Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-08-01 Thread Robert Schwebel
On Fri, Aug 01, 2008 at 09:12:25AM +1000, Carsten Haitzler wrote:
  Note that the i.MX31 has a PowerVR MBX graphics core which is not
  documented publically. What's proposed as OpenGL ES support is a
  proprietary blob of source code which can be get under NDA from
  Freescale.

 yeah. i have yet to see any powervr gfx chip have drivers anything
 other than closed for GL (and with some nda etc. attached).

Btw, it may also be interesting to have a look at the Intel Atom
graphics chip here, because it has the same problem. Although it is
called GMA500 (and Intel documents their graphics controllers very well
these days), Wikipedia states that the GMA500 is also a PowerVR core:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA#GMA_500

So I'm wondering if it will be documented some day ...

rsc
-- 
 Dipl.-Ing. Robert Schwebel | http://www.pengutronix.de
 Pengutronix - Linux Solutions for Science and Industry
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 Hannoversche Str. 2, 31134 Hildesheim, Germany
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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-31 Thread Robert Schwebel
Hi,

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 05:27:35PM -0300, imx31cpu . wrote:
 I am new to the enlightment world and I will soon (tomorrow) start
 trying to port it to an embedded system (Freescale i.MX31 PDK -
 http://www.freescale.com/imx31pdk).
 
 Since I am not an experient developer on the linux environment I will
 probably have a hard time doing that so I would like to know if any of
 you have already tryed to do this porting or if you have any
 suggestion that might help me to have enlightment running on this
 system.

Note that the i.MX31 has a PowerVR MBX graphics core which is not
documented publically. What's proposed as OpenGL ES support is a
proprietary blob of source code which can be get under NDA from
Freescale.

Note also that the Freescale ltib BSPs may differ from Linux mainline.
We are working on better mainline compatiblity for i.MX31 at Pengutronix
while moving the Linux port for the phyCORE-i.MX31 forward, so expect
more mainline patches soon (we are still working on i.MX27 issues and
they have to be finished before moving on to i.MX31).

rsc
-- 
 Dipl.-Ing. Robert Schwebel | http://www.pengutronix.de
 Pengutronix - Linux Solutions for Science and Industry
   Handelsregister:  Amtsgericht Hildesheim, HRA 2686
 Hannoversche Str. 2, 31134 Hildesheim, Germany
   Phone: +49-5121-206917-0 |  Fax: +49-5121-206917-9


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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-31 Thread The Rasterman
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:23:53 +0200 Robert Schwebel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
babbled:

 Hi,
 
 On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 05:27:35PM -0300, imx31cpu . wrote:
  I am new to the enlightment world and I will soon (tomorrow) start
  trying to port it to an embedded system (Freescale i.MX31 PDK -
  http://www.freescale.com/imx31pdk).
  
  Since I am not an experient developer on the linux environment I will
  probably have a hard time doing that so I would like to know if any of
  you have already tryed to do this porting or if you have any
  suggestion that might help me to have enlightment running on this
  system.
 
 Note that the i.MX31 has a PowerVR MBX graphics core which is not
 documented publically. What's proposed as OpenGL ES support is a
 proprietary blob of source code which can be get under NDA from
 Freescale.

yeah. i have yet to see any powervr gfx chip have drivers anything other than
closed for GL (and with some nda etc. attached).

 Note also that the Freescale ltib BSPs may differ from Linux mainline.
 We are working on better mainline compatiblity for i.MX31 at Pengutronix
 while moving the Linux port for the phyCORE-i.MX31 forward, so expect
 more mainline patches soon (we are still working on i.MX27 issues and
 they have to be finished before moving on to i.MX31).
 
 rsc
 -- 
  Dipl.-Ing. Robert Schwebel | http://www.pengutronix.de
  Pengutronix - Linux Solutions for Science and Industry
Handelsregister:  Amtsgericht Hildesheim, HRA 2686
  Hannoversche Str. 2, 31134 Hildesheim, Germany
Phone: +49-5121-206917-0 |  Fax: +49-5121-206917-9
 
 
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The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-30 Thread Jose Gonzalez
   Gustavo wrote:

 On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Nick Hughart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote:
 
 On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 10:10 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
 On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:27:35 -0300 imx31cpu . [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 babbled:


 
 Hi,

 I am new to the enlightment world and I will soon (tomorrow) start
 trying to
 port it to an embedded system (Freescale i.MX31 PDK -
 http://www.freescale.com/imx31pdk).

