Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

[Roland via EV]

I use a use a heavy duty high charge alternator at idle which for me is 300 rpm 
at the electric motor to 1200 rpm at the alternator. Use a 4:1 cog pulley and 
belt drive.  The alternator needs at least 1100 rpm to excite the fields to 
come on.  These are sometimes known as inverter-alternators or converter 
alternators that are use in ambulances, utility trucks and motor homes that 
uses 120 vac 60 hz up to 6 kw from these units.  

It has external taps that have NEG FIELD,  POSITIVE FIELD, and TRIO.  To 
generate 120 vac 60 hz up to 5 kw there is a inverter made by the Dynamote 
Corporation that connects to these external taps.  It can generate 6 kw and at 
the same time can supply a current for 13.5 to 15 vdc charging using  external 
adjustments.

Or you can just generate 110 vdc only that will start to generate at about 30 
volts at 300 rpm and rises to 110 volts at 1100 rpm.  You can let it idle down 
to 300 rpm which will still maintain 110 vdc at a maximum 1200 watts.  

Connect a 100 ohm 200 watt potentiometer across the positive field terminal and 
trio terminal and you can adjust the voltage from 30 to 110 vdc.  This output 
voltage is ok for resistance loads like heaters which I may connect up three 
small heaters up to 1000 watts.  

I later add a inverter unit that is rated at 5kw at 120 vac true sine 60 hz.

There are other ways you can convert a standard alternator by using a 
alternator converter kit or go on line to see how you can make and install 
these components.  Just type in your search engine - Convert a Alternator for 
110 vdc to 120 vac - 

Roland   
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jan Steinman via EV<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> 
  To: ev@lists.evdl.org<mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org> ; 
ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org<mailto:ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org> 
  Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 4:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)


  > From: Lee Hart via EV mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>>
  > 
  > An easy way to get modest "engine braking" style regen is to add a 
  > second small generator, optimized for regen. This can be as simple as 
  > rewinding the stock ICE alternator to work as a high voltage generator.

  I have a friend who owns a motor service/rewinding shop. He says it would be 
cost-prohibative to do so, if you had to pay someone to do it.

  I think all modern alternators are three-phase "Y" configuration, which is a 
bummer. A delta-configuration might be simple to get triple the voltage out of.

  Has anyone had one of these things apart to see how hard they'd be to boost 
voltage on?

  > Use the field to control the voltage and current it generates, as usual. 
  > With the field off, the alternator just freewheels. With the field on, 
  > it generates.

  Simplest case, run the field on your brake light switch, possibly with the 
help of a relay.

  I saw one scheme where someone added an electric clutch, as used by air 
conditioners. But is that really necessary, given Lee's assertion that the 
field-less alternator has very little drag?

  > Though automotive alternator efficiency is low, they are capable 
  > generating amazingly large amounts of power for short time periods (like 
  > regen).

  I have a Nevile-Leece 2kW alternator that came off a fire truck, and am 
planning to use that for regen braking.

   We don't have an energy crisis; we have a consumption crisis. -- Ozzie 
Zehner
   Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

[Lee Hart via EV]

From: Lee Hart via EV 
>When you increase the voltage, you reduce the current proportionately.
>I.e. a 12v 100amp alternator becomes a 120v 10amp alternator. Rather
>than use the special oddball automotive diode packages, just bring out
>the 3 phase wires, and use an external bridge rectifier. It's easy to
>get a 600v 120amp 3-phase bridge rectifier.


Oops; that last line should be "get a 600v 12amp 3-phase bridge rectifier.

--
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

[Lee Hart via EV]

Jan Steinman via EV wrote:

I have a friend who owns a motor service/rewinding shop. He says it
would be cost-prohibative to do so, if you had to pay someone to do
it.


I'm sure that would be the case. If shop time is $100/hour and it took 4
hours, the rewind would cost $400. Nobody will pay that when they can
get a rebuilt one from Mexico for $150.

But, it's not all that hard. You have to cut off the old windings, which
are glued in place. Take *good* notes on exactly how it is wired!

If you're going to increase its voltage from 12v to 120v, then each coil
needs 10x the number of turns of wire 1/10th the cross sectional area.
Thick wire is hard to wind; but small wire is much easier.

