[Emc-users] Speed issue with EMC

[Rob Jansen]

My machine is set to to amax. speed of 4800 mm/min (~ 190 inch/min) and 
an acceleration of 9600 mm/min.
But somehow, during milling I reach only speeds of up to 600 mm/min when 
doing small steps in the program.

The thing is controlled with an older PC I still had standing in a 
corner - don't know the exact specs but it is a 1.4 GHz AMD / 786 MB 
SDRAM and a simple VGA card using stepper motor control through the 
printer port.

The G-code is created using DeskProto an contains a lot of small steps 
like this:

>  F2000.0 G1 Y26. Z-7.6255
>  F2000.0 G1 Y26. Z-7.5962
>  F2000.0 G1 Y26.5556 Z-7.5686
>  F2000.0 G1 Y26.7778 Z-7.5429
I see three possible causes for the low speed reached during milling 
this (larger steps are going faster):

   1. the PC is too slow (there is a fairly high CPU load of about 80%
   2. the G-code is not optimal: all the "F2000.0 G1" sequences are not
  needed and just take up valuable time
   3. EMC is deaccelerating after each step before proceeding with the
  next one.

Is anyone using DeskProto with these kinds of speeds ?
and what kind of PC and/or DeskProto settings are you using ?

What is the best thing to try first: create a simple C-program to 
optimize the G-code or should I just go to the shop for a new PC?
Any suggestions on processor type and/or memory, what is the speed 
difference between Core2 Duo and Quad or the newer AMD cores?

I am new to EMC so any help in configuring and building a decent system 
is appreciated.

Regards,

Rob


-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] A axis following errors

[Rob Jansen]

Fred,

as I understood the stepconf wizzard is a brand-new feature in version 2.2.2
I also have similar problems as you are seening with the A-axis on XYZ axes:


Configuration in stepconf gives me reproducible results, the machine is 1x2
meters and the whole bridge (moving along X-axes) is about 60 kilogramms.
Stepconf shows great results with speed = 60mm/s and acceleration = 500
mm/s2.

What I have noticed is that the speeds that stepconf shows during the test
are different from the ones seen in the axis program. Axis uses faster steps
than stepconf, resulting in higher speeds (I still have to measure the real
difference using the logic analyzer).

And yes, this is a problem (for us) since we use stepconf to validate our
movements. My settings mostly work but yesterday the machine lost steps when
reversing directions so I have to lower my acceleration and try again.

Differences you see are however much higher that mine. You tested in
stepconf with 6 revs/s and an acceleration of 66 revs/s and you are noticing
problems in axis with speeds > 1.18 revs/s.
If you did not change the accelaration ramping down at this speed takes
about 0.017 seconds ... A it too fast if you ask me and you'll defenitely
loose steps if this is higher than your machine can handle - independent of
the speed used.

The way it is described in the manual: with low acceleration determine max.
speed and then increase the acceleration.
I know this is a problem with stepconf given wrong results and it will take
some time to get values that work in axis but I think you should try to
decrease your acceleration first (try 2400 deg/s2) and run your G1FxxxA360 /
A0 test at different speeds. If you are confident that you have found a
proper speeds, only then start increasing the accelaration.

Then there is the question about your A-axis drive: From your description it
looks like you are performing a direct drive with the turn table connected
to the stepper motor. This will not work properly at speeds (anything above
real slow).
And keep in mind that the A-axis is not a lathe.
I've translated your rotation speed into lineair speed. 6 revs/s with a 10mm
round object equals to 10 x pi x 6 = 204 mm/s = 12240 mm/minute (73 km/h) or
1/2 inch => 1/2 x pi x 6 x 60 = 565 inch/min.

Regards,

Rob

Quoting f m <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Anyone have any ideas on this? I'm really stuck here
and would like to have a fix or a work around.

Thanks,

Fred


--- f m <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello, I'm having some problems with getting the A
axis on EMC working. Primarily following errors, but
there also appears to be a discrepancy in units
between the stepconfig wizard, (degrees/second) vs.
EMC (degrees/minute), and deceleration at the end of
a move.
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] A axis following errors

[Rob Jansen]

Fred,

coil winder ... then indeed you want these multiple revs/s
I agree with Steve, this is a cool application.

His remarks sound usefull. But then, should stepconf not prevent us to 
do this?
I configured my system using stepconf and it will just not allow me to 
increase the speed above a certain value depending on stepper pulse 
width settings and latency test results.
Did you use the latency-test command to test your system? Yes, of course 
you did - you've been banging your head for a few days on this problem now.

I am very close to the limits my PC can handle, while milling my CPU 
load is somewhere around 80% so I may have to check out Steve's info a 
bit more to see if I still have a sane system.
Yesterday I also noticed strange behaviour where my mill sometimes 
returns to point 0 with an error of more than 1/100 of a mm, while most 
cases the accuracy is more than 20/1000 mm. Looks like I may also have 
axis following problems since I already trimmed down my system to 50% of 
max measured speed (which is not the max. machine speed but the max. PC 
speed ...)

Steve, do you know if BASE_PERIOD is the same as the latency test result 
filled in into stepconf?
I set this value to 15000 ns, the default value of the tool and a bit 
higher than the 12000 I got as a result from latency-test.
Still, I think 80% CPU load may be too high for a real real-time system.

Regards,

Rob

> Rob, 
>
> Let me clarify a bit. The application is for a coil
> winder on a non round form. The form will be directly
> attached to the motor shaft.


-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Stepper torque measurement article

[Rob Jansen]

Aram,

measuring torque on an AC servos is definitely possible.
It is not as simple as measuring current but this does give some feedback.

I don't think that the current used by the servo drivers is a measure 
but you try Stan's setup that way.

There are servo drivers with force-feedback but I an not sure if you 
would be able to add force-feedback to an existing machine / servo system.
Maybe the easiest way is to add strain gauges, these are cheap can 
easily be mounted on any existing machine and you can 'calibrate' the 
output using a weight (with a pulley for X-Y direction).
Force applied on your cutter tool will travel through the whole 
machine,  but the further away the strain gauges are placed from your 
milling spindle, the more acceleration will influence the measurements.

The strain gauges are long strips of electrical risistive material that 
will change their resistance when being pulled (or pushed) on.
Glued to a piece of metal (rod or plate) the resistance varies when the 
metal is bent. Two placed on facing sides and connected into a 
wheatstone bridge give a real good feedback.
I have a pair bicycle cranks operating this way (made by 
http://www.srm.de) : The bottom bracket is connected to the outer ring 
holding the chainwheel using a 4-armed spider (I have to guess but the 
arms are about 10x8 mm or so) and 4 gauges are glued on two facing arms 
and the resulting signal is converted into a frequency that is linear 
with the force applied. The system is calibrated (in Hz/Nm) once every 
two years and the zero point is determined (frequency at 0 Nm force) 
before each trip.

Use force feedback using strain gauges and cutting using a constant 
force always looked good to me but that may be because I never got any 
proper training in machining :-)

Regards,

Rob


> Hi
> Can you measure torque on AC servo motor?
> Can I put that if torque exceed some certain level STOP machine or go to
> feed hold mode. It is very important because torque can directly show
> condition of cutter. If can stop machine when torque start increase I may
> or better will prevent break of cutter.
> I think in program need be include variable that limits maximum torque to
> axis.
>   


-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Updated web page

[Rob Jansen]

Gene,

Just a dir listing, I haven't written a page yet.
  

I think I started the other way around.
I've got a page but no photo's yet - At the end of the day I never find 
(ehh.. take) time to make some photos but today will hopefully be different.
The machine is working, spindle is attached and electronics mounted on a 
piece of MDF wood for the time being but I haven't got any decent 
milling cutters left so I'll have to wait until I can do some real 
milling until my order arrives.


See: http://www.myvoice.nl/freesmachine/?lang=en (I hope to add some 
real photos tonight or tomorrow).

Warning, beginner at play, comments (good/bad) all welcome. :-)
  
All bad ... the machine seems to be still in building stage but it's 
already being put at use (but then - don't we all: I do!  :-) )
At least I would shield the motors and their connections to the thread 
screws. I bought some thick plastic foil that Ikea sells as 
protective/non-slip stuff for kitchen drawers and cabinets, it's 
flexible and does withstand some mechanical abuse - will add some photos 
of this too.
And when you're at it, also put a 'curtain' in between the PC and your 
mill, chips fly everywhere and keyboards specially don't like metal 
chips ...


Oh yeah, and an emergency button won't hurt - may even save your 
machine, I was almost too late hitting the F1 button yesterday.
Also make sure that all cable are firmly attached. Vibrations of the 
spindle and the stepper motors will eventually cut the cables in places 
where these rub against metal sheet.


Looks like a list of things to do on my machine ...

Regards,

   Rob

P.s: I hope this one arrives at this list without too much problems - it 
sometimes takes my mails 2 days before being accepted by sourceforge's 
mailserver :-(
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] step type... which one?

[Rob Jansen]

Jim Coleman wrote:
> I've got 3 little steppers that i want to use, they're 5 wire and i 
> believe bipolar?  if anyone knows where to find datasheets for teac 
> 14769070-30 motors from old 5 1/4 floppy drives, i'd sure like to get 
> a copy.  i know the motor is tiny, i'm only using it for a toy, might 
> push a table around with laser or maybe a sharpie, something of that 
> nature.
>
> I figure it'll be easy to build a simple little set of switching 
> transistors to run the motors from the parport output, using step 
> type...  6?  maybe?  im not doing so well interpreting the figures in 
> the integrators manual.
Controlling a 5 wire type stepper motor is fairly easy, there is one 
common and 4 coils. You'll have to figure out what the common is, 
something you can easily do with an ohm meter (mayby this helps: 
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/stepper/others/example2/)
You could something like the schematics as shown in the two-wire 
connection diagram found at this page: 
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/stepper/control2/connect.html but you 
will need to add some logic to do the conversion of the coil exitation 
sequence to step/direction signals. Google around will give a vast 
amount of links with stepper motor controllers.

Just make sure you start at low voltage/current settings since these 
small motors are not meant for higher currents (it would be nice if you 
still have the original controller board of the drive to check the current).

> after i get that set up, I'll need to build somethin to do the 
> switching from the parport.  I really need to do some reading on using 
> transistors, i got into them slightly years back, and everything i did 
> have sunk in has floated away.  I dont think these motors will draw 
> much current, they're pretty small.
Just make sure you have protection diodes installed. When you remove the 
power of a coil you'll get a voltage spike on it's terminals and even 
with smaller motors these may damage your transistors.
When selecting transistors you could use simple MOS-FETs. The IRF 7403 
(http://chipdig.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/232/IRF7403.php) is an 
SMD component, but most pins can be soldered together. I use these 
little thingies to control high power LEDs at 350 mA, use the simple 
schematics as given in figure 10a in the datasheet - just make sure you 
install an extra diode accros the D-S connection, should be a schottky 
diode like a 1N5819

But it may be a lot easier to just buy a set of motors with controllers. 
May save you a lot of head aches and damaged components.
> I figure this little project will be a good experience before i'm 
> diving into a mesa m5i20 with my hitachi seiki VMC, with 1.3 and 2.8KW 
> servos and a 7.5hp spindle
Yes indeed, that project is a little too powerfull to be used for newbies.
I'm a newbie too - in CNC machining that is, I'm an electronics/computer 
engineer for about 20 years by now - and mistakes do happen.
My machine has 250 and 500 W stepper motors and a 2 kW spnidle and I 
make sure I stay close to the E-stop button (an external E-stop, the ESC 
key from Axis is not enough as you can read in another thread) and out 
of range of the spindle motor.

When starting up your big machine for the first time, use a virtual 
milling cutter and try to imagine what will happen. Next use a simple 
cutter (a cheap one - it may break) and use a piece of foam as 'subject 
under torture'.
And do NOT operate your machine without limit switches and an Emergency 
stop on motor controller and spindle.

I am now playing around with my machine for about three weeks and I 
started milling in foam (the type being used for isolating the roof) and 
MDF 'wood'. Meanwhile I ruined 3 cheap cutters, one just because I 
forgot to home the Z-axis after changing the cutter and the other two by 
underestimating the power of aluminium ...

Good luck,

Rob


-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] step type... which one?

[Rob Jansen]

Jim,
> with these motors im not looking for step direction, i want to use 
> stepgen to switch the 4 coils, thats why I'll use a higher step mode, 
> like 5 or 6.  I was thinkin about just usin NPN transistors from the 
> parport to switch the coils.  if i end up killin the parport by not 
> usin optoisolators, big whoop ill use a different computer to play with.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean with the step mode, but using opto 
isolators is simple. My motor controllers have built-in opto isolators, 
the LED is connected with a resistor to the +5 V (I used an old USB 
cable to get the 5V out of my PC) and the output of the opto isolator is 
a simple NPN transistor that can be used to pull the input of the 'real' 
electronics to ground or the (logic) supply voltage of your motor drivers.

You do have motor drivers? There is no way you can control them directly 
from the parport.
> I run machines this size all day at work, 
Good, I noticed that some guys may forget that a computer controlled 
mill may suddenly change direction and/or speed while moving.
Breaking a cutter now and then is only econimical pain, but I keep 
reminding myself that I should never try to remove any chips from the 
workpiece while the machine is in operation.

> and it might even make some smoke and get rid of some of these old 
> computers i couldnt turn down.
Remember: smoke is what makes electricity work and if you let the smoke 
out of the circuits, they stop working :-D
> BTW, what kinda cutters you usin / breakin?  3/4 inch end mills can 
> plow through quite a bit. :-D
The motor has a ER25 collet that holds max. 16mm (~0.6 inch) but the 
motor runs from 1500 - 18000 rpm only so I'm not using more than 10mm 
rough mills and 6mm end mills in aluminium.
Broken up to now: 2 and 3 mm solid carbide and 6mm HSS.

Regards,

Rob

-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] step type... which one?

[Rob Jansen]

What I meant to say is that you do need motor drivers, the outputs of 
the parport will not let you draw any current (that is of use for 
stepper motors).
You can draw 10, if you're lucky even 25, mA from the parport directly 
so to control the stepper motors you will need a driver.

Why does everyone immediately think of (expensive) microstepper drivers 
when "motor drivers" is mentioned.
As I also wrote, an IRF7402 FET will do nicely for lower currents. They 
are my standard part to control these high power Luxeon/Seoul LEDs at 
350 mA.
The Ron is 0.022 Ohm and power dissipation 2.5W so they can handle nice 
currents if cooled a bit and they only cost me about € 0.40 each and Jim 
already wrote he will use a schottky diode (1N5819 @ € 0.15) so building 
a stepper motor driver can be real cheap.

But looking in your junk-box you'll may find some old 2N3055 
transistors, they'll also do the trick at the cost of a little more 
power consumption.

Building a motor driver in this way will not get the most out of your 
motor, it does not use any current/voltage control like sophisticated 
controllers but this will defenitely get you going with a simple setup. 
I have been building robots using Fisher Technik this way when I was a kid.

'Was' ??? I still feel a kid some days when I am allowed to play with 
these nice CNC tools :-D

Regards,

Rob

> bingo!
>
>
>
> >You do have motor drivers? There is no way you can control them
> directly
> >from the parport.
> >
> >
> Actually, you can. I didn't look at the step types, but there are two
> types of direct 4-phase drive: full-stepping and half-stepping.
>


-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] home-mad CNC machine project.

[Rob Jansen]

Sean,

The stepper driver looks OK at a first glance but I did not have a 
detailed look at the schematics.
It looks to be a full-step driver which is nice since full step drivers 
tend to have a higher torque than microstep ones.


But I would stay away from the easy to build desktop thingy from 
instructables.com, it's just too weird a design and these funny piping 
and aluminium profile parts do cost money, there are other design on 
instructables that I think make more sense:


   
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Three-Axis-CNC-Machine-Cheaply-and-/
   
http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-a-CNC-Router-from-Scratch-Part-1%3a-Complete/

make more sense, I prefer the top one since it contains a more detailed 
description on how to build it (instead of videos showing how to handle 
a saw) and some links to stores selling parts.


Rockcliff Machine sells the plans and parts for a home-made CNC router 
but if you have a look at the photos in the gallery you'll get a fairly 
good idea of its construction.
Using aluminium L strips to do the linear guidance looks nice and 
cheaper than the round steel axes. Before building/buying anything I 
would advice to make some detailed drawings of what the linear support 
should look like and then make a price calculation. When I started 
drawing and building my machine I made a rough guestimate of around 
$4,000 but on the go I updated the plans and got to a total of $10,000 
and now I want to buld a second (small) one much like the Rockcliff 
design but from aluminium instead of MDF board. Since the first machine 
left a nice hole in my savings account this second machine needs to be 
low-cost, but I still want to be able to use it to do some real work in 
plastics/foam/wood and maybe later even aluminium.


You'll find rockcliff at http://www.rockcliffmachine.com/cnchome.htm

Some words of advice for going cheap:
Use MDF board, it is easy to work with, and select standard threaded 
rods from the DIY store that will fit in roller-skating bearings so you 
can fix the bearing using standard nuts instead of having to make 
special mounts. Use thick-walled (not to thick, not to rigid) plastic 
hose with hose clamps as motor couplings this is by far the easiest and 
cheapest coupling I could think of.
If investing any real money, invest it in a milling spindle that does 
not make too much noise. When I started I used a Dremel tool but it 
makes just too much noise to let it run for more than 10 minutes - I 
defenitely did not want to be in the same room as a constantly running 
Dremel...


This may build you a working CNC milling machine but it will only do 
some light milling and I would be surprised if it gives you an accuracy 
as good as 0.02 inch


Just my two cents worth - and don't spend it all at once ;-)

   Rob

I was wondering if anyone has ever tried a do-it-yourself CNC project 
like this. 
http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-build-CNC-Mill-Stepper-Motor-and-Driver-ci/ 
and this 
http://www.instructables.com/id/Easy-to-Build-Desk-Top-3-Axis-CNC-Milling-Machine/ 
. If so, any pointers or words of knowledge before I dive in?
Also, I'm still looking for some stepper motors to use if anyone has a 
good source..  I'm a college student, so I'm obviously broke and 
starving.  So, inexpensive would be good.  Thanks guys.


