[EVDL] EVLN: BMW C Evolution ecycle is a pricey proposition that makes sense
http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/bmw-brings-electric-power-to-two-wheels-30612356.html BMW brings electric power to two wheels Dave Humphreys 24/09/2014 [images http://cdn3.independent.ie/incoming/article30612315.ece/df1d7/ALTERNATES/w1024/IMG_2226.JPG http://cdn1.independent.ie/incoming/article30612297.ece/d7e16/ALTERNATES/w1024/IMG_2202.JPG http://cdn2.independent.ie/incoming/article30612294.ece/0425a/ALTERNATES/w1024/IMG_2192.JPG ] BMW’s electric revolution is also moving onto two-wheels and despite its cost, the C Evolution is hugely impressive The significant investment into electric vehicle technology by BMW hasn’t just been restricted to its new BMWi sub-brand, its two-wheeled Motorrad division has also created something battery powered and it is every bit as impressive. Taking on a similar silhouette as the C600 Sport and C650 GT maxi-scooters, the C Evolution is very aptly named. Even by simply looking at it, you can tell that there’s something a little different about it - the bright flash of illuminous green at its core is one indication. As is the lack of any exhaust, meaning that the back end is a very neat design which shows off the single-sides swingarm and gloss black wheels. At the front a vertically-layered fairing design works well with the twin headlight units and also features an LED light bar running between them which acts as a daytime running light. The traditional dash display has been replaced with a smart, free-standing TFT colour display screen that feeds all the necessary information to the rider while the rest of the controls are as you would expect, with front and rear brakes levers (no clutch as this is an automatic transmission) and a driving mode button which enables the rider to select one of a variety of settings to either maximise performance or increase the range and strength of the regenerative braking effect, which feels just like a stronger type of engine braking. For the uninitiated it is a slightly eery sensation, pressing the traditional starter button brings up a ‘Ready’ message on the TFT display. No sound, no movement. It already feels futuristic. Gently wind on the throttle and the C Evolution simply creeps away just like any other bike. Even if you keep it in ‘Eco Pro’ mode (its most range-efficient setting) the performance is more than adequate for town riding and when you get accustomed to the nature of the regenerative braking effect you can also gauge it to the point where you will barely even need to apply the brakes when coming up to a red light. If that sensation is a little strange for you, there is also a ‘Coast’ function which doesn’t apply any form of regenerative braking. To get the most from the C Evolution you need to select Dynamic mode which then gives the maxi scooter some very impressive levels of performance. One of the best features of electric power is that you get all of the performance instantly, something that is very well demonstrated here. From a standing start the BMW feels rapid and can complete a 0-100km/h dash in 6.2 seconds although in truth it feels faster than that. The experience is made even more fun by the virtual silence - at most there is just the faint whir from the electric motor, which is then drowned out by wind noise as the speed increases. In terms of handling the BMW feels no less agile than any of its internal combustion-powered rivals thanks in part to a low centre of gravity and despite the battery pack’s size, its overall weight is only 265kg. The upright riding position is quite comfortable although the shorter-than-usual windscreen doesn’t protect as well at higher speeds. Storage is slightly limited in comparison to other similarly-sized scooters on the market due to the battery pack, although there is a small boot underneath the rear seat which can just about accommodate a full-face helmet while a small glovebox in the front section can, with some careful packaging, take the BMW’s charging cable. That battery pack is of course the main star of the show here. It consists of an air-cooled lithium-ion high voltage battery made up of three modules each of which contain 12 cells each. It can be fully charged from empty via a standard three-pin household plug, through its charging cable, in little over 4 hours, while a top up to around 80 per cent battery charge takes approximately two and a half hours. Once fully charged the C Evolution will give a riding range of around 100 kilometres and selecting Eco Pro mode will help to eek and further 10 to 20 per cent range. That may not sound like a huge range but for most urban commuters this would mean the need to charge the battery only a couple of times a week, rather than everyday. The beauty of this battery system is that it can also be charged anywhere where there is a plug socket within easy reach rather than the need for a dedicated charging point. And should you do so from home overnight, the reduced electricity rates should
[EVDL] EVLN: Kia Soul EV isn’t playing around, what they got right r:93/110mi
Kia adds Soul EV to the Canadian auto market http://www.slashgear.com/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-a-new-city-car-star-24347741/ 2015 Kia Soul EV First-Drive: A new city-car star Sep 24, 2014 Chris Davies [images http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-4.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-28.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-27.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-9.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-5.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-18.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-17.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-24.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-23.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-21.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/soul-cap.gif http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-16.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-12.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-13.