Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[tomw via EV]

I suggest you study Mate Rimac's development of a $10^6 sports car:
http://www.rimac-automobili.com/
He started out building series dc powered bmw's for racing (you can find his
build thread on diyelectriccar, circa 2009), then built up his group to
build a 4 AC motor supercar, designing his own motors and drive train. His
only possible market was similar to yours, the super rich.  Iirc he sold a
few cars to oil princes and such, but mostly survived by selling his
technology and consulting with car companies.  No idea how he is doing now. 
You could probably learn a lot from him since he has been down the path you
have selected.  I'd call him up if I were you. He has actually lived it,
unlike anyone on this list including me.

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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Paul Dove via EV]

I've heard good things about this book

http://www.amazon.com/ICE-Free-Electric-technology-converters/dp/0957149506


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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[tomw via EV]

You can't let geography or technology be obstacles if you want to develop the
kind of car you are targeting. It has to be exceptional in performance,
design, quality, and fit and finish. You are competing with the likes of the
i8 and Rimac Automobili. You have to fly to meet the people you need to
meet, and hire the people with the knowledge and skills required from the
world market.  Mate assembled an exceptional team, you will have to do the
same. You will also need to do targeted market research. Travel to talk to
the people you expect to be customers. Talking to people on this list is of
very limited use.  Sure we can try to imagine what might be required, but we
have a completely different approach in our projects and consider many
things inconsequential "frills". We just don't have the same mentality at
all. Know your customer. 

Such an effort will take quite a bit of money - just ask Mate, he spent all
his savings. His obsession and single minded devotion to the effort kept him
going. That's another thing...Mate was driven, you'll need a lot of that.

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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Bill Dube via EV]

Very impressive effort. Looks like they have all their ducks in a row.
Very nice car. Very well thought out design.
I was impressed that he was willing to throw out pretty much the entire 
original design (DC) and start the new design (AC) from a blank sheet of 
paper.
The sign of an excellent engineer and manager. Often we become far too 
emotionally attached to a particular design concept and that becomes a 
black hole.


Bill D.

On 1/16/2016 6:55 AM, tomw via EV wrote:

I suggest you study Mate Rimac's development of a $10^6 sports car:
http://www.rimac-automobili.com/
He started out building series dc powered bmw's for racing (you can find his
build thread on diyelectriccar, circa 2009), then built up his group to
build a 4 AC motor supercar, designing his own motors and drive train. His
only possible market was similar to yours, the super rich.  Iirc he sold a
few cars to oil princes and such, but mostly survived by selling his
technology and consulting with car companies.  No idea how he is doing now.
You could probably learn a lot from him since he has been down the path you
have selected.  I'd call him up if I were you. He has actually lived it,
unlike anyone on this list including me.

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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[via EV]

Just wondering, why do you prefer the imiev? Seems strange to me. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 13, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Willie2 via EV  wrote:
> 
> I should mention that I prefer to drive my imiev over the Tesla when the 
> imiev range allows.  I'm up to 7k miles on the imiev in about a year.
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

>... buying a used Leaf is a great solution...
> ... I have always liked the prospects of truck conversions.

Is that like hacking the rear of the Leaf to add a truck bed?
Or hacking a truck to install the Leaf drive?
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[dovepa via EV]

Watch EVTV it's free. Evtv.me 


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original message 
From: Bobby Keeland via EV  Date: 1/12/2016  8:40 PM 
 (GMT-06:00) To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to 
ev? 
I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost
as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of
my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
vehicle to EV?

Bob Keeland
Forest Dynamics
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[via EV]

Bobby,  Some how I didn't send the photo?  

- Original Message -

From: "Bobby Keeland via EV"  
To: "ev"  
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:40:12 PM 
Subject: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev? 

I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost 
as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of 
my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could 
also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone 
recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE 
vehicle to EV? 

Bob Keeland 
Forest Dynamics 
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Thos True via EV]

Yes I tend to agree that buying a used Leaf is a great solution for most of
us (I did the 3 year lease), it is also a great experience to build your
own project. I have been part of several of these as well over the past 2
decades. I have always liked the prospects of truck conversions. Mostly
because they are more useful, but also because they are already designed
for additional weight. I also think that conversions have that added "cool
factor" when combined with a classic vehicle. (Wouldn't you agree Al?)