Sean


-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Stepper motor and driver selection

[Rob Jansen]

Aaron,

> The gantry weighs about 70Kg and I have 16mm lead screws with 
> 4mm pitch.  Could some one tell me what specs I need so i can look out for 
> stuff on ebay UK.
>   

I have 6.4 Nm (~ 900 oz inch) motors, my gantry weighs about 80-90 Kg
and 16mm lead screws with 5mm pitch.
The motors are way too strong but my microstepper drivers are not able
to get the motors running faster than 400 revs/min.
Motor type is 34SM095-064-8W-SB12-6.4 and the drivers MSD-50-5.6
connected to a 42 V powersupply, both from www.stappenmotor.nl.
Force applied on the gantry goes up to 4000 N - this is big, too big.
2.5 Nm should be big enough, even for such a heavy machine.

I am going to buy an extra 2.5 Nm motor for the A-axis, hoping that this
motor (as promissed) will give a higher speed.

If you can, buy a combination that is specified with the wanted max.
speed you want.
For motor drivers: use only current controlled types with as high as a
voltage as you dare. The higher the max. output voltage, the more speed
you'll reach.
Select a driver with (at least) a 40 volt supply voltage for good results.

Rob


-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Stepper motor and driver selection

[Rob Jansen]

Aaron,
> The gantry weighs about 70Kg and I have 16mm lead screws with 
> 4mm pitch.  Could some one tell me what specs I need so i can look out for 
> stuff on ebay UK.
>   
I have 6.4 Nm (~ 900 oz inch) motors, my gantry weighs about 80-90 Kg 
and 16mm lead screws with 5mm pitch.
The motors are way too strong but my microstepper drivers are not able 
to get the motors running faster than 400 revs/min.
Motor type is 34SM095-064-8W-SB12-6.4 and the drivers MSD-50-5.6 
connected to a 42 V powersupply, both from www.stappenmotor.nl.
Force applied on the gantry goes up to 4000 N - this is big, too big. 
2.5 Nm should be big enough, even for such a heavy machine.

I am going to buy an extra 2.5 Nm motor for the A-axis, hoping that this 
motor (as promissed) will give a higher speed.

If you can, buy a combination that is specified with the wanted max. 
speed you want.
For motor drivers: use only current controlled types with as high as a 
voltage as you dare. The higher the max. output voltage, the more speed 
you'll reach.
Select a driver with (at least) a 40 volt supply voltage for good results.

Rob

-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Homing using 2 motors per axis

[Rob Jansen]

Gentlemen,

My milling machine uses 2 ball screw spindles with separate motors (and 
separate microstep drivers) to move the Y-axis portal which is 1.2 meter 
wide.
To do accurate homing, each axis should have its own homing switch and 
the motors should be controlled using different I/O signals.


This, most likely, has been done before.
Does anyone have some information, or maybe even a pointer to a complete 
implementation for this?
Before I start reading through the integrator and HAL manuals I though I 
try it "the easy way" first ...


Regards,

   Rob - I keep always telling collegues there is no easy way ...

-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Homing using 2 motors per axis

[Rob Jansen]

Rayh,

the whole gauntry acts as a swivel :-}
It's all made of aluminium sheet 15 mm thick, 30 cm wide and 70 cm 
height with two 80x80 beams of 122 cm long. If I remove one of the ball 
screws I can move that side a few centimeters without applying too much 
force.


I thought of adding a timing belt like Dennis mentioned but was afraid 
there is too much elasticity in such a long belt (when using two motors).
When switching on the power supply to the motors both stepper motors 
will switch to a full step so one motor may move clockwise while the 
other goes ccw, one full step means 5 mm (pitch of ball screw) / 200 
(steps/rev) = 0.025 mm difference. This does not seem too much so maybe 
I should not worry too much about this and just measure the difference 
between both sides from time to time.


There never is a problem during operation of the machine - at least not 
after setting up the stepper timing correctly.
Meanwhile I decided to leave it as it is, there are enough tother things 
I have to do before the machine is 'finished' - unless of course someone 
has a complete canned solution that I could use.


My next machine will most likely use just one motor with a belt drive to 
two ball screws but I have to look at the specs for the timing belts 
first to see if this will give me the accuracy wanted.


Regards,

   Rob

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi Rob

I've been curious about these dual drive axes for quite a while now.  
There are several possible mechanical lashups with something like 
this.  It seems to me that in order to allow separate homing of each 
drive, there would have to be a swivel on one side or the other of the 
mechanical slide.  Is that the case with your machine?


Rayh

-


-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Homing using 2 motors per axis

[Rob Jansen]

Clint,

home with the motors on. My machine's motors are not strong enough to 
hurt the machine when they run into the stops so I usually just crash 
the axis then home... Oh ya, stepper motors...


This method is brutal but effective.
  


Brute and destructive on my machine ...
It happened once, while overshooting the home switch and if I now place 
a hair ruler on the bearing block (made out of 6082-T651 alu) I can see 
it's bent ...
I used the manual procedure you described a few times but the problem, 
as Rayh acknowledges, is that the motors move to a full step position 
when the controllers are switched on and at that time there already is a 
misallignment of max. 0.02 mm.
But I'll leave this as it is for now - A full step is 0.025 mm and the 
two axes are 1220 mm apart so that gives a max. 0.001 degree error. If a 
customer wants more accuracy, they'll have to pay enough for me to 
upgrade my machine ;-)


Rayh,
As long as you don't have to worry about loosing steps, both motors 
could be driven from the same set of step and direction pulses -- 
except when trying to find home.  I'm thinking of a real kludge here 
but since you can home anytime, you could build a little switch that 
disconnects one drive from the step and direction signals at a time 
while the other one homes.   Once both are homed, send the motion 
pulses to both and you should have a well behaved system.
No lost steps seen here the last few weeks and I have made some funny 
mistakes - like running an 18mm end mill through a 15mm workpiece at 400 
mm/min ... Ruined my workpiece but both the milling bit and the 
machine's zero position were not affected at all.
I found a simple and effective solution for the kludge that you 
described above: a few logic gates to disable the stepper pulse to the 
axis when the corresponding home switch triggers during a travel towards 
the switches. The homing signal to EMC is only activated when both axes 
are homed.


I'll add this solution some day, but I first need to finish the 
machanical/electrical construction: mounting of the energy chains, 
mounting all electronics in the control cabinet, add an extra plate to 
the table and ... and ... and ...


Just got a phonecall: my first customer is finished and wants to deliver 
materials and milling data coming Friday - originally this was planned 
two weeks later.
So I've still got 5 days to get the machine in a proper shape, including 
today.
Luckily I don't have to start milling right away but it should at least 
look as if I'm ready O:-)


   Rob

-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] EMC list troubles, and thanks, Gene Heskett!

[Rob Jansen]

Gary,

I also have problems with the mail servers (from sourceforge that is).
For some reason, most of my mails I write through Thunderbird arrive 
with a normal delay but last Sunday I wrote an email (Re on "How do I 
calculate leadscrew push/pull forces?" but that mail only arrived 2 days 
later. Somehow it hung for 2 days between my provider's mailserver and 
my own.


Both webmail and Thunderbird use the same (my own local) mailserver to 
deliver the mail to my provider and in both cases they use the same 
outgoing mailserver at my provider. Still, mails I write via webmail are 
mostly late or do not arrive at all where mails I write via Thunderbird 
normally arrives within a minute or so on the mailing list.
(it is now Wed. 07:06 CET so about Tue 22:06 local time according to 
sourceforge)


I keep forgettting this and since I tend to be away a lot (spending too 
much time in the shop ...) these days I keep trying to use webmail.


But GMail is nowadays also providing IMAP access so maybe I'll switch 
back to GMail again. I setup a "your domain on GMail" account long ago 
so all mail for myvoice.nl can go via their services.


Regards,

   Rob
   -- May the forge be with you

Gary Fixler wrote:
I set up an account for this list - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 - through my host, but couldn't reply to 
the confirmation email from Thunderbird on Linux at home. It would 
send, and go into my outbox, but nothing would ever come of it. I had 
to click through to the site (from Thunderbird), and confirm it there. 
I then couldn't send, nor reply to any message ever from Thunderbird, 
though I tried several times to do both over the past few weeks, 
hoping it would finally take. It would, however, always let me send, 
and reply from the web interface.


-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008.
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] European EMC event & users

[Rob Jansen]

I'd love to have a European event.
Preferably in my workshop, but then I'd first need to by a 2nd hand machine
to retrofit :-)
Maybe 2009 or 2010.

Meanwhile It would be interesting where the EMC users in The Netherlands and
Europe are located.
Are there any other EMC users in the Netherlands (I am located in Nijmegen
near the German border).

Regards,

Rob


> Maybe I've missed a mail or two lately (not reading that is...), but is
> there any European EMC-event coming up?
>
> Please give me the dates for all events and I can post them at cnczone.
>
> Regards,
> Sven
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference 
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. 
Use priority code J8TL2D2. 
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] newb question: coordinate spaces and setup

[Rob Jansen]

Robert,

Being new to g-code and cnc I've been trying to learn the best way to
> think about the coordinate spaces and offsets etc (for a cnc mill).
>
> I'm thinking I should use a **fixture** plate with alignment pins etc to
> mount to the table. Some kind of pallet plate to hold the work
> (plugs into fixture).
>

This depends on the type of work and the type (and size) of workpieces you
have.
I make mostly small parts (a few inches long with a max. of 10~15")
sometimes in small series (10 pc) which I then mill out of a larger block by
moving the home position using one of the user selectable coordinate
systems. And I am in the process of adding a rotation axis which mostly be
used for N-sided milling of small workpieces. Production time is not
critical to me so it does not matter if mounting a new workpiece takes 10
seconds or 10 minutes and my mill is a gantry type with an XY travel of
78x47" so there is plenty of room to leave the rotational axis on one side
when it is not being used.

If you have a complex mounting system a pallet system comes in handy. I know
of one setup where a complete 3D shaped housing is being created out of a
15x10x4" block of aluminum, steel mushroom type of mounting pins are being
used to clamp the block in place and after milling one side it is being
turned upside down on a special created clamp (pallet) to create the other
side. Creation of the product would be very hard, next to impossible, if you
do not use a pallet system.
For larger series with short machine running times a pallet system will keep
the machine running as long as possible while you mount a series of rough
blocks or partly finished products on the next pallet.

Palleting systems can be very complex. The simplest one have one pallet
position and complex systems may have multiple pallet positions with their
own home coordinates, or an automatic pallet changer with multiple pallet
positions. These can be as hard, or harder, to control as an automatic tool
changer...

My current thinking is that I would home x and y to the lower left of
> the table. For z I'd use a spacer block off the table to the end of the
> spindle.
>
>  From there I'd use global offsets use a global offset (G92) to align to
> the fixture. From there I'm guessing one whould use the users-selectable
> coordinate
> systems to align ...
>

For a manual pallet changer manual homing may be satisfactory. A pallet
changer may use the same home position for all pallets (the pallet is
physically being replaced). But if you go for multiple pallets on one
machine your suggestions look like what I would try - but I never used a
pallet system before.
If your machine has a probe tool that is usable with an automatic tool
changer you may even probe for the proper home position - comes in handy if
your mounting system does not have a mounting precision that is needed for
your operation.

Tool tables looked kinda fancy so I was going to defer using them until
> I had a better mental foundation of the system, using some kind of
> programatic offsets instead.
>

Depends on your software. I mostly use Filou or DeskProto (before anyone
flames me - these are windows applications :-( ) and both include their own
tool table so tool offsets are calculated by the software. But I also do
some hand-G-coding sometimes and miscalculating tool offsets cost me a
mill-bit or two ...

So in the end it all depends: what  type of product, is machine operating
time critical, are you creating series of the same products, ...

Regards,

Rob
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference 
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. 
Use priority code J8TL2D2. 
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] newb question: coordinate spaces and setup

[Rob Jansen]

Gary,


> I think this doesn't even have to be mounted. It could simply be a little
> device you place on the table whenever needed, though it wouldn't be quite
> as fast as a prox switch. I just found this while poking around the net:
>
>
> http://www.industrialhobbies.com/howto/production_notes/height_gauge/height_gauge_pt1.htm
>
> I'll just need a parallel block, a height gauge, a little block for the
> gauge tip, and some epoxy.
>

This looks like an easy thing to make.
Just make sure the top surface is a perfect level, if it's not then the
height will change with different diameter cutters.

A friend made a probe that measures the height, connected this to the probe
input and added a zeroing macro to his machine.
His height gauge is just a simple industrial switch based on a micro switch,
it's accurate within about 2/100 mm.
I decided to go for a design using the Renishaw patent, see link for an
exploded view, but I'm too busy finishing the milling machine to finish it.
(http://www.myvoice.nl/freesmachine/photo.php?name=nul-steller-explode&img=6)
I think a slotted optical switch will be good enough.

I'll be using two height gauges, one to determine the top of my workpiece
and one to measure the offset between the different mills.
I envision a automatic procedure where G-code macros are used to
automatically correct the tool offset after each change:


   1. insert the first mill
   2. set x,y,z = 0,0,0 to the top left of my workpiece
   3. move the milling spindle to the center of my height gauge (which
   I'll place close to my workpiece)
   4. start the program which will then:
   5. determine the tool offset for the current mill
   6. run and stop for a tool change
   7. a manual tool change
   8. move to the height gauge, determine the new tool offset and
   calculate the new Z=0 (or program the tool length)

This will have to do until enough money flows in to buy an automatic tool
changer :-)

Regards,

Rob
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference 
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100. 
Use priority code J8TL2D2. 
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] newb question: coordinate spaces and setup

[Rob Jansen]

>
> It makes me wish I had a nice granite surface plate, and height
> gauge. I used to wonder what people did with those, but lately I've been
> finding lot of uses for them.


I've got a friend who makes carbon disc wheels for bicycles.
He uses one to check if the rim is perfectly round and flat.

But indeed, a granite plate is a cool tool to have - and not too expensive
(compared to other tools).
Problem is where to put it; it's heavy and not something you move around
when it is not being used.
I have a thin granite plate that I use to knead dough for my pasta :o)

A friend made a probe that measures the height, connected this to the probe
> > input and added a zeroing macro to his machine.
>
>
> How possible are zeroing macros like this in EMC2? I believe I can do it
> manually by touching-off from a manually found zero point, but I've been
> seeing a lot of automated zeroing with things like what you mention on
> YouTube lately, especially in Mach 3, and I've wanted similar.


Hm, let me quickly check the EMC2 manual ...
In section 14.19:

To make the current point have the coordinates you want (without motion),
program G92 X- Y- Z- A- B- C-

Use the probe command G38.x to measure the length of the mill, this returns
the position in parameters 5061 and further.
Doing a simple touch off measurement (with a height gauge placed on top of
your workpiece) you don't even need the result of the probe command. After
probing the current position is exactly x mm or inch above your workpiece so
you only have to do a G92 Z 2 (if your gauge is 2 inch).

With a second gauge fixed on your table, you can probe for the offset (top
of workpiece to reference of gauge) and save that value (lets say this is #5
Then replace the mill with a new tool and probe again, now this position
must be made #5 (using G92 Z #5).

Wow, this looks even simpler than I imagined (my friend uses WIN-PCNC).
I think I'll hunt on ebay for a few of those vandal proof switches to use as
height gauges.

I've been getting closer to using the tool table concept lately. I haven't
> had any fixed-length tools, though, and no automated changer, so it's been
> mostly pointless. I did finally buy a few more end-mill holders, so I can
> devote a couple to common tools, meaning I can get some repeatable tool
> lengths on the mini mill, but no more than probably 2, maybe 3 [image: 
> :)]They're
> just so pricey for me for the Sherline, at $30/ea. I'm sure that's very
> low
> when compared to big machines, but it is just a hobby, after all. $30/ea.
> adds up quickly when you want handfuls of them.
>

Lucky you! My milling spindle has a fixed ER25 collet and there is no way to
change tools with a repeatable height :-(

- Rob
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft 
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] .deb of CVS?

[Rob Jansen]

Matt,

My purpose is to be able to have "easy to install" updates or hot fixes,
> in between released versions if required, without
> emc2-dev/CVS/run-in-place.
>

Good question, up to now I just waited for a new LiveCD. I think the answer
is on:

http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?InstallingUpdates

I just plugged in the network cable and noticed the update popping up - but
since I have to do some money making this week I did not yet dare to do this
...

But I am a "software engineer" and I was the one to blame for the OMTI 5510
harddisk driver in Minix, way-back in 1988 or so. I've ported Linux to a
number of targets, did some device drivers and much more stuff that I don't
even remember. But I am just too scared to ruin my running EMC2 system so I
had a second system installed when 2.2.2 came out and just replaced the
hardware.

But ... I want to be able to do these simple updates. The easy to install
.deb would be an option (why recompile if it's already been tested, the
developers know best what they changed and may even know how to test :o) )
Another option (I do have this second PC anyway) would be to install a
development PC. I can compile, test, mess around, try out some new HAL
stuff, even hook it up to the machine and even replace my 'live' EMC2 system
on a sudden death.

So another question is how to install updates that I compiled myself on
another system.

Rob
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft 
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] .deb of CVS?

[Rob Jansen]

Alex,

On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 10:13 +0300, Alex Joni wrote:


> Hi Rob,
>
> updates which you get automagically won't screw your install.
> We only provide automatic updates for the same release branch of emc2 (so
if
> you have emc2.2.2 you'll get automatic updates for 2.2.3, 2.2.4, 2.2.5,
etc,
> but you won't get automatic updates from 2.1.x to 2.2.x, or to 2.3.x -
> manual intervention is required for that).

That's what I had expected: only update within the 2.2.x branch, I am more
concerned about what I could do wrong myself (not that much - I know).
It is just that I needed to do some productive milling today and I did not
want to get into any possible problems.

> If you produce deb's from your local testing dir, then you can surely
> install that deb on another system.
> If you only use checkout, compile (with run in place, as to not mess an
> installed system), then it's a bit harder to move the work.