The basic technique is to make a wooden jig that looks like the stator
iron but "laid out flat" like this:

 _|-|_|-|_|-|_|-|_|-|_

Each of the wood "posts" is exactly the size of the iron teeth of the
rotor. You wind the requisite number of turns around each wood post. As
I recall, you'll have N turns around a post, then skip 2 posts, then N
turns around the 4th post, then skip 2 posts, etc.

Once wound, you tie each coil's turns together with string. Then slide
them off the wooden jig.

Cut pieces of insulating paper to slide into the teeth in the rotor.
They don't do this on car alternators, as they're only running at 12v.
But you'll need this extra insulation for a higher-voltage alternator.
It also keeps the steel from nicking the insulation during assembly.

Now wiggle the coils into the slots between the teeth of the stator.
Often, the entire bundle of turns won't fit in as a single group -- you
have to wiggle it in, a few turns at a time.

When they are all in, wedge them in with a wood or insulating paper shim
(so they don't escape while you are crowding the next coil's wire into
its slot).

All three phase windings are done the same way. You'll find that more
than one set of coils goes in each slot. If this is the first motor
you've ever rewound, it will help to deliberately use one size smaller
wire, just to make things easier. This will slightly reduce the maximum
current you can get.

Once you have all the windings in, you can glue them in place with high
temperature varnish or epoxy.

You'll want to replace the diodes. The stock diodes *might* survive at
100v or more; but they were chosen to be cheap, and only tested to 12v.
Use diodes rated for at least double your new maximum output voltage.

When you increase the voltage, you reduce the current proportionately.
I.e. a 12v 100amp alternator becomes a 120v 10amp alternator. Rather
than use the special oddball automotive diode packages, just bring out
the 3 phase wires, and use an external bridge rectifier. It's easy to
get a 600v 120amp 3-phase bridge rectifier.


I think all modern alternators are three-phase "Y" configuration,
which is a bummer. A delta-configuration might be simple to get
triple the voltage out of.


This is done on purpose. One reason is that wye gives you 1.7 times more
voltage for the same number of turns (so fewer turns are needed).

Another reason is that the sloppy construction of car alternators means
the voltages on the coils are not all that well balanced. In a delta,
the voltages *must* add up to exactly zero or you get circulating
currents around the ring (extra heat, low efficiency).


Use the field to control the voltage and current it generates, as
usual. With the field off, the alternator just freewheels. With the
field on, it generates.



Simplest case, run the field on your brake light switch, possibly
with the help of a relay.


That can work. But remember, the field current needs to change depending
on the RPM. The easiest way to control it is to keep the stock 12v
voltage regulator, but use it to sense some fraction of the new
alternator voltage. For example, if you have a 120v pack, then use a
10:1 resistor divide that tells the regulator the pack is at "12v" when 
it is really at 120v. Power the field and regulator with a small DC/DC 
converter (like a 90-264 vac/vdc "universal input" laptop supply with a 
12v 1 amp output.



I saw one scheme where someone added an electric clutch, as used by
air conditioners. But is that really necessary, given Lee's assertion
that the field-less alternator has very little drag?


Try it; you'll find that an alternator "free wheels" very easily with no 
field current. The belt will waste a lot more power than freewheeling 
the alternator.


If you're going to have an electric clutch, it would be better to have 
it on the motor, and not the alternator. That way, when the clutch is 
off, you aren't running the belt, with all its losses.



I have a Nevile-Leece 2kW alternator that came off a fire truck, and
am planning to use that for regen braking.


Truck and bus alternators are decidedly more efficient (70-80%) than run
of the mill auto alternators (which are around 60% efficient).

--
If you're not stubborn, you'll give up on experiments too soon.
And if you're not flexible, y

Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

[Jan Steinman via EV]

> From: Lee Hart via EV 
> 
> An easy way to get modest "engine braking" style regen is to add a 
> second small generator, optimized for regen. This can be as simple as 
> rewinding the stock ICE alternator to work as a high voltage generator.

I have a friend who owns a motor service/rewinding shop. He says it would be 
cost-prohibative to do so, if you had to pay someone to do it.

I think all modern alternators are three-phase "Y" configuration, which is a 
bummer. A delta-configuration might be simple to get triple the voltage out of.

