[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: I was watching a film clip on UTube last night which featured a Physics Professor Kaku from New York City University. He stated that, at the present time, there appears to be no evidence of any civilizations in the galaxy that have achieved mastery over nature. Physicists are using a classification system with the following achievement value: Class 1- a civilization that has achieved mastery in using the available resources in its own planet. Class 2 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the Sun, after exhausting the energy resources in its own planet. Class 3 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the galaxy, after exhausting its reliance on the Sun. Using this criteria, the professor believed that the Earth is Class Zero since the civilization of Earth is still relying on fossil fuels for its enery resource. In science fiction speak, Class 2 civilizations would be equivalent to the Star Trek spacefarers. Class 3 civilizations would be equivalent to the Empire in Star Wars. What is 'civilization'? Is it better to have a billion ignorant people go into outer space, living in extra-terrestrial shopping malls, scratching around on the barren rocks they discover, and to boldly go where no ignaramous has gone before? Or is it better to have a few billion enlightened people living in tune with nature on Earth, nurturing the heart and soul of the inner spirit of life, and expanding the mind to its full self-sufficient invincible capacity? I'd be happy with either scenario, but it looks like we're gonna have to make do with a few billion bozos stuck on earth scratching around on the barren rocks we're creating here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To All: I was watching a film clip on UTube last night which featured a Physics Professor Kaku from New York City University. He stated that, at the present time, there appears to be no evidence of any civilizations in the galaxy that have achieved mastery over nature. Physicists are using a classification system with the following achievement value: Class 1- a civilization that has achieved mastery in using the available resources in its own planet. Class 2 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the Sun, after exhausting the energy resources in its own planet. Class 3 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the galaxy, after exhausting its reliance on the Sun. Using this criteria, the professor believed that the Earth is Class Zero since the civilization of Earth is still relying on fossil fuels for its enery resource. In science fiction speak, Class 2 civilizations would be equivalent to the Star Trek spacefarers. Class 3 civilizations would be equivalent to the Empire in Star Wars. Stephen Hawking has a good explanation for why there are apparently no species more technologically advanced than we are. This year scientists are switching on the largest particle accelarator yet, in an attempt to re-create the condition of the universe just after the big-bang. There is an outside possibility that causing this much energy will destroy the universe, that's right, destroy the universe, create another big-bang! As it's impossible to know beforehand that this is going to happen we are happy to give it a go in a spirit of inquiry. Now, suppose that in order to become a super advanced civilisation you have to go through the inquisitive stage of theory and experiment, you will need to build a machine like that at CERN laboratories. Maybe, every time a species got this far they would destroy everything. So, perhaps we are as advanced as anyone is likely to get. I reckon that in order to get as far as we have you need to have had a carboniferous period in your planets evolution. This is by no means predictable as we could have evolved long before we did and the several hundred million years of trees dying and being buried by changing sea levels might not have happened before we got here, which would leave us never evolving further than the bronze age, if that. It is only because the amount of energy we get from fossil fuels has made us so comfortable that we have the time, raw materials, plastics etc and excess power to look for big science concepts like the Higgs particle. We could be the only ones ever who are looking for the Higgs Goddam particle and we owe it all to dead trees. Far out.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
Richard, I'm starting to feel like Ronald Regan over here when I say to you, There you go again. The Earth is bombarded -- and bombarded is exactly the correct term -- by cosmic particles and rays. These things arrive here at speeds that are so high that the new accelerator you're afraid of is a comparatively -- no exaggeration now -- a puny little affair indeed. Trillions upon trillions of stuff-n-bits bombard our atmosphere every second, and most of these collisions are impacts of greater risk than anything that will happen in the new accelerator -- which is doing about one such bombardment event per experiment. The cosmos should have created a new big bang by now, donchatink? There isn't a physicist on the planet who will disagree with the above. As soon as they turn that thing on, I predict they'll say, Oops, we need an even more powerful machine -- anyone got a few billion dollars laying around, cuz now we know we need to try to create the higgypiggy-wiggedout-stringystrung-boffobozo particle. And Hawkings' recent statement about extraterrestrial life did NOT assert that we are the only intelligent life in our galaxy or that there was a good explanation for this unproved assertion of yours, Richard. Those concepts are merely being bandied about as mental-nastics. Hawkings knows that there's a huge number of possible explanations for Fermi's Paradox, and that today's science is merely scratching the surface of this great mystery. Also, keep in mind that Hawkings has written things that later he's come to disavow -- why? -- cuz he's a WORKING scientist who is gathering ever more data and refining or even wholly changing his views.like ALL scientists are expected to do. His theories about black holes have undergone a very significant evolution, for instance. You would benefit greatly by reading this about the Drake Equation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation While doing so, keep in mind that this equation is itself an evolving thing and has changed significantly as new data comes in. For instance, your concept about we gotta have coal before we can evolve is something that would be plugged into