Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
On 11/06/2014 09:57 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: On Nov 6, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Alan Brinkman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: How about a used Volt? Or a used Leaf and a low cost beater ICE as a backup? Or a used Smart electric car with a used ICE beater? All suggestions I made. I have a Ford C-Max plug-in hybrid that I like a lot. Less EV range than the Volt--about 25 miles--but it's generally enough for me. It's considerably less expensive than the Volt and carries a lot more. --Rick ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
On Nov 6, 2014, at 6:53 AM, Robert Bruninga bruni...@usna.edu wrote: That's a no brainer. Get a Volt! First thing I suggested to him. It's out of his price range...he's looking for under $20K if possible -- thus, he's holding out (for now) for another year or so until a certain 2013 model year Honda something-or-other he has his eye on is in that price range. That's why I'm hoping the rapid evolution of EVs is rapid enough for him...with the Golf and BMW coming out now and Tesla making all sorts of noises about econoboxes and all sorts of Asian and European vehicles coming out all the time...well, with luck, when he's ready to start thinking about opening his wallet, maybe by then there'll be used Volts in his price range, or a new all-electric something with just barely enough extra range plus rapid charging, or some other variation on that theme...or maybe I'll ask him just how many times in the last year he actually _has_ driven over 100 miles at a time. Main thing, the seed's been planted. Might not get anything out of it, but at least it's not entirely out of the question. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141106/31ebd73b/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
That's a no brainer. Get a Volt! original email - I have a friend who's contemplating buying a new car. I was able to get him to seriously consider an EV, but he says there're enough times he needs more than 100 miles range for some random emergency that he can't consider one, though I'm sure it'd otherwise be ideal for him and his commute. He's put off the decision for another year until a certain 2013 model something-or-other he has his eye on drops enough in price. By then I should have my PHEV conversion of the Mustang done...maybe between that and new EV models released soon I'll persuade him to the dark side. Another factor is that the used EV market isn't very mature, and there's still lots of questions about the remaining life of older EV batteries. Once that settles, I think we'll see an upswing in used EV sales that'll translate into more demand for new and old EVs both. And, whatever else I think of Tesla Motor Company and what they do to what're otherwise damned impressive cars, I can't deny being very excited about what they're doing for the battery market. I'm going to face some tough choices when it comes to batteries, knowing that there's going to be so much rapid evolution on that front. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141105/542115 fd/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
On Nov 6, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Alan Brinkman via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: How about a used Volt? Or a used Leaf and a low cost beater ICE as a backup? Or a used Smart electric car with a used ICE beater? All suggestions I made. He's nervous about the quality of used batteries, even though I tried to explain to him that they're getting real-world lifetimes comparable with automatic transmissions. Sure, you might buy an used EV with batteries that die a year or three later -- but you could just as easily buy an ICE with a transmission that dies a year or three later, too. His wife has a sales-type job that has her putting too many miles on the road for possibly even a Tesla, so they'll always have a backup. But he's also worried about the might-never-actually-happen instance where he himself might have to bounce all over the place for some random confluence of family emergencies that he doesn't learn about until after he's already at work. The Volt really would be perfect for him. I'm hoping that either they're in his price range when he decides he's ready to buy (at least another year) or that something else similar enough is on the market or horizon. At the least, I take solace in the fact that Volt-style hybrids are likely to soon dominate the already-dominant hybrid market. And, frankly, if all today's hybrid models were replaced with plugin models with 20 - 40 miles of range, that'd pretty much end our private transportation energy crisis. The transition from such a state of affairs to an all-electric one would be natural and easy but much less urgent. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141106/9458ae07/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
