Re: [EVDL] Spanish EV charging (was J1772 might not go to a low level ...)
I found it was worth it putting in a 240v EVSE mostly for the weekends. 120v was fine on weekdays. Drive to work and back, maybe a short errand, plug it in over night and repeat. But weekends I often make lots of medium trips and it wasn't charging enough in the in-between times. I never ran out but it got closer than I liked a few times. But I was able to install each EVSE for only about $600 so the convience far outweighed the economic impact for me (I have 3 EVSE's for 2 1/2 electric cars right now) --Rick On 12/26/2016 1:47 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: From: Jay Summet via EV Speaking as somebody who has charged at 1.4 kW for over a year and a half, L1 charging can meet almost all of your needs as long as you plug in whenever you are parked. That's been my experience as well. We've had a 2013 Leaf for 2 years now, and almost always charge on 120vac. I think I can count the number of times I've used 240vac charging on my fingers. -- Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James -- Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Spanish EV charging (was J1772 might not go to a low level ...)
From: Jay Summet via EV >Speaking as somebody who has charged at 1.4 kW for over a year and a >half, L1 charging can meet almost all of your needs as long as you plug >in whenever you are parked. That's been my experience as well. We've had a 2013 Leaf for 2 years now, and almost always charge on 120vac. I think I can count the number of times I've used 240vac charging on my fingers. -- Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James -- Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Spanish EV charging (was J1772 might not go to a low level...)
David, This sounds familiar in a way. The practice in The Netherlands is that your monthly fixed "meter charge" is dependent on the "strength" of the connection, even though every home is already has wiring to the 3-phase grid with plenty fat connections, a home is typically wired with a few 16A breakers all feeding off a single 25A main fuse (which is not customer accessible, since this is what determines your connection strength). Houses alternate in to which phase they are connected. There are two common "upgrade" paths, one is to simply request a higher Amperage fuse, for example upgrade from 25 to 35A main fuse, so your connection goes from 25 x 230V = 5750W to 35 x 230V = 8050W. The other path which is used in case you have electric cooking or a shop with power tools, is to request 3-phase connection, which requires the utility to swap the 1-phase meter for a 3-phase one and to insert 3 fuses into the 3 connections from the street - you will also have to divide the existing circuits over the 3 phases and run a (new) circuit to the kitchen or shop with the 3 phases. Most common is to have 3x 25A which gives you a total connected power of about 17kW. Only for "all electric" homes would you consider an even higher connected power, when the home has a heatpump for heating (and cooling, but almost no home in The Netherlands has Airco) as well as for hot water, cooking and EV charging. Such a connection (3x 35A or more) can easily be as expensive as the monthly consumption. It is mostly intended for business use. So, it was very surprising to come to USA and find out that the minimum connection for a home is 24kW and for any newer home 48kW or more. Hope this gives some perspective. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via EV Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2016 4:15 PM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: [EVDL] Spanish EV charging (was J1772 might not go to a low level...) On 25 Dec 2016 at 14:56, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > ... the 2011/2012 Leaf ... is specifically aimed at the European situation > where most plugs and circuits are rated and fused to 230V 16A which > means a max 3.7kW so a 3.3kW charger maxes out a standard wall plug in > Europe ... This reminds me of something I was reading recently that gave me pause. In Spain, domestic electricity is demand-rated. That is, the higher the possible household demand, the more you pay per kWh. Demand is determined by the conductors feeding your house and by your main breaker. The source I was reading said that to keep the rates low, many Spanish homes have a total capacity of just 3.3kW! (Compare that with the US, where most new homes now have 96kW service, and some huge ones have double that.) The usual increment for requesting increased capacity from the power authority is 1.1kW. You'd have to upgrade a 3.3kW home to at least 4.4kW and more likely 6.6kW to even charge your older Leaf at home, never mind a newer one with a faster charger. And then you'd be paying more for ALL your electricity, not just that used to charge your EV. Combine that with the fact that off-street parking is less common in European cities, and you have some obstacles to EV uptake, at least in Spain. I guess that means that paid-by-the-session commercial charging would be much more important there. Maybe one of our Spanish members has some thoughts on this. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Spanish EV charging (was J1772 might not go to a low level ...)
On 12/25/2016 07:14 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 25 Dec 2016 at 14:56, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: The source I was reading said that to keep the rates low, many Spanish homes have a total capacity of just 3.3kW! ( You'd have to upgrade a 3.3kW home to at least 4.4kW and more likely 6.6kW to even charge your older Leaf at home, never mind a newer one with a faster charger. If you stuck with the L1 charger that comes with the Leaf it only draws 2.88 kW at 240 volts. This will fully charge a Leaf overnight (22 kWh in 8 hours) Speaking as somebody who has charged at 1.4 kW for over a year and a half, L1 charging can meet almost all of your needs as long as you plug in whenever you are parked. Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Spanish EV charging (was J1772 might not go to a low level ...)
On 25 Dec 2016 at 14:56, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > ... the 2011/2012 Leaf ... is specifically aimed at the European situation > where most plugs and circuits are rated and fused to 230V 16A which > means a max 3.7kW so a 3.3kW charger maxes out a standard wall plug in > Europe ... This reminds me of something I was reading recently that gave me pause. In Spain, domestic electricity is demand-rated. That is, the higher the possible household demand, the more you pay per kWh. Demand is determined by the conductors feeding your house and by your main breaker. The source I was reading said that to keep the rates low, many Spanish homes have a total capacity of just 3.3kW! (Compare that with the US, where most new homes now have 96kW service, and some huge ones have double that.) The usual increment for requesting increased capacity from the power authority is 1.1kW. You'd have to upgrade a 3.3kW home to at least 4.4kW and more likely 6.6kW to even charge your older Leaf at home, never mind a newer one with a faster charger. And then you'd be paying more for ALL your electricity, not just that used to charge your EV. Combine that with the fact that off-street parking is less common in European cities, and you have some obstacles to EV uptake, at least in Spain. I guess that means that paid-by-the-session commercial charging would be much more important there. Maybe one of our Spanish members has some thoughts on this. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
