Re: Before Big Bang What?

[Lawrence Crowell]

No Boltzmann brains (BBs). The instability of the de Sitter (dS) vacuum 
makes the probability for BBs very small. The problem with the BB is that 
if they exist we may not know whether we are BBs, or that I am a BB and all 
other people are phantasms of my mind. The problem is that if the dS vacuum 
were eternal the integrated probability for a BB is one, they are 
necessary. But, it the dS vacuum has finite time and is unstable, even if 
it can remain for 10^{10^{10^{10}}} years this reduces the probability of a 
BB from unity or one to near zero.

LC

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 4:51:22 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> It may not be "God" but it may, more significantly, be mind.  
>
> If its a Boltzmann Brain who woke with false memories, and was the only BB 
> in quintillions of years to successfully open and sustain itself (as has 
> been proposed) I say, who am I to be disinterested, disrespectful, or 
> reject it, him, her, them? The point would be, that it seems interested in 
> what you do for a living, what an astrophysicist does to earn a paycheck, 
> and this may be sufficient. It reacts and responds, apparently. This may 
> also have impact on how fast information can actually travel, or what 
> detects what some people are doing? 
>
> I won't get into the probability that UFO's is the BB is  interacting with 
> subjects by giving us an anthropomorphic symbolism to gaze upon? My feeling 
> is that people are more likely lying to get attention, than anything else, 
> because lying works in so many other areas of human activity, so why not 
> simply lie? Ball lightning created by piezo-electric geology thus becomes 
> an alien intervention. 
>
> I am primate-enough to enjoy the idea of a big mind, so for "God" us 
> beggars can't be choosers, especially if He's got the time and interest to 
> get things mended? For those who need this idea like a fork to the eye, I 
> say, wonderful. Glad to hear that you have your emotions whipped into 
> shape, because it sounds very healthy. No Problemo. Rock on! 
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Sun, Jul 3, 2022 8:52 am
> Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What?
>
> I remember seeing this paper. I have not yet read it. I will say though 
> that at a point where a system ceases to be Markovian, such as white noise 
> or with Gaussian distribution of signals that are not correlated, and 
> becomes sub-Markovian that you have the prospect for fluctuations or memory 
> to propagate into the future. Fluctuations now have kurtosis of some sort. 
> This is actually how evolution works. This is though not something that I 
> think automatically points to some sort of God. 
>
> LC
>
> On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 7:55:20 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> To my way of thinking, God as an answer, gets in scientists path to 
> understanding how things work or interact? If God is an answer for 
> everything, no wonder the Muslim's Insh Allah (God wills it) satisfied 
> research inquiry. If God wills it and is the cause for everything than why 
> study it? On the Udder Hand sez da Kozmic Kow, "If the Buddha stands in 
> your path, strike him down."  Meaning, if you got a better way, friend, 
> don't let me stop you.  
>
> For myself? I always seek what researchers say first most of time, because 
> its less vague than the religious stuff and thus, more precise. 
>
> Having said that there are a couple of stumble upons, one of which I 
> present here. 
> https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.03902
>
> With this LC, you'll get to attack Smollin which may or may not be worth 
> your while? But it is not the standard model of cosmology either and lends 
> itself nicely, to the idea of a "big mind." It may not please the 
> traditional religions, but who says they get to have all the fun? In 
> religiosity, it seems closer to Brahma in the Hindu faith. Or, perhaps, the 
> fellow Heston chatted with in 10 Com. "The light of eternal mind." Pretty 
> good for 1956. Also, as I have noted before, if this is the fact, then you, 
> as an atheist are in this fashion are one of the "holiest of humanity," 
> because you study what the big mind does, up close. It may enjoy what 
> you're doing as opposed to grubby, snot covered peasants, such as myself, 
> busy claiming that "me neighbors a witch cause me pig gave sour milk!" 
>
> As always suspicious of me neighbor,
> Spud (sniffling)
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2022 10:07 am
> Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What?
>
> In the end one can ask, "What is the purpose of God (Allah or Ha Shem 
> etc)?" It is similar to chasing the existential core down an infinite 
> rabbit hole, maybe to become Dostoyevsky's underground man. There are no 
> possible answers that can be rationally derived. Monotheist religions posit 
> a disembodied conscious entity of infinite capacity, which because there is 
> an infinite number of what 

Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

[John Clark]

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 1:43 AM  wrote:

> *JC, for El Trumpo, my tears have all dried and I have moved on as we all
> must.*
>

I wish I could stop talking about Trump but I can't because he has not
reached room temperature and I;m sure he's going to run again in 2024. And
people like you are going to vote for him again even though he has proven
himself to be a far worse traitor than Benedict Arnold.


> *> Trump did fight Putin's mercs in Syria in 2018,*
>

This is the first sentence of an article about that in the December 19 2018
issue of the New York Times:

 "*President Trump has ordered the withdrawal of 2,000 American troops from
Syria, bringing a sudden end to a military campaign that largely vanquished
the Islamic State but ceding a strategically vital country to Russia and
Iran*."

> *The Don wouldn't have done a withdrawal from Jihad land without prepping
properly,*

Prepping properly? The US had been in Afghanistan for 20 goddamn years, how
much more "prepping" do they need?

