Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
He doesn't want to talk about the Cathars anymore. You are forgetting your take-down of Barry over on alt.religion.gnostic where Barry got poked fun at for not realizing that bogomils are derived from Paulicans, Paulicans from Manicheans, Manicheans from Gnostics. thus Cathars are derived from Gnostics. Moggers can understand this simple fact, 'cletantra can't. - Klaus Schilling On 11/13/2013 5:26 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: *FWIW, when Barry first announced on alt.m.t that he was leaving the U.S. to live in Europe some years ago (2004? 2003? can't remember), he told us he was taking this step so he could write (or finish?) his novel about the Cathars.* * * *We haven't heard anything about that novel since, as far as I can recall.* *Seraphita wrote:* Re I'm in the same room of a castle, or in the courtyard of a large city like Carcassonne . . and Papal Palace in Avignon, realizing that I had not only been there before but been tortured (probably to death) there.: Aha! So you are claiming you were a Cathar in a previous life. As in The Cathars Reincarnation by Arthur Guirdham (first edition 1970) up to Labyrinth by Kate Mosse set both in the Middle Ages and present-day France and published in 2005. Two possibilities: 1) your imagination has been hyper-activated by reading too much on this popular theme. 2) you really were a Cathar and your present incarnation is a continuation of the spiritual life you led back then. So your interest in FFL. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: I was going to say this: If I was to find myself suddenly in a past-life - let's say in Elizabethan London - I'd take careful note of what clothes the people around me wore, what food they ate, what the houses looked like, etc. and then when I returned I'd check against the best-available historical evidence. Here's the thing though: if you were to have a past-life recall can you alter what you're thinking or doing? If it's a far-memory of you in a previous life is the you that's you in the 21st century having the recall able to change anything? I cannot speak to hypothetical situations like yours. I can only say what it was like for me. For me it was *not* like lucid dreaming, which I have practiced and gotten good enough at that I could change things in the dream to suit myself. The flashes I've had were all short-lived -- thirty seconds to at most a couple of minutes -- during which I was completely immersed in the scene. I *did* seem to have some volition, in that I could decide to try to talk to someone, and pull that off, but it was not the I'm in control of this vision kinda thang one experiences with lucid dreaming. I never sought any of these flashes, nor am I interested in doing so now. They just happened, almost always when I was in the physical location where the original events took place. That's the part that's so much FUN about whatever it is. I'm in the same room of a castle, or in the courtyard of a large city like Carcassonne, and one moment I'm here and now and the next I'm here and then. The overall scene doesn't change, just the details -- like what people are wearing, eating, etc. I guess I could have been more Sherlock Holmes-y about it, but frankly each time it's happened it's come as such a surprise and been so thoroughly entertaining that I just allowed myself to be entertained.
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
I wonder though, if it can be guaranteed that a future self will be any more wise than the current model, does the self model Mark II have any wisdom advantage over self model Mark I. If the self of the universe is considered to be absolute being, does it really evolve or grow? And if evolution means advancing to that state of experience, and one ends up as absolute being, essentially unchanging with the appearance only of change, have we gone forward or backward? Further the word 'self'. What exactly, is a 'self'? Is there really such a thing as a self? Science as not located anything that could be 'self' in the physiology; neuroscience seems to be tending to the idea that while there is a process going on in the brain, there is no such thing as a self inside. This is also a tenet of Buddhism, Buddha's central thesis is there is no self (small 's'), that it is a fiction. If we look to other traditions, such as M's, we find that, whatever the small self might be, it will dissolve and become the Self (with a big 'S'). Also, our ideas of what we are as 'a person' seem to lie behind our thinking about what self and Self is, that is, an intelligent, intentional entity of some kind that acts, but when we investigate, for example with meditation, we find an existential blank, undefined being. Since it is undefined as an experience, how could that be a self in the sense there is some-thing there, as we tend to think of a person? Transcendental consciousness, if we define that state with those words, is always the same, so it does not evolve. If that blank is the container of our experience, is it really a 'self'? For example, if we have a bowl of rice, and we remove the rice and just have the space for the rice in the bowl, is that space 'rice'? It would seem not. The bowl is certainly not rice, and without the rice it is not a 'bowl of rice', it's just a bowl. It just seems to me that whenever we try to define what a self is, or attempt to find one, it is not really there at all. Some quality was there, upon retroflection, as a memory, but it always seems to be an undefined quality. And when we look at ways 'Self', (with the big 'S') is described, it also tends to be a melange of contradictions. Example, in the Bhagavad-Gite, Krisha in describing the 'Self' at one point says 'I am the probability of the gambler's dice'. As a 'self' in the conventional sense, that certainly does not sound like a 'self'. Does all this mean that 'self', or 'Self', is not a very good way to describe what are, that is, is a ludicrous attempt to describe something or a state of being that is in reality very unlike what we are attempting define, attempting to define what is indefinable, and in so doing giving our-'selves' a misleading image? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: I think it's even possible that our future, way more evolved selves can, if needed, help our present day selves. : Yes, I like that idea. It crops up in occult circles where it is held that our personal Holy Guardian Angel is actually our future wise(r) self. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Seraphita, I think it's even possible that our future, way more evolved selves can, if needed, help our present day selves. I think Now contains past and future and it's just a matter of sufficient brain development for us to be able to live that reality. For example, finding old photos of ourselves can prompt us to put our attention helpfully on our younger self. That was an experience I had when my Mom accidently found pictures of my 9th birthday party.