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-14.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-15.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-0.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-3.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-1.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-26.jpg http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2015-kia-soul-ev-first-drive-sg-22.jpg ] Kia’s 2015 Soul EV may look cute, but the company isn’t playing around when it comes to its first all-electric car for the US market. Based on the hit Soul city car, but dumping the gas engines for a torquey electric powertrain, the Soul EV may be following the Leaf, 500e, and Focus EV to market, but its clearly used that extra time to learn from what they got right - and how to avoid their mistakes. Design The Soul has always been one of the more eye-catching city cars in gas form, and the Soul EV’s electric tweaks - some for aerodynamics, some in the name of just looking different - only help that. It’s pseudo-moon-buggy looks and upright stance have found favor with those who prefer to sit above the rest of traffic, as well as satisfying a market which might like the styling of a crossover but not want - or be able to afford - the full-sized thing. For the electric version, there’ll be four exterior colors, ranging from a clean white, through a blue with white roof, and all the way to an aggressive black with red highlights. The grill is larger, though blanked off unlike the regular Soul, and there’s ECO/Electric badging on the sides and at the rear. The projection beam headlights have blue-tinged trim - matching fog lamps come with the more expensive Soul EV+ model - while at the rear the light clusters use LEDs. 16-inch wheels with super low rolling resistance tires - a 10-percent cut in resistance compared to even regular low-resistance versions, Kia claims - were picked for their slipperiness, but they also look great with their inset white panels. Kia’s design has a second, more important factor however. The Soul EV was designed in parallel with its gas-powered counterpart, rather than having electric shoehorned in as an afterthought, while the body shape pays dividends when it comes to hiding all the extra tech. So, the batteries sit low down, but because of the height of the cabin and the sills you hardly notice any intrusion into passenger space. The rear seats are an inch or two higher than usual, and the trunk floor is a little more raised, but otherwise you could sit in the Soul EV and not realize you were carrying a sizable Li-Ion Polymer power pack. What you can’t escape is the extra weight, and so the underlying architecture carries a few changes from the roughly 300 pound lighter gas version. Five cross beams support the battery packs, and the pillars are reinforced too. Underneath there’s a full belly pane, which reduces drag by 5-percent. EV Powertrain and Performance Kia calls its car an “Urban EV” and the range reflects that. The official EPA figures suggest a 93 mile range - second only to a Tesla Model S, Kia points out, though you’re getting 208+ miles from Elon Musk’s car - from the 27 kWh batteries, sufficient for shuttling around town but probably not something you’d want to tackle a
Re: [EVDL] Lithium batteries direct from China
Hi, My motorcycle has 40AH GBS cells of which I use only 2 1/2 C and the cells are still doing great 3 1/2 years later. To give us some terms of reference, what does your M/C pull in amps at a steady 50mph and 70mph (if you go that fast!) and on strong acceleration? And how many miles does 3.5 years equate to, please? Regards, MW. On 30 Sep 2014, at 20:06, Byron James via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Steve Clunn wrote Didn't know you where testing so many cells , I just put 66 60 ah GBS's in a BMW they seem to be doing good. time will tell, they are dishing out 5 c without the cell voltage dropping below 3v . Yikes - the GBS specs call out max continuous discharge 3C. I would be careful pulling 5C. A Local GBS distributor destroyed, within a month, GBS cells charging and discharging GBS cells at 3C. I don't have their test procedure but it made me think twice about pulling 3C from GBS cells. My motorcycle has 40AH GBS cells of which I use only 2 1/2 C and the cells are still doing great 3 1/2 years later. On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:40 AM, Steve Clunn via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: Didn't know you where testing so many cells , I just put 66 60 ah GBS 's in a BMW they seem to be doing good. time will tell, they are dishing out 5 c without the cell voltage dropping below 3v . ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
You EV experimenters must have some facts here... Is it illegal to purchase, own or operate a non UL approved appliance? (Which?) (How do I prove it is OK)... We are trying to support a grass-roots solar panel idea for people in our church who don't have good sunny roofs or who don't have the money for a whole-house solar to at least buyin to solar in the form of a single panel and 250W inverter (ebay) that they can place in their front yard to show support for addressing climate change. We call it SunFlowers... See http://aprs.org/sunflowers.html But we cannot move on this until we resolve the legal issues. Since we are not selling anything but simply group-purchasing the solar panels and letting the individuals connect (and/or buy their own inverter) the two wires and plug it in, then who will prevent us (or sue us) for doing this? I am certain the utility will say it violates their terms of service., even though we will test each house and ASSURE that there is no backfeed and the house does present at least the minimum 250W load to assure there is no backfeed... But no utility would probably officially accept our testing... What if it was a licensed Electrician? Probably he would never approve a non UL appliance either... SO lets keep it at the UL appliance level. Is it ok to plug in a non UL approved appliance? And where does it say that? Bob, WB4aPR Sent from my awesome Samsung Galaxy Note 3 droid thing of doom! On Sep 30, 2014 10:54 AM, Robert Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu [SolarDIY] solar...