>  *It is hard to believe that Vlad really feared NATO.*
>

Then why does Putin always make a big fuss every time a new country decides
to join NATO?  I know that you like me are not a big fan of communism so
consider this, NATO is the reason all of Europe didn't become communistic,
it is the only reason Stalan's tanks didn't roll as far west as the
Atlantic in the early 1950s, or even the late 1940s. And have things really
changed all that much, Putin's Russia is smaller than the old USSR but
other than that do you see any real improvement? The USSR hadn't started a
war in Europe as large as Putin's Ukrainian war since 1939 when the USSR
invaded Finland, which is about to become a NATO member I might add.  But
Trump says "*NATO is obsolete, because it was designed many, many years
ago, it is obsolete and a relic of the Cold War*". Trump  said the US
shouldn't help Montenegro if it was attacked even though Montenegro is a
NATO ally and we promised that we would, but to be fair Trump is such an
ignoramus he probably didn't even know Montenegro is a NATO ally. However
Trump did know Germany was part of NATO and he said  "*Germany owes vast
sums of money to NATO*" but like most things that come out of his piehole that
is a complete lie, it doesn't.


> > El Donaldo complained that "Germany will just end up being a servant
> state of Putin."
>

That's nothing new, every president since Bill Clinton has said the same
thing, if not about Putin about Russia.

I'll conclude by asking a question I've asked many times before but you
have never answered, I'm sure you're not gonna answer this time either but
I'm gonna ask it anyway because it's goddamn important! Would you be happy
if the Biden/Harris ticket lost by a substantial margin both in the
electoral college and the popular vote in 2024 to Donald Trump but on
January 6, 2025 Kamala Harris just decreed that the election was null and
void and both she and Joe Biden would remain in power for at least another
4 years and Biden strongly hinted he will run for a third term despite the
fact that the Constitution forbids it.

John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

lam

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Re: Before Big Bang What?

[Lawrence Crowell]

I do not waste my neural energy on these idle speculations. I do not engage 
in silly ideas of Kardashev civilization types, Dyson spheres, Tipler-like 
cosmo-eschatology and so forth. I suppose those who have reached some 
celebrity status can afford to do this, but in the end it is all stuff we 
might talk about over scotch and cigars.

The only possibility I see is that within the Everettian Many Worlds 
Interpretation all systems are quantum superposed amplitudes, and as such 
have multiple drafts in decoherent sets. So we may have an infinite or near 
infinite number of lives. Quantum interpretations impose ancillary physical 
axioms or postulates that are not provable or demonstrable within quantum 
physics. So I do not particularly make much of any argument along these 
lines.

LC

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 5:50:36 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> I would opt for the concept of an afterlife being plausible via physics, but 
> it sure ain't around to soothe us today! The Religions, as I term it, 
> seek "the keys to the kingdom," as a means to hold over and control the 
> poor peasant. It works on rich peasants too, I will add. You may agree with 
> Gloria Steinem, but honestly, she was not, nor is not, such a brain, 
> especially for knowledge of the sciences. Meaning yeah, she expresses your 
> view, aptly, or why quote her? But for things cosmological, she was never 
> that interested. Never that informed. Let me offer this up for you to 
> utterly reject because you feel it to be utterly rejectable, contemptable, 
> a fraud, a lie, etc,  
>
> This is from physicist Guilio Prisco from 3 years ago. Background. He was 
> a computer guy at CERN and later did the same for the ESA. His peeps in 
> Italy were communists so he wasn't raised in The Church. 
>
> https://turingchurch.net/the-infrared-memory-of-the-universe-hints-at-future-akashic-physics-3f9a072f0ca6
>
> The dude is sharp enough to screen physics papers for items he finds of 
> interest, that I would blindly, ignore. This assembly of essays about the 
> Lectures on the Study of Infrared Structure and Gauge Theory (put together 
> by A. Strominger at Harvard), was also Hawking's last paper. NYT' science 
> writer Dennis Overbye had commented:
>
> "“Cleansed of its abstract mathematics, the paper is an ode to memory, 
> loss and the oldest of human yearnings, the desire for transcendence… Few 
> of us, including Dr. Hawking, ever harbored the hope that solving the 
> information paradox would bring back our parents…”
>
> George Musser had also commented on the publication and ramification.
>
> I will concede that the Harvard guy has zero interest in all this, and 
> having said that, I said, we follow the physics, anyway. Similar 
> explanations have come from Tipler (proven wrong in 1999 Standard Model), 
> and Hans Moravec, (Mind Children & Robot) still standing, that such is not 
> impossible, but that as of today? Forget about it! So, thus, the 
> proclamation that "It's on your permanent record!" from teachers of the 
> past, was no idle threat.  
>
> Here at least, in principle is where the information of the universe goes, 
> including us, for storage. The Database, Supreme. So, where's payoff, you 
> would be correct to ask? A Russian futurist philosopher has come up with 
> this. A purpose for the Dyson sphere. I would conclude that this project 
> will require a large budget and is quite long term. 
>
> https://bigthink.com/hard-science/dyson-spheres/
>
> I mean, if this holds together, it may be one of the goals of every 
> intelligent species and providing living space for both the biological and 
> simulated people from the past. I wonder if this could explain The Fermi 
> Paradox? Being all settled at home, chatting away in Virch? Where might we 
> look for such a real estate venture? I suggest based on their longevity, 
> that red dwarf stars will be a tasty target because though meager in power 
> compared to the sun, these suckers last 2-10 trillion years, if the 
> astronomers are correct?
>
> Well, there's a Go for you. It's basically not a What Would Jesus Do, but 
> instead a How would Jesus do it?? 
>
> For me, you'd need not to be "Saved", but rather you are being saved, as 
> in RAID 5,000,000. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brent Meeker 
> To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Sun, Jul 3, 2022 4:33 pm
> Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What?
>
> "It's an incredible con job when you think of it, to believe something now 
> in exchange for life after death. Even corporations with all their reward 
> systems don't try to make it posthumous."
>  Gloria Steinem
>
> On 7/3/2022 5:42 AM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>
> There was no Adam. The story of Adam and Eve etc. is pure myth. It is all 
> a big pigeon drop scam. The pigeon drop scam is where somebody convinces 
> another there is a grand some of money to be had if the person just renders 
> 1/10 that amount. Of course, if the dupe pays 

Re: Before Big Bang What?