the Drake equation as a statistical probability. With the Drake equation, we can see the number of intelligent civilizations of our galaxy is computed to be very low: 10. Yikes, eh? But keep in mind that our galaxy is one amongst billions of other galaxies, so the number of intelligent civilizations for the whole universe rockets up to billions of such civilizations. Consider that our planet has only been around for five billion years and that our sun is a second-hand star made up of material from other stars that already lived their billions-of-year-long lives and then blew themselves up. This means that, say, about half of all the intelligent civilizations formed before our sun was even born -- how ancient would their sciences be, eh? How godlike would those minds be, eh? All the above is merely a few words about incredibly complex notions -- I study astronomy about an hour a day, and I don't know jack compared to even an astronomy majored undergrad sophomore. Conclusions are extraordinarily rare, but the science is very exacting and richly detailed. I encourage you to do more reading, so that I don't have to think of Ronny any more than I have to. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: I was watching a film clip on UTube last night which featured a Physics Professor Kaku from New York City University. He stated that, at the present time, there appears to be no evidence of any civilizations in the galaxy that have achieved mastery over nature. Physicists are using a classification system with the following achievement value: Class 1- a civilization that has achieved mastery in using the available resources in its own planet. Class 2 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the Sun, after exhausting the energy resources in its own planet. Class 3 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the galaxy, after exhausting its reliance on the Sun. Using this criteria, the professor believed that the Earth is Class Zero since the civilization of Earth is still relying on fossil fuels for its enery resource. In science fiction speak, Class 2 civilizations would be equivalent to the Star Trek spacefarers. Class 3 civilizations would be equivalent to the Empire in Star Wars. Stephen Hawking has a good explanation for why there are apparently no species more technologically advanced than we are. This year scientists are switching on the largest particle accelarator yet, in an attempt to re-create the condition of the universe just after the big-bang. There is an outside possibility that causing this much energy will destroy the universe, that's right, destroy
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard, I'm starting to feel like Ronald Regan over here when I say to you, There you go again. The Earth is bombarded -- and bombarded is exactly the correct term -- by cosmic particles and rays. These things arrive here at speeds that are so high that the new accelerator you're afraid of is a comparatively -- no exaggeration now -- a puny little affair indeed. Trillions upon trillions of stuff-n-bits bombard our atmosphere every second, and most of these collisions are impacts of greater risk than anything that will happen in the new accelerator -- which is doing about one such bombardment event per experiment. The cosmos should have created a new big bang by now, donchatink? There isn't a physicist on the planet who will disagree with the above. Sorry edg but they all would, I think it's you that needs to do a bit more reading on this subject. The stuff that hits earth wouldn't harm us in any way, usually. The odd big one gets through, talk to the dinos about that. It certainly wouldn't cause a big bang. And it wasn't what I was refering to. What I was refering to was the sort of energy created inside particle accelerators that hasn't been seen since the big bang. It really hasn't and we are switching on the biggest this year. There is a 50 billion to one chance that it will destroy the universe and create a new one at the same time. Hawking talked about this partly for amusement and as a thought experiment in a speech the other day. I don't make this stuff up. I think it's an intruiging idea, and while it isn't likely (I wouldn't cancel the pension plan) it is possible. Some people object to scientists taking chances like this who gives em the right! they say. I say do it, it isn't like it would hurt if it all goes pear-shaped. But just reading New Scientist every week is pointless, you have to get your mental hands dirty. So what did you think of my idea about life on planets without a carboniferous period never evolving beyond a primitive culture because of lack of resources, energy etc? That's my own contribution to the debate, and it's good I think. Because without fossil fuels what could we have done? You won't find it on wikipedia yet, but next time I'm hanging with my physicist and cosmologist mates I'll lay it on em. They're all Oxford educated and have kept me up to date on this stuff for twenty odd years now. I know more about evolution than all of them put together so I'm not surprised no one ever came up with it before. I don't know why you think I don't know what I'm talking about here, maybe I'm too flippant in my tossing about of ideas. But I've done a lot of reading on this and it all kind of hangs about in there, so I never bother with links and stuff, I just generalise for ease of consumption, maybe that's it. And I know how science works Edg, it's a process of refinement and experiment, no absolutes. Just the best guess we can make given the current knowledge. That's what I like about it. There is speculation, there is wild speculation and there is cosmology I can't remember who said it, but it's true.