Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Ron Solberg via EV]

 Quoting EVDL Administrator via EV :

I quit posting  on  the EVDL list sometime ago when I understood my  
work with ClipperCreek CS 100 units to charge Tesla Model  S cars here  
in Hills, MN, did not fit the rules.


Being born in 1941, I too have concerns about the downside of Tesla  
"ownership', but I bought a Model 3 since I can write it off with my  
business and I can charge it off my tracking solar PV system. I am  
equally concerned about the planned obsolescence engineered into  
modern ICE cars and the cost and availability of parts and mechanics  
in the future, Therefore, I also drive a 1929 Model A Ford tudor. I am  
not a mechanic, but I can fix it, I own it, it s basic and parts are  
readily available. Five million were made so old and new parts are  
available.


 


On 7 Oct 2018 at 14:01, George E Swartz via EV wrote:


I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.


Well, one reason is something that a lot of Tesla owners seem to like.  The
car's too connected for my taste.  It creeps me out every time I read of a
Tesla wreck and some Tesla employee tells the news reporter the next day
that the driver had autopilot on, or had his hands off the wheel, or
whatever.

Privacy is already hard enough to maintain these days.  I don't really want
Elon Musk or one of his minions as my copilot.  (I wouldn't buy an "On Star"
car, either.)

Another is that Tesla is a corporate control freak.  You don't own their
cars, you pay for the right to use them unless or until they decide to
disable or hobble them.

See our recent discussion:

http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4691207

Or read Otmar Ebenhoech thinks of Tesla's owner support policies.

https://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/

Finally, I'm also pretty annoyed that they supposedly introduced an
"affordable" EV, but they still refuse to sell it without a bunch of ups and
extras that make it UNaffordable.  Screw that.

And then there's Musk himself.  Need I say more?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Paul Dove via EV]

Don’t kid yourself lots of cars already have many of the features. GPS 
tracking, drive recorders, remote shutoff etc. 

As far as fixing salvaged vehicles well, it’s slightly different than a 
gasoline vehicle in determining if it’s safe for the road.
It’s understandable that they would want to inspect it but in the end they will 
probably loose that fight.  

As far as cost. my friend at work just bought a pickup truck with all the 
bells and whistles and paid $46,000 for it  cars with lots of options and in 
the luxury class are not cheap. A model 3 competes with BMW and Mercedes not 
with the leaf. 

Heck the navigation system is the best I have ever seen in any vehicle. He 
outsold all the luxury cars on the market combined.


Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 8, 2018, at 12:32 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 7 Oct 2018 at 14:01, George E Swartz via EV wrote:
>> 
>> I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.
> 
> Well, one reason is something that a lot of Tesla owners seem to like.  The 
> car's too connected for my taste.  It creeps me out every time I read of a 
> Tesla wreck and some Tesla employee tells the news reporter the next day 
> that the driver had autopilot on, or had his hands off the wheel, or 
> whatever. 
> 
> Privacy is already hard enough to maintain these days.  I don't really want 
> Elon Musk or one of his minions as my copilot.  (I wouldn't buy an "On Star" 
> car, either.)
> 
> Another is that Tesla is a corporate control freak.  You don't own their 
> cars, you pay for the right to use them unless or until they decide to 
> disable or hobble them.
> 
> See our recent discussion: 
> 
> http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4691207
> 
> Or read Otmar Ebenhoech thinks of Tesla's owner support policies.
> 
> https://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/
> 
> Finally, I'm also pretty annoyed that they supposedly introduced an 
> "affordable" EV, but they still refuse to sell it without a bunch of ups and 
> extras that make it UNaffordable.  Screw that.
> 
> And then there's Musk himself.  Need I say more?
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Yeah, I get most of that.

When the roadster came out, he promised his “affordable” car within a few 
years. I expected about $30-35k. But it is what it is.

