Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 05/22/2012 02:21 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 22 May 2012 07:53, Rafael Skodlarra...@linwin.com wrote: Using Cat-5 was a surprise to me as it's a bit stiff unless each wire is made of even smaller wires, not common in general use. There is solid stranded for fixed installation and stranded for patch cables. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/cables-wires/network-communication-cable/cat5e-cable/?searchTerm=cat5 The stranded would be very much preferred. There are many other types of multicore cable, it is just that CAT5 is readily available. There are different kinds of stranded CAT-5 from my experience. However, stranded cat-5/6 were not designed for bending over and over thousands of times IMO. Connecting laptops is one thing, wiring sensors and electronics on moving mechanisms on CNC machines is another. I've come across multi-wire cables with magic white powder inside which made bending much smoother. Insulated wires inside main cable jacket were sliding along each other easily. I did not pay attention to that at that time but now I suspect I know what that was all about. -- Rafael -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
2012/5/22 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 04:36:53 PM Jon Elson did opine: For one thing, shielded Cat-5 cable is rare. In fact, I have never seen such a beast myself Jon. I used them in my last machine - shielded multistrand CAT5 cable. The price was much higher than normal CAT5 cable... I have a leftover at home. If I remember, I could try to find that little printing on the outer insulation for exact code by the end of the week. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 5/23/2012 2:00 AM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: On 05/22/2012 02:21 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 22 May 2012 07:53, Rafael Skodlarra...@linwin.com wrote: Using Cat-5 was a surprise to me as it's a bit stiff unless each wire is made of even smaller wires, not common in general use. There is solid stranded for fixed installation and stranded for patch cables. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/cables-wires/network-communication-cable/cat5e-cable/?searchTerm=cat5 The stranded would be very much preferred. There are many other types of multicore cable, it is just that CAT5 is readily available. There are different kinds of stranded CAT-5 from my experience. However, stranded cat-5/6 were not designed for bending over and over thousands of times IMO. Connecting laptops is one thing, wiring sensors and electronics on moving mechanisms on CNC machines is another. I've come across multi-wire cables with magic white powder inside which made bending much smoother. Insulated wires inside main cable jacket were sliding along each other easily. I did not pay attention to that at that time but now I suspect I know what that was all about. True, but they all wear out from cycling eventually. I have seen machine tool servo cables that have worn right through the outer cable jackets and through the shielding - all this will running inside an energy chain/cable track. I worked on a Fanuc equipped lathe that kept blowing servo drives. Looking at the cables in the chain - you could see copper! If you are doing a hobby machine that you run infrequently, you might get years of wear out of them before they go. If this is a production machine that you make money on - go for the better cables. I must admit that I have a strand of regular Cat 5 solid cable that runs through the air between my house and garage/shop about 20 feet.. It was meant to be a temporary fix - 10+ years ago. It has survived ice, snow, wind, some tree branches bouncing on it and it flexes whenever the wind blows. It still works which amazes me. I'd replace it except that it still works. :-) Dave -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 23.05.12 09:55, Dave wrote: I must admit that I have a strand of regular Cat 5 solid cable that runs through the air between my house and garage/shop about 20 feet.. It was meant to be a temporary fix - 10+ years ago. It has survived ice, snow, wind, some tree branches bouncing on it and it flexes whenever the wind blows. It still works which amazes me. I'd replace it except that it still works. :-) It could be quite a wait. The aerial telephone line to the farmhouse, until undergrounded, was a twisted pair of single strand conductors, which hung there for nigh on half a century. Even my experiments as a kid, lying on the roof and plucking heavily a metre out, to send physical waves out, and watch them reflect with a TWANG from the first post, about 50 metres out, didn't do it in. But yes, copper work hardens, so it's surprising how long it sometimes lasts. Erik -- Women are wiser than men because they know less and understand more. - Stephens -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 05/21/2012 09:15 AM, Jon Elson wrote: Rafael Skodlar wrote: On 05/20/2012 12:12 PM, Dave wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. I'm well familiar with flexing and shielding issues in general since early HP plotter days. I was hoping to get a simple answer based on real life experience, get this or that cable with x number of shielded and stranded or twisted wires ;-) That's why I mentioned size as that would give one an idea of motor sizes and other requirements. Is it better to have one cable with x number of wires to take care of all needs or a number of smaller cables (y) with x/y wires? With non-filtered motor drives, it is pretty important to NOT put encoder or other signal-level wires in the same cable as the motor wires. I usually separate encoder, home/limit sensors and motors on 3 cables per axis, even though my motor drives ARE filtered. A plain quadrature encoder needs 4 wires, if it has index then 5. If differential, then 6 or 8 wires. If brushless motors are used, those usually need Hall sensors, add 4 more wires. Stepper motors need a minimum of 4 wires, brush servos need 2 plus maybe a safety ground, brushless would need 3 plus ground. You can check the catalogs for the number and size of the wire strands. The more fine wires there are, the better the cable will handle flexing. The good stuff has #36 AWG or finer strands, thinner than hair. Jon Thank you very much for detailed advice to all of you that responded to my question. I received enough material to spend a few evenings doing my homework. It's much easier to start knowing what others have tried and what works in different circumstances. Using Cat-5 was a surprise to me as it's a bit stiff unless each wire is made of even smaller wires, not common in general use. -- Rafael -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 22 May 2012 07:53, Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com wrote: Using Cat-5 was a surprise to me as it's a bit stiff unless each wire is made of even smaller wires, not common in general use. There is solid stranded for fixed installation and stranded for patch cables. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/cables-wires/network-communication-cable/cat5e-cable/?searchTerm=cat5 The stranded would be very much preferred. There are many other types of multicore cable, it is just that CAT5 is readily available. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 05:25:01 AM Rafael Skodlar did opine: On 05/21/2012 09:15 AM, Jon Elson wrote: Rafael Skodlar wrote: On 05/20/2012 12:12 PM, Dave wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. I'm well familiar with flexing and shielding issues in general since early HP plotter days. I was hoping to get a simple answer based on real life experience, get this or that cable with x number of shielded and stranded or twisted wires ;-) That's why I mentioned size as that would give one an idea of motor sizes and other requirements. Is it better to have one cable with x number of wires to take care of all needs or a number of smaller cables (y) with x/y wires? With non-filtered motor drives, it is pretty important to NOT put encoder or other signal-level wires in the same cable as the motor wires. I usually separate encoder, home/limit sensors and motors on 3 cables per axis, even though my motor drives ARE filtered. A plain quadrature encoder needs 4 wires, if it has index then 5. If differential, then 6 or 8 wires. If brushless motors are used, those usually need Hall sensors, add 4 more wires. Stepper motors need a minimum of 4 wires, brush servos need 2 plus maybe a safety ground, brushless would need 3 plus ground. You can check the catalogs for the number and size of the wire strands. The more fine wires there are, the better the cable will handle flexing. The good stuff has #36 AWG or finer strands, thinner than hair. Jon Thank you very much for detailed advice to all of you that responded to my question. I received enough material to spend a few evenings doing my homework. It's much easier to start knowing what others have tried and what works in different circumstances. Using Cat-5 was a surprise to me as it's a bit stiff unless each wire is made of even smaller wires, not common in general use. Solid single strand cat5 can be amazingly durable. I have have a piece about 35 feet long, suspended by black tie-wraps from an eyelet on each end, from the back corner of my back porch roof, to the apex of a 12x16 shed I have some of my machines in, since about 2001. Blowing in the wind, which 2 years ago this June 23th, peaked at 112 mph and took down 3 mature pine trees and part of my houses roof, about $10K State Farm wrote a check for, but that piece of cat5 hasn't dropped a byte. When I put it up, I fully expected to have to replace it annually so I am pleasantly surprised. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Dyslexics have more fnu. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
