Re: [E-devel] Nightly build log for E17
- Unmaintained, broken, and too old to fix. notgame - Unmaintained, broken, and too old to fix. webcam - Unmaintained, broken, and too old to fix. enotes - Unmaintained, broken, and too old to fix. etk_server - Uses huge amounts of RAM, so may fail. gfx_routines- This was just a bunch of graphics tests. NOTE: sometimes an ERROR is the result of a failed dependency. The epdf project is a prime example, as it often requires the very latest poppler version, and not everybody is using the latest version of everything. Some people are quite happy running a slightly older, stable OS. Of course, these are all my opinion, and you know what those are like ... :) -- Eugen Minciu. Wasting valuable time since 1985. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Nightly builds - Was: Is this a community project?
Stashing it all on a web page means that people will not bother to look at it. Sending a built/not built summary to this list means that people will actually read it. Stashing the full build logs on the web is good, it doesn't fill the list with tons of shit no one needs to look at, and the one or two people that note that their project is not building know where to find the full build log to investigate further. Maybe the the full output could be sent to the CVS mailing list. That sounds a bit counterintuitive but if you think about it it's purpose is to alert developers of changes to the codebase. This is somewhat similar. Then again, I don't know ... Just my 2% of a dollar. -- Eugen Minciu. Wasting valuable time since 1985. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Nightly builds - Was: Is this a community project?
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 10:51:13 +0300 Chady Kassouf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/19/07, Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stashing it all on a web page means that people will not bother to look at it. Sending a built/not built summary to this list means that people will actually read it. Stashing the full build logs on the web is good, it doesn't fill the list with tons of shit no one needs to look at, and the one or two people that note that their project is not building know where to find the full build log to investigate further. Maybe the the full output could be sent to the CVS mailing list. That sounds a bit counterintuitive but if you think about it it's purpose is to alert developers of changes to the codebase. This is somewhat similar. Well, not really... when information get bigger, you will tend to start skipping it. A summary like this is great, cause all you have to do is skim the list for ERROR and then you'll know what broke and you go check it out, but trying to wade through all the output of a build to find an error is painful. That's probably true. However it could be shortened a bit. You could have the script output something like this: Build results: 232 passed, 5 failed. Failing modules: foo bar baz To see a full output of the build script please go to link here. Pretty please ;) I think that's short enough not to hurt anyone's eyes. -- Chady 'Leviathan' Kassouf http://chady.net/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel -- Eugen Minciu. Wasting valuable time since 1985. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Some TODO enlightenment please
Christopher Michael wrote:
Alberto wrote:
Christopher Michael wrote:
Writting to try and get some clarification on a few TODO items:
-- snip --
* make e internal windows (config panel, dialogs, config windows etc.)
use special border styles by default.
Which style do we want by default?
Instead of using a border style that already exists, I suggest adding
two or three new border styles, specific to internal E17 configuration
windows. Their physics should differ from regular client borders.
That is the plan :)
For instance, dialog windows should not be re-sizable and they should
not be allowed to shade. (they are the typical confirmation dialogs).
Also, their border icon should probably match the confirmation dialog.
I think we can all agree that popup dialogs (ie: msg dialogs) should
not be resizable, As for shading...IMHO, not a good idea :( These type
dialogs are usually meant to notify the user about a question/problem.
Allowing a user to shade them means allowing them to potentially ignore
the dialog forever (ie: it got shaded and they forgot about it), which
could render some pretty nasty problems if it was an important
dialog/question/warning. By not allowing a shade/iconify on these, we
force them to look at/deal with the dialog. Also (imho) they really
shouldn't have a close button (read X in corner) for pretty much similar
reasons.
Once again, here's a thought I'm having. If it sounds stupid or
anything, please ignore it.
Would it be possible to have an Expose-like shading of everything
besides the popup dialog?
Basically you need to
1) Set it on top of everything else
2) Somehow disable everything else
3) Shade everything else.
Or maybe it's too much to do, or bad from a usability point of view.
My $0.02
Eugen.
Configuration windows could use the no_resize border that already exists
(if its suitable for the window) but with an extra flag, these windows
should not be allow to shade. If you don't exactly agree with this, then
I suggest you at least allow the themer to set this flag within the
border's edc source with an option similar to the shaped flag.
data {
item: shade 0;
}
I'm with David on this one :) Some config dialogs you may want/need to
be able to resize. As far as shading them, imho this should be allowed
for these type of borders. I don't see much of a problem with allowing
themers to use a shade: 0 optionother than potential
inconsistencies (ie: User: E won't shade this window :(...Devs: Theme
issue)imho doesn't provide a consistent feel to things. I'm all
about allowing power user feaures and giving themers flexibility but
something that makes the general interface behave differently on a
per-theme basis needs to be thought out, discussed and either agreed on
or shot down.
Devilhorns
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Re: [E-devel] Some TODO enlightenment please
Christopher Michael wrote: Writting to try and get some clarification on a few TODO items: * IBar will resize itself down to single icon size on start/restart under some circumstances. Any use cases? Reproduction methods? * make e internal windows (config panel, dialogs, config windows etc.) use special border styles by default. Which style do we want by default? * accidental DND removals of icons from ibar - make it harder by not removing if you do not drag it far enough away (put the icon back where it was). Drag Delta? Maybe it would be better not to remove the icon unless it has been grabbed by a minimum amount of time? Dunno, just a thought. * remove a lot of ipc commands that should be done via the gui now Is this safe/ok to start doing? * maybe look at improving config panel layout - list is getting VERY long What direction do we want to go with this? Winblows Control Panel type deal, or something enlightened ? :) Cheers, devilhorns - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] E17 installer script.
Hi,
I've written a small script that downloads e17 from CVS and builds it.
It's written in Ruby. Sorry if you don't like that :). You'll need Ruby
installed.
It also does a few trivial checks for a few things (cvs, make, automake,
autoconf, gettext, libtoolize, pkg-config, autoheader).
It's output is rather clean as it logs the command's output to a log file.
There's a configuration file (which is written in ruby as well) that you
can modify.
The source is commented and so's the config file.
If anyone finds this useful, or interesting or has patches or whatever,
drop me a line.
Make it executable and run ./my_e or just run it with 'ruby my_e'
In the future, I will modify the script to stop when something doesn't
build properly (or prompt the user or whatever). Right now it doesn't
but a simple ^C will stop it.
Hope this is useful. Cheers.
Eugen.
#!/usr/bin/ruby
# This is My E script.
# It is released under the BSD license
# Written by Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
require 'fileutils'
require 'my_e.conf'
# trap INT to exit more gracefully then the default backtrace
Signal.trap(INT) do
puts
puts * Exiting ...
exit
end
# Execute a command.
# We fork before we execute so we can catch SIGINT while
# the process is still running.
def exec_cmd(cmd)
fork { exec(#{cmd} #{LOG_FILE} 2 #{LOG_FILE}) }
Process.wait
if $?.exitstatus == 0 then
return true
else
return false
end
end
# The base package class. This implements common procedures for a
# package, wether it is a library, application, misc package or a module
class Package
attr_accessor :name
# We initialize the packages class variable with whatever we got from
# the config file
def Package.init
@@packages = []
LIBRARIES.each do |item|
@@packages Library.new(item)
end
APPLICATIONS.each do |item|
@@packages Application.new(item)
end
MISC.each do |item|
@@packages Misc.new(item)
end
MODULES.each do |item|
@@packages EModule.new(item)
end
end
def initialize(name, options={})
@name=name
@dir=options[:dir]
end
# Execute an action.
# Writes a nice little output, calls exec_cmd and prints out the result of
# the operation accordingly
def item_cmd(action,cmd)
begin
FileUtils.cd(@dir)
rescue
puts The source directory for [EMAIL PROTECTED] cannot be found on your
system.
puts Perhaps you should run '#{$0} checkout' first.
exit 0
end
print * #{action} [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...
if exec_cmd(cmd) then
puts [ok]
else
puts [failed]
end
FileUtils.cd(CVS_PATH)
end
# Execute an action as root.
# This one's a bit trickier.
# If we're not root it uses SUDO_CMD to ask for a password
# SUDO_CMD needn't be 'sudo', it can be 'su -c'
# You'll just be typing your root password and you'll be typing it a bit more
def root_item_cmd(action,cmd)
if Process.euid!=0 then
cmd=#{SUDO_CMD} make install
end
item_cmd(action,cmd)
end
# Cleanup a package
def clean
item_cmd(Cleaning,make distclean)
end
# Update a package from CVS
def update
item_cmd(Updating,cvs -z3 -d#{CVS_SERVER} update)
end
# Configure a package (actually runs ./autogen.sh)
def configure
item_cmd(Configuring,./autogen.sh --prefix=#{INSTALL_PATH})
end
# Compile a package
def compile
item_cmd(Compiling, make)
end
# Generate documentation
def gendocs
item_cmd(Generating docs for,./gendoc)
end
# Install a package
def install
root_item_cmd(Installing,make install)
end
# Uninstall a package
def uninstall
root_item_cmd(Unstalling,make uninstall)
end
# Register libraries with ldconfig
def register
root_item_cmd(Registering,ldconfig)
end
# Checkout the CVS modules
def Package.checkout
puts(* Checking out ...)
wd=Dir.pwd
begin
FileUtils.cd(#{CVS_PATH})
rescue
FileUtils.cd(wd)
end
for i in [e17,misc, e_modules] do
print( * Checking out #{i} ...)
exec_cmd(cvs -q -d#{CVS_SERVER} co #{i})
sleep 10
puts([ok]);
end
FileUtils.cd(wd)
puts(* Checkout complete.)
end
# Build all the items in @@packages
def Package.do_build
puts* Building Enlightenment
@@packages.each do |p|
puts * Building #{p.name}
p.clean
p.update
p.configure
p.compile
p.gendocs
p.install
p.register
end
end
# Uninstall all the items in @@packages
def Package.do_uninstall
puts *Uninstalling Enlightenment
@@packages.each do |p|
p.uninstall
end
end
# Check if a program is available on a given machine
def Package.check_item(item,cmd)
puts * Checking for #{item}
item_exists=exec_cmd(cmd)
if (!item_exists) then
puts * #{item} is not installed on your system.
puts#{item} is required
Re: [E-devel] E17 installer script.