Has anyone had one of these things apart to see how hard they'd be to boost 
voltage on?

> Use the field to control the voltage and current it generates, as usual. 
> With the field off, the alternator just freewheels. With the field on, 
> it generates.

Simplest case, run the field on your brake light switch, possibly with the help 
of a relay.

I saw one scheme where someone added an electric clutch, as used by air 
conditioners. But is that really necessary, given Lee's assertion that the 
field-less alternator has very little drag?

> Though automotive alternator efficiency is low, they are capable 
> generating amazingly large amounts of power for short time periods (like 
> regen).

I have a Nevile-Leece 2kW alternator that came off a fire truck, and am 
planning to use that for regen braking.

 We don't have an energy crisis; we have a consumption crisis. -- Ozzie 
Zehner
 Jan Steinman, EcoReality Co-op 

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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

[Lee Hart via EV]

Ben Goren via EV wrote:

once I started driving it, I realized I hardly ever used the
brakes... the amount from regen is not worth it (I am going on the
assumption that regen in DC traction motors causes undue arcing of
the commutator...)


A DC motor needs to be designed with regen in mind. The optimum brush
position to minimize arcing *changes* at different currents. Changing
from motoring to generating reverses the current, which is a very large
change indeed!

Standard DC traction motors have their brushes positioned for pure
motoring operation -- not regen. To use it for both motoring and
generating, the brushes need to be in a compromise position that reduces
(but does not minimize) arcing for both types of operation. This is
acceptable at lower voltages, and when you aren't using it to its
maximum current capability.

100 years ago, motors had adjustable brush rigging, so you could change
it while the motor was running to suit the mode of operation.

50 years ago, they added interpoles to DC motors. These a small
compensating windings, which automatically cancel out the brush position
differences between motoring and generating.

But since these added cost, these options have been left out of almost
all modern motors. :-(


I'm still anticipating regen as being very helpful in my wacky hybrid
Mustang... what I'm *really* looking to use it for is to maintain a
minimum charge in the batteries in hybrid mode.


An easy way to get modest "engine braking" style regen is to add a 
second small generator, optimized for regen. This can be as simple as 
rewinding the stock ICE alternator to work as a high voltage generator.


Use the field to control the voltage and current it generates, as usual. 
With the field off, the alternator just freewheels. With the field on, 
it generates.


Though automotive alternator efficiency is low, they are capable 
generating amazingly large amounts of power for short time periods (like 
regen).

--
The principal defect in a storage battery is its modesty. It does not
spark, creak, groan, nor slow down under overload. It does not rotate.
It works where it is, and will silently work up to the point of
destruction without making any audible or visible signs of distress.
-- Electrical Review, 1902
--
Lee Hart's EV projects are at http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[ph...@bill-collins.net via EV]

Thanks for all the advice.  I'll probably keep the DC system since selling it
for a good price seems unlikely.

I appreciate hearing the different viewpoints, it's given me a lot to think
about.

Bill
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[Rick Beebe via EV]

I have a Ford C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid and a Smart ED both of which 
are AC with regen. Regen on the Smart is more aggressive meaning you 
really can do one-foot driving. Once I got used to it I found I like it 
and, of course, you can still find that spot on the pedal that allows 
coasting. The Ford basically puts regen on the brake pedal (a minor 
amount of "engine braking" on the throttle) which is also fine and makes 
me feel a little safer because I know the brake lights are on when I'm 
slowing down.


I also have a Ford Ranger with a series DC motor that was converted in 
2007. I am just finishing up re-converting it to use lithium cells. In 
fact it had its first lithium-powered drive on Sunday. It's MUCH more 
spritely with 1300 pounds of batteries removed!


If the budget had allowed, I would have converted the truck to AC as 
well. I just find regen makes driving more pleasurable. It's fairly 
hilly around here including one short but very steep hill on the route 
between my house and Home Depot (obviously a common trip!). I look 
forward to driving down those hills in the C-Max and Smart because it's 
free power back in the tank. It's somewhat terrifying in the truck 
because it all depends on the brakes.