[John Clark]

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:43 PM Samiya Illias  wrote:

*> I think a more immediate and useful question is: What is the purpose of
> humans (Adam and his progeny)?*


According to the religious, the purpose of humanity is to praise God
because there is nothing God loves more than an endless 24/7 stream of
uninterrupted flattery. To my mind that makes God seem like a small minded
little twit, I'd expect something a bit less mundane from an omniscient
omnipotent being who created the universe, however even if it's true it
leaves open one question, does God ever ask Himself what His purpose is?
  John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

xtq

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Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

[John Clark]

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 3:05 PM  wrote:

> *My only concern is that were election laws violated in 2020 in enough
> amount to change the election outcome? Donny has had 18 months to serve the
> data up to the populace, and, where's the beef? *


There was never anything that even approximated beef! Trump challenged the
election results in courts more than 60 times, often by judges that he had
appointed, and he lost every single one, in fact most were laughed out of
court. This is consistent with the man's previous behavior, when his
idiotic TV game show failed to win an Emmy Trump claimed the election was
rigged. Every single time he lost a state republican primary election in
2016 Trump claimed the election was rigged. Every single time Bernie
Sanders (who Trump thought he could more easily beat in the general
election) lost a state Democratic  primary election in 2016 Trump claimed
the election was rigged. That's why I publicly predicted even before the
2016 election that he would claim he won in 2020 regardless of the outcome
of the election and that his removal from the Oval Office would be UGLY.
But even I didn't predict that although he won in 2016 he would *STILL*
claim the election was rigged, he insisted he should've won by more. Not
only is he a sore loser he's a sore winner too.

*> Decreeing an election null and void is not the same as signing an
> Executive Order decreeing an election null and void and then ordering
> soldiers to enforce this exec order. *
>

Blah blah blah, yet again you refuse to answer my question. Donald Trump
ordered Mike Pence to become a traitor to the constitution and to the
nation, and to his credit Mike Pence refused to obey. So my question to
you, which I have asked so many times, is would you be happy if the
Biden/Harris ticket lost by a substantial margin both in the electoral
college and the popular vote in 2024 to Donald Trump but on January 6, 2025
Kamala Harris just decreed that the election was null and void and both she
and Joe Biden would remain in power for at least another 4 years and Biden
strongly hinted he will run for a third term despite the fact that the
Constitution forbids it.
John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

wwb


>

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RE: Before Big Bang What?

[Philip Benjamin]

[Philip Benjamin]
Science is about observation, experimentation, rational analysis and logical 
conclusion. The universe as is, is all that can be observed. Scientists have to 
accept with humility the limitations of finite minds to understand and explore 
the invisible and ponder over what is not subject to sense perceptions. Let the 
philosophers do that.
   Theology, unlike pagan religions of the world, is about the REVELATIONS from 
the Theos. The Scriptures of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles make 
unique claim that they are direct REVELATIONS from Adonai (plural) YHWH 
(singular) Elohim (uni-plural). [Abraham was a PAGAN worshipping his own family 
deities.  Only one man/woman in only one nation in one region of the world can 
be chosen to bring forth the ONE final REVELATION. Here the claim of the 
Scriptures of the Prophets & Apostles is that the Almighty is mighty enough to 
be a human zygote planted in a womb (virgin to be clear on the identity) to 
bring forth  the divine in human form (at a particular place Bethlehem as 
promised aforetime), for the precise purpose of cancelling the universal Death 
Sentence (entropy) necessarily imposed on the universe by the vicarious death 
of the Sentencer followed by Resurrection.  Now that is the crux of Mosaic 
sacrifices (types) and Messianic crucifixion (anti-type). That is the crux of 
revelatory Theology also. That does not belong to science, but it belongs to 
scientists also in the same way as it is to ALL-men and women alike. . If it is 
untrue, it does not matter. If it is true, nothing else should matter. 1 + 1 = 
2 is the only truth, but 1 + 1 = 2.000to the nth decimal place is only 
one of infinite lies possible.
Leave that alone. Science has enough and more to meddle with the observable 
universe. It cannot even define what a phone is!! It can only experiment with 
it or on it. Incorrigible pride thy name is human heart!
Philip Benjamin

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 9:20 AM
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
Cc: Lawrence Crowell 
Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What?

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:43 PM Samiya Illias 
mailto:samiyaill...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> I think a more immediate and useful question is: What is the purpose of 
> humans (Adam and his progeny)?

According to the religious, the purpose of humanity is to praise God because 
there is nothing God loves more than an endless 24/7 stream of uninterrupted 
flattery. To my mind that makes God seem like a small minded little twit, I'd 
expect something a bit less mundane from an omniscient omnipotent being who 
created the universe, however even if it's true it leaves open one question, 
does God ever ask Himself what His purpose is?
  John K Clark
.

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Re: Before Big Bang What?

