Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 9/14/19 5:32 PM, Dan Baker via EV wrote:

Those high wattage 12v inverters certainly push the limits for something to
melt. A 2 KW model would need 150+ amps to run, certainly no cigarette
lighter socket could provide.  According to my blue sea circuit app, even a
short 3ft cable to the battery should have a 3/0 gauge size!


Also keep in mind the size of cable going from the 12v OEM battery to 
the OEM's DC2DC converter!  Some of them may not be planning on charging 
the battery at 150 amps ;>


I think a 1500 watt inverter with a continuous load of no more than 1000 
watts would be relatively safe. I've certainly heard of people doing 
that with both the Leaf and Volt.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits? (And Data point)

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Its a 2 kW converter and it is assumed the car draws 500W.  So the answer
is around 1500W continuous, thought you can draw many kW for brief periods
if your wires and your inverter can handle it.

DATA POINT:  At an EV demo yesterday I ran a demo yesterdy of 40 light
bulbs to simulate a house, (only 300W)  in 5 hours, I used about 10 miles
range which is about right.

Bob

On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 8:55 PM moskowitz via EV  wrote:

> Thanks! Nice to know.
>
>
> Do you have any idea how much wattage you can draw from the 12 V battery
> without causing it to exceed the DC-DC charge rate and be fully discharged?
>
>
>
> Len
>
>
> -
>
> > On September 13, 2019 at 9:49 PM Cor van de Water <
> cor.vandewa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Len,
> >
> > The Lead acid battery is charged using the DC-DC converter from the
> main traction pack, so it is the same (you can actually disconnect the 12V
> battery as soon as you have started the car and don’t do anything to cause
> a load dump or turn the car off).
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[moskowitz via EV]

Thanks! Nice to know.


Do you have any idea how much wattage you can draw from the 12 V battery 
without causing it to exceed the DC-DC charge rate and be fully discharged?



Len


-

> On September 13, 2019 at 9:49 PM Cor van de Water  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Len,
> 
> The Lead acid battery is charged using the DC-DC converter from the main 
> traction pack, so it is the same (you can actually disconnect the 12V battery 
> as soon as you have started the car and don’t do anything to cause a load 
> dump or turn the car off).
> 
>  
> 
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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Dan Baker via EV]

Those high wattage 12v inverters certainly push the limits for something to
melt. A 2 KW model would need 150+ amps to run, certainly no cigarette
lighter socket could provide.  According to my blue sea circuit app, even a
short 3ft cable to the battery should have a 3/0 gauge size!

On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 11:34 AM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Or, more technically, "melts".
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Peri Hartman via EV" 
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
> Sent: 14-Sep-19 7:28:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?
>
> >Like I said, "something" will burn :)
> >
> >-- Original Message --
> >From: "Cor van de Water" 
> >To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion
> List" 
> >Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
> >Sent: 13-Sep-19 6:45:38 PM
> >Subject: RE: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?
> >
> >>That is why the “cigarette lighter plug” is typically protected by a 10,
> 15 or 20 Amp fuse. Check your car manual.
> >>
> >>Cor.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>From: Peri Hartman via EV <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>
> >>Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 12:15 PM
> >>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>
> >>Cc: Peri Hartman <mailto:pe...@kotatko.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>I think accessory jacks are limited to 10 or 20 amps. You'll burn
> >>
> >>something :)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>-- Original Message --
> >>
> >>From: "moskowitz via EV" 
> >>
> >>To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> >>
> >>Cc: "moskowitz" 
> >>
> >>Sent: 13-Sep-19 12:08:12 PM
> >>
> >>Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >This brings up a question about V2H with a Chevy Volt.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >In the Canadian article, he hooked up directly to the 12V lead-acid
> battery that's under the hatch-area floor.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >An alternative would be the accessory jack in the front-center arm
> rest.
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >Is the accessory jack fed by a DC-to-DC converter and running off the
> main traction pack, or is it fed from the 12V lead-acid battery?
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >Len Moskowitz
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >-
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >> >>  I intended to reply to this earlier.  I'm experimenting with V2H
> using
> >>
> >> >>  EV batteries through the 12v DC-DC.  My perception is that all EV
> DC-DCs
> >>
> >> >>  will do at least 1kw.  Jack Rickard is selling one (Volt?) that is
> said
> >>
> >> >>  to do 2kw.  Once I get some 12vdc grid tie micro inverters in hand,
> I
> >>
> >> >>  will be better able to report on both imievs and Model 3s.  I have
> so
> >>
> >> >>  far failed to operate MPPT micro inverters using a 12v to ~30v
> boost.
> >>
> >> >___
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> >>
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> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Or, more technically, "melts".

