date:20070425

Great responses man, thanks.  Lots to think about.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> > > You discount
> > > my experience -- thats fine. Particularly if you have repeated
> > > personal experience in which no value was gained, and no experience
> > > was occuring.
> > 
> > Since none of us actually experience causation, we build our beliefs
> > around our conclusions from our experiences.  Even MMY makes this
> > critical epistemological distinction that simultaneity is not the same
> > as causation. 
> 
> Causation can be demonstrated statistically -- but thats probably
> beyond common personal practice. Still, while one similtenatity may be
> coincidence, a dozen such, in different contexts, is "common sense"
> causality. How many times do you need to slip in ice to avoid icy
> spots on the walkway in winter? Is that dumb superstition, or
> worldly-wise common sense? If a yagya results in the same experience a
> dozen times, its not that much of a stretch to posit causality.
> Demonstrating in a scientific paper takes more. But we live our lives
> all the time positing causality without statistical proof.
> 
> 
> 
> >  I am not inclined to discount people's reports of subjective
> > experiences since I have had plenty of them myself. It is what we
> > conclude about their value that may distinguish our views.
> 
> My sense of value of yagyas is probablistic. I don't really know their
> effect.  Given the direct experience, I find it plausible, not
> certain, that they could have a wider, deeper, core-level effect.
>  
> 
> > As I said, I don't discount the subjective experience, I reject the
> > physical effect claims.  
> 
> I don't make any firm claims. I simply extraoplate that they may have
> "peaceful effect" beyond "the room".
> 
> >  I don't need an explanation to enjoy
> > it.  If you wanted to charge me $1000 to hear magical music that would
> > cure cancer, I might have a bigger stake in asking questions. 
> 
> OK, but a bit of a strawman relative to my view of yagyas. I am not
> suggesting a $1000 yagya can cure cancer. Or anything like that. 
> 
> > I know
> > a lot of reasons why Delta blues moves me.  It has to do with my
> > values and what I am looking for from music.  I understand why I like
> > it so much.  Some of the reasons are very logical given my personal
> > values and taste.  Art and logic are not in a battle in my life.  They
> > play nicely together.
> 
> I know a lot of reasons why yagyas moves me.  It has to do with my
> values and what I am looking for from yagyas.  I understand why I like
> it so much.  Some of the reasons are very logical given my personal
> values and taste.  Art and logic are not in a battle in my life.  They
> play nicely together. :)
> 
> > But these are areas where falsifiability is not
> > needed.  The only person who cares about my taste is me.  But a claim
> > concerning the outer physical effects of yagyas is an area that
> > requires (for me) more support in how it works for me to take the
> > theory seriously.  So far I am not convinced in its theoretical
> > support or its empirical proof.  I consider it a low probability area
> > so I don't give it much attention.  I think focusing on their outer
> > effects is misguided and misses their real value to people which I
> > will discuss below.
> 
> But these are areas where falsifiability is not
> needed.  The only person who cares about my taste is me.  And since
> the global outer physical effects of yagyas is at a low ranking of my
> values, I am less concerned about absolute proof. The direct
> experience is as real as the effect of delta blues on you. The art and
> pagentry are evident. A global or social effect is plausible, a nice 
> bonus. Since I don't focus primarily or soley on there being possible
> larger and global effects, your issues with yagyas don't appear to
> apply to me. 
> 
>  
> > I have a plausible, and for me satisfying theory of how pujas,
> > meditations and chanting effects my mind.  I do not have a theory that
> > supports a trans personal effect on the world or the physical claims
> > of yagyas done for specific physical effects.  
> 
> I have a loose conceptual framework in which such are plausible. For 
> such speculation on plausible possibilities, no rigourous proof is
> needed.  
> 
> > I do not discount the experiences of others as misguided moodmaking
> > concerning people's subjective effects from these traditional
> > practices.  I do not believe that they are influencing the world in
> > the manor claimed.  
> 
> I am not claiming such. Plausible speculation and musings perhaps.
> 
> >I have participated in yagyas with MMY and outside
> > the movement.  My Vedic wedding was about 5 hours long.  It was a
> > blast.  I got a great rent-a-pundit from one of the DC temples and we
> > threw d

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

2007-04-25 Thread new . morning

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning  wrote:
> > You discount
> > my experience -- thats fine. Particularly if you have repeated
> > personal experience in which no value was gained, and no experience
> > was occuring.
> 
> Since none of us actually experience causation, we build our beliefs
> around our conclusions from our experiences.  Even MMY makes this
> critical epistemological distinction that simultaneity is not the same
> as causation. 

Causation can be demonstrated statistically -- but thats probably
beyond common personal practice. Still, while one similtenatity may be
coincidence, a dozen such, in different contexts, is "common sense"
causality. How many times do you need to slip in ice to avoid icy
spots on the walkway in winter? Is that dumb superstition, or
worldly-wise common sense? If a yagya results in the same experience a
dozen times, its not that much of a stretch to posit causality.
Demonstrating in a scientific paper takes more. But we live our lives
all the time positing causality without statistical proof.

>  I am not inclined to discount people's reports of subjective
> experiences since I have had plenty of them myself. It is what we
> conclude about their value that may distinguish our views.

My sense of value of yagyas is probablistic. I don't really know their
effect.  Given the direct experience, I find it plausible, not
certain, that they could have a wider, deeper, core-level effect.

> As I said, I don't discount the subjective experience, I reject the
> physical effect claims.  

I don't make any firm claims. I simply extraoplate that they may have
"peaceful effect" beyond "the room".

>  I don't need an explanation to enjoy
> it.  If you wanted to charge me $1000 to hear magical music that would
> cure cancer, I might have a bigger stake in asking questions. 

OK, but a bit of a strawman relative to my view of yagyas. I am not
suggesting a $1000 yagya can cure cancer. Or anything like that. 

> I know
> a lot of reasons why Delta blues moves me.  It has to do with my
> values and what I am looking for from music.  I understand why I like
> it so much.  Some of the reasons are very logical given my personal
> values and taste.  Art and logic are not in a battle in my life.  They
> play nicely together.

I know a lot of reasons why yagyas moves me.  It has to do with my
values and what I am looking for from yagyas.  I understand why I like
it so much.  Some of the reasons are very logical given my personal
values and taste.  Art and logic are not in a battle in my life.  They
play nicely together. :)

> But these are areas where falsifiability is not
> needed.  The only person who cares about my taste is me.  But a claim
> concerning the outer physical effects of yagyas is an area that
> requires (for me) more support in how it works for me to take the
> theory seriously.  So far I am not convinced in its theoretical
> support or its empirical proof.  I consider it a low probability area
> so I don't give it much attention.  I think focusing on their outer
> effects is misguided and misses their real value to people which I
> will discuss below.

But these are areas where falsifiability is not
needed.  The only person who cares about my taste is me.  And since
the global outer physical effects of yagyas is at a low ranking of my
values, I am less concerned about absolute proof. The direct
experience is as real as the effect of delta blues on you. The art and
pagentry are evident. A global or social effect is plausible, a nice 
bonus. Since I don't focus primarily or soley on there being possible
larger and global effects, your issues with yagyas don't appear to
apply to me. 

> I have a plausible, and for me satisfying theory of how pujas,
> meditations and chanting effects my mind.  I do not have a theory that
> supports a trans personal effect on the world or the physical claims
> of yagyas done for specific physical effects.  

I have a loose conceptual framework in which such are plausible. For 
such speculation on plausible possibilities, no rigourous proof is
needed.  

> I do not discount the experiences of others as misguided moodmaking
> concerning people's subjective effects from these traditional
> practices.  I do not believe that they are influencing the world in
> the manor claimed.  

I am not claiming such. Plausible speculation and musings perhaps.

>I have participated in yagyas with MMY and outside
> the movement.  My Vedic wedding was about 5 hours long.  It was a
> blast.  I got a great rent-a-pundit from one of the DC temples and we
> threw dung in a fire for hours.  I felt a very heightened state of
> mind.  Having spent years rounding, I was in a perfect frame of mind
> to really enjoy it's effect. 

Cool.

> But I do not believe that we actually
> got the blessings of the planet Ketu despite throwing a lot of dung in
> the fire while hearing ketu namaha thousands o

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

"> On the other hand, if your mouth is full of salt, you cannot taste 
> the sugar."

I've never spoken to you this way Jim.  There is no salt in my mouth.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
> > MMY's use of science is as a marketing language with contempt for 
> it
> > methods.  When I spent a month with David OJ going over the 
> research,
> > I got a front row seat on how the movement approaches science.  
> They
> > are the pharmaceutical company using science as marketing who don't
> > want to hear any counter evidence to their assumptions about its
> > value. There is just too much money at stake.  MMY is not open to 
> the
> > possibility that he is wrong about any of his theories, so he is 
> not
> > actually testing them.  He lacks an openness to falsifiability and
> > this subverts the whole method as a way of getting to truth.  This
> > methodology is fine for a religious believer.  If MMY just stepped 
> up
> > and dropped the scientific marketing front you and I never would 
> have
> > met online.  But in his contempt for the method he misses the
> > opportunity to advance our knowledge in some interesting areas.
> > 
> > I don't get the sense that you approach science the way MMY does 
> Judy.
> >  I think you understand the value of its method better, and are 
> more
> > open to the possibility for theories to be proven wrong so we can 
> get
> > to the ones that can be proven right. I don' think we are so far 
> apart
> > on that issue.
> > 
> > Take pulse diagnosis for one.  It is easy to actually test to see 
> if
> > it has medical merit. But these tests are not being done because 
> the
> > possibility of it not being accurate is unthinkable for the 
> movement.
> >  This approach continues into how TMO approaches yagyas.  They 
> don't
> > care if they are getting the promised results.  I like the approach
> > you seem to be taking with the testing of different ideas for 
> real. 
> > Unfortunately MMY does not approach knowledge with humility. He is 
> a
> > "knower" like Bush is a "decider". And the surety of this identity 
> is
> > both of their downfalls.
> > 
> On the other hand, if your mouth is full of salt, you cannot taste 
> the sugar.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

2007-04-25 Thread lurkernomore20002000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
On the other hand, if your mouth is full of salt, you cannot taste 
> the sugar.

Jim,

I know you think your words and comments are profound and worthy of 
eight posts in a 24 hr. period, but I assure you, they are rather 
boring, and most likely the group will benefit more greatly if you saw 
fit to  STFU  until tomorrow.

lurk
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> MMY's use of science is as a marketing language with contempt for 
it
> methods.  When I spent a month with David OJ going over the 
research,
> I got a front row seat on how the movement approaches science.  
They
> are the pharmaceutical company using science as marketing who don't
> want to hear any counter evidence to their assumptions about its
> value. There is just too much money at stake.  MMY is not open to 
the
> possibility that he is wrong about any of his theories, so he is 
not
> actually testing them.  He lacks an openness to falsifiability and
> this subverts the whole method as a way of getting to truth.  This
> methodology is fine for a religious believer.  If MMY just stepped 
up
> and dropped the scientific marketing front you and I never would 
have
> met online.  But in his contempt for the method he misses the
> opportunity to advance our knowledge in some interesting areas.
> 
> I don't get the sense that you approach science the way MMY does 
Judy.
>  I think you understand the value of its method better, and are 
more
> open to the possibility for theories to be proven wrong so we can 
get
> to the ones that can be proven right. I don' think we are so far 
apart
> on that issue.
> 
> Take pulse diagnosis for one.  It is easy to actually test to see 
if
> it has medical merit. But these tests are not being done because 
the
> possibility of it not being accurate is unthinkable for the 
movement.
>  This approach continues into how TMO approaches yagyas.  They 
don't
> care if they are getting the promised results.  I like the approach
> you seem to be taking with the testing of different ideas for 
real. 
> Unfortunately MMY does not approach knowledge with humility. He is 
a
> "knower" like Bush is a "decider". And the surety of this identity 
is
> both of their downfalls.
> 
On the other hand, if your mouth is full of salt, you cannot taste 
the sugar.