Then I'll start reading the documentation and check the Wiki on how to do
this.
Last time I made a .deb file it was called .rpm (on RedHat) and that was
about 7 years ago ...

Regards,

Rob
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft 
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] segmentation fault

[Rob Jansen]

I'm building a little cnc router with EMC2 as the
> controller software running with Xylotek steppers and
> everything works fine but when i try to reboot or
> shutdown ubuntu it stops with a "segmentation fault"
> error. This only happens when i run EMC2, if i run any
> other program from ubuntu except EMC2 then it behaves
> normally.


I see the same problem. Never tried a reboot, but at a shutdown the system
may end up with a segmentation fault.
But this is only after the message that the system is halted (and after the
harddisks are parked / stop spinning) so I do not worry about this too much.

Note that this never happens while Ubuntu is up&running: I can start and
stop any program I like (including the EMC2 Axis interface), it only happens
at shutdown.
This also does not happen always, I got the feeling it's about 50% of all
shutdowns that does this.

Regards,

Rob
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft 
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] How does EMC build bicycles / Re: Scale and Rotate

[Rob Jansen]

> How does EMC2 build bicycles?
>
> John


Easy, just write G-code to mill a mold, apply carbon cloth and epoxy resin
in the mold, inser a tube (a bike's inner tube) and bolt the mold together.
Then apply pressure to the inner tube and let the epoxy harden.

This is how I make bikes. Until now the molds have been created by hand from
plugs (a model) created by another company (or hand made ones).
In a few weeks I'll start making my own plug and molds using EMC2 to build a
new bike that will be used for record attempts.

- Rob
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft 
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Thread Milling

[Rob Jansen]

>
> Is tapping obsolete?
>
> http://www.emuge.com/carbide_thread/
>

Nope, tapping is still useful, these tools need space (try making a 2 mm
thread this way - the tool is larger).
But this is really useful, there are different tools. Threading mills like
the one shown in the picture give a fixed pitch where you can vary the
diameter: just mill a helix with the proper radius and you're done.

There are also single thread mills. It takes some more time to make a thread
this way since you have to repeat helixes until you have enough length on
the thread but with a single mill you can also vary the pitch. I'm going to
experiment with this type of thread miling since I need to create a 6 fold
36mm thread with a pitch of 1mm.
This is easy to do using a simple procedure: go to the starting height, make
a thread with a 6mm pitch, go back to the starting point but 1mm higher and
make a helix. repeat this 6 times and there is my M36x1 6-fold thread.

But it's not the ultimate machiner's dream. See:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3101/is_1_78/ai_n13809324


- Rob
-
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft 
Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Encoder with 5 000 000 pulses/rev

[Rob Jansen]

 Aram,

i talk to company that manufacture encoder with 5 000 000 pulses per rev.
> the problem is that that encoder has MAXIMUM rpm less than 200 rpm!!!
> so that encoder can be speen faster than 200 rpm because frequences not
> enogh to keep so much pulses.
> if you want speen faster get lower resolution incoder 1 000 000 pulses per
> rev.


I am not sure which way you are going.
5,000,000 pulses per rev at 200 rpm gives a 16,000,000 pulses per second
which means you have to handle 32 MHz signals to be able to count the
pulses.
These are (sorry for the wording) insane data rates.
This makes me wondering what you are trying to do, with a 2 inch ball screw
this gives you 0.4 micro inch resolution. 200 rpm, 2 inch == 400 inch/min or
10 meters/min (380 mph or 600 kmh). With a 0.2 inch ball screw speeds would
make sense again, and in that case I'd love a higher speed, but a 0.04 micro
inch (approx 1 micro meter) resolution on a ball screw rotation measurement
is very high, most likely much higher than the precision of all separate
components.

is this possible to build electronics "gear box" that at lover rpm will
> use encoder with 5 000 000 pulses per rev and when rpm increases
> "electronic gear box" will switch to encoder with lover resolution that is
> 1 000 000 pulses per rev?
>

You could stick two encoders together and switch from high to low(er)
precision when you reach a certain speed but you will always loose precision
while doing this.
If your design needs such high precision combined with high speeds then
you'll need to think of another way of designing your machine.

Regards,

Rob
-
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise

[Rob Jansen]

> Wow - I guess I should be proud of myself that I had a physical estop
> button
> and a machine kill switch designed in while things were still on the bench!


Yep, there should be an easy way to kill the power to the machine.
And it should be in reach of your free arm while the other one is being
broken by the machine ...

Ok, enough bragging - get your physical estop button - that button, even one
>
> of the high dollar ones, is worth its weight in gold compared to the damage
>
> it can do to the machine (or you) if things go awry.  I wonder - did your
> program actually specify a new tool (ie m6  t02) or just an m6 with you
> knowing what tool it needed next.  My mill stops on the M6 T2 that was
> generated by CamBam and waits (typically I'd been handcoding and doing
> separate programs for each tool since I don't have an automated touch off
> concept in place yet).


I also use separate programs for different tools.
Today I just tried the T02 M6 cycle but somehow the pointer showing the tool
location disappeared from the axis window.

Rob
-
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Wax

[Rob Jansen]

Kirk,

I have some stuff called "Spann-Folie" in German. I bought this from
Sartorius in Germany.
I friend of me used it also to create round disks of a few milimeters thick
on his lathe.
The label on the packaging tells me it's called
Mitee-Grip.


Works perfectly well.

This stuff makes milling small or thin pieces an easy thing to do.
The only hassle is that you first need to press workpiece and sacrificial
plate together and heat then to about 90 Celsius.

Regards,

Rob
-
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] E-stop Surprise

[Rob Jansen]

I agree  with Jon:

You really HAVE to have a hardware E-stop!
>
> The business with the pointer focus on the GUI is pretty
> dangerous, and I run into it all the time.


'In the Beginning' I just used the E-Stop input pin from the HAL,
but I was wondering if this is safe enough so I now added a 'real' E-stop.

I have a simple machine switch (one of those solenoid controlled Red/Green
button things) and just placed an E-stop button in the feed line to this
switch (it is a normal closed switch).
This combination provides power two relays: one 3-phase relay to provide
power to the servos and VFD for the spindle and one relay connected to the
E-stop input of EMC2.
So hitting the E-stop both cuts power to the power parts and also signals
EMC that the machine is stopped.

I thought that installing an E-stop was more important than limit switches
but I guess I was wrong: I need both ...

Regards,

Rob
-
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] EMC Fest

[Rob Jansen]

>
> > http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/festcam.shtml
> HUH!  Bunch of pikers - where the heck are you?  All I see are
> empty chairs!
>
> Jon


Agree, it's only 2 at night and already everyone has gone of to bed ? :-)

Think this is good though, you need to be fully awake when operating these
powerful machines.
Making a mistake can damage machine and/or operator.

When operating my machine I always make sure it has got my full attention.
And never drink and drive or operate a milling machine!!!

OT: I saw a youtube video some time ago with a few guys who created a kind
of fairground attraction with a chair mounted to a 6-axis robot.
I think this is insane. One wrong move or a glitch in the system may damage
the person riding the attraction.
Always use proper safety measures when working on a mill, a lathe or a 6-DOF
robot!

And yes, I'm a piker too. I once saw a chuck flying by, hitting a hole in a
steel cupboard.
Since then I make sure I am safe in case the impossible becomes possible.
Walking into the work area of a bit (6 x 12 meters) 5 axis CNC milling
machine was not something I liked doing when making photos of my workpiece
under construction ...
(I was told the mill cannot reach below 1 meter from the ground so in case
of emergency just lie down)

Rob
-
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Touch off / G92 headaches

[Rob Jansen]

I know this is probably my own fault for not having limit and home switches
(yet)

But I keep getting headaches from the Axis behavior of the touch off
function in Axis.
When I move my zero position finder and then try to do a touch off with 4mm
to get the home coordinate, suddenly the OK button in the touch off window
becomes grayed out.
It works sometimes but not ever. Is there some kind of dependency on
previous homing sequences?

having this problem I started to use the G92 in the MDI window. I wanted to
try this anyway because I want to automate this procedure using a probe  to
prevent any future problems (I just crashed my $75 LED homing sensor due to
having the wrong increment set when moving ...).
It looks like this made the problem worse: I can't even do a normal homing
anymore after using G92.
A short example:

I switch on the machine and do a normal homing using the home button, now
X=0. I do a touch off (using G92 X-4), do my milling and prepare for a
second job. When I now press the home button then X becomes -4 (the value of
the G92 command)
This looks OK but when I now move the X-axis 1 mm further and do a new G92
X-4 command then pressing the home button sets X to -5.

Some of my work involves a concatenation of multiple milling programs (using
absolute coordinates) where I placed a sequence like "G0 X100, G92 X0" on
two lines in between the different programs. in this way I get multiple
parts out of one sheet.
Things get worse now. When I stop in the middle of a program using multiple
G92 commands, the home position is not what I expect it to be (i.e. the one
defined by the last G92 command).

Am I just misusing a feature here or is this something which is fixed in a
newer release?

Regards,

Rob
-
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Tandem Axes-YY

[Rob Jansen]

Jon Elson  wrote:

This is, in general, a bad idea to have a rigid tandem axis.
>

Define "rigid". Even a 1-foot steel I beam has some flex...
Depending on the size and material there is always some flex in the system.
I have a dual ball srews on both sides of my X-axis, some quick details on
the system:

each sides has a 6.4 Nm stepper motor with a 16mm ball screw with 5mm pitch.
Each sides has 2 x 25mm linear guide carriages mounted 30 cm apart, these
are mounted on a 15mm aluminium plate (6082 T651), 70 cm tall with on the
top 2 x 80x80mm 'Bosch' style aluminum beams (heavy duty type).
Both axes are mounted 1.2 m apart from each other.

If I remove the second ball screw there is enough flex between both sides
that the other side will move about 2 cm in both directions without having
to apply too much force.
Using one motor with belt drive could have been possible but then there is
still some elasticity in the belt drive and when building the machine I had
my doubts if one motor could deliver enough power.

I have combines home/limit switches on one side and with some standard
combinatorial logic I make sure that the motor is stopped as soon as the
home is reached (and the axis is moving towards the home/limit switch.
Only when both axes are homed, the home signal will be sent to EMC2.
As soon as both axes are homed, EMC will back off from the home switch and
the direction signal allows both motors to move again.

In this way both X-axes are homed on a 90 degrees angle from the Y-axis. No
steps are lost so there is no way the axes will become miss-aligned. Only
reason for miss-alignment could be during start-up of the motor drivers
where both axes may move to a different full-step location. So in theory
there is a max. 0.03 mm difference in the position of both sides of the X
axis during startup.
There is always enough flex in the system to allow for a small difference in
position between both sides before becoming a problem.

Ray Henry wrote:


> I'm thinking that it might be possible to measure the power to each of
> the two motors and work from that as a sort of "squareness indicator."
>

Yes, this may work for homing. but as soon as you start milling, the force
on both motors differs depending of the location of the mill between the two
axes.

Or as John suggests reduce the gain to the second motor low enough so
> that it is moved when the first is homed, assume that it is also home
> and increase it's power to match the primary motor.  After all, if they
> are both rigidly connected to the beam, what good does homing a second
> motor do.
>

If the system was really rigid you'd only need one motor (see above).
If servo motors are used then yes, there should be a way to prevent both
axes from moving at a too different movement.
I guess that using servo motors the position of the motor should be acurate
at any given time, so with EMC driving the position of the servo motors both
axes should be at the same location (+/- some accuracy of the system)
So I think that the system I described above for stepper motors could also
work with a servo drive - but I never tested this myself.

John Kasunich wrote:

One approach is to consider the power-up state as "acceptable" meaning
> "since the motors were free-wheeling a minute ago, there can't be too
> much stress in the machine".


That is what I  tend to think. But I am not sure what a servo system (with
relative  encoders) might do. If there is the possibility for a servo drive
to move  at random during startup then this could harm the system.
But this should, IMHO, not happen because this could also mean an axis could
crash into a limit switch (we are talking about random movement that is not
related to any EMC2 request - so there is no way limit switches are
checked).

Jon Elson wrote:


> I was hoping to find a solution that could easily be implemented
> in a few HAL components.
>

For a stepper drive this is definitely possible, unfortunately I have no HAL
experience so I did this using a few standard 74lsxx logic circuits which
was the fastest way for me to get the system running.

Lie, is your system using stepper drivers or 'real' servo drives with
encoders?
For stepper drives I could draw up the schematics for this (using standard
logic circuits) quite easily.

Regards,

Rob
-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Making tons of money vs. the most interesting hobby ever.

[Rob Jansen]

Like Kirk I also think there is indeed a lot of value in doing it yourself.

I  just started to investigate all the opportunities but there is a real
market for people who can do both design and prototyping/production.
Last weekend I retrofitted my fully faired recumbent bicycle with a Rohloff
hub, I needed some constructions to mount the hub into the existing frame
(see http://www.myvoice.nl/quest/). There looks to be a very small market
for this because there are only 200 bicycles of the type it's designed for
but this is a nice item to show to other 'customers'.

To get from "I have a dream" to a product you do need people like us to do
design and prototype the whole thing.
I'm not sure there is big money in production but there definitely is money
in design, prototyping and handover to mass production.
Small series 10-20 pieces I can do myself but for larger series I rather
have this done by another machine shop in my neighborhood specialized in
production. They, in turn, send customers to me for design - the perfect
symbioses.

It all started with the building of a large bridge port for milling foam and
soft woods but now I am already thinking of expanding with a more robust
machine with full emulsion type of cooling for (hardened) steel and a CNC
lathe would also be well appreciated ...
There is just this one problem: what is the price of a machined part? The
aluminum plating shown on the website cost less than US$ 10 on rough
material but due to the complexity it takes a while to machine them. I
calculate about 50 Euro (about US$ 75) per hour resulting in a price of
around US$ 300 for the milled components - seems expensive for two 6x15"
pieces of 1/4" sheet plus some small parts but it looks like this price is
well accepted by the customers :-)

Someone told me you have to be schizophrenic to do this kind of work.
This comes in handy since now I am the team of scientists making the really
cool stuff :o)

Cheers,

Rob

>   I have made 5 machines so far and I am working on my sixth.
> >
> >   Of the two most economically successful parts I have made so far, one
> > costs 50 cents to buy and I use about 20 a month, the other one costs
> > about 9 dollars to buy and I use about 4 a month.
> ... snip
> >   Does anybody else have thoughts about this and where it's going?
> >
> >   Dan
>
> I needed some swaged stand-offs, so I spent some time Googling. After a
> while I found what I wanted and was just about to put in an order. Then
> I thought, I am going to have to pay for shipping and wait a week ...
> scr___ it, I'll just make them. It took way too long to do the program,
> but at the end of the day, I had more parts than could use, and now I
> can make more in no time. There is allot more cost to an item than just
> the purchase price. I think there is allot of value to being able to do
> it yourself. Too bad, it takes a team of scientists to make the really
> cool stuff.
-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Following error joint 2

[Rob Jansen]

Andy,


> could it be that my z-axis is too slow for a certain movement? i think the
> errors
> happen on g0 commands after about 40mm of movement. if there is a time
> constraint, the software could trap into a timeout and answer with a
> following
> error - but, to be hounest, this sounds ridiculous to me...


Is the error signal output of the Whale2 connected back to EMC2?
If this is true then yes, you may detect that the Z-axis is too slow for
certain movement.

What happens if you use a G1 command with the same movement?
Try to increase the feed rate until you hit the max. velocity.

If the error output is fed back to EMC2, then on a G0 move the motor will
start and use the acceleration set in your ini file to reach the max.
velocity.
Now, if the max. velocity is too high the motor cannot follow the programmed
movement andthe error output of the Whale2 is pulled low and that triggers a
following error.
Also, if the acceleration is too high you run into the same situation.

on the other hand, can some high interrupt latency cause the problem?
> i know i have one with that epia-v motherboard - but as long as i don't
> move any windows...
> i've a new (old) vga card ready, this will be my next test for the latency
> problem tomorrow.
>


Ah, I tested with an EPIA board also - If I remember well a V1 (a 1 GHz
board).
I did not have much luck with that one,  after configuring it for my basic
mill (stepper motor drive, no encoders, position or error feedback) I had
lots of following errors. This is due to the fact that the embedded video is
snooping too much time of the processor and then EMC2 is not able to produce
the step pulses fast enough.
I do not remember if I tried this board with a VGA card, I do remember
trying an ASUS M2A-VM with both the embedded VGA and a PCI-VGA card but I
had no luck with that system.

If possible try another board. In the end I discovered that my older Compaq
(Athlon XP 2600+ with 768 MB) delivers almost the same real-time response as
my brand new Asus Striker-Extreme with Core Quad 6600 with 4 GB. There is of
course a difference when you start playing doom with EMC2 running (you're
doomed if you try ;-) )
Take any, almost any, board without embedded video to create a system being
more stable than the EPIA.

Rob

P.s: Don't get me wrong. The EPIA is a very good board, I have 2 EPIA boards
running web servers with scripting, SQL server and subversion server for 7
years now and they never failed on me (except for that one time where Typo3
went berserk ), it's just not "EMC friendly".
-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Control panel vs GUI interface

[Rob Jansen]

>
> It has occurred to me that there is no reason that I couldn't use two
> keyboards - one actual and the
> second wired to push buttons. (Has anyone done this?)


Sure, there are things for sale that will do this but I just took an old USB
keyboard (one that had seen too much coolant ...) and wired the electronics
to some switches.
Remember to only use those for human inputs, never for machine inputs. But I
think that is clear already.

X,Y,Z,Spindle HOA
> Jog axis selector
> Jog rate selector
> Jog wheel


Use an MPEG-4 pendant or something similar. You really want these controls
at your fingertips when walking around your machine. Looking at the mill
from left, right or top side and always have to jogs at your fingertips.
The pendant also contains an E-stop button. Plan to have one at the pendant,
one next to the keyboard and one at the machine. I had to learn the hard way
that the E-stop was not at the right place ...

I've got a friend using a numeric keypad with labels attached to it.


> puzzling over - Keyboard covers, where to put the mouse etc..


