Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Yeah , yet my team never clogged the streets (in the Safe dem zones) sans, 
masks (except when cameras appeared), and set things afire (mostly peaceful 
arson), looted, and burned down city blocks, etc. I am glad my side are the 
irrational ones. For me, I will wait and see how your team, once it ascends to 
office, and then becomes The Law and deals with the ignorant, rabble? Now, here 
is Cal DNC leader dave atkin's view. I do hope we take this all calmly, for 
once. 
https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1329511468912373761
-Original Message-
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2020 8:27 pm
Subject: Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

 
 
 On 11/27/2020 4:45 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 
Sure, Heisenberg was a guy who like Bohr, I believed, walked along talking 
about the quantum, with Einstein remaining a skeptic (or so I have read)? 
Heisenberg, yes, wasn't a political guy, and yet served the baddies to his best 
logical capability  
 That's not right. If you read the transcripts what it reveals is that he had 
far over estimated the amount of U235 needed to make a bomb. So he was probably 
just being honest when he told his Nazi bosses that more research was needed 
and a bomb could not be built in time to make a difference.  Incidentally he 
was accused of being a "white Jew" because of his association with Born and 
because he was a theoretician.  He had to be rescued by his mother phoning 
Speer's mother, the two of them having been friends in the past.
 
 
 (according to the UK MI-5 wiring tapping of his "new home" as a pow in the UK. 
But then, I had read Albert Speer's claims in his book after his release, 
Speer's suggestions as Hitler's architect and chief armaments  minister (who he 
claims couldn't get approval past Himmler & Goering). The stuff he claimed to 
have advocated were the V3 Waterfall rocket to be directed against Allied 
bombers. Also more panzerfausts and panzerschreck's. I suppose if I had a real 
point it would be to support the contention by Benjamin, of being reasonably 
skeptical of scientists, as well as the Leslie Groves of the world. In my 
feeble opinion, being rational about science, sans, actual observation and 
detection of behavior, Newtonian, or quantum is a ginormous error.  
 
 So to avoid error you are irrational about science?
 
 Brent
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Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

On 11/27/2020 4:45 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Sure, Heisenberg was a guy who like Bohr, I believed, walked along 
talking about the quantum, with Einstein remaining a skeptic (or so I 
have read)? Heisenberg, yes, wasn't a political guy, and yet served 
the baddies to his best logical capability


That's not right. If you read the transcripts what it reveals is that he 
had far over estimated the amount of U235 needed to make a bomb. So he 
was probably just being honest when he told his Nazi bosses that more 
research was needed and a bomb could not be built in time to make a 
difference.  Incidentally he was accused of being a "white Jew" because 
of his association with Born and because he was a theoretician.  He had 
to be rescued by his mother phoning Speer's mother, the two of them 
having been friends in the past.


(according to the UK MI-5 wiring tapping of his "new home" as a pow in 
the UK. But then, I had read Albert Speer's claims in his book after 
his release, Speer's suggestions as Hitler's architect and chief 
armaments  minister (who he claims couldn't get approval past Himmler 
& Goering). The stuff he claimed to have advocated were the V3 
Waterfall rocket to be directed against Allied bombers. Also more 
panzerfausts and panzerschreck's. I suppose if I had a real point it 
would be to support the contention by Benjamin, of being reasonably 
skeptical of scientists, as well as the Leslie Groves of the world. In 
my feeble opinion, being rational about science, sans,actual 
observation and detection of behavior, Newtonian, or quantum is a 
ginormous error.


So to avoid error you are irrational about science?

Brent

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Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

If I recall, adork saw the Capitalists as fools serving the interests of the 
Jew. That didn't stop him from taking piles of marks and gold from the German 
crony capitalists. This, I contend is a big flaw with both parties in the US, 
and the primo reason that they avoid serving the interests of the US middle 
class. Hitler did tolerate, despite his writings in 1928 (cited) pagan or 
non-conformal haters of Christianity, decrying "The Jewish Pity-Ethic of 
Jesus," and in Mein Kampf declaring that "The Ill-omened year 800 (Bill Shirer 
The Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich), was a bad choice for Charlemagne to do and 
that & "islam" was better choice." So is this relevant today? Only that I 
notice that politicians are the captives of campaign cash, and that maybe we 
should review Citizens United by the Supes?
https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/citizens-united-v-federal-election-commission/
So far in my wee opinion, the US middle class is being screwed over by the 
corporate establishment. Perhaps instead on politicians we should petition the 
Board of Directors instead? The true power.

-Original Message-
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2020 5:44 pm
Subject: Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

  
 On 11/27/2020 8:02 AM, Philip Benjamin wrote:
  
 
#yiv7178832078 #yiv7178832078 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered 
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#yiv7178832078 div.yiv7178832078WordSection1 {} [Brent Meeker] “Then there are 
an awful lot of pagans calling themselves "Christians".    Or does "pagans" 
just refer to people you think are trash, even when you don't say it? Brent” 
[Philip Benjamin] Definitions are mighty important.   
 Examples are are more important than definitions...as JKC is fond of reminding 
us.
 
