[E-devel] update of ja.po for e16
Hi all This is an update of ja.po for e16 as of September 11. --- Thank you for telling me the truth. --- HAL9000 in 2010 Yasufumi Haga [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://homepage3.nifty.com/peterpan/ fingerprint:0EFA 299A BC32 7D68 1FEF BA2B 804E 9B15 C4F0 F9F0 ja.po.gz Description: Binary data - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] [PATCH] Header for Evas_FB
On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:22:33 +0200 Cedric BAIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hi, I am not able to compile on my computer the fb engine without the attached patch (PAGE_MASK wasn't defined). Don't know if it is correct on all possible platform, but work with glibc and uclibc 0.9.28. doesn't break things here. in. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Position bug?
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006 07:50:54 +0200 Anders Troback [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hi, I tell a program to remember it's virtual desktop and position. When I start the program from an other desktop or from startup/.order the program starts on the desired desktop but the position are wrong. It always starts in the upper left corner! And now the program has a new position in memory and will start in the corner every time until I move it to a new position! Bug or a feature? ;-) fixed. :) used to work - broke somewhere. \\troback -- Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. And 'No' is the answer! Anders Trobäck http://www.troback.com - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: As many may have noticed, e's official website, enlightenmnet.org is pretty painfully out of date. The screenshots on the front page are all from e16, and there have been a total of 3 news items this year. yup. i have been mulling what to do about this for a while. FYI we are getting a new box - donated to us from coolcheeze (from the arcane linux project - he also does consulting and box building). a fairly beefy box. it will be on 100mbit at osuosl and has a fair bit of juice (dual opteron, 2gb ram, sata raid). i am thinking 1. anoncvs will move here. 2. move www for e.org here - now we have 100% control over what we can run and how it runs. we can trivially run scripts to auto-build daily tarballs (make dist ones) and more. i think this may make a good case for e.org re-vamps to accommodate such things - and maybe a complete re-design. our current layout has been with us for many years (the logic - not the imagery) and it might be time to trim it down and make it more accessible. i have been thinking we need simple links: --- about news screenshots download bugs contact --- documentation cvs debugging 0.16 0.17 core libraries widget sets ... and that's about it. there is a little bit too much to wade through - also it's not named with common conventions (get enlightenment instead of download for example). we can put documentation and that stuff as maybe extra links below the main ones, but the main common ones in big bold and easy to find links (maybe the front page just becomes a quick header, 3 line blurb and big fat image links to the most common sections listed first above (6 of them). I know Ben (the peudo-official web maintainer) has been super busy with work and Opensolaris, and has a personal distaste for CMSs (such as the one e.org currently uses, XSM). I believe the whole point of originally moving to a CMS was to allow a much larger group of people to contribute to the site's content, but that hasn't happened yet. indeed. i am wondering if it ever will. maybe the experiment failed? So, I'd like to propose that we do a few things. First, restructure the front page to contain a brief description of what the Enlightenment project is, followed by news items that get regularly updated. Whenever an asparagus release is made, a note should be added. Whenever new fun features are added, or obscure bugs finally squashed, a note should be added. We needed at least two or three people who are familiar enough with whats going on to take on these responsibilities. sure. we also need to make this easy to do - maybe even automated? Next, I know there have been a few issues with XSM and sf.net. When a change is made, the entire site is rebuilt and re-uploaded to sf.net. This can take a few minutes, and isn't always successful (sometimes resulting in a blank front page). Is there any chance we could move e.org onto a non-sf server (one that we can have XSM running locally on)? Would CaOS be willing to host the website also? (its static, so shouldn't be much more load on top of cvs). see above. will be happening in the next 1-3 weeks. people will get accounts - appropriate people will get root access etc. etc. :) this can be the beginning of our online empire to rule the world... MUAHAHHAHAHAH. just kidding - but it will allow us to provide online services to E itself later - like online update to help/faq docs so users can find help on what they want more quickly without needing to launch web browsers etc. Finally, I think we need some sort of intro doc on how to use XSM, and a small guideline doc on what goes where on the website. sure - either that or not use xsm? xsm has been good - it has solved problems. it will run much better locally on the same box, but will it scale nicely to auto-listing generated tarball snapshots from a directory for us? we will need to pre-generate pages from templates in scripts, or do them dynamically with php etc. (much like enlightenment.freedesktop.org does - its very simple php to collate a set of generated tarballs) I know there's a web list, but I first wanted to discuss this here, since it involves possibly moving servers. Let me know what ya'll think. and finally i'm getting back to it... hooray! :) some of this will be solved soon - the question is how to move forward from there? how do we make it easier for people to provide news and articles? xsm has not proven effective so far in making that happen. what can we do? -- rephorm - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
i have been thinking we need simple links: --- about news screenshots download bugs contact --- documentation cvs debugging 0.16 0.17 core libraries widget sets ... for debugging, maybe a bugzilla server. I know that xcomp has something similar, but i've never suceeded in registrering me (it does not send any mail to me for the subscription). Vincent - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:03:01 +0200 (CEST) Vincent Torri [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: i have been thinking we need simple links: --- about news screenshots download bugs contact --- documentation cvs debugging 0.16 0.17 core libraries widget sets ... for debugging, maybe a bugzilla server. I know that xcomp has something similar, but i've never suceeded in registrering me (it does not send any mail to me for the subscription). i HATE bugzilla - or for that matter almost all bug trackers. they all either fill your mailbox with junk or they force you to keep a web browser open at all times when coding and to use horrid web ui's that are slow, cumbersome and ugly. as a developer - they entirely get in the way. if we had something that would allow to edit the TODO file or something similar so all the bug reporting went through cvs and the bugs were put where they are trivially accessible - maybe - but to date that system doesn't exist as best i know - so someone would need to write it. -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:03:01 +0200 (CEST) Vincent Torri [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: [snip] if we had something that would allow to edit the TODO file or something similar so all the bug reporting went through cvs and the bugs were put where they are trivially accessible - maybe - but to date that system doesn't exist as best i know - so someone would need to write it. There was a TODO parser written and it has been used on the e.org site for testing - it was just never released. At the time it would not have integrated well, as there was no internal scripting available to XSM sites, but now it is all possible... A - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:38:30 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MUAHAHHAHAHAH. just kidding - but it will allow us to provide online services to E itself later - like online update to help/faq docs so users can find help on what they want more quickly without needing to launch web browsers etc. Yes, something I have wanted to do all along, network updated FAQs on the desktop. signature.asc Description: PGP signature - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:22:36 +0100 Andrew Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: I know Ben (the peudo-official web maintainer) has been super busy with work and Opensolaris, and has a personal distaste for CMSs (such as the one e.org currently uses, XSM). I believe the whole point of originally moving to a CMS was to allow a much larger group of people to contribute to the site's content, but that hasn't happened yet. indeed. i am wondering if it ever will. maybe the experiment failed? Whether this particular implementation of the experiment failed or not I think it is unwise to be going back to web-in-cvs as it was far harder to use! well i'd agree that web in cvs likely is a bad idea again (though benr thinks it was great) :) Finally, I think we need some sort of intro doc on how to use XSM, and a small guideline doc on what goes where on the website. sure - either that or not use xsm? xsm has been good - it has solved problems. it will run much better locally on the same box, but will it scale nicely to auto-listing generated tarball snapshots from a directory for us? we will need to pre-generate pages from templates in scripts, or do them dynamically with php etc. (much like enlightenment.freedesktop.org does - its very simple php to collate a set of generated tarballs) XSM supports embedded PHP if you wish. It is switched off by default as it can represent a huge security hole. This would allow scripts to run in a properly managed hig-load ready web site. sure - i would only use php for things like auto-generating tables and entries on a page from things like disk contents (put tarballs in a dir - the download page links etc. are generated from that) I know there's a web list, but I first wanted to discuss this here, since it involves possibly moving servers. Let me know what ya'll think. and finally i'm getting back to it... hooray! :) some of this will be solved soon - the question is how to move forward from there? how do we make it easier for people to provide news and articles? xsm has not proven effective so far in making that happen. what can we do? Is this XSM that has proved ineffective or the CMS genre? (open question :) ) i really don't know. i am hoping for input. is it because xsm has not been open enough? (don't think so) - is it's ui too hard to use? is it too much - where all we need is a add news articles and pages (wiki-style)? is it just that xsm was hard to use because of the slow rsync to sf.net? i am making no claims one way or another EXCEPT that we have not built a willing army of contributors to the website :) Andy -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:22:33 +0100 Andrew Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:03:01 +0200 (CEST) Vincent Torri [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: [snip] if we had something that would allow to edit the TODO file or something similar so all the bug reporting went through cvs and the bugs were put where they are trivially accessible - maybe - but to date that system doesn't exist as best i know - so someone would need to write it. There was a TODO parser written and it has been used on the e.org site for testing - it was just never released. At the time it would not have integrated well, as there was no internal scripting available to XSM sites, but now it is all possible... oh - i know - but got a way to insert bug reports into the TODO? that is my point - not just read only but read/write. :) -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:38:30 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed that, and I've also noticed a couple of other things that may not be so apparent to you guys. There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. I thought about this a little and this is how I think this site should be layed out: about - general - e16 - e17 - efl users - news - screenshots - documentation - download - e16 - e17 - themes - backgrounds - etc... developers - news - documentation - core libraries - widget sets - programming guides/howtos - api references - todo items - cvs bugs contact us Here's a little bit about these items about: small introduction to e. Don't go into details, that's for the documentation. news both in users and developers. Generally this news differs. You should have two checkboxes for each news item, allowing you to post it either to only one of the two, or to both. documentation in both places. user documentation is not developer documentation so they should be separate. screenshots: a mini-gallery sort of thing. maybe with videos too download: both releases and daily (nightly) snapshots. api references: maybe they should be rebuilt automatically? (or maybe just manualy, but we all know where that leads to :) ) todo items should be automatically extracted from the TODO files of each application/library. cvs: maybe a web ui for cvs along with info on how to get it bugs: small 'contact us' sort of thingie. user is required to fill in what he sees in an image (to prevent spam). Once he posts, this is automatically routed to the devel list, or maybe some new ml created just for that (since people will probably send lots of useless reports, report bugs that have been fixed, complain about e not building because they don't have foo etc.). Let them upload a core, etc. the other items should be fairly self explanatory. So here are a couple of sugestions about this stuff: 1) Don't bother with a cute interface to edit content. Just use a markup language. (like you edit a wiki) 2) news can be posted, either from an application (with a web service) or from an email (with some encryption). First would probably be easier. 3) you can use a webservice to allow users to download and install themes etc. directly from www.enlightenment.org 4) api references should be automatically generated, speaking of automatic here's another idea (or brainfart, depending on how you see it) 5) have the server try to build the current version of e (or maybe a separate build machine). Constantly show a status of what builds and doesnt build on www.enlightenment.org (sorry if this is too SF, just a thought) 6) todo items come from the TODO files. maybe use the same markup in the todo files as well. you could do it both ways (add todo items in the files based on bug reports) Now ... I can't say all of this stuff is easy to build. But it can be built. I think I could actually make a page like what I've just babbled about for enlightenment. It would require quite a bit of time. But I need the RoR experience and any way to help you guys out would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside :d If you want this to happen quick then just go for an existing CMS or wever, if you think you this stuff is actually worthwhile (worth the wait) then let me know, let's discuss what you guys need and I'll begin working on it ;) Cheers, Eugen. On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: As many may have noticed, e's official website, enlightenmnet.org is pretty painfully out of date. The screenshots on the front page are all from e16, and there have been a total of 3 news items this year. yup. i have been mulling what to do about this for a while. FYI we are getting a new box - donated to us from coolcheeze (from the arcane linux project - he also does consulting and box building). a fairly beefy box. it will be on 100mbit at osuosl and has a fair bit of juice (dual opteron, 2gb ram, sata raid). i am thinking 1. anoncvs will move here. 2. move www for e.org here - now we have 100% control over what we can run and how it runs. we can trivially run scripts to auto-build daily tarballs (make dist ones) and more. i think this may make a good case for e.org re-vamps to accommodate such things - and maybe a complete re-design. our current layout has been with us for many
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:38:30 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed that, and I've also noticed a couple of other things that may not be so apparent to you guys. There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. I thought about this a little and this is how I think this site should be layed out: about - general - e16 - e17 - efl users - news - screenshots - documentation - download - e16 - e17 - themes - backgrounds - etc... developers - news - documentation - core libraries - widget sets - programming guides/howtos - api references - todo items - cvs bugs contact us Here's a little bit about these items about: small introduction to e. Don't go into details, that's for the documentation. news both in users and developers. Generally this news differs. You should have two checkboxes for each news item, allowing you to post it either to only one of the two, or to both. documentation in both places. user documentation is not developer documentation so they should be separate. screenshots: a mini-gallery sort of thing. maybe with videos too download: both releases and daily (nightly) snapshots. api references: maybe they should be rebuilt automatically? (or maybe just manualy, but we all know where that leads to :) ) todo items should be automatically extracted from the TODO files of each application/library. cvs: maybe a web ui for cvs along with info on how to get it bugs: small 'contact us' sort of thingie. user is required to fill in what he sees in an image (to prevent spam). Once he posts, this is automatically routed to the devel list, or maybe some new ml created just for that (since people will probably send lots of useless reports, report bugs that have been fixed, complain about e not building because they don't have foo etc.). Let them upload a core, etc. the other items should be fairly self explanatory. So here are a couple of sugestions about this stuff: 1) Don't bother with a cute interface to edit content. Just use a markup language. (like you edit a wiki) 2) news can be posted, either from an application (with a web service) or from an email (with some encryption). First would probably be easier. 3) you can use a webservice to allow users to download and install themes etc. directly from www.enlightenment.org 4) api references should be automatically generated, speaking of automatic here's another idea (or brainfart, depending on how you see it) 5) have the server try to build the current version of e (or maybe a separate build machine). Constantly show a status of what builds and doesnt build on www.enlightenment.org (sorry if this is too SF, just a thought) 6) todo items come from the TODO files. maybe use the same markup in the todo files as well. you could do it both ways (add todo items in the files based on bug reports) Now ... I can't say all of this stuff is easy to build. But it can be built. I think I could actually make a page like what I've just babbled about for enlightenment. It would require quite a bit of time. But I need the RoR experience and any way to help you guys out would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside :d If you want this to happen quick then just go for an existing CMS or wever, if you think you this stuff is actually worthwhile (worth the wait) then let me know, let's discuss what you guys need and I'll begin working on it ;) Cheers, Eugen. On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: As many may have noticed, e's official website, enlightenmnet.org is pretty painfully out of date. The screenshots on the front page are all from e16, and there have been a total of 3 news items this year. yup. i have been mulling what to do about this for a while. FYI we are getting a new box - donated to us from coolcheeze (from the arcane linux project - he also does consulting and box building). a fairly beefy box. it will be on 100mbit at osuosl and has a fair bit of juice (dual opteron, 2gb ram, sata raid). i am thinking 1. anoncvs will move here. 2. move www for e.org here - now we have 100% control over what we can run and how it runs. we can trivially run scripts to auto-build daily tarballs (make dist ones) and more. i think this may make a good case for e.org re-vamps to accommodate such things - and maybe a complete re-design. our current layout has been with us for many