@yahoogroups.com wrote: OK, so what is the legal situation if one uses a single solar panel connected to a single 250W (non-UL approved) grid-tie inverter. AND your minimum house load NEVER drops below 250W? In that case you are never backfeeding the grid, but are consuming 100% of the energy produced on your own premises. Given that these inverters *do* meet the non-islanding requirement that they cannot produce any AC power without a 60 Hz grid attached, they do meet the safety requirements. So, what is the requirements for any black box we plug into an outlet? If I find a home-made lamp at a flea market, it is not UL approved... am I doing something illegal if I plug it in ? What does UL approved mean? Sure it means something meets all the safety standards, but does the converse apply, that one is illegal if they use a non UL approved device? Bob __._,_.___ -- Posted by: Robert Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu -- Reply via web post https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SolarDIY/conversations/messages/1382;_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2djZWNjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzczODk0MjUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzI2OQRtc2dJZAMxMzgyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQxMjA5NjA1OQ--?act=replymessageNum=1382 • Reply to sender bruni...@usna.edu?subject=Re%3A%20Chinese%20inverters%20legality%3F • Reply to group solar...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Chinese%20inverters%20legality%3F • Start a New Topic https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SolarDIY/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcmRpM3F1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzczODk0MjUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzI2OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0MTIwOTYwNTk- • Messages in this topic https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SolarDIY/conversations/topics/1382;_ylc=X3oDMTM1am5tNTk3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzczODk0MjUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzI2OQRtc2dJZAMxMzgyBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxMjA5NjA1OQR0cGNJZAMxMzgy (1) Visit Your Group https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SolarDIY/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJmczFnMW9vBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzczODk0MjUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzI2OQRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzE0MTIwOTYwNTk- [image: Yahoo! Groups] https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOGNucGJpBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzczODk0MjUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA4MzI2OQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTQxMjA5NjA1OQ-- • Privacy https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html • Unsubscribe solardiy-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe • Terms of Use https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/ . __,_._,___ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/da8a26a0/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)
A copy of the form was attached to the original news item I read about this so I have read it. It doesn't say Tesla can take his car but it does say that before they would reactivate the car he had to take it to Tesla to be inspected at his expense (other sources say that Tesla says they won't charge for this but the form clearly states it's at his expense). If they're happy with the inspection they'll reactive the car. If they feel it needs additional repairs he has to take it to a Tesla service center for those repairs before they'll reactivate it. Or finally, they may decide that it's beyond repair and they will refuse to reactivate it. That last could be construed as taking his car because it will be basically worthless at that point. Tesla's stated position is that they're concerned about safety, but that's not really their problem any more. He'll need to get it inspected by the state before it can be declared roadworthy. There are a couple of 'hack the Tesla' groups out there. I think we'll need them if anyone expects to do anything with used Teslas. --Rick On 09/29/2014 02:19 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 28 Sep 2014 at 20:32, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: If the guy wants to hack a tesla, then simply sign the form. Done. Simply sign the form? It isn't that simple. On 28 Sep 2014 at 2:12, brucedp5 via EV wrote: ... he says the company wanted him to sign liability waiver that allows the automaker to ultimately determine the car´s roadworthiness. Rutman says ... that it would allow Tesla to confiscate the vehicle if they felt it wasn´t safe ... Tesla [says] ... nothing in the inspection authorization form they wanted Rutman to sign would have let them take his car away. That's a legal document you're talking about. If the owner is correct, he would be effectively giving up the ownership rights he paid for. Maybe I'm overly cautious, but I'm not like the folks who click right through software agreements. I actually read them so I know what I'm giving up. A couple of times, I've decided I don't need that program that badly after all. I also read mortgages before I sign them - all legal documents, in fact. If I were the owner here, I'd take that document to an attorney for an independent expert interpretation. If it really does allow Tesla to take the car on their unilateral determination that it's unsafe, it's an outrage. Tesla claims it doesn't really say that. Fine, but it wouldn't be the first time that a corporation said soothingly Just trust us, when the legal fine print said don't. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