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Seraphita wrote: (snip) Everything is hunky-dory exactly as it is. We (which includes me) don't see that as we judge everything from our own limited perspective. Which is hunky-dory exactly as it is.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Barry wrote: Why doesn't anyone who claims to remember their past lives ever claim to have been one of the scullery maids or janitors? Howcum they're all famous? Oh, there are plenty of people who remember lives as slaves and servants and beggars and so on. What's much more interesting than the social status, high or low, that folks claim for their past lives is that the vast majority of these lives were purportedly lived in historical times. You find very few folks remembering lives as anonymous hunter- gatherers or agricultural workers during the hundreds of thousands of years before humans figured out how to keep records.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
You really got to the office early today and already you've put Barry in his place. I can see who comes first on your agenda. Good work! Wasn't Barry the guy that remembered a past life over on a.m.t? Go figure. On 11/13/2013 7:40 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: *Barry wrote:* Why doesn't anyone who claims to remember their past lives ever claim to have been one of the scullery maids or janitors? Howcum they're all famous? *Oh, there are plenty of people who remember lives as slaves* *and servants and beggars and so on.* * * *What's much more interesting than the social status, high or* *low, that folks claim for their past lives is that the vast majority* *of these lives were purportedly lived /in historical times/.//You* *find very few folks remembering lives as anonymous hunter-* *gatherers or agricultural workers during the hundreds of* *thousands of years before humans figured out how to keep* *records.*
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Seraphita, I've never tried to change a past life event, not wanting to mess with karma, etc. But I have a friend who's reportedly in early Brahman Consciousness and he reportedly knows how to do that. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: Re Barry's As for the Jack The Ripper thang, how could anyone's past- life recollection shed any light on that unless they happened to be there, and in a position to have witnessed the events?: They could indeed have been the perpetrator or one of his victims. I was going to say this: If I was to find myself suddenly in a past-life - let's say in Elizabethan London - I'd take careful note of what clothes the people around me wore, what food they ate, what the houses looked like, etc. and then when I returned I'd check against the best-available historical evidence. Here's the thing though: if you were to have a past-life recall can you alter what you're thinking or doing? If it's a far-memory of you in a previous life is the you that's you in the 21st century having the recall able to change anything? Actually, I *am* living in Elizabethan London (Liz No 2 though) so perhaps I should take careful note of what's around me right now; then if my future self ever recalls this one I'll bring back useful info. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote: Thanks for your reply, Empty. For the record, that's exactly how my flashbacks have occurred as well. One moment I'm in the present, anticipating nothing out of the ordinary and expecting nothing, and the next moment I'm in the moment of another time and place, as a first person participant, able to move around and interact with others in the scene. It's weird, but fun. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Indeed, among New Agers there are some who believe they were xyz o'-so-important person. This is often cited as proof it is all phantasy. Tell that to Buddha and Patanjali, who musta been deluded by the Old Agers. If fact there are Westerners who see that as proof that Buddha and Patanjali were just indoctrinated Asians. Thus they say I don't believe the bullshit of those old bastards 'cause I ain't no fawning yoga-phant. As a case in point to Turq and Share, when I was 12 years old I was sitting at the kitchen table eating something. Suddenly I was a man sitting at an outdoor table drinking coffee in a smaller cup and reading a news paper. It was printed in gothic script. I especially remember the feeling of self-assurance along with the actual optical view of the street and the cars. Then suddenly I was sitting back at the kitchen table, feeling how good it was but unable to place that into an experiential framework. I never told my Southern Baptist parents because such things could never be real. Musta been the devil had a bulls-eye on my back 'cause as a 12 year old I was so important that he had to pre-condition me to receive the Hindu devils. But now I know the truth ... Seraph has liberated me from my illusion with good ol' Western psychologistic rationality. No need for experience when you've actually know the rational truth ... now that we have finally jettisoned neolithic myths. Eureka! ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com mailto:fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Re [empty's statement that]: The residual effect was that I taught myself how to conduct my conscious mind to see into past lives.: Look - if you and others could really access past-life information you could tell the rest of us stuff that wouldn't otherwise be explicable. The fact that you can't demonstrate such knowledge shows that your supposed recollection is a construction. I mean, think about it: if you could tell us (say) the true identity of Jack the Ripper you would get the Nobel Prize for Physics for overturning the current scientific paradigm. I think you're letting your Western sensibilities lead you astray. There *are* techniques for accessing memories of past lives, but don't confuse them with New Age Bullshit and I-Wish-I- Had-Been-Cleopatra-So-I'll-Claim-I-Was fantasies. Such real techniques tend to be taught only privately to students who can be trusted with them, and are usually preceded by a warning similar to Whatever you find out is likely to be interesting, but essentially a waste of your time, because it's all about the past. It's what you do Here And Now that is important, and counts. I have been exposed to such teachings, but didn't pursue them because frankly I wasn't interested. My personal past-life recollections always came upon me rather than me search- ing for them, and they always came in such a spectacular