Depends on your setup. Small desktop mills mostly have to keyboard/mouse
next to the machine.  Larger machines have it mounted such that you can use
it standing next to the machine.
Keyboard covers are OK but it has to fit and I found it's not a good thing
when you have to do typing.
Industrial keyboards are expensive so I found one of these cheap (silicone)
roll-up keyboards - it works but it needs cleaning too often.

Regards,

Rob
-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Homing

[Rob Jansen]

Jack Coats wrote:
> I heard that Mach3 has a facility to 'home' an axis that has multiple stepper 
> motors on it,
> designed for gantries with two motors on the X axis, where each leg of the 
> gantry has ahome switch.
>
> Ok, finally, the question.  How can we do that with EMC2?  A few hints how 
> would beappreciated
Gmane mailing list archives - but it took me some time to find my own 
posts again ...

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/6158/match=

was one of my posts on this subject.


During homing EMC reaches the home switch, backs off and then very 
slowly goes back to home until home is found.
You can do this in EMC (using classic ladder) but then you need 2 step 
outputs for both axis, I preferred some simple logic gates.
In simple boolean text notation I found the following solution:

home_en1 = dir OR NOT home1
home_en2 = dir OR NOT home2
step_1 = step AND home_en1
step_2 = step AND home_en2
home = ( ( home1 AND home2 ) AND NOT dir ) OR ( ( home 1 OR home2 )
AND dir )

dir is 0 in the homing direction, the home_en signals are only true as 
long as the motor is moving away from homing or (towards homing) while 
the home switch is not active.
So there are only step signals when moving away from home or when the 
switch is not activated.

The home signal (towards EMC) will only be active when both home1 and 
home2 switches are triggered when moving towards the home switched but 
when moving away from the home position it will move away until both 
switches have disengaged.

So in this way, both motors will be homed but as soon as one of the 
motors reaches its home position it will stop. EMC will continue driving 
the other motor.
When both motors are 'homed' they may actually have traveled too far (a 
bit) due to the ramp down. Now EMC will get the motors away from their 
home position (both motors) and then slowly go back until (both) motors 
are homed again.
I have forgotten how this homing sequence is called, it should be in 
section 6 of the user manual but somehow in the current manual on wiki 
this chapter got replaced by "keystick" ...

Please note that this homing sequence only works for a home position at 
the limit of the machine outside the normal working area of the mill. It 
does not work for a home position within the working area (since the 
motors will be stopped by hardware or HAL).

If someone converts this into classic ladder code, I could change my 
setup and test the classic ladder version.
It could then be placed in the wiki as a reference to others.

Regards,

Rob


-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Pissed off

[Rob Jansen]

Thank you Greg,


> but I have had some unrealistic expectations placed on me at work (my meat 
> and potatoes job) recently which I stood up against (successfully)
>   
My MPJ just told me that I may get loads of time for my hobbies (they 
call it 'resturcturing' and 'making people redundant', I call it 'big 
layoffs' and 'fire people').
I am still not sure if I should be happy or sad ;-)

> thinking you could "slap" together a machine to allow you to perform the task 
> and make some money.  While that is a commendable aspiration, with two family 
> members who work R&D, specifically in process automation and material 
> handling/quality inspection disciplines, the tool to complete the task 
> typically goes through numerous simulations and revisions before it even sees 
> it's first 'trial run'.  Rarely is a one-shot attempt even taken, let alone 
> successful unless it's the tinyest thing.
My experiences with EMC2 are the exact opposite.
I have a friend who built a machine using a commercial (hobby) 
controller. He had loads of problems and it took him months to get the 
thing to work - that mainly had to do with the hardware that came with 
the software though.

I started collecting stuff and drawing in October last year and building 
started just after christmas. I had to wait until February for the 
milling spindle to arrive but at that time everything was working 
reliably and I could even do some real milling jobs.
Main problem was financing the whole stuff so it took until May for the 
T-groove plates to arrive.

> This is only my 2 cents, and in the current economy, that certainly isn't 
> worth all that much..
>   
plus 2 more from me :-)

> And to round out my message on a positive note - THANK YOU TO EVERY VOLUNTEER 
> WHO HAS DONATED TIME AND MONEY TO THE EMC2 PROJECT AND TO EVERY MANUFACTURER 
> WHO HAS MADE AN EFFORT TO PRODUCE HARDWARE TO WORK WITH EMC2.  YOUR HARD WORK 
> IS NOT UNAPPRECIATED.
>   
Hear hear!

Thanks again to all who contribute to EMC2, being as core developers,  
maintainers of the web-stuff, mailing list and all who take the time to 
answer all our questions.
Thanks again for the perfect work you all do.

As users of EMC2, contributing to the mailing list, we are all part (if 
even a minute one) of this whole team.
It is OK to be p.. o.. with the product (being your complete setup :-) ) 
but let us try to keep this list clean and usefull.
During last 'season' I skipped a lot of emails and I am sure that some 
of those could have helped me with some little problems I still have.

Have to go now, we are leaving for a visit to a supplier in 15 minutes 
for a small hand operated mill. something tells me this machine might be 
a victim for EMC2 in the near future ...

Regards,

Rob

-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Subject and quoting please?

[Rob Jansen]

Guys,

I am definitely not a moderator but ...

I see lots of posts that have subjects not matching the content and complete
quoted emails.
Could we please try to get the subject of emails matching the content and
quote only the necessary lines of the original email.

Things are getting impossible to follow.

Regards,

Rob
-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] 2.2.7, no touch-off available after M00???

[Rob Jansen]

Hi,

I'm not sure this is related to M00, I have a similar problem on my 2.2.2
system.
At a sudden moment touch off won't work anymore.
As soon as I enter a value, the OK button is grayed out.

Rob

On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 12:21 PM, rtwas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I upgraded to 2.2.7 and noticed that I am no longer able to execute the
> touch-off menu or
> even slew the axis manually after an M00 is encountered in the g-code
> program.
>
> Is this intentional?
>
> Basically I wrote my code covering several files and labeled them
> stp0. stp1. etc.
> With stp0. use to pre-position the table for touch off. Is my modus
> operandi flawed?
> Are we not supposed to manually execute g-codes in the middle of an
> executing program?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Robert W.
>
> -
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's
> challenge
> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great
> prizes
> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
-
This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge
Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes
Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world
http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing

[Rob Jansen]

Risto,

dxf2gcode will not get you 5 axis milling
If you use Rhino 3D there is MadCAM, (link on the rhino3d.com website 
).
The German Rhino agent FILOU has some more info stating that version 4.1 
has 4 & 5 axis milling support.
This page  contains some information in 
German. "Kostenlos testen" on the right means "Free trial" ;-), a link 
to the 30 day Rhino 4.0 demo version is 3 lines below the bullet.

There are two videos on 4 and 5 axis milling. The narrator is a German 
guy but the language is English. Looks promising and I am looking at 
buying a Rhino/Penguin/Flamingo/MadCAM (totals around 2800 EUR) as soon 
as I can afford it ...
There is more software available on both Windows and Linux. Mastercam 
and EdgeCAM are examples of (expensive?) Windows software.
I am not a Linux CAD user (I stick to Embedded Linux, EMC and 
web/file/mail-servers), all my CAD is done in Windows (sorry).

Regards,

Rob


ftec wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> Testing if I'm on the list now but I also have a question.
>
> Was looking for 4 to 5 axis cnc sw for a home built cnc machine and found
> this list making me very interested.
>
> What I would like to know is if there is a way to combine emc and cad designs 
> done  with win based cad sw. If so, how?  I can export part files in IGES, 
> STL, 
> STEP, Catia, ProE and a few other formats. I have never used Linux but then
> there always must be the first time, right? 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Risto
>
>
>
> --
> SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
> The future of the web can't happen without you.  Join us at MIX09 to help
> pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at
> http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>   

--
SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
The future of the web can't happen without you.  Join us at MIX09 to help
pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing

[Rob Jansen]

Dirk wrote:
> Yes, this sounds very simple. So, maybe I have to imagine parts as if they
> are trapped in a sphere and "only" the outside has to be removed. Something
> like Michelango did: he only had to remove the marble on the outside because
> the statue was already on the inside. Sorry, can't find the exact quote.
>   

Also milling from different faces is easy: Just rotate your drawing, 
export as DXF, use something like dxf2gcode and glue the whole thing 
together with some manual G-code to rotate the workpiece to show the 
correct face to mill.
But finishing the inside of a cylinder with a conical mill is a bit 
different: you need to rotate the AB axes in such a way that the wall of 
the cylinder is in line with the angle of the conical cutter.
Milling pockets with an undercut is also not possible using Michel 
Angelo's rule since you need to remove material on the inside.

Being able to think in 3D is a must - I guess that's what Michel A. 
means: once you know how to handle 5 axes it is easy but for someone who 
does not it looks like magic :)

Regards,

Rob

--
SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada.
The future of the web can't happen without you.  Join us at MIX09 to help
pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Slow axis router

[Rob Jansen]

Aaron,

all depends on the construction of the machine.
I built a 1.5 x 2 m gantry used for foam, wood and aluminum.

Specs: Double X-axis with 25 mm linear guide rails, Y and Z using 20 mm 
rails with 2 carriages on each rail. Stepper motors are 6.4 Nm (NEMA34 
size) with stepper motor drivers using 16 micro steps, 5.6A current and 
a 42 V power supply (14 Amps) using a 1 to 1 pulley ratio on ball screws 
with 5mm pitch.

This is able to move the X axis at 2000 mm/min, Y and Z at 2200 mm/min. 
Using a 3 to 1 pulley ratio speeds up to 6000 mm/min are possible but 
the pulleys ran of the ball screws due to improper drilled holes ...
With the ball screw nuts removed I need about 6 kg force to move the 
X-axis (measured using a scale beam). Nuts are adjusted to have no play

The speed is limited due to the motor losing steps: I cannot get the 
motor moving reliable at more than 24 kHz (16 micro steps, 1.8 deg./rev 
= 455 rpm) even if the motor has nothing connected.
I still have to try other stepper drivers to see if that changes the 
max. speed.

Regards,

Rob


aaron Moore wrote:
> Hi
>
> Having built a 1.5 m x 1.5 m  CNC gantry router used for woodwork, I am
> still amazed that it works as well as it does, however I am now thinking
> that the axis should be moving a little bit faster ( I recently costed a
> job that would have taken 15 hours to cut which seems a bit excessive). 
>
> It is set to run at 15mm per second max velocity, above that speed the
> steppers start screaming and miss stepps.  I know that the screws,
> bearings and drive nuts are not that well aligned and whip about abit. I
> plan to fix that soon, but I would like to know what sort of speed I
> should aim for. Is there any one out there with a similar set up who
> could tell me what max speed they are working to.
>
> All the best for the new year
>
> Aaron 
>
>   

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] CNC 101

[Rob Jansen]

Raymond,

as you will understand from the other positive mails it is definitely 
worth the effort.
Almost any stepper driver/motor combination is possible. I am using an 
old Compaq PC, slower than 1 GHz and 512 (or 1 GB - I forgot) MB  of 
memory.
I am using stepper drivers with optical isolation on the inputs (using 
opto couplers) and the 5V to drive the opto couplers I get from a USB 
port using a cable that I cut in half (the red wire is the 5V line) and 
the signals come from the printer port (data lines).
The live CD contains a setup environment that can install Linux, 
including all applications needed, in just a few clicks and there is a 
configuration program (stepconf) to do the basic configuration of your 
setup.

If it is just for 'fun and learning' anything is possible from the 
machine side. I have plotter from Fisher Technik (this used to be the 
popular technical build-toy 'in my days') but this will of course be no 
comparison against a professional built model with linear guide rails 
and ball screw.

This is just the start. Tuning the motors to their maximum speed and 
acceleration is not an easy task to do, including limit sensors and a 
homing sensor does require some reading and testing before you'll have 
it working to your likings and if you want to compensate any back lash 
in your system you need to consult the manual or the wiki.

The manual is a real good thing to read. It contains a lot of 
information about different hardware setups that you may just skip when 
installing EMC for the first time (but maybe it is worthwhile reading at 
a later stage to get an idea of the possibilities).
To give you an idea: I spent about 8 weeks of designing and drawing in 
the evening hours (including selection of all the parts, motors, 
drivers, linear guide rails, ball screws etc). After a few days of 
building and a few hours of installing and configuring EMC this 
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRhcYF9Vfbk) was my first test.
Now, a year later, the system still runs with almost the same setup. I 
tweaked the timing of the stepper motors a bit, added a real T-grove 
table and a 4th axis but that's about it.

Meanwhile I connected the system to my local network (with internet 
gateway) making sure the system stays up-to-date using the automatic 
updates and I've added a samba share which was just a matter of running 
an install program for samba that is already included in the EMC 
distribution - something I though could be complex but after reading a 
bit in "A Practical Guide to Ubuntu Linux" by Mark G. Sobell this was 
again one of those 5 minute jobs.

In general: the more complex your setup gets, the more complex it is to 
find the correct information but following this mailing list and 
browsing the wiki reveals a lot of information. But if you know a bit 
about machine design and a bit about Linux then a machine based on 
stepper motors is easy to get started with and see some results quickly.
Running you machine and figuring out what kind of cutters, spindle 
speed, feed rate etc. to use is the big challenge (but that's true for 
every CNC stystem).
 
Have fun and watch your fingers ;-)

Rob


--
Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM)
software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to
build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local
resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and
Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] CNC 101

[Rob Jansen]

Gene Heskett asks about David Laserscanner:
> I wonder how they compensate for the camera parallax?  That would need to be 
> calibrated anew every time the camera was setup I'd think
They use a calibration chart with lots of dots. You set up a background 
with the two parts of the calibration charts in a 90 degree corner. Take 
an image with the camera and they calibrate the camera using this dotted 
pattern.
Now the scanner is calibrated to interpret this background as a square 
pattern in a 90 deg. angle.
Scanning is done with the object in front of this background and the V 
shaped lines on the background are used to calculate the laser's 
position and angle.

You can try it out and use it for free but in order to stitch up 
multiple scans into one object and create an STL file you need to buy a 
license.

I doubt the exact precision of this scanner, I am going for the 
NextEngine scanner with RapidWorks to convert scans into CAD models for 
SolidWorks.
I just sent them a few photo's of a product I need to scan to see if 
they think NextEngine can do this.

Regards,

Rob

--
Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM)
software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to
build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local
resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and
Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] EMC and auto/manual mode

[Rob Jansen]

I also have to do manual tool changes and was thinking to do this with a 
simple subroutine in my programs.
Combined with a tool-length probe which can be a simple industrial push 
button with stainless steel button (the ones I've seen are accurate 
within 0.02 mm)

   1. move up and stop spindle
   2. save current coordinate
   3. move towards the 'convenient location'
   4. present a popup box to the user telling it's time to change the tool
   5. after pressing OK move down with a probe
   6. Set this as the zero (with offset)

Do remember that in the beginning of the progam the offset from the tool 
probe towards the zero of the workpiece has to be measured.
So these are all automated procedures, as a user I only have to change 
the tool and press OK on the screen. Just make sure that the move up & 
towards convenient location are such that you do not hit the workpiece 
or vise ...

Up to now I have been doing manual tool changes using separate programs 
for each tool.
This involves manual tool allignment for each tool - something I do 
forget from time to time resulting in broken tools ...

Rob

Steve Blackmore wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:49:51 + (UTC), you wrote:
>
>
>   
>> When running jobs in Mach I often pause or stop to clear chips, move clamps,
>> look to make sure I generated the code right (love CAM but sometimes it does
>> what you tell it and not what you want), grab lunch or refreshments and 
>> perform
>> mandatory pit stops. When paused I almost always stop the spindle and 
>> sometimes
>> manually jog the machine around.
>>
>> On tool changes I move the table to a convenient location, change the tool,
>> manually touch off and reset the Z offset. For the kind of work I do its not
>> worth it for me to preset tool lenghts. If I'm paused or on a tool change I 
>> just
>> restart the spindle and resume. If I'm stopped I restart from the prior G0 
>> or G1.
>>
>> Can I do this in EMC?
>> 
>
> No :(
>
> Steve Blackmore
> --
>
> --
> Open Source Business Conference (OSBC), March 24-25, 2009, San Francisco, CA
> -OSBC tackles the biggest issue in open source: Open Sourcing the Enterprise
> -Strategies to boost innovation and cut costs with open source participation
> -Receive a $600 discount off the registration fee with the source code: SFAD
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/XcvMzF8H
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>   


--
Open Source Business Conference (OSBC), March 24-25, 2009, San Francisco, CA
-OSBC tackles the biggest issue in open source: Open Sourcing the Enterprise
-Strategies to boost innovation and cut costs with open source participation
-Receive a $600 discount off the registration fee with the source code: SFAD
http://p.sf.net/sfu/XcvMzF8H
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] using a 5i20 for stepper motor control

[Rob Jansen]

Hi,

I have an EMC2 controlled CNC mill with stepper motors but I am not too 
happy about the parallel port being used as stepper signal generator.
My current configuration is a standard one generated with the step 
configuration wizard but I am guessing the PC uses quite some time to 
calculate the appropriate timing signals for the stepper control.
The max. usable frequency reported by stepconf is 25 kHz (based on the 
latency results) and the max.frequency used to control the stepper 
drivers is 24.3 kHz.

A lot of my programs consist of 3D curves built up out of small lines 
and even with a G64 P0.1 (or larger in mm) the system never reaches the 
programed feed rate and the CPU load reaches of up to 95%.
Reading about the possibilities of the 5i20 card from Mesa I got 
wondering if this could solve part of this problem - I already tried a 
faster PC but that does not help as much as I thought.

Is it possible to use the 5i20 as stepper controller (using hostmot2) 
with EMC2 and am I correct in thinking that this relieves the PC of 
calculating all the timing signals for the stepper signals?
Even if it just solves half of my problems; using the 5i20 removes the 
dependency on parport hardware which I need to install to do the extra 
I/O that I need.

Are there any 5i20 / stepper motor users out there? and are there any 
sample HAL configurations to use as a start?
I googled around a bit but did not find what I was looking for.

