Re: Leibniz view on why why bottom up control cannot work for the brain
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: Likewise the self-driving cars on earth Yes. and consciousness on the brain. Maybe :) On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: The Mars Rover is controlled from Earth. That's hardly a bottom-up control See George Ellis http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1212/1212.2275.pdf Hi Richard, Roger's claim was that Materialistic science and programming has no such feature [downward control]. The Mars Rover clearly does, because there is a communication delay of at least 4 minutes to Mars, so it must be able to do things by itself. On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: A Leibnizian view on why bottom up programing cannot work for the brain 1. In order for the brain to control or govern there must be a single governor Why? 2. The single governor must be the single most dominant element in the system and must control downward, not upward Why? 3. Materialistic science and programming has no such feature. The Mars Rover begs to disagree. Telmo. Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Leibniz view on why why bottom up control cannot work for the brain
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: A Leibnizian view on why bottom up programing cannot work for the brain 1. In order for the brain to control or govern there must be a single governor Why? 2. The single governor must be the single most dominant element in the system and must control downward, not upward Why? 3. Materialistic science and programming has no such feature. The Mars Rover begs to disagree. Telmo. Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Leibniz view on why why bottom up control cannot work for the brain
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: The Mars Rover is controlled from Earth. That's hardly a bottom-up control See George Ellis http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1212/1212.2275.pdf Hi Richard, Roger's claim was that Materialistic science and programming has no such feature [downward control]. The Mars Rover clearly does, because there is a communication delay of at least 4 minutes to Mars, so it must be able to do things by itself. On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: A Leibnizian view on why bottom up programing cannot work for the brain 1. In order for the brain to control or govern there must be a single governor Why? 2. The single governor must be the single most dominant element in the system and must control downward, not upward Why? 3. Materialistic science and programming has no such feature. The Mars Rover begs to disagree. Telmo. Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: Leibniz view on why why bottom up control cannot work for the brain
Likewise the self-driving cars on earth and consciousness on the brain. On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.comwrote: On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: The Mars Rover is controlled from Earth. That's hardly a bottom-up control See George Ellis http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1212/1212.2275.pdf Hi Richard, Roger's claim was that Materialistic science and programming has no such feature [downward control]. The Mars Rover clearly does, because there is a communication delay of at least 4 minutes to Mars, so it must be able to do things by itself. On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 9:13 AM, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: A Leibnizian view on why bottom up programing cannot work for the brain 1. In order for the brain to control or govern there must be a single governor Why? 2. The single governor must be the single most dominant element in the system and must control downward, not upward Why? 3. Materialistic science and programming has no such feature. The Mars Rover begs to disagree. Telmo. Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] See my Leibniz site at http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything List group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
