Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

2017-05-30 Thread Bobby Keeland via EV 
A few years ago my wife and I bought two Catrikes brand recumbent tricycle.
After having three cirvical fusions in her neck my wife can no longer ride
a bicycle. The Catrikes a really fun to ride. Yes, I have rolled mine by
turning to quickly. About a year ago we added electric motors made by
Bionx. We can now ride further (we are in our mid-60s), but we do worry a
lot about not being seen by auto drivers.

On May 30, 2017 6:51 AM, "Chris Tromley via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> Other sources of insight are bentrideronline.com and recumbents.com.  Both
> have forums specifically for velomobiles, which is what you're building.
> Recumbents.com also has a lot of info on racing HPVs, which will get into
> efficiency, etc.  IHPVA.org might be a good source too.
>
> Chris
>
> On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org
> >
> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the
> > thing.  Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good
> > success with efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at
> 30mph
> > with a 20 inch wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc
> > but I'm willing to go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or
> > performance).  I will eventually have a shell with solar panels plus my
> 250
> > pound hunk O' fat.  Lawrence Rhodes
> > -- next part --
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Re: [EVDL] Most efficient hub motor for 20" wheel

2017-05-30 Thread George Tyler via EV 
If you use that ebikes.ca calculator, set the controller current limit well
above what the motor can handle, you will see maximum power at close to 50%
of maximum RPM, this is at full throttle, and current only limited by the
motor resistance. At that 50% speed efficiency is also around 50%. Lowering
the controller current limit setting shifts the maximum power point and
efficiency higher, up to 60 to 75% as you say. So, it all depends on the
controller. My "250W" ebike draws 675W at 15km/hr, and on the flat it does
30 km/hr. the 1kw ungeared Hub motors do better efficiency because they are
not running at the un- current limited maximum power point. The maximum
power allowed here is 300W, Europe is 250W. 

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lee Hart via EV
Sent: 31 May, 2017 4:29 AM
To: ken; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Most efficient hub motor for 20" wheel

ken via EV wrote:
>   I have a Bike E with a 20" rear wheel I want to put a 36 volt at 500 
> to
> 1000 watt hub motor there but I want it RPM effecint  for 20 mph. 
> where do i find such a wheel at reasonable price.

I also have a Bike-E, and have thought of electrifying it. But its handling
is such that I wouldn't feel comfortable with such a big motor. Keeping it
down to
20 mph is a good idea!

Note that PM motor efficiency tends to peak strongly near full power. At
light load, they are much less efficient, because you have full magnetic
losses all the time. So it may be better efficiency-wise to use a smaller
motor and gearing to achieve the best speed/efficiency tradeoff.

My Bike-E has a 7-speed rear hub, and of course a very long chain. My
thought was to mount the motor under the seat, with a freewheel sprocket to
the chain. 
That way, it gets the benefit of the gearing. The freewheel means you're not
spinning the motor when it's not being used while pedaling.

--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent.
It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move in the opposite
direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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[EVDL] Most efficient hub motor for 20" wheel

2017-05-30 Thread ken via EV 
 Where did you get the 20" hubmotor?

I want one for my bike  E .

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Re: [EVDL] Most efficient hub motor for 20" wheel

2017-05-30 Thread Bill Dube via EV 
It is important to keep in mind that an e-bike (and a motorcycle) are a 
"brick" aerodynamically. That is, e-bikes have a very high drag 
coefficient, like 0.5 or more. There is not much you can do about it, 
besides things that are unacceptable to most bicycle riders like 
enclosures and recumbent riding position, etc. You could also go slow. :-)


Most e-bike drive systems these days are amazingly efficient. Like 85% 
or better. That remaining 10 or 15% really won't make that much 
difference in the range and performance. The main "inefficiency" is 
aerodynamic and is unavoidable _if_ you want to stick with a 
conventional looking bicycle that you ride in the conventional position.


Bill D.

On 5/30/2017 10:28 AM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

ken via EV wrote:
  I have a Bike E with a 20" rear wheel I want to put a 36 volt at 
500 to

1000 watt hub motor there but I want it RPM effecint  for 20 mph. where
do i find such a wheel at reasonable price.


I also have a Bike-E, and have thought of electrifying it. But its 
handling is such that I wouldn't feel comfortable with such a big 
motor. Keeping it down to 20 mph is a good idea!


Note that PM motor efficiency tends to peak strongly near full power. 
At light load, they are much less efficient, because you have full 
magnetic losses all the time. So it may be better efficiency-wise to 
use a smaller motor and gearing to achieve the best speed/efficiency 
tradeoff.


My Bike-E has a 7-speed rear hub, and of course a very long chain. My 
thought was to mount the motor under the seat, with a freewheel 
sprocket to the chain. That way, it gets the benefit of the gearing. 
The freewheel means you're not spinning the motor when it's not being 
used while pedaling.




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Re: [EVDL] Most efficient hub motor for 20" wheel

2017-05-30 Thread Roger Stockton via EV 
Lee Hart wrote:

> My Bike-E has a 7-speed rear hub, and of course a very long chain. My
> thought was to mount the motor under the seat, with a freewheel
> sprocket to the chain.
> That way, it gets the benefit of the gearing. The freewheel means you're
> not spinning the motor when it's not being used while pedaling.