Luchezar Petkov wrote: Well, there are some other scripts for that purpose, such as Raster's get_e.sh or easy_e17.sh. I've seen script for download/install E17 from CVS even written in Python, but never in Ruby. So, thank you. Ruby fans will like it and maybe will help you to improve it. Also, you may be interested in EFL's Ruby bindings to write one very nice GUI app for us. :-) P.S. What's the license? BSD? Cheers. On 11/16/06, * Eugen Minciu* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've written a small script that downloads e17 from CVS and builds it. It's written in Ruby. Sorry if you don't like that :). You'll need Ruby installed. It also does a few trivial checks for a few things (cvs, make, automake, autoconf, gettext, libtoolize, pkg-config, autoheader). It's output is rather clean as it logs the command's output to a log file. There's a configuration file (which is written in ruby as well) that you can modify. The source is commented and so's the config file. If anyone finds this useful, or interesting or has patches or whatever, drop me a line. Make it executable and run ./my_e or just run it with 'ruby my_e' In the future, I will modify the script to stop when something doesn't build properly (or prompt the user or whatever). Right now it doesn't but a simple ^C will stop it. Hope this is useful. Cheers. Eugen. -- Luchezer P. Petkov Hi, I've seen Ruby-EFL and I do plan to write a couple of nice apps with it. I just haven't had that much time lately (does this seem familiar? :) ) I can do a bit of C so I might try to do things in C as well. And as for the license, yes, it's BSD (it says so at the beginning of the my_e.rb file). Regards, Eugen. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] entrance is now bloated.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:31:04 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My entrance is built on September 11th and I don't have this problem. Hope this helps you narrow it down. OK - a quick check today: PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEMTIME+ COMMAND 4183 root 15 0 79712 28m 5216 S0 2.9 0:35.94 Xorg 9385 raster15 0 106m 21m 11m S0 2.1 0:03.04 sylpheed 4189 root 16 0 65112 13m 3060 S0 1.3 0:04.72 entrance 4600 raster16 0 65112 11m 704 S0 1.1 0:00.00 entrance 4601 raster15 0 70988 9604 3984 S0 0.9 1:50.63 enlightenm 4168 root 16 0 41956 1248 860 S0 0.1 0:00.00 entranced ... now yes - i know how top and ps can lie - BUT, i only now JUST noticed - someone has removed my work of using entrance_login. ie entranced spawns (and manages) X and entrance (entrance is the gui front end). when you authenticate - entrance runs the login session. in order to make sure that when your login ends everything is cleaned up login-wise, entrance_login sits and waits for the user's login to end. entrance_login is small - it uses no efl libs. it is intended to be so small as to use very little ram while you are logged in. this seems to have been thrown out the window now with entrance spawning 2 incarnations of itself and just siting around hogging stale unused memory that will eventually need to be swapped out - while a user is logged in. why was this removed? why suddenly consume about 20MB worth of resident pages of ram when this is really not needed? just exec() entrance_login so it replaces the entrance process with a brand new one that has no allocated memory, fragmented pages etc. if any housekeeping needs to be added - add it to entrance_login and pass it in via cmd-line, stdin or something. as it stands entrance is hogging a huge amount of memory for no useful purpose. entranced should stick around - and really - it's not fat at all (400k of resident pages or so). look at the above - enlightenment is leaner than entrance - by 50% mem use. and entrance should be doing NOTHING - it should be idle and consuming basically no resources as it's only waiting for my login session to end. now - this brings me to my point. people need to think about what they are patching and changing - not just in terms of features, but what they might break, destroy and then bloat-up. this isn't gnome people. we CARE about resource usage. if you are going to use ram or cpu - do it for a reason - get something out of it (functionality, prettiness, etc.) but profile your work - check its memory usage, check its process spawning - do the processes go away? so you leave them hanging around consuming precious ram and/or cpu. pay attention to the details. details make the difference between a $1 piece of plastic imitation junk churned out by a chinese factory and a masterpiece of craftsmanship. i am sorry to have to say this - but i'm disappointed to see lax work like this. :( -- - Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 裸好多 Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本) - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] entrance is now bloated.
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 01:58:33 +0200 Morten Nilsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 19:58:36 +0100 Essien Ita Essien [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: all fixed now. actually not all fixed. 1 entrance process floating around. there's no need for it to hang about like a bad smell. :) i am pretty damn sure that when i fixed it before entrance spawned off the user's login session then REPLACED itself with entrance_login so it became small and unobtrusive. there were not 2 entrances and entrance became entrance_login :) i'm pretty damn sure that's how it was... :) I think this was a result of the whole yahoo about shells a bit back.. The one that ended with entrance executing the chosen environment directly, and not run it by /bin/sh or /bin/bash That was my patch. I apologize, for not seeing this. I really suck. I tried to do a lot more then was initially required. Someone should probably bash me for changing code I don't understand and they'd have a point. You should probably revert the entire thing. The mess it created is a lot worse then the (small) benefit it created. Sorry. You might want to keep that strtok() parsing when starting the X server but I don't know really. Eugen. Personally, the ~9MB out of 2GB the entrance process is hogging is negligible, but still wasted RAM.. My biggest problem is having to execute xmodmap ~/.Xmodmap by hand all the time. I didn't have to do that a few weeks back. -- Morten :wq - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] Small bug in font configuration dialog.
Here's a small problem I'm having with the font dialog. It's nothing major (you might even be aware of it) but I just though I should let you guys know. I go the font configuration dialog to enable a font class (Modules - Small). However, nothing happens (the font and its size don't change). I change the size from the default in the dialog. I click apply and it doesn't change (again). The settings only get applied after I restart E. I then try to disable that font class and the same thing happens. It's only disabled after I restart E. Cheers, Eugen. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] itray module
On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 05:57:50 GMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: it can't. it's a window. just like tray icons. windows cant be part of a canvas. I think that given the current design of the systray spec, what we have here is just that, currently, implementing this may give ugly stuff for many systray-apps.. But I don't think it means that the concept is a bad one and should not be pursued. If the concept is useful, then it could be made to work well with 'enlightened' systray related apps - there may not be many such right now, but maybe some will develop soon... :) Better to have good with e-systray-aware-apps and some others, but ugly with many others... than nothing at all? Hmm ... I don't share that opinion :) I think for now we can get away with just a notification module. Is there any spec for this? Anything we should be looking at? (maybe the Gnome KDE code). Basically, it would be nice if we could, maybe extend the IBox so each minimized application can send notifications. Maybe we could somehow fool other applications into thinking they've been trayed so that they can send notifications and we can capture them. These are just my thoughts, dunno if they're good. Waiting to hear your opinions. I might get into this module, in a few days, when I finish my current work. I have other things on my list as well (I have updating the carbon theme, and integrating some power management into E on my list at the moment). So basically, I'd like to collect some thoughts on these items. But mostly, on this notification thing. Cheers, Eugen. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -- and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 00:41:42 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday, 12 September 2006, at 01:08:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: Ruby on Rails is a web application development framework. For more info see http://www.rubyonrails.com. It's like the advanced brother of PHP. The really, really advanced brother of PHP. It's not a CMS. It should allow you to build anything you can think of. In other words, Ruby on Rails isn't even a CMS. It's a way to build one. Read what I've said in the other message. I'm just proposing an alternative. If you guys want to use it, I'd be glad to help. Nowhere near what we need to be discussing right now, IMHO. And stop comparing PHP to RoR. Your advanced brother analogy is fallacious and misleading. Maybe I should be comparing PHP Zend with RoR, you're right. Sorry for that. I'm just saying developing in RoR is saner and faster and cleaner then writing your applications in pure PHP or Perl code. You could continue to use XSM. But XSM is not a framework and adding functionality to the site will get harder and harder. As I'm guessing you know very, very little about how XSM is built, what the code looks like, and what the plans for it are, you are in no position to make this claim. So please don't. Correct, I'm taking a wild guess. Now here's a 'non-wild guess'. XSM probably isn't as flexible as Rails. I'm just saying that because not many things are. But I'd just like to hear what Andy has to say about my claim. You could use another framework or, gasp, PHP or Perl. It's just that Ruby on Rails is familiar to some people. So are PHP and Perl. Familiar to more people, in fact, probably by several orders of magnitude. There are other issues with PHP or Perl sites. They're, by nature, a lot less secure and many are difficult to maintain. You might end up needing more people to spend time on the website. It doesn't really matter how many there are, Then you can't use that as a point against XSM either. In that statement I wasn't. I was saying that if we decide to write a RoR application there are people who would work on it. Just as there are people working on XSM now. Obviously, there won't be dozens of people contributing to it just like there aren't dozens of people contributing to XSM at this point. That's what I was saying. 1) A website is not composed just of documentation. It's not just based on text. You can use HTML for that but if you want to integrate the desktop and the website, if you want to integrate the code in CVS and the website, if you want to integrate bug reports on the website and the mailing list, you can't use HTML. Of course you can. FAQ's, bug reports, and web sites in general have been working in HTML for years and years. The question is how the HTML comes into existence. Can you integrate bug reports on the website with the mailing list and the TODO files on the server with HTML? No, you'll have to use PHP or Perl for that, both of which are notoriously good at letting people write unsafe applications. Can you make the content automatically add or edit site based on email messages? Can you integrate forums and the mailing list like David said? Can you make the website accept bug reports from an application on the desktop that is just sending an XML request to the website, send those reports directly on the mailing list and in the TODO files? Not with HTML, you can do it with PHP and Perl. And if you feel that you can and want to do that go ahead. Do it. Be my guest. Same for anyone else. I was saying that I can do it with RoR and _I want to_. If you feel like you don't want or need what I can do, fine, no problem. Oh, and can you do all that with XSM? How much time would it take you to code the features? I could go on, but I'll stop here. I may be biased I may be wrong. Personally, I don't think that just the people who are maintaining the site should decide this. But they should all agree with the final solution. You are biased. Everyone is. :-) I just think you need to be more careful about your claims and upon what you base them. Read those two tags? personal opinion/personal opinion. I don't need to be right about everything, but I'm right about some things I have said (the bit about XSM being a CMS). I tend not to explain my opinions too well and I'm sorry for that. Cheers, Eugen On Tuesday, 12 September 2006, at 08:29:12 (+0900), Carsten Haitzler wrote: at last! someone is mentioning something that we need to address. xsm permissions model. maybe the page just needs to be split up into 3 pages? One page that references all the themes, then a page per theme for file attachments and such. Seems fairly obvious to me but xsm's permissions model is a little painful - if you want to give a new site maintainer access - you have to go to every page, 1 by 1, and add them in. it's unmanageable
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:38:30 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed that, and I've also noticed a couple of other things that may not be so apparent to you guys. There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. I thought about this a little and this is how I think this site should be layed out: about - general - e16 - e17 - efl users - news - screenshots - documentation - download - e16 - e17 - themes - backgrounds - etc... developers - news - documentation - core libraries - widget sets - programming guides/howtos - api references - todo items - cvs bugs contact us Here's a little bit about these items about: small introduction to e. Don't go into details, that's for the documentation. news both in users and developers. Generally this news differs. You should have two checkboxes for each news item, allowing you to post it either to only one of the two, or to both. documentation in both places. user documentation is not developer documentation so they should be separate. screenshots: a mini-gallery sort of thing. maybe with videos too download: both releases and daily (nightly) snapshots. api references: maybe they should be rebuilt automatically? (or maybe just manualy, but we all know where that leads to :) ) todo items should be automatically extracted from the TODO files of each application/library. cvs: maybe a web ui for cvs along with info on how to get it bugs: small 'contact us' sort of thingie. user is required to fill in what he sees in an image (to prevent spam). Once he posts, this is automatically routed to the devel list, or maybe some new ml created just for that (since people will probably send lots of useless reports, report bugs that have been fixed, complain about e not building because they don't have foo etc.). Let them upload a core, etc. the other items should be fairly self explanatory. So here are a couple of sugestions about this stuff: 1) Don't bother with a cute interface to edit content. Just use a markup language. (like you edit a wiki) 2) news can be posted, either from an application (with a web service) or from an email (with some encryption). First would probably be easier. 3) you can use a webservice to allow users to download and install themes etc. directly from www.enlightenment.org 4) api references should be automatically generated, speaking of automatic here's another idea (or brainfart, depending on how you see it) 5) have the server try to build the current version of e (or maybe a separate build machine). Constantly show a status of what builds and doesnt build on www.enlightenment.org (sorry if this is too SF, just a thought) 6) todo items come from the TODO files. maybe use the same markup in the todo files as well. you could do it both ways (add todo items in the files based on bug reports) Now ... I can't say all of this stuff is easy to build. But it can be built. I think I could actually make a page like what I've just babbled about for enlightenment. It would require quite a bit of time. But I need the RoR experience and any way to help you guys out would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside :d If you want this to happen quick then just go for an existing CMS or wever, if you think you this stuff is actually worthwhile (worth the wait) then let me know, let's discuss what you guys need and I'll begin working on it ;) Cheers, Eugen. On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: As many may have noticed, e's official website, enlightenmnet.org is pretty painfully out of date. The screenshots on the front page are all from e16, and there have been a total of 3 news items this year. yup. i have been mulling what to do about this for a while. FYI we are getting a new box - donated to us from coolcheeze (from the arcane linux project - he also does consulting and box building). a fairly beefy box. it will be on 100mbit at osuosl and has a fair bit of juice (dual opteron, 2gb ram, sata raid). i am thinking 1. anoncvs will move here. 2. move www for e.org here - now we have 100% control over what we can run and how it runs. we can trivially run scripts to auto-build daily tarballs (make dist ones) and more. i think this may make a good case for e.org re-vamps to accommodate such things - and maybe a complete re-design. our current layout has been with us for many