-- Original Message --
From: "Peri Hartman via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
Sent: 14-Sep-19 7:28:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?


Like I said, "something" will burn :)

-- Original Message --
From: "Cor van de Water" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 

Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
Sent: 13-Sep-19 6:45:38 PM
Subject: RE: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?


That is why the “cigarette lighter plug” is typically protected by a 10, 15 or 
20 Amp fuse. Check your car manual.

Cor.



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



From: Peri Hartman via EV <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 12:15 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc: Peri Hartman <mailto:pe...@kotatko.com>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?



I think accessory jacks are limited to 10 or 20 amps. You'll burn

something :)



-- Original Message --

From: "moskowitz via EV" 

To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 

Cc: "moskowitz" 

Sent: 13-Sep-19 12:08:12 PM

Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?



>This brings up a question about V2H with a Chevy Volt.

>

>In the Canadian article, he hooked up directly to the 12V lead-acid battery 
that's under the hatch-area floor.

>

>An alternative would be the accessory jack in the front-center arm rest.

>

>Is the accessory jack fed by a DC-to-DC converter and running off the main 
traction pack, or is it fed from the 12V lead-acid battery?

>

>

>Len Moskowitz

>

>-

>

>>  I intended to reply to this earlier.  I'm experimenting with V2H using

>>  EV batteries through the 12v DC-DC.  My perception is that all EV DC-DCs

>>  will do at least 1kw.  Jack Rickard is selling one (Volt?) that is said

>>  to do 2kw.  Once I get some 12vdc grid tie micro inverters in hand, I

>>  will be better able to report on both imievs and Model 3s.  I have so

>>  far failed to operate MPPT micro inverters using a 12v to ~30v boost.

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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Like I said, "something" will burn :)

-- Original Message --
From: "Cor van de Water" 
To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Cc: "Peri Hartman" 
Sent: 13-Sep-19 6:45:38 PM
Subject: RE: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

That is why the “cigarette lighter plug” is typically protected by a 
10, 15 or 20 Amp fuse. Check your car manual.


Cor.



Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
Windows 10




From: Peri Hartman via EV <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 12:15 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <mailto:ev@lists.evdl.org>
Cc: Peri Hartman <mailto:pe...@kotatko.com>
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?



I think accessory jacks are limited to 10 or 20 amps. You'll burn

something :)



-- Original Message --

From: "moskowitz via EV" 

To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 

Cc: "moskowitz" 

Sent: 13-Sep-19 12:08:12 PM

Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?



>This brings up a question about V2H with a Chevy Volt.

>

>In the Canadian article, he hooked up directly to the 12V lead-acid 
battery that's under the hatch-area floor.


>

>An alternative would be the accessory jack in the front-center arm 
rest.


>

>Is the accessory jack fed by a DC-to-DC converter and running off the 
main traction pack, or is it fed from the 12V lead-acid battery?


>

>

>Len Moskowitz

>

>-

>

>>  I intended to reply to this earlier.  I'm experimenting with V2H 
using


>>  EV batteries through the 12v DC-DC.  My perception is that all EV 
DC-DCs


>>  will do at least 1kw.  Jack Rickard is selling one (Volt?) that is 
said


>>  to do 2kw.  Once I get some 12vdc grid tie micro inverters in hand, 
I


>>  will be better able to report on both imievs and Model 3s.  I have 
so


>>  far failed to operate MPPT micro inverters using a 12v to ~30v 
boost.