 
  How do you define a pagan? A Non-pagan?   
 
 They're your terms.  What did you mean by them?
 
 
  Is there a REALLY scientific basis for these definitions that eventually 
involves INVISIBLE mental processes in the VISIBLE human bodies? The only 
candidate available for science today is a dark twin cocreated at the moment of 
conception with the light twin, where the dark-matter particles are of 
negligible mass (w.r.t electrons) and could be of the kind of axions, neutrinos 
and monopoles (published elsewhere).   
 
 ?? Word salad.
 
 
  The “Additional Mass” of the experimental results reported by Amrit Sorli 
with the growth and death of organisms in hermetically sealed tubes is of 
consequence here.  
   
 
 Reported where?  On Qanon?
 
 
  Was Hitler a socialist? That depends on whose definition one 
follows!! Public Schools, Britannica and such other anti- West WAMP 
publications disavow Hitler’s Socialism, because they do not want Socialism to 
be considered evil!! They also consider Mussolini as a pagan, because for the 
sake of cunningly consolidating his power he struck a deal with the gullible 
ecclesiastical establishment of his days. 
 
 The Pope wasn't gullible, he just wanted to be on the winning side...which 
ever it was.
 
 
Hitler also did the same with the Concordat (The Reichskonkordat). Hitler’s 
hatred for Orthodox Christian Russia is not from any hatred for any intrinsic 
Hatred for socialist/communist/fascist dictatorship!! He hated Gypsies, all 
kinds of Christians and Jews alike. 
 
 "I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all 
people to be allowed to wage this battle for Germany," 
     --- Adolf Hitler - Berlin March, 1936
 
 "The party as such represents the point of view of a positive
 Christianity without binding itself to any one particular
 confession."
   Adolf Hitler, in the Nazi manifesto:
 
 "We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have 
therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not 
merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.²
     ---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933
 
 "We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity in fact 
our movement is Christian."
     ---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, Bundesarchiv 
Berlin-Zehlendorf,         [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall¹s The Holy Reich] 
 
 "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy 
-- the Jews. The work that Christ started but did not finish, I, Adolf Hitler, 
will conclude."
    --- "The Book of Political Quotes," London: 

Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Sure, Heisenberg was a guy who like Bohr, I believed, walked along talking 
about the quantum, with Einstein remaining a skeptic (or so I have read)? 
Heisenberg, yes, wasn't a political guy, and yet served the baddies to his best 
logical capability (according to the UK MI-5 wiring tapping of his "new home" 
as a pow in the UK. But then, I had read Albert Speer's claims in his book 
after his release, Speer's suggestions as Hitler's architect and chief 
armaments  minister (who he claims couldn't get approval past Himmler & 
Goering). The stuff he claimed to have advocated were the V3 Waterfall rocket 
to be directed against Allied bombers. Also more panzerfausts and 
panzerschreck's. I suppose if I had a real point it would be to support the 
contention by Benjamin, of being reasonably skeptical of scientists, as well as 
the Leslie Groves of the world. In my feeble opinion, being rational about 
science, sans, actual observation and detection of behavior, Newtonian, or 
quantum is a ginormous error. So with politics, it seems honest to go with the 
adage, "follow the money $." 


-Original Message-
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
To: spudboy100 via Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2020 10:47 pm
Subject: Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

 Heisenberg headed the Nazi nuclear effort, but he recommended against building 
a bomb because it would take to long to affect the war (this was early in the 
war and it was generally assumed Germany would win in a few more months).  He 
mostly pursued the idea of a power reactor, but he didn't have a very good idea 
of how a reactor would work and greatly overestimated the amount of U235 
needed.  He was a theoretician and really a very bad choice to a manage what 
was essentially an engineering development.  In contrast the U.S. Manhattan 
project was headed by Gen. Leslie Groves whose experience and expertise was in 
building barracks.
 
 Brent
 
 On 11/26/2020 5:12 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 
Well, even some of the best scientific minds have gone astray frequently. 
Heisenberg, for example, headed the Nazi bomb effort, more with a shrug than a 
lot of thought. We did have worse examples of scientists screwing things up; 
Lysenko, the Eugenicists, Mengele, a physician and an anthropologist. For bad 
things in history, we do have a stake in keeping things Western, for a while, 
unless one sees Xi's China as the better model for scientific successes? For 
me, the carvings up of the Falun Gong and the Uighers awaits the eventual 
release of names of the scientists involved. I could be in for a very long 
wait. 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Philip Benjamin 
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2020 4:45 pm
 Subject: RE: FW: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020
 