My motor (ADC) and controller (DCP Raptor) wouldn't have much resale 
value so I decided to live with them. The Zilla and Warp 9 are still 
being sold so I bet you could get quite a bit of your investment back. 
New, the pair is about $3700. For a Cabrio I personally would look at 
the HPEVS AC-50 or AC-51 for about $4500 (144volts. $3700 at 108volts).


But, if the money doesn't stretch you're certainly not doing anything 
wrong by using what you have. It will probably be faster off the line 
and maybe faster overall.


--Rick


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of
ph...@bill-collins.net via EV
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 3:59 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Conversion advice


A few years ago I decided to convert my '98 VW Cabrio to electric.  At
the time,
a Warp 9 motor and Zilla 1K controller seemed to make a lot of sense,
and are
probably one of the best combinations today for a DC conversion.
Since I've now put 90k miles on the car as an ICE (after buying it
cheaply
because the previous owner thought it needed an engine) and a few years
have
gone by, I'm wondering if a DC conversion still makes sense.

I know Curtis makes an AC kit that's designed for similar applications
as the 9
inch DC motors.  Any opinions on it, or other AC options?
Any idea of the resale value of an unused Zilla 1K LV and Warp 9 motor?

At least lithium batteries are a lot cheaper than when I first thought
about
doing this!

Bill

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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[Cor van de Water via EV]

The Warp 9 and Zilla 1k are still very respectable choices
in terms of moving a lighter vehicle such as a VW Cabrio around.
It is your money and your project of course, so you should indeed
weigh the options before starting, but if it were my own then I
would be planning to get an adaptor plate for that Warp and find out
which Lithium batteries would work best for the range and power
and Voltage that the Cabrio can use with the Zilla 1k LV.

Success!

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com
Email: cwa...@proxim.com Private: http://www.cvandewater.info
Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of
ph...@bill-collins.net via EV
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 3:59 PM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] Conversion advice


A few years ago I decided to convert my '98 VW Cabrio to electric.  At
the time,
a Warp 9 motor and Zilla 1K controller seemed to make a lot of sense,
and are
probably one of the best combinations today for a DC conversion.
Since I've now put 90k miles on the car as an ICE (after buying it
cheaply
because the previous owner thought it needed an engine) and a few years
have
gone by, I'm wondering if a DC conversion still makes sense.

I know Curtis makes an AC kit that's designed for similar applications
as the 9
inch DC motors.  Any opinions on it, or other AC options?
Any idea of the resale value of an unused Zilla 1K LV and Warp 9 motor?

At least lithium batteries are a lot cheaper than when I first thought
about
doing this!

Bill
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

[Michael Ross via EV]

On the human powered side of EVs regen gets the same reaction - it isn't
worth the cost and complexity.  Mostly, because you are naturally trying to
minimize acceleration.   It is stopping faster and then speeding back up
that saps your strength and endurance.  On a really good ride you would
never use your brakes.

I think this is an interesting analog for automotive EVs - if you are
concerned with cost, want to limit complexity, and seek to be efficient
just the same, then it is largely sovled by driving habits.


On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> I would tend to agree with you.  There was a discussion a while back (a
> year?) about how much regen gives back.  I think the number, for my kind of
> driving, was around 5% - for a pure EV.  In your case, since the electric
> motor will be used primarily for acceleration - both from a stop and up
> inclines - you may find that the amount of time spent in regen versus accel
> approaches 50-50.  That might give you a payback of 30-40%.  Just a bunch
> of guesses, so if you care, do some math :)
>
> Peri
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Ben Goren via EV" 
> To: "Robert Bruninga" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
> List" 
> Sent: 11-Aug-14 12:59:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)
>
>  On Aug 11, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
>> wrote:
>>
>>   As for regen, the efficiency improvement you get over DC will vary...
>>>>  Typically the improvement is small, because you just don't spend
>>>>  that much time braking. ... Learn to make use of coasting and
>>>>  you can probably match the range improvement of regen.
>>>>
>>>
>>>  Amen. With my CITY car I agonized over all kinds of designs for Regen
>>> but
>>>  once I started driving it, I realized I hardly ever used the brakes.
>>>  (somewhat due to them being old and worn out in the first place)... but
>>>  still, after also driving a Prius and similarly avoiding brakes or
>>> regen,
>>>  the amount from regen is not worth it (I am going on the assumption that
>>>  regen in DC traction motors causes undue arcing of the comutator...)
>>>
>>
>> I already drive like that, too...but I'm still anticipating regen as
>> being very helpful in my wacky hybrid Mustang. Sure, if it marginally
>> improves efficiency by recovering a bit from deceleration, that's
>> great...but what I'm *really* looking to use it for is to maintain a
>> minimum charge in the batteries in hybrid mode. That will let me use the
>> electric motors primarily for acceleration even after the end of the hybrid
>> mode driving range. And, since the electric motors are much more efficient
>> at accelerating than the ICE, the minimal parasitic drag to just barely
>> keep a bit of usable charge in the batteries should still balance things in
>> the favor of both economy and performance.
>>
>> For a pure BEV conversion, I don't think I'd care all that much either
>> way about regen.
>>
>> b&
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happiness, or should I help others gain happiness?
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Tell me what it is you plan to do
With your one wild and precious life?
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Amen. 

