RE: How do I explain NDRs Question
I use the USPS as my analogy. I do believe when Mr. Postel wrote the original RFC he used the Post Office as his model. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 11:48 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I don't think that the telephone analogy will explain multiple relay hosts/delivery path options nor MX records. -Original Message- From: Chris Jordan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 3:24 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question Telephone analogy again. Once the phone connection is complete, then you might still talk English at one end, and try to talk to someone who only understands Russian at the other end. This type of fully connected but of no use at all can be used to explain the problems with the different layers in the network model, or the difference between SMTP and X.400 when sending e-mail. Cheers, Chris -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 January 2003 04:48 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I've seen some that talk into the receiver and listen to the transmitter. Ed Crowley MCSE+I MVP Technical Consultant hp Services There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Andrey Fyodorov Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:40 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I have seen some non-technical types that like to send telephones flying across the office and smashing into the wall. -Original Message- From: Akerlund, Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:29 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question A nickels worth from the peanut gallery. I have found that a phone number analogy works quite well with the Non-Technical. They can associate with a wrong number, and number not in service, and circuit overloads (all phones lines busy), it's a picture they understand quite well. Plus it is very easy to draw the picture using non-technical terms. Best of luck Scott We may be in an E-Mail world, but phonology seems to be an instinctive trait in humans yet. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange
RE: How do I explain NDRs Question
Hey stop picking on Russians :) -Original Message- From: Chris Jordan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 6:24 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question Telephone analogy again. Once the phone connection is complete, then you might still talk English at one end, and try to talk to someone who only understands Russian at the other end. This type of fully connected but of no use at all can be used to explain the problems with the different layers in the network model, or the difference between SMTP and X.400 when sending e-mail. Cheers, Chris -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 January 2003 04:48 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I've seen some that talk into the receiver and listen to the transmitter. Ed Crowley MCSE+I MVP Technical Consultant hp Services There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Andrey Fyodorov Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:40 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I have seen some non-technical types that like to send telephones flying across the office and smashing into the wall. -Original Message- From: Akerlund, Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:29 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question A nickels worth from the peanut gallery. I have found that a phone number analogy works quite well with the Non-Technical. They can associate with a wrong number, and number not in service, and circuit overloads (all phones lines busy), it's a picture they understand quite well. Plus it is very easy to draw the picture using non-technical terms. Best of luck Scott We may be in an E-Mail world, but phonology seems to be an instinctive trait in humans yet. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: How do I explain NDRs Question
Telephone analogy again. Once the phone connection is complete, then you might still talk English at one end, and try to talk to someone who only understands Russian at the other end. This type of fully connected but of no use at all can be used to explain the problems with the different layers in the network model, or the difference between SMTP and X.400 when sending e-mail. Cheers, Chris -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 January 2003 04:48 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I've seen some that talk into the receiver and listen to the transmitter. Ed Crowley MCSE+I MVP Technical Consultant hp Services There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Andrey Fyodorov Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:40 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I have seen some non-technical types that like to send telephones flying across the office and smashing into the wall. -Original Message- From: Akerlund, Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:29 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question A nickels worth from the peanut gallery. I have found that a phone number analogy works quite well with the Non-Technical. They can associate with a wrong number, and number not in service, and circuit overloads (all phones lines busy), it's a picture they understand quite well. Plus it is very easy to draw the picture using non-technical terms. Best of luck Scott We may be in an E-Mail world, but phonology seems to be an instinctive trait in humans yet. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How do I explain NDRs Question
I don't think that the telephone analogy will explain multiple relay hosts/delivery path options nor MX records. -Original Message- From: Chris Jordan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 3:24 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question Telephone analogy again. Once the phone connection is complete, then you might still talk English at one end, and try to talk to someone who only understands Russian at the other end. This type of fully connected but of no use at all can be used to explain the problems with the different layers in the network model, or the difference between SMTP and X.400 when sending e-mail. Cheers, Chris -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 January 2003 04:48 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I've seen some that talk into the receiver and listen to the transmitter. Ed Crowley MCSE+I MVP Technical Consultant hp Services There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Andrey Fyodorov Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:40 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I have seen some non-technical types that like to send telephones flying across the office and smashing into the wall. -Original Message- From: Akerlund, Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:29 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question A nickels worth from the peanut gallery. I have found that a phone number analogy works quite well with the Non-Technical. They can associate with a wrong number, and number not in service, and circuit overloads (all phones lines busy), it's a picture they understand quite well. Plus it is very easy to draw the picture using non-technical terms. Best of luck Scott We may be in an E-Mail world, but phonology seems to be an instinctive trait in humans yet. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin
Re: How do I explain NDRs Question