  #yiv2716910107 -- filtered {}#yiv2716910107 filtered {}#yiv2716910107 
p.yiv2716910107MsoNormal, #yiv2716910107 li.yiv2716910107MsoNormal, 
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{}#yiv2716910107 div.yiv2716910107WordSection1 {}      
everything-list@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of L Cl  Wednesday, November 25, 
2020 6:23 PM  Subject: Re: FW: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020      
[Brilliant White America] or is it Yellow Gold or Black Gold or Purple Pearl 
America?“Dumb white trash America has spoken!… None of these ideas have any 
meaning to those of us who think in a primarily scientific way. Comments about 
Augustine or other ancient theologians are only of interest in some historical 
sense. You do not hear this kind of discussion in a scientific meeting. It is 
otiose and anachronistic stuff that frankly all looks a bit like nonsense. 
………..In growing up we put away childish things.”   LC  [Philip Benjamin]    
This is only for general education of “Brilliant (Supremacist?) White America”. 
Not everyone who posts here need be white, or of any particular religion or 
even American!!       No non-pagan citizen of any country will ever call any 
human being “trash”. Every PERSON no matter how heinous is worth more than “the 
whole world”. For general education two or three links are given below to open 
up, if at all possible, some closed minds. A scientist with a closed mind is a 
very dangerous species— nonetheless never any less worthy than “the whole 
world”. America has people from all over the world. That “knowledge” alone is 
necessary to be cautious with words. Philip Benjamin Only two countries are 
mentioned below, among so many.    https://www.ancient.eu/article/801   Mar 22, 
2018 · The credit for establishing Christianity as the official religion of 
ancient Armenia is traditionally given to Saint Gregory the Illuminator or 
Enlightener (previously known as Grigor Lusavorich, c. 

Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

On 11/27/2020 8:02 AM, Philip Benjamin wrote:


[*Brent Meeker*] “Then there are an awful lot of pagans calling 
themselves "Christians".    Or does "pagans" just refer to people you 
think are trash, even when you don't say it? Brent”


[*Philip Benjamin*]

Definitions are mighty important.



Examples are are more important than definitions...as JKC is fond of 
reminding us.



How do you define a pagan? A Non-pagan?



They're your terms.  What did you mean by them?

Is there a REALLY scientific basis for these definitions that 
eventually involves INVISIBLE mental processes in the VISIBLE human 
bodies? The only candidate available for science today is a dark twin 
cocreated at the moment of conception with the light twin, where the 
dark-matter particles are of negligible mass (w.r.t electrons) and 
could be of the kind of axions, neutrinos and monopoles (published 
elsewhere).




?? Word salad.

The “Additional Mass” of the experimental results reported by Amrit 
Sorli with the growth and death of organisms in hermetically sealed 
tubes is of consequence here.




Reported where?  On Qanon?

 Was Hitler a socialist? That depends on whose definition one 
follows!! Public Schools, Britannica and such other anti- West WAMP 
publications disavow Hitler’s Socialism, because they do not want 
Socialism to be considered evil!! They also consider Mussolini as a 
pagan, because for the sake of cunningly consolidating his power he 
struck a deal with the gullible ecclesiastical establishment of his days.




The Pope wasn't gullible, he just wanted to be on the winning 
side...which ever it was.


Hitler also did the same with the Concordat (The Reichskonkordat). 
Hitler’s hatred for Orthodox Christian Russia is not from any hatred 
for any intrinsic Hatred for socialist/communist/fascist 
dictatorship!! He hated Gypsies, all kinds of Christians and Jews alike.




"I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of 
all people to be allowed to wage this battle for Germany,"

    --- Adolf Hitler - Berlin March, 1936

"The party as such represents the point of view of a positive
Christianity without binding itself to any one particular
confession."
  Adolf Hitler, in the Nazi manifesto:

"We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have 
therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that 
not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.²

    ---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933

"We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity 
in fact our movement is Christian."
    ---Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928, 
Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf,         [cited from Richard 
Steigmann-Gall¹s The Holy Reich]


"Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world 
enemy -- the Jews. The work that Christ started but did not finish, I, 
Adolf Hitler, will conclude."

   --- "The Book of Political Quotes," London: Angus & Robertson
Publishers, 1982, p. 195

See if you can find reality on a map, Phil.

Brent

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Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Radical socialist, is a term that needs to be well-defined. We might call a 
person's economics radical socialist if they leave the "safety' of John Maynard 
Keynes? But for me. some socialism I can live with and wish to pay for 
tax-wise, if it seems like it would benefit the US middle class? The Nordic 
model worked quite well because as a Finlandia writer explained; "That we 
looked upon our taxes paying into our medical plans as an investment for the 
future." Now this, I can surely sympathize with.
I would've endorsed the Donald picking up 4 trillion in college student (and 
other's) debts, as long as he insured that the Administration (not the Faculty) 
were removed from their jobs if they used failed to prevent limits of the 1st 
Amendment, on campus. The faculty have a right to lecture in classrooms and 
labs, the administration has zero right to repress the 1st Amendment.  This is 
simply my opinion, and caveat, my oppy doesn't matter because based on years of 
observation, unless one contributes a ton of money upon said, Lobbyist, nothing 
will get achieved for good or ill. $.