-Tom

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:23 AM, via EV  wrote:

> Bobby,  Some how I didn't send the photo?
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Bobby Keeland via EV" 
> To: "ev" 
> Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:40:12 PM
> Subject: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?
>
> I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost
> as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of
> my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
> also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
> recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
> vehicle to EV?
>
> Bob Keeland
> Forest Dynamics
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>
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[via EV]

Good morning Bob.  Well I'm going to just jump right to the point.  Don't.  Go 
down to your nearest Nissan dealer and look at all the Leaf lease returns and 
pick out a beauty.  For probably 10-12K.  You will have a vehicle 5-10 times 
better than the first one you could build. Well maybe.  But it will still be 
cheaper than anything you could build.  Especially if you were to use Lithium.  
My conversion cost twice what my 2013 Leaf cost.  With a warranty, new, with 
great heat and comfort.  

- Original Message -

From: "Bobby Keeland via EV"  
To: "ev"  
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:40:12 PM 
Subject: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev? 

I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost 
as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of 
my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could 
also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone 
recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE 
vehicle to EV? 

Bob Keeland 
Forest Dynamics 
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/13/2016 07:16 AM, via EV wrote:

Good morning Bob.  Well I'm going to just jump right to the point.  Don't.  Go 
down to your nearest Nissan dealer and look at all the Leaf lease returns and 
pick out a beauty.  For probably 10-12K.  You will have a vehicle 5-10 times 
better than the first one you could build. Well maybe.  But it will still be 
cheaper than anything you could build.  Especially if you were to use Lithium.  
My conversion cost twice what my 2013 Leaf cost.  With a warranty, new, with 
great heat and comfort.

Though I wouldn't buy a Nissan, I have to generally agree.  Any factory 
made EV will almost certainly be far cheaper, far more reliable, and 
have far more resale value than a conversion.  The only reason to do a 
conversion is for education.  The most cost effective conversion will be 
the one you bought from someone else at a fire sale price.


Most conversions end up being driven only a few thousand miles.

I paid for my education.  I drove my Hyundai conversion about 50k miles 
at a total cost of about $70k.  It is now worth $3k-$5k.  I've driven my 
Tesla over 70k miles at a total cost of about $90k.  I anticipate 
driving it a total of maybe 150k miles at a total cost of about $100k.  
The Tesla is or will be worth $20k-$40k.  The Hyundai cost well over 
$1/mile with a lot of discomfort, a lot of failures and a lot of pain.  
The Tesla will cost well under $1/mile with few failures and a great 
deal of comfort and joy.


I should mention that I prefer to drive my imiev over the Tesla when the 
imiev range allows.  I'm up to 7k miles on the imiev in about a year.


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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Jay Summet via EV]

With the introduction of multiple good options in the retail market 
(leaf volt, bolt soon, bmw, tesla and other minor players) I agree that 
buying a new or used EV is a much better value proposition than 
converting a car.


The only places where I can see a conversion having value are:

1. To get a type/class of electric vehicle that you can't (easily) 
purchase (such as a truck, bus, etc) [However, some electric 
trucks/buses are being manufactured semi-commercially in low volumes now.


2. To convert a classic/collectors car to EV.

3. If you can buy a conversion used conversion and get a significant 
discount on the cost of the parts.


4. If you just want a cool project to do. (not cost effective, but fun!)


Unfortunately, I haven't seen any "modern" books that give you step by 
step information. There is a lot of stuff out on the Internet of people 
doing various parts themselves and sharing a lot of good information, 
but you kind of have to put it together yourself.


Jay

On 01/13/2016 08:39 AM, Thos True via EV wrote:

Yes I tend to agree that buying a used Leaf is a great solution for most of
us (I did the 3 year lease), it is also a great experience to build your
own project. I have been part of several of these as well over the past 2
decades. I have always liked the prospects of truck conversions. Mostly
because they are more useful, but also because they are already designed
for additional weight. I also think that conversions have that added "cool
factor" when combined with a classic vehicle. (Wouldn't you agree Al?)

-Tom

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:23 AM, via EV  wrote:


Bobby,  Some how I didn't send the photo?

- Original Message -

From: "Bobby Keeland via EV" 
To: "ev" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:40:12 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost
as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of
my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
vehicle to EV?

Bob Keeland
Forest Dynamics
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Willie2 via EV]

On 01/13/2016 08:03 AM, jackinausti...@gmail.com wrote:

Just wondering, why do you prefer the imiev? Seems strange to me.