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:22:36 +0100 Andrew Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: I know Ben (the peudo-official web maintainer) has been super busy with work and Opensolaris, and has a personal distaste for CMSs (such as the one e.org currently uses, XSM). I believe the whole point of originally moving to a CMS was to allow a much larger group of people to contribute to the site's content, but that hasn't happened yet. indeed. i am wondering if it ever will. maybe the experiment failed? Whether this particular implementation of the experiment failed or not I think it is unwise to be going back to web-in-cvs as it was far harder to use! well i'd agree that web in cvs likely is a bad idea again (though benr thinks it was great) :) Finally, I think we need some sort of intro doc on how to use XSM, and a small guideline doc on what goes where on the website. sure - either that or not use xsm? xsm has been good - it has solved problems. it will run much better locally on the same box, but will it scale nicely to auto-listing generated tarball snapshots from a directory for us? we will need to pre-generate pages from templates in scripts, or do them dynamically with php etc. (much like enlightenment.freedesktop.org does - its very simple php to collate a set of generated tarballs) XSM supports embedded PHP if you wish. It is switched off by default as it can represent a huge security hole. This would allow scripts to run in a properly managed hig-load ready web site. sure - i would only use php for things like auto-generating tables and entries on a page from things like disk contents (put tarballs in a dir - the download page links etc. are generated from that) I know there's a web list, but I first wanted to discuss this here, since it involves possibly moving servers. Let me know what ya'll think. and finally i'm getting back to it... hooray! :) some of this will be solved soon - the question is how to move forward from there? how do we make it easier for people to provide news and articles? xsm has not proven effective so far in making that happen. what can we do? Is this XSM that has proved ineffective or the CMS genre? (open question :) ) i really don't know. i am hoping for input. is it because xsm has not been open enough? (don't think so) - is it's ui too hard to use? is it too much - where all we need is a add news articles and pages (wiki-style)? is it just that xsm was hard to use because of the slow rsync to sf.net? i am making no claims one way or another EXCEPT that we have not built a willing army of contributors to the website :) Well, I'm not a big fan of 'do it a different way' unless there are a lot of reasons to change. I used to make some updates on the web page. When it moved to XSM I need to get a different account... and learn some XSM... etc. I don't presently have an account, so you can see where I got stuck. :) Andrew Williams wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: I know Ben (the peudo-official web maintainer) has been super busy with work and Opensolaris, and has a personal distaste for CMSs (such as the one e.org currently uses, XSM). I believe the whole point of originally moving to a CMS was to allow a much larger group of people to contribute to the site's content, but that hasn't happened yet. indeed. i am wondering if it ever will. maybe the experiment failed? Whether this particular implementation of the experiment failed or not I think it is unwise to be going back to web-in-cvs as it was far harder to use! Well I'd suggest you are biased towards XSM. ;) If benr finds XSM more ...(insert whatever keeps him away from e.org presently) and I haven't been using it either, there are two votes for the overall system is in some ways harder to use now. Maybe another way to look at it, is that developers who update the web sites are already using cvs/svn day to day, so that isn't really harder for them. If you're more of a CMS person, you are probably more comfortable using that infrastructure. -- Kevin - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:04:13 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:38:30 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed that, and I've also noticed a couple of other things that may not be so apparent to you guys. There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. I thought about this a little and this is how I think this site should be layed out: about - general - e16 - e17 - efl users - news - screenshots - documentation - download - e16 - e17 - themes - backgrounds - etc... developers - news - documentation - core libraries - widget sets - programming guides/howtos - api references - todo items - cvs bugs contact us Here's a little bit about these items about: small introduction to e. Don't go into details, that's for the documentation. news both in users and developers. Generally this news differs. You should have two checkboxes for each news item, allowing you to post it either to only one of the two, or to both. documentation in both places. user documentation is not developer documentation so they should be separate. screenshots: a mini-gallery sort of thing. maybe with videos too download: both releases and daily (nightly) snapshots. api references: maybe they should be rebuilt automatically? (or maybe just manualy, but we all know where that leads to :) ) todo items should be automatically extracted from the TODO files of each application/library. cvs: maybe a web ui for cvs along with info on how to get it bugs: small 'contact us' sort of thingie. user is required to fill in what he sees in an image (to prevent spam). Once he posts, this is automatically routed to the devel list, or maybe some new ml created just for that (since people will probably send lots of useless reports, report bugs that have been fixed, complain about e not building because they don't have foo etc.). Let them upload a core, etc. the other items should be fairly self explanatory. So here are a couple of sugestions about this stuff: 1) Don't bother with a cute interface to edit content. Just use a markup language. (like you edit a wiki) 2) news can be posted, either from an application (with a web service) or from an email (with some encryption). First would probably be easier. 3) you can use a webservice to allow users to download and install themes etc. directly from www.enlightenment.org 4) api references should be automatically generated, speaking of automatic here's another idea (or brainfart, depending on how you see it) 5) have the server try to build the current version of e (or maybe a separate build machine). Constantly show a status of what builds and doesnt build on www.enlightenment.org (sorry if this is too SF, just a thoughe.t) 6) todo items come from the TODO files. maybe use the same markup in the todo files as well. you could do it both ways (add todo items in the files based on bug reports) Oh todo items could also come from a web service. You could have a 'report a bug' application that send the bug report all the way into the TODO. Now ... I can't say all of this stuff is easy to build. But it can be built. I think I could actually make a page like what I've just babbled about for enlightenment. It would require quite a bit of time. But I need the RoR experience and any way to help you guys out would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside :d If you want this to happen quick then just go for an existing CMS or wever, if you think you this stuff is actually worthwhile (worth the wait) then let me know, let's discuss what you guys need and I'll begin working on it ;) Cheers, Eugen. On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: As many may have noticed, e's official website, enlightenmnet.org is pretty painfully out of date. The screenshots on the front page are all from e16, and there have been a total of 3 news items this year. yup. i have been mulling what to do about this for a while. FYI we are getting a new box - donated to us from coolcheeze (from the arcane linux project - he also does consulting and box building). a fairly beefy box. it will be on 100mbit at osuosl and has a fair bit of juice (dual opteron, 2gb ram, sata raid). i am thinking 1.
[E-devel] e17 feature request
Hello all, When windows have titles that are of considerable length (Firefox @ Fark and XMMS whilst streaming are notable culprits), the window list dialog can be rather wide, cumbersomely so. I am requesting the feature that the window listing dialog is limited to a max width, with the offending window title being truncated in some manner. Also, if the max width could be user definable through the configuration menu, with the option of no truncation, it would allow the user to set it to their preference. Thank you for your time. Best regards, Cameron Toaster Frazier - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org I always thought proper to way to do this was to have http://get.enlightenment.org and http://develop.enlightenment.org thus using sub-domains rather than having 3 different entities. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] e17 feature request
Cameron Frazier wrote: Hello all, When windows have titles that are of considerable length (Firefox @ Fark and XMMS whilst streaming are notable culprits), the window list dialog can be rather wide, cumbersomely so. I am requesting the feature that the window listing dialog is limited to a max width, with the offending window title being truncated in some manner. Also, if the max width could be user definable through the configuration menu, with the option of no truncation, it would allow the user to set it to their preference. If this comes, it should be optional IMHO (as it was proposed). The window list may be wide, but at least for me the title bears some useful information. Especially now when there's a bug with the ibox/tasbar/titlebar which makes them confuse the application icons. At the moment, almost all of my about 20 windows are shown with the terminal icon, which makes them hard to distinguish without a title ;-). I guess it has to do with the FDO stuff that is in the progress of being implemented/rewritten. I guess I should send a different post for that bug... Cheers, Nick. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 08:23:34AM -0500, Alberto Castro wrote: Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org I always thought proper to way to do this was to have http://get.enlightenment.org and http://develop.enlightenment.org thus using sub-domains rather than having 3 different entities. I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started serving content. I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that :) ) As far as nomenclature, edevelop.org has aggregated developer blogs and user forums. get-e.org has user documentation and themes/icons/etc. So, you can't actually get e on get-e (of course this will probably change once its released...) and little development goes on on e-develop. :) Just some observations. (None of this is meant as criticism, both sites fullfill needed roles at the moment). rephorm. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] update of ja.po for e16
Yasufumi Haga wrote: Hi all This is an update of ja.po for e16 as of September 11. Thanks, committed :) You are aware that there are a number of untranslated (fuzzy marked) items, like the labels in the new combined settings dialog, right? /Kim - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] update of ja.po for e16
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:28:14 +0200, Kim Woelders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Yasufumi Haga wrote: | Hi all | | This is an update of ja.po for e16 as of | September 11. | | Thanks, committed :) | | You are aware that there are a number of untranslated (fuzzy marked) | items, like the labels in the new combined settings dialog, right? Yes, I'm aware that there are some fuzzy entries in my ja.po file. One reason is that I can't find the new dialog. I guessed it wasn't implemented yet because there was no menu entry to show the dialog in the menu shown by clicking the background. How can I display the dialog? Is it already available? The other reason is that I can't make use of the composite function of X because the X I'm using is a bit old and don't have the function. :) So the composite function stuffs are untranslated in my ja.po file. Regards. --- Thank you for telling me the truth. --- HAL9000 in 2010 Yasufumi Haga [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://homepage3.nifty.com/peterpan/ fingerprint:0EFA 299A BC32 7D68 1FEF BA2B 804E 9B15 C4F0 F9F0 pgp3yyBMkPGRQ.pgp Description: PGP signature - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] evas / svg configure issue and solution
Attached is a patch that should fix this once and for all. On Wed, 30 Aug 2006, D. Hageman wrote: On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:27:34 -0500 (CDT) D. Hageman dhageman@dracken.com babbled: I mentioned before the weekend that I was having some issues with the SVG in evas with Fedora Core 5. I finally found the time to investigate the issue some more, but I am not sure how to fix it. Essentially this solves the problem: 944c944 PKG_CHECK_MODULES(CAIRO_SVG, cairo-svg, --- PKG_CHECK_MODULES(CAIRO_SVG, libsvg-cairo, Fedora Core calls their cairo-svg ... libsvg-cairo. I am not well versed enough in autofoo to make both of those happy. in cvs - check that it's working for you. Still not completely happy yet ... In file included from evas_image_load_svg.c:4: /usr/include/librsvg-2/librsvg/rsvg-cairo.h:28:19: error: cairo.h: No such file or directory In file included from evas_image_load_svg.c:4: /usr/include/librsvg-2/librsvg/rsvg-cairo.h:33: error: expected declaration specifiers or '...' before 'cairo_t' /usr/include/librsvg-2/librsvg/rsvg-cairo.h:36: error: expected declaration specifiers or '...' before 'cairo_t' I will try to get some time tomorrow to do more investigation if you don't have any ideas of the top of your head. I appreciate you looking into this. -- //\\ || D. Hagemandhageman@dracken.com || \\//diff -ruN evas.orig/configure.in evas/configure.in --- evas.orig/configure.in 2006-09-11 11:10:42.0 -0500 +++ evas/configure.in 2006-09-11 11:11:11.0 -0500 @@ -936,7 +936,7 @@ svg_libs=$SVG_LIBS $CAIRO_SVG_LIBS ], [ -PKG_CHECK_MODULES(CAIRO_SVG, libsvg-cairo, +PKG_CHECK_MODULES(LIBSVG_CAIRO, libsvg-cairo, [ have_svg=yes svg_cflags=$SVG_CFLAGS $LIBSVG_CAIRO_CFLAGS - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] update of ja.po for e16
Yasufumi Haga wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:28:14 +0200, Kim Woelders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Yasufumi Haga wrote: | Hi all | | This is an update of ja.po for e16 as of | September 11. | | Thanks, committed :) | | You are aware that there are a number of untranslated (fuzzy marked) | items, like the labels in the new combined settings dialog, right? Yes, I'm aware that there are some fuzzy entries in my ja.po file. One reason is that I can't find the new dialog. I guessed it wasn't implemented yet because there was no menu entry to show the dialog in the menu shown by clicking the background. How can I display the dialog? Is it already available? Unless you have customized the default settings menu (right click) it should be the top item. Otherwise you should get it from $ eesh misc cfg /Kim - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] update of ja.po for e16
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:14:24 +0200, Kim Woelders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | Yasufumi Haga wrote: | On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:28:14 +0200, | Kim Woelders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | | Yasufumi Haga wrote: | | Hi all | | | | This is an update of ja.po for e16 as of | | September 11. | | | | Thanks, committed :) | | | | You are aware that there are a number of untranslated (fuzzy marked) | | items, like the labels in the new combined settings dialog, right? | | Yes, I'm aware that there are some fuzzy entries in my ja.po file. | One reason is that I can't find the new dialog. I guessed it wasn't | implemented yet because there was no menu entry to show the dialog in | the menu shown by clicking the background. How can I display the | dialog? Is it already available? | | Unless you have customized the default settings menu (right click) it | should be the top item. Otherwise you should get it from | $ eesh misc cfg Ah, yes. I've forgotten changing my menu. Thanks, Kim. I've found the dialog by your help. Isn't it Cool! I like it :) I'll post the new translation within a few days or so. Regards. --- Thank you for telling me the truth. --- HAL9000 in 2010 Yasufumi Haga [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://homepage3.nifty.com/peterpan/ fingerprint:0EFA 299A BC32 7D68 1FEF BA2B 804E 9B15 C4F0 F9F0 - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] xrender_x11 engine: identity transform workaround
Hi, this is about the FIXME in evas_engine_xrender.c:493. If the depth of the surface is 1, we're passing a scaled variant of the identity matrix to the picture. All scaled variants of the identity should be treated the same in the render implementation, but apparently they aren't. I just fixed xorg-server so that setting a scaled variant of the identity is a no-op, too. That means if you pass the identity to XRenderSetPictureTransform(), the function will just exit and not use any transform at all. This might expose a in the render implementation raster experienced the source-depth == 1 bug in. I'd like to remove the FIXME and that chunk of code, since it's officially pointless. Should we really work around stupid driver bugs? It also won't work in xorg 7.2+ :D May I remove that chunk or do you want to keep it? Patch attached. Regards, Tilman -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? pgpES7rIixKRy.pgp Description: PGP signature - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] xrender_x11 engine: identity transform workaround
Tilman Sauerbeck [2006-09-11 19:55]:
May I remove that chunk or do you want to keep it? Patch attached.