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:38:30 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed that, and I've also noticed a couple of other things that may not be so apparent to you guys. There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. I thought about this a little and this is how I think this site should be layed out: about - general - e16 - e17 - efl users - news - screenshots - documentation - download - e16 - e17 - themes - backgrounds - etc... developers - news - documentation - core libraries - widget sets - programming guides/howtos - api references - todo items - cvs bugs contact us Here's a little bit about these items about: small introduction to e. Don't go into details, that's for the documentation. news both in users and developers. Generally this news differs. You should have two checkboxes for each news item, allowing you to post it either to only one of the two, or to both. documentation in both places. user documentation is not developer documentation so they should be separate. screenshots: a mini-gallery sort of thing. maybe with videos too download: both releases and daily (nightly) snapshots. api references: maybe they should be rebuilt automatically? (or maybe just manualy, but we all know where that leads to :) ) todo items should be automatically extracted from the TODO files of each application/library. cvs: maybe a web ui for cvs along with info on how to get it bugs: small 'contact us' sort of thingie. user is required to fill in what he sees in an image (to prevent spam). Once he posts, this is automatically routed to the devel list, or maybe some new ml created just for that (since people will probably send lots of useless reports, report bugs that have been fixed, complain about e not building because they don't have foo etc.). Let them upload a core, etc. the other items should be fairly self explanatory. So here are a couple of sugestions about this stuff: 1) Don't bother with a cute interface to edit content. Just use a markup language. (like you edit a wiki) 2) news can be posted, either from an application (with a web service) or from an email (with some encryption). First would probably be easier. 3) you can use a webservice to allow users to download and install themes etc. directly from www.enlightenment.org 4) api references should be automatically generated, speaking of automatic here's another idea (or brainfart, depending on how you see it) 5) have the server try to build the current version of e (or maybe a separate build machine). Constantly show a status of what builds and doesnt build on www.enlightenment.org (sorry if this is too SF, just a thought) 6) todo items come from the TODO files. maybe use the same markup in the todo files as well. you could do it both ways (add todo items in the files based on bug reports) Now ... I can't say all of this stuff is easy to build. But it can be built. I think I could actually make a page like what I've just babbled about for enlightenment. It would require quite a bit of time. But I need the RoR experience and any way to help you guys out would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside :d If you want this to happen quick then just go for an existing CMS or wever, if you think you this stuff is actually worthwhile (worth the wait) then let me know, let's discuss what you guys need and I'll begin working on it ;) Cheers, Eugen. On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: As many may have noticed, e's official website, enlightenmnet.org is pretty painfully out of date. The screenshots on the front page are all from e16, and there have been a total of 3 news items this year. yup. i have been mulling what to do about this for a while. FYI we are getting a new box - donated to us from coolcheeze (from the arcane linux project - he also does consulting and box building). a fairly beefy box. it will be on 100mbit at osuosl and has a fair bit of juice (dual opteron, 2gb ram, sata raid). i am thinking 1. anoncvs will move here. 2. move www for e.org here - now we have 100% control over what we can run and how it runs. we can trivially run scripts to auto-build daily tarballs (make dist ones) and more. i think this may make a good case for e.org re-vamps to accommodate such things - and maybe a complete re-design. our current layout has been with us for many
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 16:04:13 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:38:30 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I noticed that, and I've also noticed a couple of other things that may not be so apparent to you guys. There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. I thought about this a little and this is how I think this site should be layed out: about - general - e16 - e17 - efl users - news - screenshots - documentation - download - e16 - e17 - themes - backgrounds - etc... developers - news - documentation - core libraries - widget sets - programming guides/howtos - api references - todo items - cvs bugs contact us Here's a little bit about these items about: small introduction to e. Don't go into details, that's for the documentation. news both in users and developers. Generally this news differs. You should have two checkboxes for each news item, allowing you to post it either to only one of the two, or to both. documentation in both places. user documentation is not developer documentation so they should be separate. screenshots: a mini-gallery sort of thing. maybe with videos too download: both releases and daily (nightly) snapshots. api references: maybe they should be rebuilt automatically? (or maybe just manualy, but we all know where that leads to :) ) todo items should be automatically extracted from the TODO files of each application/library. cvs: maybe a web ui for cvs along with info on how to get it bugs: small 'contact us' sort of thingie. user is required to fill in what he sees in an image (to prevent spam). Once he posts, this is automatically routed to the devel list, or maybe some new ml created just for that (since people will probably send lots of useless reports, report bugs that have been fixed, complain about e not building because they don't have foo etc.). Let them upload a core, etc. the other items should be fairly self explanatory. So here are a couple of sugestions about this stuff: 1) Don't bother with a cute interface to edit content. Just use a markup language. (like you edit a wiki) 2) news can be posted, either from an application (with a web service) or from an email (with some encryption). First would probably be easier. 3) you can use a webservice to allow users to download and install themes etc. directly from www.enlightenment.org 4) api references should be automatically generated, speaking of automatic here's another idea (or brainfart, depending on how you see it) 5) have the server try to build the current version of e (or maybe a separate build machine). Constantly show a status of what builds and doesnt build on www.enlightenment.org (sorry if this is too SF, just a thoughe.t) 6) todo items come from the TODO files. maybe use the same markup in the todo files as well. you could do it both ways (add todo items in the files based on bug reports) Oh todo items could also come from a web service. You could have a 'report a bug' application that send the bug report all the way into the TODO. Now ... I can't say all of this stuff is easy to build. But it can be built. I think I could actually make a page like what I've just babbled about for enlightenment. It would require quite a bit of time. But I need the RoR experience and any way to help you guys out would make me feel warm and fuzzy inside :d If you want this to happen quick then just go for an existing CMS or wever, if you think you this stuff is actually worthwhile (worth the wait) then let me know, let's discuss what you guys need and I'll begin working on it ;) Cheers, Eugen. On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:48:51 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: As many may have noticed, e's official website, enlightenmnet.org is pretty painfully out of date. The screenshots on the front page are all from e16, and there have been a total of 3 news items this year. yup. i have been mulling what to do about this for a while. FYI we are getting a new box - donated to us from coolcheeze (from the arcane linux project - he also does consulting and box building). a fairly beefy box. it will be on 100mbit at osuosl and has a fair bit of juice (dual opteron, 2gb ram, sata raid). i am thinking 1
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:04:22 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users. I agree that there should not be a get-e.org, but there is. It's far more political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is this: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. It does have the advantage of serving static pages. I couldn't name any other advantages, though. Then again, no one has seen fit to provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with an account, so... I can cache pages with Rails (quite easily). That should pretty much give you the same speed and is better because it keeps the data in the database too. We could also do a dozen things which would take a million years to do with something like PHP. There is lots of code already written for Rails, which can easily be plugged in. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. You've told me this before. Rake works for me and just about anyone else I know. True, I use gems but I've used debian packages in the past and it still works fine. What exactly is wrong with it? IIRC you had problems of some kind with building it. I've used it from debian packages, *buntu packages and I've used a FreeBSD port so other people don't seem to have this problem (or they seem to have packages) Ruby is 11 years old. It's as stable as stable gets. I need Rake to develop but you guys shouldn't need it to deploy. It's also not part of the Ruby distribution so I don't see why you should blame Ruby for your issues with Rake. And it's not 'fundamental' in any way, if you ask me. Now about Rails. It's pretty new but catchy as hell, there are a lot of developers out there already. It lets you do very advanced stuff in very simple ways. It structures web development by design. And most of all, it's a framework, not just a language or a CMS. As for not many of you guys using Ruby, you could create a separate module in the repo to store the site. That should make it pretty easy for anyone to contribute to the site and improve it. On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 08:51:54 (-0500), [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started serving content. Pet projects. I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that :) ) Not exactly, but close enough. Like I said, it was more political than practical. Michael -- Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX) http://www.kainx.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/ Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org) --- If we keep silent, if we mass-defect, these very rocks will scream, 'God is not a secret to be kept!' And would I wash my hands again? Would I deny my Savior when He hung inside the public square? Did not my silence put Him there? -- Newsboys - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 22:49:19 +0200
Brian Miculcy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
i think we have three maintainers for now: Shadoi doing the development
stuff part, me and devilhorns doing the users stuff part. This can be
easily
moved to e.org. I think the main problem is that everyone want's to work
differently on e.org . Shadoi using ruby on rails (whatever this is, i
have no glue), me using plain html files in cvs and devilhorns... - well
he can talk for his own. I suggest to simply ask the maintainers, which
will work on e.org - us three. I accept that Handyandy wanted to talk
about that, but he don't maintain something. Even the other people here.
personal view
Ruby on Rails is a web application development framework. For more info see
http://www.rubyonrails.com. It's like the advanced brother of PHP. The really,
really advanced brother of PHP. It's not a CMS. It should allow you to build
anything you can think of.
You could continue to use XSM. But XSM is not a framework and adding
functionality to the site will get harder and harder.
You could use another CMS. Some are really nice to use but most have a bloated
interface (look at drupal or mambo or joomla).
You could use a wiki. But you can't do much with a wiki besides hosting
documentation. The site should have a screenshot gallery, a place to download
files etc. A wiki just isn't cut out for something like that.
You could use another framework or, gasp, PHP or Perl. It's just that Ruby on
Rails is familiar to some people. It doesn't really matter how many there are,
I don't see dozens of people commiting to XSM. If we build the site and it
works we've got what we wanted.
So far I see a lot of people on this list making two confusions.
1) A website is not composed just of documentation. It's not just based on
text. You can use HTML for that but if you want to integrate the desktop and
the website, if you want to integrate the code in CVS and the website, if you
want to integrate bug reports on the website and the mailing list, you can't
use HTML.
2) Ruby on Rails is a framework. With it, you develop and deploy a website.
From that point on, content in the site can be edited however we choose. It is
not a CMS. Just look at the link if you don't know much about RoR.
OK. So it's a framework. Here's what you can do with it.
a) You can develop your site in any way. You can thus edit your textual context
in any way ( be it HTML, Textile or something else ). It's not a CMS, you get
the choice to implement what you want.
b) You can integrate it with other things. You can use web services to
integrate it with the desktop. You can integrate it with the mailing list via
ActionMailer.
c) You can develop your own website. It's not just a place where you pile up
textual information. You can modify it to suit your own needs. And you have an
excellent codebase to begin with (the framework itself).
d) It's good. It's not just my opinion it's the opinion of many other people as
well.
e) It makes changing sites easy. If we decide we were wrong we can easily
'change our mind' in code as well, later.