Regards,

Rob

--
Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are
powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and
easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development
software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging.
Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] using a 5i20 for stepper motor control

[Rob Jansen]

Sebastian, Alex, Eric, Jon,

(did I forget anyone who responded, then I'm sorry)

Thanks for all the tips.
As Sebastian suggested I will definitely do a system analysis before 
spending money but spending 200 USD on a 10,000 EUR machine is not that 
high an investment. I will not opt for the 7i43 on the parallel port, I 
was looking at th 5i20 just to get rid of the parport which is not on 
all my mother boards. The question then is if PCI is the proper choice 
(will there also be a PCI express version of the card?).

I will also re-read the manual, but I thought the section quoted by Eric 
was only true for exact path or stop mode. The use of G64 Pxxx should 
prevent a full de-accelerate / accelerate cycle between two vectors - 
but I do vaguely remember that I also read [on this list] that EMC only 
looks ahead one vector at a time.
So testing on a sim configuration seems a good thing to do and with 
motherboards / memory sizes and PC configurations this is something that 
I can do with the 10,000 G1 segments that Jon used.

The machine will be used for prototyping / small series production. 
Speed is kind of important, amongst others I am milling large wooden 
molds that are used to create two carbon fiber parts. One mold has a 
calculated milling time (retrieved from both my G-code generator and the 
file -> properties from Axis) of 3-5 days but with current performance 
of my setup this seems to be more in the range of 2-4 weeks of real 
milling time (estimated from running a small section of the program that 
should take 1 hour).
This is for an insane hobby project but the machine also has to be put 
to commercial use.

Thanks for all the hints, these will keep me busy for another few weeks 
or so before making final decisions.

Regards,

Rob


--
Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex Builder(TM) are
powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform capabilities. Quickly and
easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the Eclipse(TM)based development
software that enables intelligent coding and step-through debugging.
Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] using a 5i20 for stepper motor control

[Rob Jansen]

Thanks,

Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> We will have PCI express versions of Anything I/O cards later this year
>   
...
> That said, I would not worry too much about PCI dissapearing, I expect 
> Motheboards with PCI to be available for at least 5 more years
That is what I would expect. But I hope my machine will last longer than 
5 years :-)
and somehow that one free PCI slot on my current mother board is already 
taken by another card ...

Regards,

Rob

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] using a 5i20 for stepper motor control

[Rob Jansen]

Roger,

> Eric,
> Personally, I think the best way to cut insanely small segments is not to
> generate them. Instead of doing a P0.1 on the machine side change your 
> tolerance
> on the CAM side. I do a lot of contouring in using VisualMill and the size of
> the G-code varies in direct relationship to the tolerance. I'm not doing high
> precision molds in a climate controlled shop so a couple of thousandths of an
> inch on contouring is usually fine. 
>   
I have this problem with the insanely small (0.1 mm) segments.
The problem is that I can not set the tolerance on the CAM side the way 
I like. I use DeskProto and DP uses a raster to 'scan' an STL model and 
create the G-code from there. There is no way to tell DP to follow lines 
in the Z-height with a certain precision, it just follows lines in the X 
direction with a given step size in the Y direction to derermine the 
Z-height at each point.

If only they would have made it such that I could create lines in the 
X-direction and tell DP to follow the contour with a given precision 
that would have been great. DP has different algorithms for different 
purposes but just not the one that I mostly use. I already thought of 
writing my own software for this special case and maybe I should just try.

Regards,

Rob

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Soft/hard limits & homing (was: Re: emc2.3.0beta2)

[Rob Jansen]

Steve Blackmore wrote:
> Softlimits? I don't use them. I have limit switches, I don't use them
> either, I think since the eighties I've hit them twice. They are simply
> there to stop the machine ramming the end of the ballscrews ;)
>
> I don't directly use "machine coordinates" either, they are meaningless
> to me as an operator. I, and many others, are only interested in work
> coordinates. What the Controller thinks they are is irrelevant to me, as
> long as I've told it where the work zero's are that should be
> sufficient.
>
> All I want is to simply tell it where X0 Y0 Z0 are in relation to mill
> stock,
Don't confuse limit and home switches. Limit switches prevent damage to 
the machine (but should never be hit in real life).
Home switches determine where your machine's zero location is.

Machine coordinates are very useful for me. From my machine's zero I 
know exactly where the top-left position of my mill stock is, the center 
of my 4th axis and the left bottom position of the bottom left stop for 
large foam/wood blocks. And machine coordinates also determine where the 
tool changer is located.
I plan to add more mill stocks so I can link multiple programs to make 
multiple parts without having to stop in between to insert a new blank 
(and do homing).

So machine coordinates are very useful. One company I know does a lot of 
production of the same parts and the rely fully on machine coordinates 
in order to know where the blanks are located on their palleting system. 
They start of with a large block of aluminum in which a number of plugs 
for the palleting system are mounted, then they mill one side of the 
block, mount the half finished workpiece in a countermold (which is 
placed on the palleting system) and mill the other side.
Here the zero point of the workpiece is solely determined by using 
machine coordinates and making multiple of the same parts would be 
hardly possible without it.

Regards,

Rob

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] syncing two motors to one axis

[Rob Jansen]

Len,

steppers makes this problem very easy and it has indeed been discussed 
before.
Searching on the term "two motors" I was able to retrieve a number of my 
own posts about this.

http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/8147/match=two+motors
 
is an older post describing a possible solution in words.
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user/10276/match=two+motors
 
is a later posting with some boolean algebra (not HAL though - I decided 
to use standard 74LSxx gate logic).

There are more mail about this. Use 
http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.distributions.emc.user to search the 
archives - it's nicer than the sourceforge archives ...

Regards,

Rob

Len Shelton wrote:
> So, are you saying that it can't presently be done because no one has
> written the hal components to do it?
>
> I have searched the archives and found very little.
>
> FWIW - this machine uses steppers and no encoders.
>   

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Bug in stepconf?

[Rob Jansen]

Peter,

> this is mainly to the EMC developers.
I am not an EMC developer. I am a challenging user, just like most of us :-)

> Seriously: After all my efforts I am inclined to exclude all other causes 
> of the misbehaviour than stepconf. Is it really true that nobody ever 
> reported problems with the "test axis" function of stepconf? Maybe it has 
> been fixed in 2.3? I have the impression that it must be a minor bug when 
> counting the pulses because there is a connection with the microstep feature.
>   
Yes, I reported on this list that the step rates that were being used by 
the "test axis" function in stepconf is different from the step rate 
being used by Axis. I am not sure if this has been picked up. I did not 
look at the exact pulse width and pauses between the pulses. I could do 
this next week since I do have a logic analyzer that can be hooked up to 
my PC.
You should however be aware that stepconf does indeed (as far as I know) 
not acknowledge any manual changed in the HAL files.
> I am aware that expositions now have caught all the attention of the gang. 
> But when NAMES and EMC expo are over, please someone would have a look at 
> this?
>   
I almost showed up in Names (Namur) in Belgium. It took me some time to 
realize this was a TLA and not the name of the city
> Thank you for the learning
Wow, with your wife almost throwing out all your stuff that's very nice 
to write ;-)
I will also start learning again. Somehow my stepper motors stall 
already at low speeds whereas I think they should be able to run faster 
- improper timing could be an explanation for this.

Regards,

Rob

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Users Locations

[Rob Jansen]

Great idea.
Might be nice for regional gatherings.
Time to point to http://www.frappr.com/emc2 again, there's a nice map of
EMC2 users - but are there really only two users in the whole of the
Netherlands? We're not that small a country !?

Cheers,

Rob

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Jim Combs  wrote:

> What about posting a section / page on the WIKI site of users who would not
> mind having someone contact them for a visit now and then.
>
> It could be sectioned off by country, region or state.
>
> Jim Combs - Lexington, Ky
>
>
--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Users Locations

[Rob Jansen]

Alex,
> I think the webpage could be a better place than the wiki.
> If there are enough people out there who are ok with doing this, we can add 
> a community-module to linuxcnc.org, so every registered user can set up a 
> profile with pictures, links, personal information, etc.
> Let me know if there are people who would consider doing such a thing, and 
> based on the feedback we'll be looking if it's worth the trouble ;)
>   
I will definitely add my credentials.
Question is who else will. The frappr map has been there for some time 
but there is only a very limited amount of users on the map.

Rob

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Latency Test Result Questions

[Rob Jansen]

Don,

good thing you kept the .ini and .hal files - reminds me to make backups 
once again cause I think I changed the files since the last backup ...
I copied my working config for the mill to 3 different machines (one 
active, one backup and one to play with at home) by comparing a setup 
generated by stepconf and changing the proper timing and addresses.
Still, remember that the jitter, although it is an exact number, depends 
on what you do with the machine at a given moment and therefor is just a 
guidance number.
At least this is how I see it: start the test, do all kinds of weird 
stuff that keeps the computer busy and get the worst number. In that 
case you will most likely never hit the edge in real life.
But then, when the mill is running I never do all this weird stuff. This 
is a production machine and  when it runs I do not touch mouse or keyboard.

A 10% difference in jitter value is not that big. I've seen differences 
like this on different occasions that I ran the jitter test (on the same 
machine with the same software - no updates in between).

This does bring up a new question: Can (will) the jitter test report 
different values after a software update? Since I configured my machine 
more than one year ago there have been some updates (I'd even say my 
EMC2 PC is more up to date than any of my windows machines).

Rob - almost ashamed to admit still using Wingoof XP ;-)

don wilson wrote:
> My box recently went down, and I had to re-install everything. I thought it 
> would be a good idea to run another latency test after this fresh install.
>
> My max Jitter came out to 20,602, while my previous max jitter was 18,592.
>
> I have looked in the .ini and .hal file for a location where I can just put 
> the new number in but have not found one. When using stepconfig, does it just 
> take the jitter and calculate numbers based of of it.
>   


--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] using a 5i20 for stepper motor control

[Rob Jansen]

Matt,

I finally found some time to look at your files.
Thanks, the files look great - well documented so this should get me 
going without any problems.

I just ordered 2 5i20 boards so I have a spare or a second system to 
play with. This will also give me enough I/O to add all the extra I/O I 
wanted (all separate limit switches, home switches, probe input, E-stop 
input, full spindle control, MPG pendant, coolant control and  motor 
driver feedback)
Electronics hardware is cheap compared to milling cutters. I just ruined 
a 10mm end mill with a cutting length of 100mm and a flute of 200mm used 
especially for milling foam. A 240 dollar piece of carbide converted 
into 12 pieces of worthless junk due to a 0,10 dollar screw that came 
loose ...
Position feedback encoders on the axes should have kept the value of the 
carbide at a proper level :-}

Regards,

Rob

> Sorry I'm so late noticing this e-mail! Here are the config files:
> http://www.mattshaver.com/emc2/configs/smithy/
>
> You'll be most interested in 1240.* and 622.*. the 924.* files are for a
> lathe.

--
This SF.net email is sponsored by:
High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment.
Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] syncing two motors to one axis

[Rob Jansen]

Len,

you give me too much credits.
I don't know that much about the HAL and to be honest, I am just able to
understand the HAL files that I got as samples.
Did this all with a bit of standard logic gates since my PC does not have
enough I/O to capture all the signals.
But my 5i20 and 7i43 Mesa cards are about to arrive  so next week I should
be able to start converting one system from 2.2 to 2.3 and start
implementing all these extras in HAL.

I'll post my progress over the next few weeks; I've leeched enough from this
list. Time to contribute ;-)

Cheers,

Rob

Jon and Rob,
>
> You guys obviously know a lot more about the inner working of HAL than I. I
> am still no closer to understanding what lines of code I need to put into
> my
> HAL file.
>
> Can you please translate this simple boolean text notation...
>
--
This SF.net email is sponsored by:
High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment.
Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Users Locations

[Rob Jansen]

I have to agree with Aaron, a job well done!
I think we are the lucky guys. User density in England and the 
Netherlands is higher (per square mile) than in he US :-)
There are 408 registered users on linuxcnc.org but still less than 60 
users on the map so there is still some work to do - for the users of 
linuxcnc that is.

Cheers,

Rob


aaron moore wrote:
> Hi EMC Guys
> Really like the map, many thanks to to all those responsible. 
> However I do feel a bit out on a limb down in Cornwall UK,but  if anyone
> comes for a seaside holiday do drop in ;
> Cheers
> Aaron
>
>   

--
This SF.net email is sponsored by:
High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment.
Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] What's coming in manufacturing

[Rob Jansen]

Hear hear,

> These little home shops don't have to pay employee 
> healthcare nor pay corporate taxes.  They can likely pay the lower  
> capital gains taxes on what their robots, cnc mills and Fab machines build.
>   
Things are not that different on the other side of the world (the 
Netherlands).

> Some guy in his back yard may well cast the 
> parts in his back yard for me out of scrap metals.
Well, there are all kinds of environmental issues on this. I do remember 
that a steel construction company in my old town used to produce a lot 
of welding fumes but nowadays due to law they have to filter all their 
welding fumes (so the smell of burning brakes really were burning brakes 
last week ...)
> These same people will not have to drive 20 miles to work everyday 
> and may not wear out a car every ten years making that trip.  Mass 
> transit may be an idea that has come and is now going.
>   
During the industrial age we noticed that a lot of the small companies 
where vanishing and people started working at large companies. In the 
beginning these persons got housing nearby there workplace but meanwhile 
this changed and now the Dutch government finds it normal to have your 
work on an hour travel distance from home.
Rush hour, traffic jams and air pollution are partly because of this.
Things are changing; there is a tendency to return to our roots. Start 
your own small company or work for smaller companies in the area - as it 
used to be years ago.
Thanks to the current financial crisis I am now getting a chance to 
contribute to this change; ST-Ericsson was kind enough to 'set me free' 
with a bit of capital to invest into my own future but without EMC2, and 
the machine I built, I would never have made this step.
> I am presently repairing microscopes but will soon be making medical 
> parts for hospital beds, Xray machines etc.  These will go freely all 
> over the world where they are sorely needed and a big part of this will 
> be, because of EMC 2.
In my case EMC2 is an enabler to get started. I am not starting a 
production company - there are some CNC companies in my area able to do 
a better job (in larger series) than I am. I am doing the design and 
part of the programming and EMC2 is used to control my large gantry 
style machine to do some prototyping only. Still an amazing job, the 
last two weeks the machine was running 24/7 to create some very large 
foam plugs and MDF molds.

> I have also decided that some of this 
> money needs to go to the writing of software like Emc 2 so I plan to 
> donate some of what I make to help develop.
Sounds a good thing. There is nothing about donations on the cnclinux 
website (actually there is; some python scripts state you must donate to 
a local food bank :-) ) except for donating your knowledge and sharing 
your experiences with other users.

I agree with Kirk Wallace that bringing money into the game is a tricky 
thing. It will change the rules we play by.

My donations go to the local food bank and to 'customers' who are 
starting up their own small company and cannot (yet) afford the 
investment in the sometimes expensive prototypes. Also the enviroment is 
a goal I am donating to in a direct way: almost all my transportation is 
done by bike or via public transportation and when possible I use 
materials that are recyclable.

While the EMC2 team thinks about accepting donations, I will continue 
donating to our local community and the environment.
One other thing we can do to donate is to enlist ourselves as an EMC2 
user on www.linuxcnc.org by creating a user account and make yourself 
visible on the user map. On one side it is an acknowledgement to the 
EMC2 developers that their system is being used world wide, on the other 
side it is nice to see for ourselves where other users are located.

Regards,

Rob

--
This SF.net email is sponsored by:
High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment.
Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] converting parport to 5i20 config -> joint following error

[Rob Jansen]

I started converting my EMC2 mill from parport to the Mesa 5i20 hostmot2 
stepper and got stuck with a problem.

The parport configuration works fine but the hm2_stepper config is 
having problems.
I keep getting "joint xxx following errors". I checked the docs but 
cannot explain this: ferror, min_ferror, max_velocity and 
mac_acceleration are the same in both cases and - although not necessary 
- I added the base_period to the hostmot2 configs.

A second problem (maybe related ?) is seen during a manual jog. When an 
axis stops it keeps humming and the digital readout flips between the 
current position (e.g 2.001) and adjacent positions (e.g. 2.002).

This was all done on 2.3.0~beta2 with the hm2_stepper config files from 
that release.

Any ideas? All config files are available at 
http://www.myvoice.nl/freesmachine/configs/

Regards,

Rob


--
This SF.net email is sponsored by:
High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment.
Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] converting parport to 5i20 config -> joint following error

[Rob Jansen]

Sebastian,

> Another brave hm2 testing volunteer!  Welcome!
Yep, slow system, problems with parport and not enough I/O made me buy 
two 5i20 cards (and a 7i43) card. One 5i20 for the main system, one as a 
backup/second system at home and the 7i43 to play around with and try 
some FPGA programming.

I set up a 'new' system with EMC2 (Ubuntu 8.0.4 LTS release) from the 
live CD, updated this to 2.3.0~beta2 and started to play around with it. 
Both with my existing parport and with the new hm2 config.
In my situation (milling a curved surface with a radius around 30 cm in 
all 1mm long line pieces) the hm2 config is 10% faster than the parport one.

> One problem with the configs you linked below is that 
> [TRAJ]MAX_LINEAR_VELOCITY is greater than [AXIS_?]MAX_VELOCITY.  That 
> means the hm2 stepgen will fall behind where the trajectory planner 
> wants it to be, leading to following errors if it gets too bad.
>   
This did the trick. I changed/added the [TRAJ] parameters and now even 
tort.ngc works almost perfectly!
Almost ... the first time I start EMC it still gives a joint following 
error on axis 0 but if I quit and restart it's OK.
There is still a lot to do in cleaning up the configs and making sure 
that all my other I/O gets in there but this is a promising start.
> The humming and dithering across the setpoint is a known bug in 
> 2.3.0~beta2, it's been fixed in CVS and will be in the next release.
>   
I could not resist; 30 to 45 minutes of downloading and compiling and I 
have the trunk running. Humming and dithering is fixed.
Still works almost perfect.
One very small thing is that the splash screen reports 2.4.0~pre and the 
title bar of axis 2.3.0~beta1 but I think I can live with that ;-)


Thanks,

Rob

--
This SF.net email is sponsored by:
High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment.
Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] compile emc2 in Glade or eclipse

[Rob Jansen]

Duc,

I have to agree with Jeff.
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&id=Installing_EMC2&revision=146
describes in good detail what to do to install EMC (from the Live CD), get
the sources and the tools and compile everything.