[FairfieldLife] Re:DIFFERENT STATES OF CONS/DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS

2007-04-25 Thread matrixmonitor

---there's no evidence for much of this crap. More succintly, one 
should not confuse what happens to the body (say, ultimate biological 
purification; where the body supposedly dissolves into Light - the 
Rainbow Light Body); with Self-Realization.
 Of course, there is a foundation of tacit assumptions here: in order 
to discuss this issue intelligently, certain agreements are necessary 
without offering proof. 
 Namely, we can assume that (1) Sakyamuni Buddha was Enlightened.
(2) Next, Ramana Maharshi was Enlightened. Obviously, RM must have 
been, since Eckhart Tolle became Enlightened through the inspiration 
of RM.  The poster below seems to hold Tolle in high esteem.
 However, Ramana Maharshi - as the ultimate Source of Neo-Advaitin-
ism - was essentially a Nihilist who believed that the physical body 
was just excess baggage to be gotten rid of.
 The poster below then conflates the concept of bodily Translation 
with Self-Realization.  Bodily Translation (attaining a Rainbow Light 
Body), is a particular Siddhi; not directly connected to 
Enlightenment, although Enlightenment precedes the acquisition of a 
Rainbow Light body in relative time, from the data we have.
 By way of example, Ramana Maharshi was Enlightened (as well as 
Ramakrishna), but these individuals placed no special importance on 
biological purification, and simply died of cancer.  Padma Sambhava 
OTOH, was Enlightened but according to the traditional account, 
attained a Rainbow Light Body.
 I see no evidence that Eckhart Tolle surpasses Ramana Maharshi in 
any category.
 Thus, the previous post is highly speculative and fanciful.  As to 
MMY, I would place his name along with that of SBS as being in the 
category of those "tacitly assumed to be Enlightened", without 
further investigation.
 The fact that MMY seems to have rather oddball viewpoints in topics 
such as economics, and many of his project are not followed through 
to fruition is beside the point of Enlightenment.
 To conclude, some of the properties of evolution the poster alludes 
to are peripheral to Enlightenment, nevertheless quite important in 
the context of further biological evolution.
 In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yeah, i agree.  Is my experience too.
> 
> -Doug in FF
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Lsoma@ wrote:
> >
> >  
> > QUESTIONS FROM THE COLLECTIVE/Lou Valentino
> >  
> > According to MMY the seven states of consciousness can be 
> experienced while  
> > in a physical body. Is this true?
> >  
> > NO. One can have intervals of experiencing TC, CC or GC. Full 
> experience of  
> > CC would mean you have at least entered the sixth dimension after 
> physical 
> > death  or are in the higher levels of the sixth. When we 
transcend 
> we are 
> > experiencing  the upper sixth dimensional vibration. Once you 
have 
> mastered the first 
> > six  dimensions and enter the 7th then you have established a 
> permanent state 
> > of GC.  The seventh dimension is where the masters of the lower 
six 
> planes 
> > reside in GC.  Guru Dev is in the beginning levels of the sixth 
as 
> well as SSRS. 
> > Ammachi  is stepping into the sixth. This is where heart starts 
to 
> take over- 
> >  In the upper fifth to beginning of the sixth. Mother Meera is 
from 
> the  
> > seventh as well as Ekhart Tolle (Very rare). Only three seventh 
> dimensional  
> > masters are in physical embodiment presently GC.
> >  
> > Waking, dreaming and sleeping belong to the third and fourth  
> dimensions. 
> > (Non-Meditators mostly)
> >  
> > TC along with the other three combine experiences of the fifth 
and 
> sixth  
> > dimensions. Bodies are etheric in the fifth and sixth.
> >  
> > GC is the seventh dimension. Golden light is everywhere and you 
are 
> able to  
> > read the Akashic Records
> >  
> > UC is the 12th where the subject and object are no longer 
involved. 
> A  
> > compete merging with the absolute.
> >  
> > Meditators are growing towards CC and as MMY has said in SCI you 
> can have  
> > experiences of  the other states of awareness at different times. 
> UC is  without 
> > a physical or etheric body however.
> >  
> > Is MMY enlightened? NO. Is Deepak Chopra? NO. Bevin Morris? NO, 
NO. 
> John  
> > Hagelin? NO.
> >  
> > MMY is from the third level of the fifth dimension. He is still 
> growing  
> > towards CC. This is the reason why he only see's the structure of 
> his  
> > organization being so important. More important than taking care 
of 
> the soul's  that are 
> > involved in creating his organization. The reason why many leave 
> out of  human 
> > frustration due is lack of attention to personal feelings and a 
> rush  to save 
> > the world without looking who he is stepping on. But, he still is 
> the  best 
> > meditation teacher on this planet. Lsoma.
> >  
> > 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

[FairfieldLife] Maharishi Pundit Vids?

2007-04-25 Thread off_world_beings

Anyone got any Vids of large groups of Maharishi Pundits they care to 
post online. I remember seeing one of a very large group doing a yagya 
in Maharishi Nagar. Doubt if there have been any large groups like 
that since.

Would ba a good historical video

OffWorld

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  
> wrote:
> >
> > On Apr 24, 2007, at 6:29 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> > 
> > > I do know that once ad hominem arguments are used any reasoned,
> > > respectful discussion is over.
> > >
> > Amen, Curtis.  Thanks for this well-reasoned response to Jim's 
> > obnoxious and immature baiting.
> > 
> > Sal
>  
> From where does Sal get the incentive to describe what others 
write 
> as "obnoxious and immature" ? From her own frustrated mind 
obviously. 
> Rather revealing IMHO.


It is protection of the lower self. It is a good thing though that 
Sal and Barry and Vaj and Curtis have remained on this board. And 
all the best to you Nablus!

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 25, 2007, at 9:24 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> > MMY's use of science is as a marketing language with contempt 
for it
> > methods. When I spent a month with David OJ going over the 
research,
> > I got a front row seat on how the movement approaches science. 
They
> > are the pharmaceutical company using science as marketing who 
don't
> > want to hear any counter evidence to their assumptions about its
> > value. There is just too much money at stake. MMY is not open to 
the
> > possibility that he is wrong about any of his theories, so he is 
not
> > actually testing them. He lacks an openness to falsifiability and
> > this subverts the whole method as a way of getting to truth. This
> > methodology is fine for a religious believer. If MMY just 
stepped up
> > and dropped the scientific marketing front you and I never would 
have
> > met online. But in his contempt for the method he misses the
> > opportunity to advance our knowledge in some interesting areas.
> 
> 
> If you could document your insights to this in more detail, I'm 
sure  
> it would be helpful for the people who are still trying to 
extricate  
> themselves from the whole, very seductive "scientific" marketing  
> "we're not a religion" thing. Could you give any more specifics?
> 
> These are very important insights because they have the potential 
to  
> help people gain some missing perspective. Many TMers and 
certainly  
> most TB's believe TM "science" is genuine and sacrosanct. You are  
> presenting an important alternative view with the potential to 
help  
> people still swayed by misrepresentation and outright lies.
>
TM is only as scientific as science is. If you are a scientist it 
may have some value in interesting you. Or if the goal remains 
elusive. On the other hand, experience and experience alone is by 
far the best teacher. You remember the expression, "Believe nothing 
that you hear and only half of what you see"? Think about it.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> On Apr 25, 2007, at 9:14 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> > I have participated in yagyas with MMY and outside
> > the movement.  My Vedic wedding was about 5 hours long.
> 
> Practically longer than the marriage! (sorry, Curtis, couldn't 
> resist.:))
> 
> >  It was a blast.  I got a great rent-a-pundit from one of the DC 
> > temples and we
> > threw dung in a fire for hours.
> 
> Uh, oh, now that explains a lot...
> 
> What I find absolutely fascinating is the way your very reasonable 
and 
> well thought-out responses are causing all sorts of angst and 
almost 
> panic in the ranks of the still-faithful--it's like, they now have 
to 
> "prove" you wrong, or else...something.  Their world might 
collapse, I 
> suppose.  It's not enough for them that *they* believe yagyas have 
some 
> inherent value, whether it's on the level of the physical or not, 
*you* 
> must believe it too.  And if you don't, it's got to be because you 
are 
> still wallowing in ignorance, never experienced them (or haven't 
> experienced enough of them) or just haven't thought it through 
enough, 
> etc.  Their insecurity is so great they must take down (or try to) 
> anyone who feels differently.  Every time I hear one of these 
wacko 
> tirades I thank heavens I am  on the outside looking in.
> 
> Rent-a-pundit--got to be a great Mad Magazine skit in there 
somewhere.
> 
> Sal
>
What *I* find absolutely fascinating is the phenomenon of those who 
once sold out completely to the Movement to now have a negative knee-
jerk reaction whenever someone praises something Maharishi or the 
Movement has come out with. 

As if they cannot concieve of the fact that those supporting 
Maharishi now have been through the blind obedience phase, the 
rejection phase, and have come out the other side stronger than 
ever, not just wishing and hoping for what Maharishi says he is 
doing, or mood-making about it, but as strong as the power of Surya, 
living it. 

Perhaps a way to describe the difference, at least in my terms, is 
that before when I believed in desperation in everything that 
Maharishi said, there was a constant reinforcement needed, at first 
by being close to his Movement, and then later by the thoughts I 
had, constantly reinforced. Now, all of that has blown away. 
Completely gone. I never talk about TM, spiritual practice, or any 
of that outside of this group. And when I do write about it here, my 
voice comes out effortlessly, with a lot of momentum.

So those who automatically categorize any support of Maharishi as 
blind obedience, with hope against hope that the goal may some day 
be reached, have in plain english, MISSED THE F*CKING BUS.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

2007-04-25 Thread lurkernomore20002000

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
  I once went to give the movement a donation, and I ended up having 
to give it to this guy whose name escapes me (he drowned in rapids in 
Central America.)  

Bobby Warren.  His last words supposedly were, "I'm the worlds 
greatest diver"
> 
lurk

P.S.  Great "riff"

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

2007-04-25 Thread Kenny H

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> and yet, because I'm posting here, I'm willing to bet
> that I cannot get a dome badge now.  
> 

Edg

I used to post here fairly often, I was fairly critical about some
things, and, in fact, I wrote letters to both Hagelin and Bevan
telling them that I personally knew of instances where they had slept
with married movement ladies and did not appreciate their lording it
over others while being deceitful themselves, even got responses back
from each of their assistants, and applied to go to Fairfield a few
months ago when the big push was on, and was accepted to the course. 

Kenny H. 



> > 5. Harass citizens' groups
> 
> Ask L.B. about this.  Ask how almost anyone in power in the movement
> can arch an eyebrow and say, "Maharishi wouldn't like that," and
> suddenly, one understands about the subtlety of harassment. 
> 
> > 6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
> 
> I was called on the carpet when I got on the blacklist.  I had to
> explain myself, then I was "released," and of course, I told my story
> to others and the fear spread from that too.  Sigh.
> 
> > 7. Target key individuals
> 
> So many cannot show their faces in Fairfield and have any hope of
> comfort.  Anyone with a dome badge just cannot "be free;" the party
> line is spewed by everyone or they're banned; the targeting of
> individuals is done in the back room, and no one hardly ever is told
> why or how to rectify the situation.
> 
> > 8. Control the press
> 
> Ask L.B. how long his rag was allowed to be freely distributed on
> campus.  Ask anyone who has ever worked on any TM publication if their
> ideas had any chance of being sincerely attended to if it involved,
> you know, suggesting less gold ink, or perhaps marketing might be
> improved by using less photos of groups of smarmy looking Hindus who
> were seemingly on the verge of death but who were on the stage and
> posing as great health practitioners -- whatever, there was no freedom
> to be creative outside the TM box.  
>  
> > 9. Dissent equals treason
> 
> Ask John Lennon why he left India.  Once you cross the movement in
> some serious way, it just becomes clear immediately that a bridge has
> been burned forever, that the movement NEVER was really interested in
> dialog -- only brainwashing and groveling.
> 
> > 10. Suspend the rule of law
> 
> When I'd finally saved up enough "credits" by initiating to get on a
> sidhi course, they said, "All that money's been taken away."  Luckily,
> it was "just then a new policy," and I was able to squeak loudly
> enough to get the course.  But the movement will make up any rule and
> expect that if one is harmed by that that one much just suck it up and
> shut completely up about it, and never, never, never expect the
> movement to respect one for any amount of true believerism on one's
> part.  Ask Chopra.  After he'd gotten so many media cameras to think,
> "Hey, maybe this TM thing works, cuz look here's a very together guy
> espousing it -- with credentials no less" -- the movement dumped him
> like he was radioactive and then tried revisionist history making as
> they erased all traces of his association with TM.
> 
> Edg the Badgeless
>

[FairfieldLife] Re:DIFFERENT STATES OF CONS/DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS

2007-04-25 Thread dhamiltony2k5

Yeah, i agree.  Is my experience too.