Electrical things do not have to be listed by someone like UL. Some state and local governments may require UL (or something similar) as part of the fire and electrical code. The reason manufactures use approval services like UL is liability. Stores will often not sell things that are not listed because of liability concerns. Getting something listed shows the product was properly designed and has been tested by a qualified group of independent engineers to verify it meets the appropriate safety levels. When You connect to the grid then the power company has say in anything that can energies the power lines and they may require only listed devices. David Kerzel Modulsar EV Power LLC -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:52 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality? You EV experimenters must have some facts here... Is it illegal to purchase, own or operate a non UL approved appliance? (Which?) (How do I prove it is OK)... We are trying to support a grass-roots solar panel idea for people in our church who don't have good sunny roofs or who don't have the money for a whole-house solar to at least buyin to solar in the form of a single panel and 250W inverter (ebay) that they can place in their front yard to show support for addressing climate change. We call it SunFlowers... See http://aprs.org/sunflowers.html But we cannot move on this until we resolve the legal issues. Since we are not selling anything but simply group-purchasing the solar panels and letting the individuals connect (and/or buy their own inverter) the two wires and plug it in, then who will prevent us (or sue us) for doing this? I am certain the utility will say it violates their terms of service., even though we will test each house and ASSURE that there is no backfeed and the house does present at least the minimum 250W load to assure there is no backfeed... But no utility would probably officially accept our testing... What if it was a licensed Electrician? Probably he would never approve a non UL appliance either... SO lets keep it at the UL appliance level. Is it ok to plug in a non UL approved appliance? And where does it say that? Bob, WB4aPR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
UL (Underwriter Laboratories) is an independent agency that was founded by insurance underwriters who were losing money due to fires caused by home electrical appliances It promoted itself using scare tactic ads on TV that displayed TV sets catching fire and burning down homes. Al Lumas At 10:34 AM 10/1/2014, David Kerzel via EV wrote: Electrical things do not have to be listed by someone like UL. Some state and local governments may require UL (or something similar) as part of the fire and electrical code. The reason manufactures use approval services like UL is liability. Stores will often not sell things that are not listed because of liability concerns. Getting something listed shows the product was properly designed and has been tested by a qualified group of independent engineers to verify it meets the appropriate safety levels. When You connect to the grid then the power company has say in anything that can energies the power lines and they may require only listed devices. David Kerzel Modulsar EV Power LLC -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:52 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality? You EV experimenters must have some facts here... Is it illegal to purchase, own or operate a non UL approved appliance? (Which?) (How do I prove it is OK)... -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/b8a6268f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
Yes, UL listing to sell something is not necessary. Back to inverters. Be careful buying non UL Asian inverters. A lot of them do not have a neutral to ground tie. You will find instead that the ground prong or green wire is actually tied to the center tap of the output and that NEUTRAL is 60 volts from ground and that HOT is 60 volts from ground. Some would say this is actually less deadly. I won't call it as to contradict UL is, well not sanctioned? If you know that this is what you have and properly deal with it, then fine. Mark Grasser -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Al Lumas via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 2:03 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality? UL (Underwriter Laboratories) is an independent agency that was founded by insurance underwriters who were losing money due to fires caused by home electrical appliances It promoted itself using scare tactic ads on TV that displayed TV sets catching fire and burning down homes. Al Lumas At 10:34 AM 10/1/2014, David Kerzel via EV wrote: Electrical things do not have to be listed by someone like UL. Some state and local governments may require UL (or something similar) as part of the fire and electrical code. The reason manufactures use approval services like UL is liability. Stores will often not sell things that are not listed because of liability concerns. Getting something listed shows the product was properly designed and has been tested by a qualified group of independent engineers to verify it meets the appropriate safety levels. When You connect to the grid then the power company has say in anything that can energies the power lines and they may require only listed devices. David Kerzel Modulsar EV Power LLC -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 7:52 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality? You EV experimenters must have some facts here... Is it illegal to purchase, own or operate a non UL approved appliance? (Which?) (How do I prove it is OK)... -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/b8a6268f /attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
