block and the printer was one with runaway heat
> > monitoring disabled. Since the thermistor wasn't reading the heat,
> > the printer kept cranking up the juice to the heater. Basically an
> > if expected temp output != commanded temp input then something's
> > wrong so turn off. The one with the bed mounting issue was one of
> > those lower cost Prusa copies. The fix was simply four fiber
> > washers, before the metal washers cut through the insulation coating
> > on the underside of the bed plate.
> > You'll want to make sure the wires to the heated bed are secured so
> > they don't flex where they're soldered. PITA to discover that when
> > one breaks loose then you have to take things apart, and rig up
> > proper securing for the wires.
> >
> > On Thursday, May 28, 2020, 8:04:15 PM MDT, Gene Heskett <
> > ghesk...@shentel.net> wrote:
> > For Dee, whose COPD is getting close to the end, not tolerable then,
> > so I may as well put it in the shed and build a box around it.
> >
> > Does it need a fire extinguisher when doing lights out stuff at
> > 3AM?.
> >
> > Thanks Andy.
> >
> > Cheers, Gene Heskett
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

The Ender printers are well thought out and lack most of the dumb problems
of older Prusia clone printers.   But still, there are cables that attach
moving to non-moving parts and after flexing 20 times a minute for years
will break.  The printer is open source and there are forums if
problems come up.

The first thing most new 3D printer owners print are upgrades for their new
printer.  Usually these are a filament guide to feed the filament over
sharp edges and some braces to make the printer structure more rigid,
housing for the electronics, cable clamps, and hold-down clamps so the
printer can be screwed to a workbench.  The on-line groups advised me that
my A6 printer had a problem were a small connector was used for a big
current and would melt and catch fire.   But they kept re-posting this long
after the manufacturer fixed this problem.   That is what happens with even
this group.   We re-post what we read years ago.

The printer is as complex as a CNC mill and takes a while before you can
learn to use it.  There is a long software workflow too from an idea in
your head to finished parts and unlike a mill, there is no option to turn
the handwheels manually.

On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 11:56 PM Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users <
emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:

> I've never noticed any smell from PLA filament. ABS would definitely smell
> just like cutting ABS with high speed tools that melt it some.
> The GRBL, Marlin and other 3D printer firmwares have the ability to
> monitor things and shut everything down if a fire potential situation
> happens. Some printers have had a bit of an issue where the manufacturer
> chose to not enable those features, then after a few incidents either the
> users or the manufacturer released updated firmware with the features
> enabled. Google 3d printer fire to find various ways some have lit up, and
> things to look for to ensure yours won't.
> Aside from the firmware issues, common causes of flammen tend to be wires
> to the hot end or heated bed rubbing and wearing through insulation, or
> parts for the bed mounting being sharp and cutting into the circuitry. At
> least one case was the hot end heater fell out of the nozzle block and the
> printer was one with runaway heat monitoring disabled. Since the thermistor
> wasn't reading the heat, the printer kept cranking up the juice to the
> heater. Basically an if expected temp output != commanded temp input then
> something's wrong so turn off. The one with the bed mounting issue was one
> of those lower cost Prusa copies. The fix was simply four fiber washers,
> before the metal washers cut through the insulation coating on the
> underside of the bed plate.
> You'll want to make sure the wires to the heated bed are secured so they
> don't flex where they're soldered. PITA to discover that when one breaks
> loose then you have to take things apart, and rig up proper securing for
> the wires.
>
> On Thursday, May 28, 2020, 8:04:15 PM MDT, Gene Heskett <
> ghesk...@shentel.net> wrote:
> For Dee, whose COPD is getting close to the end, not tolerable then, so I
> may as well put it in the shed and build a box around it.
>
> Does it need a fire extinguisher when doing lights out stuff at 3AM?.
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 08:39:26 andy pugh wrote:

> On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 12:51, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> I'll check that as I'm assembling it.  Otherwise the fire risk and
>
> > potential odor would seem to be tolerable, at least for a test run
> > for effect.
>
> Clearly the test run needs to be something for her...

A new canulla for her oxygen hose? Thats the most important thing in her 
life ATM.