Rafael Skodlar wrote: Thank you very much for detailed advice to all of you that responded to my question. I received enough material to spend a few evenings doing my homework. It's much easier to start knowing what others have tried and what works in different circumstances. Using Cat-5 was a surprise to me as it's a bit stiff unless each wire is made of even smaller wires, not common in general use. There appear to be at least 3 kinds of Cat-5 cable. Solid wire is made for stringing in ceilings and walls, where it will never be moved. Some cables made for use from wall jack to computer, etc. have 7 strands, some for more frequent flexing have something like 31 strands. But, I really don't recommend Cat-5 at all for encoders. For one thing, shielded Cat-5 cable is rare. Jon -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 5/22/2012 12:07 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Rafael Skodlar wrote: Thank you very much for detailed advice to all of you that responded to my question. I received enough material to spend a few evenings doing my homework. It's much easier to start knowing what others have tried and what works in different circumstances. Using Cat-5 was a surprise to me as it's a bit stiff unless each wire is made of even smaller wires, not common in general use. There appear to be at least 3 kinds of Cat-5 cable. Solid wire is made for stringing in ceilings and walls, where it will never be moved. Some cables made for use from wall jack to computer, etc. have 7 strands, some for more frequent flexing have something like 31 strands. But, I really don't recommend Cat-5 at all for encoders. For one thing, shielded Cat-5 cable is rare. Jon For one thing, shielded Cat-5 cable is rare. I see it all of the time. Fry Electronics had it on the shelf in Indianapolis. $17 for 100 foot shielded patch cable. Pretty cheap. http://www.cablemax.com/productdetails1.cfm?sku=306423cats=99152 You can find it in bulk reels also. Dave -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 04:36:53 PM Jon Elson did opine: Rafael Skodlar wrote: Thank you very much for detailed advice to all of you that responded to my question. I received enough material to spend a few evenings doing my homework. It's much easier to start knowing what others have tried and what works in different circumstances. Using Cat-5 was a surprise to me as it's a bit stiff unless each wire is made of even smaller wires, not common in general use. There appear to be at least 3 kinds of Cat-5 cable. Solid wire is made for stringing in ceilings and walls, where it will never be moved. Some cables made for use from wall jack to computer, etc. have 7 strands, some for more frequent flexing have something like 31 strands. But, I really don't recommend Cat-5 at all for encoders. Only for encoders with differential outputs, and true differential inputs to the computer. For one thing, shielded Cat-5 cable is rare. In fact, I have never seen such a beast myself Jon. Jon -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Q: How was Thomas J. Watson buried? A: 9 edge down. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
2012/5/21 Steve Blackmore st...@pilotltd.net: CAT5 patch cables do break down with constant flexing - I've changed plenty of it :) Are CAT5 patch cables meant to be CAT5 cable with multi-strand core? -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On Monday, May 21, 2012 05:20:52 AM Rafael Skodlar did opine: On 05/20/2012 12:12 PM, Dave wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. Is it preferable to carry power and handful of control signals to the circuit on the gantry and preprocess some functions there or have everything wired into the central box? That would dictate the number of wires in the cable needed and what kind you need to buy. Would cable carrier from McMaster-Carr # 55835K432 be sufficient? Thanks, Figure out what cables you need to move back and forth and then choose the carrier. Jamming cables into a cable carrier is not a good idea. I'm well familiar with flexing and shielding issues in general since early HP plotter days. I was hoping to get a simple answer based on real life experience, get this or that cable with x number of shielded and stranded or twisted wires ;-) That's why I mentioned size as that would give one an idea of motor sizes and other requirements. Is it better to have one cable with x number of wires to take care of all needs or a number of smaller cables (y) with x/y wires? If you don't do some figuring before you know what you are going to carry, you will either have too much, or not enough space. Guessing usually doesn't work out nearly as well. Agree, and that's why I tried to see what others are doing on this issue as it seem to be poorly documented in general. I try to capture this from