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Fri, Nov 27, 2020 10:32 am
Subject: Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020



On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 7:00:54 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Socialism is merely a path or should be, and not a goal. Socialism was indeed 
the primary method by the nazis for social control, for those not relegated to 
the camps. Later, the Soviets resorted to this softer approach. The Nazis did 
go big for crony capitalism of which we see plaguing the US today.  That 
Christianity should be blamed for expanding slavery amongst the New World is a 
fair accusation. That the fact that Islam as a society produced and equally 
large slave trade, beforehand, and at the same time, and afterwards, is being 
ignored for ideological reasons, obviously. 
https://www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759
At this point Eugene Debs is not on the same socialist road and Brother Bernie, 
nor, Kamala, nor, AOC, nor, congresswoman Rashida, and so forth, Plus. like the 
Deutschlanders the deutschlanders of the period, also do what democrats and 
republican representatives now do, represent the very wealthy. Republicans- 
(note, the zero in the column indicates the other 
side)https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donors?cycle=2020=hi

To think that Biden and Harris are radical socialists is absurd. Biden has been 
a centrist democrat his entire political career and Harris has been a pretty 
centrist prosecutor. To think these two are even in line with Bernie Sanders is 
wrong, where Sanders is really about in line is a center-left political party 
in Europe. I think this is a relative thing, where as the American political 
center has gone further right what was once the center is now seen as radical 
left. A GOP congressman a few years back even said Reagan was too socialist. 
Given the trajectory of things do not be surprised if next decade t'Rump is 
called to leftist by the right wing.
LC 


Democrats- (note, the zero in the column indicates the other 
side)https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donors
I suspect as of tonight we might not or perhaps should not, survive intact as a 
nation-state much longer, because we have nothing that unites us. I would 
meekly advise the EU members that arrive here, to consider their own continuity 
national, or EU, because they US likely will not be able to deliver things like 
NATO contribution etc. 

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2020 6:15 pm
Subject: Re: FW: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

Another bag of bullshit has been deposited here. First off while Nazism is 
short for national socialism, it is not socialism in any democratic sense. To 
call Hitler a socialist, say in the context of Eugene Debs or other socialists 
within the democratic frame is a dishonest lie. There was also no particular 
connection to the sort of mystery mongering you cite with the Nazis. They were 
not particularly given to things like fortune telling, other than maybe a bit 
of gaming. Anyway, Ronald Reagan consulted with an astrologer.
When it comes to your list o,f things important, aseity, causality, origin, 
meanings, morals, telos, ideas of eschaton and so forth only causality and 
maybe origin are relevant. If you do not think physics has something to do with 
causality then you clearly do not know what you are talking about. Origins with 
respect to cosmology and quantum generation of spacetime is of importance. As 
for the rest of this, it is largely just excess metaphysics, some of it bad 
metaphysics such as eschatology, and most of it should be placed where it 
belongs. the trash can. As for the rest with parallel universes, really then 
are orthogonal, and the like you are raising silly strawmen issues.
I read an 

Re: A universe where everything exists?

[Tomas Pales]

The idea of an all-encompassing set (a set of all sets) is inconsistent, 
for example because the power set of a set (=the set of all subsets of a 
set) is an even bigger set. If a set is infinite then its power set has an 
even bigger infinite size. So there is no biggest set, just as there is no 
biggest number and no biggest infinity. There just seems to be a 
never-ending hierarchy of sets, from the empty set upward and maybe there 
are also sets that have no bottom, that is they contain sets that contain 
sets etc. without end. But everything needs to be kept consistent and I 
have heard that according to Godel's second incompleteness theorem there 
may be inconsistencies lurking in infinities which we may never be able to 
detect.


On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 6:57:47 PM UTC+1 Mindey I. wrote:

> Curiously, I found the Everything List, because I wanted to to create a "A 
> Universe Where Everything Can Exist" ( https://mindey.com/world.pdf ), 
> which the Google search of 2007 returned me to my search query "How to 
> create a universe, where everything can exist?"
>
> So, suppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would 
> that universe be a superset of all possible universes, or, just the same 
> set?
>

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FW: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[Philip Benjamin]