I'd druther make a sprocket for a 1st test pass as I have a bag of those 
canulla's already, made out of much more comfortably flexible stuff than 
pla.

I've dl'd that sprocket file, now what do I do with it to make a 
printable .stl? _Unpack it, see openscad mentioned, install openscad and 
friends, explore. For single sheeve, looks great.  Obviously will need 
to figure out how to do hubless & bolt 2 together as central idler over 
a pair of skate bearings.  Looks as if it should work if the printer 
does its job.

Probably watching paint dry fun. :-) A potential problem, possibly 
fixable by putting the grub screws at 180 degrees, is the double d-flat 
on the worm shaft unless theres an option to do that to a round hole.
Interesting problem, perhaps solvable with a modified to do a doubled 
d-flat version of the code Sam is having so much fun with...  Sam?

Thanks all.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 12:51, Gene Heskett  wrote:

I'll check that as I'm assembling it.  Otherwise the fire risk and
> potential odor would seem to be tolerable, at least for a test run for
> effect.


Clearly the test run needs to be something for her...

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 29 May 2020 02:53:55 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> I've never noticed any smell from PLA filament. ABS would definitely
> smell just like cutting ABS with high speed tools that melt it some.
> The GRBL, Marlin and other 3D printer firmwares have the ability to
> monitor things and shut everything down if a fire potential situation
> happens. Some printers have had a bit of an issue where the
> manufacturer chose to not enable those features, then after a few
> incidents either the users or the manufacturer released updated
> firmware with the features enabled. Google 3d printer fire to find
> various ways some have lit up, and things to look for to ensure yours
> won't. Aside from the firmware issues, common causes of flammen tend
> to be wires to the hot end or heated bed rubbing and wearing through
> insulation, or parts for the bed mounting being sharp and cutting into
> the circuitry. At least one case was the hot end heater fell out of
> the nozzle block and the printer was one with runaway heat monitoring
> disabled. Since the thermistor wasn't reading the heat, the printer
> kept cranking up the juice to the heater. Basically an if expected
> temp output != commanded temp input then something's wrong so turn
> off. The one with the bed mounting issue was one of those lower cost
> Prusa copies. The fix was simply four fiber washers, before the metal
> washers cut through the insulation coating on the underside of the bed
> plate. You'll want to make sure the wires to the heated bed are
> secured so they don't flex where they're soldered. PITA to discover
> that when one breaks loose then you have to take things apart, and rig
> up proper securing for the wires.
>
I'll check that as I'm assembling it.  Otherwise the fire risk and 
potential odor would seem to be tolerable, at least for a test run for 
effect.

I assume it will accept an .stl file over a cat5 cable?

> On Thursday, May 28, 2020, 8:04:15 PM MDT, Gene Heskett
>  wrote: For Dee, whose COPD is getting close to
> the end, not tolerable then, so I may as well put it in the shed and
> build a box around it.
>
> Does it need a fire extinguisher when doing lights out stuff at 3AM?.
>
> Thanks Andy.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 28 May 2020 23:01:24 Chris Albertson wrote:

> PLA plastic made from plant oil, not petroleum.  It smells a little
> like popcorn.  The odor is a little less than microwave popcorn.  Most
> people find it is not objectionable. They claim PLA is
> biodegradable but I've yet to see any degradation when left outdoors.

That would likely be tolerable, although I might have to deepen my stock 
of Orville's finest. :) I do keep a carton of it in the larder.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

I've never noticed any smell from PLA filament. ABS would definitely smell just 
like cutting ABS with high speed tools that melt it some. 
The GRBL, Marlin and other 3D printer firmwares have the ability to monitor 
things and shut everything down if a fire potential situation happens. Some 
printers have had a bit of an issue where the manufacturer chose to not enable 
those features, then after a few incidents either the users or the manufacturer 
released updated firmware with the features enabled. Google 3d printer fire to 
find various ways some have lit up, and things to look for to ensure yours 
won't.
Aside from the firmware issues, common causes of flammen tend to be wires to 
the hot end or heated bed rubbing and wearing through insulation, or parts for 
the bed mounting being sharp and cutting into the circuitry. At least one case 
was the hot end heater fell out of the nozzle block and the printer was one 
with runaway heat monitoring disabled. Since the thermistor wasn't reading the 
heat, the printer kept cranking up the juice to the heater. Basically an if 
expected temp output != commanded temp input then something's wrong so turn 
off. The one with the bed mounting issue was one of those lower cost Prusa 
copies. The fix was simply four fiber washers, before the metal washers cut 
through the insulation coating on the underside of the bed plate.
You'll want to make sure the wires to the heated bed are secured so they don't 
flex where they're soldered. PITA to discover that when one breaks loose then 
you have to take things apart, and rig up proper securing for the wires.

