Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Spirit & Reincarnation
The content as you say is not uninteresting, but there is a lot of it, and also, how you understand what you post is also a consideration. When we post things here, it shows our understanding (or lack of it) of the subject in the post, and this is what results in discussions, because people even generally in agreement often understand details differently. I you just copy and post, no understanding is involved and the benefit is slight. From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Spirit & Reincarnation yup, Gulati seems un-reformed by yahoo-groups guidelines. I was sort of enjoying the spiritual substance of the posts but this is a yahoo-group mandated to be moderated by yahoo guidelines. In moderation I had given him a lot of rope. JaiGuruYou, Dug Jung-Un ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <archonan...@yahoo.com> wrote : This is just SPAM You are SPAMMING this Yahoo group, plus this content, which is not original, is just copied from other websites. The Yahoo guidelines state that you should post ORIGINAL content. If you have something to say, say it and if you want to make a link to other people's content, then put in a link. This stuff you are sending here to Fairfield Life is also being sent to a couple hundred other people and groups if the addresses in the e-mail headers are any indication. It seems to be an attempt to get people to link to a particular website. So I am asking the moderator here to block this poster (devindersingh gulati dgulh...@yahoo.com), after due consideration. From: "devindersingh gulati dgulh...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> To: Take for example a very big scientist dies today and that means thatall that he had learnt, he might have read hundreds of books, he mighthave collected a lot of information in his brain, all that suddenlycollapses. And if you believe in rebirth, he takes a new birthsupposing, then all this information does not go with him, it is alllost. But what he had gained in the form of experience that remains. Andeven today the way in which he will react to his surroundings, evenfrom his childhood will bear the imprint of that experience because whatis important is not the information that is stored but the experiencethat is gained. And that is why in the law of evolution; memory of pastlives is deliberately taken away, because if it goes on hanging it willbe a burden for the further growth. What is retained is the experiencegained and that is never taken away. You may say this is samskaras butthis is more than samskaras. Samskaras are also the impressions whichare created at birth and various kinds of attitudes are also samskaras.But also what is received from your past births, samskara, is a part ofthat experience. What is important in any given situation for anindividual is the experience that he or she is gaining.The basic experience that one has to gain in life is theinterrelationship of body, life and mind. How they can be controlled,how they can be perfected, so that ultimately the Original Will canmanifest without obstructions. This is the fundamental thing to belearnt. All else is only instrument of it or helpful aid towards it. Onemay do hundreds of things but if this does not happen then one does notreally grow on the right lines. One goes on repeating on and on, onedoes not grow inwardly. To grow inwardly is to understand therelationship between body, life and mind and how they can be harmonized,how they can be perfected so that ultimately the Original Will canmanifest without obstructions. And if you take karma, any action thatyou are doing with this attitude, to learn out of the karma this, notmany other things which one can learn fundamentally, then in a shortertime you can attain to the goal. That again is a part of Karma Yoga.All yoga is shortening the time. As Vivekananda said, Yoga isacceleration of experience so that what can be gained normally withinhundred years can be done in six months’ time, in a shorter time. If youknow the real purpose as to why what is happening to me what am I tolearn from it and if you really concentrate upon it then one can growvery rapidly. It is like a gardener who understands how to allow theplants to grow, what is needed for the plants and you supply to theplants and they will grow much better. The Life Divine – Book I – Chapter XXIIhttp://www.kireetjoshiarchives.com/audio-video/audio.php?category=rebirth-and-other-worlds=490 Gulati On Saturday, 8 April 2017 8:55 AM, "devindersingh gulati dgulh...@yahoo.com [TheBecoming]" <thebecom...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: Our first will was to agree to enter into this game by which the DivineTotality can be manifested in the embo
[FairfieldLife] Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Spirit & Reincarnation
So when we, we are a swirling movement of egoistic consciousness around a formation which is constantly fluctuating believing we are independent but which we are never. It is in this falsity that we continually go on living all the time.The soul knows and is aware of this whole business. And if it wills it can immediately invade the whole thing and break the egoism altogether. But it does not because the purpose is to create embodied condition. Because if it breaks prematurely, the embodiment might itself break, the formation itself may break and therefore it does not invade. That is the law imposed upon the soul that it will not invade directly. The soul therefore lives like an exiled king. The kingdom is the kingdom of body, life and mind of which soul is the real king but ego has usurped the kingdom of the soul and rules as if he is the king. And the soul, knowing all this remains behind like an exiled king. And according to the law imposed upon it that consent must come from below, from body, life and mind and aspiration must rise from here, then in answer to