On Nov 1, 2014, at 3:54 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: This is my observation about countering anti-EV rhetoric. If you find things are different where you are, I'd like to hear about it! I don't seem to run into a lot of anti-EV rhetoric outside of the types of Internet trolls who'll troll anything. My biggest personal complaints with EVs are ones that apply to most new cars, but seemingly especially Teslas: the computerization is turning them into appliances that somebody else controls and you yourself never really own. I have a friend who's contemplating buying a new car. I was able to get him to seriously consider an EV, but he says there're enough times he needs more than 100 miles range for some random emergency that he can't consider one, though I'm sure it'd otherwise be ideal for him and his commute. He's put off the decision for another year until a certain 2013 model something-or-other he has his eye on drops enough in price. By then I should have my PHEV conversion of the Mustang done...maybe between that and new EV models released soon I'll persuade him to the dark side. Another factor is that the used EV market isn't very mature, and there's still lots of questions about the remaining life of older EV batteries. Once that settles, I think we'll see an upswing in used EV sales that'll translate into more demand for new and old EVs both. And, whatever else I think of Tesla Motor Company and what they do to what're otherwise damned impressive cars, I can't deny being very excited about what they're doing for the battery market. I'm going to face some tough choices when it comes to batteries, knowing that there's going to be so much rapid evolution on that front. b -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141105/542115fd/attachment.pgp ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
This is my observation about countering anti-EV rhetoric. If you find things are different where you are, I'd like to hear about it! Maybe 15-20 years ago, when I talked to people about EVs, most didn't know much about them. When I explained the state of the art (then), the most common reaction I got was that EVs were a good idea - for someone else. (I couldn't deal with that limited range). I almost never heard today's litany of anti-EV arguments from anyone. Today folks I talk to are much more informed about EVs. That makes for a classical good news, bad news situation. Some of them have generally positive views of EVs, though there still some misconceptions. A subset of those folks say they're considering an EV or PHV for their next vehicles. That's a really positive change. The idea that they might buy an EV wasn't even on their radar back in the day. On the other hand, some of the informed folks have clearly been deliberatly MISinformed. They've had their heads filled with anti-EV rhetoric by media. The media people in turn are paid (sponsored) by big- bucks interests who stand to someday lose a fraction of a percent of their petro-dollars income, or are otherwise threatened by EVs. (In some cases I don't doubt that they are literally paid to spread these views, given the ownership of some media conglomerates.) There's also a whole army of paid astroturfers who troll the online forums, and write to magazines and newspapers, to post anti-EV rhetoric. The same folks who pay them also pay anti-EV experts to appear on radio and television programs. But this is really no different from any other product today. Politicians and advertisers are really two ends of the same sausage. Their game is sowing discord and division. You're an Apple person or a Windows person, an IOS or an Android person, a Ford or a Chevy person, a Democrat or a Republican. Some of these brands demand more loyalty than others, but in every case there's an element of you're either with us or you're against us. Drink the Kool-aid, drink it all, or get lost. Alas, that's just the way things are now; there's not much we can do to change it. It's the reason that it's become difficult (at least for me) to argue rationally with the anti-EV folks. They're all upstanding members of the anti-EV club. Their minds are made up, and they don't want to be bothered with the facts. I say don't waste your time on them. Instead, invest it in the folks who still have open minds about EVs. Thank goodness there are still some. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
I usually just let them drive my car. Then they say this is just like a regular car only peppier Sent from my iPad On Nov 1, 2014, at 5:54 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: This is my observation about countering anti-EV rhetoric. If you find things are different where you are, I'd like to hear about it! Maybe 15-20 years ago, when I talked to people about EVs, most didn't know much about them. When I explained the state of the art (then), the most common reaction I got was that EVs were a good idea - for someone else. (I couldn't deal with that limited range). I almost never heard today's litany of anti-EV arguments from anyone. Today folks I talk to are much more informed about EVs. That makes for a classical good news, bad news situation. Some of them have generally positive views of EVs, though there still some misconceptions. A subset of those folks say they're considering an EV or PHV for their next vehicles. That's a really positive change. The idea that they might buy