 Since I am not an experient developer on the linux environment I will
 probably have a hard time doing that so I would like to know if any of
 you
 have already tryed to do this porting or if you have any suggestion that
 might help me to have enlightment running on this system.

   
 in fact.. you have to do almost no work... get openembedded up and
 working.
 openmoko uses it 0 for am arm based phone. mamona uses it for a fully
 open
 build for the nokia n8xx (arm based).. etc. etc.

 as such - all you need is an xserver.. and e will work. there is no
 porting to
 do that is arm-related - the code has been fixed and cleaned long ago so
 it
 just works... once you compile it. your biggest problem is a
 cross-compile
 environment for building software - you need to solve this anyway - and
 once
 you do (openembedded is a good option here), things just work.
 openembedded
 already has builds for enlightenment in it - as far as illume goes - it's
 a
 module for e17 to make e have a ui layout/setup that is much more
 phone/pda/handheld device friendly ui.

 
 well, I think his port was more about getting E into ltib, the
 canonical imx31 build platform. It's something like openembedded, but
 instead of .bb they use handicapped .rpm, with no dependency in the
 .rpm, since they moved dependency tracking to kconfig (linux kernel
 config/menuconfig, like busybox did)

 ProFUSION just got one imx31 board from freescale brazil, we did some
 packages but they're not finished yet.



   
 as vincent mentioned... openglES is an interesting idea - to date i have
 not
 had any time to really look at it. i know leonardo started playing with
 it...
 but didn't have any success. one day i'll get to it! :) but as such most
 of the
 work is done in the gl engine - it just needs some changes to adapt to
 GLES.

 
 Since we got one of these boards, we may try to give gles a try. But
 really, before even trying I might talk to you to check for things to
 look, like analyzing texture size and upload bandwidth, otherwise the
 port will be useless...   BTW, on my macbook with intel 965 mobile
 expedite reports about 2x gains on the software engine compared to gl,
 and this is using newer mesa/x, so I get the shaders and all fancy
 stuff on these boards Evas software engine rocks hard :-)

   
 A bit off-topic, but bear with me :)

 Well the i965 driver is actually quite shitty atm.  They are working more on
 render acceleration then 3D acceleration at this point from what I've seen.

 I just tested expedite on my NVIDIA 6600gt and it pretty much creamed the
 software engine in almost every test.  The only ones that the software
 really pulled out ahead where some of the simpler blending tests near the
 end.  Text rendering was even much faster which is something that I've never
 seen till I tested on this card.  So there may still be hope for the GL
 engine :)
 

 I know, but I just want to alert people that being HW or GL is not
 always good or better than sw implementation, some hardware is crappy,
 some lack good texture upload bandwidth, some have very small texture
 size and some, like i965, supposed to be great, are just bad and even
 having all those things are still slower than sw implementation.
   

  This is as subjective and convoluted a topic at times as licensing issues.
In time, it's possible that the current differences between 'hw' vs 'sw' will
be less clear, and similarly that 'gpu' vs 'cpu' will also be less obvious.
Who knows.. especially when one can consider different kinds of architectures
with lots of processors and could conceivably direct some towards given tasks.
Few models are solid enough that they can represent some other.
  It could be that really good, open, ubiquitous xrender or gl drivers
will emerge and make the software engine less attractive, and it could be that
multiple cpu architectures could better utilize the software engine for most
2D gui needs. Either way, there's no reason why all of those engine backends
shouldn't be replaced or improved -- again, given enough resources.