Yeah, well, not quite attached. Now.
Regards,
Tilman
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Index: evas_engine_xrender.c
===
RCS file:
/cvs/e/e17/libs/evas/src/modules/engines/xrender_x11/evas_engine_xrender.c,v
retrieving revision 1.16
diff -u -p -r1.16 evas_engine_xrender.c
--- evas_engine_xrender.c 11 Sep 2006 15:24:54 - 1.16
+++ evas_engine_xrender.c 11 Sep 2006 17:48:27 -
@@ -487,22 +487,10 @@ _xr_render_surface_composite(Xrender_Sur
void
_xr_render_surface_copy(Xrender_Surface *srs, Xrender_Surface *drs, int sx,
int sy, int x, int y, int w, int h)
{
- XTransform xf;
XRenderPictureAttributes att;
if ((w = 0) || (h = 0) || (!srs) || (!drs)) return;
- /* FIXME: why do we need to change the identity matrix ifthe src surface
-* is 1 bit deep?
-*/
- if (srs-depth == 1)
- {
- init_transform(xf);
- xf.matrix[0][0] = xf.matrix[1][1] = xf.matrix[2][2] = 1;
- XRenderSetPictureTransform(srs-xinf-disp, srs-pic, xf);
- }
-
-
att.clip_mask = None;
XRenderChangePicture(srs-xinf-disp, srs-pic, CPClipMask, att);
XRenderChangePicture(srs-xinf-disp, drs-pic, CPClipMask, att);
pgph52MrzWVA2.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users. I agree that there should not be a get-e.org, but there is. It's far more political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is this: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. It does have the advantage of serving static pages. I couldn't name any other advantages, though. Then again, no one has seen fit to provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with an account, so... I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 08:51:54 (-0500), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started serving content. Pet projects. I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that :) ) Not exactly, but close enough. Like I said, it was more political than practical. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- If we keep silent, if we mass-defect, these very rocks will scream, 'God is not a secret to be kept!' And would I wash my hands again? Would I deny my Savior when He hung inside the public square? Did not my silence put Him there? -- Newsboys - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Sep 11, 2006, at 6:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 08:23:34AM -0500, Alberto Castro wrote: Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get- e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org I always thought proper to way to do this was to have http://get.enlightenment.org and http://develop.enlightenment.org thus using sub-domains rather than having 3 different entities. I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started serving content. I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that :) ) snip Indeed, this is why edevelop.org exists. It provides facilities that were previously not viable on enlightenment.org. We also didn't have control of the DNS at that time either. I agree with Eugen. Ruby on Rails is the way to go, it provides a framework that almost any web developer in the future can look at and go Ok, Ruby on Rails, I know how this is structured. It's also very nice to code in, and there are man ways to provide content. There are some pseudo-CMS that provide just the minimal framework to allow content to be added so that they don't get in the way of the rest of your code such as: http://radiantcms.org/ I have nothing against Andy, but personally I can't stand using XSM. It's unintuitive and cumbersome to work with. In my experience it's also been painfully slow. I don't think it's even worth discussing going back to the old CVS/HTML setup. The point is to encourage _casual_ contribution, not to make it hard, which it seems like that's all we've done so far. The benefit of using Ruby on Rails is that we can leverage a lot of code that exists as gems or plugins but still build it exactly the way we need. We'll be able to provide all of features of get-e.org and edevelop.org in one place, in a coherent way. I would love to help with this. -Blake - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Sep 11, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Michael Jennings wrote: snip Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. snip Huh? Could you elaborate on what is broken about Rake? -Blake - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 11:04:13 (-0700), Blake Barnett wrote: I don't think it's even worth discussing going back to the old CVS/HTML setup. The point is to encourage _casual_ contribution, not to make it hard, which it seems like that's all we've done so far. CVS has several advantages: - Account management is only in one spot (CVS write access) - Ben R. will use it (who singlehandedly did more site updates in the average month than XSM has seen in its entire lifespan on E.org) - Still serves static pages - Site could auto-update periodically from CVS - Developers are comfortable with the process - No more CMS wars (!!) - Gobs and gobs of tools exist to work with CVS in any number of ways - Translates easily to any SCM system - Revision control for web content with the same features as code! And let's face it: Getting write access to CVS is easier now than it's EVER been. Assuming the person granting you access doesn't screw up, of course... :-) Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- Can you stay for awhile? Try to imagine this. Could you be for awhile? I can't remember it. Could you fall for awhile? 'Cause I can't escape from this. -- Jars of Clay, Portrait of an Apology - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 11:11:03 (-0700), Blake Barnett wrote: Could you elaborate on what is broken about Rake? I didn't say anything was broken about Rake. I said Rake was broken. And no, I won't elaborate, as that's off-topic for this list. I've discussed it previously on IRC. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- A woman broke up with me and sent me pictures of her and her new boyfriend in bed together. Solution? I sent them to her dad. -- Christopher Case - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
I know that it has been brought up before, and been scoffed at, but I would suggest a wiki setup, similar to what freedesktop.org, cairographics.org, etc. have. It seems to work well for them, and the content is quite good and informative. You can always restrict it to validated accounts if you are worried about spam/useless information. If you're worried about SQL, there are wiki's that don't require SQL, such as MoinMoin. On 9/11/06, Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users. I agree that there should not be a get-e.org, but there is. It's far more political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is this: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. It does have the advantage of serving static pages. I couldn't name any other advantages, though. Then again, no one has seen fit to provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with an account, so... I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 08:51:54 (-0500), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started serving content. Pet projects. I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that :) ) Not exactly, but close enough. Like I said, it was more political than practical. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- If we keep silent, if we mass-defect, these very rocks will scream, 'God is not a secret to be kept!' And would I wash my hands again? Would I deny my Savior when He hung inside the public square? Did not my silence put Him there? -- Newsboys - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Thomas Coppi Oh, I am a C programmer and I'm okay I muck with indices and structs all day And when it works, I shout hoo-ray Oh, I am a C programmer and I'm okay - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Sep 11, 2006, at 11:12 AM, Michael Jennings wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 11:04:13 (-0700), Blake Barnett wrote: I don't think it's even worth discussing going back to the old CVS/HTML setup. The point is to encourage _casual_ contribution, not to make it hard, which it seems like that's all we've done so far. CVS has several advantages: - Account management is only in one spot (CVS write access) And it requires giving everyone who wants to add a simple little news item access to everything in CVS (should normally be a problem... but.) - Ben R. will use it (who singlehandedly did more site updates in the average month than XSM has seen in its entire lifespan on E.org) Ben is quite fond of Ruby and Rails. Here's a quote from his blog: But the appeal of Ruby is just unresistable and I admit I'm headed in that direction more and more all the time. - Still serves static pages Ruby can serve static pages, for that matter, what web server can't? - Site could auto-update periodically from CVS So could a Rails site. - Developers are comfortable with the process Rephorm made his site in Rails, so did Atmos. Tilman is quite comfortable with it. Add to that, Eugen, me, and I'm sure quite a few others... - No more CMS wars (!!) Rails is not a CMS. - Gobs and gobs of tools exist to work with CVS in any number of ways For building a website?!?! - Translates easily to any SCM system - Revision control for web content with the same features as code! This is silly. Content revision control is quite easy to do. See: acts_as_revisioned heh And let's face it: Getting write access to CVS is easier now than it's EVER been. Assuming the person granting you access doesn't screw up, of course... :-) It's silly to get CVS access to do web updates. Welcome to 2006. -Blake - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:04:22 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users. I agree that there should not be a get-e.org, but there is. It's far more political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is this: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. It does have the advantage of serving static pages. I couldn't name any other advantages, though. Then again, no one has seen fit to provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with an account, so... I can cache pages with Rails (quite easily). That should pretty much give you the same speed and is better because it keeps the data in the database too. We could also do a dozen things which would take a million years to do with something like PHP. There is lots of code already written for Rails, which can easily be plugged in. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. You've told me this before. Rake works for me and just about anyone else I know. True, I use gems but I've used debian packages in the past and it still works fine. What exactly is wrong with it? IIRC you had problems of some kind with building it. I've used it from debian packages, *buntu packages and I've used a FreeBSD port so other people don't seem to have this problem (or they seem to have packages) Ruby is 11 years old. It's as stable as stable gets. I need Rake to develop but you guys shouldn't need it to deploy. It's also not part of the Ruby distribution so I don't see why you should blame Ruby for your issues with Rake. And it's not 'fundamental' in any way, if you ask me. Now about Rails. It's pretty new but catchy as hell, there are a lot of developers out there already. It lets you do very advanced stuff in very simple ways. It structures web development by design. And most of all, it's a framework, not just a language or a CMS. As for not many of you guys using Ruby, you could create a separate module in the repo to store the site. That should make it pretty easy for anyone to contribute to the site and improve it. On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 08:51:54 (-0500), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started serving content. Pet projects. I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that :) ) Not exactly, but close enough. Like I said, it was more political than practical. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- If we keep silent, if we mass-defect, these very rocks will scream, 'God is not a secret to be kept!' And would I wash my hands again? Would I deny my Savior when He hung inside the public square? Did not my silence put Him there? -- Newsboys - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Eugen Minciu wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:04:22 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users. I agree that there should not be a get-e.org, but there is. It's far more political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is this: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. It does have the advantage of serving static pages. I couldn't name any other advantages, though. Then again, no one has seen fit to provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with an account, so... I can cache pages with Rails (quite easily). That should pretty much give you the same speed and is better because it keeps the data in the database too. We could also do a dozen things which would take a million years to do with something like PHP. There is lots of code already written for Rails, which can easily be plugged in. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. You've told me this before. Rake works for me and just about anyone else I know. True, I use gems but I've used debian packages in the past and it still works fine. What exactly is wrong with it? IIRC you had problems of some kind with building it. I've used it from debian packages, *buntu packages and I've used a FreeBSD port so other people don't seem to have this problem (or they seem to have packages) Ruby is 11 years old. It's as stable as stable gets. I need Rake to develop but you guys shouldn't need it to deploy. It's also not part of the Ruby distribution so I don't see why you should blame Ruby for your issues with Rake. And it's not 'fundamental' in any way, if you ask me. Now about Rails. It's pretty new but catchy as hell, there are a lot of developers out there already. It lets you do very advanced stuff in very simple ways. It structures web development by design. And most of all, it's a framework, not just a language or a CMS. As for not many of you guys using Ruby, you could create a separate module in the repo to store the site. That should make it pretty easy for anyone to contribute to the site and improve it. On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 08:51:54 (-0500), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started serving content. Pet projects. I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that :) ) Not exactly, but close enough. Like I said, it was more political than practical. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- If we keep silent, if we mass-defect, these very rocks will scream, 'God is not a secret to be kept!' And would I wash my hands again? Would I deny my Savior when He hung inside the public square? Did not my silence put Him there? -- Newsboys - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 11:41:51 (-0700), Blake Barnett wrote: And it requires giving everyone who wants to add a simple little news item access to everything in CVS (should normally be a problem... but.) So? Like write access is any big deal. Raster wants it given out like candy. Ben is quite fond of Ruby and Rails. Here's a quote from his blog: But the appeal of Ruby is just unresistable and I admit I'm headed in that direction more and more all the time. Apparently you're confused. I was providing advantages of CVS, not disadvantages of Ruby or whatever else it is you're trying to rebut. Ruby can serve static pages, for that matter, what web server can't? Still confused. So could a Rails site. Still confused. Rephorm made his site in Rails, so did Atmos. Tilman is quite comfortable with it. Add to that, Eugen, me, and I'm sure quite a few others... SC. Rails is not a CMS. SC. - Gobs and gobs of tools exist to work with CVS in any number of ways For building a website?!?! Ah, finally something relevant to my comments. Tools for CVS allow for editing of content in CVS and committing said content to CVS. So yes, in that sense, for building a website. This is silly. Content revision control is quite easy to do. You'd think that...but you'd be wrong. Even with tools like Trac, which supposedly integrate with SVN, content versioning is always linear. No branching. No tagging. No annotation. It's silly to get CVS access to do web updates. Welcome to 2006. http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 21:52:55 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: I can cache pages with Rails (quite easily). That should pretty much give you the same speed and is better because it keeps the data in the database too. Static pages mean no database. We could also do a dozen things which would take a million years to do with something like PHP. There is lots of code already written for Rails, which can easily be plugged in. There's also lots of code written for PHP which could be easily plugged in. And you'll find hyperbolic arguments carry little weight with me. You've told me this before. Rake works for me and just about anyone else I know. True, I use gems but I've used debian packages in the past and it still works fine. What exactly is wrong with it? If I ever decide to try packaging it again, I'll let you know. Ruby is 11 years old. It's as stable as stable gets. heh PHP is 12 years old, so by your argument, PHP wins, right? No, wait, Perl is 19 years old, so it must be more stable than either PHP or Ruby. So we should use that! No, wait, what about C... One of two things needs to happen: Choice 1, we bring back the CVS stuff and edit content that way. Choice 2, we have some type of online CMS with wiki-like capabilities so that anyone can contribute (with certain editors having veto authority). In the case of choice 2, it makes very little difference what the system is under the hood as long as it's easy to use and to contribute to. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- To err is human; to really louse things up requires Microsoft products. -- Alexander Pope, slightly paraphrased - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 14:56:45 (-0400), Christopher Michael wrote: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This I totally have to disagree with. It's not that we refuse to contribute, far from it. It's just that enlightenment.org doesn't have an active maintainer for us to send content to. Sorry, DH, but this is simply not true, at least according to HandyAndE. Whatever people may think of XSM, several people apparently have access to update it and could accept submissions. Get-E started because those who were writing the documentation didn't want to contribute it to E.org. I'm sure I could dig it up in my IRC logs if I had several hours to kill. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- I guess the time is right for us to say we'll take our time and live our lives together day by day. We'll make a wish and send it on a prayer. We know our dreams will all come true with love that we can share. -- Firehouse, Love of a Lifetime - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Michael Jennings wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 14:56:45 (-0400), Christopher Michael wrote: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This I totally have to disagree with. It's not that we refuse to contribute, far from it. It's just that enlightenment.org doesn't have an active maintainer for us to send content to. Sorry, DH, but this is simply not true, at least according to HandyAndE. Whatever people may think of XSM, several people apparently have access to update it and could accept submissions. Get-E started because those who were writing the documentation didn't want to contribute it to E.org. I'm sure I could dig it up in my IRC logs if I had several hours to kill. Michael KX, ahh I see. I was unaware of the reasons that get-e started, but all that aside, Perhaps I should have rephrased my statement then: It's not that I refuse to contribute :) Cheers, dh - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Sep 11, 2006, at 12:14 PM, Michael Jennings wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 11:41:51 (-0700), Blake Barnett wrote: And it requires giving everyone who wants to add a simple little news item access to everything in CVS (should normally be a problem... but.) So? Like write access is any big deal. Raster wants it given out like candy. Meh. Ben is quite fond of Ruby and Rails. Here's a quote from his blog: But the appeal of Ruby is just unresistable and I admit I'm headed in that direction more and more all the time. Apparently you're confused. I was providing advantages of CVS, not disadvantages of Ruby or whatever else it is you're trying to rebut. Heh... you are so fun to argue with. You said Ben wouldn't use anything but CVS/HTML. I rebutted that by quoting him saying something in contradiction with your statement. Add to that the fact that you called Ruby an immature language, and said that Rake sucks for some unrelated reason. Rephorm made his site in Rails, so did Atmos. Tilman is quite comfortable with it. Add to that, Eugen, me, and I'm sure quite a few others... SC. Not confused at all. You're just trying to side-step my response. Rails is not a CMS. SC. See above. - Gobs and gobs of tools exist to work with CVS in any number of ways For building a website?!?! Ah, finally something relevant to my comments. Tools for CVS allow for editing of content in CVS and committing said content to CVS. So yes, in that sense, for building a website. Running a website this way adds a huge hurdle that most casual contributors will simply pass by. It's not worth the effort. This is silly. Content revision control is quite easy to do. You'd think that...but you'd be wrong. Even with tools like Trac, which supposedly integrate with SVN, content versioning is always linear. No branching. No tagging. No annotation. Website content doesn't need tagging, branching or even necessarily revision control. You can easily add revisioned pages to websites with wikis, or whatever other method you want. The CODE for the website is another thing altogether, and I agree that CVS is a fine method of SCM for that. It's silly to get CVS access to do web updates. Welcome to 2006. http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/personal-attack.html You're no fun. ;) -Blake - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:27:11 (-0400), Christopher Michael wrote: KX, ahh I see. I was unaware of the reasons that get-e started, but all that aside, Perhaps I should have rephrased my statement then: It's not that I refuse to contribute :) As one of the few people actually writing docs these days, your opinion is of particular importance to me (and, IMHO, to this discussion). So why, other than the maintainer issue, haven't your docs been contributed to E.org? Is the maintainer issue the only one? For me personally, what stops me from messing with E.org is Rectang. Not XSM, necessarily...just the fact that I'm having to go through a company's portal server to edit independent project content on a separate server. (I also object to the coup-like fashion in which it appeared, but that's ancient history.) Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- A lot of times, men do things they don't want to do so the woman they're going out with will do things *they* don't want to do. -- Tim Allen - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] Website Heated Discussions
Not wanting to start a flamewar myself with this email but I wonder why it is that the Enlightenment crowd seem to be unable to hold meaningful discussions when it comes to policy decisions like this? Why not take a leaf from other, more successful (happier??) communities and try: 1) identify what is wrong 2) propose a list of possibilities that could solve the problem 3) open discussions / votes for a set period of time 4) collate and announce Surely this kind of scheme will result in a concensus (assuming of course that those involved are those that comment / vote). Just my 2p worth due to recent work in other communities. HandyAndE - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Hello folks, This email is not in direct response to any of the previous replies, it is the result of a discussion that took place on #edevelop between (mainly) shadoi, devilhorns, morlenxus, and myself (HandyAndy was also consulted, as he is directly concerned in all of this). The current situation is that we have e.org (terribly unmaintained), get-e.org (mainly user docs, themes, general resources), and edevelop (developer information, developer blogs, development news, info about development projects). The suggestion that took place on irc was mainly that we merge the three separate efforts into a single entity (e.org) and have the corresponding teams work together to do what they do best, maintain the content, keep it up to date, and make sure its in tip-top shape around the clock. This thread is currently discussing what to use, and how to do things. Our discussion on irc suggested that since we already have a general idea about who the team will consist of, we should primarily let that team (while keeping everyone up to speed via the mailing list) decide on what they would like to use and how things should be done. They will be updating e.org the most, so we should cater to what they will enjoy the most to make sure they do their jobs as best as possible. Prior to diving into the what to use discussion (which should be a new thread), the team, again using the mailing list so we can all chip in, should decide on how the new e.org should be organized and who will be doing what tasks. The team will coordinate internally and decide on who does what (and when) and will make sure that the website is always up to date and in mint condition. Let us try to work positively towards getting this entire matter on the right track so we can do more work and less rambling. Best Regards, CodeWarrior. -- Hisham Mardam Bey MSc (Computer Science) http://hisham.cc/ +9613609386 Codito Ergo Sum (I Code Therefore I Am) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 23:29:11 (+0300), Hisham Mardam Bey wrote: Prior to diving into the what to use discussion See, I don't think that's the conversation we should be having right now. We're using XSM right now. Unless there is some fundamental flaw in XSM that cannot be overcome, we need to stick with it. So if there are problems with XSM, let's identify them. 1. Speed This will be resolved when we go local, as best I can tell from playing with the demo. 2. Unintuitive? Blake says XSM's editing interface is unintuitive. I can see some room for improvement, but straight HTML in a textarea seems pretty intuitive to me, albeit not as user-friendly as it could be. There is a definite advantage to having one of the developers of the CMS we're using on our team. The problem is, everyone speaks in abstracts: It's painful! I don't like it! More specific (constructive!) criticisms will ultimately result in a more usable XSM as well as a better site for E. So...anyone want to start with #3? Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- I'll be leaving soon; it's hard to say when I'll return, and I don't want to lead you on. So if you feel the need, close your eyes and share this dream. It will be Eternity. -- Blessid Union of Souls, Forever for Tonight - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Hi,
i think we have three maintainers for now: Shadoi doing the development
stuff part, me and devilhorns doing the users stuff part. This can be
easily
moved to e.org. I think the main problem is that everyone want's to work
differently on e.org . Shadoi using ruby on rails (whatever this is, i
have no glue), me using plain html files in cvs and devilhorns... - well
he can talk for his own. I suggest to simply ask the maintainers, which
will work on e.org - us three. I accept that Handyandy wanted to talk
about that, but he don't maintain something. Even the other people here.
So for me, i would suggest using plain html files, which can be easily
committed to a cvs server, and that's it. There is some prework to do,
but this would be also need to do if we would switch to ${cms}.
So what do the others want to use?
Greets
Brian 'morlenxus' Miculcy
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 11:29:11PM +0300, Hisham Mardam Bey wrote:
Hello folks,
This email is not in direct response to any of the previous replies,
it is the result of a discussion that took place on #edevelop between
(mainly) shadoi, devilhorns, morlenxus, and myself (HandyAndy was also
consulted, as he is directly concerned in all of this).
The current situation is that we have e.org (terribly unmaintained),
get-e.org (mainly user docs, themes, general resources), and edevelop
(developer information, developer blogs, development news, info about
development projects).
The suggestion that took place on irc was mainly that we merge the
three separate efforts into a single entity (e.org) and have the
corresponding teams work together to do what they do best, maintain
the content, keep it up to date, and make sure its in tip-top shape
around the clock.
This thread is currently discussing what to use, and how to do things.
Our discussion on irc suggested that since we already have a general
idea about who the team will consist of, we should primarily let that
team (while keeping everyone up to speed via the mailing list) decide
on what they would like to use and how things should be done. They
will be updating e.org the most, so we should cater to what they will
enjoy the most to make sure they do their jobs as best as possible.
Prior to diving into the what to use discussion (which should be a
new thread), the team, again using the mailing list so we can all chip
in, should decide on how the new e.org should be organized and who
will be doing what tasks. The team will coordinate internally and
decide on who does what (and when) and will make sure that the website
is always up to date and in mint condition.
Let us try to work positively towards getting this entire matter on
the right track so we can do more work and less rambling.
Best Regards,
CodeWarrior.