-Doug in FF


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  
> QUESTIONS FROM THE COLLECTIVE/Lou Valentino
>  
> According to MMY the seven states of consciousness can be 
experienced while  
> in a physical body. Is this true?
>  
> NO. One can have intervals of experiencing TC, CC or GC. Full 
experience of  
> CC would mean you have at least entered the sixth dimension after 
physical 
> death  or are in the higher levels of the sixth. When we transcend 
we are 
> experiencing  the upper sixth dimensional vibration. Once you have 
mastered the first 
> six  dimensions and enter the 7th then you have established a 
permanent state 
> of GC.  The seventh dimension is where the masters of the lower six 
planes 
> reside in GC.  Guru Dev is in the beginning levels of the sixth as 
well as SSRS. 
> Ammachi  is stepping into the sixth. This is where heart starts to 
take over- 
>  In the upper fifth to beginning of the sixth. Mother Meera is from 
the  
> seventh as well as Ekhart Tolle (Very rare). Only three seventh 
dimensional  
> masters are in physical embodiment presently GC.
>  
> Waking, dreaming and sleeping belong to the third and fourth  
dimensions. 
> (Non-Meditators mostly)
>  
> TC along with the other three combine experiences of the fifth and 
sixth  
> dimensions. Bodies are etheric in the fifth and sixth.
>  
> GC is the seventh dimension. Golden light is everywhere and you are 
able to  
> read the Akashic Records
>  
> UC is the 12th where the subject and object are no longer involved. 
A  
> compete merging with the absolute.
>  
> Meditators are growing towards CC and as MMY has said in SCI you 
can have  
> experiences of  the other states of awareness at different times. 
UC is  without 
> a physical or etheric body however.
>  
> Is MMY enlightened? NO. Is Deepak Chopra? NO. Bevin Morris? NO, NO. 
John  
> Hagelin? NO.
>  
> MMY is from the third level of the fifth dimension. He is still 
growing  
> towards CC. This is the reason why he only see's the structure of 
his  
> organization being so important. More important than taking care of 
the soul's  that are 
> involved in creating his organization. The reason why many leave 
out of  human 
> frustration due is lack of attention to personal feelings and a 
rush  to save 
> the world without looking who he is stepping on. But, he still is 
the  best 
> meditation teacher on this planet. Lsoma.
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fascist TM, in 10 easy steps

2007-04-25 Thread dhamiltony2k5

Hey Om Edg Jedi; with metaphor and simile, gulag and nazis.  This 
piece is quite the progression of recollection and experience put 
together.  A lot of truth in it.

Thanks for the perspective.  i appreciate your taking the time to 
share it, it's a good read to think about.

-Doug in FF 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
>  
> Chopra's father stabilised Maharishi when he was sick in 1992, 
in india and sent him to London.
>
> Do you think Maharishi is grateful to Chopra for that.??  Why 
erase all traces of his association with the TM mov 't.??
> 
> Duveyoung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:24:12 -
> Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps
> 
>
>   The TM fascists did this too.
> 
> > 1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
> 
> The CIA was said to have infiltrated the TM movement, Christians 
were
> openly trying to stop the movement in schools and were considered as
> evil, L.B. was publishing "a rag of unstressing. " Easy to make
> enemies appear out of nowhere -- like aces in the hand of a card 
shark.
> 
> > 2. Create a gulag
> 
> One loses one's dome badge, and one is instantly an outsider. The
> meditating kids sent to the public schools were, as if, sent to a
> gulag. The shame of our community is that it sent half the tuition
> money to International instead of using it to keep all our kids 
inside
> our group hug. Many people were banned to such a degree that if one
> was to associate with that person, one would get on the same
> blacklist. I was personally told -- immediately after becoming an
> initiator -- that I was never to have anything to do with Johnny 
Gray.
> Why? Don't ask, they warned. The movement has never been shy about
> telling us who was not to be listened to or otherwise one would be
> sent to the psychological gulag of "outside status."
> 
> > 3. Develop a thug caste
> 
> The course office personnel. Then there were those nazi-types in
> Germany who tried to completely surround Maharishi and cut him off
> from the rest of the movement. Maharishi has treated many
> international thugs-dictators with more respect than most meditators
> EVER get from the movement. Try to get Bevan to listen to anything
> negative about the movement and see if he doesn't immediately come 
off
> as a dictator with all the rights and privileges thereof. I once 
went
> to give the movement a donation, and I ended up having to give it to
> this guy whose name escapes me (he drowned in rapids in Central 
America) 
>   Well, I come in the door, and I say, "I'm here to give a
> donation," and he snapped his fingers at me exactly like a Nazi
> commandant and said, "Give to me," in a very brusque voice. He took
> the check and never said or even hinted at a "thank you." I was
> dismissed without another word from him. That was one of my BETTER
> moments with movement types.
> 
> > 4. Set up an internal surveillance system
> 
> I was blacklisted during teacher training, and I got off by knowing
> someone who had clout -- otherwise, I'd still be there -- wouldn't
> have gotten my mantras. When I was interviewed by Maharishi during a
> pre-technique interview, he wrote next to my photo, "clean now,"
> meaning my beard in the photo had been shaved. Anyone in the 
movement
> think they're not being watched? I have had perfect status since I
> got off the blacklist, was a very strong initiator, ran a center for
> eight years, taught 3% of Napa, CA to meditate, and lived on almost
> zero income, moved to Fairfield, did dome twice daily, raised my 
kids
> with the dogma, and yet, because I'm posting here, I'm willing to 
bet
> that I cannot get a dome badge now. 
> 
> > 5. Harass citizens' groups
> 
> Ask L.B. about this. Ask how almost anyone in power in the movement
> can arch an eyebrow and say, "Maharishi wouldn't like that," and
> suddenly, one understands about the subtlety of harassment. 
> 
> > 6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
> 
> I was called on the carpet when I got on the blacklist. I had to
> explain myself, then I was "released," and of course, I told my 
story
> to others and the fear spread from that too. Sigh.
> 
> > 7. Target key individuals
> 
> So many cannot show their faces in Fairfield and have any hope of
> comfort. Anyone with a dome badge just cannot "be free;" the party
> line is spewed by everyone or they're banned; the targeting of
> individuals is done in the back room, and no one hardly ever is told
> why or how to rectify the situation.
> 
> > 8. Control the press
> 
> Ask L.B. how long his rag was allowed to be freely distributed on
> campus. Ask anyone who has ever worked on any TM publication if 
their
> ideas had any chance of being sincerely attended to if it involved,
> you know, suggesting less gold ink, or perhaps marketing might be
> improved by using less photos of groups of smarmy looking Hindus who
> were seemingly on the verge

[FairfieldLife] Slicing Through Spiritual Elitism, counterpoint to Hacking the Vedas

2007-04-25 Thread Vaj

http://jake.zaadz.com/blog/2007/3/slicing_through_spiritual_elitism

[FairfieldLife] Re: Save the Dome, send $

2007-04-25 Thread geezerfreak

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>   snip  
> 
> Also, it turns out there isn't money in the regular 
> > University operating budget for major repairs either. 
> 
> Tap Girish.  Methinks there could be some dough there.
> 
> lruk
> >
No shit. Chump change for him.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Save the Dome, send $

2007-04-25 Thread lurkernomore20002000

  snip  

Also, it turns out there isn't money in the regular 
> University operating budget for major repairs either. 

Tap Girish.  Methinks there could be some dough there.

lruk
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagyas and global warming

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "at_man_and_brahman" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have to butt in.



I will read no further.

This "at_man_and brahman" poster is obviously biased from the get-
go.  He is a cigarette smoker (notice the "butt" reference) and, as 
such, is in no position to pass judgement on anything or anyone 
having to do with smoke, CO2 or global warming.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was on the payroll of big tobacco.





> Burning things that come from
> the natural environment do not add CO2 to the
> atmosphere. That happens as a result of burning
> fossil fuels that have locked these molecules out
> of the natural ecosystem for millions of years.
> 
> So long as the materials burned in yagyas have
> no petroleum base, there is not a problem. The
> flames liberate an equal amount of CO2 to the
> carbon and oxygen absorbed during the lives of
> the plants or animals that ate them (e.g., ghi from
> cow's milk).
> 
> A little petroleum is used in the transportation of 
> the materials involved. That's about it.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
wrote:
> >
> > If new.morning and co. were truly interested in combatting 
manmade 
> > global warming they would henseforth demand and insist that any 
yagyas 
> > that they participate in or pay for no longer burns candles or 
camphyr 
> > or anything else during the ceremonies as these things 
unnecessarily 
> > add to global warming.
> >
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Killing time: tat savituH

2007-04-25 Thread MDixon6569

 
In a message dated 4/25/07 5:01:39 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

FWIW, my  meditation seems more "effective" if I keep in mind
the detail about the  pronuncition of my mantra that was mentioned
by my instructor during my  initiation. :0


Get checked



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Killing time: tat savituH

2007-04-25 Thread cardemaister

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sinhlnx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 suppose, by the same reasoning; you are 
> undecided about practicing TM because of uncertainity about the 
> pronunciation.
> 

FWIW, my meditation seems more "effective" if I keep in mind
the detail about the pronuncition of my mantra that was mentioned
by my instructor during my initiation.  :0
I guess he mentioned it specifically because that consonant doesn't
appear in my native language in that particular position of a word
(which it does for instance in English, actually much 
more often than in Sanskrit, IMO!)

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

2007-04-25 Thread Jason Spock

Chopra's father stabilised Maharishi when he was sick in 1992, in india and 
sent him to London.

Do you think Maharishi is grateful to Chopra for that.??  Why erase all 
traces of his association with the TM mov 't.??

Duveyoung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:24:12 -
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

  The TM fascists did this too.

> 1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

The CIA was said to have infiltrated the TM movement, Christians were
openly trying to stop the movement in schools and were considered as
evil, L.B. was publishing "a rag of unstressing. " Easy to make
enemies appear out of nowhere -- like aces in the hand of a card shark.

> 2. Create a gulag

One loses one's dome badge, and one is instantly an outsider. The
meditating kids sent to the public schools were, as if, sent to a
gulag. The shame of our community is that it sent half the tuition
money to International instead of using it to keep all our kids inside
our group hug. Many people were banned to such a degree that if one
was to associate with that person, one would get on the same
blacklist. I was personally told -- immediately after becoming an
initiator -- that I was never to have anything to do with Johnny Gray.
Why? Don't ask, they warned. The movement has never been shy about
telling us who was not to be listened to or otherwise one would be
sent to the psychological gulag of "outside status."

> 3. Develop a thug caste

The course office personnel. Then there were those nazi-types in
Germany who tried to completely surround Maharishi and cut him off
from the rest of the movement. Maharishi has treated many
international thugs-dictators with more respect than most meditators
EVER get from the movement. Try to get Bevan to listen to anything
negative about the movement and see if he doesn't immediately come off
as a dictator with all the rights and privileges thereof. I once went
to give the movement a donation, and I ended up having to give it to
this guy whose name escapes me (he drowned in rapids in Central America) 
  Well, I come in the door, and I say, "I'm here to give a
donation," and he snapped his fingers at me exactly like a Nazi
commandant and said, "Give to me," in a very brusque voice. He took
the check and never said or even hinted at a "thank you." I was
dismissed without another word from him. That was one of my BETTER
moments with movement types.