an EV wasn't even on their radar back in the day. On the other hand, some of the informed folks have clearly been deliberatly MISinformed. They've had their heads filled with anti-EV rhetoric by media. The media people in turn are paid (sponsored) by big- bucks interests who stand to someday lose a fraction of a percent of their petro-dollars income, or are otherwise threatened by EVs. (In some cases I don't doubt that they are literally paid to spread these views, given the ownership of some media conglomerates.) There's also a whole army of paid astroturfers who troll the online forums, and write to magazines and newspapers, to post anti-EV rhetoric. The same folks who pay them also pay anti-EV experts to appear on radio and television programs. But this is really no different from any other product today. Politicians and advertisers are really two ends of the same sausage. Their game is sowing discord and division. You're an Apple person or a Windows person, an IOS or an Android person, a Ford or a Chevy person, a Democrat or a Republican. Some of these brands demand more loyalty than others, but in every case there's an element of you're either with us or you're against us. Drink the Kool-aid, drink it all, or get lost. Alas, that's just the way things are now; there's not much we can do to change it. It's the reason that it's become difficult (at least for me) to argue rationally with the anti-EV folks. They're all upstanding members of the anti-EV club. Their minds are made up, and they don't want to be bothered with the facts. I say don't waste your time on them. Instead, invest it in the folks who still have open minds about EVs. Thank goodness there are still some. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV-spirits: Use a Halloween Costume for the EV-cause
Admittedly I don't read a lot of traditional media. But I do see a lot of EV- related media. So I'm puzzled by your reference to lots of anti-EV rhetoric. Where are you seeing it? I'm not. In fact, I see lots of positive things everywhere about EVs. I also see people much better informed about them than they ever have. And the awareness seems to be beyond just the usual suspects. Further, as I would have never imagined when I first started pushing EVs over 25 years ago, the movement towards EVs is going well beyond the light duty niche. I'm confident that they're here to stay, and in many flavors. I think that these are good times for EVs. Sent from my iPhone On Nov 1, 2014, at 3:54 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV ev@lists.evdl.org wrote: This is my observation about countering anti-EV rhetoric. If you find things are different where you are, I'd like to hear about it! Maybe 15-20 years ago, when I talked to people about EVs, most didn't know much about them. When I explained the state of the art (then), the most common reaction I got was that EVs were a good idea - for someone else. (I couldn't deal with that limited range). I almost never heard today's litany of anti-EV arguments from anyone. Today folks I talk to are much more informed about EVs. That makes for a classical good news, bad news situation. Some of them have generally positive views of EVs, though there still some misconceptions. A subset of those folks say they're considering an EV or PHV for their next vehicles. That's a really positive change. The idea that they might buy an EV wasn't even on their radar back in the day. On the other hand, some of the informed folks have clearly been deliberatly MISinformed. They've had their heads filled with anti-EV rhetoric by media. The media people in turn are paid (sponsored) by big- bucks interests who stand to someday lose a fraction of a percent of their petro-dollars income, or are otherwise threatened by EVs. (In some cases I don't doubt that they are literally paid to spread these views, given the ownership of some media conglomerates.) There's also a whole army of paid astroturfers who troll the online forums, and write to magazines and newspapers, to post anti-EV rhetoric. The same folks who pay them also pay anti-EV experts to appear on radio and television programs. But this is really no different from any other product today. Politicians and advertisers are really two ends of the same sausage. Their game is sowing discord and division. You're an Apple person or a Windows person, an IOS or an Android person, a Ford or a Chevy person, a Democrat or a Republican. Some of these brands demand more loyalty than others, but in every case there's an element of you're either with us or you're against us. Drink the Kool-aid, drink it all, or get lost. Alas, that's just the way things are now; there's not much we can do to change it. It's the reason that it's become difficult (at least for me) to argue rationally with the anti-EV folks. They're all upstanding members of the anti-EV club. Their minds are made up, and they don't want to be bothered with the facts. I say don't waste your time on them. Instead, invest it in the folks who still have open minds about EVs. Thank goodness there are still some. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to evpost and etpost addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