As far as the electronics, I think that you’re seeing the future. Both my Mirai 
and Clarity collect tons of data, though there is nothing (that I know of) for 
disabling by the manufacturer. I think he future is going to be all about 
collecting that data. 

Unfortunately, if you follow what’s happened to computers and internet access, 
EVERYTHING is about collecting that data (and selling it!) for “a better 
customer experience.” I still fight it, and avoid giving anyone but me control 
over my data, but I’m starting to think that resistance is futile, to quote a 
great philosopher.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 7, 2018, at 10:32 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 7 Oct 2018 at 14:01, George E Swartz via EV wrote:
>> 
>> I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.
> 
> Well, one reason is something that a lot of Tesla owners seem to like.  The 
> car's too connected for my taste.  It creeps me out every time I read of a 
> Tesla wreck and some Tesla employee tells the news reporter the next day 
> that the driver had autopilot on, or had his hands off the wheel, or 
> whatever. 
> 
> Privacy is already hard enough to maintain these days.  I don't really want 
> Elon Musk or one of his minions as my copilot.  (I wouldn't buy an "On Star" 
> car, either.)
> 
> Another is that Tesla is a corporate control freak.  You don't own their 
> cars, you pay for the right to use them unless or until they decide to 
> disable or hobble them.
> 
> See our recent discussion: 
> 
> http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4691207
> 
> Or read Otmar Ebenhoech thinks of Tesla's owner support policies.
> 
> https://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/
> 
> Finally, I'm also pretty annoyed that they supposedly introduced an 
> "affordable" EV, but they still refuse to sell it without a bunch of ups and 
> extras that make it UNaffordable.  Screw that.
> 
> And then there's Musk himself.  Need I say more?
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 7 Oct 2018 at 14:01, George E Swartz via EV wrote:

> I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.

Well, one reason is something that a lot of Tesla owners seem to like.  The 
car's too connected for my taste.  It creeps me out every time I read of a 
Tesla wreck and some Tesla employee tells the news reporter the next day 
that the driver had autopilot on, or had his hands off the wheel, or 
whatever. 

Privacy is already hard enough to maintain these days.  I don't really want 
Elon Musk or one of his minions as my copilot.  (I wouldn't buy an "On Star" 
car, either.)

Another is that Tesla is a corporate control freak.  You don't own their 
cars, you pay for the right to use them unless or until they decide to 
disable or hobble them.

See our recent discussion: 

http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4691207

Or read Otmar Ebenhoech thinks of Tesla's owner support policies.

https://cafeelectric.com/stretchla/

Finally, I'm also pretty annoyed that they supposedly introduced an 
"affordable" EV, but they still refuse to sell it without a bunch of ups and 
extras that make it UNaffordable.  Screw that.

And then there's Musk himself.  Need I say more?

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

If cost is the only thing stopping you, I would seriously try running the 
numbers, and be sure that you take into accounts any tax credits, local or 
state rebates, and regional trade-in programs. Not to mention, if you don’t 
already have an EV, monthly fuel savings. And consider a lease (if Tesla offers 
them).



Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 7, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Bobby Keeland via EV  wrote:
> 
> Why not buy a Tesla? I wondered the same thing. Of course they are very
> expensive. Even the $35,000 "affordable" Model costs more than $35,000 so
> far. I'm still waiting.
> BobK
> 
> On Sun, Oct 7, 2018, 4:01 PM George E Swartz via EV 
> wrote:
> 
>> David,
>> 
>> I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.
>> 
>> George Swartz
>> 
>> 
>> 
 On 6 Oct 2018 at 7:04, Paul Dove via EV wrote:
 
 My model 3 was only $46,000 I wonder where he,s getting his information
>>> 
>>> Is yours the "performance edition"?  That seems to be what he was
>> testing.
>>> 
>>> He mentions that the cheapest currently available model is $49k, which is
>>> not that far from the price you quote.
>>> 
>>> That's still WAY over my budget.  But then I can't see myself buying any
>>> Tesla ever, regardless of the price.
>>> 
>>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
>>> EVDL Administrator
>>> 
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>>> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Bobby Keeland via EV]