On Oct 1, 2014, at 10:34 AM, David Kerzel via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: When You connect to the grid then the power company has say in anything that can energies the power lines and they may require only listed devices. ...and, let's not forget: linemen have one of the roughest jobs, and they're out there in the middle of wretched weather putting the grid back together so we all can watch the TV news about how miserable the weather is out there. They're heroes who're all too often unsung...and if you're energizing a line that shouldn't have power on it, you could kill one of them. Please, please, please don't connect _anything_ that generates power to the grid until the power company has given it their blessing. It may seem like petty bureaucratic bullshit, or serious overkill, or the like -- and it may well be. But the guys doing the hard and dangerous work keeping the lights on deserve our thanks, and the best way to thank them is to put up with whatever nonsense the power company might ask before connecting generating devices to the grid. Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/3102feaa/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
What is be worried about, other than the UL listing, would be how long will they last? I used a line of Chinese made Pv inverters (which were UL listed, Canadian company) and found, after installing hundreds of them, that they had upwards of 10% failure rate in the first 8 years. Replaced under warrantee, some multiple times, but still an incredible hassle. Not worth the initial savings for something that's supposed to last 25+ years. Now, I mostly use just the German ones, because I havent had to deal with failures with them. Z On Wednesday, October 1, 2014, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Oct 1, 2014, at 10:34 AM, David Kerzel via EV ev@lists.evdl.org javascript:; wrote: When You connect to the grid then the power company has say in anything that can energies the power lines and they may require only listed devices. ...and, let's not forget: linemen have one of the roughest jobs, and they're out there in the middle of wretched weather putting the grid back together so we all can watch the TV news about how miserable the weather is out there. They're heroes who're all too often unsung...and if you're energizing a line that shouldn't have power on it, you could kill one of them. Please, please, please don't connect _anything_ that generates power to the grid until the power company has given it their blessing. It may seem like petty bureaucratic bullshit, or serious overkill, or the like -- and it may well be. But the guys doing the hard and dangerous work keeping the lights on deserve our thanks, and the best way to thank them is to put up with whatever nonsense the power company might ask before connecting generating devices to the grid. Cheers, b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/3102feaa/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/00097909/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)
On 1 Oct 2014 at 11:01, Rick Beebe via EV wrote: If they're happy with the inspection they'll reactive the car. Control freaks. Maybe other folks are fine with this. More power to you, no pun intended. But blast it, I already have enough things in my life that spy on me and/or restrict my rights, even though I've paid for them and SHOULD own and control them. I don't need one more. Bummer, because Tesla makes a nice EV. Not that I could afford one anyway, but still. BTW, a lot of EV folks cheered Tesla on in their spat with that reporter who tried to trash-talk the car. But the whole We know what you did, you drove in circles in a parking lot to kill the battery deal was just plain creepy. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)
I think the whole thing comes down to: - who owns the car and consequently - who is responsible if there is a safety issue with the car? If the answer is: the driver, then Tesla has no right to restrict the owner from doing with the car what he wants. What if he wants to drive the car only on his private property, because it is not allowed on public roads? Plenty of vehicles can only be used on private property far that reason and who is Tesla to take away the rights to the enjoyment of the car owner? On the other hand - if liability rests with Tesla then they are right to require inspection before re-enabling, because at least part ownership of the consequence of that enabling lies with them. As it looks now, they are only refusing to enable the car out of concern for their brand image... Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 1:55 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video) On 1 Oct 2014 at 11:01, Rick Beebe via EV wrote: If they're happy with the inspection they'll reactive the car. Control freaks. Maybe other folks are fine with this. More power to you, no pun intended. But blast it, I already have enough things in my life that spy on me and/or restrict my rights, even though I've paid for them and SHOULD own and control them. I don't need one more. Bummer, because Tesla makes a nice EV. Not that I could afford one anyway, but still. BTW, a lot of EV folks cheered Tesla on in their spat with that reporter who tried to trash-talk the car. But the whole We know what you did, you drove in circles in a parking lot to kill the battery deal was just plain creepy. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)
On Oct 1, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: As it looks now, they are only refusing to enable the car out of concern for their brand image... Ironically enough, they may well be doing their brand image more harm with their current actions than if they were to work with the guy b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/23d2500c/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)
disagree. Sounds like to me they are perfectly willing to work with the guy. But the guy is unwilling to work with them... bob On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Oct 1, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: As it looks now, they are only refusing to enable the car out of concern for their brand image... Ironically enough, they may well be doing their brand image more harm with their current actions than if they were to work with the guy b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/23d2500c/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/86502b8f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Electric Lt. Duty Trucks make $$ Dollars and Sense !!