that the soul can invade. That is why the need for aspiration from below. The greater the aspiration here, the greater will be the soul coming to the front. The screen will be thinned. In some moments of great aspiration, the screen may suddenly snap and we may come directly into contact with the soul, even our ego can experience the soul, our mind can also experience and the soul itself may manifest for some time. But if the outer being is thick, the snapping is only for a momentary time and again it may close and this happens to us when we are transported into an experience where everything becomes alive, everything appears so intimate, all sense of separation disappears. A tremendous perception of the Divine appears before us. But after sometime it again disappears. But this memory is very important, through the memory we can again go back to it.What the soul does is to the extent to which the body, life and mind aspire for the rule of the soul; it puts forward its energy, soul energy. Putting forth of the soul energy creates a formation of the soul. This formation is called the psychic being as distinct from the psychic entity which is the soul. Psychic being has individuality, it’s a formation, it is a packet of soul energy. Something of Para Prakriti as distinguished from tamas, rajas and sattva begins to enter into the tamas, rajas and sattva movement. It is an infiltration, invasion of the soul on the body life and mind.In the beginning this formation is very small. Therefore the Kathopnishad calls it angushtamatram, not bigger than the thumb because the soul formation in the beginning is a small formation depending upon the aspiration of the body, life and mind. This individuality of the psychic being if it grows more and more then even the mind, life and body also get affected and their formations become more and more in the image of that individuality. Instead of the egoistic individuality they have a stamp of the psychic individuality. But this is a very long process and in one life time it is ordinarily not possible to complete the whole cycle in which the psychic being can fully develop its individuality and can stamp itself on body, life and mind so that the body, life and mind become psychicised, so to say.To remove the ego individuality and to develop the soul individuality, and to manifest the totality of the Divine in body, life and mind is the real purpose of our being here on earth and until that is done we are obliged to come back again and again, birth after birth. In this process, an important stage is reached when we begin to become aware of the immortality of the soul. Our outer being, body, life and mind and ego which are ignorant of the soul when they begin to become aware of the presence of the soul and the immortality of the inextinguishable soul, it realizes that the soul is immortal. Now this awareness is a very important stage of development. Normally, we are all the time in a sense of insecurity; our whole life is full of anxiety and fear because we feel fear of disintegration. Nothing in the world is as dangerous to us as a threat of our personal disintegration. This is the main anxiety of every human being and what every human being is doing is to build up its formation. And he is constantly building up for fear of disintegration; even when you form the body, how much the mother has to take care of the child to see that the body formation and a good, sound formation and is very worried about any process by which sickness may come, dislocation of the body may come disintegration of the body may come about. And our constant fear is to make the body as capable of integration as possible, similarly, of our mind formation, our life formation. Attempt is to make our body, life, and mind as much integrated as possible. And that is because our mission
[FairfieldLife] Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Spirit & Reincarnation
The third is what is the process of rebirth? It is here that the other worlds than the physical become relevant. The jivatman itself does not enter into the human body and is therefore called ‘ajanma’, he in unborn. What is born is its delegate, the soul. He puts forward his Agni, a spark from itself and it is the spark which has all the potentiality of all that is in the jivatman; its specific work, the entirety of Divinity, is entirely present in the delegate, the soul. But it does not force itself and impose itself upon the various formations of body, life and mind. This you might say is the law of the game. Jivatman is in Truth Consciousness and its real station is in Para Prakriti. So if you enter into Para Prakriti you find your true self there. But even at lower planes you can experience it. When you rise above your consciousness you do experience it also. But its fullness, the Divine soul in its fullness is only on the Truth plane and Supramental. Transcendental is the Lord Himself of which jivatman is the individual centration. And there are many centrations, each distinct from the others and they are all eternal centrations. But they are not independent, not separate but distinct. Therefore, the soul does not have abhiman which the ego has got. The distinctness does not amount to separation so far as soul consciousness is concerned.In the egoistic consciousness I am not only distinct from all the others but independent from others at least that is and that is what creates abhiman. Therefore it is called the false notion of the self because there is nothing corresponding to it. When we speak of individuality we speak of the soul individuality which is distinct from the other soul, distinctness but which is inseparable from the Divine. It is the one that is many you might say and whenever you go into the transcendental you see ekatvam pashyata sarvatra, you see oneness everywhere. And at that level you can also see that distinctness which is here which you call your distinctness and the