Re: [EVDL] To fully charge or not to fully charge that is the question

[David Rees via EV]

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Mark Hanson via EV  wrote:
> If that's the case I wonder why Nissan dropped the less than 100% requirement 
> from the newer 2014 and up vehicles?   I guess I don't understand why fully 
> charging and equalizing the cells would hurt battery life.  Maybe just a hang 
> on from the lead days :-).

Keep in mind that even though the removed the 80% charge option in the
USA in 2014, I believe that option still remains in European and
Japanese market vehicles. What isn't known, is if the chemistry in all
markets is the same or not.

Also keep in mind that Nissan still recommends against leaving the car
sit fully charged for long periods of time.

All lithium batteries will lose capacity faster when subjected to
higher temperatures or higher states of charge. So if you want to
maximize battery life, you want to keep those two variables lower.

It does seem that at least with the '11-13 LEAFs (it's too soon to
tell with the '14+ LEAFs), temperature makes a bigger difference than
SOC. Temperature related capacity loss should roughly follow Arrhenius
Equation which states that for every 10C rise in temperature, the rate
of chemical reactions (and thus capacity loss) will double.

Dave
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Re: [EVDL] Lawrence's L3 25kW CHAdeMO network on I-5 in CA

[David Rees via EV]

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 6:58 PM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> IMO, L3 should be ~50mi apart. This is for several reasons:
> - Short range EVs can use it (i.e.: iMiev)
>
> - as packs age their capacitiy is reduced, so even a tired (less than 90mi)
> Leaf pack charging from 10% to 80% (70% or 90mi = ~60mi) could utilize the
> L3 EVSE.
>
> - when the weather is cold, non/less thermally controlled packs will have
> less range, so keeping the distance between L3 EVSE ~50mi will still work
> for them

At least for my 2011 LEAF with 8 capacity bars remaining, 50 miles is
way too far apart.

An 80% charge only takes me about 30 miles to LBW. To turtle I might
have another 12 miles more. This is while driving at 65mph in good
weather.

If it were cold, wet or windy, it'd be even less.

So IMO, 25-30 miles apart would be better (funny enough, this is
typically about how far apart gas stations in rural areas)
For EVs with more range, they would be able to skip locations.

Tesla has started doing something interesting with their network.
Instead of evenly spreading out stations to add capacity, they have
started putting pairs of stations within a few miles together. IMO,
this makes a lot of sense. That way if one is counting on getting to a
charging station, but for some reason that station is down, busy or
whatever, they should almost certainly make it to the next one a
couple miles down the road.

Dave
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Re: [EVDL] i-MiEV EVs part of Mitsubishi mileage scandal (VW style cheating)

[David Rees via EV]

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 1:07 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> % We will have to see if the i-Miev EVs sold outside Japan also had their
> mileage data Mitsu-massaged %

Saying that this is "VW style cheating" is disingenuous at best.
Really, this is more like Ford style cheating who was caught a while
back fudging fuel economy numbers for the C-Max and Fusion hybrids.
There are probably lots of other examples. "VW style cheating" is on a
whole different level.

Dave
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Minnesota winters reduce Leaf EV's 135mi range

[David Rees via EV]

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 2:36 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> "It's supposed to go 135 miles,"

HAH! No wonder he's disappointed - the LEAF will only do that in
optimum conditions - cruise control on flat ground without HVAC at 35
mph or less.

-Dave
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Re: [EVDL] adding solar charging to 12 volt battery on LEAF

[David Rees via EV]

On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:43 PM, Bill Dube via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 If you have a good charge regulator with your solar panel, the rest of the
 12 volt system won't even know that the 12 volt is charging. You should buy
 a charge regulator that float charges the battery at ~13.5 volts. You just
 want to keep the 12 volt from going flat between uses.

Just keep in mind that the LEAF only floats the battery at 13.0V when
the car is on most of the time. Not sure what will happen if you try
to push the battery above that while the DC-DC inverter is on. It
could be OK, but just beware.

-Dave
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Re: [EVDL] Inexpensive retiree-friendly EV?

[David Rees via EV]

On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Ben Goren via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 So...if the insurance company winds up totaling the car, as we suspect they 
 might...can anybody suggest an inexpensive EV suited to a retired couple?

 It would need to be freeway-capable with a reliable won't strand-them 50-ish 
 mile range in a Phoenix summer with modest air conditioning usage.

I see that some have recommended LEAFs, but I personally would have a
hard time recommending one for Phoenix if you need 50 miles of range
on the freeway in the heat and expect to keep that range for years to
come.