From: general_the...@googlegroups.com   On Behalf Of Philip Benjamin  Subject: 
{Consciousness-Online} RE: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[Brent Meeker] “Then there are an awful lot of pagans calling themselves 
"Christians".Or does "pagans" just refer to people you think are trash, 
even when you don't say it? Brent”
[Philip Benjamin]
Definitions are mighty important. How do you define a pagan? A Non-pagan? Is 
there a REALLY scientific basis for these definitions that eventually involves 
INVISIBLE mental processes in the VISIBLE human bodies? The only candidate 
available for science today is a dark twin cocreated at the moment of 
conception with the light twin, where the dark-matter particles are of 
negligible mass (w.r.t electrons) and could be of the kind of axions, neutrinos 
and monopoles (published elsewhere). The “Additional Mass” of the experimental 
results reported by Amrit Sorli with the growth and death of organisms in 
hermetically sealed tubes is of consequence here.
 Was Hitler a socialist? That depends on whose definition one follows!! 
Public Schools, Britannica and such other anti- West WAMP publications disavow 
Hitler’s Socialism, because they do not want Socialism to be considered evil!! 
They also consider Mussolini as a pagan, because for the sake of cunningly 
consolidating his power he struck a deal with the gullible ecclesiastical 
establishment of his days. Hitler also did the same with the Concordat (The 
Reichskonkordat). Hitler’s hatred for Orthodox Christian Russia is not from any 
hatred for any intrinsic Hatred for socialist/communist/fascist dictatorship!! 
He hated Gypsies, all kinds of Christians and Jews alike. There is absolutely 
no difference now of Hitlerite tactics of the 
Marxist/Socialist/Fascists/Antifa/WAMP movements in the West in complete 
cahoots with politicians as well as drug and human traffickers. Dictatorship is 
dictatorship, be it  Business-Statist fascist (Antifa), socialist, or Marxist 
(BLM). The WAMP is in a hurry to malign all non-pagans by rewriting history.
  WAMP = Western Acade-Media 
Pagan(ism)
  Pagan  =  Pan-Gaia-n 
(earthlings, earth worshiper)
Non-pagan =  Acceptor of revelatory 
knowledge of Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (plural) with
   Patriarchal, 
Prophetic and Apostolic imprimatur.
Philip Benjamin

From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List  Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:47 PM 
Subject: Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

Heisenberg headed the Nazi nuclear effort, but he recommended against building 
a bomb because it would take to long to affect the war (this was early in the 
war and it was generally assumed Germany would win in a few more months).  He 
mostly pursued the idea of a power reactor, but he didn't have a very good idea 
of how a reactor would work and greatly overestimated the amount of U235 
needed.  He was a theoretician and really a very bad choice to a manage what 
was essentially an engineering development.  In contrast the U.S. Manhattan 
project was headed by Gen. Leslie Groves whose experience and expertise was in 
building barracks.

Brent
On 11/26/2020 5:12 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Well, even some of the best scientific minds have gone astray frequently. 
Heisenberg, for example, headed the Nazi bomb effort, more with a shrug than a 
lot of thought. We did have worse examples of scientists screwing things up; 
Lysenko, the Eugenicists, Mengele, a physician and an anthropologist. For bad 
things in history, we do have a stake in keeping things Western, for a while, 
unless one sees Xi's China as the better model for scientific successes? For 
me, the carvings up of the Falun Gong and the Uighers awaits the eventual 
release of names of the scientists involved. I could be in for a very long wait.
-Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2020 4:45 pm
Subject: RE: FW: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020


everything-list@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of L Cl  Wednesday, November 25, 2020 6:23 PM  Subject: Re: FW: A 
Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[Brilliant White America] or is it Yellow Gold or Black Gold or Purple Pearl 
America?
“Dumb white trash America has spoken!… None of these ideas have any meaning to 
those of us who think in a primarily scientific way. Comments about Augustine 
or other ancient theologians are only of interest in some historical sense. You 
do not hear this kind of discussion in a scientific meeting. It is otiose and 
anachronistic stuff that frankly all looks a bit like nonsense. ………..In growing 
up we put away 

RE: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[Philip Benjamin]

[Brent Meeker] "Then there are an awful lot of pagans calling themselves 
"Christians".Or does "pagans" just refer to people you think are trash, 
even when you don't say it? Brent"
[Philip Benjamin]
Definitions are mighty important. How do you define a pagan? A Non-pagan? Is 
there a REALLY scientific basis for these definitions that eventually involves 
INVISIBLE mental processes in the VISIBLE human bodies? The only candidate 
available for science today is a dark twin cocreated at the moment of 
conception with the light twin, where the dark-matter particles are of 
negligible mass (w.r.t electrons) and could be of the kind of axions, neutrinos 
and monopoles (published elsewhere). The "Additional Mass" of the experimental 
results reported by Amrit Sorli with the growth and death of organisms in 
hermetically sealed tubes is of consequence here.
 Was Hitler a socialist? That depends on whose definition one follows!! 
Public Schools, Britannica and such other anti- West WAMP publications disavow 
Hitler's Socialism, because they do not want Socialism to be considered evil!! 
They also consider Mussolini as a pagan, because for the sake of cunningly 
consolidating his power he struck a deal with the gullible ecclesiastical 
establishment of his days. Hitler also did the same with the Concordat (The 
Reichskonkordat). Hitler's hatred for Orthodox Christian Russia is not from any 
hatred for any intrinsic Hatred for socialist/communist/fascist dictatorship!! 
He hated Gypsies, all kinds of Christians and Jews alike. There is absolutely 
no difference now of Hitlerite tactics of the 
Marxist/Socialist/Fascists/Antifa/WAMP movements in the West in complete 
cahoots with politicians as well as drug and human traffickers. Dictatorship is 
dictatorship, be it  Business-Statist fascist (Antifa), socialist, or Marxist 
(BLM). The WAMP is in a hurry to malign all non-pagans by rewriting history.
  WAMP = Western Acade-Media 
Pagan(ism)
  Pagan  =  Pan-Gaia-n 
(earthlings, earth worshiper)
Non-pagan =  Acceptor of revelatory 
knowledge of Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (plural) with
   Patriarchal, 
Prophetic and Apostolic imprimatur.
Philip Benjamin