--
Hisham Mardam Bey
MSc (Computer Science)
http://hisham.cc/
+9613609386
Codito Ergo Sum (I Code Therefore I Am)
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
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Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Sep 11, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Michael Jennings wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 23:29:11 (+0300), Hisham Mardam Bey wrote: Prior to diving into the what to use discussion See, I don't think that's the conversation we should be having right now. We're using XSM right now. Unless there is some fundamental flaw in XSM that cannot be overcome, we need to stick with it. So if there are problems with XSM, let's identify them. 1. Speed This will be resolved when we go local, as best I can tell from playing with the demo. 2. Unintuitive? Blake says XSM's editing interface is unintuitive. I can see some room for improvement, but straight HTML in a textarea seems pretty intuitive to me, albeit not as user-friendly as it could be. There is a definite advantage to having one of the developers of the CMS we're using on our team. The problem is, everyone speaks in abstracts: It's painful! I don't like it! More specific (constructive!) criticisms will ultimately result in a more usable XSM as well as a better site for E. So...anyone want to start with #3? 3. Foreign codebase. This is an old problem, where 1 person writes a huge chunk of code and then it's hard for a team to collaborate on it. If we want to be able to add features to merge the websites (get-e.org and edevelop.org), a move to a standard framework like Rails would make this easier for more people to contribute, add features, make changes, etc. Personally I can't invest time delving into the code for XSM, I've invested time in Rails because of it's community and standardized way of doing things. Andy told me he didn't have time to do most of these things. However, if the only thing we need is more updates, and a reorganization of information. By all means, stick with XSM! Maybe even merge get-e.org. But edevelop.org provides a lot more than what XSM is capable of. (And edevelop.org is fairly crappy in my opinion, Drupal has issues too. Another reason I'd like to work on a redesign.) Raster himself said he wanted to be able to add additional features to integrate the desktop and the website... -Blake - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 22:49:19 (+0200), Brian Miculcy wrote: I suggest to simply ask the maintainers, which will work on e.org - us three. So you three will forever be the only people working on e.org? I accept that Handyandy wanted to talk about that, but he don't maintain something. This kind of thinking is a great way to continue keeping people from contributing. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- I am I myself alone. I realize I never need [anyone]. Money, power, holy roads...Freedom puts my faith in none of the above. -- Duran Duran, None of the Above - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Brian Miculcy wrote:
Hi,
i think we have three maintainers for now: Shadoi doing the development
stuff part, me and devilhorns doing the users stuff part. This can be
easily
moved to e.org. I think the main problem is that everyone want's to work
differently on e.org . Shadoi using ruby on rails (whatever this is, i
have no glue), me using plain html files in cvs and devilhorns... - well
he can talk for his own. I suggest to simply ask the maintainers, which
will work on e.org - us three. I accept that Handyandy wanted to talk
about that, but he don't maintain something. Even the other people here.
So for me, i would suggest using plain html files, which can be easily
committed to a cvs server, and that's it. There is some prework to do,
but this would be also need to do if we would switch to ${cms}.
So what do the others want to use?
Greets
Brian 'morlenxus' Miculcy
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 11:29:11PM +0300, Hisham Mardam Bey wrote:
Hello folks,
This email is not in direct response to any of the previous replies,
it is the result of a discussion that took place on #edevelop between
(mainly) shadoi, devilhorns, morlenxus, and myself (HandyAndy was also
consulted, as he is directly concerned in all of this).
The current situation is that we have e.org (terribly unmaintained),
get-e.org (mainly user docs, themes, general resources), and edevelop
(developer information, developer blogs, development news, info about
development projects).
The suggestion that took place on irc was mainly that we merge the
three separate efforts into a single entity (e.org) and have the
corresponding teams work together to do what they do best, maintain
the content, keep it up to date, and make sure its in tip-top shape
around the clock.
This thread is currently discussing what to use, and how to do things.
Our discussion on irc suggested that since we already have a general
idea about who the team will consist of, we should primarily let that
team (while keeping everyone up to speed via the mailing list) decide
on what they would like to use and how things should be done. They
will be updating e.org the most, so we should cater to what they will
enjoy the most to make sure they do their jobs as best as possible.
Prior to diving into the what to use discussion (which should be a
new thread), the team, again using the mailing list so we can all chip
in, should decide on how the new e.org should be organized and who
will be doing what tasks. The team will coordinate internally and
decide on who does what (and when) and will make sure that the website
is always up to date and in mint condition.
Let us try to work positively towards getting this entire matter on
the right track so we can do more work and less rambling.
Best Regards,
CodeWarrior.
--
Hisham Mardam Bey
MSc (Computer Science)
http://hisham.cc/
+9613609386
Codito Ergo Sum (I Code Therefore I Am)
-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642
___
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-
Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
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For myself, I'd prefer either xsm or plain html. Xsm because I am used
to it from get-e.org and plain html because I'm familiar with that too
:) As far as Ruby on Rails I can't really say because I've never used it
before.
Also, I do not think that either benr or andy should be left out of
this. Benr because he is/was maintainer and may one day want/be able to
work on the site again. Andy because he's maintaining the xsm and can
also submit content himself. Granted the full time maintainers
should imho, have the most say as they will be using it most of the
time, but lets try not to exclude others that may want to help.
As far as rasties integrating the desktop/web site, I had some
discussion with him about this a while ago. Basically, the ultimate goal
is to integrate a live help system that would fetch updated faqs, help
files, etc etc and also allow users to add an faq
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 13:55:25 (-0700), Blake Barnett wrote: 3. Foreign codebase. This is an old problem, where 1 person writes a huge chunk of code and then it's hard for a team to collaborate on it. If we want to be able to add features to merge the websites (get-e.org and edevelop.org), a move to a standard framework like Rails would make this easier for more people to contribute, add features, make changes, etc. Personally I can't invest time delving into the code for XSM, I've invested time in Rails because of it's community and standardized way of doing things. Andy? Comments? Andy told me he didn't have time to do most of these things. However, if the only thing we need is more updates, and a reorganization of information. By all means, stick with XSM! Maybe even merge get-e.org. But edevelop.org provides a lot more than what XSM is capable of. (And edevelop.org is fairly crappy in my opinion, Drupal has issues too. Another reason I'd like to work on a redesign.) Raster himself said he wanted to be able to add additional features to integrate the desktop and the website... If we (primarily raster) decide that XSM does not do what we need, and can/will not do so any time soon, *then* other solutions come into play. Have we reached that point yet? I personally don't think we've heard nearly enough from HandyAndE to be there. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- Nerds make the best lovers. That's why I'm in Speed School. -- Angela Smith - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Well check the other thread, there you see what happens if everyone wants to spread in his position. After all some of us are really working with the system. I wouldn't like to use something which has been voted by people which would never use it. Brian On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 05:05:09PM -0400, Michael Jennings wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 22:49:19 (+0200), Brian Miculcy wrote: I suggest to simply ask the maintainers, which will work on e.org - us three. So you three will forever be the only people working on e.org? I accept that Handyandy wanted to talk about that, but he don't maintain something. This kind of thinking is a great way to continue keeping people from contributing. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- I am I myself alone. I realize I never need [anyone]. Money, power, holy roads...Freedom puts my faith in none of the above. -- Duran Duran, None of the Above - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 23:16:27 (+0200), Brian Miculcy wrote: Well check the other thread, there you see what happens if everyone wants to spread in his position. After all some of us are really working with the system. I wouldn't like to use something which has been voted by people which would never use it. And if we do things your way, no one will ever use it. You seem to be missing the fact that people who *want* to contribute currently *can't* for one reason or another. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- To err is human; to really louse things up requires root privileges. -- Alexander Pope, slightly paraphrased - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Ok, i can only speak for get-e.org xsm: The biggest problem was that people can only have access rights to a whole page, not only of a part if it. Check http://www0.get-e.org/Themes/E17/, if we give theme contributors access to that page, they can easily change the edje of other themes. As far as i know, this is a problem which can't be fixed for now. The theme contributors always had to wait until a maintainer uploaded their new version of a theme. I think this is a real limitation of xsm. I also don't want to decline people to talk in this thread, i just wanted to make sure, that this thread wouldn't be mainly a flamewar between people who never used xsm or ruby in rails nor maintained some website (e.org, get-e.org, edevelop.org). ;) Greets Brian On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 05:23:26PM -0400, Michael Jennings wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 23:16:27 (+0200), Brian Miculcy wrote: Well check the other thread, there you see what happens if everyone wants to spread in his position. After all some of us are really working with the system. I wouldn't like to use something which has been voted by people which would never use it. And if we do things your way, no one will ever use it. You seem to be missing the fact that people who *want* to contribute currently *can't* for one reason or another. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- To err is human; to really louse things up requires root privileges. -- Alexander Pope, slightly paraphrased - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Website Heated Discussions
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 09:11:19PM +0100, Andrew Williams wrote: Not wanting to start a flamewar myself with this email but I wonder why it is that the Enlightenment crowd seem to be unable to hold meaningful discussions when it comes to policy decisions like this? Why not take a leaf from other, more successful (happier??) communities and try: 1) identify what is wrong The wesbsite is horribly out of date. For whatever reason no one has stepped up to contribute. 2) propose a list of possibilities that could solve the problem A) Stick with XSM. Make the process of gaining editor access to e.org more transparent. Who currently has it? Who can grant it? B) Move to a different CMS. C) Move to a simple 'mostly static' site, with small snippets of php / insert language here for dynamic content (like auto-generated lists of releases, etc). There are several different types of 'content' we want on an e website. I) News updates II) Themes/Icons/etc. III) Documentation IV) EFL App pages (I) is served well by a CMS like interface (text box in a web form). (II) is better served (imo) by a set of forms for uploading / updating themes / icons. that way themers could control when their new theme gets released without requiring maintainer intervention. (III) Static pages + wiki (IV) Static pages Anyway, those are my opinions. How does XSM store the page content internally? It seems like many people dislike editing files in a text box. Is there any way it could use files on the fs? Then just have a cmd line script to compile the site? rephorm 3) open discussions / votes for a set period of time 4) collate and announce Surely this kind of scheme will result in a concensus (assuming of course that those involved are those that comment / vote). Just my 2p worth due to recent work in other communities. HandyAndE - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 22:49:19 +0200
Brian Miculcy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
i think we have three maintainers for now: Shadoi doing the development
stuff part, me and devilhorns doing the users stuff part. This can be
easily
moved to e.org. I think the main problem is that everyone want's to work
differently on e.org . Shadoi using ruby on rails (whatever this is, i
have no glue), me using plain html files in cvs and devilhorns... - well
he can talk for his own. I suggest to simply ask the maintainers, which
will work on e.org - us three. I accept that Handyandy wanted to talk
about that, but he don't maintain something. Even the other people here.
personal view
Ruby on Rails is a web application development framework. For more info see
http://www.rubyonrails.com. It's like the advanced brother of PHP. The really,
really advanced brother of PHP. It's not a CMS. It should allow you to build
anything you can think of.
You could continue to use XSM. But XSM is not a framework and adding
functionality to the site will get harder and harder.
You could use another CMS. Some are really nice to use but most have a bloated
interface (look at drupal or mambo or joomla).
You could use a wiki. But you can't do much with a wiki besides hosting
documentation. The site should have a screenshot gallery, a place to download
files etc. A wiki just isn't cut out for something like that.
You could use another framework or, gasp, PHP or Perl. It's just that Ruby on
Rails is familiar to some people. It doesn't really matter how many there are,
I don't see dozens of people commiting to XSM. If we build the site and it
works we've got what we wanted.
So far I see a lot of people on this list making two confusions.
1) A website is not composed just of documentation. It's not just based on
text. You can use HTML for that but if you want to integrate the desktop and
the website, if you want to integrate the code in CVS and the website, if you
want to integrate bug reports on the website and the mailing list, you can't
use HTML.
2) Ruby on Rails is a framework. With it, you develop and deploy a website.
From that point on, content in the site can be edited however we choose. It is
not a CMS. Just look at the link if you don't know much about RoR.
OK. So it's a framework. Here's what you can do with it.
a) You can develop your site in any way. You can thus edit your textual context
in any way ( be it HTML, Textile or something else ). It's not a CMS, you get
the choice to implement what you want.
b) You can integrate it with other things. You can use web services to
integrate it with the desktop. You can integrate it with the mailing list via
ActionMailer.
c) You can develop your own website. It's not just a place where you pile up
textual information. You can modify it to suit your own needs. And you have an
excellent codebase to begin with (the framework itself).
d) It's good. It's not just my opinion it's the opinion of many other people as
well.
e) It makes changing sites easy. If we decide we were wrong we can easily
'change our mind' in code as well, later.
/personal opinion
I could go on, but I'll stop here. I may be biased I may be wrong. Personally,
I don't think that just the people who are maintaining the site should decide
this. But they should all agree with the final solution.
Sorry if this is flaming,
Cheers,
Eugen.
So for me, i would suggest using plain html files, which can be easily
committed to a cvs server, and that's it. There is some prework to do,
but this would be also need to do if we would switch to ${cms}.
So what do the others want to use?
Greets
Brian 'morlenxus' Miculcy
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 11:29:11PM +0300, Hisham Mardam Bey wrote:
Hello folks,
This email is not in direct response to any of the previous replies,
it is the result of a discussion that took place on #edevelop between
(mainly) shadoi, devilhorns, morlenxus, and myself (HandyAndy was also
consulted, as he is directly concerned in all of this).
The current situation is that we have e.org (terribly unmaintained),
get-e.org (mainly user docs, themes, general resources), and edevelop
(developer information, developer blogs, development news, info about
development projects).
The suggestion that took place on irc was mainly that we merge the
three separate efforts into a single entity (e.org) and have the
corresponding teams work together to do what they do best, maintain
the content, keep it up to date, and make sure its in tip-top shape
around the clock.
This thread is currently discussing what to use, and how to do things.