> 4. Set up an internal surveillance system

I was blacklisted during teacher training, and I got off by knowing
someone who had clout -- otherwise, I'd still be there -- wouldn't
have gotten my mantras. When I was interviewed by Maharishi during a
pre-technique interview, he wrote next to my photo, "clean now,"
meaning my beard in the photo had been shaved. Anyone in the movement
think they're not being watched? I have had perfect status since I
got off the blacklist, was a very strong initiator, ran a center for
eight years, taught 3% of Napa, CA to meditate, and lived on almost
zero income, moved to Fairfield, did dome twice daily, raised my kids
with the dogma, and yet, because I'm posting here, I'm willing to bet
that I cannot get a dome badge now. 

> 5. Harass citizens' groups

Ask L.B. about this. Ask how almost anyone in power in the movement
can arch an eyebrow and say, "Maharishi wouldn't like that," and
suddenly, one understands about the subtlety of harassment. 

> 6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release

I was called on the carpet when I got on the blacklist. I had to
explain myself, then I was "released," and of course, I told my story
to others and the fear spread from that too. Sigh.

> 7. Target key individuals

So many cannot show their faces in Fairfield and have any hope of
comfort. Anyone with a dome badge just cannot "be free;" the party
line is spewed by everyone or they're banned; the targeting of
individuals is done in the back room, and no one hardly ever is told
why or how to rectify the situation.

> 8. Control the press

Ask L.B. how long his rag was allowed to be freely distributed on
campus. Ask anyone who has ever worked on any TM publication if their
ideas had any chance of being sincerely attended to if it involved,
you know, suggesting less gold ink, or perhaps marketing might be
improved by using less photos of groups of smarmy looking Hindus who
were seemingly on the verge of death but who were on the stage and
posing as great health practitioners -- whatever, there was no freedom
to be creative outside the TM box. 

> 9. Dissent equals treason

Ask John Lennon why he left India. Once you cross the movement in
some serious way, it just becomes clear immediately that a bridge has
been burned forever, that the movement NEVER was really interested in
dialog -- only brainwashing and groveling.

> 10. Suspend the rule of law

When I'd finally saved up enough "credits" by initiating to get on a
sidhi course, they said, "All that money's be

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

2007-04-25 Thread MDixon6569

 
In a message dated 4/25/07 2:28:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Well, I  come in the door, and I say, "I'm here to give a
donation," and he snapped  his fingers at me exactly like a Nazi
commandant and said, "Give to me," in  a very brusque voice. He took
the check and never said or even hinted at a  "thank you." I was



Sounds like the Soup NAzi.



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[FairfieldLife] Habitable earth-like Exo-planet found

2007-04-25 Thread Jason Spock

 
  Distant planet judged possibly habitable
   
  April 23, 2007
Courtesy ESO 
and World Science staff
   
  In a finding that if confirmed could stand as a landmark in 
history, astronomers have reported 
discovering the most Earth-like planet outside 
our Solar System to date: a world that may have liquid oceans 
and thus life.

Swiss, French and Portuguese scientists found the body, 
estimated as 50 percent wider than our Earth, 
orbiting a so-called red dwarf star relatively close to 
Earth. The star is thought to harbor two other planets also.


 Artist's impression of a system of 
three planets surrounding the red dwarf Gliese 581. 
(Courtesy ESO)
  
-
  
  The newfound exoplanetas astronomers call 
planets around stars other than the Sunwould be the smallest 
such body ever reported. 

Nonetheless, the object is estimated to weigh as much 
as five Earths, partly thanks to its greater width. For the same 
reason, it would have more than twice Earths surface area. 
Historically, only large exoplanets lend 
themselves to human detection, though that is changing.

Other curious features of the newfound planet are 
that gravity at its surface would be around twice as strong as 
on Earth; and its year is just 13 Earth days long, as it completes one 
orbit about its sun in that time.

Its 14 times closer to its star than we are from our Sun, 
researchers said. But since its host star, the red dwarf Gliese 581, 
is smaller and cooler than the Sun, the planet nevertheless 
would lie in its habitable zonethe region around a star 
with suitable temperatures for liquid 
water. 

Average temperatures on this super-Earth 
lie between 0 and 40 degrees Celsius (32 to 104 
degrees Fahrenheit), and water would thus be liquid, said 
Stéphane Udry of Switzerlands Geneva 
Observatory, lead author of a paper 
reporting the result. Models predict that the 
planet should be either rockylike our Earthor covered 
with oceans, he added.

Liquid water is critical to life as we know it, 
noted Xavier Delfosse, a member of the team from 
Grenoble University, France. Because of its 
temperature and relative 
proximity, this planet will most probably be a 
very important target of the future space missions 
dedicated to the search for extra-terrestrial life. On the 
treasure map of the Universe, one would be tempted to mark this 
planet with an X. 


The arrow marks the approximate 
location of the red dwarf star Gliese 581 with respect to the 
constellation Libra visible in the southern 
sky. 
  
-
  
  The host star, Gliese 581, is among the 100 closest stars to us, 
lying 20.5 light-years away in the constellation Libra 
(the Scales.) A light-year is the distance light travels in a year. 

Gliese 581 has one third the mass of our Sun. Such small stars, called red 
dwarfs, are at least 50 times fainter than the Sun and are believed 
to be the most common stars in our galaxy. Among the 100 closest 
stars to the Sun, 80 belong to this class.

Red dwarfs are ideal targets for the search for such planets 
because they emit less light, and the habitable zone is 
thus much closer to them than it is around the Sun, said Xavier 
Bonfils, a co-researcher from Lisbon University. 
Planets near a star are easier to detect because their 
gravitational pull affects the parent star 
noticeably, inducing something of a wiggling 
motion.

Red dwarfs are also expected to live 
extraordinarily long because they burn fuel 
slowly. A red dwarf one-third the Suns mass, like Gliese 581, would 
typically shine for some 130 billion years, 
outliving the Sun by thirteen times. That might relieve at 
least one source of stress for any inhabitants of a red dwarf 
system. We on Earth are already halfway through the Suns 
lifetime, though much time remains.


Artist's concept of a red dwarf, a dim star that 
burns slowly and very long. (Courtesy NASA) 
  
-
  
  Two years ago, Udry and his team found another planet around Gliese 
581, estimated to weigh as much as 15 Earthsabout as much as 
Neptuneand orbiting the star in 5.4 days.

At the time, the astronomers had already noted hints 
of another planet, Udry and colleagues said. They thus took new 
measurements and found the new super-Earth, as well as a 
likely third planet weighing eight Earths and orbiting 
in 84 days. The findings have been submitted to the 
research journal Astronomy and 
Astrophysics, the scientists said.

The find was possible thanks to an instrument known as a 
spectrograph on the Eur

[FairfieldLife] George will finally get a medal for the war he started

2007-04-25 Thread Sal Sunshine

The Yellow Badge of Cowardice

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/25/736/

[FairfieldLife] Re: Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

2007-04-25 Thread Duveyoung

The TM fascists did this too.

> 1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

The CIA was said to have infiltrated the TM movement, Christians were
openly trying to stop the movement in schools and were considered as
evil, L.B. was publishing "a rag of unstressing."  Easy to make
enemies appear out of nowhere -- like aces in the hand of a card shark.

> 2. Create a gulag

One loses one's dome badge, and one is instantly an outsider.  The
meditating kids sent to the public schools were, as if, sent to a
gulag.  The shame of our community is that it sent half the tuition
money to International instead of using it to keep all our kids inside
our group hug.  Many people were banned to such a degree that if one
was to associate with that person, one would get on the same
blacklist.  I was personally told -- immediately after becoming an
initiator -- that I was never to have anything to do with Johnny Gray.
 Why?  Don't ask, they warned.  The movement has never been shy about
telling us who was not to be listened to or otherwise one would be
sent to the psychological gulag of "outside status."

> 3. Develop a thug caste

The course office personnel.  Then there were those nazi-types in
Germany who tried to completely surround Maharishi and cut him off
from the rest of the movement.  Maharishi has treated many
international thugs-dictators with more respect than most meditators
EVER get from the movement. Try to get Bevan to listen to anything
negative about the movement and see if he doesn't immediately come off
as a dictator with all the rights and privileges thereof.  I once went
to give the movement a donation, and I ended up having to give it to
this guy whose name escapes me (he drowned in rapids in Central
America.)  Well, I come in the door, and I say, "I'm here to give a
donation," and he snapped his fingers at me exactly like a Nazi
commandant and said, "Give to me," in a very brusque voice.  He took
the check and never said or even hinted at a "thank you."  I was
dismissed without another word from him.  That was one of my BETTER
moments with movement types.

> 4. Set up an internal surveillance system

I was blacklisted during teacher training, and I got off by knowing
someone who had clout -- otherwise, I'd still be there -- wouldn't
have gotten my mantras.  When I was interviewed by Maharishi during a
pre-technique interview, he wrote next to my photo, "clean now,"
meaning my beard in the photo had been shaved.  Anyone in the movement
think they're not being watched?  I have had perfect status since I
got off the blacklist, was a very strong initiator, ran a center for
eight years, taught 3% of Napa, CA to meditate, and lived on almost
zero income, moved to Fairfield, did dome twice daily, raised my kids
with the dogma, and yet, because I'm posting here, I'm willing to bet
that I cannot get a dome badge now.  

> 5. Harass citizens' groups

Ask L.B. about this.  Ask how almost anyone in power in the movement
can arch an eyebrow and say, "Maharishi wouldn't like that," and
suddenly, one understands about the subtlety of harassment. 

> 6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release

I was called on the carpet when I got on the blacklist.  I had to
explain myself, then I was "released," and of course, I told my story
to others and the fear spread from that too.  Sigh.

> 7. Target key individuals

So many cannot show their faces in Fairfield and have any hope of
comfort.  Anyone with a dome badge just cannot "be free;" the party
line is spewed by everyone or they're banned; the targeting of
individuals is done in the back room, and no one hardly ever is told
why or how to rectify the situation.

> 8. Control the press

Ask L.B. how long his rag was allowed to be freely distributed on
campus.  Ask anyone who has ever worked on any TM publication if their
ideas had any chance of being sincerely attended to if it involved,
you know, suggesting less gold ink, or perhaps marketing might be
improved by using less photos of groups of smarmy looking Hindus who
were seemingly on the verge of death but who were on the stage and
posing as great health practitioners -- whatever, there was no freedom
to be creative outside the TM box.  
 
> 9. Dissent equals treason

Ask John Lennon why he left India.  Once you cross the movement in
some serious way, it just becomes clear immediately that a bridge has
been burned forever, that the movement NEVER was really interested in
dialog -- only brainwashing and groveling.

> 10. Suspend the rule of law

When I'd finally saved up enough "credits" by initiating to get on a
sidhi course, they said, "All that money's been taken away."  Luckily,
it was "just then a new policy," and I was able to squeak loudly
enough to get the course.  But the movement will make up any rule and
expect that if one is harmed by that that one much just suck it up and
shut completely up about it, and never, never, never expect the
movement to respect one for any amount of true believerism o

[FairfieldLife] Dutch TV Report on 2007 Bilderberg Conference

2007-04-25 Thread Bhairitu

In Dutch and English with subtitles:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5370178078513730189

Are you one of the 3 billion?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Killing time: tat savituH

2007-04-25 Thread sinhlnx

--You're not making sense.  You're saying that nobody in the entire 
world is pronouncing it correctly?  Baloney.  Just buy the audio tape 
from Shree Maa and go along with her. Don't let eruditeness get in 
the way of progress. I suppose, by the same reasoning; you are 
undecided about practicing TM because of uncertainity about the 
pronunciation.

- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mathatbrahman" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > --I recommend actually chanting the Gayatri mantra, also. Try it 
for 
> > one month.
> > 
> > 
> 
> I'm afraid for it to be effective one would need to know how
> to pronounce the accents (udaatta, anudaatta and svarita):
> 
>   tat sa\'vi\`tur vare\'Nya\`m bhargo\' de\`vasya\' dhiimahi  |\\
>   dhiyo\` yo naH\' praco\`dayaa\'t  || \EN{3}{062}{10} \\
> 
> Furthermore, for most native speakers of English (or French, etc.)
> who have not studied Sanskrit, the correct pronunciation of Sanskrit
> phonemes might be quite difficult.
> Because Finnish spelling is one of the most phonetic ones in the
> world, for me it's rather easy to pronounce tranliterated Sanskrit 
> fairly accurately except for the accents and retroflex sounds that 
are 
> peculiar to Sanskrit and Dravidian languages.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: Yagyas and global warming

2007-04-25 Thread at_man_and_brahman

I have to butt in. Burning things that come from
the natural environment do not add CO2 to the
atmosphere. That happens as a result of burning
fossil fuels that have locked these molecules out
of the natural ecosystem for millions of years.

So long as the materials burned in yagyas have
no petroleum base, there is not a problem. The
flames liberate an equal amount of CO2 to the
carbon and oxygen absorbed during the lives of
the plants or animals that ate them (e.g., ghi from
cow's milk).

A little petroleum is used in the transportation of 
the materials involved. That's about it.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If new.morning and co. were truly interested in combatting manmade 
> global warming they would henseforth demand and insist that any yagyas 
> that they participate in or pay for no longer burns candles or camphyr 
> or anything else during the ceremonies as these things unnecessarily 
> add to global warming.
>

[FairfieldLife] Hacking the Vedas

2007-04-25 Thread Vaj

http://davidbrucehughes.zaadz.com/blog/2007/2/hacking_the_vedas

Are you using crippleware? Yes junior, you probably are.

And once you've broken the seal, you can't get your money back.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

2007-04-25 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I had this discussion with John Knapp when he asked me to write 
> for his site.  I am not against such sites, but I told him that 
> I feel like this information is all out there for people who want 
> it. Virtually no one is starting TM today, and the ones who do 
> have more than enough info to evaluate it. 
> 
> My POV is valuable to me. I am not confused about its value for
> others.  

Bingo. What he said.

> I do enjoy discussing it here though because I feel like I am
> addressing people who have hammered out their own perspectives 
> on these issues as I have. By revisiting these ideas I am able 
> to reassess how I view these topics now. More importantly for 
> me, it is giving me a connection to people who are still 
> pursuing their own spiritual paths on their own terms. This 
> is a sub culture that I had lost touch with, and it has a 
> value for me.

It's probably the main reason I'm here as well. 

I'm most comfortable these days with folks who
have "blown out" of one spiritual path or another.
They might have BTDT and then committed to another
formal spiritual path, or they might be more like
Curtis and me, and are trying to "roll our own." But
there is something very "mother is at home" about
folks who have walked away from a strong spiritual
path and not only lived to tell about it, but to
laugh at it. 

It may be as simple a thing as the laughter. When
you encounter people who have developed the ability 
to laugh at the stuff they were once forbidden to
laugh at, and even more important, to laugh at the 
stupid shit that we all did in such environments,
there is a certain resonance there that is magical.
Maybe it's what ex-alcoholics (*really* ex) feel
in AA meetings, or the sense of freedom that L.A.
ex-cokeheads feel in the numerous bars there that
are now substance-free: no alcohol, no cigarettes,
no drugs, just herbal tonic drinks and good 
conversation with other BTDTers. (Thanks for this
acronym, Sal...it's a useful one, and probably 
should be added to the FFL list of them.)

Anyway, to echo Curtis' sentiments, I find that 
there is a fine "comfort level" on the "New FFL"
that I suspect is more conducive to good conver-
sations. You don't go to one of those substance-
free bars to talk overmuch about the evils of drugs, 
let alone to argue with those who still use them. 
We *know* all about the cool things that drugs do.
We've BTDT. We "get" drugs. And we "get" TM and
Maharishi's spiritual path, too. We wouldn't have
spent so many years doing it if we hadn't gotten
what it had to offer.

And some of us have moved on from it to different
paths, and some are still on the same path but
with more distance from it, and others trod no
path but their own. But as far as I can tell, all
have interesting things to say, and interesting
perspectives to bring to the conversations. Even
if you're dropping into the conversation from some
seaside bar in Catalonia. 

Maybe FFL is a little like the "Cheers" myth. You
know the one; it was in the theme song to the TV
show. The bar "where everybody knows your name."
And (unsaid in the song but implied), where you
don't really have to "prove" much of anything. 
People like you there because you hold up your
end of the conversation. You don't have to be rich,
you don't have to be pious, you don't have to be a
governor or a raja, you don't have to be much of 
anything except your self. And occasionally Self.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

2007-04-25 Thread authfriend

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:

> What I find absolutely fascinating is the way your very
> reasonable and well thought-out responses are causing all
> sorts of angst and almost panic in the ranks of the still-
> faithful

Actually, Sal, I believe there was only one person
who challenged Curtis about yagyas (new morning),
and his challenge certainly wasn't angst- or panic-
filled.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

2007-04-25 Thread authfriend

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > > >  wrote:
> > > >  
> > > > > My criticism of selling yagyas comes from its theory as 
well as
> > > > > its practice.  I don't know of any plausible theory of how 
> > > > > offering, smoke and food to statues of Indians mythological 
> > > > > characters can have an effect on the world without 
proposing a 
> > > > > magical connection.
> > > > 
> > > > Actually, there are quite a few theories floating
> > > > around these days from highly credentialed, non-TM
> > > > physicists that would allow for yagyas to have an
> > > > effect on the world, along with a lot of other
> > > > phenomena that you would call "magic."
> > > 
> > > I don't discount this Judy.  The world is a plenty magical 
place and
> > > there is so much to discover. I think MMY has too many a priori
> > > assumptions for me to believe that he is sincerely trying to 
find 
> > > out what works and what doesn't.
> > 
> > That doesn't make sense, Curtis.  Why on earth
> > would having a priori assumptions indicate a
> > lack of sincerity?
> > 
> > He believes he knows how it all works behind
> > the scenes.  What he's experimenting with is
> > the implementation.  How could it be otherwise?
> > Nobody's ever tried to accomplish what he wants
> > to accomplish systematically on such a large
> > scale, even those who share his a priori
> > assumptions.  So he has to make it up as he
> > goes along.
> > 
> > Whether he's making smart choices about what
> > to try and how is another question.
> 
> MMY's use of science is as a marketing language with contempt
> for it methods.

I don't think it's contempt but more a lack of
understanding of what's required. There's not the
trace of a question in his mind about whether his
theories/beliefs are correct, so of course he
expects them to be validated by science. If they
aren't, it has to be the fault of the science.

Maybe that's what you're calling contempt, but I
think it's the wrong term. Science is an imperfect
tool, as far as he's concerned (which even 
scientists acknowledge), so he's not going to let
it get in the way. If the results of a particular
test are helpful, fine; if not, never mind, throw
them out and try something else.

In any case, this should all be in the past tense,
because he's pretty much dropped the emphasis on
science in recent years.

> MMY is not open to the possibility that he is wrong about
> any of his theories, so he is not actually testing them.
> He lacks an openness to falsifiability and this subverts
> the whole method as a way of getting to truth.

Exactly. But that doesn't equate to insincerity.
He isn't trying to *find out* what the truth is;
he thinks he knows it already. He's not trying to
use science to prove something he knows isn't true.

> I don't get the sense that you approach science the way MMY
> does Judy. I think you understand the value of its method
> better, and are more open to the possibility for theories
> to be proven wrong so we can get to the ones that can be 
> proven right. I don't think we are so far apart on that issue.
> 
> Take pulse diagnosis for one.  It is easy to actually test to
> see if it has medical merit. But these tests are not being done
> because the possibility of it not being accurate is unthinkable
> for the movement.

Ah, but it *isn't* easy to actually test.

The only definitive test would be one like the
Framingham study or the Nurses' study, in which
a very large number of people, some of whom were
subject to standard medical diagnosis and some
of whom were subject to pulse diagnosis, were
followed closely for many years.

 I just came back from spending a good hour
reading an old (1998) discussion on alt.m.t about
the pitfalls of testing extraordinary claims,
including pulse diagnosis and a bunch of others.

The  is because there hasn't been a discussion
on FFL on any topic (since I've been here, at least)
that came anywhere even remotely near this one in
depth and thoroughness. I had forgotten what alt.m.t
used to be like.

Anyway, the discussion covered many of the issues
you've raised in this post (not yagyas, which
weren't such a big deal back then; in fact most of
it was about non-TM extraordinary claims). If you're
interested and have the time, I think you'd find it
edifying. It begins here--

http://tinyurl.com/2jrc88

--and continues for about a Google page and a half
(but there's more material than that would suggest,
because some of the posts are so long they're 
truncated on the main page and continued on a sub-
page).

If you want to describe how you think pulse
diagnosis could be tested, please do, and we can
take it from there.

[FairfieldLife] Yagyas and global warming

If new.morning and co. were truly interested in combatting manmade 
global warming they would henseforth demand and insist that any yagyas 
that they participate in or pay for no longer burns candles or camphyr 
or anything else during the ceremonies as these things unnecessarily 
add to global warming.

[FairfieldLife] Womens Shelter e -invitation

2007-04-25 Thread Rick Archer

>From a friend:

Hi...!

Woulld you please invite women you know who might be interested in
supporting the Women's Crisis Center by taking a great workshop "The Passion
Test" by Janet Atwood?

This event is Sunday 1:30 at Morning Star. All proceeds go to The Womens
Shelter which serves Fairfield and six counties.


Many Blessings,


Francesca

_

For Women only!

The Passion Test Workshop
Women's Shelter Fundraiser
by Janet Attwood 

best-selling author of "The Passion Test: Discover Your Personal Secrets to
Living a Life on Fire"


Sunday, April 29,1:30 to 4:30 pm
Morning Star Studios  - $35

100% of net proceeds are being donated to the Crisis Center & Women's
Shelter.

"Let me show you how to discover the one thing that can change everything in
your life." Janet Attwood

Tickets available at Thymely Solutions, At Home Store, Curves for Women or
by calling 472-7148


(This event is sponsored by SEVA to benefit the Crisis Center.)

[FairfieldLife] Re: 4 years to live

2007-04-25 Thread nablusoss1008


> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam"  
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm more worried about the bees going away than I am with the 
Christ
> > coming back. What does Creme say about honeybees?

Nothing, as far as I know. But anyone can post questions to Mr. Creme 
for the monthly newsletter. Any topic. Next issue is due shortly.