I have little use for the excessive Tesla performance; it's a thrill but 
not really relevant for day to day transportation.  The imiev is easier 
to get into and out of.  The much smaller imiev is much easier to 
navigate in tight spaces.  The imiev has much more ground clearance; I 
drive it over rough ground where the Tesla can not go. The imiev gives 
the driver a much better view of surrounding conditions.


When driving the imiev, I do miss the superior Tesla instrumentation and 
the Tesla map.


I would LOVE to have a smaller and cheaper EV with Tesla 
instrumentation, 200+ miles of range, AutoPilot,  and SuperCharger access.

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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Mike Nickerson via EV]

I was thinking more along the lines of taking the Leaf parts and rearranging / 
repackaging them into pickup truck usage.  As an example, an AC motor and 
controller from EV sources would be $7K or more.  I've seen a used Tesla motor 
and controller for $5K.  I'm sure a Leaf motor and controller would be less.  
Takes a lot of work figuring out how to get it all to fit, though.

Mike

On January 13, 2016 7:07:37 AM MST, Robert Bruninga via EV  
wrote:
>>... buying a used Leaf is a great solution...
>> ... I have always liked the prospects of truck conversions.
>
>Is that like hacking the rear of the Leaf to add a truck bed?
>Or hacking a truck to install the Leaf drive?
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Thos True via EV]

Hi Bob,

Build you own electric vehicle by Bob Brant. It is available at Amazon and
on Kindle. It gives excellent pointers, even if some of the info is dated.
The beauty of electric vehicles is that typically, each of the basic
components can be changed or updated with little regard to the others
(motor, controller, batteries). Yes, it is wise to do your best to match
these up for maximum benefit, but many of us have gone against that wisdom
and done surprisingly well. It is a fledgling enterprise after all and it
seems that no one knows all.

-Tom

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV 
wrote:

> I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost
> as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of
> my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
> also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
> recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
> vehicle to EV?
>
> Bob Keeland
> Forest Dynamics
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[EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Tue Jan 12 18:40:12 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>In the near term I am considering the conversion of
>my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
>also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
>recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
>vehicle to EV?

I don't know of any books with even semi-recent information.
I got most of my info from this list, and doing trial and error.


--

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[EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't cost
as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the conversion of
my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I could
also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an ICE
vehicle to EV?

Bob Keeland
Forest Dynamics
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Tue Jan 12 21:46:18 PST 2016 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>One, start with goals.  How far do you want to be able to drive?  What
>kind of acceleration?  How steep a hill?  Do you need to tow anything?
>Or carry a heavy load uphill?

Very definitely!

>Then do the math.  There are various acceleration and load tools on the
>Internet that can help you determine how much torque or KW you need to
>meet your goals.  Knowing how many KW your goals require, you can
>multiply that by range to size your battery.  And so on.

My experience with the various estimating tools was that they just are not 
suited for larger vehicles.
They were all WAY WAY off with my truck.


--

Worlds only All Electric F-250 truck! 
http://john.casadelgato.com/Electric-Vehicles/1995-Ford-F-250

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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Peri Hartman via EV]

With the risk of sticking my foot in my mouth, as I have not built my 
own EV, I'd like to make a few suggestions.


One, start with goals.  How far do you want to be able to drive?  What 
kind of acceleration?  How steep a hill?  Do you need to tow anything?  
Or carry a heavy load uphill?


And lesser things: do you need a lot of cabin heat?  defrost?

Then do the math.  There are various acceleration and load tools on the 
Internet that can help you determine how much torque or KW you need to 
meet your goals.  Knowing how many KW your goals require, you can 
multiply that by range to size your battery.  And so on.


With all these numbers you can start looking at components.  The 
priciest ones are going to be the battery, the motor, and the controller 
or inverter.  If these are way out of price range or, for example, you 
the battery will be too heavy for the truck, you may need to compromise 
on some of your goals.  You might decide to keep the clutch and gear box 
rather than replace them with a single gear reduction.  A little less 
efficient but potentially a lot cheaper.


Hopefully, you'll be able to iterate through this process, reducing or 
compromising your goals, until you reach something that is cost 
justifiable.  Otherwise you would just go buy the Tesla :)  I can't 
begin to enumerate all the small components you will need - from charge 
port to an electric pump for the brakes to dashboard meters. Books, the 
EV album, and other people will be your resources.


Good luck !

Peri


-- Original Message --
From: "Thos True via EV" 
To: "Bobby Keeland" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 12-Jan-16 9:17:42 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?


Hi Bob,

Build you own electric vehicle by Bob Brant. It is available at Amazon 
and
on Kindle. It gives excellent pointers, even if some of the info is 
dated.