OK ok... sorry, I'm on a VIA Kick this warm fall afternoon. Please don't think of it as a PITCH for VIA specifically, but the arguments, data, and such are for EV's in general. But here below is one of the many presentations on the Via Web site. I found the information and charts and figures very compelling. One could show this short Video to ANY skeptic, but especially business folks, to PROVE that Electric IS the way to go. $$ Dollars and Sense. ( not a typo ) And with $$ Millions of orders in their order bank, I think VIA is on their way !! ( http://www.viamotors.com/videos/via-presentation-at-plug-in-2013-by-alan-perriton/ ) -- Steven S Lough President EMERITUS Seattle EV Association 206 524 1351 WEB: www.seattleeva.org ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)
I am afraid I side with Tesla on this. As much as I like to be able to tinker with 'my stuff' here we have a very complex system with many sensors and actuators that are all controlled by the onboard computer systems. The car has been repaired by (apparently) someone with no training on making sure all these system, some of them safety systems, are working. Tesla says let us take a look, if it's all ok we will reactive the car, if not you have the choice of getting them fixed or abandoning the project. I read the 'at your cost' part to mean at a minimum that Tesla would not pay to transport the car from where ever it was to a suitable testing facility whether they would charge for the inspection or not. As an aside I had a similar talk with Mercedes when the onboard computer in my car got fried (wiring issue - their fault out of warrantee and no recall). I tried to get a replacement from the wreckers and was told sorry, the computer is flashed to the VIN of the car and unless I replace 'all' the various interlinked components including the keys it won't work - only a new computer will work. Talking to my non dealer mechanic he said many of the new cars are like this and there are system he can't easily service. Lawrence Harris On Oct 1, 2014, at 2:41 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: disagree. Sounds like to me they are perfectly willing to work with the guy. But the guy is unwilling to work with them... bob On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: On Oct 1, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Cor van de Water via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: As it looks now, they are only refusing to enable the car out of concern for their brand image... Ironically enough, they may well be doing their brand image more harm with their current actions than if they were to work with the guy b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/23d2500c/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141001/86502b8f/attachment.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
From: Mark Grasser via EV ev@lists.evdl.org Be careful buying non UL Asian inverters. A lot of them do not have a neutral to ground tie. You will find instead that the ground prong or green wire is actually tied to the center tap of the output and that NEUTRAL is 60 volts from ground and that HOT is 60 volts from ground. This is rather hard to understand. It would be a clear violation of the electrical code, and would result in a breaker trip if anything was plugged in that had ground tied to neutral, which could very well happen. (Ground and neutral are supposed to be at the same potential.) Entirely new ways of living are necessary, and if we don't adobt them voluntarily, we or our children will eventually adopt them involuntarily, and probably with great pain and difficulty in the process. -- Thom Hartmann Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
Jan, I agree entirely but yes, it is for real. Keep in mind that when using an inverter the ground to neutral tie is not present from the mains as you are disconnected from the mains. When the inverter is connected to the home / appliances it becomes the source of the relationship between gnd, neut, hot. We have tested numerous product and all of the less expensive stuff has the center tap output. We needed to instruct our manufacturers that the neutral / gnd tie has to be there, it is more expensive to manufacture, not sure why. Mark -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jan Steinman via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 6:06 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality? From: Mark Grasser via EV ev@lists.evdl.org Be careful buying non UL Asian inverters. A lot of them do not have a neutral to ground tie. You will find instead that the ground prong or green wire is actually tied to the center tap of the output and that NEUTRAL is 60 volts from ground and that HOT is 60 volts from ground. This is rather hard to understand. It would be a clear violation of the electrical code, and would result in a breaker trip if anything was plugged in that had ground tied to neutral, which could very well happen. (Ground and neutral are supposed to be at the same potential.) Entirely new ways of living are necessary, and if we don't adobt them voluntarily, we or our children will eventually adopt them involuntarily, and probably with great pain and difficulty in the process. -- Thom Hartmann Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EValert: !Don't buy a salvaged Tesla EV to repair drive! (video)