/personal opinion
I could go on, but I'll stop here. I may be biased I may be wrong. Personally,
I don't think that just the people who are maintaining the site should decide
this. But they should all agree with the final solution.
Sorry if this is flaming,
Cheers,
Eugen.
So for me, i would suggest using plain html files, which can be easily
committed to a cvs server, and that's it. There is some prework to do,
but this would be also need to do if we would switch to ${cms}.
So what do the others want to use?
Greets
Brian 'morlenxus' Miculcy
On Mon, Sep 11, 2006 at 11:29:11PM +0300, Hisham Mardam Bey wrote:
Hello folks,
This email is not in direct response to any of the previous replies,
it is the result of a discussion that took place on #edevelop between
(mainly) shadoi, devilhorns, morlenxus, and myself (HandyAndy was also
consulted, as he is directly concerned in all of this).
The current situation is that we have e.org (terribly unmaintained),
get-e.org (mainly user docs, themes, general resources), and edevelop
(developer information, developer blogs, development news, info about
development projects).
The suggestion that took place on irc was mainly that we merge the
three separate efforts into a single entity (e.org) and have the
corresponding teams work together to do what they do best, maintain
the content, keep it up to date, and make sure its in tip-top shape
around the clock.
This thread is currently discussing what to use, and how to do things.
Our discussion on irc suggested that since we already have a general
idea about who the team will consist of, we should primarily let that
team (while keeping everyone up to speed via the mailing list) decide
on what they would like to use and how things should be done. They
will be updating e.org
Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:15:45 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:52:55 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:04:22 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300), Eugen Minciu wrote: There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho there should be just one www.enlightenment.org edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users. I agree that there should not be a get-e.org, but there is. It's far more political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is this: Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to enlightenment.org, and that's their choice. This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need some sort of way to edit content quickly. It does have the advantage of serving static pages. I couldn't name any other advantages, though. Then again, no one has seen fit to provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with an account, so... I can cache pages with Rails (quite easily). That should pretty much give you the same speed and is better because it keeps the data in the database too. We could also do a dozen things which would take a million years to do with something like PHP. There is lots of code already written for Rails, which can easily be plugged in. and there is even more code already done in php - as it's much more mature and wide-spread. most of the cms's and wiki's use it. i don't think this is a Yes but everyone is implementing the same things over and over again. Rails has plugins which can load functionality and generators which create code for you and this allows you to reuse other people's code in your application. This is what I meant when I said easily plugged in. You literally plug it in in minutes, sometimes seconds. decent argument for OUR NEEDS. this is not about arguing the technical potential of one language vs another. this is about making e.org more accessible to 1. readers (re-arrange navigation, pages etc. etc.) and 2. more accessible to contributors. let's not make this a my language/cms/whatever is better than yours debate. let's focus on bringing out the REAL ISSUES first - is it simply minor things that xsm needs added/changed/fixed? will it be fixed by a massive speedup to the publish process? is it something that xsm will need a mountain of work done to make it better for us (and resources to do that work are slim) so it might be better to look at alternate solutions? I only asked if we should do this, never said that we should. If you decide that XSM doesn't cut it and you have to work a ton to get it to do the stuff you want, the nice thing about Rails is that (from a developer point of view) it scales. We start off with a small XSM-like site (which should just take a couple of weeks to develop). Decent user registration and management. Easy to setup rights. Easy to add/edit/remove content (whatever you think that means). Use any common DB you want (even SQLite) or just plain files, if you like that better. You can add features to your heart's desire and applications don't grow into unamangeable monsters (like some PHP apps do). Conventions keep the code clean. so let's focus on what is the real problem - not jumping to let's write a cms! let's use wiki X, lets use cms Y. Absolutely! I'm just saying that if you guys decide not to use XSM anymore, developing a RoR based application might be a solution and I'd be interested in helping you guys out with that. Cheers, Eugen. I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS. If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs. Thanks, but I think we'd rather not. Not many of us know or use Ruby, and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken. I'd rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the developers. You've told me this before. Rake works for me and just about anyone else I know. True, I use gems but I've used debian packages in the past and it still works fine. What exactly is wrong with it? IIRC you had problems of some kind with building it. I've used it from debian packages, *buntu packages and I've used a FreeBSD port so other people don't seem to have this problem (or they seem to have packages) Ruby is 11 years old. It's as stable as stable gets. I need Rake to develop but you guys shouldn't need it to deploy. It's also not part of the Ruby distribution so I don't see why
Re: [E-devel] New patch for entranced and entrance
Hi, here's another patch for entrance.OK, I've done this acccording to what raster told me, I hope I understood these things properly.1) A shell should be run, so the users's profile is loaded. After thinking about it, this is a great idea indeed, this way if I have a ~/bin in my PATH my wm can run those applications directly (no strings attatched) and it's the right thing to do. 2) The first attempted shell should be the users's shell. This is almost guaranteed to have -l. We only try to run this if the shell isn't .3) We run /bin/sh -l. If the users's shell with a '-l' didn't work (maybe because it was uninstalled or something) we may get to this point. 4) If the above didn't work, we log a warning message and try to run /bin/sh without -l anyway. Note that the users's PATH, will probably not be setup properly in this case (at least for me programs in /usr/local/bin weren't available with the run thingie and my eapps in the favorite applications menu were missing) Oh, btw does the run thingie have a name so I can stop calling it the run thingie? :)5) If the above failed as well (the user's shell is uninstalled and /bin/sh was linking to it or whatever) we log an error message and cry :(( Some things that should me noted about my patch1) As before, X isn't started through a shell anymore. The cmdline is parsed and executed directly, since this was desired.2) I've cleaned up the code in entrance_session_start_user_session if a few ways. a) there was a 'shell' variable which wasn't getting used. I found a good use for it. b) the current code is structured in a weird way imho. The call to execl() is outside the fork switch, so, somehow, it would call the session in the child pid and recall entrance_login in the parent pid. Why would we want to do that? X will restart and entrance_login will get called again anyway, when the program exits.In my patch, the parent calls wait(), holding its pants on until the child's session ends. No more sleep(), less code in the function and things look a bit more normal(). 3) In _entrance_session_execute_in_shell, each shell is called inside a fork, and waited for by the parent process. This is done so we can catch errors like 'sh: Illegal option -l'. Is this in any way wrong? 4) Oh, and ecore_x_shutdown(); and ecore_shutdown() are being called now, just like the TODO says.5) I've tested it in three ways.- working user shell- user shell not working, sh is a login shell- user shell not working, sh is not a login shell. Everything went well in all these circumstances.That's about it. Is this one any good?Cheers,Eugen.PS: Congrats Essien for changing the session handling. It works great now. On 8/29/06, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 06:12:47 +0200 Sebastian Dransfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED]babbled: Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:55:19 +0200 Sebastian Dransfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Eugen Minciu wrote: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:29:08 +0100 Essien Ita Essien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well .. then maybe we shouldn't clearenv() in the first place? We may not need to, since setenv(x,y,1) is called, which overwrites the var's contents anyway. I didn't want to try it before because I suspected clearenv() was there for good reasons (and it feels right, too). However, it's strange you should mention this .. there is: entrance_auth_setup_environment(Entrance_Auth * e, const char *display, const char *path) so the display is sent as a paramter and it _should be_ set by the function itself. Could you investigate this a bit further? I'm willing to try not clearenv () - ing but it may introduce some even subtler (and weirder) problems. If you think it shouldn't though I'll try it out later on tonight, when I've some free time on my hands. clearenv must stay. The user must not inherit any environment from entrance. well- it does NEED to inherit DISPLAY... for starters. :) the problem is actually entrance executing enlightenment directly. no other dm does this as best i know. every login session is first executed by a shell which then executes the wm or session manager etc. thus the behavior issues. wm's like e expect to have a users environment already loaded by the time they run. (ie users $PATH is set and all the other goodies a user wants in their SHELL) DISPLAY is set by entrance for the user, so I would not call it inherit from entrance. clearenv first, then set user environment (DISPLAY++), then launch user session in a login shell. well the only way to set an env var inchild process is to set it before theprocess runs (either in the parent env or explicitly in the exec) :)but edoesnt magically set it itself :)--- Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am -- The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED]裸好多Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need
Re: [E-devel] New patch for entranced and entrance
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:01:54 +0300
Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And here is another version that frees the memory it allocates in the correct
place.
Sorry about so many posts on what should have been a simple thingie. It's the
first patch I'm sending you guys, I promise I'll try to shut up a bit more from
now on ;)
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 05:04:10 +0100
Essien Ita Essien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ouch, sorry, lol :)
Here it is
Eugen Minciu wrote:
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:22:38 +0300
Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And finally, I've got it.
The problem was in entrance_auth_setup_environment() which called
clearenv().
For some reasong calling getenv() there did not return the path either.
So I added an extra parameter, const char *path.
This finally works, I can run apps and everything appears to be working
correctly.
Nice, but no patch attached ;)
Eugen.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:36:31 +0300
Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've figured out what causes the problem, but I don't know how to fix it
this time.
This happens because once I replace the execl() call in
entrance_session_start_user_session, the environment variables for the
user are no longer loaded. If anyone could tell me how to load these
settings from C code, I'd very much appreciate it.
As things stand, at this point, entrance does work with this, and the
E17 session starts, but many issues can quickly be noticed, probably
caused by not setting the environment variables to some proper values.
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:30:58 +0300
Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry, it seems that if I use this I get some issues within e. If I try
to start an application from the run command thingie, it will tell me
that the application failed to start.
I'll try to see what causes this. If anyone would be willing to
investigate and/or give me any clues it would be appreciated.
Here's a new patch for entranced and entrance.
This time I did what the comment suggested in both places. I used
strtok and parsed directly into a char ** which then gets run by
execv/execvp.
If my code strikes you as ugly (I'm not sure if it should) be sure to
tell me what I did wrong and I'll try to fix it some more.
BTW, this diff is made from e17/apps/entrance. I'm sorry, is this what
you meant or should I have made it dirrectly from e17/ ?
Eugen.
-
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Index: src/client/entrance_auth.c
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/e/e17/apps/entrance/src/client/entrance_auth.c,v
retrieving revision 1.26
diff -u -r1.26 entrance_auth.c
--- src/client/entrance_auth.c 9 Aug 2005 08:11:32 - 1.26
+++ src/client/entrance_auth.c 28 Aug 2006 08:15:59 -
@@ -377,7 +377,7 @@
* I'm not sure if this is correct, but for now it works.
*/
void
-entrance_auth_setup_environment(Entrance_Auth * e, const char *display)
+entrance_auth_setup_environment(Entrance_Auth * e, const char *display, const
char *path)
{
extern char **environ;
int size;
@@ -394,10 +394,15 @@
environ = NULL;
#endif
+ /* We purge the config but keep $PATH in place */
+ /* We need this because we're not running sh -l anymore */
+
+
e-env = environ;
snprintf(buf, PATH_MAX, %s/.Xauthority, e-pw-pw_dir);
setenv(XAUTHORITY, buf, 1);
setenv(TERM, vt100, 0); // TERM=linux?