[John Clark]

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 4:14 PM Philip Benjamin 
wrote:

*>  unlike pagan religions of the world* [blah blah]


I don't get it, every post from you is about pagans, but pagans are almost
as dull and downright silly as Christians and Muslims.
John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

aad





>

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Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Decreeing an election null and void is not the same as signing an Executive 
Order decreeing an election null and void and then ordering soldiers to enforce 
this exec order. My only concern is that were election laws violated in 2020 in 
enough amount to change the election outcome? Donny has had 18 months to serve 
the data up to the populace, and, where's the beef? 
The Syria withdrawal barely made the news, but the Afghan human made disaster 
was for everyone to see in the world, including Putin. Whatever the Russians 
wanted, they ain't getting it now from any nation in Europe because all the 
Russians are good at is slaughtering civilians. Don was better, then Joey, but 
he was lousy at picking people or immediately has a hostile attitude with those 
he hires, always. This is known as a character flaw. That is not how either of 
us would run things but we're 210 millionth in line to the Throne anyway. 


-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: spudboy...@aol.com
Cc: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 7:57 am
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 1:43 AM  wrote:


> JC, for El Trumpo, my tears have all dried and I have moved on as we all must.

I wish I could stop talking about Trump but I can't because he has not reached 
room temperature and I;m sure he's going to run again in 2024. And people like 
you are going to vote for him again even though he has proven himself to be a 
far worse traitor than Benedict Arnold.   
> Trump did fight Putin's mercs in Syria in 2018,

This is the first sentence of an article about that in the December 19 2018 
issue of the New York Times:  
 "President Trump has ordered the withdrawal of 2,000 American troops from 
Syria, bringing a sudden end to a military campaign that largely vanquished the 
Islamic State but ceding a strategically vital country to Russia and Iran."
> The Don wouldn't have done a withdrawal from Jihad land without prepping 
>properly,
Prepping properly? The US had been in Afghanistan for 20 goddamn years, how 
much more "prepping" do they need? 


>  It is hard to believe that Vlad really feared NATO.

Then why does Putin always make a big fuss every time a new country decides to 
join NATO?  I know that you like me are not a big fan of communism so consider 
this, NATO is the reason all of Europe didn't become communistic, it is the 
only reason Stalan's tanks didn't roll as far west as the Atlantic in the early 
1950s, or even the late 1940s. And have things really changed all that much, 
Putin's Russia is smaller than the old USSR but other than that do you see any 
real improvement? The USSR hadn't started a war in Europe as large as Putin's 
Ukrainian war since 1939 when the USSR invaded Finland, which is about to 
become a NATO member I might add.  But Trump says "NATO is obsolete, because it 
was designed many, many years ago, it is obsolete and a relic of the Cold War". 
Trump  said the US shouldn't help Montenegro if it was attacked even though 
Montenegro is a NATO ally and we promised that we would, but to be fair Trump 
is such an ignoramus he probably didn't even know Montenegro is a NATO ally. 
However Trump did know Germany was part of NATO and he said  "Germany owes vast 
sums of money to NATO" but like most things that come out of his piehole that 
is a complete lie, it doesn't. 
> El Donaldo complained that "Germany will just end up being a servant state of 
> Putin."

That's nothing new, every president since Bill Clinton has said the same thing, 
if not about Putin about Russia.  
I'll conclude by asking a question I've asked many times before but you have 
never answered, I'm sure you're not gonna answer this time either but I'm gonna 
ask it anyway because it's goddamn important! Would you be happy if the 
Biden/Harris ticket lost by a substantial margin both in the electoral college 
and the popular vote in 2024 to Donald Trump but on January 6, 2025 Kamala 
Harris just decreed that the election was null and void and both she and Joe 
Biden would remain in power for at least another 4 years and Biden strongly 
hinted he will run for a third term despite the fact that the Constitution 
forbids it.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolislam

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Re: Before Big Bang What?

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

You must be true to yourself, and if you are bored shitless, with such 
speculation of application of the physics we know, so be it! The Hugh Everett 
thing is so fascinating in itself, that it basically, if there ever a scintilla 
of evidence, this would itself change civilization and religion (and that's no 
lie!). I am not sure how such a global culture would change but change it 
would. Thanks for the physics insight, much appreciated, LC. 
For me interestingly enough, physicist and scifi writer Greg Benford wrote the 
novel REWRITE, based on Everett's many worlds and the protagonist is a man who 
keeps getting 're-born' on his 16rh birthday, every time he dies. To not spoil 
the plot, because he always dies as a middle aged man, he is able to ultimately 
change history. He is not alone in his journey. 
Much Thanks!


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 8:11 am
Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What?

I do not waste my neural energy on these idle speculations. I do not engage in 
silly ideas of Kardashev civilization types, Dyson spheres, Tipler-like 
cosmo-eschatology and so forth. I suppose those who have reached some celebrity 
status can afford to do this, but in the end it is all stuff we might talk 
about over scotch and cigars.

The only possibility I see is that within the Everettian Many Worlds 
Interpretation all systems are quantum superposed amplitudes, and as such have 
multiple drafts in decoherent sets. So we may have an infinite or near infinite 
number of lives. Quantum interpretations impose ancillary physical axioms or 
postulates that are not provable or demonstrable within quantum physics. So I 
do not particularly make much of any argument along these lines.