Sometimes there's a tendency to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, as 
the saying goes goes.

Lots of great things happen from the accumulation of lots of good things. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:58 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 10 Aug 2014 at 17:13, Cruisin via EV wrote:
>> 
>> The old fork lift and golf cart die hard's have bit the dust after
>> promoting their state of the art and cost saving ideas. And all of
>> those that downplayed the J1772 upgrade, have now sent their projects
>> to the junk yards, but they saved a buck. It is like everything else,
>> if you cant do it right, don't do it.
> 
> It's ironic that this message crossed the list just a few hours after 
> Bruce's thoughtful celebration of EV hobbyist Robert Lange's creative 
> recycling.
> 
> The EVDL is here for all kinds of EV lovers.  We're here for folks who build 
> gorgeous high-end, high-dollar beauties, and those who scrounge parts from 
> forklifts and golfcars and junkyards.  BTW, these latter have NOT "bit the 
> dust," nor are they likely to any time soon.
> 
> We're here for people who would almost rather work on their EVs than drive 
> them, and for those who just want to unplug and go.
> 
> There's something to be proud of in EVERY EV.  Don't let anybody take that 
> away from you.
> 
> "If you can't do it right, don't do it" is NOT the motto of the EVDL, or of 
> the majority of our subscribers.  Actually, we don't HAVE a motto.  But 
> maybe we should, maybe something like "Just do it."
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I would tend to agree with you.  There was a discussion a while back (a 
year?) about how much regen gives back.  I think the number, for my kind 
of driving, was around 5% - for a pure EV.  In your case, since the 
electric motor will be used primarily for acceleration - both from a 
stop and up inclines - you may find that the amount of time spent in 
regen versus accel approaches 50-50.  That might give you a payback of 
30-40%.  Just a bunch of guesses, so if you care, do some math :)


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Ben Goren via EV" 
To: "Robert Bruninga" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 11-Aug-14 12:59:19 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

On Aug 11, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
 wrote:


 As for regen, the efficiency improvement you get over DC will 
vary...

 Typically the improvement is small, because you just don't spend
 that much time braking. ... Learn to make use of coasting and
 you can probably match the range improvement of regen.


 Amen. With my CITY car I agonized over all kinds of designs for Regen 
but

 once I started driving it, I realized I hardly ever used the brakes.
 (somewhat due to them being old and worn out in the first place)... 
but
 still, after also driving a Prius and similarly avoiding brakes or 
regen,
 the amount from regen is not worth it (I am going on the assumption 
that

 regen in DC traction motors causes undue arcing of the comutator...)


I already drive like that, too...but I'm still anticipating regen as 
being very helpful in my wacky hybrid Mustang. Sure, if it marginally 
improves efficiency by recovering a bit from deceleration, that's 
great...but what I'm *really* looking to use it for is to maintain a 
minimum charge in the batteries in hybrid mode. That will let me use 
the electric motors primarily for acceleration even after the end of 
the hybrid mode driving range. And, since the electric motors are much 
more efficient at accelerating than the ICE, the minimal parasitic drag 
to just barely keep a bit of usable charge in the batteries should 
still balance things in the favor of both economy and performance.