+ setenv(PATH, path, 1);
setenv(HOME, e-pw-pw_dir, 1);
setenv(SHELL, e-pw-pw_shell, 1);
setenv(USER, e-pw-pw_name, 1);
Index: src/client/entrance_auth.h
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/e/e17/apps/entrance/src/client/entrance_auth.h,v
retrieving revision 1.13
diff -u -r1.13 entrance_auth.h
--- src/client/entrance_auth.h 28 May 2005 09:31:14 - 1.13
+++ src/client/entrance_auth.h 28 Aug 2006 08:15:59 -
@@ -77,7 +77,7 @@
/* 0 on success, 1 on no user by that name */
int entrance_auth_user_set(Entrance_Auth * e, const char *str);
-void entrance_auth_setup_environment(Entrance_Auth * e, const char *display);
+void entrance_auth_setup_environment(Entrance_Auth * e, const char
*display,const char *path);
void entrance_auth_reset(Entrance_Auth * e);
#endif
Index
Re: [E-devel] New patch for entranced and entrance
On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:29:08 +0100 Essien Ita Essien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well .. then maybe we shouldn't clearenv() in the first place? We may not need to, since setenv(x,y,1) is called, which overwrites the var's contents anyway. I didn't want to try it before because I suspected clearenv() was there for good reasons (and it feels right, too). However, it's strange you should mention this .. there is: entrance_auth_setup_environment(Entrance_Auth * e, const char *display, const char *path) so the display is sent as a paramter and it _should be_ set by the function itself. Could you investigate this a bit further? I'm willing to try not clearenv() - ing but it may introduce some even subtler (and weirder) problems. If you think it shouldn't though I'll try it out later on tonight, when I've some free time on my hands. One more thing, this could actually be caused by the parsing thingie. Maybe just using strtok() on spaces is breaking something? What are the command lines for X, entranced, entrance and e? on your system. (both with and without the patch) ? If you can't find anything I might find some time to look through xdm's code tonight. I hope I don't have to look at the other two :) Cheers, Eugen. Eugen Minciu wrote: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 08:01:54 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And here is another version that frees the memory it allocates in the correct place. Sorry about so many posts on what should have been a simple thingie. It's the first patch I'm sending you guys, I promise I'll try to shut up a bit more from now on ;) I've tested this here and it doesn't start Enlightement at all. The DISPLAY environment variable is not set, but I'm not sure that simply setting it like you set the PATH variable is a good work-around. It will probably hide something else untill it blows up in our collective faces :) I'm going to commit the bash before sh work around, which at least works. Do you think you could find out how gdm and kdm even xdm solves this problem? Display Managers have evolved so I'm guessing this is an already solved problem. If you think you need anyhelp... shout... at me even :). Other safe targets for *help-me* are (in no order of preference really), raster, raster, raster, rephorm, rephorm, rephorm, Codewarrior, Codewarrior, Codewarrior [there... without adding me, you now have 9 ppl!!! you can get help from) :P /me boards the next space-shuttle headed for pluto - catch me if you can ;) Cheers, Essien On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 05:04:10 +0100 Essien Ita Essien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ouch, sorry, lol :) Here it is Eugen Minciu wrote: On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:22:38 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And finally, I've got it. The problem was in entrance_auth_setup_environment() which called clearenv(). For some reasong calling getenv() there did not return the path either. So I added an extra parameter, const char *path. This finally works, I can run apps and everything appears to be working correctly. Nice, but no patch attached ;) Eugen. On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:36:31 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've figured out what causes the problem, but I don't know how to fix it this time. This happens because once I replace the execl() call in entrance_session_start_user_session, the environment variables for the user are no longer loaded. If anyone could tell me how to load these settings from C code, I'd very much appreciate it. As things stand, at this point, entrance does work with this, and the E17 session starts, but many issues can quickly be noticed, probably caused by not setting the environment variables to some proper values. On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:30:58 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, it seems that if I use this I get some issues within e. If I try to start an application from the run command thingie, it will tell me that the application failed to start. I'll try to see what causes this. If anyone would be willing to investigate and/or give me any clues it would be appreciated. Here's a new patch for entranced and entrance. This time I did what the comment suggested in both places. I used strtok and parsed directly into a char ** which then gets run by execv/execvp. If my code strikes you as ugly (I'm not sure if it should) be sure to tell me what I did wrong and I'll try to fix it some more. BTW, this diff is made from e17/apps/entrance. I'm sorry, is this what you meant or should I have made it dirrectly from e17/ ? Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly
Re: [E-devel] New patch for entranced and entrance
It _should_ inherit DISPLAY (as it's passed through a parameter to the function. This thing does work on my machine, remember?Also Essien told me he is currently working on fixing up session detection through ecore_desktop, so this may just be a case of our code not playing nice together ;) Could someone else test this? Pretty please? .If this doesn't work and you decide you do want a shell to be launched (it might be better indeed), could we at least do the 'bash first' thing so systems with /bin/sh linking to braindamaged shells like dash can work? (as long as the _do_ have bash). We could also try other ones, bash is just the only one I know that works for sure with the SIGUSR1 thingie. Cheers,Eugen.On 8/29/06, Essien Ita Essien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Justin Patrin wrote: On 8/28/06, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:55:19 +0200 Sebastian Dransfeld [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled: Eugen Minciu wrote: On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:29:08 +0100 Essien Ita Essien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well .. then maybe we shouldn't clearenv() in the first place? We may not need to, since setenv(x,y,1) is called, which overwrites the var's contents anyway. I didn't want to try it before because I suspected clearenv() was there for good reasons (and it feels right, too). However, it's strange you should mention this .. there is: entrance_auth_setup_environment(Entrance_Auth * e, const char *display, const char *path) so the display is sent as a paramter and it _should be_ set by the function itself. Could you investigate this a bit further? I'm willing to try not clearenv() - ing but it may introduce some even subtler (and weirder) problems. If you think it shouldn't though I'll try it out later on tonight, when I've some free time on my hands. clearenv must stay. The user must not inherit any environment from entrance. well- it does NEED to inherit DISPLAY... for starters. :) the problem is actually entrance executing enlightenment directly. no other dm does this as best i know. every login session is first executed by a shell which then executes the wm or session manager etc. thus the behavior issues. wm's like e expect to have a users environment already loaded by the time they run. (ie users $PATH is set and all the other goodies a user wants in their SHELL) FWIW I have also modified entrance to start a shell script instead of X directly for use in OpenZaurus to allow the normal X startup scripts to be run. In that case, what's the right approach here? I don't pretend to knowwhich is prefarable really. Raster, is there something unique about Ethat necessitated Entrance to be written that way? Or would it be better for E as a whole if it where changed to be more like others... roughlyin the direction that Justin has gone for OpenZaurus?-Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easierDownload IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] Entranced does not start entrance properly
Hi, I have an issue with running entranced. I have a Debian 3.1 Testing box with XOrg 7.0.0 running. I've compiled Entrance sucessfully but running entranced (either directly, or from /etc/init.d/entrace) does not start entrance itself. When I run entranced, X starts but entrance does not start within it. After this, entranced bails out, saying it cannot start the X server. However, the X server is successfully started, and it continues to run after entranced has quit. Also, If i start xinit -e entrace, entrance starts successfuly. I had already compiled entrance with -g and I tried debugging it, but I'm not a genius at that. It seems to me that before x is started the x_cmd variable is somehow corrupted. Is there any chance of that happening? How do I turn debugging on so I can see more of what's happening? What other information would you guys want? Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Entranced does not start entrance properly
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:39:45 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I ran the debug again. It isn't corrupted. There was a \000 at the end of the string like there should have been, it was just gdb printing more data beyond that \000 The command that get executed is: /usr/X11R6/bin/X -quiet -nolisten tcp vt7 -auth /var/lib/entrance/:0.Xauth :0 Hi, I have an issue with running entranced. I have a Debian 3.1 Testing box with XOrg 7.0.0 running. I've compiled Entrance sucessfully but running entranced (either directly, or from /etc/init.d/entrace) does not start entrance itself. When I run entranced, X starts but entrance does not start within it. After this, entranced bails out, saying it cannot start the X server. However, the X server is successfully started, and it continues to run after entranced has quit. Also, If i start xinit -e entrace, entrance starts successfuly. I had already compiled entrance with -g and I tried debugging it, but I'm not a genius at that. It seems to me that before x is started the x_cmd variable is somehow corrupted. Is there any chance of that happening? How do I turn debugging on so I can see more of what's happening? What other information would you guys want? Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Entranced does not start entrance properly
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:50:24 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found out what was causing the problem. Just like it says in the code. /* FIXME: need to parse command and NOT go thru /bin/sh */ /* why? some /bin/sh's wont pass on this SIGUSR1 thing... */ apparenty dash is one of those /bin/sh's :( Maybe it would be better if we were to check that /bin/bash exists and execute that instead of /bin/sh if it does? If that seems OK to you guys I'll write the patch in a couple of hours. On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:39:45 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, I ran the debug again. It isn't corrupted. There was a \000 at the end of the string like there should have been, it was just gdb printing more data beyond that \000 The command that get executed is: /usr/X11R6/bin/X -quiet -nolisten tcp vt7 -auth /var/lib/entrance/:0.Xauth :0 Hi, I have an issue with running entranced. I have a Debian 3.1 Testing box with XOrg 7.0.0 running. I've compiled Entrance sucessfully but running entranced (either directly, or from /etc/init.d/entrace) does not start entrance itself. When I run entranced, X starts but entrance does not start within it. After this, entranced bails out, saying it cannot start the X server. However, the X server is successfully started, and it continues to run after entranced has quit. Also, If i start xinit -e entrace, entrance starts successfuly. I had already compiled entrance with -g and I tried debugging it, but I'm not a genius at that. It seems to me that before x is started the x_cmd variable is somehow corrupted. Is there any chance of that happening? How do I turn debugging on so I can see more of what's happening? What other information would you guys want? Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Entranced does not start entrance properly
Fixed it. Here's a patch that runs /bin/bash first. If that doesn't work execl should return so the next line should run after that ( execl(/bin/sh, ...) I also found the same issue when entrace starts the session. The same fix finally got everything working corectly. BTW, I'm new to this patching thing ... Should I have ran cvs diff -u in e17/apps/entrance so both files would have been inside the same diff? Cheers, Eugen. Index: entranced_display.c === RCS file: /var/cvs/e/e17/apps/entrance/src/daemon/entranced_display.c,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -u -r1.2 entranced_display.c --- entranced_display.c 1 Aug 2006 05:30:58 - 1.2 +++ entranced_display.c 27 Aug 2006 15:50:27 - @@ -162,6 +162,10 @@ sigaction(SIGUSR1, _entrance_x_sa, NULL); /* FIXME: need to parse command and NOT go thru /bin/sh */ /* why? some /bin/sh's wont pass on this SIGUSR1 thing... */ + + /* FIXME: PARTIAL FIX: try to run /bin/bash before /bin/sh + * because /bin/bash works */ + execl(/bin/bash,/bin/bash,-c, x_cmd, NULL); execl(/bin/sh, /bin/sh, -c, x_cmd, NULL); syslog(LOG_WARNING, Could not execute X server.); exit(1); Index: entrance_session.c === RCS file: /var/cvs/e/e17/apps/entrance/src/client/entrance_session.c,v retrieving revision 1.84 diff -u -r1.84 entrance_session.c --- entrance_session.c 3 Jun 2006 07:24:49 - 1.84 +++ entrance_session.c 27 Aug 2006 16:07:16 - @@ -497,6 +497,7 @@ entrance_session_free(e); /* replace this process with a clean small one that just waits for its */ /* child to exit.. passed on the cmd-line */ + execl(/bin/bash, /bin/bash, -l, -c, buf, NULL); execl(/bin/sh, /bin/sh, -l, -c, buf, NULL); } - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] New patch for entranced and entrance
Here's a new patch for entranced and entrance.