LC

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 5:50:36 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

I would opt for the concept of an afterlife being plausible via physics, but it 
sure ain't around to soothe us today! The Religions, as I term it, seek "the 
keys to the kingdom," as a means to hold over and control the poor peasant. It 
works on rich peasants too, I will add. You may agree with Gloria Steinem, but 
honestly, she was not, nor is not, such a brain, especially for knowledge of 
the sciences. Meaning yeah, she expresses your view, aptly, or why quote her? 
But for things cosmological, she was never that interested. Never that 
informed. Let me offer this up for you to utterly reject because you feel it to 
be utterly rejectable, contemptable, a fraud, a lie, etc, 
This is from physicist Guilio Prisco from 3 years ago. Background. He was a 
computer guy at CERN and later did the same for the ESA. His peeps in Italy 
were communists so he wasn't raised in The Church. 
https://turingchurch.net/the-infrared-memory-of-the-universe-hints-at-future-akashic-physics-3f9a072f0ca6
The dude is sharp enough to screen physics papers for items he finds of 
interest, that I would blindly, ignore. This assembly of essays about the 
Lectures on the Study of Infrared Structure and Gauge Theory (put together by 
A. Strominger at Harvard), was also Hawking's last paper. NYT' science writer 
Dennis Overbye had commented:
"“Cleansed of its abstract mathematics, the paper is an ode to memory, loss and 
the oldest of human yearnings, the desire for transcendence… Few of us, 
including Dr. Hawking, ever harbored the hope that solving the information 
paradox would bring back our parents…”
George Musser had also commented on the publication and ramification.
I will concede that the Harvard guy has zero interest in all this, and having 
said that, I said, we follow the physics, anyway. Similar explanations have 
come from Tipler (proven wrong in 1999 Standard Model), and Hans Moravec, (Mind 
Children & Robot) still standing, that such is not impossible, but that as of 
today? Forget about it! So, thus, the proclamation that "It's on your permanent 
record!" from teachers of the past, was no idle threat.  
Here at least, in principle is where the information of the universe goes, 
including us, for storage. The Database, Supreme. So, where's payoff, you would 
be correct to ask? A Russian futurist philosopher has come up with this. A 
purpose for the Dyson sphere. I would conclude that this project will require a 
large budget and is quite long term. 
https://bigthink.com/hard-science/dyson-spheres/

I mean, if this holds together, it may be one of the goals of every intelligent 
species and providing living space for both the biological and simulated people 
from the past. I wonder if this could explain The Fermi Paradox? Being all 
settled at home, chatting away in Virch? Where might we look for such a real 
estate venture? I suggest based on their longevity, that red dwarf stars will 
be a tasty target because though meager in power compared to the sun, these 
suckers last 2-10 trillion years, if the astronomers are correct?
Well, there's a Go for you. It's basically not a What Would Jesus Do, but 
instead a 

Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

[Telmo Menezes]

Am Mo, 4. Jul 2022, um 07:43, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:
> Trumpo bitched at Fraulein Docktor Merkel who was big into Putin and she 
> didn't have anything to say when

I guess the circus is in town but not everyone is a clown.

> El Donaldo complained that *"Germany will just end up being a servant state 
> of Putin."* 

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The LHC is back

[John Clark]

After being off-line for several years to be upgraded the LHC is back and
started doing science today. The protons in its beam are at 13.6 trillion
electron volts, only a modest increase over what it was before but the
proton density will be 20 times what it was when it discovered the Higgs
and the sensitivity of its detectors has been improved making it easier to
detect rare events.

Large Hadron Collider revs up to unprecedented energy level


John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis

elw

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Re: Before Big Bang What?

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Understood, LC, but even statistically this'd be a one-off even, maybe 13.7 
billion years ago. An event that occurred after trillions or quadrillions of 
relative terms. Yes, you've cast your physics pearls before this swine, and so 
be it. So, I will scratch off the BB. 
Now if the Smolin auto-didactic paper holds up, we still seemingly have another 
cosmic mystery to solve. In any case this study may not have a budget to pursue 
to this inquiry. It was funded by Microsoft last year, so who knows?
Happy 4th LC


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 7:51 am
Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What?

No Boltzmann brains (BBs). The instability of the de Sitter (dS) vacuum makes 
the probability for BBs very small. The problem with the BB is that if they 
exist we may not know whether we are BBs, or that I am a BB and all other 
people are phantasms of my mind. The problem is that if the dS vacuum were 
eternal the integrated probability for a BB is one, they are necessary. But, it 
the dS vacuum has finite time and is unstable, even if it can remain for 
10^{10^{10^{10}}} years this reduces the probability of a BB from unity or one 
to near zero.
LC

On Sunday, July 3, 2022 at 4:51:22 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

It may not be "God" but it may, more significantly, be mind. 
If its a Boltzmann Brain who woke with false memories, and was the only BB in 
quintillions of years to successfully open and sustain itself (as has been 
proposed) I say, who am I to be disinterested, disrespectful, or reject it, 
him, her, them? The point would be, that it seems interested in what you do for 
a living, what an astrophysicist does to earn a paycheck, and this may be 
sufficient. It reacts and responds, apparently. This may also have impact on 
how fast information can actually travel, or what detects what some people are 
doing? 
I won't get into the probability that UFO's is the BB is  interacting with 
subjects by giving us an anthropomorphic symbolism to gaze upon? My feeling is 
that people are more likely lying to get attention, than anything else, because 
lying works in so many other areas of human activity, so why not simply lie? 
Ball lightning created by piezo-electric geology thus becomes an alien 
intervention. 
I am primate-enough to enjoy the idea of a big mind, so for "God" us beggars 
can't be choosers, especially if He's got the time and interest to get things 
mended? For those who need this idea like a fork to the eye, I say, wonderful. 
Glad to hear that you have your emotions whipped into shape, because it sounds 
very healthy. No Problemo. Rock on! 



-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Sun, Jul 3, 2022 8:52 am
Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What?