Spend time in gorgeous Hong Kong. Click now for great vacation packages!
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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-28 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:53:36 -0300 Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
[EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

  as such - all you need is an xserver.. and e will work. there is no porting
  to do that is arm-related - the code has been fixed and cleaned long ago so
  it just works... once you compile it. your biggest problem is a
  cross-compile environment for building software - you need to solve this
  anyway - and once you do (openembedded is a good option here), things just
  work. openembedded already has builds for enlightenment in it - as far as
  illume goes - it's a module for e17 to make e have a ui layout/setup that
  is much more phone/pda/handheld device friendly ui.
 
 well, I think his port was more about getting E into ltib, the
 canonical imx31 build platform. It's something like openembedded, but
 instead of .bb they use handicapped .rpm, with no dependency in the
 .rpm, since they moved dependency tracking to kconfig (linux kernel
 config/menuconfig, like busybox did)
 
 ProFUSION just got one imx31 board from freescale brazil, we did some
 packages but they're not finished yet.

ok - sounds cool. you both have the same hw. :) you have something to work on.

  as vincent mentioned... openglES is an interesting idea - to date i have not
  had any time to really look at it. i know leonardo started playing with
  it... but didn't have any success. one day i'll get to it! :) but as such
  most of the work is done in the gl engine - it just needs some changes to
  adapt to GLES.
 
 Since we got one of these boards, we may try to give gles a try. But
 really, before even trying I might talk to you to check for things to
 look, like analyzing texture size and upload bandwidth, otherwise the
 port will be useless...   BTW, on my macbook with intel 965 mobile
 expedite reports about 2x gains on the software engine compared to gl,
 and this is using newer mesa/x, so I get the shaders and all fancy
 stuff on these boards Evas software engine rocks hard :-)

hahahah! well... the software engine does do LOTs of optimising. like avoiding
overdraw... the gl engine doesnt try this - it's brute force. i could try and
expend more cpu cycles smartening it up to avoid exess work... but the gl
engine needs some love - maybe a gl enigne that can do both GL and GLES based
off the current one (then phase the current one out) and in this one really put
in all the smarts, dot all the i's and cross all the t's... :)

-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am --
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-28 Thread The Rasterman
On Sat, 26 Jul 2008 19:08:35 -0500 Nick Hughart [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:


 Well the i965 driver is actually quite shitty atm.  They are working 
 more on render acceleration then 3D acceleration at this point from what 
 I've seen.
 
 I just tested expedite on my NVIDIA 6600gt and it pretty much creamed 
 the software engine in almost every test.  The only ones that the 
 software really pulled out ahead where some of the simpler blending 
 tests near the end.  Text rendering was even much faster which is 
 something that I've never seen till I tested on this card.  So there may 
 still be hope for the GL engine :)

it all depends on your cpu..and gpu.. and drivers. on my desktop at home
(nv8600gt and a core2-duo 3ghz) the software engine is about 80% the speed of
gl in expedite... not too shabby - but this is thanks to a hyper-powerful
cpu... then again the gfx card isn't a slouch either! :)

-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am --
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-26 Thread The Rasterman
On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:27:35 -0300 imx31cpu . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 Hi,
 
 I am new to the enlightment world and I will soon (tomorrow) start trying to
 port it to an embedded system (Freescale i.MX31 PDK -
 http://www.freescale.com/imx31pdk).
 
 Since I am not an experient developer on the linux environment I will
 probably have a hard time doing that so I would like to know if any of you
 have already tryed to do this porting or if you have any suggestion that
 might help me to have enlightment running on this system.

in fact.. you have to do almost no work... get openembedded up and working.
openmoko uses it 0 for am arm based phone. mamona uses it for a fully open
build for the nokia n8xx (arm based).. etc. etc.

as such - all you need is an xserver.. and e will work. there is no porting to
do that is arm-related - the code has been fixed and cleaned long ago so it
just works... once you compile it. your biggest problem is a cross-compile
environment for building software - you need to solve this anyway - and once
you do (openembedded is a good option here), things just work. openembedded
already has builds for enlightenment in it - as far as illume goes - it's a
module for e17 to make e have a ui layout/setup that is much more
phone/pda/handheld device friendly ui.

as vincent mentioned... openglES is an interesting idea - to date i have not
had any time to really look at it. i know leonardo started playing with it...
but didn't have any success. one day i'll get to it! :) but as such most of the
work is done in the gl engine - it just needs some changes to adapt to GLES.