From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List  Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:47 PM 
Subject: Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

Heisenberg headed the Nazi nuclear effort, but he recommended against building 
a bomb because it would take to long to affect the war (this was early in the 
war and it was generally assumed Germany would win in a few more months).  He 
mostly pursued the idea of a power reactor, but he didn't have a very good idea 
of how a reactor would work and greatly overestimated the amount of U235 
needed.  He was a theoretician and really a very bad choice to a manage what 
was essentially an engineering development.  In contrast the U.S. Manhattan 
project was headed by Gen. Leslie Groves whose experience and expertise was in 
building barracks.

Brent
On 11/26/2020 5:12 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Well, even some of the best scientific minds have gone astray frequently. 
Heisenberg, for example, headed the Nazi bomb effort, more with a shrug than a 
lot of thought. We did have worse examples of scientists screwing things up; 
Lysenko, the Eugenicists, Mengele, a physician and an anthropologist. For bad 
things in history, we do have a stake in keeping things Western, for a while, 
unless one sees Xi's China as the better model for scientific successes? For 
me, the carvings up of the Falun Gong and the Uighers awaits the eventual 
release of names of the scientists involved. I could be in for a very long wait.

-Original Message-
From: Philip Benjamin 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2020 4:45 pm
Subject: RE: FW: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020


everything-list@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of L Cl  Wednesday, November 25, 2020 6:23 PM  Subject: Re: FW: A 
Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[Brilliant White America] or is it Yellow Gold or Black Gold or Purple Pearl 
America?
"Dumb white trash America has spoken!... None of these ideas have any meaning 
to those of us who think in a primarily scientific way. Comments about 
Augustine or other ancient theologians are only of interest in some historical 
sense. You do not hear this kind of discussion in a scientific meeting. It is 
otiose and anachronistic stuff that frankly all looks a bit like nonsense. 
...In growing up we put away childish things."
LC
[Philip Benjamin]
This is only for general education of "Brilliant (Supremacist?) White America". 
Not everyone who 

Re: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 7:00:54 PM UTC-6 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Socialism is merely a path or should be, and not a goal. Socialism was 
> indeed the primary method by the nazis for social control, for those not 
> relegated to the camps. Later, the Soviets resorted to this softer 
> approach. The Nazis did go big for crony capitalism of which we see 
> plaguing the US today.  That Christianity should be blamed for expanding 
> slavery amongst the New World is a fair accusation. That the fact that 
> Islam as a society produced and equally large slave trade, beforehand, and 
> at the same time, and afterwards, is being ignored for ideological reasons, 
> obviously.  
> https://www.dw.com/en/east-africas-forgotten-slave-trade/a-50126759
>
> At this point Eugene Debs is not on the same socialist road and Brother 
> Bernie, nor, Kamala, nor, AOC, nor, congresswoman Rashida, and so forth, 
> Plus. like the Deutschlanders the deutschlanders of the period, also do 
> what democrats and republican representatives now do, represent the very 
> wealthy. 
> Republicans- (note, the zero in the column indicates the other side)
>
> https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donors?cycle=2020=hi
>

To think that Biden and Harris are radical socialists is absurd. Biden has 
been a centrist democrat his entire political career and Harris has been a 
pretty centrist prosecutor. To think these two are even in line with Bernie 
Sanders is wrong, where Sanders is really about in line is a center-left 
political party in Europe. I think this is a relative thing, where as the 
American political center has gone further right what was once the center 
is now seen as radical left. A GOP congressman a few years back even said 
Reagan was too socialist. Given the trajectory of things do not be 
surprised if next decade t'Rump is called to leftist by the right wing.