distinctness in her I experience as my own distinctness. It is not as if someone were to have two distinctnesses because it is the Supreme Lord’s own distinctness. Supreme Lord is only one. So I have no illusion of being so distinct from the other that I am completely different from the other and completely indifferent of the other. This is the experience we are entitled to get in our Truth.When we have in the image of Raasleela of Sri Krishna where each Gopi is distinct from the other and each Gopi is having an experience of the Supreme Lord exclusively but also she sees that the same Lord with every Gopi and even herself is only one of the distinctive manifestations and all the others are equal manifestations of the same Lord. It is this consciousness of individuality that is to be manifested while embodied. Before we got embodied at the Supreme level we already had this consciousness and it is this always present. The individuality is to be manifested while embodied. It is never abolished. Even today if you can happen to go into a state of consciousness by whatever means you will see yourself in that Raasleela as a partner of that Supreme Divine. The jivatman is ever free but in this play of the body, life and mind movement, it sends its delegate the soul, a spark because of the specific purpose, to have the same experience in the embodied form. Therefore in the embodied form it has to happen gradually. And the connecting link is the soul, the Agni, the spark. It is the Agni as it were the real individual. It has no egoistic consciousness. It has the consciousness of being distinct from the others but not that it is separate from others. It is also aware that it is constituted of Para Prakriti. It has the direct Truth consciousness. It has potentiality of the whole of the centration of the Divine. It knows its mission as to why it is here in the embodied form. But our body, life, mind and ego are not aware of the soul. The soul is aware of them. But our body, life, mind and egoistic formation are so absorbed in themselves that they have no time even to look behind. And this ego makes us believe that we are we and because of the jumping movement of egoistic consciousness all the time goes on revolving round and round like a monkey all the time, jumping about it prevents us from entering into the Truth Consciousness.There is a screen created by virtue of this exclusive concentration of consciousness on the egoistic formation. Keeps us absorbed in our activities of body, life and mind, of our limited formations and making us believe that we are this and nothing else and it is our business to protect ourselves as against others. So it protects itself from the whole universe, protects itself against the soul which is behind it. It is a double wall it has created. We do not know the world either because ego does not open itself to the whole universe. It
[FairfieldLife] Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Spirit & Reincarnation
It is Shirish Dave who wrote rebirth is wishful thinking. I am arguing for rebirth. The second question is what is the necessity of rebirth?One who is reborn is the soul that is reborn, and while taking rebirth it may have discarded the previous personalities altogether because they are no more necessary for future growth and future potentialities to develop. Or it may take help of whatever was formed and enter into the new body with all the formations of the past birth in whatever way they are modified, after going into those planes by going through necessary modifications with enriched material derived from the experiences of those planes. As a result of that we cannot expect that the soul that is now born will manifest the same tendencies which were present in the last incarnation. Napoleon of the last birth may be in this birth an ordinary soldier, no more the captain of the commander. Or he may be a businessman in the next birth or an ordinary navigator, depending upon what experiences he had already exhausted and what new potentialities he has to manifest. So it is idle to expect in a new personality continuation in the same form or same rhythm as it was in the previous birth.The common notion that the same personality who dies now is reborn is quite unscientific. It is only true of those very rudimentary personalities which have no capacity of transmigrating to higher planes and to exhaust themselves and to renew themselves, it is true only of those personalities. But for the others it is not so for most of the human beings it is not so. Otherwise there would be no evolution. If you are simply to be born again into a new body it would be senseless. Why would you have left the earlier body at all? We leave the earlier body because the circumstances in which we are living, the capacities which are there in the body have reached their point where they cannot have further development. We have reached a critical point where continuing in the same body has no further meaning in terms of evolution. http://www.kireetjoshiarchives.com/audio-video/audio.php?id=474 I would like to introduce one more complication in this simple description that I have given and that is the concept of individuality. Earlier we had said that the purpose of this game that we call the present world is to manifest the totality in the embodied individual; this is the general formula we had given. The true individual, we had said, is the jivatman and we had defined jivatman as the centration of the universal and transcendent Divine in a manifold movement of universe. This is the definition that we had given of the jivatman. The idea is that this centration should become embodied and in that embodied condition the transcendental and universal consciousness must fully manifest with specificity which that specific individual is designed to express. Until that happens in the embodied condition we are obliged to return to this physical world. This is the law of necessity.Why