This time I did what the comment suggested in both places. I used strtok and
parsed directly into a char ** which then gets run by execv/execvp.
If my code strikes you as ugly (I'm not sure if it should) be sure to tell me
what I did wrong and I'll try to fix it some more.
BTW, this diff is made from e17/apps/entrance. I'm sorry, is this what you
meant or should I have made it dirrectly from e17/ ?
Eugen.
Index: src/client/entrance_session.c
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/e/e17/apps/entrance/src/client/entrance_session.c,v
retrieving revision 1.84
diff -u -r1.84 entrance_session.c
--- src/client/entrance_session.c 3 Jun 2006 07:24:49 - 1.84
+++ src/client/entrance_session.c 27 Aug 2006 22:25:00 -
@@ -377,10 +377,16 @@
{
pid_t pid;
char buf[PATH_MAX];
+ char *session_cmd_argv[32];
+
char *shell = NULL;
struct passwd *pwent = NULL;
Entrance_X_Session *exs = NULL;
+ int i;
+
+ for (i=0;i32;i++) session_cmd_argv[i]=NULL;
+
if (e-session)
exs = evas_hash_find(e-config-sessions.hash, e-session);
@@ -497,7 +503,13 @@
entrance_session_free(e);
/* replace this process with a clean small one that just waits for its */
/* child to exit.. passed on the cmd-line */
- execl(/bin/sh, /bin/sh, -l, -c, buf, NULL);
+
+ session_cmd_argv[0]=strtok(buf, );
+ i=1;
+ while ((session_cmd_argv[i]=strtok(NULL, ))!=NULL) {
+ i++;
+ }
+ execvp(session_cmd_argv[0], session_cmd_argv);
}
Index: src/daemon/entranced_display.c
===
RCS file: /var/cvs/e/e17/apps/entrance/src/daemon/entranced_display.c,v
retrieving revision 1.2
diff -u -r1.2 entranced_display.c
--- src/daemon/entranced_display.c 1 Aug 2006 05:30:58 - 1.2
+++ src/daemon/entranced_display.c 27 Aug 2006 22:25:00 -
@@ -124,6 +124,11 @@
double start_time;
char x_cmd[PATH_MAX];
+ int i;
+ char *x_cmd_argv[32];
+
+ for (i=0;i32;i++) x_cmd_argv[i]=NULL;
+
/* Ecore_Exe *x_exe; */
pid_t xpid;
@@ -160,9 +165,15 @@
_entrance_x_sa.sa_flags = 0;
sigemptyset(_entrance_x_sa.sa_mask);
sigaction(SIGUSR1, _entrance_x_sa, NULL);
- /* FIXME: need to parse command and NOT go thru /bin/sh */
- /* why? some /bin/sh's wont pass on this SIGUSR1 thing... */
-execl(/bin/sh, /bin/sh, -c, x_cmd, NULL);
+
+ x_cmd_argv[0]=strtok(x_cmd, );
+ i=1;
+
+ while ((x_cmd_argv[i]=strtok(NULL, ))!=NULL) {
+ i++;
+ }
+
+execvp(x_cmd_argv[0], x_cmd_argv);
syslog(LOG_WARNING, Could not execute X server.);
exit(1);
default:
-
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Re: [E-devel] New patch for entranced and entrance
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:36:31 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've figured out what causes the problem, but I don't know how to fix it this time. This happens because once I replace the execl() call in entrance_session_start_user_session, the environment variables for the user are no longer loaded. If anyone could tell me how to load these settings from C code, I'd very much appreciate it. As things stand, at this point, entrance does work with this, and the E17 session starts, but many issues can quickly be noticed, probably caused by not setting the environment variables to some proper values. On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:30:58 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, it seems that if I use this I get some issues within e. If I try to start an application from the run command thingie, it will tell me that the application failed to start. I'll try to see what causes this. If anyone would be willing to investigate and/or give me any clues it would be appreciated. Here's a new patch for entranced and entrance. This time I did what the comment suggested in both places. I used strtok and parsed directly into a char ** which then gets run by execv/execvp. If my code strikes you as ugly (I'm not sure if it should) be sure to tell me what I did wrong and I'll try to fix it some more. BTW, this diff is made from e17/apps/entrance. I'm sorry, is this what you meant or should I have made it dirrectly from e17/ ? Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] New patch for entranced and entrance
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:49:40 +0100 Essien Ita Essien [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed. But it seems that just passing the environ pointer to an execve() call is not sufficient. What bash -l does is invoke /etc/profile ~/.bash_profile etc. So I need a way to parse those files (at least from a command line). The problems comes from the fact that my torture shell of the day (dash) does not implement a '-l' option. While I can easily run any other shell besides dash (and right now I run bash, for the time being), doing so does not hide the problem. It may be possible that other shells besides dash do not implement the -l option either. But for now, just applying the part of the patch that reffers to src/daemon/entranced_display.c means Entrance will work for shells that don't do SIGUSR1 but _do_ implement a -l option. So this may actually do some good (not sure though). Eugen Minciu wrote: On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:30:58 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, it seems that if I use this I get some issues within e. If I try to start an application from the run command thingie, it will tell me that the application failed to start. I'll try to see what causes this. If anyone would be willing to investigate and/or give me any clues it would be appreciated. I'm not sure... but can you check that your environment variables are intact? It seems you'll need to pass the environment with the exec call so entrance can also pass that to e when it spawns e. Good job tackling that tho... appreciated :) Here's a new patch for entranced and entrance. This time I did what the comment suggested in both places. I used strtok and parsed directly into a char ** which then gets run by execv/execvp. If my code strikes you as ugly (I'm not sure if it should) be sure to tell me what I did wrong and I'll try to fix it some more. BTW, this diff is made from e17/apps/entrance. I'm sorry, is this what you meant or should I have made it dirrectly from e17/ ? Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] New patch for entranced and entrance
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:22:38 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And finally, I've got it. The problem was in entrance_auth_setup_environment() which called clearenv(). For some reasong calling getenv() there did not return the path either. So I added an extra parameter, const char *path. This finally works, I can run apps and everything appears to be working correctly. Eugen. On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:36:31 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've figured out what causes the problem, but I don't know how to fix it this time. This happens because once I replace the execl() call in entrance_session_start_user_session, the environment variables for the user are no longer loaded. If anyone could tell me how to load these settings from C code, I'd very much appreciate it. As things stand, at this point, entrance does work with this, and the E17 session starts, but many issues can quickly be noticed, probably caused by not setting the environment variables to some proper values. On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 22:30:58 +0300 Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, it seems that if I use this I get some issues within e. If I try to start an application from the run command thingie, it will tell me that the application failed to start. I'll try to see what causes this. If anyone would be willing to investigate and/or give me any clues it would be appreciated. Here's a new patch for entranced and entrance. This time I did what the comment suggested in both places. I used strtok and parsed directly into a char ** which then gets run by execv/execvp. If my code strikes you as ugly (I'm not sure if it should) be sure to tell me what I did wrong and I'll try to fix it some more. BTW, this diff is made from e17/apps/entrance. I'm sorry, is this what you meant or should I have made it dirrectly from e17/ ? Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] Suspend functionality for Entrance
Hi, I'd like to add functionality for a 'suspend to disk' feature in Entrance, on Linux boxes. Right now, I'd like to allow this using uswsusp, which is the easiest to set up (it does require a very new Linux kernel version though). Of course, it should also be easy to setup for swsusp2. Suspend to RAM could also be used with uswsusp, though I'm not sure about swsusp2. Also, I'm not aware of 'suspend to whatever' status in FreeBSD or any other supported operating systems at the moment. So as I see it right now, I should code the following. 1) Check to see wether the OS supports suspend to ram or suspend to disk. 2) Add two callbacks for each of the operations. 3) Display two buttons for this functionality. In fact it could even be 3 buttons as uswsusp can suspend to both at the same time. Or maybe we shouldn't even bother with extra buttons maybe the user should see a menu, or maybe he should be allowed to select a 'default mode of operation', where, if he chooses so, the power off button would suspend to hard-drive, or to RAM. I'm waiting on your opinion regarding this entire thing. Also, I can't do any graphical stuff (clueless) so if I you guys decide you want me to do this, I can't be of any help with the graphics. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Suspend functionality for Entrance
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:08:52 + Hannes Janetzek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This sounds good too. It would be even better as a module, I think. I'm waiting for some other opinions on this subject and if other people agree, I'll try to start writing it in a few days. Am Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:43:58 +0300 schrieb Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, I'd like to add functionality for a 'suspend to disk' feature in Entrance, on Linux boxes. Right now, I'd like to allow this using uswsusp, which is the easiest to set up (it does require a very new Linux kernel version though). Of course, it should also be easy to setup for swsusp2. Suspend to RAM could also be used with uswsusp, though I'm not sure about swsusp2. Also, I'm not aware of 'suspend to whatever' status in FreeBSD or any other supported operating systems at the moment. Hm, I don´t think entrance would be the best place for this funtionality, since suspend is normaly used to resume to all open applications in their current state. But a module would be really nice :) I thought about doing such a module. With config for what should happen on acpi events like lid-open/close, etc, etc.. If you start making a module, I could do the suspend2 stuff, since it is the only method that works for me. Regards, Hannes So as I see it right now, I should code the following. 1) Check to see wether the OS supports suspend to ram or suspend to disk. 2) Add two callbacks for each of the operations. 3) Display two buttons for this functionality. In fact it could even be 3 buttons as uswsusp can suspend to both at the same time. Or maybe we shouldn't even bother with extra buttons maybe the user should see a menu, or maybe he should be allowed to select a 'default mode of operation', where, if he chooses so, the power off button would suspend to hard-drive, or to RAM. I'm waiting on your opinion regarding this entire thing. Also, I can't do any graphical stuff (clueless) so if I you guys decide you want me to do this, I can't be of any help with the graphics. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
[E-devel] Devian module proposal
I was thinking it would be very cool if the devian module could have email modules (or devians if you will), that would display the sender , the subject and maybe a snippet from the message body of one's email messages. Most of the code could probably be reused from the mail module. Is this possible? Would it be practical? Does anyone else share my opinion that this would be a nice feature? I'm waiting on your thoughts regarding this? Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] Devian module proposal
On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:42:49 -0500 Sthithaprajna Garapaty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its definitely possible. You might be limited to a text or very limited html mail viewer. Or you could not display the body for html messages and just do it for text ones, or not display the body at all. What I want is a way to see if the latest email in my inbox is worth reading. However, I believe it is a lot more work on top of the mail module. Plus, you need to deal with issues like.. which mail do you show on there? Is it always the latest email? Well you see the latest RSS feed don't you? What if the latest email sends to be spam.. do you really want that on your desktop? Do you want a whole menu system so the user can select the email to be displayed? Well, if it's in my inbox I'll see it when I open my mail application anyway. While I agree that this is objectionable, that's why it's a module. If you have children or can't stand spam messages on your desktop you don't turn it on. Also, while it sounds like an interesting idea.. I dont see much use for it when I can see ALL my email (not just one) by firing up my mail client. Because it would be more efficient then keeping an email client open at all times (less mem), because I could see it without specifically looking for the email client, and because it isn't an extra opened window (which gets in my way). (You know what'd be useful.. a devian mod that prints kernel messages ;)) --Sthitha On 8/19/06, Eugen Minciu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking it would be very cool if the devian module could have email modules (or devians if you will), that would display the sender , the subject and maybe a snippet from the message body of one's email messages. Most of the code could probably be reused from the mail module. Is this possible? Would it be practical? Does anyone else share my opinion that this would be a nice feature? I'm waiting on your thoughts regarding this? Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:24:45 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1) Move the data into its own repository not going to happen. the data is an internal part of the projects - it gets modifed 8new icons, images etc.) and is part of the build process. so not going to happen. the code is useless without the data - there is no point splitting it and doing so is a tonne of work that makes building more painful for developers and users. I can agree to the fact that it is hard. But it's only hard because it would take some amount of time to perform. The process of doing so isn't that complex. Yes, the code does require the data so ... 5) Make the source require the data through pkg-config Secondly, I looked around to see just how much data was modified in e17 in the last month (with git you could have e16 as a separate repo, as I doubt it generates that much traffic). So here it is: apps/e: 8 modifications proto/etk: 8 modifications libs/ewl: 6 modifications proto/estickies: 6 modifications apps/entrance: 4 modifications proto/emphasis: 4 modifications apps/elicit: 2 modifications apps/e_utils: 1 modification libs/edje: 1 modification That's it. Now how many modification did the source code itself receive during this period? at this point - why bother with git at all. just ake tarball snaps. much less effort. Things would get up to 7 times faster then they are now, it's a lot easier to make multiple repositories, you don't have to mess with .cvsignore, and because it sends compressed data over the network you use up less bandwidth (if that's of any concern). It's a lot easier to mirror too. though git seems nice - i am beginning to think its not going to solve a lot. we need to really just provide alternate mechanisms to get the code and moe anoncvs mirros i think. At this point I doubt you guys agree with my view. So, my opinion is probably wrong and this is just a case of me being hard-headed. It would take about a week to get everything into place and there are probably many easier ways to get the same results. Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