Why not buy a Tesla? I wondered the same thing. Of course they are very
expensive. Even the $35,000 "affordable" Model costs more than $35,000 so
far. I'm still waiting.
BobK

On Sun, Oct 7, 2018, 4:01 PM George E Swartz via EV 
wrote:

> David,
>
> I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.
>
> George Swartz
>
>
>
> > On 6 Oct 2018 at 7:04, Paul Dove via EV wrote:
> >
> >> My model 3 was only $46,000 I wonder where he,s getting his information
> >
> > Is yours the "performance edition"?  That seems to be what he was
> testing.
> >
> > He mentions that the cheapest currently available model is $49k, which is
> > not that far from the price you quote.
> >
> > That's still WAY over my budget.  But then I can't see myself buying any
> > Tesla ever, regardless of the price.
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EVDL Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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> > reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> > email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
> >
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> >
>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[George E Swartz via EV]

David,

I am curious, what are the main reasons you would not buy a Tesla.

George Swartz



> On 6 Oct 2018 at 7:04, Paul Dove via EV wrote:
>
>> My model 3 was only $46,000 I wonder where he,s getting his information
>
> Is yours the "performance edition"?  That seems to be what he was testing.
>
> He mentions that the cheapest currently available model is $49k, which is
> not that far from the price you quote.
>
> That's still WAY over my budget.  But then I can't see myself buying any
> Tesla ever, regardless of the price.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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>
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[paul dove via EV]

3,000 is a lot to me! They can be purchased for less than 46000 depending upon 
the options chosen. My point was that at least one fact was wrong calling into 
question everything he said.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 6, 2018, at 11:03 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 6 Oct 2018 at 7:04, Paul Dove via EV wrote:
>> 
>> My model 3 was only $46,000 I wonder where he,s getting his information
> 
> Is yours the "performance edition"?  That seems to be what he was testing.
> 
> He mentions that the cheapest currently available model is $49k, which is 
> not that far from the price you quote.
> 
> That's still WAY over my budget.  But then I can't see myself buying any 
> Tesla ever, regardless of the price.  
> 
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
> 
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 6 Oct 2018 at 7:04, Paul Dove via EV wrote:

> My model 3 was only $46,000 I wonder where he,s getting his information

Is yours the "performance edition"?  That seems to be what he was testing.

He mentions that the cheapest currently available model is $49k, which is 
not that far from the price you quote.

That's still WAY over my budget.  But then I can't see myself buying any 
Tesla ever, regardless of the price.  

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[Paul Dove via EV]