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
FWIW, when Barry first announced on alt.m.t that he was leaving the U.S. to live in Europe some years ago (2004? 2003? can't remember), he told us he was taking this step so he could write (or finish?) his novel about the Cathars. We haven't heard anything about that novel since, as far as I can recall. Seraphita wrote: Re I'm in the same room of a castle, or in the courtyard of a large city like Carcassonne . . and Papal Palace in Avignon, realizing that I had not only been there before but been tortured (probably to death) there.: Aha! So you are claiming you were a Cathar in a previous life. As in The Cathars Reincarnation by Arthur Guirdham (first edition 1970) up to Labyrinth by Kate Mosse set both in the Middle Ages and present-day France and published in 2005. Two possibilities: 1) your imagination has been hyper-activated by reading too much on this popular theme. 2) you really were a Cathar and your present incarnation is a continuation of the spiritual life you led back then. So your interest in FFL. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita wrote: I was going to say this: If I was to find myself suddenly in a past-life - let's say in Elizabethan London - I'd take careful note of what clothes the people around me wore, what food they ate, what the houses looked like, etc. and then when I returned I'd check against the best-available historical evidence. Here's the thing though: if you were to have a past-life recall can you alter what you're thinking or doing? If it's a far-memory of you in a previous life is the you that's you in the 21st century having the recall able to change anything? I cannot speak to hypothetical situations like yours. I can only say what it was like for me. For me it was *not* like lucid dreaming, which I have practiced and gotten good enough at that I could change things in the dream to suit myself. The flashes I've had were all short-lived -- thirty seconds to at most a couple of minutes -- during which I was completely immersed in the scene. I *did* seem to have some volition, in that I could decide to try to talk to someone, and pull that off, but it was not the I'm in control of this vision kinda thang one experiences with lucid dreaming. I never sought any of these flashes, nor am I interested in doing so now. They just happened, almost always when I was in the physical location where the original events took place. That's the part that's so much FUN about whatever it is. I'm in the same room of a castle, or in the courtyard of a large city like Carcassonne, and one moment I'm here and now and the next I'm here and then. The overall scene doesn't change, just the details -- like what people are wearing, eating, etc. I guess I could have been more Sherlock Holmes-y about it, but frankly each time it's happened it's come as such a surprise and been so thoroughly entertaining that I just allowed myself to be entertained.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Yeah, I tend to see the flashy experiences the same way, *that* they are happening, and how to make that relevant to daily life, vs. getting hung up on the forensics. Practical application, whether it be immediate, or a longer term learning. I really appreciated your clear as day recollections of your soul/dharmic thread/jiva's past lives. You made it come alive, with this last recollection, horribly, yet I could really see it, and thank God, it is from the past. Or as you said, to paraphrase, a parallel slipstream, of space-time, easily engaged if one is open to whatever comes. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: If you had a flashback that convinced you you were Jack the Ripper in a previous life should you hand yourself in to the police? Could you count on the statute of limitations getting you off the hook? Could you claim in mitigation that you weren't yourself when you committed the murders? I'm going to comment on this, and leave the musings below to others. No offense, but the above stuff is way funny, and creative, and that tickles my funny bone. But -- having kinda been there done that with this experience -- theorizing about it doesn't really float my boat. I'm like that with many of my most interesting spiritual experiences. I was there. I experienced these things, some of them that fall into the Blade Runner I've seen things you people wouldn't believe category. But I can't tell you definitively what they were. Heck, I'm still trying to figure many of them out myself. Maybe it's a Buddhist thang. They were never all that interested in the why things are happening, only in *that* they are happening, and how to make the best of that. I'm kinda drawn that way myself. No one picked up on my alternative suggestion that memories of previous lives could be explained not by any one individual going through a serial succession of different life stories but rather could be explained as someone accessing our common, racial memory. By what mechanism? 1) Occultists talk about shells of the dead left behind in the astral realm. Really, though, the shells are used to explain what mediums access when they contact the recently deceased. The shells dissipate over time so wouldn't explain distant memories. 2) Memories are passed on through our DNA by some unknown mechanism? (This wouldn't work for Michael's recall of being a pious hermit in medieval France - unless he had a relapse into sinful passions - monks don't have kids.) Of course, the further back in time you peer the more common ancestors we all have. 3) All human (and non-human) life experiences are stored in the Akashic Records. This looks the most promising line to take. The advantage of this theory - that past-life memories are simply people accessing the Akashic field - are: (i) It explains why more than one person can claim to have memories of an historical figure. (ii) It fits better Buddhist ideas of anatta. (iii) It explains why Cleopatra pops up so much; her thumbprint on the Akashic field is bigger than most peoples. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@ wrote: fwiw, I figured we had all been in a previous life together and then a healer mentioned that out of the blue about a month ago. My intuition says Atlantis but I've not had any experiences to confirm. Hope we get it right this time around (-: On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 10:47 AM, TurquoiseB turquoiseb@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Sounds like a dream while being awake. Any slippage into another time dimension makes it seem probable these dimensions exist simultaneously with the present. Personally, I suspect this is the case. That is, that all of these events are happening simultaneously, and that something just occasionally enables us to step from one pseudo-timestream to another. I wonder what it is in our brains or in the frequency of the dimensions called time that causes a momentary ability to be able to see sine past event. And are you sure it is a former you that is participating or simply the current you who has slipped, temporarily, into another time frequency and can simply see what happened back then in that spot? Again, I cannot speak to anyone else's experience, or to theory or hypotheticals. For me, this experience (whatever TF it was) always had a strong sense of I being identified with the person whose eyes and ears I was using to witness the scene. Whatever the case or the reason it is something I would like to experience as long as it didn't freak me out too much or the event wasn't too violent. There have been the occasional violent flashback, but for some reason they didn't really freak me out. Probably the most violent was in a basement room of the Papal Palace in Avignon,
RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Oy! I just got it Judy! Duh! Well I've always thought of myself as an early morning person and imho, that explains a lot. sigh...I'm never gonna be the sharpest tack in the FFL box but that's ok with me. How boring it would be if we were all the same. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Right, I'm threatened because you stupidly got something I said wrong and can't bring yourself to admit it. Share, I know you're trying your best, but really... Think, honey, think. Don't just blather. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Next step, Judy resorts to ridicule. But why? Why does she feel so threatened? And so often? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: (giggle) Poor baby. Share boo-hooed: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Good for you, Share. I don't think this was easy for you to acknowledge. Thank you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Oy! I just got it Judy! Duh! Well I've always thought of myself as an early morning person and imho, that explains a lot. sigh...I'm never gonna be the sharpest tack in the FFL box but that's ok with me. How boring it would be if we were all the same. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Right, I'm threatened because you stupidly got something I said wrong and can't bring yourself to admit it. Share, I know you're trying your best, but really... Think, honey, think. Don't just blather. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Next step, Judy resorts to ridicule. But why? Why does she feel so threatened? And so often? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: (giggle) Poor baby. Share boo-hooed: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
You're welcome, Judy and I wrote the email as soon as I realized what I had been missing. It did not feel at all hard to do. Go figure! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Good for you, Share. I don't think this was easy for you to acknowledge. Thank you. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Oy! I just got it Judy! Duh! Well I've always thought of myself as an early morning person and imho, that explains a lot. sigh...I'm never gonna be the sharpest tack in the FFL box but that's ok with me. How boring it would be if we were all the same. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Right, I'm threatened because you stupidly got something I said wrong and can't bring yourself to admit it. Share, I know you're trying your best, but really... Think, honey, think. Don't just blather. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Next step, Judy resorts to ridicule. But why? Why does she feel so threatened? And so often? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: (giggle) Poor baby. Share boo-hooed: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Richard, my online Calgary buddy sent me a photo this morning of a bird sipping water from a pool of water. Then I got it! The bird is real. But so is his reflection in the pool of water. But it's real as a reflection not as a 3 D bird. My whole brain feels better (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 11:47 PM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: To be accurate, Adwaita Vedanta holds that maya is not real, yet it is not unreal (in the sense that it is resented to you). An illusion is not absolutely real because it is not based on permanence, but an illusion is real because it is just false knowledge, like in a dream, or mistaking a rope for a snake. For those well versed in the Vedaanta the world is like a city of Gaandharvas - an illusion. Source: 'Gaudapada' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaudapada On 11/11/2013 1:57 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: But where did the quote come from? If Tom Egnes is the source, then Tom = Veda, and we can skip Indian literature altogether. Another version of the idea is 'The world is unreal; Brahman is real; the world is Brahman'. This seems to be translation of a quotation by Shankara commenting on one of the Upanishads, but I do not know which one. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, I googled on brahman maya and there were lots of hits. There were also a lot of hits under brahman maya relationship. It seems to be quite controversial, some saying maya is not real and others saying it is real. And my favorite was the teacher who said it's pointless to try and understand it until one is enlightened. But I find it enjoyable to let the brain play with these ideas. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:30 PM, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Two birds sat in a tree; one ate the fruit; another looked on. - Shvetashvatara Upanishad, 4.7 On 11/12/2013 10:03 AM, Share Long wrote: Richard, my online Calgary buddy sent me a photo this morning of a bird sipping water from a pool of water. Then I got it! The bird is real. But so is his reflection in the pool of water. But it's real as a reflection not as a 3 D bird. My whole brain feels better (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 11:47 PM, Richard J. Williams pundits...@gmail.com wrote: To be accurate, Adwaita Vedanta holds that maya is not real, yet it is not unreal (in the sense that it is resented to you). An illusion is not absolutely real because it is not based on permanence, but an illusion is real because it is just false knowledge, like in a dream, or mistaking a rope for a snake. For those well versed in the Vedaanta the world is like a city of Gaandharvas - an illusion. Source: 'Gaudapada' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaudapada On 11/11/2013 1:57 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com mailto:anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: But where did the quote come from? If Tom Egnes is the source, then Tom = Veda, and we can skip Indian literature altogether. Another version of the idea is'The world is unreal; Brahman is real; the world is Brahman'. This seems to be translation of a quotation by Shankara commenting on one of the Upanishads, but I do not know which one. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, I googled on brahman maya and there were lots of hits. There were also a lot of hits under brahman maya relationship. It seems to be quite controversial, some saying maya is not real and others saying it is real. And my favorite was the teacher who said it's pointless to try and understand it until one is enlightened. But I find it enjoyable to let the brain play with these ideas. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:30 PM, Share Long sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... wrote: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... authfriend@... mailto:authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... mailto:sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... anartaxius@... mailto:anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Seraphita wrote: Re How do you know they weren't challenged, but the challenges were overruled? Do you ever click the Talk tab at the top of a Wikipedia page to read the discussions among the editors?: No - I hadn't noticed the Talk tab before! I've learned something new. Having clicked on said tab I see one (would-be) contributor says . . . I made some additions and changes to this very one-sided and skeptic/negative article (see history). They were deleted very fast (3 minutes) and without any comment . . . so clearly the sceptics/skeptics are in the dominant position on this topic. I don't know that that single example indicates this clearly. There's a lot of stuff on that Talk page, but I'm not inclined to go through it. There are senior editors who have more authority than pipsqueaks who decide they're going to pop in and change things around their way; they don't usually get very far unless they have very solid documentation. But well-informed, careful folks with good sources and a convincing argument can often make a difference. On a controversial topic, balance is considered a virtue. This is the key problem with Wikipedia: who finally has the upper hand in these disputes? I give Wiki credit though for at least letting us see the debates going on behind the scenes. Sometimes the debates can be excruciating and endless, with some particularly acrimonious disputes being spun off to be adjudicated by a more authoritative body. In many cases who wins depends on who can dig up the best evidence, but that isn't always cut-and-dried. Wikipedia has elaborate rules about what kinds of sources are acceptable, and those rules are also subject to debate as to whether they apply in specific cases. I don't have the patience to participate, but I do often look at Talk pages on controversial topics. You really have to be pretty dedicated to deal with it all. It's quite a subculture. With other encyclopedias it's more like Moses coming down the mountain with the engraved tablets. Which some prefer, I guess. I think Wikipedia's existence is not far short of a miracle. It's certainly not perfect, but it would be hard to live without at this point, IMHO. Some here whose opinions and/or facts have been challenged based on information gleaned from Wikipedia tend to disparage it, but that's more because they don't like being challenged than because they have genuine complaints about its reliability. ---In fairfieldlife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: How do you know they weren't challenged, but the challenges were overruled? Do you ever click the Talk tab at the top of a Wikipedia page to read the discussions among the editors? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, s3raphita@... wrote: There's a highly sceptical account of past-life regression on Wiki. (I wonder how some of these Wiki entries aren't challenged by those who beg to differ.) The conclusion is: scientific consensus is that the memories are the result of cryptomnesia, narratives created by the subconscious mind using imagination, forgotten information and suggestions from the therapist. I have often thought, though, that past-life regression therapy would be a shoo-in for a horror-movie plot. The sinister hypno-therapist who comes up with a criminal scheme to exploit a victim by persuading him that he had lived a particular life in a previous existence . . . H. Is there an email address where people can pitch film ideas to Hollywood producers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_life_regression
[FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Seraphita wrote: (snip) Re In Buddhism, the “self” is the ego (the “I”) – a conceptual construct that is quite unreal. In Advaita, the Self is the only “truly Real” and is the basis of all concepts.: So what you're saying is that Buddhists and Vedantists have been talking at cross- purposes for centuries when they speak of the s/Self: how comical is that? Seems to me anyone who is familiar with both traditions understands that they each deny true reality to the self (lower-case) but differ as to whether there is a Self (capitalized). However, it's awfully tempting to equate Nirvana with the Self (Atman/Brahman). From the Udana, attributed to the Buddha: There is, monks, that plane where there is neither extension, nor motion, nor the plane of infinite ether nor that of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, neither this world nor another, neither the moon nor the sun. Here, monks, I say that there is no coming or going or remaining or deceasing or uprising, for this is itself without support, without continuance in samsara, without mental object - this is itself the end of suffering. There is, monks, an unborn, not become, unmade, uncompounded, and were it not, monks, for this unborn, not become, not made, uncompounded, no escape could be shown here for what is born, has become, is made, is compounded. But because there is, monks, an unborn, not become, unmade, uncompounded, therefore an escape can be shown, for what is born, has become, is made, is compounded. http://buddha-dharma.net/contributions/buddhism%26vedanta.html http://buddha-dharma.net/contributions/buddhism%26vedanta.html Also interesting are the apparent parallels between the descriptions of Brahman/the Uncompounded and the descriptions of God in classical theism (e.g., Aquinas). Of course, the map is not the territory, but the territory seems to have given rise to remarkably similar conceptual maps in this regard. Finally, according to Maharishi, Maya is that which is not--but the illusion involved is not that Maya is not real, but rather that it isn't Brahman. (Fire when ready, empty. You da man here.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
OTOH, in the Veda it's written: Brahman says, My indestructible maya. And Maharishi has explained that at the deepest level of every cell of our body, Purusha IS Prakriti. I think it can be understood from this perspective from Maharishi: knowledge is different in different state of consciousness. On Monday, November 11, 2013 8:33 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: Seraphita wrote: (snip) Re In Buddhism, the “self” is the ego (the “I”) – a conceptual construct that is quite unreal. In Advaita, the Self is the only “truly Real” and is the basis of all concepts.: So what you're saying is that Buddhists and Vedantists have been talking at cross- purposes for centuries when they speak of the s/Self: how comical is that? Seems to me anyone who is familiar with both traditions understands that they each deny true reality to the self (lower-case) but differ as to whether there is a Self (capitalized). However, it's awfully tempting to equate Nirvana with the Self (Atman/Brahman). From the Udana, attributed to the Buddha: There is, monks, that plane where there is neither extension, nor motion, nor the plane of infinite ether nor that of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, neither this world nor another, neither the moon nor the sun. Here, monks, I say that there is no coming or going or remaining or deceasing or uprising, for this is itself without support, without continuance in samsara, without mental object - this is itself the end of suffering. There is, monks, an unborn, not become, unmade, uncompounded, and were it not, monks, for this unborn, not become, not made, uncompounded, no escape could be shown here for what is born, has become, is made, is compounded. But because there is, monks, an unborn, not become, unmade, uncompounded, therefore an escape can be shown, for what is born, has become, is made, is compounded. http://buddha-dharma.net/contributions/buddhism%26vedanta.html Also interesting are the apparent parallels between the descriptions of Brahman/the Uncompounded and the descriptions of God in classical theism (e.g., Aquinas). Of course, the map is not the territory, but the territory seems to have given rise to remarkably similar conceptual maps in this regard. Finally, according to Maharishi, Maya is that which is not--but the illusion involved is not that Maya is not real, but rather that it isn't Brahman. (Fire when ready, empty. You da man here.)
RE: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
OTOH?? Read what I wrote again, Share. Share fumbled: OTOH, in the Veda it's written: Brahman says, My indestructible maya. And Maharishi has explained that at the deepest level of every cell of our body, Purusha IS Prakriti. (snip) I wrote: Finally, according to Maharishi, Maya is that which is not--but the illusion involved is not that Maya is not real, but rather that it isn't Brahman.
Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Judy, from what I noted, Maharishi said that Brahman is maya. You wrote that Maharishi said that Brahman is not maya. Maybe it's simply a case of the teacher contradicting himself so that the students don't get trapped in intellectual understanding. On Monday, November 11, 2013 11:17 AM, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: OTOH?? Read what I wrote again, Share. Share fumbled: OTOH, in the Veda it's written: Brahman says, My indestructible maya. And Maharishi has explained that at the deepest level of every cell of our body, Purusha IS Prakriti. (snip) I wrote: Finally, according to Maharishi, Maya is that which is not--but the illusion involved is not that Maya is not real, but rather that it isn't Brahman.
RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Read what I wrote again, dimwit. HINT: Read all the words. When you see where you made your mistake, let us know, OK? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Judy, from what I noted, Maharishi said that Brahman is maya. You wrote that Maharishi said that Brahman is not maya. Maybe it's simply a case of the teacher contradicting himself so that the students don't get trapped in intellectual understanding. On Monday, November 11, 2013 11:17 AM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: OTOH?? Read what I wrote again, Share. Share fumbled: OTOH, in the Veda it's written: Brahman says, My indestructible maya. And Maharishi has explained that at the deepest level of every cell of our body, Purusha IS Prakriti. (snip) I wrote: Finally, according to Maharishi, Maya is that which is not--but the illusion involved is not that Maya is not real, but rather that it isn't Brahman.
RE: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
RE: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Xeno, I googled on brahman maya and there were lots of hits. There were also a lot of hits under brahman maya relationship. It seems to be quite controversial, some saying maya is not real and others saying it is real. And my favorite was the teacher who said it's pointless to try and understand it until one is enlightened. But I find it enjoyable to let the brain play with these ideas. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:30 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfri...@yahoo.com authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
(giggle) Poor baby. Share boo-hooed: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
But where did the quote come from? If Tom Egnes is the source, then Tom = Veda, and we can skip Indian literature altogether. Another version of the idea is 'The world is unreal; Brahman is real; the world is Brahman'. This seems to be translation of a quotation by Shankara commenting on one of the Upanishads, but I do not know which one. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, I googled on brahman maya and there were lots of hits. There were also a lot of hits under brahman maya relationship. It seems to be quite controversial, some saying maya is not real and others saying it is real. And my favorite was the teacher who said it's pointless to try and understand it until one is enlightened. But I find it enjoyable to let the brain play with these ideas. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:30 PM, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Xeno, Tom does not equal Veda for me but I did trust him as a professor. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:57 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: But where did the quote come from? If Tom Egnes is the source, then Tom = Veda, and we can skip Indian literature altogether. Another version of the idea is 'The world is unreal; Brahman is real; the world is Brahman'. This seems to be translation of a quotation by Shankara commenting on one of the Upanishads, but I do not know which one. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, I googled on brahman maya and there were lots of hits. There were also a lot of hits under brahman maya relationship. It seems to be quite controversial, some saying maya is not real and others saying it is real. And my favorite was the teacher who said it's pointless to try and understand it until one is enlightened. But I find it enjoyable to let the brain play with these ideas. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:30 PM, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Next step, Judy resorts to ridicule. But why? Why does she feel so threatened? And so often? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: (giggle) Poor baby. Share boo-hooed: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Right. I'm threatened because you stupidly got something I said wrong and can't bring yourself to admit it. Share, I know you're trying your best, but really... Think, honey, think. Don't just blather. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Next step, Judy resorts to ridicule. But why? Why does she feel so threatened? And so often? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: (giggle) Poor baby. Share boo-hooed: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
RE: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
I'm rootin' for you Share. I'm slow on the uptake too, but I think I got this one. The clue is: Read *all* the words, as Judy has pointed out. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Read what I wrote again, dimwit. HINT: Read all the words. When you see where you made your mistake, let us know, OK? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Judy, from what I noted, Maharishi said that Brahman is maya. You wrote that Maharishi said that Brahman is not maya. Maybe it's simply a case of the teacher contradicting himself so that the students don't get trapped in intellectual understanding. On Monday, November 11, 2013 11:17 AM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: OTOH?? Read what I wrote again, Share. Share fumbled: OTOH, in the Veda it's written: Brahman says, My indestructible maya. And Maharishi has explained that at the deepest level of every cell of our body, Purusha IS Prakriti. (snip) I wrote: Finally, according to Maharishi, Maya is that which is not--but the illusion involved is not that Maya is not real, but rather that it isn't Brahman.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Maybe things were just slow around the office this afternoon. LoL! On 11/11/2013 3:11 PM, sharelon...@yahoo.com wrote: Next step, Judy resorts to ridicule. But why? Why does she feel so threatened? And so often? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: *(giggle) Poor baby.* Share boo-hooed: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
I sent this at 10:30 this morning. It was posted at 4:18 pm. It must be a sign. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emilymaenot@... wrote: I'm rootin' for you Share. I'm slow on the uptake too, but I think I got this one. The clue is: Read *all* the words, as Judy has pointed out. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: Read what I wrote again, dimwit. HINT: Read all the words. When you see where you made your mistake, let us know, OK? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Judy, from what I noted, Maharishi said that Brahman is maya. You wrote that Maharishi said that Brahman is not maya. Maybe it's simply a case of the teacher contradicting himself so that the students don't get trapped in intellectual understanding. On Monday, November 11, 2013 11:17 AM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: OTOH?? Read what I wrote again, Share. Share fumbled: OTOH, in the Veda it's written: Brahman says, My indestructible maya. And Maharishi has explained that at the deepest level of every cell of our body, Purusha IS Prakriti. (snip) I wrote: Finally, according to Maharishi, Maya is that which is not--but the illusion involved is not that Maya is not real, but rather that it isn't Brahman.