Please see: http://www.shareintl.org
 

> > > --- In nablusoss1008 wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" 
>  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "In 1923 Rudolf Steiner predicted the dire state of today's 
> > > honeybee.
> > > > He stated that, within fifty to eighty years, we would see the
> > > > consequences of mechanizing the forces that had previously 
> operated
> > > > organically in the beehive. Such practices include breeding 
> queen 
> > > bees
> > > > artificially.
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880104570
> > > > 
> > > > Patrick writing: Steiner is said to have said in a lecture 
> > > that "that
> > > > which we experience within ourselves only at a time when our 
> hearts
> > > > develop love is actually the very same thing that is present 
as 
> a
> > > > substance in the entire beehive. The whole beehive is 
permeated 
> with
> > > > life based on love. In many ways the bees renounce love, and 
> thereby
> > > > this love develops within the entire beehive."
> > > > 
> > > > Back to the book review:
> > > > 
> > > > "The fact that over sixty percent of the American honeybee 
> > > population
> > > > has died during the past ten years, and that this trend is 
> > > continuing
> > > > around the world, should make us aware of the importance of 
the 
> > > issues
> > > > discussed in these lectures. Steiner began this series of 
> lectures 
> > > on
> > > > bees in response to a question from an audience of workers at 
> the
> > > > Goetheanum.
> > > > 
> > > > "From physical depictions of the daily activities of bees to 
> the 
> > > most
> > > > elevated esoteric insights, these lectures describe the 
> unconscious
> > > > wisdom of the beehive and its connection to our experience of 
> > > health,
> > > > culture, and the cosmos.
> > > > 
> > > > "Rudolf Steiner (Feb. 27, 1861Mar. 30, 1925) was born in 
> Kraljevic,
> > > > Austria, where he grew up the son of a railroad station 
chief. 
> As a
> > > > young man, he lived in Weimar and Berlin, where he became a 
> > > respected
> > > > and well-published scientific, literary, and philosophical 
> scholar,
> > > > known especially for his work on Goethe's scientific 
writings. 
> At 
> > > the
> > > > beginning of the twentieth century, he began to develop his 
> earlier
> > > > philosophical principles into an approach to methodical 
> research of
> > > > psychological and spiritual phenomena. Steiner formally began 
> his
> > > > spiritual teaching career under the auspices of the 
Theosophical
> > > > Society, later referring to his spiritual research results and
> > > > philosophy as "Anthroposophy," or spiritual science. His 
> > > multifaceted
> > > > genius has led to innovative and holistic approaches in 
> medicine,
> > > > philosophy, religion, education (Waldorf schools), special 
> education
> > > > (the Camphill movement), economics, agriculture (biodynamics),
> > > > science, architecture, and the arts (drama, speech and 
> eurythmy). In
> > > > 1924 he founded the General Anthroposophical Society, which 
has
> > > > branches throughout the world. He died in Dornach, 
Switzerland.
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880104570
> > > 
> > > Very interesting post; thank you Patrick! However the great 
> influence 
> > > Steiner has had in many fields in the Western world his 
followers 
> are 
> > > somewhat caught up in the past, as the following from Benjamin 
> Creme 
> > > might explain :
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Q. Aren't there some other disciples who could be working as 
you 
> do 
> > > to make known the Christ's presence? (Europe)
> > > A. There are five people who you might have thought would be 
key 
> > > people in the 4,000 people involved in this work around the 
> world: 
> > > one in New York, me in London, one in Geneva, one in 
Darjeeling, 
> one 
> > > in Tokyo, all chosen to be the first presenters. Around them 
> would 
> > > gather more, so that it would become a worldwide happening. 
This 
> > > information would be coming from five points across the world 
> from 
> > > New York to Tokyo, a brilliant plan, except that the one in New 
> York 
> > > does not believe. He has been to my lectures several times but 
> does 
> > > not believe the story. I am the one in London. The one in 
Geneva, 
> > > like the one in New York, does not believe the story. They are 
> both 
> > > Christian mystics, influenced by people like Steiner who died 
> before 
> > > the plan that it would be the Christ Himself was finalized. 
> Steiner 
> > > was adamant that the Christ could not return in a physical body 
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

2007-04-25 Thread Sal Sunshine


On Apr 25, 2007, at 9:14 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:


I have participated in yagyas with MMY and outside
the movement.  My Vedic wedding was about 5 hours long.


Practically longer than the marriage! (sorry, Curtis, couldn't 
resist.:))


 It was a blast.  I got a great rent-a-pundit from one of the DC 
temples and we

threw dung in a fire for hours.


Uh, oh, now that explains a lot...

What I find absolutely fascinating is the way your very reasonable and 
well thought-out responses are causing all sorts of angst and almost 
panic in the ranks of the still-faithful--it's like, they now have to 
"prove" you wrong, or else...something.  Their world might collapse, I 
suppose.  It's not enough for them that *they* believe yagyas have some 
inherent value, whether it's on the level of the physical or not, *you* 
must believe it too.  And if you don't, it's got to be because you are 
still wallowing in ignorance, never experienced them (or haven't 
experienced enough of them) or just haven't thought it through enough, 
etc.  Their insecurity is so great they must take down (or try to) 
anyone who feels differently.  Every time I hear one of these wacko 
tirades I thank heavens I am  on the outside looking in.


Rent-a-pundit--got to be a great Mad Magazine skit in there somewhere.

Sal

[FairfieldLife] Re: Save the Dome, send $

2007-04-25 Thread dhamiltony2k5

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:48 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > In a message dated 4/23/2007 8:43:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> >
> > FW: <
> > The roof of the Men's Golden Dome is leaking and needs to be fixed
> > right away, and we need your help to do it. Whether you enjoy 
>group
> > program in the Men's Dome every day or as a visitor from out of 
>town,
> > we invite you to make a meaningful contribution.
> >
> > 
> >
> > The Dome is at the heart and soul of our community, so please 
>send your
> > donation or pledge now so we can make the deposit required to 
>make a
> > repair appointment later this summer.
> >

> > > Lou writing:   ...They should 
> > sell their crowns and fix the roof on the men's golden dome. Or 
>maybe 
> > MMY should cancel his projects to rebuild the buildings of the 
>world 
> > and try to stop his own roof from leaking in Iowa. Lsoma.
> 

>Sal writing:
> No wonder they've banned you from the Domes, Lou--all that common 
>sense 
> is downright subversive.  Use their *own* $$ to pay for badly-
>needed 
> repairs??  What heresy.
> 
> Sal
>

FW:

"...Because Dome attendance is free, there is no operating budget for 
repairs.  Also, it turns out there isn't money in the regular 
University operating budget for major repairs either.  And the very 
generous scholarship donation, funding the Invincibility America 
Assembly is not available for repairs."

"...Sadly, the aging roof doesn't look good, and worse it's leaking 
now.  We really need to fix it now to preserve the building.  
Ultimately we want to see the full Men's Dome renovation completed, 
but the first and immediate priority is to repair the roof, at a cost 
of $165,000."   >

[FairfieldLife] Re: 4 years to live

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> I'm more worried about the bees going away than I am with the Christ
> coming back. What does Creme say about honeybees?



Cream goes well with honey.


> 
> > --- In nablusoss1008 wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam" 
 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > "In 1923 Rudolf Steiner predicted the dire state of today's 
> > honeybee.
> > > He stated that, within fifty to eighty years, we would see the
> > > consequences of mechanizing the forces that had previously 
operated
> > > organically in the beehive. Such practices include breeding 
queen 
> > bees
> > > artificially.
> > > 
> > > http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880104570
> > > 
> > > Patrick writing: Steiner is said to have said in a lecture 
> > that "that
> > > which we experience within ourselves only at a time when our 
hearts
> > > develop love is actually the very same thing that is present as 
a
> > > substance in the entire beehive. The whole beehive is permeated 
with
> > > life based on love. In many ways the bees renounce love, and 
thereby
> > > this love develops within the entire beehive."
> > > 
> > > Back to the book review:
> > > 
> > > "The fact that over sixty percent of the American honeybee 
> > population
> > > has died during the past ten years, and that this trend is 
> > continuing
> > > around the world, should make us aware of the importance of the 
> > issues
> > > discussed in these lectures. Steiner began this series of 
lectures 
> > on
> > > bees in response to a question from an audience of workers at 
the
> > > Goetheanum.
> > > 
> > > "From physical depictions of the daily activities of bees to 
the 
> > most
> > > elevated esoteric insights, these lectures describe the 
unconscious
> > > wisdom of the beehive and its connection to our experience of 
> > health,
> > > culture, and the cosmos.
> > > 
> > > "Rudolf Steiner (Feb. 27, 1861Mar. 30, 1925) was born in 
Kraljevic,
> > > Austria, where he grew up the son of a railroad station chief. 
As a
> > > young man, he lived in Weimar and Berlin, where he became a 
> > respected
> > > and well-published scientific, literary, and philosophical 
scholar,
> > > known especially for his work on Goethe's scientific writings. 
At 
> > the
> > > beginning of the twentieth century, he began to develop his 
earlier
> > > philosophical principles into an approach to methodical 
research of
> > > psychological and spiritual phenomena. Steiner formally began 
his
> > > spiritual teaching career under the auspices of the Theosophical
> > > Society, later referring to his spiritual research results and
> > > philosophy as "Anthroposophy," or spiritual science. His 
> > multifaceted
> > > genius has led to innovative and holistic approaches in 
medicine,
> > > philosophy, religion, education (Waldorf schools), special 
education
> > > (the Camphill movement), economics, agriculture (biodynamics),
> > > science, architecture, and the arts (drama, speech and 
eurythmy). In
> > > 1924 he founded the General Anthroposophical Society, which has
> > > branches throughout the world. He died in Dornach, Switzerland.
> > > 
> > > http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880104570
> > 
> > Very interesting post; thank you Patrick! However the great 
influence 
> > Steiner has had in many fields in the Western world his followers 
are 
> > somewhat caught up in the past, as the following from Benjamin 
Creme 
> > might explain :
> > 
> > 
> > Q. Aren't there some other disciples who could be working as you 
do 
> > to make known the Christ's presence? (Europe)
> > A. There are five people who you might have thought would be key 
> > people in the 4,000 people involved in this work around the 
world: 
> > one in New York, me in London, one in Geneva, one in Darjeeling, 
one 
> > in Tokyo, all chosen to be the first presenters. Around them 
would 
> > gather more, so that it would become a worldwide happening. This 
> > information would be coming from five points across the world 
from 
> > New York to Tokyo, a brilliant plan, except that the one in New 
York 
> > does not believe. He has been to my lectures several times but 
does 
> > not believe the story. I am the one in London. The one in Geneva, 
> > like the one in New York, does not believe the story. They are 
both 
> > Christian mystics, influenced by people like Steiner who died 
before 
> > the plan that it would be the Christ Himself was finalized. 
Steiner 
> > was adamant that the Christ could not return in a physical body 
and 
> > thought that when the Christ Principle awakened sufficiently in 
the 
> > hearts of men, then we could say the Christ is in the world. This 
is 
> > only one aspect of the Reappearance of the Christ. People who 
follow 
> > Steiner have closed their minds to the very possibility of the 
> > Reappearance of the Christ as a physical man in the world, quite 
> > apart from all the 40

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

There are people much more qualified than I am who have already done
this work, guys like Barry Markofsky (Sp?).  For me being a strong
advocate for this perspective is really over.  I spent some time when
I first shifted my perspective on MMY and TM attempting to persuade
people about my POV.  But I have concluded that we all have to seek
out our own perspectives.  I appreciate your thinking I might have
something to add to the discussion.

If you accept MMY's interpretation of the value of the subjective
experiences from his program, this point is moot.  At least it was for
me when I was into TM.  I didn't stop TM because I felt the research
was not good science, and I didn't stay in because of the science.  It
influenced my confidence in his interpretation of my experiences a
little.  When I was an active TM guy it was for the experiences I was
having, and the value I gave them from MMY's perspective.  All the
other insights that came when I left were afterthoughts.  I accepted
the role of science as a marketing tool for "the West" ala MMY's SOB.
People really into this don't care about the science.  It is not the
most important peg that the belief system attaches to.  The money, the
sex, the pseudo science, the manipulations, none of this really
matters if MMY was correct in his evaluation of human consciousness
IMO. And it matters little to people who have decided that his POV is
flawed also.  They are all just curiosities.

I had this discussion with John Knapp when he asked me to write for
his site.  I am not against such sites, but I told him that I feel
like this information is all out there for people who want it.
Virtually no one is starting TM today, and the ones who do have more
than enough info to evaluate it. 

My POV is valuable to me.  I am not confused about its value for
others.  I do enjoy discussing it here though because I feel like I am
addressing people who have hammered out their own perspectives on
these issues as I have.  By revisiting these ideas I am able to
reassess  how I view these topics now.  More importantly for me, it is
giving me a connection to people who are still pursuing their own
spiritual paths on their own terms.  This is a sub culture that I had
lost touch with, and it has a value for me.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> On Apr 25, 2007, at 9:24 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
> 
> > MMY's use of science is as a marketing language with contempt for it
> > methods. When I spent a month with David OJ going over the research,
> > I got a front row seat on how the movement approaches science. They
> > are the pharmaceutical company using science as marketing who don't
> > want to hear any counter evidence to their assumptions about its
> > value. There is just too much money at stake. MMY is not open to the
> > possibility that he is wrong about any of his theories, so he is not
> > actually testing them. He lacks an openness to falsifiability and
> > this subverts the whole method as a way of getting to truth. This
> > methodology is fine for a religious believer. If MMY just stepped up
> > and dropped the scientific marketing front you and I never would have
> > met online. But in his contempt for the method he misses the
> > opportunity to advance our knowledge in some interesting areas.
> 
> 
> If you could document your insights to this in more detail, I'm sure  
> it would be helpful for the people who are still trying to extricate  
> themselves from the whole, very seductive "scientific" marketing  
> "we're not a religion" thing. Could you give any more specifics?
> 
> These are very important insights because they have the potential to  
> help people gain some missing perspective. Many TMers and certainly  
> most TB's believe TM "science" is genuine and sacrosanct. You are  
> presenting an important alternative view with the potential to help  
> people still swayed by misrepresentation and outright lies.
>

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "boo_lives" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> It's amazing the complex, unrealistic mental gymnastics that people
> like shemp and brigante go through to pretend that everything the 
tmo
> does, like aggressively yagyas and all the other money making 
schemes
> that consistently come out year after year, did not originate with
> MMY.  In fact according to this post below MMY was forced by his
> devotees to come up with yagyas and is powerless to stop the tmo 
from
> continuing to aggressively market them.  This is really a bizarre
> belief for anyone who has actually worked in the movement or close 
to
> MMY.  