Even my 2000 Volvo V70 XC has parts like the throttle body that are flashed to the VIN of the car. Makes it impossible to use used parts. Pretty much forces you to the dealer also. Mike On October 1, 2014 4:04:24 PM MDT, Lawrence Harris via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: I am afraid I side with Tesla on this. As much as I like to be able to tinker with 'my stuff' here we have a very complex system with many sensors and actuators that are all controlled by the onboard computer systems. The car has been repaired by (apparently) someone with no training on making sure all these system, some of them safety systems, are working. Tesla says let us take a look, if it's all ok we will reactive the car, if not you have the choice of getting them fixed or abandoning the project. I read the 'at your cost' part to mean at a minimum that Tesla would not pay to transport the car from where ever it was to a suitable testing facility whether they would charge for the inspection or not. As an aside I had a similar talk with Mercedes when the onboard computer in my car got fried (wiring issue - their fault out of warrantee and no recall). I tried to get a replacement from the wreckers and was told sorry, the computer is flashed to the VIN of the car and unless I replace 'all' the various interlinked components including the keys it won't work - only a new computer will work. Talking to my non dealer mechanic he said many of the new cars are like this and there are system he can't easily service. Lawrence Harris ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
The center tap output greatly reduces the cost of the DC-DC boost converter which is the first stage of the inverter. If you wish to tie the output neutral to ground, you must use an isolated DC-DC boost converter which costs more than a non-isolated DC-DC converter. Most folks (besides UL) don't care if the neutral blade is tied to ground or not. As long as the ground is tied to chassis, and that is tied to the negative terminal of the input, most folks don't care. I can think of no modern commercial appliances that require that neutral be at ground potential. Bill D. At 04:12 PM 10/1/2014, you wrote: Jan, I agree entirely but yes, it is for real. Keep in mind that when using an inverter the ground to neutral tie is not present from the mains as you are disconnected from the mains. When the inverter is connected to the home / appliances it becomes the source of the relationship between gnd, neut, hot. We have tested numerous product and all of the less expensive stuff has the center tap output. We needed to instruct our manufacturers that the neutral / gnd tie has to be there, it is more expensive to manufacture, not sure why. Mark -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Jan Steinman via EV Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2014 6:06 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality? From: Mark Grasser via EV ev@lists.evdl.org Be careful buying non UL Asian inverters. A lot of them do not have a neutral to ground tie. You will find instead that the ground prong or green wire is actually tied to the center tap of the output and that NEUTRAL is 60 volts from ground and that HOT is 60 volts from ground. This is rather hard to understand. It would be a clear violation of the electrical code, and would result in a breaker trip if anything was plugged in that had ground tied to neutral, which could very well happen. (Ground and neutral are supposed to be at the same potential.) Entirely new ways of living are necessary, and if we don't adobt them voluntarily, we or our children will eventually adopt them involuntarily, and probably with great pain and difficulty in the process. -- Thom Hartmann Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chinese inverters legality?
Bill Dube via EV wrote: I can think of no modern commercial appliances that require that neutral be at ground potential. Pretty much all gas furnaces, water heaters, electric stoves, and other appliances that prove flame before they will open the main gas valve. The gas pipe is always grounded. A test probe is inserted into the pilot flame. High voltage AC (from AC hot) is applied to this probe through a very high impedance. If flame is present, it acts like a rectifier. The circuit detects the resulting rectified voltage to insure that a flame is present. -- Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently. -- Henry Ford -- Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