Our discussion on irc suggested that since we already have a general
idea about who the team will consist of, we should primarily let that
team (while keeping everyone up to speed via the mailing list) decide
on what they would like to use and how things should be done. They
will be updating e.org
Re: [E-devel] Website Heated Discussions
On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 16:45 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] How does XSM store the page content internally? It seems like many people dislike editing files in a text box. Is there any way it could use files on the fs? Then just have a cmd line script to compile the site? It is stored in XML files, so it can be edited but you need to remember the encoding issues for HTML content. A - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Michael Jennings wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:27:11 (-0400), Christopher Michael wrote: KX, ahh I see. I was unaware of the reasons that get-e started, but all that aside, Perhaps I should have rephrased my statement then: It's not that I refuse to contribute :) As one of the few people actually writing docs these days, your opinion is of particular importance to me (and, IMHO, to this discussion). So why, other than the maintainer issue, haven't your docs been contributed to E.org? Is the maintainer issue the only one? The maintaner bit, afaik and imho, is the only issue. I have 95% of the new user guide ready to go. I'm waiting for E to settle a little bit, then I can complete the new guide with updated screenshots, etc, etc. Upon it's completion, who do I send it to? I know/hear that benr has been doing some occasional updates to e.org (at least in the past), but something like a user guide has to be kept up-to-date with cvs changes and such, so do I send him a new copy every day? Doubtful and a possible PITA for both he and I. The only viable solutions, imho, for this case would be to have either an active system where you can live update (xsm), or doing updates via cvs. Granted a wiki would be nice for users where they could update articles, add things, make corrections, etc, etc to help each other out but that gets into having someone to watch/check/verify submissions for accuracy. For me personally, what stops me from messing with E.org is Rectang. Not XSM, necessarily...just the fact that I'm having to go through a company's portal server to edit independent project content on a separate server. (I also object to the coup-like fashion in which it appeared, but that's ancient history.) Michael Personally, I don't mind using XSM at all. I find it very easy to use and has a nice interface. Granted, it does have some minor annoyances but once you get past them, it's rather nice. As far as editing e.org, I'd certainly help with the process. I think that a major part of it NOT getting updated currently, imho, is the whole sf.net issue(s). Like you said, going through a companies portal server to edit independent project content is cumbersome sometimes. If/when that donated server gets up and running with possibly the e site on it, then perhaps we could use an CMS without going through a portal. What ever the outcome of this decision is I'll be here :) Can't we all get along? :) Cheers, devilhorns - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] e: Using freedesktop.org .desktop files.
Carsten writes: 1. add api to evas itself to provide size hints to loaders (load at size XxY at maximum and retain aspect) as well as dpi hints (you will want both eventually). 2. add api to loaders to be able to do this. 3. actually use this api in the svg loader 4. for shits giggles try it in the jpeg loader too :) all of this done :) works. rsvg/cairo do have bugs with inkscape svg's that use clipping - they don't transform the clipped objects. :( so it only works at 90dpi (no scaling by rsvg/cairo) for those files i have. anyway - rscg/cairo bug Maybe do 4. for all image loaders (using the scaling funcs)? As to the rsvg/cairo bugs... Well, let's give them a break - they're trying to do some complex, messy stuff. No doubt they'll get whatever clipping issues worked out soon. Then maybe see if these svg files can be used as 'external' edje theme sources... :) I saw your mention of a vector renderer antigrain and looked it up.. Seems very complete, and very nice pictures. But it looks very large and complex - it may be larger than rsvg + glib + cairo. It also doesn't seem to be installed by default on most systems (wasn't on my SuSE 10). As to fast... well, that's a very relative term. It doesn't look like it was made with real-time gui-rendering in mind.. but who knows. NB - Update on the premul stuff: I've finished nearly all of it, but as grads were the objs most affected and required a considerable amount of reworking, I've taken the opportunity to address some grad things that came up during Brian's work on grads for edje. It may take me a couple more days to finish that up as well. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] E CVS: libs/evas tilman
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:42:39 -0400 (EDT) Enlightenment CVS
[EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:
did this change anything with your xrender output? i would expect not (simply
changing how the matrix is initted - content should be the same)
Enlightenment CVS committal
Author : tilman
Project : e17
Module : libs/evas
Dir : e17/libs/evas/src/modules/engines/xrender_x11
Modified Files:
evas_engine_xrender.c
Log Message:
cleaned up the transformation matrix code. use the proper x macro to convert
a double into a matrix component instead of hardcoding the bitshift. added
init_transform() which will initialize a matrix to the identity transform.
===
RCS
file:
/cvs/e/e17/libs/evas/src/modules/engines/xrender_x11/evas_engine_xrender.c,v
retrieving revision 1.12 retrieving revision 1.13
diff -u -3 -r1.12 -r1.13
--- evas_engine_xrender.c 7 Jun 2006 23:30:15 - 1.12
+++ evas_engine_xrender.c 11 Sep 2006 14:42:39 - 1.13
@@ -1,3 +1,6 @@
+/*
+ * vim:ts=8:sw=3:sts=8:noexpandtab:cino=5n-3f0^-2{2
+ */
#include evas_common.h
#include evas_macros.h
#include evas_private.h
@@ -330,6 +333,17 @@
free(rect);
}
+/* initialized the transform to the identity */
+static void init_transform (XTransform *t)
+{
+ int i, j;
+
+ for (i = 0; i 3; i++)
+ for (j = 0; j 3; j++)
+ t-matrix[i][j] = XDoubleToFixed((i == j) ? 1 : 0);
+}
+
+
// when color multiplier is used want: instead
// CA src IN mask SRC temp; non-CA temp OVER dst. - i think. need to check.
void
@@ -352,17 +366,7 @@
XRenderChangePicture(srs-xinf-disp, srs-pic, CPClipMask, att);
XRenderChangePicture(srs-xinf-disp, drs-pic, CPClipMask, att);
- id.matrix[0][0] = 1 16;
- id.matrix[0][1] = 0;
- id.matrix[0][2] = 0;
-
- id.matrix[1][0] = 0;
- id.matrix[1][1] = 1 16;
- id.matrix[1][2] = 0;
-
- id.matrix[2][0] = 0;
- id.matrix[2][1] = 0;
- id.matrix[2][2] = 1 16;
+ init_transform(id);
op = PictOpSrc;
if (srs-alpha) op = PictOpOver;
@@ -423,17 +427,9 @@
}
}
- xf.matrix[0][0] = (sw 16) / w;
- xf.matrix[0][1] = 0;
- xf.matrix[0][2] = 0;
-
- xf.matrix[1][0] = 0;
- xf.matrix[1][1] = (sh 16) / h;
- xf.matrix[1][2] = 0;
-
- xf.matrix[2][0] = 0;
- xf.matrix[2][1] = 0;
- xf.matrix[2][2] = 1 16;
+ xf = id;
+ xf.matrix[0][0] = XDoubleToFixed(sw) / w;
+ xf.matrix[1][1] = XDoubleToFixed(sh) / h;
_xr_render_surface_clips_set(drs, dc, x, y, w, h);
if (trs)
@@ -497,25 +493,19 @@
{
XTransform xf;
XRenderPictureAttributes att;
- int ident;
if ((w = 0) || (h = 0) || (!srs) || (!drs)) return;
- ident = 1 16;
+
+ init_transform(xf);
+
/* FIXME: why do we need to change the identity matrix ifthe src surface
* is 1 bit deep?
*/
- if (srs-depth == 1) ident = 1;
- xf.matrix[0][0] = ident;
- xf.matrix[0][1] = 0;
- xf.matrix[0][2] = 0;
-
- xf.matrix[1][0] = 0;
- xf.matrix[1][1] = ident;
- xf.matrix[1][2] = 0;
-
- xf.matrix[2][0] = 0;
- xf.matrix[2][1] = 0;
- xf.matrix[2][2] = ident;
+ if (srs-depth == 1)
+ {
+ xf.matrix[0][0] = xf.matrix[1][1] = xf.matrix[2][2] = 1;
+ }
+
XRenderSetPictureTransform(srs-xinf-disp, srs-pic, xf);
att.clip_mask = None;
-
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- Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am --
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
裸好多
Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)
-
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Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:04:22 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users. I agree that there should not be a get-e.org, but there is. It's far more political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is this: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. It does have the advantage of serving static pages. I couldn't name any other advantages, though. Then again, no one has seen fit to provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with an account, so... All you have to do is ask... :) but i think this may be an issue - xsm provides to automatic account creation (much like wiki's etc.) where you just register, provide an email, it mails back confirmation etc. etc. to make sure it's a real person, or even has an account approval queue - either way - it's a barrier of entry. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 08:51:54 (-0500), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started serving content. Pet projects. I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that :) ) Not exactly, but close enough. Like I said, it was more political than practical. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- If we keep silent, if we mass-defect, these very rocks will scream, 'God is not a secret to be kept!' And would I wash my hands again? Would I deny my Savior when He hung inside the public square? Did not my silence put Him there? -- Newsboys - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:03:47 +0100 Andrew Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 15:39 -0400, Michael Jennings wrote: For me personally, what stops me from messing with E.org is Rectang. Not XSM, necessarily...just the fact that I'm having to go through a company's portal server to edit independent project content on a separate server. Michael This is simply because there was nowhere else to host it at the time. When E gets it's own box XSM could be hosted there and edit locally which solves this issue and also the problems that folk have with the update time (sf.net upload is very very slow). (I also object to the coup-like fashion in which it appeared, but that's ancient history.) Not quite sure what you mean here... Raster approved the system as it solved the problems we are having at the time. In my opinion I think that this would be wise again - I am fed up of the CVS vs CMS vs WIKI debate *again*. It should simply be decided what the current system does not do properly and locate a solution that fixes that (without breaking things that XSM already solved). agreed (though since it's java it will be a royal PITA to get to work). but now i am postulating lets say performance improved... what else left is a barrier? so we can look at it and address it. eg - automatic self-service account creation eg - much better editing facilities (r - irc - tinymce issues vs. text editing www widget) Andy - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:39:23 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:27:11 (-0400), Christopher Michael wrote: KX, ahh I see. I was unaware of the reasons that get-e started, but all that aside, Perhaps I should have rephrased my statement then: It's not that I refuse to contribute :) As one of the few people actually writing docs these days, your opinion is of particular importance to me (and, IMHO, to this discussion). So why, other than the maintainer issue, haven't your docs been contributed to E.org? Is the maintainer issue the only one? For me personally, what stops me from messing with E.org is Rectang. Not XSM, necessarily...just the fact that I'm having to go through a company's portal server to edit independent project content on a separate server. (I also object to the coup-like fashion in which it appeared, but that's ancient history.) there were reasons - mostly thanks to sf.net and xsm happened to be at hand doing what was needed. anyway - it is history. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- A lot of times, men do things they don't want to do so the woman they're going out with will do things *they* don't want to do. -- Tim Allen - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:15:27 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 13:55:25 (-0700), Blake Barnett wrote: 3. Foreign codebase. This is an old problem, where 1 person writes a huge chunk of code and then it's hard for a team to collaborate on it. If we want to be able to add features to merge the websites (get-e.org and edevelop.org), a move to a standard framework like Rails would make this easier for more people to contribute, add features, make changes, etc. Personally I can't invest time delving into the code for XSM, I've invested time in Rails because of it's community and standardized way of doing things. Andy? Comments? Andy told me he didn't have time to do most of these things. However, if the only thing we need is more updates, and a reorganization of information. By all means, stick with XSM! Maybe even merge get-e.org. But edevelop.org provides a lot more than what XSM is capable of. (And edevelop.org is fairly crappy in my opinion, Drupal has issues too. Another reason I'd like to work on a redesign.) Raster himself said he wanted to be able to add additional features to integrate the desktop and the website... If we (primarily raster) decide that XSM does not do what we need, and can/will not do so any time soon, *then* other solutions come into play. Have we reached that point yet? I personally don't think we've heard nearly enough from HandyAndE to be there. agreed. i currently want to just move xsm locally to e.org - get it all up and running there and go from there. the question then is - once its up - how to kickstart life on e.org. we need to involve andy here as we are still using xsm and moving FROM it to something else will just be painful and xsm needs to show that it just isn't going to cut it (in the foreseeable future) and then some. 1 big thing we are going to have issues with xsm is forums. that i think will be a real hassle - the others - are just improvements on xsm as-is or will be solved in the move (permissions, account creation, speed, dynamic content in pages - eg downloads). -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:55:25 -0700 Blake Barnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Sep 11, 2006, at 1:41 PM, Michael Jennings wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 23:29:11 (+0300), Hisham Mardam Bey wrote: Prior to diving into the what to use discussion See, I don't think that's the conversation we should be having right now. We're using XSM right now. Unless there is some fundamental flaw in XSM that cannot be overcome, we need to stick with it. So if there are problems with XSM, let's identify them. 1. Speed This will be resolved when we go local, as best I can tell from playing with the demo. 2. Unintuitive? Blake says XSM's editing interface is unintuitive. I can see some room for improvement, but straight HTML in a textarea seems pretty intuitive to me, albeit not as user-friendly as it could be. There is a definite advantage to having one of the developers of the CMS we're using on our team. The problem is, everyone speaks in abstracts: It's painful! I don't like it! More specific (constructive!) criticisms will ultimately result in a more usable XSM as well as a better site for E. So...anyone want to start with #3? 