OK. I'm done supporting git now ;) Time for other ideas. From what has allready been presented I find anoncvs mirrors as a better approach to tarballs, as many of us actually don't have the bandwith to download a dist tarball every week. CVS has hooks from what I can see.Yay. So after every commit we could set something up on the server to: Idea 1: 1) export the directory main directory (like apps/e) 2) make an archive of the export. Idea 2: The zip utility can update only a part of the archive that has changed. You could run something like zip -u e17 path/to/e17. I made a zip of the whole e17 module, changed a single file then ran update. It ran and updated everything in 11.5 seconds on my laptop. On your machine it could probably happen in less then 5. Again, you could combine this with the above and generate archives like apps_entrance.zip or whatever, which would update in less then a second. Thus, you could store just one version of the file at all times. People don't get confused with versions, they're always in sync with the repo and they can easily check if they're up to date with the help of md5 hashes. I could even write you some script which checks to see if a user is up to date and downloads the modified archives. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 02:19:28 -0400 Lyle Kempler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Git is interesting and all, and may offer some development advantages, but I keep harking back to 2 statements made earlier in this thread: 1) that we're interested in performance, and 2) the developer base is pretty small vs the userbase. In terms of (1), git may run slightly faster in some cases, but you're saying it's actually a little worse for checkouts (especially fresh ones, which I would not be surprised to find most users doing as they build or use Gentoo or whathaveyou). As I said, I'm not convinced that GIT is actually slower, there may be a bottleneck on the client's machine and packing data does seem to improve the process. For a single checkout Git/git takes 1:51 vs so long I got bored and killed it and Git/http takes 1:03 vs 1:38. But as I said, I'm quite convinced one of my machine's HDDs is actually the bottleneck, which is why I'm asking for someone to give us some other data. More importantly, this isn't a thread about developers or even would-be developers complaining it's too hard to do what they want to contribute to the source tree due to the SCM choice. This is all about users checking out code that's in development. Oh, I never said it was. From what I can see you guys are quite happy working with CVS. But it's never a bad idea to look at the alternatives. Even if you're not finding it too hard to do what you want now, you should check to see if other systems will actually let you do more. I'm just saying, in theory git can probably do more. The development model can be almost the same as with CVS or it can evolve into something completely diffrent. Whether that makes sense for Enlightenment, or whether you really care is ultimately your decision. One should choose the tool which is best suited for his work. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:43:47 -0400 Michael Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CPU load depends entirely on the box, but anoncvs is a P4 1.7 GHz with 15 minute load averages fairly consistently under 2. And it's doing Not exactly. The machine is doing fine; the only problem is that I had to limit simultaneous CVS pserver connections to 1 per IP and 24 total to keep the box usable. The result is that some people will have their connections refused during peak times, but the machine spends an awful lot of time doing nothing too, so unless everyone hits it all at once, it's fine. Any statistics on the load when 24 anon checkouts occur? Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] wallpaper theme dialogs
Maybe a little out of context but Aleksej wrote: So, from the user perspective, I have to think - what is going on, and which bg is the current. iirc, the ideology of good gui is make user to think as less as possible. It works that way for MS Windows, I guess. But it's not a good ui policy. A good UI policy is 'Make the default something that the majority likes and can work with easily and make it easy for people who don't to change it to their liking.' That's what the dialogs have those sizes, but as for the remembering of the curent bg, I agree with you. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
Hi everyone. I've been doing some thinking today. And I've been doing some testing as well. And there are a few things I realized. The first thing I realized is a reason why the pseudo-benchmark I created was giving out evil data. In git's case this is because git does a lot of extra operations on the client's disk (unpacking and such) which take up a lot of time. During that time the server wouldn't be under any load, which shows why the load on the server wasn't anywhere near constant. And then I realized why git wasn't really doing so well. And at the same time this is the reason why cvs isn't doing so well and, frankly no scm possibly could. The problem is that you have a truckload of binary data in the repository. There are many reasons why this shouldn't be so. 1) Binary data is way better off distributed in the form of archives, that can be mirrored by anyone (I'm thinking at least SF). That way people can get that data a lot faster and your server is happy too. 2) You don't change the binary data that much. And even when you do so, you could pacakge your data into archives like imlib2-data.tar.bz2 so that you repackage less. 3) Changes in binary data don't generally affect dependencies. They're not like API changes or whatever. Most of the time people will just need to grab one updated archive and that's it. 4) You could then use pkg-config to ensure the right version of the data is actually installed from your configure scripts. 5) Let's do some simple math. You have 100MB worth of files. These account to 60MB binary and 40MB text. When you try to compress this, as git does, you get around 50MB binary and 8MB test. So that accounts for almost 60MB. That means for every 60 people that would simultaneously download through CVS you can have 100 download through git (let's just ignore the other factors and focus on bandwith a little). Now suppose you have 40MB of text. With git you can then down to about 20% of the original size (maybe less, who knows). That means you could (in theory) actually have 5 times more downloads with git then with CVS. Now I'm not saying to not keep that data in a repo. You obviously have to. I'm just saying there's no need for people to have anonymous access to that repo, it could be for developers only. So, my suggestions are: 1) Move the data into its own repository 2) Convert the two repositories to git 3) Make that data repository devel-only. 4) Split the data into small packages (one for each data/ dir in the tree, I guess) 5) Make the source require the data through pkg-config 6) Have the data released as tarballs once it's changed (you can have that happen automatically with git, I'm assuming you can with the others as well) And that's it. But for all this babbling, is this really worth it? Like I said, I found client-side disk I/O to make the benchmarks mostly useless. But they still provide me with a good overview on server-side CPU Memory usage So I opted for a new approach. I would have two terminals on my client. In one I'd do something like 'sleep 5 ; svn checkout ...'. In the second I'd do 'time read'. I would press enter once when network traffic actually began and once again when it stopped and that showed me how much everything took. So here's the timings. The repos have no history attatched. Repo with data: CVS:0:46 SVN(svnserve): 1:16 SVN(HTTP): 1:58 GIT(git): 1:23 GIT(HTTP): 1:53 Same repo without data: CVS:0:12 SVN(svnserve): 0:28 SVN(http): 0:37 GIT(http): 0:13 And what about Git with its built in protocol? Just six seconds. How's that for taking some load off :) Of course you have to add/substract 1s for my timings on the keyboard but you get the overall idea. This is a very complicated way of doing things. But data should probably be separated from code. And it should probably be distributed in small archives. And people shouldn't have to use an SCM to get it. So ... Wadda ya say. Is this too complicated/ not worth it / stupid / braindamaged / interesting ? My brain farts more things like that on a regular basis. If the above makes sense, let me know and I'll give you a couple of other ideas as well :d Eugen. P.S: I knew Linus wouldn't lie ;) - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
Hello again, I was thinking that you might want to try something if you get a second machine up. From the man page of git-cvsimport: Imports a CVS repository into git. It will either create a new repository, or incrementally import into an existing one. So you might want to try using a git mirror of what you guys actually have on CVS. Now personally, I think moving to git alltogether is much better then this follow the cvs server sort of thing. There are just a couple of things that are really cool about git (and any distributed scm) versus cvs or svn. For those of you who know git well enough, sorry for writing this stuff, but I imagine there's an equal number of devs who don't so I just wanted to give people an idea on what it's about. 1) Local commits. You clone a remote repository (you get the history and everything) and you can then commit to your own local copy of the repository. Not only that but you can do just about everything you would do with cvs locally without even needing access to the server. Then when you're done you can merge your superfanstasticincredible feature with the main repository. 2) Local tags and branches. Well, it's part of what I said above but it should get some special notice. You get to branch from what you just cloned and so on ... 3) It's easy to setup. Basically you don't need to set it up at all. You just copy the .git/ directory from your repository to a server in something like http://e.org/e.git and you're all done. Then anyone can mirror it very easily. 4) The repository is well compacted with git-repack. For example, the part of the repository I had was 135MB in size (e17 without the history). With git-repack it all shrunk down to 52MB. Thanks for pointing that out, I wasn't aware of it. 5) The server seems to handle the load quite well, even though downloads may be a tad slower. Ultimately, the compression might turn out to make retrieving faster, and it is probably Now I know those so called benchmarks of mine don't indicate these but I have strong doubts about the conditions in which they are run. I believe git to be much faster then cvs if properly set up. And I've seen first hand that it doesn't beat the server to death on 20 simultaneous checkouts. 6) It can be mirrored and offered for retrieval in a variety of methods. There's git:// rsync:// and http:// and it can probably be setup with other webservers like lighttpd (though my attempts to use lighttpd with a git repo misteriously failed). 7) A larger emphasys on branching may actually be good. You might eventually want to create a more stable branch, or you might want to try to rewrite some library in the EFL, in a new cooler way or whatever. Ultimately that's my best argument for it. With git you can do stuff like that in a more natural way and I generally found that it offers an almost unlimited degree of freedom. I tend to believe it's more efficient but I can't really back my claim up with consistent numbers. I have provided a way to test it but my hardware isn't cut out for that. I'm still waiting for someone else's benchmark... But finally, the best way to test would be to use that second machine as a git mirror and see how well it behaves. You might even go as far as denying anoncvs for a while and telling people to use git for anonymous access instead. Well, anyway, you guys know better then I do. If you decide to keep on using CVS, I could make some sort of script to do CVS updates and make dist stuff on an event (like upon email notification or whatever), but it would have to be in Ruby. I can do that if you want to use SVN or Git as well. Your call. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