numerous pictures but wires seem to generate little interest in general. As an alternative supplier; Igus sells direct in the US. http://www.igus.com/default.asp?c=usL=en Dave Links are always encouraging. However, I'm still struggling with the variety of cables mentioned on Igus site: data cable, bus cable, servo cable, control cable. Lots of homework ahead I guess, and that's before the experiment can begin. Thanks guys, I use separate cables, with my smaller machines the biggest motors are 425 oz nema 23's. Clark Wire Cable in Chicago imports a lookalike of Belden's Star-Quad cable, intended for very low noise microphone wiring, in 24 gage, its 4 wires twisted, with a 98% shield braided on top of that. I used it in 1000' spools at the tv station. Several of them. http://www.clarkwire.com/cableMINK4.htm Ultra flexible, fairly limp, 50 feet or so in 25' pieces has followed me home over the years. I use it for all the 4 wire motors, and as encoder to C1G, but ran out and had to use some 4 wire shack ribbon for the lathes spindle control. But I don't have any of it in cable trackage. Despite that I haven't damaged any of it, ever. And 24 gage seems to be plenty, with one motor wired bipolar parallel at 4.2 amps working just fine on about 5 feet of it. It seems to hold up well, Vactra and Sunflower oil or ACE cutting oil have not seemed to have effected the jacket yet and some it it has been in service for almost a decade. Susan may have some in a heavier gage for higher current usages if you call ask. That cable, and her 7559 video cable I've used several miles of are the best cables I have dealt with as a BC engineer, far less 'fixing' required over time even when being drug around on the studios concrete floor for years. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene If you explain so clearly that nobody can misunderstand, somebody will. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On Sun, 20 May 2012 20:57:06 -0700 Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com wrote: On 05/20/2012 12:12 PM, Dave wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. Is it preferable to carry power and handful of control signals to the circuit on the gantry and preprocess some functions there or have everything wired into the central box? That would dictate the number of wires in the cable needed and what kind you need to buy. Would cable carrier from McMaster-Carr # 55835K432 be sufficient? Thanks, Figure out what cables you need to move back and forth and then choose the carrier. Jamming cables into a cable carrier is not a good idea. I'm well familiar with flexing and shielding issues in general since early HP plotter days. I was hoping to get a simple answer based on real life experience, get this or that cable with x number of shielded and stranded or twisted wires ;-) That's why I mentioned size as that would give one an idea of motor sizes and other requirements. Is it better to have one cable with x number of wires to take care of all needs or a number of smaller cables (y) with x/y wires? If you don't do some figuring before you know what you are going to carry, you will either have too much, or not enough space. Guessing usually doesn't work out nearly as well. Agree, and that's why I tried to see what others are doing on this issue as it seem to be poorly documented in general. I try to capture this from numerous pictures but wires seem to generate little interest in general. As an alternative supplier; Igus sells direct in the US. http://www.igus.com/default.asp?c=usL=en Dave Links are always encouraging. However, I'm still struggling with the variety of cables mentioned on Igus site: data cable, bus cable, servo cable, control cable. Lots of homework ahead I guess, and that's before the experiment can begin. Thanks guys, I've used shielded CAT5 with no problems for encoder cables. I usually buy 50' patch cables and cut them up. Seems to be the cheapest way to get there. SO in two conductor works well for servo power. I suppose it also comes in 4 conductor for 3 phase. Of course, there is no shielding. ;-( Dave -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 5/20/2012 11:57 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: On 05/20/2012 12:12 PM, Dave wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. Is it preferable to carry power and handful of control signals to the circuit on the gantry and preprocess some functions there or have everything wired into the central box? That would dictate the number of wires in the cable needed and what kind you need to buy. Would cable carrier from McMaster-Carr # 55835K432 be sufficient? Thanks, Figure out what cables you need to move back and forth and then choose the carrier. Jamming cables into a cable carrier is not a good idea. I'm well familiar with flexing and shielding issues in general since early HP plotter days. I was hoping to get a simple answer based