I remember seeing this paper. I have not yet read it. I will say though that at 
a point where a system ceases to be Markovian, such as white noise or with 
Gaussian distribution of signals that are not correlated, and becomes 
sub-Markovian that you have the prospect for fluctuations or memory to 
propagate into the future. Fluctuations now have kurtosis of some sort. This is 
actually how evolution works. This is though not something that I think 
automatically points to some sort of God.
LC

On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 7:55:20 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

To my way of thinking, God as an answer, gets in scientists path to 
understanding how things work or interact? If God is an answer for everything, 
no wonder the Muslim's Insh Allah (God wills it) satisfied research inquiry. If 
God wills it and is the cause for everything than why study it? On the Udder 
Hand sez da Kozmic Kow, "If the Buddha stands in your path, strike him down."  
Meaning, if you got a better way, friend, don't let me stop you. 
For myself? I always seek what researchers say first most of time, because its 
less vague than the religious stuff and thus, more precise. 
Having said that there are a couple of stumble upons, one of which I present 
here. https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.03902

With this LC, you'll get to attack Smollin which may or may not be worth your 
while? But it is not the standard model of cosmology either and lends itself 
nicely, to the idea of a "big mind." It may not please the traditional 
religions, but who says they get to have all the fun? In religiosity, it seems 
closer to Brahma in the Hindu faith. Or, perhaps, the fellow Heston chatted 
with in 10 Com. "The light of eternal mind." Pretty good for 1956. Also, as I 
have noted before, if this is the fact, then you, as an atheist are in this 
fashion are one of the "holiest of humanity," because you study what the big 
mind does, up close. It may enjoy what you're doing as opposed to grubby, snot 
covered peasants, such as myself, busy claiming that "me neighbors a witch 
cause me pig gave sour milk!" 
As always suspicious of me neighbor,Spud (sniffling)

-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 

FW: Before Big Bang What?

[Philip Benjamin]

Typo: photon, not phone. Philip

From: general_the...@googlegroups.com 
mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of Philip Benjamin Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 3:15 PM
everything-list@googlegroups.com  
Subject: RE: Before Big Bang What?
[Philip Benjamin]
Science is about observation, experimentation, rational analysis and logical 
conclusion. The universe as is, is all that can be observed. Scientists have to 
accept with humility the limitations of finite minds to understand and explore 
the invisible and ponder over what is not subject to sense perceptions. Let the 
philosophers do that.
   Theology, unlike pagan religions of the world, is about the REVELATIONS from 
the Theos. The Scriptures of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles make 
unique claim that they are direct REVELATIONS from Adonai (plural) YHWH 
(singular) Elohim (uni-plural). [Abraham was a PAGAN worshipping his own family 
deities.  Only one man/woman in only one nation in one region of the world can 
be chosen to bring forth the ONE final REVELATION. Here the claim of the 
Scriptures of the Prophets & Apostles is that the Almighty is mighty enough to 
be a human zygote planted in a womb (virgin to be clear on the identity) to 
bring forth  the divine in human form (at a particular place Bethlehem as 
promised aforetime), for the precise purpose of cancelling the universal Death 
Sentence (entropy) necessarily imposed on the universe by the vicarious death 
of the Sentencer followed by Resurrection.  Now that is the crux of Mosaic 
sacrifices (types) and Messianic crucifixion (anti-type). That is the crux of 
revelatory Theology also. That does not belong to science, but it belongs to 
scientists also in the same way as it is to ALL-men and women alike. . If it is 
untrue, it does not matter. If it is true, nothing else should matter. 1 + 1 = 
2 is the only truth, but 1 + 1 = 2.000to the nth decimal place is only 
one of infinite lies possible.
Leave that alone. Science has enough and more to meddle with the observable 
universe. It cannot even define what a phone is!! It can only experiment with 
it or on it. Incorrigible pride thy name is human heart!
Philip Benjamin

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> On 
Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 9:20 AM
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>>
Cc: Lawrence Crowell 
mailto:goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: Before Big Bang What?

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:43 PM Samiya Illias 
mailto:samiyaill...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> I think a more immediate and useful question is: What is the purpose of 
> humans (Adam and his progeny)?

According to the religious, the purpose of humanity is to praise God because 
there is nothing God loves more than an endless 24/7 stream of uninterrupted 
flattery. To my mind that makes God seem like a small minded little twit, I'd 
expect something a bit less mundane from an omniscient omnipotent being who 
created the universe, however even if it's true it leaves open one question, 
does God ever ask Himself what His purpose is?
  John K Clark
.
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Re: Before Big Bang What?

[Samiya Illias]

Acknowledging the Perfection of our Lord 

No change should there be in the creation of Allah [Quran 30:30] 
Mission of the Messengers - XXIX  




Abstract 
To do تَسْبِيحَ of Allah means to acknowledge, declare, and/or celebrate that 
Allah is absolutely perfect. Allah creates perfectly and governs excellently. 
We humans need to acknowledge and appreciate this fact, and consequently submit 
to The Right Religion (الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ). 


Full Text 
The Quran informs us that those who believe and do righteous deeds / acts of 
reform (آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ), their Lord will guide them, due to 
their faith, to the Gardens of bounty, bliss, delight, pleasure, et al 
(جَنَّاتِ النَّعِيمِ). Upon experiencing the perfection of the Gardens of the 
Hereafter, they will exclaim:  
https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2018/10/acknowledging-perfection-of-our-lord.html
 

> On 04-Jul-2022, at 7:20 PM, John Clark  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:43 PM Samiya Illias  wrote:
>> 
>> > I think a more immediate and useful question is: What is the purpose of 
>> > humans (Adam and his progeny)?
> 
> According to the religious, the purpose of humanity is to praise God because 
> there is nothing God loves more than an endless 24/7 stream of uninterrupted 
> flattery. To my mind that makes God seem like a small minded little twit, I'd 
> expect something a bit less mundane from an omniscient omnipotent being who 
> created the universe, however even if it's true it leaves open one question, 
> does God ever ask Himself what His purpose is?  
>   John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis
> xtq
> 
> 
>  
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: Before Big Bang What?