The EMC team did a real good job on this: I installed EMC on a new system,
downloaded all the sources and tools and compiled the stuff from source. I
suggest to start from the command line compile and then try to add Eclipse.

Good luck and let us know the progress,

Rob


On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Jeff Epler  wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 10:27:53PM -0400, An Pham Duc wrote:
> > I am a beginner in linux programming. Please tell me how to use the
> compiler
> > such as Glade or Eclipse to compile emc2 source.
>
> emc2 compiles with configure and make as shown in our documentation.
> You should read the documentation of your preferred environment to find
> out how to have it execute those commands.
>
> If you determine specific steps for your preferred environment, please
> document them for others on our wiki.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> --
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Hostmot2 - stepper signal invert

[Rob Jansen]

Hi,

is it possible to invert the DIR signal of the stepgen output of the 
Mesa 5i20 board?
On my old (parport) config I had the DIR signal inverted so I was 
looking for a similar option on the hostmot configuration.

Otherwise I'd have to open the controller-box to change one of the 
phases of each of the motors.

Rob

--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 - stepper signal invert

[Rob Jansen]

Thanks,

this works - I thought that only worked on standard output lines - not on
special function pins.
Sometimes I am thinking too complex...

Meanwhile I also added spindle control with a PWM output. I think the docs
are a bit outdated (or I just found the wrong ones).Some docs tell me the to
use dac.0.value (where PWMs are used to create DACs), another one mentions
pwmgen (but then use hm5i20 as a board type prefix whereas hostmot2 uses
hm2_5i20 as boardname. Nothing which cannot be fixed with a bit of logical
thinking.

Only thing to do now is to build a proper filter to get a linear analog
output - and publish my configs of course.

Cheers,
Rob

On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 6:56 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:


> When you start emc2 and it loads the hostmot2 driver modules, it logs
> (in the syslog) the connector/pin and "IO numbers" it's using.  It'll
> look something like this:
>
> IO Pin 048 (P4-01): Stepgen #0, pin Step (Output)
> IO Pin 049 (P4-03): Stepgen #0, pin Dir (Output)
>
>  From this you can take the IO pin number for your Dir signal (049 in
> this example) and invert the signal on that pin with a HAL command like
> this:
>
> setp hm2_5i20.0.gpio.049.invert_output 1
>
--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Incorporation & Donation [Was: Re: What's coming in manufacturing]

[Rob Jansen]

I would not mind saying thank you to the developers or the volunteers at the
shows by buying them a beer, lunch or maybe even some hardware to play with.
We do have nice beers in the Netherlands ;-)

Cheers,

Rob

On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 7:36 PM, Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

>   After I win the lottery I will pay people to develop EMC2. :) Talk
> about some focused development.
>
> thanks
> Stuart
>
>
--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Hostmot2 - stepper signal invert

[Rob Jansen]

On Mon, Apr 19, 2004 at 3:33 PM, John Thornton  wrote:

> I've added a bit to the manual on this after reading this...
>
> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/devel/html//drivers_hostmot2.html
>
> Heck it even makes sense to me now :) I think...
>

It even makes sense to me :-)
Most of this i read on different pages - and as comments in a source file in
src/hal/drivers.

One small typo: in the encoders - parameters section the first parameter is
.couner-mode

Small update from my side: all on the top of the hm2_stepper.hal files there
is a comments section with links to the docs pages on cnclinux - I should
have read the full file before starting my trial-on-error additions ...
PWM spindle control is working but only linear between 10 and 100% but that
I can fix in the spindle's VFD.

I am now adding limit/home switches and probe. I plan to add the ini and hal
files to a web-pages with links to explain the inner working and parameter
settings.

Cheers,

Rob
--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Help configuring hostmot2 stepper system

[Rob Jansen]

Hi,

the past week(s) I have been working on getting  my hostmot2 system 
running with the Mesa 5i20 card and stepper motors.
Up to a certain point this is a success. But there still is this problem 
with joint following errors - whatever I try I keep having joint 
following errors.

I tried different values for all kinds of parameters but things only 
seem to work reliable when I put in extreme high numbers for the 
MAX_ACCEL values (1000 instead of the wanted 100). Then I do not see any 
joint following errors but the abrupt start/stop of the machine is not 
good for the mechanics...

The parport configuration on the same machine runs perfectly well with 
MAX_VELOCITY=25 and MAX_ACCELERATION=100 (mm/s) but the hostmo2 
configuration keeps having problems.
I tried lots of different timing where BASE_PERIOD,SERVO_PERIOD and 
TRAJ_PERIOD are small, larger, different values or the same but nothing 
seems to help.

I am getting kind of desperate. With the 5i20 hostmot2 configuration 
things only are working as long as I keep my jog under ~400 mm/min as 
soon as I go higher (and up to the max 1500 mm/min) the joint following 
error appears on any of the axis as soon as I jog by repeated presses of 
the keyboard jogs quickly after each other.

What causes this joint following error and how to fix it?

Regards,

Rob

--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Help configuring hostmot2 stepper system

[Rob Jansen]

forgot a link to my configs: http://www.myvoice.nl/freesmachine/configs/

The "elan" config is the old parport config, hm2-stepper the hostmot2 
stepper motor config.

Rob

--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Help configuring hostmot2 stepper system

[Rob Jansen]

Alex Joni wrote:
> You didn't say what emc2 version you're using.
> hm2-stepper has been reworked for 2.3.0, so you might have better success 
> with that.
>   
Yes, I am using 2.3.0. The version I compiled from CVS end of last week 
so the one without the humming and dithering in the motors.
> * you can run the hm2 stepgen with the same limit as emc2 (this has caused 
> some issues with jogging, where the machine accelerates at max_accel
> * you can run the hm2 stepgen with some headroom on accel (setp 
> m5i20.0.stepgen.0.max_accel [AXIS_0]STEPGEN_MAXACCEL <- or something like 
> that).
I got thinking about this when I walked home last night from my toolshop 
(even before reading the tips I got).
Currently I have my  m5i20.00.stepgen.0.maxaccel etc. settings all the 
same as the AXIS_0[MAX_ACCELERATION] setting in the ini file.

I may have missed the part in the documentation where it is explained 
that the values from the AXIS setting sections in the ini file are used 
by the EMC trajectory planner and the m5i20.00.stepgen.0.maxaccel values 
are used by the stepgen controller in the FPGA. If there is a timing 
difference between the two, EMC could trip the joint following error 
when the 5i20 lags behing. This is explained in the servo section but 
not mentioned for steppers - and I now got to the point where I 
understand that the hostmot2 steppers are fully controlled by the 
stepgen controllers in the FPGA and act like a servo system towards EMC.
I was tempting to walk back and try but at that time is was 11 pm. Now 
it is about 5:30 am and I still have to do some homework for a course I 
am having this week ...
So next thing to do is to set the m5i20.00.stepgen.0.maxaccel/maxvel a 
bit bigger and see what happens.

Thanks,

Rob

--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Help configuring hostmot2 stepper system

[Rob Jansen]

Sebastian,

Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> Some other thoughts on the hm2-stepper config you linked in an earlier 
> email:
>
> You dont need a BASE_PERIOD for hostmot2 - the base thread is in the FPGA.
>
> Your SERVO and TRAJ periods are both 100,000 ns, which is pretty 
> aggressive, 1,000,000 ns is more typical.  But if this works for you, great!
>   
I know, you mentioned the BASE_PERIOD before. I have been playing around 
a lot with these timings.
I had the SERVO and TRAJ periods set to different values; all the same 
at 100,000 up to 2,000,000 or at different values (BASE < SERVO < TRAJ) 
as suggested by the manual and with/without the BASE_PERIOD.
> For AXIS_0, your steplen and stepspace are both 2500 ns, so your max 
> step rate is 200 K steps/second.  Your scale is 640 steps/inch.  This 
> gives a max speed of 200K/640 = 312.5 inches/second.  Wow.  But you're 
> specifying an [AXIS_0]MAX_VELOCITY of only 25...  Something's not adding 
> up there.  I didnt check the other axes.
I wish that were true. The speed is in mm, not inches.
The steplen and stepspace values are the max. values for the stepper 
controllers (400 kHz max. step frequency was given in the specs, I set 
my system to use 200 kHz max). These are the hardware limitations of the 
stepper controllers.
MAX_VELOCITY is determined by the stepper motors which is set to 25 
mm/sec (or 1.5 m/min) for XYZ axes. This is how I think the files should 
be set up: the stepspace/len values specifying the driver's limitations 
and the MAX_VELOCITY specifying the motor/mechanics speed.
I am thinking of buying new motors/drivers that are able to run at 
higher speeds but with a gantry of about 60 kilos these will never reach 
the max 20 m/s (X travel is < 2 meters).

Thanks,

Rob


--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Help configuring hostmot2 stepper system

[Rob Jansen]

Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> Matt Shaver wrote:
>   
> ...
>   
> Are you running with the hm2 stepgen's maxvel and maxaccel 5% higher 
> than the TP's [AXIS_?]MAX*, and still getting following errors?
>   
I changed the hm2 stepgen and maxvel to values that are a bit higher 
than the AXIS_ values - this works perfectly!
Might be worth adding this to the manual, otherwise I might be seen as 
an hm2 guru :-)

Thanks,

Rob

--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Help configuring hostmot2 stepper system

[Rob Jansen]

Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
> I'm glad that worked :-)
> I'm hoping that i'll get stepgen maxaccel=0 working soonish, then we'll 
> make that the default and the user will just set [AXIS] stuff correctly 
> and things'll work.
>   
Just let me know when it's done. I'd be happy to cvs the new sources and 
test this.

Rob

--
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and 
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today. 
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] management of limit switches

[Rob Jansen]

Robert,

as also written by others, the 'override limits' button on the (Axis) 
user interface allow you to back of from the limits.
But in general, the limit switches should be placed at such a location 
that these are never hit during normal operation.

On my machine the travel of the Y axis (that is what EMC will run as max 
limits while jogging or executing G-code) is 0 .. 1000 mm.
My limit switches are placed at -5 and 1005 and are placed such that EMC 
stops the motors before hitting the physical limits.

The lower limit switch also acts as a home switch (HOME_OFFSET = -5) 
with OVERRIDE_LIMITS = y this allows me to use the limit switch as a 
home switch also.
I set my home to 20, just to be sure that I am within the allowable 
(software) limits.
Now when I home the Y axis, the spindle moved forward until it reaches 
the limit switch and it then backs off and slowly searches the switch again.
This is where my HOME_OFFSET is so Y == -5.
After this the spindle is moved to Y == 20.

Now, during operation the limit switches will never be reached. Hitting 
one of the limit switches mean that something went terribly wrong and 
the spindle is not where EMC thinks it is. The only thing to do now (for 
EMC) is to stop the machine and wait for the user to override the limits 
and start again (home location is lost).

Regards,

Rob

robert melville wrote:
> Suppose I am running my XY-table in the positive
> X direction and I hit the X axis limit switch. I would like EMC2
> to remember that I hit the limit while slewing positive in X and
> *only* disable further travel in the positive X direction. Movement/jogging
> in negative X would be allowed so that I could jog the
> table off of the limit.
--
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial
Check out the new simplified licensign option that enables unlimited
royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing 
server and web deployment.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 & C22 pendant

[Rob Jansen]

Jon,

same question as Gene. Pix would be nice.

I was thinking of buying one from stappenmotor.nl, they are charging 41 
EUR ex. VAT for a 60mm encoder. I did not even think about one-handed 
operation, sound very usefull though.
With a custom made (3D printed) housing from shapeways this will look as 
good (or better) as the mpg4 but with all the knobs and buttons at the 
right place for me.

Regards,

Rob


Links:

http://www.stappenmotor.nl/Steppermotor/incremental%20encoders/rotary%20incremental%20encoder/rotary%20encoders.htm
http://www.shapeways.com/

Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 28 April 2009, Jon Elson wrote:
>   
>> Rainer Schmidt wrote:
>> 
>> I made my own jog pendants for both my Bridgeport and minimill.  I
>> ...
>> enable button and an estop button.  I put those buttons where I can work
>> them one-handed, while wrapping my thumb around to move the jog dial.
>> Very convenient!
>>
>> Jon
>> 
>
> Got links to pix, Jon?
>
>   

--
Register Now & Save for Velocity, the Web Performance & Operations 
Conference from O'Reilly Media. Velocity features a full day of 
expert-led, hands-on workshops and two days of sessions from industry 
leaders in dedicated Performance & Operations tracks. Use code vel09scf 
and Save an extra 15% before 5/3. http://p.sf.net/sfu/velocityconf
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Writeup on the CNC4PC MPG6 & C22 pendant

[Rob Jansen]

Rainer Schmidt wrote:
> I just bought one from ebay for $15. A Logitech RumblePad... Probably
> it gives force feedback when you run the bit into a fixture... lol
> Rainer
>   
But probably the fixture will be dented- much like the car is dented 
when you bang your head on the hood afterwards;-)
Rather than fumble around with a joypad I would buy a keyboard and use 
those electronics together with some good keys.
For almost the same price you then have an industrial looking keypad 
controller.

Or ... use a USB numeric keypad - you may have to reprogram some of the 
keys.

Rob

--
Register Now & Save for Velocity, the Web Performance & Operations 
Conference from O'Reilly Media. Velocity features a full day of 
expert-led, hands-on workshops and two days of sessions from industry 
leaders in dedicated Performance & Operations tracks. Use code vel09scf 
and Save an extra 15% before 5/3. http://p.sf.net/sfu/velocityconf
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Touch off / workpiece home coordinate

[Rob Jansen]

I'm lost.
I thought that the touch-off feature was for setting the workpiece home 
position.
So I search for the side of my workpiece with one of these LED feelers 
("kantentaster" in Dutch, don't know the English term) and perform a 
touch-off with 5mm. I thought this should set my coordinate (X or Y) at 
-5, but i get real strange results.

After homing my machine, giving machine coordinates, how do I manually 
set the home coordinates of my workpiece to 0,0,0 ?

Currently I search the sides of my workpiece and do a G92 X -5 / G92 Y 
-5 but that's not really a good and solid way to work.

Regards,

Rob

--
Register Now & Save for Velocity, the Web Performance & Operations 
Conference from O'Reilly Media. Velocity features a full day of 
expert-led, hands-on workshops and two days of sessions from industry 
leaders in dedicated Performance & Operations tracks. Use code vel09scf 
and Save an extra 15% before 5/3. http://p.sf.net/sfu/velocityconf
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Touch off / workpiece home coordinate

[Rob Jansen]

Tom,

The G53 command results in the following error:

interp_error: Can use only G5.2 or G5.3 after G5.2

Is this a bug? - There is no G5.2 or G5.3, only a G53 and the manual does
not mention any dependencies on G53.

I also read the information on G92 - it sets global offsets and affects all
coordinate systems. That's why I had problems understanding the touch off
...

G53 not working is too bad, but for now I'll use coordinate system 1 (G54)
as absolute system. That still gives me 8 fixtures to define which should be
just enough ;-)

Regards,

Rob


On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:07 PM, Tom  wrote:

> In MDI:
>
>  Move to the machine origin. G53 G0 X0Y0Z0 (A0B0C0)
>
>  Clear the G92 coordinate offset.G92.1
>
>  Use the G54 coordinate system.  G54
>
>  Set the G54 coordinate system to be identical to the machine  coordinate
> system.G10 L2 P1 X0Y0Z0 (A0B0C0)
>
> (watch the screen (in Axis) when you do this and you'll see the work
> offsets
> move to the machine home position.)
>
>  Turn off tool offsets.   G49
>
>  Turn on Relative coordinate display from the menu
>
--
Register Now & Save for Velocity, the Web Performance & Operations 
Conference from O'Reilly Media. Velocity features a full day of 
expert-led, hands-on workshops and two days of sessions from industry 
leaders in dedicated Performance & Operations tracks. Use code vel09scf 
and Save an extra 15% before 5/3. http://p.sf.net/sfu/velocityconf
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Touch off / workpiece home coordinate

[Rob Jansen]

Chris,

I downloaded a version from cvs about two weeks ago - in the speed of 
EMC development this indeed is 'a while back' :-)
Based on your mail I did a cvs update / compile and now G53 works.

Regards,

Rob


Chris Radek wrote:
> On Fri, May 01, 2009 at 09:39:07AM +0200, Rob Jansen wrote:
>   
>> Tom,
>>
>> The G53 command results in the following error:
>>
>> interp_error: Can use only G5.2 or G5.3 after G5.2
>> 
>
> This was a bug in TRUNK but I fixed it a while back.  What version
> are you running?
>
>
>   

--
Register Now & Save for Velocity, the Web Performance & Operations 
Conference from O'Reilly Media. Velocity features a full day of 
expert-led, hands-on workshops and two days of sessions from industry 
leaders in dedicated Performance & Operations tracks. Use code vel09scf 
and Save an extra 15% before 5/3. http://p.sf.net/sfu/velocityconf
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] unshielded cable

[Rob Jansen]

Doug,

I've seen the responses from other stating it's "kind of OK as long as 
you watch out".
Well, I can tell you it's not OK.

Use the cable for anything but steppers, servos, encoders, limit or home 
switches etc.
I have seen problems even when the spindle's VFD signals and stepper 
cables were all shielded - that's proper shielded Olflex cables 
especially made for machine controls - and things like unwanted limit 
switch triggers or steppers 'walking away' are not uncommon and very 
hard to fix once you have everything boxed and ready to run.

Just last week I had some problems when I used an unshielded cable 
directly connected to my Mesa 5i20 board to the E-stop. This was a quick 
hack to see if I could use EMC's E-stop input. When the spindle started 
running, at specific speeds, the steppers started rattling randomly.
A friend of me bought a commercial (hobby type) CNC controller and he 
had lots of problems in this same direction - in the end he replaced all 
his cables and fitted opto couplers on all the I/O lines - now his 
problems are gone.