Actually, you sound like one of the enablers.

It sounds to me like YOU were around MMY at some point in your 
meditating "career".  And when the nutty, cultist stuff started to 
come down the pike I suspect that, instead of raising your hand and 
saying "Maharishi, we can't do that", you were part of the Silent 
Unanimity that kept your collective mouth shut, didn't protest, and 
let MMY continue on his merry way with whatever whacky scheme entered 
his mind.  

I suspect, boo_lives, that if you did speak up, you were afraid that 
you would be shunned and, eventually, pushed away from access to MMY 
or assigned to some Siberian TM outpost, like South Fallsberg or 
Santa Barbara and, as such, away from getting MMY's darshan and the 
coveted access of being in or close to the inner circle.  Much safer 
to just not make waves and, heck, the guy's enlighted, you must have 
reasoned, is of course perfect and is not capable of making a mistake.

How long, my friend, were you around MMY and during what years?  I 
ask because once I ascertain what era of the TMO it was, I will 
recall which kookinesses came out of that time period and then 
proceed to ask you whether you stood up to it and what exactly you 
did from your side to prevent it.

I will then determine whether my suspicions that you were an enabler 
are correct...



> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > What the movement does is take money from people for religious
> > > rituals.  I have seen two personal friends drain their bank 
accounts
> > > trying to solve health issues with yagyas which did not work.  
Well
> > > actually it did work in the sense that MMY cashed in on 
someone's
> > > desperate hope. I am not in favor of this. If the movement was 
> > sincere
> > > about this they would test it.  They did no follow up to see if 
the
> > > yagya worked.  I find this contemptible.  They don't care what 
> > happens
> > > as long as the check clears.
> > 
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > 
> > I say that MMY is welcome to the money.
> > 
> > In one's very first exposure to TM and the TMO -- I am referring 
to 
> > the first 5 minutes of step one of the 7 step program to learn TM 
> > called the Introductory Lecture, -- virtually everyone is told 
that 
> > TM is neither a religion or a philosophy.
> > 
> > To MMY's credit, he drilled this home to us and repeated it 
> > constantly and irritatingly for nigh on 25 years.
> > 
> > And what did the majority of the acolytes and hangers-on that I 
> > witnessed during my involvement with the TMO in the '70s do with 
this 
> > little piece of information?  Why, they ignored it completely 
with a 
> > wink-wink, nudge nudge that the "real" knowledge was just around 
the 
> > corner and that their master and guru would come out with it 
> > soon...all the while, I may add, these same people were telling 
the 
> > meditators, the general public, and the press that TM was neither 
a 
> > religion or a philosophy.
> > 
> > And we all saw these cultists approach MMY on tapes with this 
> > attitude of hey, MMY, when are you coming out with the REAL 
> > stuff...and MMY would consistently tell them: no, TM is the whole 
> > shebang; that's all you need.  And yet they kept coming back 
> > insisting it wasn't.
> > 
> > Well, the cultists won out.  They finally wore the old man down. 
> > 
> > I think he just got exhausted and said to himself: Well, I've 
been 
> > telling 'em it's not a religion but they keep insisting it is and 
> > treating me like a guru so I guess I gotta give 'em what they 
want.
> > 
> > And so you've got yagyas and religion and all that right up the 
ying-
> > yang.
> > 
> > If TMO sycophants and meditators in general are going to, on 
MMY's 
> > word, send the TMO oodles and oodles of cash for 5-minutes of 
yagyas, 
> > then they are suckers, they're off the program, and they all 
deserve 
> > to be parted from their last dime.  They were told right up front 
and 
> > time and time and time again that this wasn't a religion but they 
> > insisted that it was and that's what they got.
> > 
> > I feel more sympathy for the Nigerian email hustlers than I do 
for 
> > the whole lot of TM cultists who have ruined this movement by 
> > insisting on silliness like yagyas and spending thousands of 
dollars 
> > on thin

[FairfieldLife] Re:DIFFERENT STATES OF CONS/DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS

2007-04-25 Thread Lsoma

QUESTIONS FROM THE COLLECTIVE/Lou Valentino

According to MMY the seven states of consciousness can be experienced while
in a physical body. Is this true?

NO. One can have intervals of experiencing TC, CC or GC. Full experience of
CC would mean you have at least entered the sixth dimension after physical
death or are in the higher levels of the sixth. When we transcend we are
experiencing the upper sixth dimensional vibration. Once you have mastered the
first
six dimensions and enter the 7th then you have established a permanent state
of GC. The seventh dimension is where the masters of the lower six planes
reside in GC. Guru Dev is in the beginning levels of the sixth as well as
SSRS.
Ammachi is stepping into the sixth. This is where heart starts to take over-
In the upper fifth to beginning of the sixth. Mother Meera is from the
seventh as well as Ekhart Tolle (Very rare). Only three seventh dimensional
masters are in physical embodiment presently GC.

Waking, dreaming and sleeping belong to the third and fourth dimensions.
(Non-Meditators mostly)

TC along with the other three combine experiences of the fifth and sixth
dimensions. Bodies are etheric in the fifth and sixth.

GC is the seventh dimension. Golden light is everywhere and you are able to
read the Akashic Records

UC is the 12th where the subject and object are no longer involved. A
compete merging with the absolute.

Meditators are growing towards CC and as MMY has said in SCI you can have
experiences of the other states of awareness at different times. UC is
without
a physical or etheric body however.

Is MMY enlightened? NO. Is Deepak Chopra? NO. Bevin Morris? NO, NO. John
Hagelin? NO.

MMY is from the third level of the fifth dimension. He is still growing
towards CC. This is the reason why he only see's the structure of his
organization being so important. More important than taking care of the soul's
that are
involved in creating his organization. The reason why many leave out of human
frustration due is lack of attention to personal feelings and a rush to save
the world without looking who he is stepping on. But, he still is the best
meditation teacher on this planet. Lsoma.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

New,

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
>
>
> > My criticism of selling yagyas
> > comes from its theory as well as its
> > practice.  I don't know of any plausible theory of how offering, smoke
> > and food to statues of Indians mythological characters can have an
> > effect on the world without proposing a magical connection. (poetic
> > physicsy sounding words don't cut it for me)  MMY is selling an
> > ancient religion's world view.  I don't share it, so his sincerity or
> > lack of it as he scoops up the bucks is irrelevant.
>
> You said previously that you do not "believe" in yagyas. Is this based
> on experience or simply a belief? it appears the latter. You discount
> my experience -- thats fine. Particularly if you have repeated
> personal experience in which no value was gained, and no experience
> was occuring.

Since none of us actually experience causation, we build our beliefs
around our conclusions from our experiences.  Even MMY makes this
critical epistemological distinction that simultaneity is not the same
as causation.  (remember the guy who got enlightened stepping on a
tomato?)  I am not inclined to discount people's reports of subjective
experiences since I have had plenty of them myself. It is what we
conclude about their value that may distinguish our views.

>
> Thats quite counter to my personal experience. Starting with pujas --
> not a yagya per se, but they are "offering, smoke and food to ... "
> images. Did you never feel anything from doing a puja. Did you ever
> initaite 20-30 people in a day? And felt nothing? If so, I can only
> say "amazing".

I felt a lot.  I loved pujas and the way they made me feel.  Although
I don't value the experience in the same way I once did, as having an
important positive effect on how my consciousness functions, I will
always cherish the peak experiences I had doing puja and teaching TM.
 But I don't view its value in the same way so it is (for me) like a
memory of a childhood Christmas. I still love Christmas but it is
different for me now.  It is more about people and less about Santa.

>
> If you did feel something from pujas, do you discount the experience,
> because you don't know of any plausible theory of how it works? Do you
> require such plausible theories in all areas of your life? Falling in
> love? Appreciating music?

As I said, I don't discount the subjective experience, I reject the
physical effect claims.  Falling in love is usually reasonable once
you understand a person's value system.  I think falling in love
follows lots of detectable reasons.  It follows rules like
propinquity.  Each life stage has obvious criteria that we use in
selecting a mate.  Falling in love is not such a mystery.  As far as
taste in music goes, I am not sure that it needs much explanation. 
Some people seem predisposed to notice music and each of us seems
drawn to different qualities.  I don't need an explanation to enjoy
it.  If you wanted to charge me $1000 to hear magical music that would
cure cancer, I might have a bigger stake in asking questions.  I know
a lot of reasons why Delta blues moves me.  It has to do with my
values and what I am looking for from music.  I understand why I like
it so much.  Some of the reasons are very logical given my personal
values and taste.  Art and logic are not in a battle in my life.  They
play nicely together.  But these are areas where falsifiability is not
needed.  The only person who cares about my taste is me.  But a claim
concerning the outer physical effects of yagyas is an area that
requires (for me) more support in how it works for me to take the
theory seriously.  So far I am not convinced in its theoretical
support or its empirical proof.  I consider it a low probability area
so I don't give it much attention.  I think focusing on their outer
effects is misguided and misses their real value to people which I
will discuss below.

I would find it odd anyone who does not
> believe such experiences until they are well vested the theory and
> research as to which neurotransmittors are triggering various
> receptors? I like that too -- but tend to still enjoy the experience
> regardless.

I have a plausible, and for me satisfying theory of how pujas,
meditations and chanting effects my mind.  I do not have a theory that
supports a trans personal effect on the world or the physical claims
of yagyas done for specific physical effects.  It differs from MMY's
view and is more influenced by my experiences as a hypnotherapist than
from religious scriptures.  I am fascinated with altered states but do
not view them as higher states.

>
> Have you participated in a number of yagyas and homas, making
> offerings along with the priest(s), feeling the heat of the offering
> fire, for hours long offerings? If so, and you felt nothing? Amazing
> if so. Highly counter to my experience. If you have not pa

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

2007-04-25 Thread boo_lives

It's amazing the complex, unrealistic mental gymnastics that people
like shemp and brigante go through to pretend that everything the tmo
does, like aggressively yagyas and all the other money making schemes
that consistently come out year after year, did not originate with
MMY.  In fact according to this post below MMY was forced by his
devotees to come up with yagyas and is powerless to stop the tmo from
continuing to aggressively market them.  This is really a bizarre
belief for anyone who has actually worked in the movement or close to
MMY.  