What you describe is similar to how we electrified Rob Cameron's Bike-E:



The main difference is that you propose using a freewheel to allow pedaling 
without spinning the motor (which is quite useful when the batteries run out), 
while our approach put a freewheel and an additional 7-speed cassette between 
the pedals and the motor shaft.

The freewheel allowed the cyclist's feet to remain stationary on the pedals 
while cruising under electric power (rather than being forced to spin at a 
speed determined by the electric motor), and the 7-speed cassette between the 
pedals and motor shaft allows the cyclist to provide assist at any cruising 
speed without having to pedal uncomfortably fast or slow.

A decided benefit of placing the motor mid-ship like this is that it breaks the 
very long stock chain run into two shorter, more manageable runs ;^>

Cheers,

Roger.

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Re: [EVDL] Most efficient hub motor for 20" wheel

2017-05-30 Thread Lee Hart via EV 

ken via EV wrote:

  I have a Bike E with a 20" rear wheel I want to put a 36 volt at 500 to
1000 watt hub motor there but I want it RPM effecint  for 20 mph. where
do i find such a wheel at reasonable price.


I also have a Bike-E, and have thought of electrifying it. But its handling is 
such that I wouldn't feel comfortable with such a big motor. Keeping it down to 
20 mph is a good idea!


Note that PM motor efficiency tends to peak strongly near full power. At light 
load, they are much less efficient, because you have full magnetic losses all 
the time. So it may be better efficiency-wise to use a smaller motor and gearing 
to achieve the best speed/efficiency tradeoff.


My Bike-E has a 7-speed rear hub, and of course a very long chain. My thought 
was to mount the motor under the seat, with a freewheel sprocket to the chain. 
That way, it gets the benefit of the gearing. The freewheel means you're not 
spinning the motor when it's not being used while pedaling.


--
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius, and a lot of courage, to move
in the opposite direction. -- Albert Einstein
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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[EVDL] Most efficient hub motor for 20" wheel

2017-05-30 Thread ken via EV 
 I have a Bike E with a 20" rear wheel I want to put a 36 volt at 500 to
1000 watt hub motor there but I want it RPM effecint  for 20 mph. where
do i find such a wheel at reasonable price.

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Re: [EVDL] Most efficient drive system for a bicycle/tricycle.

2017-05-30 Thread Chris Tromley via EV 
Other sources of insight are bentrideronline.com and recumbents.com.  Both
have forums specifically for velomobiles, which is what you're building.
Recumbents.com also has a lot of info on racing HPVs, which will get into
efficiency, etc.  IHPVA.org might be a good source too.

Chris

On Sun, May 28, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:

> I'm looking at options for my Terratrike.  Mid vs hub seems to be the
> thing.  Seems bike systems are only 80% efficient.  Has any one had good
> success with efficiency as well as speed.  I'm looking to top out at 30mph
> with a 20 inch wheel. Is voltage an issue?  I'd like to keep it to 48vdc
> but I'm willing to go higher or lower if it is an advantage(money or
> performance).  I will eventually have a shell with solar panels plus my 250
> pound hunk O' fat.  Lawrence Rhodes
> -- next part --
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> group/NEDRA)
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>
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[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170530

2017-05-30 Thread brucedp5 via EV 


http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-in-White-gt-Roof-Racked-Tesla-3-Spied-td4686931.html
EVLN: EV in White> Roof-Racked Tesla-3 Spied
It will set the criteria for the vehicles of the future. The future is one
of electric vehicles. We can all kiss fossil fuels goodbye forever, if
things continue in their pace ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Billionaire-Slim-eyeing-electric-taxi-to-reduce-pollution-in-Mexico-City-mx-td4686930.html
EVLN: Billionaire Slim eyeing electric taxi to reduce pollution in
Mexico_City.mx
“We're developing the prototypes and hope to finish them this year to find a
viable solution, an electric vehicle, that genuinely replaces gasoline-using
cars” ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Thailand-s-auto-industry-going-Electric-gt-Vera-V1-EV-td4686929.html
EVLN: Thailand's auto industry going Electric> Vera V1 EV
Is Thailand's automotive future going electric? Battery Electric Vehicles
(BEV's) could be front runners and five university professors from the King
Mongkut's ...

+
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Rare-Tesla-X-EV-Founder-Series-in-Signature-Red-crashes-gt-keep-eyes-on-the-road-td4686928.html
Rare Tesla-X EV Founder Series in Signature Red crashes> keep eyes on the
road
Driver unsure if Autopilot was on but ... I informed them that it was an
electric car and that it did not catch fire as ... Musk’s recently “shut
down” of referral code ‘abuse’ ...

http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EV-test-drives-as-EVDC-Tours-piece-de-resistance-td4686927.html
EV test drives as EVDC Tours' pièce-de-résistance
A crash course in electric cars
Instead, the EVDC is designed to deliver pressure-free EV education to
potential buyers, from the most basic of introductions to calculations on
gas savings ...




http://evdl.org/evln/
For all EVLN EV-newswire posts


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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