3. Foreign codebase. This is an old problem, where 1 person writes a huge chunk of code and then it's hard for a team to collaborate on it. If we want to be able to add features to merge the websites (get-e.org and edevelop.org), a move to a standard framework like Rails would make this easier for more people to contribute, add features, make changes, etc. Personally I can't invest time delving into the code for XSM, I've invested time in Rails because of it's community and standardized way of doing things. would it? i would not agree. i would need to learn all of rails to do it. rails is a foreign codebase to me. i know enough php to get along. for anyone who knows perl, c or c++, php is almost a no-brainer. rails is not a silver bullet. it is simply a mechanism to do a dynamically generated website (much like php) in a way that you happen to like and prefer. that's great - for YOU! we need to focus on how much we can push xsm before it can't go any further. Andy told me he didn't have time to do most of these things. However, if the only thing we need is more updates, and a reorganization of information. By all means, stick with XSM! Maybe even merge get-e.org. But edevelop.org provides a lot more than what XSM is capable of. (And edevelop.org is fairly crappy in my opinion, Drupal has issues too. Another reason I'd like to work on a redesign.) Raster himself said he wanted to be able to add additional features to integrate the desktop and the website... -Blake - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:29:11 +0300 Hisham Mardam Bey [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hello folks, This email is not in direct response to any of the previous replies, it is the result of a discussion that took place on #edevelop between (mainly) shadoi, devilhorns, morlenxus, and myself (HandyAndy was also consulted, as he is directly concerned in all of this). The current situation is that we have e.org (terribly unmaintained), get-e.org (mainly user docs, themes, general resources), and edevelop (developer information, developer blogs, development news, info about development projects). The suggestion that took place on irc was mainly that we merge the three separate efforts into a single entity (e.org) and have the corresponding teams work together to do what they do best, maintain the content, keep it up to date, and make sure its in tip-top shape around the clock. This thread is currently discussing what to use, and how to do things. Our discussion on irc suggested that since we already have a general idea about who the team will consist of, we should primarily let that team (while keeping everyone up to speed via the mailing list) decide on what they would like to use and how things should be done. They will be updating e.org the most, so we should cater to what they will enjoy the most to make sure they do their jobs as best as possible. Prior to diving into the what to use discussion (which should be a new thread), the team, again using the mailing list so we can all chip in, should decide on how the new e.org should be organized and who will be doing what tasks. The team will coordinate internally and decide on who does what (and when) and will make sure that the website is always up to date and in mint condition. Let us try to work positively towards getting this entire matter on the right track so we can do more work and less rambling. agreed - let's find out what need to be fixed on a technical feature level - then address the best way TO fix it. let's ASSUME in our discussions that very soon we will have our own box (tm) to play with thus have complete freedom. one issues i see in merging them - 2 use xsm (fine) 1. uses drupal (php cms). edevelop's forums just can't function without dynamic www - xsm itself can't really scale there. so do we rewrite forum code in php to serve from xsm? do we have a split-personality site (not very attractive maintenance and design-wise). how do we merge the efforts into 1 cms (take that loosely) - or is it ever possible? Best Regards, CodeWarrior. -- Hisham Mardam Bey MSc (Computer Science) http://hisham.cc/ +9613609386 Codito Ergo Sum (I Code Therefore I Am) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 17:13:26 -0400 Christopher Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: For myself, I'd prefer either xsm or plain html. Xsm because I am used to it from get-e.org and plain html because I'm familiar with that too :) As far as Ruby on Rails I can't really say because I've never used it before. plain html is not an option - it doesn't scale. do you hand-edit every page to add a link in a navigation bar? you need some form of templating and auto-generation at least so things like navigation links are set up once and generated per page. (yes you can use frames - and i can also rip your limbs off with a blunt spoon too! :)) Also, I do not think that either benr or andy should be left out of this. Benr because he is/was maintainer and may one day want/be able to work on the site again. Andy because he's maintaining the xsm and can also submit content himself. Granted the full time maintainers should imho, have the most say as they will be using it most of the time, but lets try not to exclude others that may want to help. As far as rasties integrating the desktop/web site, I had some discussion with him about this a while ago. Basically, the ultimate goal is to integrate a live help system that would fetch updated faqs, help files, etc etc and also allow users to add an faq entry, or submit an updated help item. How this system will eventually pan out may have some bearing on how the site is handled, or it may not. Not much of this has been actively discussed yet, and I'm not trying to divert this discussion to there, just mentioning what I know. this would simply involve the www server serving plain files at known fixed url's (eg http://www/enlightenment.org/edata/faqs/faq.txt - would just be a text file with the faq formatted simply - maybe with minimal formatting etc. etc. - you get the idea - much like debian's apt repositories) so it's only a matter of providing such files at given well-known url's (and maybe providing indexes to them etc.). if faq's are user contributed via the www site - then the www site needs to be abel to process, and convert the faq's into such a format. until such a format is specified - it's a moot point :) /end_my_2_cents (for now) Cheers, devilhorns - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:37:24 +0200 Brian Miculcy [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Ok, i can only speak for get-e.org xsm: The biggest problem was that people can only have access rights to a whole page, not only of a part if it. Check http://www0.get-e.org/Themes/E17/, if we give theme contributors access to that page, they can easily change the edje of other themes. As far as i know, this is a problem which can't be fixed for now. The theme contributors always had to wait until a maintainer uploaded their new version of a theme. I think this is a real limitation of xsm. at last! someone is mentioning something that we need to address. xsm permissions model. maybe the page just needs to be split up into 3 pages? but xsm's permissions model is a little painful - if you want to give a new site maintainer access - you have to go to every page, 1 by 1, and add them in. it's unmanageable that way (last time i did it for onefang it took me ages). also remember - we likely want to be more permissive than restrictive. I also don't want to decline people to talk in this thread, i just wanted to make sure, that this thread wouldn't be mainly a flamewar between people who never used xsm or ruby in rails nor maintained some website (e.org, get-e.org, edevelop.org). ;) Greets Brian On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 05:23:26PM -0400, Michael Jennings wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 23:16:27 (+0200), Brian Miculcy wrote: Well check the other thread, there you see what happens if everyone wants to spread in his position. After all some of us are really working with the system. I wouldn't like to use something which has been voted by people which would never use it. And if we do things your way, no one will ever use it. You seem to be missing the fact that people who *want* to contribute currently *can't* for one reason or another. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- To err is human; to really louse things up requires root privileges. -- Alexander Pope, slightly paraphrased - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:41:45 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 23:29:11 (+0300), Hisham Mardam Bey wrote: Prior to diving into the what to use discussion See, I don't think that's the conversation we should be having right now. We're using XSM right now. Unless there is some fundamental flaw in XSM that cannot be overcome, we need to stick with it. So if there are problems with XSM, let's identify them. 1. Speed This will be resolved when we go local, as best I can tell from playing with the demo. 2. Unintuitive? Blake says XSM's editing interface is unintuitive. I can see some room for improvement, but straight HTML in a textarea seems pretty intuitive to me, albeit not as user-friendly as it could be. There is a definite advantage to having one of the developers of the CMS we're using on our team. The problem is, everyone speaks in abstracts: It's painful! I don't like it! More specific (constructive!) criticisms will ultimately result in a more usable XSM as well as a better site for E. So...anyone want to start with #3? exactly. this is what i have been trying to get people to focus on - what about xsm could/should be fixed/improved. what about xsm really (within practical limits) is not fixable? 3. permissions model - too explicit. hard to grant global acess to 1 user (have to add page by page). 4. account creation not self-serve (enter account name, passwd, email, get confirmation email - go to given url - acknowledge etc.) 5. forums of edevelop - how would we get xsm to handle that with minimum pain (don't say we need to write our own forum engine!) 6. (andy already addressed this) automatic page content creation from disk-contents (eg a dir full of tarballs) using php or something (andy just needs to turn on php support and we need to lock down access to such pages so people don't tend to make silly mistakes) Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- I'll be leaving soon; it's hard to say when I'll return, and I don't want to lead you on. So if you feel the need, close your eyes and share this dream. It will be Eternity. -- Blessid Union of Souls, Forever for Tonight - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] xrender_x11 engine: identity transform workaround
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:55:28 +0200 Tilman Sauerbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Hi, this is about the FIXME in evas_engine_xrender.c:493. If the depth of the surface is 1, we're passing a scaled variant of the identity matrix to the picture. All scaled variants of the identity should be treated the same in the render implementation, but apparently they aren't. THE BASTARDS! :-P~ (thus the fixme) :) I just fixed xorg-server so that setting a scaled variant of the identity is a no-op, too. That means if you pass the identity to XRenderSetPictureTransform(), the function will just exit and not use any transform at all. even if it set the identity - i would expect the xserver-side to go ooh look- identity transform! ... NOP! :) This might expose a in the render implementation raster experienced the source-depth == 1 bug in. I'd like to remove the FIXME and that chunk of code, since it's officially pointless. Should we really work around stupid driver bugs? It also won't work in xorg 7.2+ :D if this actually has a chance of being fixed in xorg soon - yes - remove... ONCE that xorg is out and about with the fixes :) so... if it goes into xorg git - then change the fixme to added to xorg git some/date/2006 - expected in release 7.x and once we encounter that release in the wild - flip over... or make it a #ifdef broken_xrender too :) May I remove that chunk or do you want to keep it? Patch attached. Regards, Tilman -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail? -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] e: Using freedesktop.org .desktop files.