is it that we are obliged to come back to this earth? Supposing after coming out of this body we go into the plane of the life, plane of the mind and plane of the psychic, why do we not remain there all the time? Why are we obliged to come back? The necessity arises out of the fact is that the purpose for which we have agreed to play this role, reach a point in this embodied condition the totality must be manifest specific individually. And since this cannot happen in one birth or many births, it is imposed upon us that we have to come back again and again. Or you might say that we have taken a decision to do so along with God Himself. We want to participate in this game and so it is with the self choice that we come back again on earth so that that particular aim is fulfilled. So the important point is in the individuality. In the individuality, Totality must become manifest.In every evolutionary process here, the constant pressure is to develop individuality capable of manifesting Totality. This is the central drive in our life whether we realise it or not. Whatever we are doing in our life sharpens our individuality to such an extent that the Totality can manifest specifically through our individuality. And all that we are doing on this earth is a kind of work of a goldsmith. Our soul is very much compared with a goldsmith’s. The jivatman when it is embodied, it is embodied by its delegate called the soul. It is the soul that is the goldsmith which goes on shaping individuality of the body, life and mind and of itself.A most important activity that is going on in our life is the formation of individuality. This formation is basically the task of Agni, Fire. All formation, even in the physical world if you want to form or weld something without fire it is not possible. You cannot make a form stable without welding and without the fire element. Same thing is also true of the subtle planes. It is the
[FairfieldLife] Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Spirit & Reincarnation
There are various possibilities.1. The physical universe is the only universe. Once the soul comes out of the body there is nowhere else it has to go, so it goes into another body immediately. So, transmigration to some other world, heaven or hell or other worlds does not arise at all. This is true if the physical world is the only reality. If the physical universal is not the only reality then other possibilities arise.We have found:“The soul would have no freedom from Matter; it would be perpetually bound to its instrument, the body, and dependent on it for the continuity of its manifested existence. But we have found that there is a life on other planes after death and before the subsequent rebirth, a life consequent on the old and preparatory of the new stage of terrestrial existence. Other planes coexist with ours, are part of one complex system and act constantly upon the physical which is their own final and lowest term, receives its reactions, admit a secret communication and commerce. Man can become conscious of these planes, can even in certain states project his conscious being into them, partly in life, presumably therefore with a full completeness after the dissolution of the body.”This is the second alternative.2. Physical universe is not the only universe. In fact in one of the important articles of Vedic knowledge there is a discovery of other worlds other than the physical universe. The Vedic seers were able to find out that there are worlds other than the physical world of which we have physical experience. And therefore he described the whole world in a very symbolic manner. He said the world is like an animal which has two heads, 4 horns and 3feet – it is like a riddle – dveshirasa, chaturshringa, tripada. Three feet consist of 3 worlds, the lower worlds, the world of matter, the world of life and the world of mind tripada. Even in the world there are 3 earths, the Veda speaks of 3 earths. Even in the earth principle there are two other earth principles of which we are not normally aware. The earth principle is called prithvi. The second is antariksha and the third is dhyao or heaven that is the mind. When the Vedic Rishis prayed they prayed that first shanti may be dhyao shanti, antariksha shanti, prithvi shanti; tripada, the three worlds. Then comes another world, which is called the world of Truth and Vast, �”� the world of Satyam, Ritam, Brihad, the Truth, the Right and the Vast. This is called the higher heaven. Dhyao is the lower heaven sometimes also referred to as Swaha.In the Gayatri mantra we speak of Bhur is prithvi, Bhuva is antariksha and dhyao together and swaha is this swaha, higher than that is the triple world which is spiritual �”� Satchitananda. So Satchitananda and Swaha, Truth and vast these are the four horns. The 3 feet are the feet of matter, life and mind. The four horns are Satchitananda and truth and vast. These are the 7 Realities, 7 worlds. 4 higher worlds and three lower. The 4 horns are the higher worlds and the tripada, 3 feet the lower worlds, �”� 4 higher and 3 lower worlds. All this is the manifestation of a reality which is dual in character, which has 2 heads, which is Ardhanareshwar; which is supreme, at once the Lord and Divine Mother; which is the ultimate justification of the sex principle in the world. Aditi is called the Divine Feminine principle, the first Divine Mother from whom all creatures are born. And the lord is often the image of Rishabha, the Supreme Bull, the image of the Veda. The knowledge of the existence of these worlds was a precious possession of the Vedic Rishis.This was not just a belief. It was as if the Rishis were able to move into these worlds at will. They could enter into any world as they willed. It was a kind of personal experience. Just as we can say that I have seen the world and have no doubt of its existence, at least so far as my senses go. Similarly, one can say I have entered into