[Lawrence Crowell]

What utter piffle. Your statement about 1 + 1 is ridiculous. The number 
.9... endlessly repeating is equal to 1. Why? well write this as

x = .9 + .09 + .009 + .0009 + ...

and then

x = .9 + .1( .9 + .09 + .009 + .0009 + ...) = .9 + .1x

so then

.9x = .9 > x = 1

Don't you have anything of greater intellectual depth to actually think 
about?

LC

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 3:14:11 PM UTC-5 medinuclear wrote:

> [*Philip Benjamin*]
>
> Science is about observation, experimentation, rational analysis and 
> logical conclusion. The universe *as is*, is all that can be observed. 
> Scientists have to accept with humility the limitations of finite minds to 
> understand and explore the invisible and ponder over what is not subject to 
> sense perceptions. Let the philosophers do that. 
>
>Theology, unlike pagan religions of the world, is about the REVELATIONS 
> from the Theos. The Scriptures of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles 
> make unique claim that they are direct REVELATIONS from *Adonai (plural) 
> YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural*). [Abraham was a PAGAN worshipping 
> his own family deities.  Only one man/woman in only one nation in one 
> region of the world can be chosen to bring forth the ONE final REVELATION. 
> Here the claim of the Scriptures of the Prophets & Apostles is that the 
> Almighty is mighty enough to be a human zygote planted in a womb (virgin to 
> be clear on the identity) to bring forth  the divine in human form (at a 
> particular place Bethlehem as promised aforetime), for the precise purpose 
> of cancelling the universal Death Sentence (entropy) necessarily imposed on 
> the universe by the vicarious death of the Sentencer followed by 
> Resurrection.  Now that is the crux of Mosaic sacrifices (types) and 
> Messianic crucifixion (anti-type). That is the crux of revelatory Theology 
> also. That does not belong to science, but it belongs to scientists also in 
> the same way as it is to ALL—men and women alike. . If it is untrue, it 
> does not matter. If it is true, nothing else should matter. 1 + 1 = 2 is 
> the only truth, but 1 + 1 = 2.000….to the nth decimal place is only one 
> of infinite lies possible. 
>
> Leave that alone. Science has enough and more to meddle with the 
> observable universe. It cannot even define what a phone is!! It can only 
> experiment with it or on it. Incorrigible pride thy name is human heart! 
>
> *Philip Benjamin   *  
>
>  
>
> *From:* everyth...@googlegroups.com  *On 
> Behalf Of *John Clark
> *Sent:* Monday, July 4, 2022 9:20 AM
> *To:* 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
> *Cc:* Lawrence Crowell 
> *Subject:* Re: Before Big Bang What?
>
>  
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:43 PM Samiya Illias  wrote:
>
>  
>
> *> **I think a more immediate and useful question is: What is the purpose 
> of humans (Adam and his progeny)?*
>
>  
>
> According to the religious, the purpose of humanity is to praise God 
> because there is nothing God loves more than an endless 24/7 stream of 
> uninterrupted flattery. To my mind that makes God seem like a small minded 
> little twit, I'd expect something a bit less mundane from an omniscient 
> omnipotent being who created the universe, however even if it's true it 
> leaves open one question, does God ever ask Himself what His purpose is?  
>
>   John K Clark   
>
> .
>

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Re: Before Big Bang What?

[Brent Meeker]

On 7/4/2022 7:27 PM, Lawrence Crowell wrote:


[*Philip Benjamin*]

Science is about observation, experimentation, rational analysis and 
logical conclusion. The universe /as is/, is all that can be observed. 
Scientists have to accept with humility the limitations of finite 
minds to understand and explore the invisible and ponder over what is 
not subject to sense perceptions. Let the philosophers do that.


   Theology, unlike pagan religions of the world, is about the 
REVELATIONS from the Theos. The Scriptures of the Patriarchs, Prophets 
and the Apostles make unique claim that they are direct REVELATIONS 
from */Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural/*).


The same "unique" claim made for  Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, Ahura 
Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, 
Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, 
Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian, Bacchus, Balder, Bast, Bellona, 
Bergelmir, Bes, Bixia Yuanjin, Bragi, Brahma, Brent, Brigit, Camaxtli, 
Ceres, Ceridwen, Cernunnos, Chac, Chalchiuhtlicue, Charun, Chemosh, 
Cheng-huang, Clapton, Cybele, Dagon, Damkina (Dumkina), Davlin, Dawn, 
Demeter, Diana, Di Cang, Dionysus, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Eos, Epona, 
Ereskigal, Farbauti, Fenrir, Forseti, Fortuna, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, 
Gaia, Ganesha, Ganga, Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Geong Si, Guanyin, Hades, 
Hanuman, Hathor, Hecate (Hekate), Helios, Heng-o (Chang-o), Hephaestus, 
Hera, Hermes, Hestia, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori, Horus, Hotei, Huitzilopochtli, 
Hsi-Wang-Mu, Hygeia, Inanna, Inti, Iris, Ishtar, Isis, Ixtab, Izanaki, 
Izanami, Jesus, Juno, Jehovah, Jupiter, Juturna, Kagutsuchi, Kartikeya, 
Khepri, Ki, Kingu, Kinich Ahau, Kishar, Krishna, Kuan-yin, Kukulcan, 
Kvasir, Lakshmi, Leto, Liza, Loki, Lugh, Luna, Magna Mater, Maia, 
Marduk, Mars, Mazu, Medb, Mercury, Mimir, Min, Minerva, Mithras, 
Morrigan, Mot, Mummu, Muses, Nammu, Nanna, Nanna (Norse), Nanse, Neith, 
Nemesis, Nephthys, Neptune, Nergal, Ninazu, Ninhurzag, Nintu, Ninurta, 
Njord, Nugua, Nut, Odin, Ohkuninushi, Ohyamatsumi, Orgelmir, Osiris, 
Ostara, Pan, Parvati, Phaethon, Phoebe, Phoebus Apollo, Pilumnus, 
Poseidon, Quetzalcoatl, Rama, Re, RheaSabazius, Sarasvati, Selene, 
Shiva, Seshat, Seti (Set), Shamash, Shapsu, Shen Yi, Shiva, Shu, 
Si-Wang-Mu, Sin, Sirona, Sol, Surya, Susanoh, Tawaret, Tefnut, 
Tezcatlipoca, Thanatos, Thor, Thoth, Tiamat, Tianhou, Tlaloc, Tonatiuh, 
Toyo-Uke-Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, Vediovis, Venus, Vesta, Vishnu, 
Volturnus, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, Xochipilli, Xochiquetzal, Yam, 
Yarikh, YHWH, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil and Zeus.