LC
 

>
> Democrats- (note, the zero in the column indicates the other side)
> https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donors
>
> I suspect as of tonight we might not or perhaps should not, survive intact 
> as a nation-state much longer, because we have nothing that unites us. I 
> would meekly advise the EU members that arrive here, to consider their own 
> continuity national, or EU, because they US likely will not be able to 
> deliver things like NATO contribution etc. 
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Thu, Nov 26, 2020 6:15 pm
> Subject: Re: FW: A Lamentation on Thanksgiving 2020
>
> Another bag of bullshit has been deposited here. First off while Nazism is 
> short for national socialism, it is not socialism in any democratic sense. 
> To call Hitler a socialist, say in the context of Eugene Debs or other 
> socialists within the democratic frame is a dishonest lie. There was also 
> no particular connection to the sort of mystery mongering you cite with the 
> Nazis. They were not particularly given to things like fortune telling, 
> other than maybe a bit of gaming. Anyway, Ronald Reagan consulted with an 
> astrologer. 
>
> When it comes to your list o,f things important, aseity, causality, 
> origin, meanings, morals, telos, ideas of eschaton and so forth only 
> causality and maybe origin are relevant. If you do not think physics has 
> something to do with causality then you clearly do not know what you are 
> talking about. Origins with respect to cosmology and quantum generation of 
> spacetime is of importance. As for the rest of this, it is largely just 
> excess metaphysics, some of it bad metaphysics such as eschatology, and 
> most of it should be placed where it belongs. the trash can. As for the 
> rest with parallel universes, really then are orthogonal, and the like you 
> are raising silly strawmen issues.
>
> I read an archeological article 20 years ago or so on findings in Europe 
> from the 5th to the 8th centuries. There are being unearthed mass graves of 
> people who were massacred by papal soldiers. It relates how the expansion 
> of Christianity was accomplished by bloodshed, and this was mirrored later 
> in the Crusades and then later in the European expansion into the Americas 
> and elsewhere with the imperial expansion of slavery. Where Europeans came 
> bearing crosses mass death and murder followed. This was only possibly 
> challenged in its horror by the expansion of Islam. The noble consciousness 
> awakening you cite with Augustine has a serious trail of blood and dead 
> bodies.
>
> I see all of this as at best dead metaphysics that largely I think we need 
> to simply throw out with trash.
>
> LC
>
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 9:25:38 AM UTC-6 medinuclear wrote:
>
> [*Philip Benjamin*]  
>On the usual civilized pagan notion that “ None of these ideas 
> have any meaning to those of us who think in a primarily scientific way,” 
> it must be noted that SOCIALIST Germany under SOCIALIST Hitler was the most 
> 

Re: A universe where everything exists?

[Lawrence Crowell]

This is a part of what I said earlier. Think of this with Bayesian 
statistics with P(A∩B ) = p(A|B)p(B) = p(B|A)p(A). With an excluded middle 
with  A∩B = Ø we can only conclude that p(A|B) = p(B|A) = 0 and so these 
correspond to situation with absolutely zero prior or posterior 
probabilities. So if some state of affairs is contradictory, then they have 
zero probability. In quantum logic we can think of this according to 
destructive interference, so there are physical states that cannot exist by 
destructive interference.

LC

On Friday, November 27, 2020 at 4:14:05 AM UTC-6 Bruno Marchal wrote:

>
> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:57, Mindey I.  wrote:
>
> Curiously, I found the Everything List, because I wanted to to create a "A 
> Universe Where Everything Can Exist" ( https://mindey.com/world.pdf ), 
> which the Google search of 2007 returned me to my search query "How to 
> create a universe, where everything can exist?”
>
>
> What do you mean? 
>
> In such a universe there would be circle with four sides?
>
> The word" thing” needs a presentation or representation in some theory of 
>  “thing".
>
> I urge people to study a bit of mathematical logic which explains all this.
>
>
>
> So, suppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would 
> that universe be a superset of all possible universes, or, just the same 
> set?
>
>
>
> ”everything” is too much ambiguous without a theory of the things which 
> are assumed. 
>
> All notions of whole, are limited when made precise enough, or are 
> inconsistent. The term “universe” is as bad as the term “god” when used out 
> of an hypothetical frame. 
>
> Today, we can approximate string notion of everything is classical set 
> theory, but like in arithmetic, you will always miss the big whole. The 
> collection of all set cannot be a set. The number of numbers cannot be a 
> number, the whole physical reality cannot be a physical object … Now, this 
> can be doubted if you use a special set theory allowing universal object, 
> like Quine's New Foundation, but this does not prevent other type of 
> limitations.
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: A universe where everything exists?

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 26 Nov 2020, at 18:57, Mindey I.  wrote:
> 
> Curiously, I found the Everything List, because I wanted to to create a "A 
> Universe Where Everything Can Exist" ( https://mindey.com/world.pdf ), which 
> the Google search of 2007 returned me to my search query "How to create a 
> universe, where everything can exist?”

What do you mean? 

In such a universe there would be circle with four sides?

The word" thing” needs a presentation or representation in some theory of  
“thing".

I urge people to study a bit of mathematical logic which explains all this.


> 
> So, suppose that we create a universe, where everything exists, -- would that 
> universe be a superset of all possible universes, or, just the same set?


”everything” is too much ambiguous without a theory of the things which are 
assumed. 

All notions of whole, are limited when made precise enough, or are 
inconsistent. The term “universe” is as bad as the term “god” when used out of 
an hypothetical frame. 

Today, we can approximate string notion of everything is classical set theory, 
but like in arithmetic, you will always miss the big whole. The collection of 
all set cannot be a set. The number of numbers cannot be a number, the whole 
physical reality cannot be a physical object … Now, this can be doubted if you 
use a special set theory allowing universal object, like Quine's New 
Foundation, but this does not prevent other type of limitations.