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > 
> > What the movement does is take money from people for religious
> > rituals.  I have seen two personal friends drain their bank accounts
> > trying to solve health issues with yagyas which did not work.  Well
> > actually it did work in the sense that MMY cashed in on someone's
> > desperate hope. I am not in favor of this. If the movement was 
> sincere
> > about this they would test it.  They did no follow up to see if the
> > yagya worked.  I find this contemptible.  They don't care what 
> happens
> > as long as the check clears.
> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
> 
> I say that MMY is welcome to the money.
> 
> In one's very first exposure to TM and the TMO -- I am referring to 
> the first 5 minutes of step one of the 7 step program to learn TM 
> called the Introductory Lecture, -- virtually everyone is told that 
> TM is neither a religion or a philosophy.
> 
> To MMY's credit, he drilled this home to us and repeated it 
> constantly and irritatingly for nigh on 25 years.
> 
> And what did the majority of the acolytes and hangers-on that I 
> witnessed during my involvement with the TMO in the '70s do with this 
> little piece of information?  Why, they ignored it completely with a 
> wink-wink, nudge nudge that the "real" knowledge was just around the 
> corner and that their master and guru would come out with it 
> soon...all the while, I may add, these same people were telling the 
> meditators, the general public, and the press that TM was neither a 
> religion or a philosophy.
> 
> And we all saw these cultists approach MMY on tapes with this 
> attitude of hey, MMY, when are you coming out with the REAL 
> stuff...and MMY would consistently tell them: no, TM is the whole 
> shebang; that's all you need.  And yet they kept coming back 
> insisting it wasn't.
> 
> Well, the cultists won out.  They finally wore the old man down. 
> 
> I think he just got exhausted and said to himself: Well, I've been 
> telling 'em it's not a religion but they keep insisting it is and 
> treating me like a guru so I guess I gotta give 'em what they want.
> 
> And so you've got yagyas and religion and all that right up the ying-
> yang.
> 
> If TMO sycophants and meditators in general are going to, on MMY's 
> word, send the TMO oodles and oodles of cash for 5-minutes of yagyas, 
> then they are suckers, they're off the program, and they all deserve 
> to be parted from their last dime.  They were told right up front and 
> time and time and time again that this wasn't a religion but they 
> insisted that it was and that's what they got.
> 
> I feel more sympathy for the Nigerian email hustlers than I do for 
> the whole lot of TM cultists who have ruined this movement by 
> insisting on silliness like yagyas and spending thousands of dollars 
> on things that have nothing to do with the TM Program.
>

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

2007-04-25 Thread Vaj



On Apr 25, 2007, at 9:24 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:


MMY's use of science is as a marketing language with contempt for it
methods. When I spent a month with David OJ going over the research,
I got a front row seat on how the movement approaches science. They
are the pharmaceutical company using science as marketing who don't
want to hear any counter evidence to their assumptions about its
value. There is just too much money at stake. MMY is not open to the
possibility that he is wrong about any of his theories, so he is not
actually testing them. He lacks an openness to falsifiability and
this subverts the whole method as a way of getting to truth. This
methodology is fine for a religious believer. If MMY just stepped up
and dropped the scientific marketing front you and I never would have
met online. But in his contempt for the method he misses the
opportunity to advance our knowledge in some interesting areas.



If you could document your insights to this in more detail, I'm sure  
it would be helpful for the people who are still trying to extricate  
themselves from the whole, very seductive "scientific" marketing  
"we're not a religion" thing. Could you give any more specifics?


These are very important insights because they have the potential to  
help people gain some missing perspective. Many TMers and certainly  
most TB's believe TM "science" is genuine and sacrosanct. You are  
presenting an important alternative view with the potential to help  
people still swayed by misrepresentation and outright lies.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
> > >  wrote:
> > >  
> > > > My criticism of selling yagyas comes from its theory as well as
> > > > its practice.  I don't know of any plausible theory of how 
> > > > offering, smoke and food to statues of Indians mythological 
> > > > characters can have an effect on the world without proposing a 
> > > > magical connection.
> > > 
> > > Actually, there are quite a few theories floating
> > > around these days from highly credentialed, non-TM
> > > physicists that would allow for yagyas to have an
> > > effect on the world, along with a lot of other
> > > phenomena that you would call "magic."
> > 
> > I don't discount this Judy.  The world is a plenty magical place and
> > there is so much to discover. I think MMY has too many a priori
> > assumptions for me to believe that he is sincerely trying to find 
> > out what works and what doesn't.
> 
> That doesn't make sense, Curtis.  Why on earth
> would having a priori assumptions indicate a
> lack of sincerity?
> 
> He believes he knows how it all works behind
> the scenes.  What he's experimenting with is
> the implementation.  How could it be otherwise?
> Nobody's ever tried to accomplish what he wants
> to accomplish systematically on such a large
> scale, even those who share his a priori
> assumptions.  So he has to make it up as he
> goes along.
> 
> Whether he's making smart choices about what
> to try and how is another question.

MMY's use of science is as a marketing language with contempt for it
methods.  When I spent a month with David OJ going over the research,
I got a front row seat on how the movement approaches science.  They
are the pharmaceutical company using science as marketing who don't
want to hear any counter evidence to their assumptions about its
value. There is just too much money at stake.  MMY is not open to the
possibility that he is wrong about any of his theories, so he is not
actually testing them.  He lacks an openness to falsifiability and
this subverts the whole method as a way of getting to truth.  This
methodology is fine for a religious believer.  If MMY just stepped up
and dropped the scientific marketing front you and I never would have
met online.  But in his contempt for the method he misses the
opportunity to advance our knowledge in some interesting areas.

I don't get the sense that you approach science the way MMY does Judy.
 I think you understand the value of its method better, and are more
open to the possibility for theories to be proven wrong so we can get
to the ones that can be proven right. I don' think we are so far apart
on that issue.

Take pulse diagnosis for one.  It is easy to actually test to see if
it has medical merit. But these tests are not being done because the
possibility of it not being accurate is unthinkable for the movement.
 This approach continues into how TMO approaches yagyas.  They don't
care if they are getting the promised results.  I like the approach
you seem to be taking with the testing of different ideas for real. 
Unfortunately MMY does not approach knowledge with humility. He is a
"knower" like Bush is a "decider". And the surety of this identity is
both of their downfalls.

> 
> > But if others are putting in the time
> > and effort, more power to them.
> > 
> > > They all have to do with the nature and mechanics of
> > > consciousness, and while they approach the problem
> > > from different angles, they all appear to gravitate
> > > toward a view of reality that is remarkably similar
> > > to that of MMY and a whole bunch of ancient cultures.
> > > 
> > > These theories aren't yet mainstream, but they're
> > > moving in that direction.  Oh, and they all involve
> > > quantum mechanics in one way or another.
> > 
> > I think it will be left to people far more brilliant than me to sort
> > these relationships out.  When most people discuss quantum mechanics
> > from outside physics I think they are using physics terms in a sort 
> of
> > poetry.  I don't have the math tools necessary to really understand
> > what high level physics is saying about reality.  But your optimism
> > that it will serve as a great insight about reality is warranted.  
> But
> > as Clint Eastwood said in Dirty Harry " A man's got to know his
> > limitations." I know mine.
> 
> That goes for both of us. But my point is that
> just because you don't know about these kinds
> of theories doesn't mean they don't exist. So
> leave that door open a crack.

It is not that I am not aware of these theories in the poetic way non
mathematicians can approach these technical fields.  But I am not
convinced that the people discussing these field outside their
technical contexts are offering the most fruitful areas for man

[FairfieldLife] Re: 4 years to live

2007-04-25 Thread Patrick Gillam

I'm more worried about the bees going away than I am with the Christ
coming back. What does Creme say about honeybees?

> --- In nablusoss1008 wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Gillam"  
> wrote:
> >
> > "In 1923 Rudolf Steiner predicted the dire state of today's 
> honeybee.
> > He stated that, within fifty to eighty years, we would see the
> > consequences of mechanizing the forces that had previously operated
> > organically in the beehive. Such practices include breeding queen 
> bees
> > artificially.
> > 
> > http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880104570
> > 
> > Patrick writing: Steiner is said to have said in a lecture 
> that "that
> > which we experience within ourselves only at a time when our hearts
> > develop love is actually the very same thing that is present as a
> > substance in the entire beehive. The whole beehive is permeated with
> > life based on love. In many ways the bees renounce love, and thereby
> > this love develops within the entire beehive."
> > 
> > Back to the book review:
> > 
> > "The fact that over sixty percent of the American honeybee 
> population
> > has died during the past ten years, and that this trend is 
> continuing
> > around the world, should make us aware of the importance of the 
> issues
> > discussed in these lectures. Steiner began this series of lectures 
> on
> > bees in response to a question from an audience of workers at the
> > Goetheanum.
> > 
> > "From physical depictions of the daily activities of bees to the 
> most
> > elevated esoteric insights, these lectures describe the unconscious
> > wisdom of the beehive and its connection to our experience of 
> health,
> > culture, and the cosmos.
> > 
> > "Rudolf Steiner (Feb. 27, 1861Mar. 30, 1925) was born in Kraljevic,
> > Austria, where he grew up the son of a railroad station chief. As a
> > young man, he lived in Weimar and Berlin, where he became a 
> respected
> > and well-published scientific, literary, and philosophical scholar,
> > known especially for his work on Goethe's scientific writings. At 
> the
> > beginning of the twentieth century, he began to develop his earlier
> > philosophical principles into an approach to methodical research of
> > psychological and spiritual phenomena. Steiner formally began his
> > spiritual teaching career under the auspices of the Theosophical
> > Society, later referring to his spiritual research results and
> > philosophy as "Anthroposophy," or spiritual science. His 
> multifaceted
> > genius has led to innovative and holistic approaches in medicine,
> > philosophy, religion, education (Waldorf schools), special education
> > (the Camphill movement), economics, agriculture (biodynamics),
> > science, architecture, and the arts (drama, speech and eurythmy). In
> > 1924 he founded the General Anthroposophical Society, which has
> > branches throughout the world. He died in Dornach, Switzerland.
> > 
> > http://www.steinerbooks.org/detail.html?id=0880104570
> 
> Very interesting post; thank you Patrick! However the great influence 
> Steiner has had in many fields in the Western world his followers are 
> somewhat caught up in the past, as the following from Benjamin Creme 
> might explain :
> 
> 
> Q. Aren't there some other disciples who could be working as you do 
> to make known the Christ's presence? (Europe)
> A. There are five people who you might have thought would be key 
> people in the 4,000 people involved in this work around the world: 
> one in New York, me in London, one in Geneva, one in Darjeeling, one 
> in Tokyo, all chosen to be the first presenters. Around them would 
> gather more, so that it would become a worldwide happening. This 
> information would be coming from five points across the world from 
> New York to Tokyo, a brilliant plan, except that the one in New York 
> does not believe. He has been to my lectures several times but does 
> not believe the story. I am the one in London. The one in Geneva, 
> like the one in New York, does not believe the story. They are both 
> Christian mystics, influenced by people like Steiner who died before 
> the plan that it would be the Christ Himself was finalized. Steiner 
> was adamant that the Christ could not return in a physical body and 
> thought that when the Christ Principle awakened sufficiently in the 
> hearts of men, then we could say the Christ is in the world. This is 
> only one aspect of the Reappearance of the Christ. People who follow 
> Steiner have closed their minds to the very possibility of the 
> Reappearance of the Christ as a physical man in the world, quite 
> apart from all the 40 or so Masters Who are likewise coming. They 
> have done a disservice to the event. 
> 
> http://www.shareintl.org
>

[FairfieldLife] quantum coherence in plants ..

2007-04-25 Thread claudiouk

http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed=Science&article=UPI-1-
20070412-13515700-bc-us-energytransfer.xml

U.S. scientists have discovered how, through photosynthesis, solar 
energy is transferred across molecular systems with nearly 100-
percent efficiency.

Researchers at the U.S. Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley 
National Laboratory and the University of California-Berkeley say the 
answer lies in quantum mechanics.

The scientists found speed is the key for green plants and 
cyanobacteria to be able to transfer sunlight energy to molecular 
reaction centers for conversion into chemical energy, with the 
transfer occurring nearly instantaneously so little energy is wasted 
as heat.

"We have obtained the first direct evidence that remarkably long-
lived wavelike electronic quantum coherence plays an important part 
in energy transfer processes during photosynthesis," said Graham 
Fleming, principal investigator for the study. "This wavelike 
characteristic can explain the extreme efficiency of the energy 
transfer because it enables the system to simultaneously sample all 
the potential energy pathways and choose the most efficient one."

Fleming, deputy director of Berkeley Lab, and colleagues Gregory 
Engel, Tessa Calhoun, Elizabeth Read, Tae-Kyu Ahn, Tomas Mancal, Yuan-
Chung Cheng, and Robert Blankenship, report their findings in the 
current issue of the journal Nature.

Copyright 2007 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved.

[FairfieldLife] Re: "when one looks to the sky for rain, the rain falls"