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:40:33 GMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Carsten writes: 1. add api to evas itself to provide size hints to loaders (load at size XxY at maximum and retain aspect) as well as dpi hints (you will want both eventually). 2. add api to loaders to be able to do this. 3. actually use this api in the svg loader 4. for shits giggles try it in the jpeg loader too :) all of this done :) works. rsvg/cairo do have bugs with inkscape svg's that use clipping - they don't transform the clipped objects. :( so it only works at 90dpi (no scaling by rsvg/cairo) for those files i have. anyway - rscg/cairo bug Maybe do 4. for all image loaders (using the scaling funcs)? well right now the only loaders than can get a scale-down for free on load are svg and jpeg - the others wouldn't get it for free (they would need to do a full decode and then scale). so i haven't bothered. i have it on e17's optimization todo to maybe add a scale cache. try cross-fading 2 1600x1200 bg's that are scaled up from 1280x1024 - and do it smoothly where every frame you upscale and interpolate as well as blend :) if u pre-scale to 1600x1200 the crossfade is smooth. anyway - a scale cache should pick this up runtime irrespective of usage so handle that anyway :) As to the rsvg/cairo bugs... Well, let's give them a break - they're trying to do some complex, messy stuff. No doubt they'll get whatever clipping issues worked out soon. sure! i'm not really complaining. this is the first i i mentioned it - it's a new feature of inskcape to do clipped objects so likely not heavily tested. i'll leave them to it :) even inkscape seems to have issues with it! :( Then maybe see if these svg files can be used as 'external' edje theme sources... :) or even inlined into the .edj :) maybe eventually. right now they CAN be used in edje - but they get converted to bitmaps at 90dpi... :) I saw your mention of a vector renderer antigrain and looked it up.. Seems very complete, and very nice pictures. try the demos! :) But it looks very large and complex - it may be larger than rsvg + glib + cairo. It also doesn't seem to be installed by default on most systems (wasn't on my SuSE 10). As to fast... well, that's a very relative term. It doesn't look like it was made with real-time gui-rendering in mind.. but who knows. try the demos and see... yes you are right - it's not default. it's a big fat c++ monster. to use it we'd need to bridge it with a c wrapper. i would be hesitant to use it - but the demos were really fast. it was impressive - considering what it does and can do and its completeness. NB - Update on the premul stuff: I've finished nearly all of it, but as grads were the objs most affected and required a considerable amount of reworking, I've taken the opportunity to address some grad things that came up during Brian's work on grads for edje. It may take me a couple more days to finish that up as well. ok- excellent. btw - i have a tonne of your mails to get back to and all those threads on evoak level stuff that turran is doing etc. i'm not ignoring it - i think i am just going to compress it into 1 big massive uber-mail :) and the shaped gradients i need to get back to you on - maybe we can re-visit that post-premul? anyway - not ignoring - trying to wade through a massive backlog :) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:15:45 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:52:55 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:04:22 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users. I agree that there should not be a get-e.org, but there is. It's far more political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is this: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. It does have the advantage of serving static pages. I couldn't name any other advantages, though. Then again, no one has seen fit to provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with an account, so... I can cache pages with Rails (quite easily). That should pretty much give you the same speed and is better because it keeps the data in the database too. We could also do a dozen things which would take a million years to do with something like PHP. There is lots of code already written for Rails, which can easily be plugged in. and there is even more code already done in php - as it's much more mature and wide-spread. most of the cms's and wiki's use it. i don't think this is a Yes but everyone is implementing the same things over and over again. Rails has plugins which can load functionality and generators which create code for you and this allows you to reuse other people's code in your application. This is what I meant when I said easily plugged in. You literally plug it in in minutes, sometimes seconds. decent argument for OUR NEEDS. this is not about arguing the technical potential of one language vs another. this is about making e.org more accessible to 1. readers (re-arrange navigation, pages etc. etc.) and 2. more accessible to contributors. let's not make this a my language/cms/whatever is better than yours debate. let's focus on bringing out the REAL ISSUES first - is it simply minor things that xsm needs added/changed/fixed? will it be fixed by a massive speedup to the publish process? is it something that xsm will need a mountain of work done to make it better for us (and resources to do that work are slim) so it might be better to look at alternate solutions? I only asked if we should do this, never said that we should. If you decide that XSM doesn't cut it and you have to work a ton to get it to do the stuff you want, the nice thing about Rails is that (from a developer point of view) it scales. We start off with a small XSM-like site (which should just take a couple of weeks to develop). Decent user registration and management. Easy to setup rights. Easy to add/edit/remove content (whatever you think that means). Use any common DB you want (even SQLite) or just plain files, if you like that better. You can add features to your heart's desire and applications don't grow into unamangeable monsters (like some PHP apps do). Conventions keep the code clean. so let's focus on what is the real problem - not jumping to let's write a cms! let's use wiki X, lets use cms Y. Absolutely! I'm just saying that if you guys decide not to use XSM anymore, developing a RoR based application might be a solution and I'd be interested in helping you guys out with that. Cheers, Eugen. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. You've told me this before. Rake works for me and just about anyone else I know. True, I use gems but I've used debian packages in the past and it still works fine. What exactly is wrong with it? IIRC you had problems of some kind with building it. I've used it from debian packages, *buntu packages and I've used a FreeBSD port so other people don't seem to have this problem (or they seem to have packages) Ruby is 11 years old. It's as stable as stable gets. I need Rake to develop but you guys shouldn't need it to deploy. It's also not part of the Ruby distribution so I don't see why
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Sep 11, 2006, at 4:25 PM, Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: snip one issues i see in merging them - 2 use xsm (fine) 1. uses drupal (php cms). edevelop's forums just can't function without dynamic www - xsm itself can't really scale there. so do we rewrite forum code in php to serve from xsm? do we have a split-personality site (not very attractive maintenance and design-wise). how do we merge the efforts into 1 cms (take that loosely) - or is it ever possible? The forums on edevelop.org are a combination of Drupal and phpBB (the old forums were originally just phpBB). I hacked Drupal to make it feel similar because everyone moaned so much about the original Drupal style and design. phpBB is a security nightmare (or it was when I switched away from it). I really hope the decision is not to create some frankenstein monstrosity by gluing together pieces of Drupal/XSM/Wiki and random bits of PHP. Just the thought of it gives me a headache. -Blake - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: agreed. i currently want to just move xsm locally to e.org - get it all up and running there and go from there. the question then is - once its up - how to kickstart life on e.org. we need to involve andy here as we are still using xsm and moving FROM it to something else will just be painful and xsm needs to show that it just isn't going to cut it (in the foreseeable future) and then some. 1 big thing we are going to have issues with xsm is forums. that i think will be a real hassle - the others - are just improvements on xsm as-is or will be solved in the move (permissions, account creation, speed, dynamic content in pages - eg downloads). I think the main thing we need to do is determine what we actually _want_ from our website. How we get it to do taht can come later. There are a few things that we currently have that we want to pull together (from my understanding): - Easily editable news page so we can keep people informed - Pages for each of the EFL components - Documentation pages, with pieces autogen'd out of CVS (api docs, the efl books etc) - This includes user docs which I think should also be in CVS - FAQ style pages (possibly wiki style to get user feedback) - User forums ala edevelop - Bug database ala xcomputerman.com/bugs - E17 themes and icon themes sections. Allows auto upload by maintainers? - Release directory file list, autogenerated from the filesystem. What else do we want on the website? (Do we actually want what's listed there?) I know raster hates bug databases, but the one on xcomp's site is working well for the EWL stuff we've been putting into it. Makes it a lot easier for us at least to keep track of our bugs and patches so it would be nice to move it over to the actual e.org site. dan - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] xrender_x11 engine: identity transform workaround
Tilman writes: Hi, this is about the FIXME in evas_engine_xrender.c:493. If the depth of the surface is 1, we're passing a scaled variant of the identity matrix to the picture. All scaled variants of the identity should be treated the same in the render implementation, but apparently they aren't. They should (up to possible accuracy issues) give the same result, since the [3][3] element would be used as a divisor with the same value as the coord scale factors.. But I found that it was actually carrying out the calculations unless the 116 values were used, so it was much slwer.. Until this was fixed in the server, it was thus best to just use the 116 diagonal factors. Unfortunately, there also seemed to be a server bug related to a1-masks that Carsten ran across. I just fixed xorg-server so that setting a scaled variant of the identity is a no-op, too. That means if you pass the identity to XRenderSetPictureTransform(), the function will just exit and not use any transform at all. Well done :) jose. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] update of ja.po for e16
Hello Kim On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 01:43:15 +0900 (JST), Yasufumi Haga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:14:24 +0200, |Kim Woelders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | | Yasufumi Haga wrote: | | On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:28:14 +0200, | | Kim Woelders [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | | | | | Yasufumi Haga wrote: | | | Hi all | | | | | | This is an update of ja.po for e16 as of | | | September 11. | | | | | | Thanks, committed :) | | | | | | You are aware that there are a number of untranslated (fuzzy marked) | | | items, like the labels in the new combined settings dialog, right? | | | | Yes, I'm aware that there are some fuzzy entries in my ja.po file. | | One reason is that I can't find the new dialog. I guessed it wasn't | | implemented yet because there was no menu entry to show the dialog in | | the menu shown by clicking the background. How can I display the | | dialog? Is it already available? | | | | Unless you have customized the default settings menu (right click) it | | should be the top item. Otherwise you should get it from | | $ eesh misc cfg | | Ah, yes. I've forgotten changing my menu. | Thanks, Kim. I've found the dialog by your help. | Isn't it Cool! I like it :) | I'll post the new translation within a few days or so. I've just translated the fuzzy entries in ja.po again. But it seems that the entries for the button labels on the new integrated configuration dialog remain unchanged when invoking the dialog after updating ja.po, which must be using the updated ja.po since the text Enlightenment Settings... on the menu entry for the dialog is translated into Japanese. I purged all caches and tried again, but it didn't work. I greped some strings in src directory which I used to build my current e16, and here's the result, I'm not sure whether this is meaningful or not, though :) $ pwd /home/fumi/src/e16/e16-cvs/e16/e/src $ grep dd-name *.c dialog.c: DialogShowSimpleWithName(dd, dd-name, data); $ grep dd-title *.c dialog.c: DialogSetTitle(d, _(dd-title)); settings.c: DialogSetTitle(d, _(dd-title)); $ grep dd-label *.c $ dd-label seems to be used nowhere. Is my source tree old? --- Thank you for telling me the truth. --- HAL9000 in 2010 Yasufumi Haga [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://homepage3.nifty.com/peterpan/ fingerprint:0EFA 299A BC32 7D68 1FEF BA2B 804E 9B15 C4F0 F9F0 - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Tuesday, 12 September 2006, at 01:08:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: Ruby on Rails is a web application development framework. For more info see http://www.rubyonrails.com. It's like the advanced brother of PHP. The really, really advanced brother of PHP. It's not a CMS. It should allow you to build anything you can think of. In other words, Ruby on Rails isn't even a CMS. It's a way to build one. Nowhere near what we need to be discussing right now, IMHO. And stop comparing PHP to RoR. Your advanced brother analogy is fallacious and misleading. You could continue to use XSM. But XSM is not a framework and adding functionality to the site will get harder and harder. As I'm guessing you know very, very little about how XSM is built, what the code looks like, and what the plans for it are, you are in no position to make this claim. So please don't. You could use another framework or, gasp, PHP or Perl. It's just that Ruby on Rails is familiar to some people. So are PHP and Perl. Familiar to more people, in fact, probably by several orders of magnitude. It doesn't really matter how many there are, Then you can't use that as a point against XSM either. 1) A website is not composed just of documentation. It's not just based on text. You can use HTML for that but if you want to integrate the desktop and the website, if you want to integrate the code in CVS and the website, if you want to integrate bug reports on the website and the mailing list, you can't use HTML. Of course you can. FAQ's, bug reports, and web sites in general have been working in HTML for years and years. The question is how the HTML comes into existence. I could go on, but I'll stop here. I may be biased I may be wrong. Personally, I don't think that just the people who are maintaining the site should decide this. But they should all agree with the final solution. You are biased. Everyone is. :-) I just think you need to be more careful about your claims and upon what you base them. On Tuesday, 12 September 2006, at 08:29:12 (+0900), Carsten Haitzler wrote: at last! someone is mentioning something that we need to address. xsm permissions model. maybe the page just needs to be split up into 3 pages? One page that references all the themes, then a page per theme for file attachments and such. Seems fairly obvious to me but xsm's permissions model is a little painful - if you want to give a new site maintainer access - you have to go to every page, 1 by 1, and add them in. it's unmanageable that way (last time i did it for onefang it took me ages). Yes, that certainly needs to be addressed. And as I understand from Andrew, it is being addressed. also remember - we likely want to be more permissive than restrictive. But it's really the same fundamental problem: setting permissions flags in as flexible a manner as possible. On Tuesday, 12 September 2006, at 03:30:56 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: Yes but everyone is implementing the same things over and over again. Rails has plugins which can load functionality and generators which create code for you and this allows you to reuse other people's code in your application. Ruby is implementing the same things that every other web application framework has implemented. RoR is no different than any other framework in that regard. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- You are waiting on a beach. This is where the East meets West. And as another sun sets on your anger, the darkness laughs as the wound destroys, and it turns your prayers to noise. Will you forgive? Will you forget? Will you live what you know? He left his rights; will you leave yours? You don't understand it. Let it go. -- Newsboys - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
I just wanted to keep another problem in mind: get-e.org used mirrors to scale the bandwidth. Biggest problem with this was dynamic content, for example the php voting system we had same month ago. So if there are plans to have mirrors, we also need to find a way how to work with user content (forums, blog stuff,...). Probably simply use www0 for editing / generating content. Just wanted to keep that in mind... Greets Brian On Tue, Sep 12, 2006 at 08:08:09AM +0900, Carsten Haitzler wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:04:22 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users. I agree that there should not be a get-e.org, but there is. It's far more political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is this: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. It does have the advantage of serving static pages. I couldn't name any other advantages, though. Then again, no one has seen fit to provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with an account, so... All you have to do is ask... :) but i think this may be an issue - xsm provides to automatic account creation (much like wiki's etc.) where you just register, provide an email, it mails back confirmation etc. etc. to make sure it's a real person, or even has an account approval queue - either way - it's a barrier of entry. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 08:51:54 (-0500), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started serving content. Pet projects. I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that :) ) Not exactly, but close enough. Like I said, it was more political than practical. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- If we keep silent, if we mass-defect, these very rocks will scream, 'God is not a secret to be kept!' And would I wash my hands again? Would I deny my Savior when He hung inside the public square? Did not my silence put Him there? -- Newsboys - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] ?$BMg9%B? Tokyo, Japan (?$BEl5~ ?$BF|K\) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services,
[E-devel] e17 segfault
Hi guys, I just experienced an e17 segfault. It happened when I was trying to save something from seamonkey. I was actually trying to save over another file, when I hit the replace button in the are you sure you want to save over file ... dialog I got the segfault dialog, however I cannot reproduce this at will. CVS as of today. Backtrace attached. Cheers Jochen #0 0xe410 in __kernel_vsyscall () #1 0xa78eb6cb in poll () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 #2 0xa79a9523 in _XWaitForReadable (dpy=0x8133478) at ../../src/XlibInt.c:498 #3 0xa79a9931 in _XRead (dpy=0x8133478, data=0xafffa134 \002%S, size=32) at ../../src/XlibInt.c:1080 #4 0xa79aacb9 in _XReadEvents (dpy=0x8133478) at ../../src/XlibInt.c:996 #5 0xa799469a in XNextEvent (dpy=0x8133478, event=0xafffadcc) at ../../src/NextEvent.c:50 #6 0x080b7a98 in e_alert_show ( text=0x81148c4 This is very bad. Enlightenment has segfaulted.\nThis is not meant to happen and is likely a sign of a\nbug in Enlightenment or the libraries it relies on.\n\nYou can gdb attach to this process now to try...) at e_alert.c:129 #7 0x080a3aa6 in e_sigseg_act (x=11, info=0xafffae6c, data=0xafffaeec) at e_signals.c:53 #8 signal handler called #9 0x080724be in e_container_border_raise (bd=0x860d0f8) at e_container.c:651 #10 0x08079ea2 in e_border_raise (bd=0x860d0f8) at e_border.c:1062 #11 0x080a01f2 in _e_focus_raise_timer (data=0x860d0f8) at e_focus.c:206 #12 0xa7f3d99c in _ecore_timer_call (when=1158038849.6543629) at ecore_timer.c:178 #13 0xa7f3b7e6 in _ecore_main_loop_iterate_internal (once_only=0) at ecore_main.c:467 #14 0xa7f3bb78 in ecore_main_loop_begin () at ecore_main.c:79 #15 0x0806405a in main (argc=1, argv=0xafffece4) at e_main.c:726 - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