The beauty of electric vehicles is that typically, each of the basic
components can be changed or updated with little regard to the others
(motor, controller, batteries). Yes, it is wise to do your best to 
match
these up for maximum benefit, but many of us have gone against that 
wisdom
and done surprisingly well. It is a fledgling enterprise after all and 
it

seems that no one knows all.

-Tom

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV 


wrote:

 I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they don't 
cost
 as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the 
conversion of
 my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I 
could

 also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can anyone
 recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting an 
ICE

 vehicle to EV?

 Bob Keeland
 Forest Dynamics
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Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?

[Mike Nickerson via EV]

Bob Brant's book does a good job of helping work through the power and energy 
requirements and lining them up with EV components.  It really does pay to get 
a system and parts that meet your requirements, but without too much extra.  
Otherwise your conversion could cost as much as a Tesla.

The other book I have is called Convert It by Mike Brown.  It is somewhat 
dated, but does a good job of covering some of the"nuts and bolts" of the 
conversion and wiring.

Finally, I think good value can be had from using parts from production EVs 
such as Leaf.  Batteries, motors, and controllers are all available pretty 
cheap.  Of course, getting them to work can be a challenge.

Mike


On January 12, 2016 10:46:18 PM MST, Peri Hartman via EV  
wrote:
>With the risk of sticking my foot in my mouth, as I have not built my 
>own EV, I'd like to make a few suggestions.
>
>One, start with goals.  How far do you want to be able to drive?  What 
>kind of acceleration?  How steep a hill?  Do you need to tow anything? 
>
>Or carry a heavy load uphill?
>
>And lesser things: do you need a lot of cabin heat?  defrost?
>
>Then do the math.  There are various acceleration and load tools on the
>
>Internet that can help you determine how much torque or KW you need to 
>meet your goals.  Knowing how many KW your goals require, you can 
>multiply that by range to size your battery.  And so on.
>
>With all these numbers you can start looking at components.  The 
>priciest ones are going to be the battery, the motor, and the
>controller 
>or inverter.  If these are way out of price range or, for example, you 
>the battery will be too heavy for the truck, you may need to compromise
>
>on some of your goals.  You might decide to keep the clutch and gear
>box 
>rather than replace them with a single gear reduction.  A little less 
>efficient but potentially a lot cheaper.
>
>Hopefully, you'll be able to iterate through this process, reducing or 
>compromising your goals, until you reach something that is cost 
>justifiable.  Otherwise you would just go buy the Tesla :)  I can't 
>begin to enumerate all the small components you will need - from charge
>
>port to an electric pump for the brakes to dashboard meters. Books, the
>
>EV album, and other people will be your resources.
>
>Good luck !
>
>Peri
>
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Thos True via EV" 
>To: "Bobby Keeland" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
>List" 
>Sent: 12-Jan-16 9:17:42 PM
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Books on converting a car to ev?
>
>>Hi Bob,
>>
>>Build you own electric vehicle by Bob Brant. It is available at Amazon
>
>>and
>>on Kindle. It gives excellent pointers, even if some of the info is 
>>dated.
>>The beauty of electric vehicles is that typically, each of the basic
>>components can be changed or updated with little regard to the others
>>(motor, controller, batteries). Yes, it is wise to do your best to 
>>match
>>these up for maximum benefit, but many of us have gone against that 
>>wisdom
>>and done surprisingly well. It is a fledgling enterprise after all and
>
>>it
>>seems that no one knows all.
>>
>>-Tom
>>
>>On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV 
>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>  I plan to buy a new ev when the range is high enough, and they
>don't 
>>>cost
>>>  as much as a Tesla S. In the near term I am considering the 
>>>conversion of
>>>  my 1951 Chevy pickup to ev, probably with it's own solar panels. I 
>>>could
>>>  also charge it from the solar panels that power my house. Can
>anyone
>>>  recommend fairly up-to-date books that are specific to converting
>an 
>>>ICE
>>>  vehicle to EV?
>>>
>>>  Bob Keeland
>>>  Forest Dynamics
>>>  -- next part --
>>>  An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>  URL: <
>>>  
>>>http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160112/af5d4ec8/attachment.htm
>>>  >
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>>>  UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>>>  Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>>>  Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
>>>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Remember, it is not that the glass is half empty, in reality, the
>glass 
>>is
>>merely twice the size that it needs to be! -TNT'82
>>-- next part --
>>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>URL: 
>>
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>>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA 
>>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>
>>
>
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