Regards,

Rob



Douglas Pollard wrote:
> I bought some cable to run stepper motors off of.  I was told it was 
> shielded.  It is not.  If I try to use this am I going to have problems 
> caused by stray signals  or static?  Is it likely to be alright or am I 
> looking for trouble??
>  Doug
>
>   

--
Register Now & Save for Velocity, the Web Performance & Operations 
Conference from O'Reilly Media. Velocity features a full day of 
expert-led, hands-on workshops and two days of sessions from industry 
leaders in dedicated Performance & Operations tracks. Use code vel09scf 
and Save an extra 15% before 5/3. http://p.sf.net/sfu/velocityconf
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] unshielded cable

[Rob Jansen]

Gene,
> Can you describe this Olflex cable please?
>   
http://www.olflex.com.mx/clientes/estructura/img/administrador/archivos/olflex_classic_110_cy.pdf
I use the 110 CY cable, the standard 110 cables has no shielding. The 21 
AWG cable is perfect for signals, I use the 18 AWG for the stepper 
motors and 16 AWG for the spindle.
This cable is number coded - all black with white numbers that are 
perfectly visible.
> This I would do, if I ever have the problem.  I have also probed for contour 
> several times and have not had any errors of more than a thou or two in the 
> data.  This using the sliding tube opto-interrupter device one of the guys 
> here gave me a link to when I asked about that a couple of years ago.  Home-
> made of course. :)
>   
Any pics ?
> To repeat, all grounds are done in 'star' fashion with the motor drivers 
> being 
> at the center of the star, and no cable shielding connected except at the 
> star.
Good work! That is the only way to prevent problems in grounding.
For those who don't have a background in electrics/electronics: always 
ground cables on one side only. Grounding cables on both sides will 
introduce ground loops that act as coils - this may result in a bigger 
problem than the original one :-}

Regards,

Rob

--
Register Now & Save for Velocity, the Web Performance & Operations 
Conference from O'Reilly Media. Velocity features a full day of 
expert-led, hands-on workshops and two days of sessions from industry 
leaders in dedicated Performance & Operations tracks. Use code vel09scf 
and Save an extra 15% before 5/3. http://p.sf.net/sfu/velocityconf
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Probe design - was Re: unshielded cable

[Rob Jansen]

Gene Heskett wrote:
> They are now included at
>  as 'probe-*.jpg'
>
> These opto's I used have about a .150" gap.  It holds the thing together when 
> assembled.  I don't recall now if they have schmidt outputs or not.
>   
Nice probe.
I made one using the Renishaw patent using three carbide pins resting on 
steel balls. If one of the pins is lifted, the circle is broken and the 
switch (de)activates. My webpage 
(http://www.myvoice.nl/freesmachine/nulsteller.php?lang=en) shows it 
being developed as a tool-length probe but mounting it upside down in 
the spindle makes it a touch probe - only needs a different bottom plate 
(becoming the top-plate with a pin to fit in the collet) and a probe tip 
instead of a flat probing surface.
The design is a bit complex but the nice thing is that it works great on 
curved surfaces as well.

Regards,

Rob


--
The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your
production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to
Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700
Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image 
processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Toolchanger howto/tutorial

[Rob Jansen]

Erik Christiansen wrote:
> While I don't have my feet properly wet yet with this CNC stuff, it
>   
when leaning how to swim, don't your feet get wet first ? :-)
> looks like the details depend on our machines, and the level of
> performance we need. It shouldn't be that hard to make a basic one, if
> you figure the toolchanger is just doing what we do with our hands, and
> it's more likely to work well if it as simple as possible.
I like that "what we do with our hands". I have a high speed spindle 
(http://www.bzt-cnc.de/product_info.php/info/p19_Fraes-Spindel-2KW-380V-18000-rpm-.html)
 
with a fixed ER25 collet. The only option I currently see is something 
like the rapid changer from High Tech Systems 
(http://www.hightechsystemsllc.com/pt_rapid_changer.html) but that one 
does not fit my system.

The other option is a bit more complex and involves pneumatic operated 
spanner and a pneumatic wrench to change a complete cutter/nut/collet 
assembly - but I have no idea what that will do for the wear on the 
spindle's collet mount (apart from the fact that is is a bit complex). I 
can imagine that holding the spindle, unscrewing the collet's nut, 
swapping the combo for another one and then screwing the nut back in 
place is not that good for the spindle.

Rob



--
The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your
production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to
Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700
Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image 
processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Joint following error?

[Rob Jansen]

Michael,

a joint following error means that the position where EMC thinks the 
axis should be is not the same as where the motor controller's feedback 
loop tells you the axis is.

I guess you have a stepper system which makes this a strange error to 
see. But EMC is split in a trajectory control and a motor driver which, 
in case of a stepper motor system, is stepgen. Stepgen reports it's 
motor's position to the trajectory control.
If the stepgen is programmed to have slower parameters than what EMC's 
trajectory control thinks, this may (eventually will) trigger a joint 
following error.

There are multiple reasons why this error may appear. In a stepper based 
system driven by the parallel port driver this mostly is due to a system 
tuned too close to its limits. I suggest you re-do the latency test and 
see if something changed. Also try the tort.ngc in the samples 
directory, this is a real torture for the machine and I found that if it 
passes the first 20 or so lines all my other programs run OK.

If you have a different configuration (e.g. servo motors with external 
controllers) then also tuning your system too close to the edge will 
result in joint following errors. For servo systems, always set the max 
velocity and max acceleration in the .ini file a bit (I used 5%) lower 
than the values specified for the motor drivers.

Good luck,

Rob


Michael Jones wrote:
> I'm getting a "joint following error on axis 0" EMC2 2.3 lately.  This  
> usually happens when doing some fine detail an engraving with a fine v  
> bit - and of course when it's about 90% done with the program..  I  
> haven't been doing this long enough to say that it's definitely 2.3 as  
> I didn't get my engraving programs set up until after I upgraded.
>
> What causes this type of error?
>
> - Michael
>
> --
> The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your
> production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to
> Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700
> Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image 
> processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>   

--
The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your
production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to
Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700
Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image 
processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] I Need help optimizing the step generation

[Rob Jansen]

Michael,

the documentation is of course the first thing where to look for the 
information you need.
But having been there myself I know it can be quite overwhelming ...

> I've been reading in parts of the documentation and troubleshooting  
> pages that some of these issues could be due to step length and such  
> being set up incorrectly.
>   
In you previous posts, beginning of April, you already mentioned that 
you changed the stepper timings and inverted the step signal. Step 
timings of 2,000 us (is that 1,000 for the step len + 1,000 for the step 
size or 2,000 + 2,000) are not that fast. Usable for most drivers and 
motors (I've got big (slow) ones driven at that (2,000 + 2,000) rate 
without losing any steps). As I found out inversion of the step (and 
dir!) signals may make the difference. Most stepper drivers use opto 
couplers connected between the I/O bit of the parallel port and the +5V 
supply (I took that from a USB port on the PC). As long as the stepper 
motors are not moving, the step signal is low and it is only being 
pulsed high if a step signal is needed - this means that there is a 
current flow through the LED in the optocoupler when the motors are 
idle. Having a (fairly high) current driving the opto couplers all the 
time may just be too much for the port. On my FPGA board I had to invert 
both the step and the dir signal - the dir signal only becomes active 
when driving the step signal.
> Do these numbers look normal?   The MAX_VELOCITY and MAX_ACCELERATION  
> look strange to me.. but then I don't know what normal is..
>   
these values are in (inch?) per second and inch per second squared. 
MAX_VEL = 0.1 means 6 inch per minute - seems a bit on the slow side for 
my machine (I have 25 mm/s = 59 "/min). With these values you should at 
least never hit
> The backlash is a little high - it's on the list.. but otherwise what  
> should I be looking for here as "normal".
>   
Backlash is what you would have to turn the handwheel before the mill 
starts moving. 0.008 inch (0.2 mm) looks OK - that is normal on my hand 
operated mill.
> 2)I seem to be having some issues with my Z axis loosing steps (X and  
> Y seem to be pretty stable).When making a series of up and down  
> moves for some engraving, the depth gets reduced as the program  
> progresses.
>   
That is funny. Most of the times when loosing steps this is due to 
combined speed and load which would mean that loosing steps in the Z 
axis would mostly result in deeper engraving. But (see remark on the top 
of this mail) inverting the dir signal may do the trick.
> 3)Is the step generation dependent on the stepper motor driver, or  
> the stepper motor itself?
>   
Both. The driver has maximum values specified, this mostly limits your 
step size and step len signals (and the max. stepper frequency) but the 
motor is mostly slower than this so the max accel and max vel are really 
determined by the motors.
> Any advice or pointers to any good resources would be greatly  
> appreciated.   Remember.. I'm a NOOB at this, detailed explanations  
> would be GREATLY appreciated.
The docs - I discovered that a lot of questions that I had would have 
been answered by reading the docs. Only problem I had was that there was 
so much documentation and so little time to read ...

Good luck,

Rob


--
The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your
production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to
Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700
Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image 
processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Cheap MPG

[Rob Jansen]

Well, Kirk did it again!

> I think MPG's are too expensive, so I am trying to see if I could make
> one. What I have so far is at the top of the page here:
> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/
>   
I found this MPG 
http://www.myvoice.nl/freesmachine/images/encoder-handwiel-voorkant.jpg 
at a local supplier.
I thought that for 47 EUR (~ 60 USD) this was not too expensive to make 
a pendant with.

But now, seeing these nice pics from Kirk my fingers start itching 
again. It is easy enough to make one myself and I should have some opto 
interrupters in my junk box. The MPG is 50mm with the knob being 38 
round and 16 mm height. I've got enough pieces of scrap aluminum left to 
make the mechanics. Time is more of an issue so I will buy the 'proper' 
one and keep Kirk's pictures as a trigger to make a smaller MPG - I 
guess that a 1" sized knob could be just the perfect size.

But first things first. I planned to mount all the limit switches 
beginning of this week but cables and connectors only arrived yesterday. 
I also promised Chris to look at a G73 issue he fixed 2 days before - 
but at this time the mill is still busy with a job that should have been 
finished yesterday morning (which should have been finished if not for a 
malfunctioning tool ...).

Rob

--
The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your
production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to
Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700
Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image 
processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] I Need help optimizing the step generation

[Rob Jansen]

Michael Jones wrote:
> I'm not SURE about the Z axis variations, but things seem to be more  
> stable - I'm doing an engraving right now, so the jury's still out,  
> but it looks good.
>   

When setting up my machine I created a small G-code program to move the 
axis up and down at different speeds and different distances, returning 
to the same (bottom) position at the end.
Then I measured the distance with a gauge to check for any steps being 
lost down the way.

Regards,

Rob

--
The NEW KODAK i700 Series Scanners deliver under ANY circumstances! Your
production scanning environment may not be a perfect world - but thanks to
Kodak, there's a perfect scanner to get the job done! With the NEW KODAK i700
Series Scanner you'll get full speed at 300 dpi even with all image 
processing features enabled. http://p.sf.net/sfu/kodak-com
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Mounting PC boards for drilling/milling - was Re: cable shielding??

[Rob Jansen]

Gene, Gary,

I use double sided tape a lot for milling EPS/XPS foam and sometimes for 
PCB milling.
There is a problem with the tape wrapping around the mill when you mill 
through the tape, not that much of a problem for PCB material with a 
spade mill but it could be a problem with one of those combined 
engraver/drill bits for PCBs. Surely tape is a problem with foam, the 
tape will stick on the sharp edges and influence the quality of the cut.

A vacuum table is the better solution and easy to make yourself. 
Although I don't like Andrew's design (it does not allow you to use 
smaller PCB material) it is nicely made.
Check out this link 
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33585&page=2 
 in the 
cnczone, it shows photo's of a home made grid type vacuum table. Nice 
thing on the grid type is that you can use a silicone or rubber band to 
create a smaller vacuum area.
Made out of PVC it is not expensive, not too heavy and very forgiving in 
case you drill or mill too deep.

And yes, you do need a vacuum pump and the litter wonder that Gene has 
is a very nice humming pump. Most membrame type of compressor like used 
in a refrigerator are also a nice, they don't make as much noise as my 
vane pump (mostly being used to vacumize large 70" x 20" carbon forming 
molds).
When buying a vacuum pump, be sure it is suited for this kind of 
continuous high vacuum load. Under load the motor may become hot and 
even a smaller pump may need a cooling fan to guarantee long life.

Regards,

Rob


Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Thursday 14 May 2009, Gary Fiber wrote:

>> I think some use double sided tape to stick down PC boards. I read on
>> someone's site he used Scotch 667 double sided tape so I got a roll
>> and will try it. Others use carpet tape.
>> 
>
> I may give that a shot.  Obviously clean the table off with alky first so the 
> tape will stick. :)
>
>   
>> Others use vacuum clamps. Have a look at http://www.drewtronics.net/
>> 
>
> Neat, and wonder of wonders, I actually have one of those little pumps!  
> Hu...
>
>   

--
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial
Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables 
unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine 
for externally facing server and web deployment. 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] TechShop

[Rob Jansen]

Could work.

In the Netherlands we had something like this for guys (and gills) 
restoring their own car: A real garage with all the tools and a real car 
mechanic making sure the 'tough jobs' got done in a proper way so you 
end up with a working car.
But in the end they could not make it happen, although there were a lot 
of people interested there was not enough income to keep that big garage 
alive.

I have the feeling that a TechShop would end up the same. It looks real 
good to be member of a TechShop, but there are already a lot of 
non-commercial groups, most of the times payed by community money and/or 
in a community building, providing this service to individuals. My dad 
is a member of the local "Steam group" for something like 50 euro a 
year. This is something most hobbyists will prefer; most of them have a 
small mill, drill and/or lathe at home and for the more 
advanced/big/heavy stuff they meet in their tool shop. The only catch is 
that you need to keep your own cutting tools (something I would always 
do) to be sure that you have proper and sharp tools.

I think that for hobbyists the 1200 USD a year is a bit high, you can 
buy a lot of nice stuff for that kind of money, and for commercial use 
you mostly need something to be done now so it's hard to rely on a 
'public' service. I visited a number of local companies who have all 
kind of weird stuff you would not expect over there. A small local shop 
bought a water jet machine just because he needs things done now, fast, 
and he can't wait for a larger shop to complete this for him.
Corporate membership sounds fun but if you have to pay your own 
personnel to be there and do the job, I think it is cheaper to outsource 
the whole stuff to a local tool shop. With the current economic 
situation there are a lot of local tool shops asking for a job - prices 
dropped drastically even to such a level that I have them done stuff for 
my hobby projects ...

Regards,

Rob

Kirk Wallace wrote:
> This seems like a good idea. I don't know if they can make money at it
> though.
>
> http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cls/1163029439.html 
>
>   

--
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial
Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables 
unlimited royalty-free distribution of the report engine 
for externally facing server and web deployment. 
http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] EMC slowing down after large program

[Rob Jansen]

Hi all,

I am not sure if it is just me or my Linux machine but I have a problem 
that looks like memory leaks or something like this.

After running a very large G-code program (like 655,000 lines of code, 
14 MB filesize) EMC becomes real slow. A clear live plot (ctrl-K) does 
not help but after shutting down EMC and restarting again the behaviour 
is as expected. With real slow I mean that it takes 1 - 2 seconds before 
EMC responds on keypresses to move an axis. In a normal situation the 
response is instantaneous and a short push on the page up key moves the 
Z-axis a bit (1 mm or so) but after running a large program a short 
press on page up results in a Z-axis move of 50 - 100mm.
I tried both the clear live plot and loading another (small, few lines 
of code) G-code file but that does not help.
Stopping and restarting EMC helps, then the system is in 'normal mode' 
again.

The machines is a 1.8 GHz intel and has (only) 1 GB of memory available. 
I do see that there is about 1 MB of swap space being used but I cannot 
relate this to these slow response times.

Regards,

Rob

--
Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT
is a gathering of tech-side developers & brand creativity professionals. Meet
the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, & 
iPhoneDevCamp asthey present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian
Group, R/GA, & Big Spaceship. http://www.creativitycat.com 
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Rotary Axis Designs

[Rob Jansen]

The same procedure as Belli Button suggest is indeed standard. Two (half 
height) gears mounted on top of each other and interlocking the the 
driving gear to remove the play on the gearing.
Easy for standard gears or trapezoid and ball screw axis (two nuts on 
one axis) but a bit more complex for worm gears.

Most rotary tables (like the vertex one: 
http://hamilton-tool-supply.amazonwebstore.com/B000HRY444/M/B000HRY444.htm) 
have a little pin located next to the hand wheel. That pin moves the 
worm in an eccentric mount so you can move the worm closer to the bronze 
wheel - I found you can remove the play by moving this.
But ... the problem is that the bronze wheel may not be fully centric 
mounted, resulting in a difference of the distance between bronze wheel 
and worm drive, resulting in too much friction or too much play. To fix 
this you'll have to reposition the bronze wheel.

I guess the more professional and expensive ones will be using some way 
to center the wheel (using a conus) but on the Vertex rotary table there 
is a bit of play on the mount of the wheel on the rotating table. Still 
I managed to reduce the play on my vertex 4th axis to an acceptable 
level - but then I am not milling fine pitched large gears with it ...

Regards,

Rob

Belli Button wrote:
> It can be done with the Bonfig style worm gearboxes.  What you need to do is 
> strip the gearbox, remove the bronze wheel and cut it in 'half' (slice?) 
> with a wire cutter.  Then mill three slots concentric to the centre on one 
> half and drill and tap three corresponding holes on the other half.  When 
> you reassemble the gearbox, slide the one half relative to the other to take 
> up the backlash.  This seems to work really well but does require a bit of 
> engineering.  We have built some fairly large '4th Axes' like this for not a 
> great deal of money.
>
> Clear as mud?
>   

--
Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT
is a gathering of tech-side developers & brand creativity professionals. Meet
the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, & 
iPhoneDevCamp asthey present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian
Group, R/GA, & Big Spaceship. http://www.creativitycat.com 
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Datron Pulsed Ethanol Mist

[Rob Jansen]

Kirk,

nice machines.
I have to try this ethanol mist myself. Ethanol is less expensive as 
good oil and less hazardous for you health.