the world of the truth and vast. I have entered the world of life, or of mind. In the world of mind there will be only the world of ideas and no matter as we see it. In the world of life there will be world desires, impulses. When you enter into the higher world of the Supermind, when you go to the higher level, Truth and Right and Vast, you will see only the manifestation which is luminous, the world of light, the world of delight, world of consciousness and the world of existence. These worlds were known to the Upanishads also, before Upanishads accepted this whole theory, not a theory according to them, but knowledge.Those who believe that there is only this world and no other world at all for them there is no liberation. They remain in this world of death, madhyaloka. So the knowledge of these worlds is necessary for liberation. http://www.kireetjoshiarchives.com/audio-video/audio.php?category=rebirth-and-other-worlds=472If already you have the power of entering into
[FairfieldLife] Re: [TheBecoming] Re: Spirit & Reincarnation
First question is who is reborn?The second question is what is the necessity of rebirth?The third is what is the process of rebirth?The answer to the first question who is reborn is, there is a normal, common, popular notion that the man whom we saw dying is really reborn. This is a very common, normal idea. A man or woman who has died is reborn. And we begin to expect in the rebirth the same tendencies which that man or woman who had died possessed. If that man was heroic we expect that in next rebirth the same heroic man will continue to be heroic. If that man was greedy then in the next birth the same personality will continue to be greedy. If that personality had certain attachments with X or Y or Z then we expect that in the next birth the same will continue. Such are vague unclear, common notions. These notions are based on facts that we do not make distinctions. Between four elements which are in our personality there is the physical element, the physical body in which we are living; there is the vital element which consists of desires, impulses, attractions, repulsions, longings; there is a mental which consists of ideas, conceptions, dreams of various kinds, visions of various kinds and finally there is a soul in us. We do not even know the interconnection of all this.As a result of this, our notion of the personality that dies and the personality that is born is also a very vague and very unclear notion. Surely the same physical body is not reborn. That body which is here is burnt and is turned to ashes or is buried and there it gets disintegrated. But besides this physical body, there is the internal body that does not get immediately disintegrated. This is called the subtle physical body. The word subtle physical is a larger term which includes subtle physical, vital and mental also. But in the subtle body there is a subtle physical body also. This subtle physical body survives for quite some time and if the vital and mental are not very much developed in us, if the soul in us is not very much developed in us, then there would be an immediate physical rebirth in another body. It would be almost a continuation of the kind of personality that there was before because nothing was developed. This answers to the common idea of the same personality being reborn. But this happens only in the case of very rudimentary human beings, very, very elementary, very barbaric human beings whose life is centered only on the physical and other parts of the being are not developed. Now, for those who have got vital being quite developed, mind also to some extent developed, and the soul also slightly developed; in that case after the disintegration of the physical body, also the subtle physical, the vital continues for some time. It was developed already; it does not disappear. But on the physical earth, basically only physical beings can live that is the specialty of this physical world.If anyone wants to come on the earth and live on the earth, he has got to have a physical body. If he does not have a physical body then one cannot live long on the physical plane. So, there must be another plane where this vital being developed in this body, which has still not disintegrated, which is still continuing, passes through a certain plane and that must be a plane corresponding to its own nature. If it is a vital being it goes to the life plane, the vital plane, a vital world, a world which consists of vital beings. This is a part of the occult knowledge. That apart from the physical world there is a vital world.http://www.kireetjoshiarchives.com/audio-video/audio.php?category=rebirth-and-other-worlds=473So once you go to the life plane then you get a freer domain of expressing your vital being. This also is a very important idea.What does it mean to get a freer field to express the vital being? You notice that in this world of the physical, we are constantly hampered by physical disabilities. There are many things that we would like to do but either we are sick or we get fatigued very easily, or else there is a need for sleep. Very often when our vital being is very powerful we feel we should have 48 hours in a day to be able to do everything that we want to do. There are so many things to be done but it is the physical existence which hampers our full manifestation of all our vital activities. In the vital plane this disability would not be there, so that it may have a freer play of its energies. Very often many things that we cannot do here in the physical plane we are able to accomplish in the vital plane, this we are able to do by transmigrating into the life plane. And we reach a point where all that we wanted to do is as it were exhausted.Once that is done then we are able to pass to the other plane and if our mind was developed to some extent then we go to the mental plane. There again, what we were not able to do mentally here, we are able to