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(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)


>



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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Len,
The Lead acid battery is charged using the DC-DC converter from the main 
traction pack, so it is the same (you can actually disconnect the 12V battery 
as soon as you have started the car and don’t do anything to cause a load dump 
or turn the car off).

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: moskowitz via EV
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 12:08 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: moskowitz
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

This brings up a question about V2H with a Chevy Volt.

In the Canadian article, he hooked up directly to the 12V lead-acid battery 
that's under the hatch-area floor. 

An alternative would be the accessory jack in the front-center arm rest.

Is the accessory jack fed by a DC-to-DC converter and running off the main 
traction pack, or is it fed from the 12V lead-acid battery?


Len Moskowitz

-

> I intended to reply to this earlier.  I'm experimenting with V2H using 
> EV batteries through the 12v DC-DC.  My perception is that all EV DC-DCs 
> will do at least 1kw.  Jack Rickard is selling one (Volt?) that is said 
> to do 2kw.  Once I get some 12vdc grid tie micro inverters in hand, I 
> will be better able to report on both imievs and Model 3s.  I have so 
> far failed to operate MPPT micro inverters using a 12v to ~30v boost.
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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

That is why the “cigarette lighter plug” is typically protected by a 10, 15 or 
20 Amp fuse. Check your car manual.
Cor.

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Peri Hartman via EV
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 12:15 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Cc: Peri Hartman
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

I think accessory jacks are limited to 10 or 20 amps. You'll burn 
something :)

-- Original Message --
From: "moskowitz via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "moskowitz" 
Sent: 13-Sep-19 12:08:12 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

>This brings up a question about V2H with a Chevy Volt.
>
>In the Canadian article, he hooked up directly to the 12V lead-acid battery 
>that's under the hatch-area floor.
>
>An alternative would be the accessory jack in the front-center arm rest.
>
>Is the accessory jack fed by a DC-to-DC converter and running off the main 
>traction pack, or is it fed from the 12V lead-acid battery?
>
>
>Len Moskowitz
>
>-
>
>>  I intended to reply to this earlier.  I'm experimenting with V2H using
>>  EV batteries through the 12v DC-DC.  My perception is that all EV DC-DCs
>>  will do at least 1kw.  Jack Rickard is selling one (Volt?) that is said
>>  to do 2kw.  Once I get some 12vdc grid tie micro inverters in hand, I
>>  will be better able to report on both imievs and Model 3s.  I have so
>>  far failed to operate MPPT micro inverters using a 12v to ~30v boost.
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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I think accessory jacks are limited to 10 or 20 amps. You'll burn 
something :)


-- Original Message --
From: "moskowitz via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "moskowitz" 
Sent: 13-Sep-19 12:08:12 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?


This brings up a question about V2H with a Chevy Volt.

In the Canadian article, he hooked up directly to the 12V lead-acid battery 
that's under the hatch-area floor.

An alternative would be the accessory jack in the front-center arm rest.

Is the accessory jack fed by a DC-to-DC converter and running off the main 
traction pack, or is it fed from the 12V lead-acid battery?


Len Moskowitz

-


 I intended to reply to this earlier.  I'm experimenting with V2H using
 EV batteries through the 12v DC-DC.  My perception is that all EV DC-DCs
 will do at least 1kw.  Jack Rickard is selling one (Volt?) that is said
 to do 2kw.  Once I get some 12vdc grid tie micro inverters in hand, I
 will be better able to report on both imievs and Model 3s.  I have so
 far failed to operate MPPT micro inverters using a 12v to ~30v boost.

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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[moskowitz via EV]

This brings up a question about V2H with a Chevy Volt.

In the Canadian article, he hooked up directly to the 12V lead-acid battery 
that's under the hatch-area floor. 

An alternative would be the accessory jack in the front-center arm rest.