on real life experience, get this or that cable with x number of shielded and stranded or twisted wires ;-) That's why I mentioned size as that would give one an idea of motor sizes and other requirements. Is it better to have one cable with x number of wires to take care of all needs or a number of smaller cables (y) with x/y wires? If you don't do some figuring before you know what you are going to carry, you will either have too much, or not enough space. Guessing usually doesn't work out nearly as well. Agree, and that's why I tried to see what others are doing on this issue as it seem to be poorly documented in general. I try to capture this from numerous pictures but wires seem to generate little interest in general. As an alternative supplier; Igus sells direct in the US. http://www.igus.com/default.asp?c=usL=en Dave Links are always encouraging. However, I'm still struggling with the variety of cables mentioned on Igus site: data cable, bus cable, servo cable, control cable. Lots of homework ahead I guess, and that's before the experiment can begin. Thanks guys, I tend to sketch things out on paper in order to maintain my sanity. Generally, motor power cables and encoder feedback cables are separate. If you buy a commercial brushless servo motor setup, they always (so far) come with a Servo power cable that is shielded, and an encoder cable that is also shielded. If you have a gantry machine, you will probably want limit switches and perhaps a home switch on the gantry slide. I would run another cable for that.So that is three cables - two of which need to be run all the way to the gantry motor location.The other motors, if they move, will also need an energy chain tied to them. It all depends on how your machine is designed. If you are just going to use your machine once a week or even a couple of times per week, I'd probably go cheap and try and use Cat 5 patch cables for your signal wires and perhaps your encoders (you can get shielded cat 5 flex cable). If you are going to make money off your machine on a frequent basis, buy the better cables as normal flex cable will eventually break. (Actually they all eventually break, but some last a lot longer than others) Dave -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
we have used stranded shielded cat 5 with good results. sam On Mon, 21 May 2012 08:12:55 -0700 dave dengv...@charter.net wrote: On Sun, 20 May 2012 20:57:06 -0700 Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com wrote: On 05/20/2012 12:12 PM, Dave wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. Is it preferable to carry power and handful of control signals to the circuit on the gantry and preprocess some functions there or have everything wired into the central box? That would dictate the number of wires in the cable needed and what kind you need to buy. Would cable carrier from McMaster-Carr # 55835K432 be sufficient? Thanks, Figure out what cables you need to move back and forth and then choose the carrier. Jamming cables into a cable carrier is not a good idea. I'm well familiar with flexing and shielding issues in general since early HP plotter days. I was hoping to get a simple answer based on real life experience, get this or that cable with x number of shielded and stranded or twisted wires ;-) That's why I mentioned size as that would give one an idea of motor sizes and other requirements. Is it better to have one cable with x number of wires to take care of all needs or a number of smaller cables (y) with x/y wires? If you don't do some figuring before you know what you are going to carry, you will either have too much, or not enough space. Guessing usually doesn't work out nearly as well. Agree, and that's why I tried to see what others are doing on this issue as it seem to be poorly documented in general. I try to capture this from numerous pictures but wires seem to generate little interest in general. As an alternative supplier; Igus sells direct in the US. http://www.igus.com/default.asp?c=usL=en Dave Links are always encouraging. However, I'm still struggling with the variety of cables mentioned on Igus site: data cable, bus cable, servo cable, control cable. Lots of homework ahead I guess, and that's before the experiment can begin. Thanks guys, I've used shielded CAT5 with no problems for encoder cables. I usually buy 50' patch cables and cut them up. Seems to be the cheapest way to get there. SO in two conductor works well for servo power. I suppose it also comes in 4 conductor for 3 phase. Of course, there is no shielding. ;-( Dave -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