I always tell my wife to get the phone, she's my MX record. Of course if I keep that up, she may soon be an EX record. - Original Message - From: Dupler, Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Exchange Discussions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 12:48 PM Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I don't think that the telephone analogy will explain multiple relay hosts/delivery path options nor MX records. -Original Message- From: Chris Jordan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 3:24 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question Telephone analogy again. Once the phone connection is complete, then you might still talk English at one end, and try to talk to someone who only understands Russian at the other end. This type of fully connected but of no use at all can be used to explain the problems with the different layers in the network model, or the difference between SMTP and X.400 when sending e-mail. Cheers, Chris -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 January 2003 04:48 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I've seen some that talk into the receiver and listen to the transmitter. Ed Crowley MCSE+I MVP Technical Consultant hp Services There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Andrey Fyodorov Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:40 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I have seen some non-technical types that like to send telephones flying across the office and smashing into the wall. -Original Message- From: Akerlund, Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:29 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question A nickels worth from the peanut gallery. I have found that a phone number analogy works quite well with the Non-Technical. They can associate with a wrong number, and number not in service, and circuit overloads (all phones lines busy), it's a picture they understand quite well. Plus it is very easy to draw the picture using non-technical terms. Best of luck Scott We may be in an E-Mail world, but phonology seems to be an instinctive trait in humans yet. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives
RE: How do I explain NDRs Question
I don't think that the telephone analogy will explain multiple relay hosts/delivery path options nor MX records. Hmm... Phone book is DNS (where you look up the MX record.) -Kevin _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: How do I explain NDRs Question
Call forwarding (more or less.. Ok.. Less) On 1/7/03 11:48, Dupler, Craig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't think that the telephone analogy will explain multiple relay hosts/delivery path options nor MX records. -Original Message- From: Chris Jordan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 3:24 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question Telephone analogy again. Once the phone connection is complete, then you might still talk English at one end, and try to talk to someone who only understands Russian at the other end. This type of fully connected but of no use at all can be used to explain the problems with the different layers in the network model, or the difference between SMTP and X.400 when sending e-mail. Cheers, Chris -Original Message- From: Ed Crowley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 07 January 2003 04:48 To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I've seen some that talk into the receiver and listen to the transmitter. Ed Crowley MCSE+I MVP Technical Consultant hp Services There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Andrey Fyodorov Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:40 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I have seen some non-technical types that like to send telephones flying across the office and smashing into the wall. -Original Message- From: Akerlund, Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:29 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question A nickels worth from the peanut gallery. I have found that a phone number analogy works quite well with the Non-Technical. They can associate with a wrong number, and number not in service, and circuit overloads (all phones lines busy), it's a picture they understand quite well. Plus it is very easy to draw the picture using non-technical terms. Best of luck Scott We may be in an E-Mail world, but phonology seems to be an instinctive trait in humans yet. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List
RE: How do I explain NDRs Question
That's not a half bad suggestion, really. I need to add that to my document everything repository. Once I get past my too-lazy phase. -- Roger D. Seielstad - MCSE Sr. Systems Administrator Inovis - Formerly Harbinger and Extricity Atlanta, GA -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 12:45 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How do I explain NDRs Question
I have seen some non-technical types that like to send telephones flying across the office and smashing into the wall. -Original Message- From: Akerlund, Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:29 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question A nickels worth from the peanut gallery. I have found that a phone number analogy works quite well with the Non-Technical. They can associate with a wrong number, and number not in service, and circuit overloads (all phones lines busy), it's a picture they understand quite well. Plus it is very easy to draw the picture using non-technical terms. Best of luck Scott We may be in an E-Mail world, but phonology seems to be an instinctive trait in humans yet. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How do I explain NDRs Question
I've seen some that talk into the receiver and listen to the transmitter. Ed Crowley MCSE+I MVP Technical Consultant hp Services There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Andrey Fyodorov Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:40 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question I have seen some non-technical types that like to send telephones flying across the office and smashing into the wall. -Original Message- From: Akerlund, Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:29 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: How do I explain NDRs Question A nickels worth from the peanut gallery. I have found that a phone number analogy works quite well with the Non-Technical. They can associate with a wrong number, and number not in service, and circuit overloads (all phones lines busy), it's a picture they understand quite well. Plus it is very easy to draw the picture using non-technical terms. Best of luck Scott We may be in an E-Mail world, but phonology seems to be an instinctive trait in humans yet. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: How do I explain NDRs Question
A nickels worth from the peanut gallery. I have found that a phone number analogy works quite well with the Non-Technical. They can associate with a wrong number, and number not in service, and circuit overloads (all phones lines busy), it's a picture they understand quite well. Plus it is very easy to draw the picture using non-technical terms. Best of luck Scott We may be in an E-Mail world, but phonology seems to be an instinctive trait in humans yet. -Original Message- From: Dupler, Craig [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 9:45 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: How do I explain NDRs Question I did a delete of the thread and then thought that perhaps the data should be expanded. But, note that the comments including Daniel's were right on. Explaining how mail delivery works to non-experts is not easy. It involves explaining address resolution both within NT domains and in the DNS world. It also involves explaining the role of relay hosts and any address rewriting that is going on. For most people, words are not going to cut it. Years ago our Exchange team faced the same problem and developed a system of very simple charts that show a check list of each system or handshake that has to occur, and then a separate chart explaining exactly how each one works, packet by packet. They called these happy charts. Now admittedly, even these are not telling the truth, in that the role of caches in the switches and routers is left out, and it is assumed that things like DNS resolution actually hit the DNS servers every time, but that's a level of complexity (or honesty) that is not really necessary to get your points across. I think you would do well to draw your happy charts. They will make explaining the shorthand a lot easier. My hesitation in mentioning this stems from the fact that it is in the archives maybe a dozen times, but periodic repetition is not a bad thing I guess. _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