Is the accessory jack fed by a DC-to-DC converter and running off the main 
traction pack, or is it fed from the 12V lead-acid battery?


Len Moskowitz

-

> I intended to reply to this earlier.  I'm experimenting with V2H using 
> EV batteries through the 12v DC-DC.  My perception is that all EV DC-DCs 
> will do at least 1kw.  Jack Rickard is selling one (Volt?) that is said 
> to do 2kw.  Once I get some 12vdc grid tie micro inverters in hand, I 
> will be better able to report on both imievs and Model 3s.  I have so 
> far failed to operate MPPT micro inverters using a 12v to ~30v boost.
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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

It is rated at 2 kW.  But someone said the system draws 1000W just sitting
there.
But I don't believe that.  I think it might be more like 500W leaving you
with 1500?
Bob, Wb4APR

-Original Message-
From: EV  On Behalf Of moskowitz via EV
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 7:57 PM
To: EVDL 
Cc: moskowitz 
Subject: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

Anyone know how much power you can draw from the Volt's 12V starter
battery without exceeding what the on-board charger can continuously
replenish?


Len Moskowitz
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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Willie via EV]

On 9/13/19 9:22 AM, Dan Baker via EV wrote:

I am unsure of the true spec, would love to know too but it should be able
to handle up to a 2KW invertor.  It has to support all the 12v vehicle
electronics and accessories -  coolant pumps, interior fan, headlights,
interior/exterior lighting, stereo, window defroster, windows etc.  I guess
a wise decision is not to use or minimize any vehicle power accessories,
don't remote start it (could activate a bunch of 12v systems
simultaneously) with a big load attached to the inverter.  Obviously as
well I wouldn't push 2kw continuous through the inverter (spikes ok) for
fear of overheating something.Many advertised 2kw inverters are only
rated to handle that load intermittently, treat them like EV motors, peak
vs continuous loads.

On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 8:57 PM moskowitz via EV  wrote:


Anyone know how much power you can draw from the Volt's 12V starter
battery without exceeding what the on-board charger can continuously
replenish?


I intended to reply to this earlier.  I'm experimenting with V2H using 
EV batteries through the 12v DC-DC.  My perception is that all EV DC-DCs 
will do at least 1kw.  Jack Rickard is selling one (Volt?) that is said 
to do 2kw.  Once I get some 12vdc grid tie micro inverters in hand, I 
will be better able to report on both imievs and Model 3s.  I have so 
far failed to operate MPPT micro inverters using a 12v to ~30v boost.


I was thinking I would try to do a system that would pull about 1kw from 
any EV's 12v.  I've had success pulling near 1kw from 36v batteries and 
supplying MPPT micro inverters.  That pointed up the need for bigger 
wire.  It would be difficult hook up wire big enough to pull over 1kw at 
12v.  ~80 amps.  My intentions have been to use wire no bigger than 8ga. 
 I've scaled back my ambitions.  I am now shooting for about 500w out 
of an EV's 12v.


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Re: [EVDL] 2014 Chevy Volt V2H Power Draw Limits?

[Dan Baker via EV]

I am unsure of the true spec, would love to know too but it should be able
to handle up to a 2KW invertor.  It has to support all the 12v vehicle
electronics and accessories -  coolant pumps, interior fan, headlights,
interior/exterior lighting, stereo, window defroster, windows etc.  I guess
a wise decision is not to use or minimize any vehicle power accessories,
don't remote start it (could activate a bunch of 12v systems
simultaneously) with a big load attached to the inverter.  Obviously as
well I wouldn't push 2kw continuous through the inverter (spikes ok) for
fear of overheating something.Many advertised 2kw inverters are only
rated to handle that load intermittently, treat them like EV motors, peak
vs continuous loads.

On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 8:57 PM moskowitz via EV  wrote:

> Anyone know how much power you can draw from the Volt's 12V starter
> battery without exceeding what the on-board charger can continuously
> replenish?
>
>
> Len Moskowitz
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