On Thursday, May 28, 2020, 8:04:15 PM MDT, Gene Heskett 
 wrote: 
For Dee, whose COPD is getting close to the end, not tolerable then, so I 
may as well put it in the shed and build a box around it.

Does it need a fire extinguisher when doing lights out stuff at 3AM?.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett  
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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

PLA plastic made from plant oil, not petroleum.  It smells a little like
popcorn.  The odor is a little less than microwave popcorn.  Most
people find it is not objectionable. They claim PLA is biodegradable
but I've yet to see any degradation when left outdoors.

On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 3:46 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

>
> One final Q, how much stink is there to running one of these?  I could
> put it in the empty front bedroom, but any great hot plastic stink would
> get me shut down. Pretty fast. I'd be out in the shop building, and
> building it a box before the night was very old.
>
>
-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 28 May 2020 21:01:42 andy pugh wrote:

> On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 23:46, Gene Heskett 
> wrote:
>
> One final Q, how much stink is there to running one of these
>
>
> Some but not a lot. Whether it is too much depends on perspective. I
> don't mind it at all.
>
> With the window open and the door shut it would be acceptable to
> anyone willing to be accepting.
> ie, my ex-girlfriend would never have stood for it, beause anything
> that even slightly changed her experience of life was unacceptable to
> her. But I have heard that they are not all like that. (I haven't
> tried living with anyone else since then)

For Dee, whose COPD is getting close to the end, not tolerable then, so I 
may as well put it in the shed and build a box around it.

Does it need a fire extinguisher when doing lights out stuff at 3AM?.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 23:46, Gene Heskett  wrote:

One final Q, how much stink is there to running one of these
>

Some but not a lot. Whether it is too much depends on perspective. I don't
mind it at all.

With the window open and the door shut it would be acceptable to anyone
willing to be accepting.
ie, my ex-girlfriend would never have stood for it, beause anything that
even slightly changed her experience of life was unacceptable to her. But I
have heard that they are not all like that. (I haven't tried living with
anyone else since then)


-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 28 May 2020 16:59:17 Chris Albertson wrote:

> > The pulleys coaxial with the rotation is a neat idea.
> > But how much gear-own do you need?
> >
> > I ran my BS0 with direct drive and a tiny little servo (1Nm?) and it
> > was pretty much OK.
>
> You tested the BS0 empty?  What if there is a casting mounted in it so
> as to present an eccentric load?  Also what if the machine operation
> places a force on the part that does not intersect the rotation axis? 
>  The motor has to hold the part rigid while it is being milled.  OK I
> suspect the worm is not back drivable but I can imagine me wanting to
> make helix gear by turning the part while the cutter is cutting.   
> The motor needs to move the part which could be unbalanced while it is
> being cut.
>
> I'm  some months behind Gene on this project.I'm looking to buy a
> closed loop stepper for z-axis then place a stepper on a rotary table
> to create A-axis.  I want to cut metal helical gears.
>
> > --

One final Q, how much stink is there to running one of these?  I could 
put it in the empty front bedroom, but any great hot plastic stink would 
get me shut down. Pretty fast. I'd be out in the shop building, and 
building it a box before the night was very old.

> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 22:02, Chris Albertson  wrote:

> You tested the BS0 empty?  What if there is a casting mounted in it so as
> to present an eccentric load?  Also what if the machine operation places a
> force on the part that does not intersect the rotation axis?   The motor
> has to hold the part rigid while it is being milled.  OK I suspect the worm
> is not back drivable

I regularly drive a vehicle with a worm-drive rear axle. They are
back-drivable and they do not lock up under load.