My model 3 was only $46,000 I wonder where he,s getting his information

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 6, 2018, at 12:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a23085684/review-tesla-model-3-performance/
> My 72 Hours With the Tesla Model 3 Performance Edition
> Sep 13, 2018  Alexander George
> 
> [image  / James Lipman
> https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/model-3-performance-red-rear-motion-1536692069.jpg
> 
> https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/screen-shot-2018-09-11-at-1-51-29-pm-1536691768.png
> Me on the TV  / Fox 5 New York
> 
> https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/model-3-performance-dual-motor-badge-1536692311.jpg
> The Performance is the Dual Motor Model 3, plus 104 horsepower  / James
> Lipman
> 
> https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/cms-model-3-interior-dashboard-head-on-1536698853.jpg
> The Model 3’s tablet dash is uncluttered brilliance  / Alexis Georgeson
> 
> https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/img-1328-1536700535.jpg
>  / Alexander George
> ]
> 
> Three days with the souped-up, extra-fast, $64,000 version of the Model 3.
> 
> A few weeks ago, when I went on local TV to chauffeur a news anchor who
> didn’t have a license and explain why the Tesla Model 3 won our magazine’s
> Car of the Year award, I screwed up in two ways.
> 
> First, I failed to say “Popular Mechanics” on air, which I’m told I should
> do whenever possible. Second, I talked about the car like a car salesman on
> his first day. Without much criticism I rattled off all the stuff it could
> do, the way its price would influence the electric vehicle market, and how
> it made me a better person for having driven it.
> 
> Had I really become a Tesla loyalist? To find out, I spend a few days behind
> the wheel of the Model 3 Performance Edition to find out what a little extra
> oomph can do for Elon Musk's "entry-level" electric car.
> 
> The Rundown
> 
> First, an abridged explanation of why the Tesla Model 3, the car on which
> the Performance is based, is exceptional:
> 
> Price: As of early September, you cannot purchase the $35,000 base Model 3.
> It’s a bummer because that number means entry into electric transportation
> for so many people. Until that car arrives, the least expensive Model 3 you
> can buy costs $49,000 and comes stock with a 310-mile Long Range Battery and
> a Premium Interior that includes wood accents, heated seats, power front
> seats, bigger sound system, glass roof, fog lamps, and Tesla's awesome
> synthetic leather seats.
> 
> Fun: Model 3s have a double-wishbone front suspension and multilink rear
> suspension. It’s the same setup found on other fast sedans like the Porsche
> Panamera. In practice, that means you can mash a Model 3’s right pedal on an
> on-ramp and the car stays level through the turn.
> 
> Like a Panamera, hard cornering in this thing makes you giggle because
> you’re confident the car will go where you’re pointing it. Also: you can
> also move the car with just your phone. Useful? Nah. Cool? Very.
> 
> User Experience: Talking vehicle dynamics isn’t quite my thing, but I do
> know a lot about product design and user interfaces. On that front, the
> Model 3 is hard to criticize. Because the car unlocks when your phone get
> close enough, there’s no key fob to lose. Because there’s no engine in
> front, the lower windshield lets you see more. And that center-mounted
> tablet means fewer glowing numbers distracting you from the road.
> 
> After driving a Model 3, every other car’s console feels like a misuse of
> wires and visual real estate.
> 
> Luxury: Like the Chevy Bolt or even a first-gen Nissan Leaf, electric cars
> are as smooth and quiet as a Rolls Royce.
> 
> Range: 200-plus miles for $35k is the new standard for mass market electric
> vehicles. Whenever Tesla actually starts selling the base Model 3, at least.
> 
> Performance Perfection
> 
> My ride for the next 72 hours is even nice. The ultra-luxe Performance
> variant, at $64,000, adds the kind of stuff that will appeal to anyone who'd
> chose a BMW M3 or M4 over the 3-Series. Meaning, it's a car with enough
> space to be your only vehicle, but will reward you for finding good back
> roads.
> 
> A second motor for the front wheels adds power, and takes it from rear- to
> all-wheel drive. Upgraded inverters deliver power to both motors more
> efficiently than the regular Model 3, Tesla says. Lower suspension makes it
> more aerodynamic and reduces body roll. New software developed in-house
> (rather than from a supplier, like on other Teslas) helps everything talk to
> each other, both for safety and towards the goal of going faster.
> 
>After driving a Model 3, every other car’s console feels like a misuse
> of wires and visual real estate.
> 
> All of that noticeably drops the zero-to-60 time from 5 seconds to 3.5
> seconds. Or, 

[EVDL] EVLN: popularmechanics.com reviews $64k Tesla-3p EV

[brucedp5 via EV]

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a23085684/review-tesla-model-3-performance/
My 72 Hours With the Tesla Model 3 Performance Edition
Sep 13, 2018  Alexander George

[image  / James Lipman
https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/model-3-performance-red-rear-motion-1536692069.jpg

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/screen-shot-2018-09-11-at-1-51-29-pm-1536691768.png
Me on the TV  / Fox 5 New York  

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/model-3-performance-dual-motor-badge-1536692311.jpg
The Performance is the Dual Motor Model 3, plus 104 horsepower  / James
Lipman

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/cms-model-3-interior-dashboard-head-on-1536698853.jpg
The Model 3’s tablet dash is uncluttered brilliance  / Alexis Georgeson 

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/img-1328-1536700535.jpg
  / Alexander George
]

Three days with the souped-up, extra-fast, $64,000 version of the Model 3.  