> Using an Ethanol based mist, must have a lot of hazard, corrosion and HR
> issues?
>   
Oil or emulsion based cooling is a mess. The substances used are not 
quite that nice on both people and the environment.
I have a Noga 2000 oil drip pump with mist option. The oil goes 
everywhere and without real good ventilation the whole shop is full of 
oily air.
Cleaning the machine afterwards is a pain in the ... The oil sticks to 
every part within 20" of where the mill has been.

Emulsion is even worse. A lot of machinists warned me for the corrosive 
behaviour of the emulsion - this is the main reason why a lot of 
machines have rusty inner parts.

Ethanol is non corrosive on metal, unfortunately it is never pure and 
contains water (4-40%), so will not do (any more) harm to metals than 
the emulsion. As a big pro, you do not need to clean your workpiece to 
get rid of the oil or emulsion. Due to the ethanol vaporizing it is a 
very good coolant and I use it a lot for drilling and milling of 
aluminum. My machining handbook even suggests ethanol as primary cooling 
for this.

The reason why (pure) ethanol is used instead of the more common 
methanol/ethanol is because it is not (as) harmfull. It will get you 
drunk but it will not kill you.
Ethanol mist is definitely less harmfull than oil mist.

One tip: never use isopropane alcohol instead of ethanol. Yes, the 
isopropane smells better (a nice sweet smell) but it will get you high 
by inhaling. I've used it quite some times to clean printer circuit 
boards and at one time my boss sent both me and a colleague home because 
we were not able to do our jobs anymore :-)

P.s: what I like on the Datron machine is the change of the direction of 
the mist, depending on the milling direction. Would be interesting to 
know if this is automatic or a G-code action.

Regards,

Rob


--
Register Now for Creativity and Technology (CaT), June 3rd, NYC. CaT 
is a gathering of tech-side developers & brand creativity professionals. Meet
the minds behind Google Creative Lab, Visual Complexity, Processing, & 
iPhoneDevCamp as they present alongside digital heavyweights like Barbarian 
Group, R/GA, & Big Spaceship. http://p.sf.net/sfu/creativitycat-com 
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Brushless Motor

[Rob Jansen]

The problem with taking apart motors with permanents magnets is not as 
much the loss of magnetism but its force.
I have disassembled quite a lot of motors with perms. Back in 'the old 
days' when I was still young ;-) I already realized that it pays to 
recycle and removing the copper made nice pocket money.

Problem is that as soon as you remove one of the covers the rotor most 
of the times does not stay in the center - it immediately bonds to any 
other metal it may find, damaging the magnetic material or even 
permanently attaching it to this metal. But the motors I handled were 
strong - strong in the sense that you should not wear a mechanical watch 
when handling the motors ... I've had quite some motors where I had real 
problems removing the rotor from the housing after it got stuck to the 
metal core of the coils.

So if you like to keep your brushless or stepper motors in qorking 
condition it is best not to disassemble.

Rob

-- Error! Grasshopper is disassemble. Reassemble! - Johnny 5

Rafael Skodlar wrote:
> Was there a particular reason to take it apart? I remember companies
> warning you about destroying stepper motor, permanent magnet to be
> exact, if you take it apart.
> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=903
>
> Not sure if this applies to brushless motors though.
>   


--
OpenSolaris 2009.06 is a cutting edge operating system for enterprises 
looking to deploy the next generation of Solaris that includes the latest 
innovations from Sun and the OpenSource community. Download a copy and 
enjoy capabilities such as Networking, Storage and Virtualization. 
Go to: http://p.sf.net/sfu/opensolaris-get
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] EMC slowing down after large program

[Rob Jansen]

Rainer,

I am more talking in the range of 650.000 lines.so about 40 times as  
big as the program you tested.
 l am milling Large molds with high precision resulting in these very 
large programs.

 Rob


Rainer Schmidt wrote:
> 15K lines with 6 subsequent runs without exit or reboot and no issues...
> I recommend stopping to watch THOSE movies while engraving ;)
> Rainer
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Michael Jones
>  wrote:
>   
>> Rob,
>>
>> I've been noticing the same thing lately.  Very similar hardware
>> setup.. very similar symptoms after a gcode file of about 20,000 lines
>> (fine line engraving).
>>
>> Has anyone seen anything like this?  Is there a solution?
>>
>> - Michael
>> 



--
OpenSolaris 2009.06 is a cutting edge operating system for enterprises 
looking to deploy the next generation of Solaris that includes the latest 
innovations from Sun and the OpenSource community. Download a copy and 
enjoy capabilities such as Networking, Storage and Virtualization. 
Go to: http://p.sf.net/sfu/opensolaris-get
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] EMC slowing down after large program

[Rob Jansen]

Rainer,

I am more talking in the range of 650.000 lines.so about 40 times as  
big as the program you tested.
 l am milling Large molds with high precision resulting in these very 
large programs.

 Rob


Rainer Schmidt wrote:
> 15K lines with 6 subsequent runs without exit or reboot and no issues...
> I recommend stopping to watch THOSE movies while engraving ;)
> Rainer
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Michael Jones
>  wrote:
>   
>> Rob,
>>
>> I've been noticing the same thing lately.  Very similar hardware
>> setup.. very similar symptoms after a gcode file of about 20,000 lines
>> (fine line engraving).
>>
>> Has anyone seen anything like this?  Is there a solution?
>>
>> - Michael
>> 



--
OpenSolaris 2009.06 is a cutting edge operating system for enterprises 
looking to deploy the next generation of Solaris that includes the latest 
innovations from Sun and the OpenSource community. Download a copy and 
enjoy capabilities such as Networking, Storage and Virtualization. 
Go to: http://p.sf.net/sfu/opensolaris-get
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Purchase of 7i43 and 7i33

[Rob Jansen]

>
> You're kidding me right???
>
> I called them today to figure out what cards do what and which is
> supported by EMC. We are looking for more than one... cough cough...
> That call was a pretty bad experience and after reading the above
> they're off the short list. No further information required. If they
> want safety, they should accept PayPal.
> Cheers
> Rainer
Are you kidding us ???

Paypal is a company - not a bank - and if you have any problems with 
them; bad for you.
Banks and credit card companies are safe (ehm at least as safe as you 
can get nowadays) and if there is any problem with a money transfer over 
credit card there is a good procedure to get your money back. I know ... 
I ordered for a few 1,000 Euro worth of computer equipment from a 
company and the parcel got lost in royal mail. Even after a number of 
phone conversations, postal investigation, a lot of waiting time and 
lack of response from the vendor I called my credit card company and 
they provided me with a form to fill out. Had my money back in no time - 
still waiting on a response from the vendor though. Vendor is a big 
computer company in the Netherlands and I found them to be very bad when 
money or warranty is involved.

I once tried to get a paypal account in NL but I have to sign them an 
authorization form to charge my bank for all my financial transactions 
with them.
Are they kidding ??? I will never give any firm an open offer to 
withdraw money from my account - especially not if there only way of 
security is a username/password combo on an open website.
If you want security pay using credit card - paypal is for those who 
can/will not accept the professionalism of dealing with real banks 
(sorry but that's how I think of them)

I found Mesa Electronics a professional company, dealing with customers 
in a professional way and handling my credit card information as I would 
accept. All they want is a proper written statement with number, 
security code and your signature. Mesa replied promptly and 
professional; I sent them a fax followed by an email that I faxed them - 
had a reply within a few minutes that my order was ok. I also ordered 
'more than one... cough cough...' and would do so again if I am building 
another three machines.

BTW: Delivery was as good as their way of accepting my order. Delivery 
via FedEx international parcel arrived within 48 hours after placing my 
order - I was not even ready yet to upgrade my computer at that time :-)

Another plus on Mesa: they upgraded my 7i43 200k gates to a 400k gates 
for free - just because they did not have a 200k ROHS version on stock - 
on my first order. I did not ask them to, neither was I in a hurry

Rob

--
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial
Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited
royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing 
server and web deployment.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] New machine in production

[Rob Jansen]

Andy Pugh wrote:
> 2009/6/10 Rainer Schmidt :
>
>   
>> I just visited an exhibition in NYC in the Javits Center and
>> Bosch/Rexroth were there as well. Nice components! And with the
>> economy right now... they even talk to the smaller guys.
>> 
>
> Handy stuff indeed, I used it for the case of my CNC controller

There are tons of ways using this stuff. And not just the Bosch profiles 
- there are other brands out there with cheaper stuff using different 
fasteners.
My machine is built up using 80x80mm extra strong profiles. I found a 
local shop selling this stuff and they even cut the stuff with a 0.1mm 
accuracy and exactly square.
On youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRhcYF9Vfbk) there is a short 
movie showing the first movements of my machine with a ball pen attached.

Just to give you an idea: the gantry is 1.20m wide built using 2 80x80 
extra strong profiles. After mounting both profiles on one endplate I 
could just drop in the bolt on the other side without having to force 
the profiles into place.

Nowadays the machine looks a bit different; there is a 15mm alu plate on 
top of the profiles with a 20mm T-nut profile screwed on top and the pen 
is replaced with a 2 kW 18,000 rpm spindle to do some more serious stuff.

Rob
--
Crystal Reports - New Free Runtime and 30 Day Trial
Check out the new simplified licensing option that enables unlimited
royalty-free distribution of the report engine for externally facing 
server and web deployment.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/businessobjects
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Using MDI during a Program?

[Rob Jansen]

Hubert,

there is also the option of integrating a tool length sensor.
With the first tool set the home position of the Z-axis and use the tool 
length sensor to record a tool-sensor offset.
After changing the tool, go back to the tool length sensor and determine 
the tool length, minus the offset is the new home.

This does involve some extra G-code after a manual tool change but it is 
a great way to prevent problems due to changes in the tool length.
This is the way I like to use a tool sensor but it is still not done... 
I still use different files for different tools but this means I do make 
mistakes from time to time: Forgetting to load the new program, wrong 
order of programs or just forgetting to set Z=0 with a new tool.

There is, as far as I know, no way to use MDI during a program. If it 
was possible then how would EMC know how to move back to the last 
programmed position/

Rob

Hubert Bahr wrote:
> Is there anyway to use MDI during a program run.  I would like to be 
> able to move the work and adjust the zero of the Z-axis during a tool 
> change.  Right now I do this by turning off the drivers and manually 
> moving the mill.  This requires keeping manual handles available.  I 
> would prefer to do this using MDI.  The only option I see is breaking 
> the program in multiple pieces for each tool change.  I guess I am using 
> 2.2.  At this time I do not have limit switches implemented.
>
> Hubert
>   

--
Are you an open source citizen? Join us for the Open Source Bridge conference!
Portland, OR, June 17-19. Two days of sessions, one day of unconference: $250.
Need another reason to go? 24-hour hacker lounge. Register today!
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;215844324;13503038;v?http://opensourcebridge.org
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Using MDI during a Program?

[Rob Jansen]

Andy Pugh wrote:
> 2009/6/20 Rob Jansen :
>
>   
>> how would EMC know how to move back to the last
>> programmed position/
>> 
>
> I don't think it needs to, it will either do the next G0 (which is no
> problem at all) or do a G1 which might get a bit boring. 
You do need to do something special.
An automatic tool change would first move to a safe height (clear away 
from the work piece in the Z axis), move to the tool changer, grab the 
new tool, move to the safe height, move to the old XY position and only 
then move to the wanted Z position again before continuing the code.

As least for simple 3-axis movements. For 5 - or more - axis movements 
the tool could even be in a side pocket and I have no idea how EMC could 
figure this out all by itself.

So if you would stop and so some MDI actions you do need to bring the 
tool back to an approximate, or even the exact same, position before 
continuing. Otherwise your tool may collide with the work piece.
This is especially true when current actions are taking place in small 
deep pockets - otherwise the tool or collet could come in unwanted 
contact with the work piece.
I know - this happened to me a few times with desastrous results (not 
fun with EUR 200 end mills ...)

I'll try to create the 'manumatic' tool change I suggested next week and 
post the results on this list.
Things should be easy: zero the first tool, go to the tool height 
indicator and determine the offset (i.e. -5). Indicator and tool change 
position should be at a reachable location and such that all tools can 
be fitted (enough Z height). Now determine the offset with the new tool 
- for example +10 - this means the current tool is 15 longer than the 
old one and the Z=0 position should be moved 15 up. We now program the 
new position Z-height (for this coordinate system) to be the current 
height - (new offset - old offset). If we moved 10 mm clear of the tool 
indicator probe then this means Z-current = +5 and Z-new = 5 - (10 - -5) 
= -10 (new Z=0 is 15 higher than the old one). Now store +10 as the old 
offset to use for the next tool change.

I know that doing this my result in longer milling times since the 
probing is taking place (at low speed) and the moves to the tool 
change/indicator position but when it prevents any stupid mistakes 
resulting in hours of lost work (or broken tools) it is worth the time.

Most of my current milling involves the milling of molds for carbon 
products. Here 
(http://www.myvoice.nl/prototyping/prototyping.php#fork?lang=en) is a 
nice example of a mold that took about 3 days to complete (I know - my 
machine is too slow) a manual tool change followed by an accident after 
a full day of work would be a real waste

Rob

Note to self: add telephone allert to trigger the operator (me) to do a 
tool change :-)

--
Are you an open source citizen? Join us for the Open Source Bridge conference!
Portland, OR, June 17-19. Two days of sessions, one day of unconference: $250.
Need another reason to go? 24-hour hacker lounge. Register today!
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;215844324;13503038;v?http://opensourcebridge.org
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] (Dutch) EMC for Dummies fest

[Rob Jansen]

Some time ago there were a few mails about an EMC Fest in Europe.
Just this week another Dutch EMC user (Dirk) sent me an email to trigger 
me about the silence about the European EMC Fest. We both feel the need 
to do something - even if it is just the two of us :-}

But I do not have that much EMC knowledge, nor a nice servo controlled 
mill to retrofit.
I see lots of CNC systems being developed that use one of the Windows 
(USBCNC, PCNC) programs.
Our idea is to host an EMC fest for ourselves (expanding and sharing our 
own knowledge) and to introduce EMC to those who are still looking for a 
controller.

I got a set of linear drive units with stepper controllers and also have 
a spare 5i20 card (and a 7i43 card) to use instead of the standard 
parport config.
So this winter, exact date still to be determined, we like to host an 
event, somewhere in the Netherlands, for guys like us.

If it's just Dirk and Me we will call it a mini Fest, if there are 5 
users it is an EMC for dummies fest, more than 20 we'll call a big 
succes ;-)

If anyone is interested, wants to join or even has a location (or more 
donor material), just reply via email.


Regards,

Rob

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Error with new program.

[Rob Jansen]

Aram,
> i use text edditor. and file has extention  .txt
> in file everything cleare and problem. i save file. when load into EMC2
> lines 6 and 7 joint to line 5
in a terminal window type: "od -c filename.txt" (without the  " ").
Copy/paste the output to this list, then I'll be able to see if there 
are unwanted characters in the file.
Or post a link to your file somewhere on the web for us to download.

Rob

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Bad character'\37777777757' used

[Rob Jansen]

to avoid a problem you need to know what is causing it.
If the problem is on the first line, then use "head" as a filter to only 
show the first 20 lines of the output.

Just type:

od -a test.txt | head

I am not sure what your linux/unix background knowledge is but in this line:

   1. od -a test.txt
  prints the ascii content of the file file test.txt with all
  special characters visible
   2. | (the pipe symbol)
  pipes, or redirects, the output of the previous command to the
  next one
   3. head
  prints the first 20 lines of the given input

I think that on this list it is often given that everyone knows (a bit 
of) linux - which is not always true.

Rob

a...@conceptmachinery.com wrote:
> Hi
> i be more interesting in how to avoid problem than see what causing it.
> suppose something there and i have 80 000 line of code and than i need
> look at each line and there 80 000 of them.
> i think need some kind filter.
> unfortunately CAM program windows type and it just creates every time new
> error.
> finding problem in each particular case do not solve problem.
> problem is in CAM program that output wrong stuff.
> i think i need filter that covert correctly and strict what do and dont,
> aram
>
>
>   
>> Again, it looks like you are getting non standard characters in your
>> programs.  Use 'od' to check the contents.  The program file can only
>> consist of regular character (a-z, 0-9, and some punctuation characters).
>>
>> Also, make sure the editor you are using isn't generating a UNICODE text
>> file.  Unicode uses 2 data bytes to represent a single character. If you
>> run
>> 'od' on a UNICODE file you will get this...
>>
>>
>> fra...@workshoppc:~/src$ od -a test.txt
>> 000 del   ~   T nul   h nul   i nul   s nul  sp nul   i nul   s nul
>> 020  sp nul   a nul  sp nul   t nul   e nul   s nul   t nul
>> 036
>>
>>
>> If you post the file (or part of it) as an attachment, we can tell you
>> exactly what is wrong.  If you copy and paste the contents of the file
>> into
>> your email program, these special characters get removed, and we can't see
>> the problem.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>>
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: a...@conceptmachinery.com [mailto:a...@conceptmachinery.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 2:05 PM
>>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>>> Subject: [Emc-users] Bad character'\357' used
>>>
>>> hi
>>> every time i load new program i am getting new error.
>>> now i have that one
>>> near line 2 of/..
>>>  Bad character'\357' used
>>>
>>> here is first lines
>>>
>>> %
>>>
>>> N2G90
>>>
>>> G55X0Y0Z0
>>>
>>> N4 G0 Z0.25001
>>>
>>> N5 X17.41802 Y37.36987
>>>
>>> N6 G1 Z-0.12328 F7.3
>>>
>>> N7 Z-0.14828 F2.7
>>>
>>> N8 X17.24044 Y36.61335 F3.7
>>>
>>> N9 X17.09375 Y35.1536
>>>
>>> N10 X17.08518 Y36.73141
>>>
>>> thanks
>>> aram
>>>
>>>   

--
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users