"Theology: An effort to explain the unknowable
by putting it into terms of the not worth knowing"
    --- H.L. Mencken

"If atheists repudiate traditional faith it is not only because this 
faith is in contrast with the affirmations of believers themselves, with 
reason that denies the idea of God, but because they have understood 
that false dogmas go against true morality, against the social demands 
of the world we live in. The belief in God is not only a simple 
illusion, a purely theoretical error. It misrepresents the practical 
direction of life by orienting it in a chimerical direction. It goes 
against the social realty, against the essential needs of mankind which 
are the primary motor and the ultimate goal of every morality".

    --- Prosper Alfaric, professor of theology at the Sorbonne

How thoughtful of God to arrange matters so that, wherever you are born,
the local religion always turns out to be the true one.
 --- Richard Dawkins

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Re: Before Big Bang What?

[Brent Meeker]

Judaism at least teaches that one should do good because it's a virtue.  
No for rewards either in life or afterward.


Brent

On 7/4/2022 5:22 PM, Samiya Illias wrote:



  Acknowledging the Perfection of our Lord


No change should there be in the creation of Allah [Quran 30:30]
*Mission of the Messengers 
 - XXIX *





*/Abstract /*
/To do***تَسْبِيحَ *of Allah means to acknowledge, declare, and/or 
celebrate that Allah is absolutely perfect. //Allah creates perfectly 
and governs excellently. We humans need to acknowledge and appreciate 
this fact, and consequently submit to //The Right Religion (الدِّينُ 
الْقَيِّمُ). /



*/Full Text /*
/The Quran informs us that those who believe and do righteous deeds / 
acts of reform (آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ), their Lord will 
guide them, due to their faith, to the Gardens of bounty, bliss, 
delight, pleasure, et al (جَنَّاتِ النَّعِيمِ). Upon experiencing the 
perfection of the Gardens of the Hereafter, they will exclaim:/
https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2018/10/acknowledging-perfection-of-our-lord.html 




On 04-Jul-2022, at 7:20 PM, John Clark  wrote:


On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:43 PM Samiya Illias  
wrote:


/> I think a more immediate and useful question is: What is the
purpose of humans (Adam and his progeny)?/


According to the religious, the purpose of humanity is to praise God 
because there is nothing God loves more than an endless 24/7 stream 
of uninterrupted flattery. To my mind that makes God seem like a 
small minded little twit, I'd expect something a bit less 
mundane from an omniscient omnipotent being who created the universe, 
however even if it's true it leaves open one question, does God ever 
ask Himself what His purpose is?
John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis 


xtq


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.

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Re: Before Big Bang What?

[Lawrence Crowell]

All self-referentially declared truth. 

LC

On Monday, July 4, 2022 at 7:22:19 PM UTC-5 Samiya wrote:

> Acknowledging the Perfection of our Lord 
>
> No change should there be in the creation of Allah [Quran 30:30] 
> *Mission of the Messengers 
>  - XXIX * 
>
>
> 
>
>
> *Abstract *
> *To do تَسْبِيحَ of Allah means to acknowledge, declare, and/or celebrate 
> that Allah is absolutely perfect. **Allah creates perfectly and governs 
> excellently. We humans need to acknowledge and appreciate this fact, and 
> consequently submit to **The Right Religion (الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ). *
>
>
> *Full Text *
> *The Quran informs us that those who believe and do righteous deeds / acts 
> of reform (آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ), their Lord will guide them, 
> due to their faith, to the Gardens of bounty, bliss, delight, pleasure, et 
> al (جَنَّاتِ النَّعِيمِ). Upon experiencing the perfection of the Gardens 
> of the Hereafter, they will exclaim:*  
>
> https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2018/10/acknowledging-perfection-of-our-lord.html
>  
>
> On 04-Jul-2022, at 7:20 PM, John Clark  wrote:
>
> 
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:43 PM Samiya Illias  wrote:
>
> *> I think a more immediate and useful question is: What is the purpose of 
>> humans (Adam and his progeny)?*
>
>
> According to the religious, the purpose of humanity is to praise God 
> because there is nothing God loves more than an endless 24/7 stream of 
> uninterrupted flattery. To my mind that makes God seem like a small minded 
> little twit, I'd expect something a bit less mundane from an omniscient 
> omnipotent being who created the universe, however even if it's true it 
> leaves open one question, does God ever ask Himself what His purpose is?  
>   John K ClarkSee what's on my new list at  Extropolis 
> 
> xtq
>
>
>  
>
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> 
> .
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