I will try to benchmark cvs, subversion and git today. If this doesn't take me too long I might throw in Mercurial as well. I'll set up a (insert one of the above SCMs) server on my desktop, with the repository on a tmpfs, with the enlightenment repository, and I'll grab it 100 times with my laptop on tmpfs as well, or maybe even more. That way I think I have a pretty good way of assessing exactly how well the server handles that kind of a load. I'll use tmpfs so that, my hdds aren't a bottleneck. The network works quite well, I hit 9MB/s on a regular basis so that should not be a problem either. There are basically 3 things I will be checking, and I'll average the results: 1) How much does it take to checkout the repository? 2) What is the average load on the machine during this time, in terms of CPU and Memory 3) How much network bandwidth is being used in the process. I'll post the exact details when I'm done but I think it's better that we see some hard numbers and not just try to convince everyone to use our own favorite. (Though in the process I hope I'll be able to convince you to use git). I'll post the exact way I did this so that people may replicate what I've done if anyone desires so. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:55:50 +0100 Shish [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In real life disks will be involved, it'd probably be good to take them into account. (I'd recommend doing both, to see what effect the I'll grab it 100 times with my laptop ... I was thinking a more appropriate benchmark would be to see how many parallel checkouts can be done at once before performance starts dropping -- Shish The problem comes from the fact that I can't really limit the connection speed in a process-based way. Basically, when I try to run x threads simultaneously the hdd will pull the speed of the entire process down and you have basically no way of telling which SCM is faster. They would probably all finish at once, or close to that, because they're limited by the speed of the device. Now I'd love to be able to run multiple threads simultaneously with tmpfs but this is a big repository and I haven't got the RAM to duplicate it that much. This benchmark is, well, a benchmark, so a big ball of salt should be carried around. But I tend to believe that at least in terms of CPU, the load on the server is equivalent if you have one client churning away at 4MB/s or a lot of smaller ones doing the same thing. It's really the memory that is affected but I understood this wasn't really the issue. The script is almost done, all I have to setup now is the git repository and I'm done. I have a problem because I didn't get all the cvs (just e17) and I don't have the history information anymore (you can't keep it unless you use a mechanism like rsync). I hope this isn't an issue but I will post the script along with the results and I encourage anyone with enough time on their hands to run the test on their own machines/network. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
Hi, I've spent a lot of time on this, but the results are ... shall we say ... interesting. Before proceeding I have to remind you, again that I only used e17 without the version info, so you will probably want to try this out for yourself. The script I wrote checked the average time for a checkout. I found that checkouts from the git server take a pheonmenally long time and I was too tired to wait for it (somewhere along the lines of 3-5 minutes, not sure really). That makes me think I may have not set it up. If there's anything I should have done, or more info you would like, include it here. I've also found that git offers another very interesting thing. Rsync as a protocol for its client (similar to the way it uses http, there's no need for any extra modules or configuration, you just copy the tree somewhere and it works. I also kept an eye on the CPU and memory load on the server. So here's what I found. CVS: - Average checkout time: 41.843s - CPU used: Constantly around 70% (something like 60-80% - MEM used: 2-3% SVN (svnserve): - Average checkout time: 27.921s - CPU used: 50-90% - Mem used: 2% SVN (http): - Average checkout time: 61.239s - CPU used: 70-90% - Mem used: 10-12% * Git/HTTP: - Average checkout time: 98.962s - CPU used: 4% - Mem used: 10-12 * * Somehow I think Apache caches a lot of the stuff out because the memory gets allocated and remains there after the fun is over. So this looks very weird. And at the end of the day it doesn't really prove too much. SVN and Git (particularly Git) are really gentle on the server's resources at the expense of higher download times. But this is once again, a single connection, in a pedal-to-the-metal attempt to get the repository as quickly as possible. I have not optimized anything in here, but feel free to do it yourselves. The script is written in Ruby, just make sure to change the constants for the commands at the top of the file. I eventually ran in 20 times because 100 seemed like way too much. Hope you guys can use the data, or at least the script. Cheers, Eugen. scm_benchmark.rb Description: Binary data - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
Well I went outside for a while and it did me good. I have a new ideea for testing out the scm servers. Yay ;) Instead of trying to actually save the items on my hard disk I'll try to redirect them to /dev/null. I allready saw how I can do this with cvs and I hope I'll find a way to do it with both svn and git. So I'll be modifying the script, I'll have it create around 500 threads so that each thread will receive about 10K/s. I guess that should be a pretty acurate description of how much load a large system takes upon itself. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:07:16 +0900 Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: actually - i think we need to know how this works WITH data on disk - why? some scm's may invoke much more disk IO than others and thus bottleneck at the disk earlier than others. we need to know. unless you mean save on the client side - then thats fine. but its server-side we really care about here - remember :) Well ... it was client side, but it didn't work as I couldn't find a way to send the files to the bit bucket with either svn or git. word seems to have it that git is da shitsnizzle when it comes to performance - but i am going to want to see the numbers. how many clients can connect and checkout and/or update and how long does it take vs. the load on the server etc. Well I oficially declare my numbers crap. I hold my laptop responsible for this mess and I don't really trust a single number here. And I'll explain why in a minute. Here are the numbers, but as I said, I really don't think they should be considered usefull. Consider this to be FUD. CVS: - CPU Load: Max - Mem Load: 45% - Checkout Time: 296.374s SVN: - CPU Load: 20% ( It was 20% in the last test as well I believe, all processes seem to share the same CPU usage.) - Mem Load: 40% - Checkout Time: 658.576 SVN/HTTP: - CPU Load: 70-90% - Mem Load: 60% - Checkout Time: 874.618 GIT (git protocol): - CPU Load: Max - Mem Load: 10-15% - Checkout Time: 2345.243 GIT (http): - CPU Load: 5% - Mem Load: 10-12% - Checkout Time: A lot, from what I could see, it was cloning at a very low rate. I used actual disk access on both the client and the server, Apache2-mpm-worker, SVN with FSFS and that's about it. A spec of machines would be missing the point. The point is they aren't any good for these kinds of benchmarks. It looks really suspicious to me that times seem to increase linearly among the tested SCMs, even though this wasn't the case in the first test. Also, I often found network traffic dropping to 0 because the laptop's HDD couldn't take the heat anymore. Also, the version of the script I tested with did not wait after one SCM finished and moved directly to the next one. I don't think that was a good idea. Now, Git with http was excellent in terms of CPU Memory usage but I'm not really sure why it wouldn't go past 1.5MB/s (ever). It would have probably taken me an hour or so, and that's on a LAN which is pretty much unacceptable. But here's the script. Feel free to change the number of threads at the top of the script (it's currently at 20) but please make note that you need about 180MBx number of threads available. Change the lines near the top to specify how the checkout commands should be run in your environment. If you want to add another test but lack the Ruby know-how just tell me what you need and I'll patch it up for you. Finally make a new directory, copy the script there and execute 'ruby scm_benchmark.rb'. And that's it. So ultimately I urge someone with more patience and two solid machines to give my little test a spin. Please don't make any decision based on my data. Pretty please! And Carsten, if this doesn't turn you on, I'm sorry ;) Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
Now I wonder what that 'Attatch' button does? ... Sorry bout that. Eugen. scm_benchmark.rb Description: Binary data - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) wrote: It has come to my attention that yet again we are killing systems. yes - we are becoming a burden on yet more cvs servers. we are monsters! :( anyway - we have been living on caosity's cvs for a while now - but we are killing it (sorry kainx!) so its time to finally bite the bullet and dredge up the issue of us needing servers again. here is what i think we need: 1. devel cvs server + future web server (for downloads too of official tarballs etc.) 2. an anonymous cvs server and possibly second download mirror. so 2 systems really. i hear that svn is significantly less load for anonymous access - even developer - who has experience with this server-side? can you confirm or deny? i would consider a possible move to svn if we can keep our history from cvs. so - let the flames begin. Now I know this is probably not going to sound right but how about a git repository?. I'll give you some information about in case you're not up to speed with it and/or what it can do. If you are then sorry for wasting your time. It is a distributed revision control system but it has a whole bunch of very cool features. Here are a few of them, stolen from git's homepage: - supports rapid and convenient branching and merging - repositories can be easily accessed via the efficient Git protocol (optionally wrapped in ssh) - they can also be accessed simply using HTTP - you can publish your repository anywhere without _any_ special webserver configuration required. (that should make it very easy to mirror). - very fast and scales well even when working with large projects and long histories - commonly an order of magnitude faster than most other revision control systems, and several orders of magnitude faster on some operations You can find the said webpage on http://git.or.cz/ There's a section called Git for CVS users you might want to check out. I've actually worked with if for a couple of small projects of mine. Anyway here are a few extra things to note. Git in itself is rather complicated to use. It is designed to be quite low-level. However, there are programs like cogito, that work on top of the low-level git commands. Now I've used subversion for a couple of years, and I've used CVS for a very short time and if you've used either one of them, cogito is a snap. There are conversion tools available, but again I haven't tested them just yet. But if you're interested I can give it a spin and tell you guys how everything goes. Here's a page to check out CVS importing: http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/cvs-migration.html There's a tool called gitweb, which is a web interface for Git repositories. For an example, you might want to try the kernel's git page: http://www.kernel.org/git/ I for one, think it would be pretty cool if enlightenment was to be developed using cogito. It allows for very quick branching/merging, it's very fast and quite easy to pick up as well. I haven't used it for anything massive though but you could always just set up a read-only repository and ask people to download from it. All you have to do is convert your CVS tree into a git tree and copy that on one of your webservers. That's my (rather long) 2 cents anyway. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:01:06 +1000 David Seikel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Strangely enough, another large, old open source project I am involved in is having exactly the same conversation. One of them came up with this - http://wiki.metalforge.net/doku.php/user:rednaxela:scmtable It may be helpful. Git isn't there. Now I hope I understand all of the points in that table, and I also hope I understand git well enough, but here's a listing for git (based on my knowledge). - Protocol: dedicated / ssh / http-based/ email (at least partially). - Learning curve from CVS: medium (imho) - Network based access: No, it uses smoke signals. Doh! - Multiplatform: Yes. - Access control lists: Yes, with SSH - Read-only access to everyone: Yes - Supported by Sourceforge co.: Yes, with SSH (though I don't think it's that relevant here). - Receive email notification upon a commit: Almost, you have to do a chmod +x on a script to enable it to be run. ( see http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/hooks.txt ) - Readily available/easily installable software: Yes - Tracking of when merges are done: Yes - Good branch handling: Yes - Efficient use of resources: From what I can tell it's impressive, the git developers say it's around an order of magnitude faster, sometimes more. It was designed with a primary focus on efficiency so I tend to think it's pretty good. - Global revisioning: Yes - support for symbolic tagging within one repository: Yes - Atomic checkins: Yes (I think) - Maximum ability to do SCCS operations without access to repository: Yes (and it's a great thing to have imho) - good binary file handling: From what I've read yes, I believe GZip compression is used on binary data. - Ability to do local branches: Yes - Rename support: Yes. - Web view of repository: Yes So this is _my_ knowledge of how git works. If it's wrong sorry for any confusions this may cause. Anyway, I'll stop zealoting for git from now on, I just think it's really cool. But even if you guys won't go with it, I would still suggest using Subversion which I believe to be better then CVS. Cheers, Eugen. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid=120709bid=263057dat=121642 ___ enlightenment-devel mailing list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