For a pure BEV conversion, I don't think I'd care all that much either 
way about regen.


b&
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 11 Aug 2014 at 14:00, Chris Tromley via EV wrote:

> As for regen, the efficiency improvement you get over DC will vary with the
> kind of terrain you're in.  Typically the improvement is small, because you
> just don't spend that much time braking.

The rule of thumb is that if you live in a hilly area, regen is worth having 
(and it can help extend brake life).  If your region is mostly flat, maybe 
not.

That said, I just like having it, regardless of the terrain.  With properly 
configured regen you can almost have a one-pedal car, needing the brakes 
only for the last few feet of a stop, and to hold the car while waiting for 
the light.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

[Ben Goren via EV]

On Aug 11, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV  wrote:

>> As for regen, the efficiency improvement you get over DC will vary...
>> Typically the improvement is small, because you just don't spend
>> that much time braking.  ... Learn to make use of coasting and
>> you can probably match the range improvement of regen.
> 
> Amen.  With my CITY car I agonized over all kinds of designs for Regen but
> once I started driving it, I realized I hardly ever used the brakes.
> (somewhat due to them being old and worn out in the first place)... but
> still, after also driving a Prius and similarly avoiding brakes or regen,
> the amount from regen is not worth it (I am going on the assumption that
> regen in DC traction motors causes undue arcing of the comutator...)

I already drive like that, too...but I'm still anticipating regen as being very 
helpful in my wacky hybrid Mustang. Sure, if it marginally improves efficiency 
by recovering a bit from deceleration, that's great...but what I'm *really* 
looking to use it for is to maintain a minimum charge in the batteries in 
hybrid mode. That will let me use the electric motors primarily for 
acceleration even after the end of the hybrid mode driving range. And, since 
the electric motors are much more efficient at accelerating than the ICE, the 
minimal parasitic drag to just barely keep a bit of usable charge in the 
batteries should still balance things in the favor of both economy and 
performance.

For a pure BEV conversion, I don't think I'd care all that much either way 
about regen.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice (regen)

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

> As for regen, the efficiency improvement you get over DC will vary...
> Typically the improvement is small, because you just don't spend
>  that much time braking.  ... Learn to make use of coasting and
> you can probably match the range improvement of regen.

Amen.  With my CITY car I agonized over all kinds of designs for Regen but
once I started driving it, I realized I hardly ever used the brakes.
(somewhat due to them being old and worn out in the first place)... but
still, after also driving a Prius and similarly avoiding brakes or regen,
the amount from regen is not worth it (I am going on the assumption that
regen in DC traction motors causes undue arcing of the comutator...)

Bob
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[Chris Tromley via EV]

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 6:58 PM, ph...@bill-collins.net via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

>
> A few years ago I decided to convert my '98 VW Cabrio to electric.  At the
> time,
> a Warp 9 motor and Zilla 1K controller seemed to make a lot of sense, and
> are
> probably one of the best combinations today for a DC conversion.
> Since I've now put 90k miles on the car as an ICE (after buying it cheaply
> because the previous owner thought it needed an engine) and a few years
> have
> gone by, I'm wondering if a DC conversion still makes sense.
>
> I know Curtis makes an AC kit that's designed for similar applications as
> the 9
> inch DC motors.  Any opinions on it, or other AC options?
> Any idea of the resale value of an unused Zilla 1K LV and Warp 9 motor?
>
> At least lithium batteries are a lot cheaper than when I first thought
> about
> doing this!
>
> Bill


​In your position I think I'd be inclined to stick with the DC system you
have.  (I have no AC experience to compare with.)  I do like the idea of
complete silence and the regen braking you get with AC.  But the noise from
DC brushes​ is minor.  And you will have WAY more torque available from
rest with the Z1k.

As for regen, the efficiency improvement you get over DC will vary with the
kind of terrain you're in.  Typically the improvement is small, because you
just don't spend that much time braking.  What many people miss though, is
that coasting without regen can be its own efficiency improvement.  Learn
to make use of coasting and you can probably match the range improvement of
regen.

It's kind of like riding two-stroke vs. four-stroke motorcycles.
 Two-strokes have very little compression braking.  They require a
different technique.  Not difficult, just different.

Chris
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[Ben Goren via EV]

On Aug 10, 2014, at 8:58 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
wrote:

> The EVDL is here for all kinds of EV lovers.