-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - I code, therefore I am --
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-26 Thread Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 10:10 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:27:35 -0300 imx31cpu . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 Hi,

 I am new to the enlightment world and I will soon (tomorrow) start trying to
 port it to an embedded system (Freescale i.MX31 PDK -
 http://www.freescale.com/imx31pdk).

 Since I am not an experient developer on the linux environment I will
 probably have a hard time doing that so I would like to know if any of you
 have already tryed to do this porting or if you have any suggestion that
 might help me to have enlightment running on this system.

 in fact.. you have to do almost no work... get openembedded up and working.
 openmoko uses it 0 for am arm based phone. mamona uses it for a fully open
 build for the nokia n8xx (arm based).. etc. etc.

 as such - all you need is an xserver.. and e will work. there is no porting to
 do that is arm-related - the code has been fixed and cleaned long ago so it
 just works... once you compile it. your biggest problem is a cross-compile
 environment for building software - you need to solve this anyway - and once
 you do (openembedded is a good option here), things just work. openembedded
 already has builds for enlightenment in it - as far as illume goes - it's a
 module for e17 to make e have a ui layout/setup that is much more
 phone/pda/handheld device friendly ui.

well, I think his port was more about getting E into ltib, the
canonical imx31 build platform. It's something like openembedded, but
instead of .bb they use handicapped .rpm, with no dependency in the
.rpm, since they moved dependency tracking to kconfig (linux kernel
config/menuconfig, like busybox did)

ProFUSION just got one imx31 board from freescale brazil, we did some
packages but they're not finished yet.


 as vincent mentioned... openglES is an interesting idea - to date i have not
 had any time to really look at it. i know leonardo started playing with it...
 but didn't have any success. one day i'll get to it! :) but as such most of 
 the
 work is done in the gl engine - it just needs some changes to adapt to GLES.

Since we got one of these boards, we may try to give gles a try. But
really, before even trying I might talk to you to check for things to
look, like analyzing texture size and upload bandwidth, otherwise the
port will be useless...   BTW, on my macbook with intel 965 mobile
expedite reports about 2x gains on the software engine compared to gl,
and this is using newer mesa/x, so I get the shaders and all fancy
stuff on these boards Evas software engine rocks hard :-)

-- 
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
http://profusion.mobi embedded systems
--
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: gsbarbieri
Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202

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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-26 Thread Nick Hughart
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri wrote:
 On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 10:10 AM, The Rasterman Carsten Haitzler
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 17:27:35 -0300 imx31cpu . [EMAIL PROTECTED] babbled:

 
 Hi,

 I am new to the enlightment world and I will soon (tomorrow) start trying to
 port it to an embedded system (Freescale i.MX31 PDK -
 http://www.freescale.com/imx31pdk).

 Since I am not an experient developer on the linux environment I will
 probably have a hard time doing that so I would like to know if any of you
 have already tryed to do this porting or if you have any suggestion that
 might help me to have enlightment running on this system.
   
 in fact.. you have to do almost no work... get openembedded up and working.
 openmoko uses it 0 for am arm based phone. mamona uses it for a fully open
 build for the nokia n8xx (arm based).. etc. etc.

 as such - all you need is an xserver.. and e will work. there is no porting 
 to
 do that is arm-related - the code has been fixed and cleaned long ago so it
 just works... once you compile it. your biggest problem is a cross-compile
 environment for building software - you need to solve this anyway - and once
 you do (openembedded is a good option here), things just work. openembedded
 already has builds for enlightenment in it - as far as illume goes - it's a
 module for e17 to make e have a ui layout/setup that is much more
 phone/pda/handheld device friendly ui.
 

 well, I think his port was more about getting E into ltib, the
 canonical imx31 build platform. It's something like openembedded, but
 instead of .bb they use handicapped .rpm, with no dependency in the
 .rpm, since they moved dependency tracking to kconfig (linux kernel
 config/menuconfig, like busybox did)

 ProFUSION just got one imx31 board from freescale brazil, we did some
 packages but they're not finished yet.


   
 as vincent mentioned... openglES is an interesting idea - to date i have not
 had any time to really look at it. i know leonardo started playing with it...
 but didn't have any success. one day i'll get to it! :) but as such most of 
 the
 work is done in the gl engine - it just needs some changes to adapt to GLES.
 