Bruno



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Re: The Conscious Turing Machine

[Bruno Marchal]

Trying to detect (or understand) consciousness from the architecture, is like 
trying to explain alpha of deep blue by looking how a gate is working. The 
architecture might be contingent, and has nothing to do with an explanation 
which (assuming mechanism) is of an higher order, like an algorithm, or like a 
full psychology or theology of the entities concerned.

Consciousness, like Truth, is not among the definable notion, although it is 
easy to metadefined it when we assume Mechanism. (In that case, consciousness 
is the belief in a reality, in case there is a reality (which we can never 
justify rationally).

This does not prevent us to bet our fellows are conscious, or that there is 
some reality “beyond my personal experience”. 

Bruno


> On 26 Nov 2020, at 22:57, Philip Thrift  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday, November 26, 2020 at 2:15:53 PM UTC-6 Brent wrote:
> 
> 
> On 11/26/2020 4:28 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
>> The architecture they specify in their paper
>> 
>>  https://arxiv.org/pdf/2011.09850.pdf 
>> 
>> 
>> could be of interest to the AI hacker (MIT AI Lab type) trying to implement 
>> and demonstrate a "conscious" robot" (even just an impressively "fake" one). 
>> 
>> We agree with Christof Koch that “There isn’t a Turing Test for 
>> consciousness. You have to look at the way the system is built. You have to 
>> look at the circuitry, not [only] its behavior”. We would emphasize 
>> “architecture” over “circuitry”.
> 
> Then can they answer the question, "Is an octopus conscious?"  Octopuses have 
> a very different neural architecture.  Two thirds of their neurons are in 
> their legs.  They have almost as many as a dog (5e8 vs 7e8).  They play.  
> They recognize individual people.  I'd say they are conscious...but then I'm 
> only looking at behavior.  I curious as to what looking at architecture would 
> contribute?
> 
> Brent
> 
> Their "architecture" is in the sense of a programming architecture (as would 
> be needed in a "conscious" robot).
> 
> 
> We see a kinship between the CTM and the self-aware robots developed by 
> (Chella, Pipitone, Morin, & Racy, 2020).
> 
> (The cognitive architecture for inner and private speech)
> 
> https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/frobt.2020.00016/full
> https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b0d2/a60bd8cdda4f6f043c75dba941ade86c9843.pdf
> 
> @philipthrift
> 
> 
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Re: The Conscious Turing Machine

[Bruno Marchal]

> On 25 Nov 2020, at 23:52, Lawrence Crowell  
> wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, November 25, 2020 at 8:58:14 AM UTC-6 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 24, 2020 at 2:17 PM Philip Thrift  > wrote:
> 
> > The Conscious Turing Machine
> arXiv:
> https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.09850 
> 
> DEFINITION 1.5.1. At each time t ≥ 0, Short Term Memory holds exactly one 
> chunk, which is designated the entirety of Conscious Turing Machine's 
> conscious content. Consciousness in Conscious Turing Machine is defined to be 
> the awareness (i.e. the reception by all Long Term Memory). It defines the 
> conscious content of Conscious Turing Machine to be whatever chunk is in 
> Short Term Memory; and then defines Conscious Awareness by the Conscious 
> Turing Machineto be the reception by all Long Term Memory processors of Short 
> Term Memory's broadcast of that content. The gists of those broadcasts may be 
> viewed as the inner thoughts generated by Conscious Turing Machine's 
> unconscious processors or the speech, vision, touch, taste, and/or whatever 
> else is received as input by the Conscious Turing Machine
> 
> Consciousness and awareness mean the same thing, so all the verbiage in the 
> above could be boiled down to "Consciousness in Conscious Turing Machine 
> theory is defined to be consciousness" which I don't find to be terribly 
> helpful. And in the article I don't see even a hint as to how an experimental 
> test could be performed to see if this "theory" is actually correct.
> 
> John K Clark
> 
> Blum defined a funny sort of meaning to incomputability, which is basically 
> recursively enumerable.

This is just the usual Turing one, although expressed in a slightly ambiguous 
way. “Computable” means usually “total computable”.


> Blum stated this was incomputable because the computation would not halt and 
> there is no final output. This differs from Turing's definition in that one 
> cannot determine if all things halt or do not halt. 


Halting is “partial computable”. A function is said non computable everywhere 
it is not defined, and that is itself only partially computable. Partially 
computable entails partially not computable in case the function is not total.


> 
> The video is sort of long and I am not sure if I have the time to devote to 
> this. This definition of inner thought being conferred to a system which 
> exhibits the outward properties of a person known to have inner thoughts is 
> not much different from the Turing test definition.

Yes, and that is why it useless for the mind-body problem. 


> This is couched in the definition of memory or long term memory as a cache of 
> short term memories. This seems rather artificial to me.

It makes sense for some application, but avoid the usual difficulties, like the 
whole Aristotelian (weak-materialist) tradition. 

Bruno


> 
> LC 
> 
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