Amen!

What's exciting about EVs is that we're finally at the point that you can buy a 
good one from a dealer, or that you can take pretty much any car on the road 
plus a check for ~$20,000 to a qualified mechanic and a short while later 
electrically drive the car home.

But even the ICE car world is still filled with people experimenting with all 
sorts of wacky sh...er, stuff, in their back yards and spare time. Why should 
the electric world abandon that?

As I see it, you can't go worng with either NetGain or HPEVS right now, but 
each has advantages over the other. NetGain offers more flexibility with 
respect to controllers and power supplies and the like and will surely dominate 
the racing world for quite some time. HPEVS offers a more novice-friendly 
polished plug-n-play package that already has all the features the general 
public is typically most interested in.

I'll very likely be going with AC-51s for my own conversion, but if somebody 
gave me a pair of WarP 9s to use instead I'd be most grateful and happy to use 
them.

Cheers,

b&
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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Sun Aug 10 17:13:02 PDT 2014 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Going the DC route doesn't make sense anymore with a AC motor and controller
>for $2500.00. Add to it with a 18kw li-ion battery pack for $4000, and you
>have a major beginning of a conversion. The old fork lift and golf cart die
>hard's have bit the dust after promoting their state of the art and cost
>saving ideas. And all of those that downplayed the J1772 upgrade, have now
>sent their projects to the junk yards, but they saved a buck. It is like
>everything else, if you cant do it right, don't do it.

So, there is a AC drive system that can dish out 200HP for accelerating?  For 
less than the cost of a new Tesla Model S?

My Z2K and Dual Impulse 9's, with a LiIon battery pack does just fine.  (and I 
have a 50A capable J1772 inlet, and station.)
12KW fast charging is nice.


--

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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 10 Aug 2014 at 17:13, Cruisin via EV wrote:

> The old fork lift and golf cart die hard's have bit the dust after
> promoting their state of the art and cost saving ideas. And all of
> those that downplayed the J1772 upgrade, have now sent their projects
> to the junk yards, but they saved a buck. It is like everything else,
> if you cant do it right, don't do it. 

It's ironic that this message crossed the list just a few hours after 
Bruce's thoughtful celebration of EV hobbyist Robert Lange's creative 
recycling.

The EVDL is here for all kinds of EV lovers.  We're here for folks who build 
gorgeous high-end, high-dollar beauties, and those who scrounge parts from 
forklifts and golfcars and junkyards.  BTW, these latter have NOT "bit the 
dust," nor are they likely to any time soon.

We're here for people who would almost rather work on their EVs than drive 
them, and for those who just want to unplug and go.

There's something to be proud of in EVERY EV.  Don't let anybody take that 
away from you.

"If you can't do it right, don't do it" is NOT the motto of the EVDL, or of 
the majority of our subscribers.  Actually, we don't HAVE a motto.  But 
maybe we should, maybe something like "Just do it."

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] Conversion advice

[Cruisin via EV]

Going the DC route doesn't make sense anymore with a AC motor and controller
for $2500.00. Add to it with a 18kw li-ion battery pack for $4000, and you
have a major beginning of a conversion. The old fork lift and golf cart die
hard's have bit the dust after promoting their state of the art and cost
saving ideas. And all of those that downplayed the J1772 upgrade, have now
sent their projects to the junk yards, but they saved a buck. It is like
everything else, if you cant do it right, don't do it.



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[EVDL] Conversion advice

[ph...@bill-collins.net via EV]

A few years ago I decided to convert my '98 VW Cabrio to electric.  At the time,
a Warp 9 motor and Zilla 1K controller seemed to make a lot of sense, and are
probably one of the best combinations today for a DC conversion.
Since I've now put 90k miles on the car as an ICE (after buying it cheaply
because the previous owner thought it needed an engine) and a few years have
gone by, I'm wondering if a DC conversion still makes sense.

I know Curtis makes an AC kit that's designed for similar applications as the 9
inch DC motors.  Any opinions on it, or other AC options?
Any idea of the resale value of an unused Zilla 1K LV and Warp 9 motor?

At least lithium batteries are a lot cheaper than when I first thought about
doing this!

Bill
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