Phoenix was the epicenter of rapid capacity loss for the 2011-2012
LEAF, after two years owners could not make it 50 miles per charge.
Now, if you lose enough capacity Nissan will install a new supposedly
heat-tolerant battery (or you can buy one for about $6k installed if
no longer under warranty) that should survive Arizona heat better, but
no-one is really sure how long even the heat-tolerant lizard pack
will last there.

After 4 years in southern California my '11 LEAF with 2 capacity bars
lost will do just about 50 miles on the freeway with light air
conditioning usage from 100% to the first low-battery warning at which
point there's about 12 miles of range left.

In my opinion, all the affordable EVs are risky investments for
someone on a limited budget who need a reliable 50 miles of range.
They might consider a used plug-in hybrid, like a Volt, whose battery
appears to be holding up much better in the heat. But they are also
priced more than the LEAF on the used market.

-Dave
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage

[David Rees via EV]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 6:48 PM, Michael Ross michael.e.r...@gmail.com wrote:
 Where were you able to learn these xVolts = y%SOC?

I logged them from my LEAF using a CAN bus reader (both LeafDD and Leaf Spy).

-Dave
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage

[David Rees via EV]

On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Paul Dove dov...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 Electrolyte breakdown occurs over 4.17 volts

I couldn't tell you exactly when electrolyte breakdown occurs on the
LEAF cells, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will vary
depending on things like temperature, voltage and the exact
electrolyte chemistry.

I would love to know where 4.17V comes from, exactly.

-Dave
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Re: [EVDL] Leaf Voltage

[David Rees via EV]

On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 1:16 PM, via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 I’m finally getting the new pack together and it’s made up of Leaf cells. 
 What voltage range should these cells have? I want to be conservative and 
 make this new pack last a very long time.

The LEAF charges them up to 4.10V on a 100% charge. You might see
4.12V maximum on a few cells, especially on the 2013+ LEAFs compared
to the 2011-2012 LEAFs which seem to charge to a slightly lower
voltage. The LEAF BMS will report this charge to be 95-96% or so.

An 80% charge will charge the cells to around 4.02V.

50% charge is around 3.90V.

You get the first low battery warning around 3.75V and the second
warning around 3.68V.

The car opens up the contactors around 3.30V, but you can probably
take it down to 3.0V or so if you do it very gently.

Some others have mentioned charging up to 4.2V, but I think that's too
high since Nissan doesn't get close to that.

-Dave
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: LEAF EV Pack Reliability Outperforms Cynics Critics (?)

[David Rees via EV]

On Fri, Mar 27, 2015 at 5:43 AM, Paul Dove via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 Well that just verifies what I said. You have no data other than coming from
 the Leaf instruments. If it calculates capacity incorrectly it will shut down 
 the car.
 You still don't know if the battery failed or the capacity measurement is off.
 One would have to measure voltage and amp hours to really know what is 
 happening

It's pretty easy to verify pack voltage using LeafSpy or LeafDD or
similar tools. I've verified that my LEAF is down close to 25% after
almost 4 years and almost 40k miles in southern California.

That said, the INL (Idaho National Laboratory) tested four 2012 LEAFs
in Arizona over a period of about 2 years and 50,000 miles - two were
only charged on L2, the other two were only charged using DC QC.

http://avt.inl.gov/fsev.shtml
http://avt.inl.gov/pdf/energystorage/DCFC_Study_FactSheet_50k.pdf

Battery capacity was verified by pulling the packs and measuring
capacity using a defined test protocol.

While the DC QC cars fared slightly worse, at the end of 50k miles the
L2 charged cars had lost almost 25% of their capacity and the QCed
cars lost about 27% of their capacity.

So yeah - the 2011-2012 LEAFs definitely lose capacity fast,
especially in hot climates. The good news is that frequent QC doesn't
appear to significantly change your rate of capacity loss unless you
use QC nearly exclusively.

-Dave
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Re: [EVDL] J1772 cable splitter charges two 3kW plugins off a L2 6kW EVSE, +

[David Rees via EV]

On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 9:16 AM, Mike Nickerson via EV
ev@lists.evdl.org wrote:
 There is a Chargepoint EVSE that does have two J1772 ports.  Each port can 
 charge at 6 kW if used alone.  If both ports are being used, they get 3 kW 
 each.  Chargepoint calls this charge sharing.  The EVSE is fed with a single 
 40A / 240V line.

 HP in Boise installed two of these early this year.  I would have to look up 
 the model number.

http://www.chargepoint.com/stations/

CT4021 or CT4023. Seems like a no-brainer to install these over the
single plug stations, but Chargepoint does charge a lot for their
hardware.

There is an open source solution, too, called the Hydra. It plugs into
any J1772 EVSE and allows multiple EVSEs to split the available
current.

https://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/Hydra

-Dave
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