RE: RE: RE: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Right, I'm threatened because you stupidly got something I said wrong and can't bring yourself to admit it. Share, I know you're trying your best, but really... Think, honey, think. Don't just blather. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Next step, Judy resorts to ridicule. But why? Why does she feel so threatened? And so often? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend@... wrote: (giggle) Poor baby. Share boo-hooed: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: RE: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
To be accurate, Adwaita Vedanta holds that maya is not real, yet it is not unreal (in the sense that it is resented to you). An illusion is not absolutely real because it is not based on permanence, but an illusion is real because it is just false knowledge, like in a dream, or mistaking a rope for a snake. For those well versed in the Vedaanta the world is like a city of Gaandharvas - an illusion. Source: 'Gaudapada' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaudapada On 11/11/2013 1:57 PM, anartax...@yahoo.com wrote: But where did the quote come from? If Tom Egnes is the source, then Tom = Veda, and we can skip Indian literature altogether. Another version of the idea is'The world is unreal; Brahman is real; the world is Brahman'. This seems to be translation of a quotation by Shankara commenting on one of the Upanishads, but I do not know which one. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, I googled on brahman maya and there were lots of hits. There were also a lot of hits under brahman maya relationship. It seems to be quite controversial, some saying maya is not real and others saying it is real. And my favorite was the teacher who said it's pointless to try and understand it until one is enlightened. But I find it enjoyable to let the brain play with these ideas. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:30 PM, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: I haven't figured it out. I didn't reply to you before because you resorted to name calling. On Monday, November 11, 2013 1:25 PM, authfriend@... authfriend@... wrote: So, Share, have you figured out where you made your mistake with OTOH in response to what I said? No? Or do you just not want to admit it? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sharelong60@... wrote: Xeno, fyi, I have Hellman's REAL Mayonnaise in my frig, wouldn't use anything else for tuna fish salad! As for the quote, MUM Sanskrit professor Dr. Tom Egenes shared it with our class during the 91-92 school year when I was taking the MA in SCI. It's one of those phrases that stuck with me because it's so unexpected, paradoxical, koany, etc. Some say that maya ruled by tamas guna is a covering, ruled by rajo guma is a veil. But maya ruled by sat guna, it actually said to be a ladder to ultimate reality. Go figure (-: On Monday, November 11, 2013 12:45 PM, anartaxius@... anartaxius@... wrote: Does anyone here know the source of the quote My indestructible Maya? On the Internet I find just a small collection of websites, FFL principally, mentioning the phrase, but no precise source. Since Share quoted it, I assume that she is picking it out of her memory rather than from a source text. I recall the phrase, but my feeble aging brain, cannot recall where I read or otherwise heard it. Is this translated phrase from the Vedas (and which one? Rig, etc.), the Upanishads, or the Bhagavad-Gita? (in particular the MMY translation of the latter) Whether Maya is real or not, it is certainly present here on FFL. I have seen this product in refrigerators of meditators, Vegenaise, a non animal derived product purporting to replace mayonnaise. Maybe itshould be called Mayannaise instead, except people would probably confuse it with the Mayan civilisation of Central America. But then, confusion is the whole purpose of Maya. Gotta love this universe for beating us up this way.
[FairfieldLife] RE: Re: Transcendental Meditation Revolutionary Mission:
Barry wrote: (snip) Take the so-called Bodhisattva Vow. Essentially, it is declaring to oneself and to the world one's intention to not allow oneself to become enlightened oneself until all sentient beings are enlightened. Sounds good on the surface, but step back for a moment and consider the HUBRIS of such a statement. To make it, you have to believe 1) that you have the *ability* to help bring all beings to enlightenment (can't get more hubristic than that), 2) that it is your *right* to modify these sentient beings life in accord with how you think they should be, and 3) that the universe actually gives a shit what you believe or what you vow. I wonder what percentage of people who take the Bodhisattva Vow actually believe any of this, consciously or subconsciously (especially 2, if how you think they should be refers to anything but Nirvana).. It's also interesting that the person who wrote the paragraph has been very insistent here that preoccupation with one's own enlightenment to the exclusion of caring about others is also the height of egoism. You just can't win, I guess. Postponing your enlightenment for the sake of others is nothing but ego; pursuing your enlightenment without concern for others is nothing but ego.