Rafael Skodlar wrote: On 05/20/2012 12:12 PM, Dave wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. I'm well familiar with flexing and shielding issues in general since early HP plotter days. I was hoping to get a simple answer based on real life experience, get this or that cable with x number of shielded and stranded or twisted wires ;-) That's why I mentioned size as that would give one an idea of motor sizes and other requirements. Is it better to have one cable with x number of wires to take care of all needs or a number of smaller cables (y) with x/y wires? With non-filtered motor drives, it is pretty important to NOT put encoder or other signal-level wires in the same cable as the motor wires. I usually separate encoder, home/limit sensors and motors on 3 cables per axis, even though my motor drives ARE filtered. A plain quadrature encoder needs 4 wires, if it has index then 5. If differential, then 6 or 8 wires. If brushless motors are used, those usually need Hall sensors, add 4 more wires. Stepper motors need a minimum of 4 wires, brush servos need 2 plus maybe a safety ground, brushless would need 3 plus ground. You can check the catalogs for the number and size of the wire strands. The more fine wires there are, the better the cable will handle flexing. The good stuff has #36 AWG or finer strands, thinner than hair. Jon -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 20 May 2012 17:40, Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? The size of the machine is not the most relevant thing, though a bigger machine will might need bigger power cables to keep the losses down. You would typically size the power cables for the motor current. Data cables might simply be chosen for being conveniently available with the required number of cores. Sensors and switches generally get wired back to the control box, though there might be something to be said for keeping the motor drives near the motors. (There are even some very neat stepper drives that bolt onto the back of the motors) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. Is it preferable to carry power and handful of control signals to the circuit on the gantry and preprocess some functions there or have everything wired into the central box? That would dictate the number of wires in the cable needed and what kind you need to buy. Would cable carrier from McMaster-Carr # 55835K432 be sufficient? Thanks, Figure out what cables you need to move back and forth and then choose the carrier. Jamming cables into a cable carrier is not a good idea. If you don't do some figuring before you know what you are going to carry, you will either have too much, or not enough space. Guessing usually doesn't work out nearly as well. As an alternative supplier; Igus sells direct in the US. http://www.igus.com/default.asp?c=usL=en Dave -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
Note that data cables will need to be screened. I'm using twisted pair, (OK CAT5, because it was lying around) this is working for my home switches, but when I joined up the Z Y limit switches (I don't have enough inputs for one each) I could no longer turn the machine on. HAL scope revealed a pulse occurring on the limit signal as the motors powered up, which made LinuxCNC think a limit was active. Mike On 20 May 2012, at 20:12, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. Is it preferable to carry power and handful of control signals to the circuit on the gantry and preprocess some functions there or have everything wired into the central box? That would dictate the number of wires in the cable needed and what kind you need to buy. Would cable carrier from McMaster-Carr # 55835K432 be sufficient? Thanks, Figure out what cables you need to move back and forth and then choose the carrier. Jamming cables into a cable carrier is not a good idea. If you don't do some figuring before you know what you are going to carry, you will either have too much, or not enough space. Guessing usually doesn't work out nearly as well. As an alternative supplier; Igus sells direct in the US. http://www.igus.com/default.asp?c=usL=en Dave -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
andy pugh wrote: On 20 May 2012 17:40, Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? The size of the machine is not the most relevant thing, though a bigger machine will might need bigger power cables to keep the losses down. One of the things to always consider is the flexing of the cables. There are special cables made for high flex life, but they are pretty expensive. If you can use standard power cords for the motors (usually 3-conductor) and then get cables for the signals that also are made for a lot of flexing (like Cat-5 patch cables or something). Jon -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On Sun, 20 May 2012 15:09:06 -0500, you wrote: andy pugh wrote: On 20 May 2012 17:40, Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? The size of the machine is not the most relevant thing, though a bigger machine will might need bigger power cables to keep the losses down. One of the things to always consider is the flexing of the cables. There are special cables made for high flex life, but they are pretty expensive. Not expensive from Igus. CAT5 patch cables do break down with constant flexing - I've changed plenty of it :) Steve Blackmore -- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