A few weeks ago, when I went on local TV to chauffeur a news anchor who
didn’t have a license and explain why the Tesla Model 3 won our magazine’s
Car of the Year award, I screwed up in two ways.

First, I failed to say “Popular Mechanics” on air, which I’m told I should
do whenever possible. Second, I talked about the car like a car salesman on
his first day. Without much criticism I rattled off all the stuff it could
do, the way its price would influence the electric vehicle market, and how
it made me a better person for having driven it.

Had I really become a Tesla loyalist? To find out, I spend a few days behind
the wheel of the Model 3 Performance Edition to find out what a little extra
oomph can do for Elon Musk's "entry-level" electric car.

The Rundown

First, an abridged explanation of why the Tesla Model 3, the car on which
the Performance is based, is exceptional:

Price: As of early September, you cannot purchase the $35,000 base Model 3.
It’s a bummer because that number means entry into electric transportation
for so many people. Until that car arrives, the least expensive Model 3 you
can buy costs $49,000 and comes stock with a 310-mile Long Range Battery and
a Premium Interior that includes wood accents, heated seats, power front
seats, bigger sound system, glass roof, fog lamps, and Tesla's awesome
synthetic leather seats.

Fun: Model 3s have a double-wishbone front suspension and multilink rear
suspension. It’s the same setup found on other fast sedans like the Porsche
Panamera. In practice, that means you can mash a Model 3’s right pedal on an
on-ramp and the car stays level through the turn.

Like a Panamera, hard cornering in this thing makes you giggle because
you’re confident the car will go where you’re pointing it. Also: you can
also move the car with just your phone. Useful? Nah. Cool? Very.

User Experience: Talking vehicle dynamics isn’t quite my thing, but I do
know a lot about product design and user interfaces. On that front, the
Model 3 is hard to criticize. Because the car unlocks when your phone get
close enough, there’s no key fob to lose. Because there’s no engine in
front, the lower windshield lets you see more. And that center-mounted
tablet means fewer glowing numbers distracting you from the road.

After driving a Model 3, every other car’s console feels like a misuse of
wires and visual real estate.

Luxury: Like the Chevy Bolt or even a first-gen Nissan Leaf, electric cars
are as smooth and quiet as a Rolls Royce.

Range: 200-plus miles for $35k is the new standard for mass market electric
vehicles. Whenever Tesla actually starts selling the base Model 3, at least.

Performance Perfection

My ride for the next 72 hours is even nice. The ultra-luxe Performance
variant, at $64,000, adds the kind of stuff that will appeal to anyone who'd
chose a BMW M3 or M4 over the 3-Series. Meaning, it's a car with enough
space to be your only vehicle, but will reward you for finding good back
roads.

A second motor for the front wheels adds power, and takes it from rear- to
all-wheel drive. Upgraded inverters deliver power to both motors more
efficiently than the regular Model 3, Tesla says. Lower suspension makes it
more aerodynamic and reduces body roll. New software developed in-house
(rather than from a supplier, like on other Teslas) helps everything talk to
each other, both for safety and towards the goal of going faster.

After driving a Model 3, every other car’s console feels like a misuse
of wires and visual real estate.

All of that noticeably drops the zero-to-60 time from 5 seconds to 3.5
seconds. Or, just 0.1 seconds slower than a McLaren F1. That means a lot.
CEO Elon Musk told Joe Rogan that a Tesla is a tool for fun. After driving
one, it’s hard to disagree.

Going that fast with electricity is different from using a V12. Having the
battery weight low means the car stays level without requiring a punishingly
stiff suspension. Without