 Since we got one of these boards, we may try to give gles a try. But
 really, before even trying I might talk to you to check for things to
 look, like analyzing texture size and upload bandwidth, otherwise the
 port will be useless...   BTW, on my macbook with intel 965 mobile
 expedite reports about 2x gains on the software engine compared to gl,
 and this is using newer mesa/x, so I get the shaders and all fancy
 stuff on these boards Evas software engine rocks hard :-)
   
A bit off-topic, but bear with me :)

Well the i965 driver is actually quite shitty atm.  They are working 
more on render acceleration then 3D acceleration at this point from what 
I've seen.

I just tested expedite on my NVIDIA 6600gt and it pretty much creamed 
the software engine in almost every test.  The only ones that the 
software really pulled out ahead where some of the simpler blending 
tests near the end.  Text rendering was even much faster which is 
something that I've never seen till I tested on this card.  So there may 
still be hope for the GL engine :)

Another note, the XRender engine still sucks with NVIDIA :P


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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-25 Thread Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Michael 'Mickey' Lauer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Be sure to give OpenEmbedded a try, this will give you a major kickstart. All
 of E is in OE. Openmoko is relying on OE as well.

And it is WAY better than ltib. It have lots of packages, including E,
and their system is more sane, you'd avoid having to do all the work
on different places...

-- 
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
http://profusion.mobi embedded systems
--
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: gsbarbieri
Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202

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[E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-23 Thread imx31cpu .
Hi,

I am new to the enlightment world and I will soon (tomorrow) start trying to
port it to an embedded system (Freescale i.MX31 PDK -
http://www.freescale.com/imx31pdk).

Since I am not an experient developer on the linux environment I will
probably have a hard time doing that so I would like to know if any of you
have already tryed to do this porting or if you have any suggestion that
might help me to have enlightment running on this system.

Regards,

imx31cpu
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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-23 Thread Vincent Torri

Hey,

 I am new to the enlightment world and I will soon (tomorrow) start trying to
 port it to an embedded system (Freescale i.MX31 PDK -
 http://www.freescale.com/imx31pdk).

 Since I am not an experient developer on the linux environment I will
 probably have a hard time doing that so I would like to know if any of you
 have already tryed to do this porting or if you have any suggestion that
 might help me to have enlightment running on this system.

afaik, the efl run on nokia n800 and 810, are used in openmoko for their 
phone, and run (more or less) on some Windows CE devices. About 
enlightenment itself (the windows manager), raster has a wersion for 
openmoko named illume (http://illume.projects.openmoko.org/)

If you're working on linux, it depends on the graphic system that is used. 
You have mentioned linux, so if it's Xorg, you can quickly have a working 
evas, but it will not be hardware accelerated.

I've seen that that chipset has some graphics hardware acceleration, so 
you can maybe write an evas engine that is optimized for your chipset.

I think i've seen open gl es support:

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=i.MX31tab=Documentation_Tabpspll=1nodeId=0162468rH311432973ZrDRSelectedAsset=DocumentationProdMetaId=PID/DC/i.MX31fromPSP=trueassetLockedForNavigation=truecomponentId=2leftNavCode=1pageSize=25Documentation=Documentation/002Application
 
Notes

If so, you can also try to use our open gl engine as a base to write open 
gl es engine :)

hope this helps a bit.

regards

Vincent

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Re: [E-devel] Porting E to an ARM based embedded system.

2008-07-23 Thread Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 5:27 PM, imx31cpu . [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I am new to the enlightment world and I will soon (tomorrow) start trying to
 port it to an embedded system (Freescale i.MX31 PDK -
 http://www.freescale.com/imx31pdk).

 Since I am not an experient developer on the linux environment I will
 probably have a hard time doing that so I would like to know if any of you
 have already tryed to do this porting or if you have any suggestion that
 might help me to have enlightment running on this system.

Hi,

ProFUSION just got this board and we'll start to do the port soon. We
plan to create ltib integration to make it easier, if you want to know
more just let me know.

-- 
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
http://profusion.mobi embedded systems
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MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Skype: gsbarbieri
Mobile: +55 (19) 9225-2202

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