On 05/20/2012 12:12 PM, Dave wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. Is it preferable to carry power and handful of control signals to the circuit on the gantry and preprocess some functions there or have everything wired into the central box? That would dictate the number of wires in the cable needed and what kind you need to buy. Would cable carrier from McMaster-Carr # 55835K432 be sufficient? Thanks, Figure out what cables you need to move back and forth and then choose the carrier. Jamming cables into a cable carrier is not a good idea. I'm well familiar with flexing and shielding issues in general since early HP plotter days. I was hoping to get a simple answer based on real life experience, get this or that cable with x number of shielded and stranded or twisted wires ;-) That's why I mentioned size as that would give one an idea of motor sizes and other requirements. Is it better to have one cable with x number of wires to take care of all needs or a number of smaller cables (y) with x/y wires? If you don't do some figuring before you know what you are going to carry, you will either have too much, or not enough space. Guessing usually doesn't work out nearly as well. Agree, and that's why I tried to see what others are doing on this issue as it seem to be poorly documented in general. I try to capture this from numerous pictures but wires seem to generate little interest in general. As an alternative supplier; Igus sells direct in the US. http://www.igus.com/default.asp?c=usL=en Dave Links are always encouraging. However, I'm still struggling with the variety of cables mentioned on Igus site: data cable, bus cable, servo cable, control cable. Lots of homework ahead I guess, and that's before the experiment can begin. Thanks guys, -- Rafael -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Power and data cables for CNC
Rafael The wires you need will depend on what motors you are using, the arrangement of limit/home switches and if encoders are being used. Once you know these things you can choose the cable. For example I have built a machine of similar size to yours. It's driven by three 3.1Nm steppers with no encoders. The steppers each need four wires and are driven at 4.5A so I choose 24/0.2 wire to carry this. I have two limit and one home switch per axis so I need six signal wires per axis. I could have combined the 0V line, the I would only need four wires, but felt this would limit my options. I have used CAT5 cable for this, but now find that I may have to replace this with shielded cable. Mike On 21 May 2012, at 04:57, Rafael Skodlar ra...@linwin.com wrote: On 05/20/2012 12:12 PM, Dave wrote: On 5/20/2012 12:40 PM, Rafael Skodlar wrote: I wonder what kind of power and data cables would you recommend for use in X-Y-Z CNC about 1.2mx1m size? Besides power, it's not clear to me how many data lines for sensors, encoders, motor control, etc. are needed in general. Is it preferable to carry power and handful of control signals to the circuit on the gantry and preprocess some functions there or have everything wired into the central box? That would dictate the number of wires in the cable needed and what kind you need to buy. Would cable carrier from McMaster-Carr # 55835K432 be sufficient? Thanks, Figure out what cables you need to move back and forth and then choose the carrier. Jamming cables into a cable carrier is not a good idea. I'm well familiar with flexing and shielding issues in general since early HP plotter days. I was hoping to get a simple answer based on real life experience, get this or that cable with x number of shielded and stranded or twisted wires ;-) That's why I mentioned size as that would give one an idea of motor sizes and other requirements. Is it better to have one cable with x number of wires to take care of all needs or a number of smaller cables (y) with x/y wires? If you don't do some figuring before you know what you are going to carry, you will either have too much, or not enough space. Guessing usually doesn't work out nearly as well. Agree, and that's why I tried to see what others are doing on this issue as it seem to be poorly documented in general. I try to capture this from numerous pictures but wires seem to generate little interest in general. As an alternative supplier; Igus sells direct in the US. http://www.igus.com/default.asp?c=usL=en Dave Links are always encouraging. However, I'm still struggling with the variety of cables mentioned on Igus site: data cable, bus cable, servo cable, control cable. Lots of homework ahead I guess, and that's before the experiment can begin. Thanks guys, -- Rafael -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