But the motor resists being turned just as much as it exerts force to turn.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

>
> The pulleys coaxial with the rotation is a neat idea.
> But how much gear-own do you need?
>
> I ran my BS0 with direct drive and a tiny little servo (1Nm?) and it
> was pretty much OK.
>

You tested the BS0 empty?  What if there is a casting mounted in it so as
to present an eccentric load?  Also what if the machine operation places a
force on the part that does not intersect the rotation axis?   The motor
has to hold the part rigid while it is being milled.  OK I suspect the worm
is not back drivable but I can imagine me wanting to make helix gear by
turning the part while the cutter is cutting.The motor needs to move
the part which could be unbalanced while it is being cut.

I'm  some months behind Gene on this project.I'm looking to buy a
closed loop stepper for z-axis then place a stepper on a rotary table to
create A-axis.  I want to cut metal helical gears.

>
>
> --

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Chris Albertson]

While waiting from printer and parts, the best thing to do is to make a 3D
model of the BS1 unit.  Then as you collect 3D models of the pulleys and
other parts put them on the BS1 unit where they go.  This allows you to
check clearnces and even thingd like "Can I get an Allen key to the set
screw?"

It also allows you to do things like post the link I have below and ask the
experts "Is this design going to work?"

Building the entire assembly in CAD first, before you make the first part
really does speed things up.  The unit is 1/2 complete and parts mate and
screw holes line up  Some parts are printed plastic, some are machined.
The unit bolts to the firewall of a two person ride-on toy car.  Here is an
example but with some covers removed so I can see inside.
https://a360.co/2AekUHF

So I can ask questions like "see the part above. Will it work for driving
at 7 MPH with a 150 pound GVW on dirt road.  No, don't answer, testing will
tell.





> > You might find that 15T on the motor shaft does not leave you enough
> > hub to figure out a mounting method.
>
> I hadn't considered that, thanks Andy. And I just measured the thickness
> of the worm flange, almost 11mm.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California

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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[Gene Heskett]

On Thursday 28 May 2020 13:55:28 andy pugh wrote:

> On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 17:17, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > 5; using new printer, make a 2 step pulley with recesses for a pair
> > of ball bearings to turn on #4. Tooth count of larger step of this
> > pulley so it clears the mills table,(and possibly the worm shaft)
> > but will need an offset outward to clear flange of worm shaft, about
> > 5/16" IIRC. Motor mount offset to align belt.
>
> The pulleys coaxial with the rotation is a neat idea.
> But how much gear-own do you need?
>
> I ran my BS0 with direct drive and a tiny little servo (1Nm?) and it
> was pretty much OK.

But did you move it while cutting, like a hypoid gear might need? Worms 
want to lock up under load.
>
> You might find that 15T on the motor shaft does not leave you enough
> hub to figure out a mounting method.

I hadn't considered that, thanks Andy. And I just measured the thickness 
of the worm flange, almost 11mm.  And the edge of that flange may 
actually interfere with a 3/8" bolt in the center dimple, so I may have 
to remove it again and put a scallop in its side. Given the forces 
involved when cutting and moving at the same time, I'm not really comfy 
with a smaller bolt and no bracing flange. Could lead to putting it 
together, mark it to remove interferring material, then reassembling in 
the correct order. Which is worm carrier last.

Thanks again.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] On Motorizing a BS-1 clone

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 28 May 2020 at 17:17, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> 5; using new printer, make a 2 step pulley with recesses for a pair of
> ball bearings to turn on #4. Tooth count of larger step of this pulley
> so it clears the mills table,(and possibly the worm shaft) but will need
> an offset outward to clear flange of worm shaft, about 5/16" IIRC. Motor
> mount offset to align belt.

The pulleys coaxial with the rotation is a neat idea.
But how much gear-own do you need?

I ran my BS0 with direct drive and a tiny little servo (1Nm?) and it
was pretty much OK.

You might find that 15T on the motor shaft does not leave you enough
hub to figure out a mounting method.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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