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Richard, I'm starting to feel like Ronald Regan over here when I say to you, There you go again. The Earth is bombarded -- and bombarded is exactly the correct term -- by cosmic particles and rays. These things arrive here at speeds that are so high that the new accelerator you're afraid of is a comparatively -- no exaggeration now -- a puny little affair indeed. Trillions upon trillions of stuff-n-bits bombard our atmosphere every second, and most of these collisions are impacts of greater risk than anything that will happen in the new accelerator -- which is doing about one such bombardment event per experiment. The cosmos should have created a new big bang by now, donchatink? There isn't a physicist on the planet who will disagree with the above. Sorry edg but they all would, I think it's you that needs to do a bit more reading on this subject. The stuff that hits earth wouldn't harm us in any way, usually. The odd big one gets through, talk to the dinos about that. It certainly wouldn't cause a big bang. And it wasn't what I was refering to. What I was refering to was the sort of energy created inside particle accelerators that hasn't been seen since the big bang. It really hasn't and we are switching on the biggest this year. There is a 50 billion to one chance that it will destroy the universe and create a new one at the same time. Hawking talked about this partly for amusement and as a thought experiment in a speech the other day. I don't make this stuff up. I think it's an intruiging idea, and while it isn't likely (I wouldn't cancel the pension plan) it is possible. Some people object to scientists taking chances like this who gives em the right! they say. I say do it, it isn't like it would hurt if it all goes pear-shaped. But just reading New Scientist every week is pointless, you have to get your mental hands dirty. So what did you think of my idea about life on planets without a carboniferous period never evolving beyond a primitive culture because of lack of resources, energy etc? That's my own contribution to the debate, and it's good I think. Because without fossil fuels what could we have done? You won't find it on wikipedia yet, but next time I'm hanging with my physicist and cosmologist mates I'll lay it on em. They're all Oxford educated and have kept me up to date on this stuff for twenty odd years now. I know more about evolution than all of them put together so I'm not surprised no one ever came up with it before. I don't know why you think I don't know what I'm talking about here, maybe I'm too flippant in my tossing about of ideas. But I've done a lot of reading on this and it all kind of hangs about in there, so I never bother with links and stuff, I just generalise for ease of consumption, maybe that's it. I want to edit the above coz it makes me look like I think I'm an expert in something. What I mean is I get all the practical upshots and understand the concepts because the scientists who do the work are good at explaining things, it's actually difficult not to get the hang of it if you want to spend twenty years with your head in books about space and stuff. And when I say I know more about evolution than all of them put together I'm refering to my physics pals and it's them that tell me this. I'd hate to come over as arrogant, confident I can cope with ;-) And I know how science works Edg, it's a process of refinement and experiment, no absolutes. Just the best guess we can make given the current knowledge. That's what I like about it. There is speculation, there is wild speculation and there is cosmology I can't remember who said it, but it's true.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
Richard, There you go again. This is getting us nowhere. I used to teach special education, and I'd have the same type of discussions with kids who had a 40 I.Q...they would insist that their spelling of a word was the correct one despite my greater authority telling them differently. It was very VERY endearing in them, but it sucks to see it in you. Go here: this SCIENCE site will educate you as to your errors -- if you read it that is. I'm through with being your mentor. http://tinyurl.com/2e7xrj This article handles ALL the issues that you've been wrong about in your last few threads. Good luck. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Richard, I'm starting to feel like Ronald Regan over here when I say to you, There you go again. The Earth is bombarded -- and bombarded is exactly the correct term -- by cosmic particles and rays. These things arrive here at speeds that are so high that the new accelerator you're afraid of is a comparatively -- no exaggeration now -- a puny little affair indeed. Trillions upon trillions of stuff-n-bits bombard our atmosphere every second, and most of these collisions are impacts of greater risk than anything that will happen in the new accelerator -- which is doing about one such bombardment event per experiment. The cosmos should have created a new big bang by now, donchatink? There isn't a physicist on the planet who will disagree with the above. Sorry edg but they all would, I think it's you that needs to do a bit more reading on this subject. The stuff that hits earth wouldn't harm us in any way, usually. The odd big one gets through, talk to the dinos about that. It certainly wouldn't cause a big bang. And it wasn't what I was refering to. What I was refering to was the sort of energy created inside particle accelerators that hasn't been seen since the big bang. It really hasn't and we are switching on the biggest this year. There is a 50 billion to one chance that it will destroy the universe and create a new one at the same time. Hawking talked about this partly for amusement and as a thought experiment in a speech the other day. I don't make this stuff up. I think it's an intruiging idea, and while it isn't likely (I wouldn't cancel the pension plan) it is possible. Some people object to scientists taking chances like this who gives em the right! they say. I say do it, it isn't like it would hurt if it all goes pear-shaped. But just reading New Scientist every week is pointless, you have to get your mental hands dirty. So what did you think of my idea about life on planets without a carboniferous period never evolving beyond a primitive culture because of lack of resources, energy etc? That's my own contribution to the debate, and it's good I think. Because without fossil fuels what could we have done? You won't find it on wikipedia yet, but next time I'm hanging with my physicist and cosmologist mates I'll lay it on em. They're all Oxford educated and have kept me up to date on this stuff for twenty odd years now. I know more about evolution than all of them put together so I'm not surprised no one ever came up with it before. I don't know why you think I don't know what I'm talking about here, maybe I'm too flippant in my tossing about of ideas. But I've done a lot of reading on this and it all kind of hangs about in there, so I never bother with links and stuff, I just generalise for ease of consumption, maybe that's it. I want to edit the above coz it makes me look like I think I'm an expert in something. What I mean is I get all the practical upshots and understand the concepts because the scientists who do the work are good at explaining things, it's actually difficult not to get the hang of it if you want to spend twenty years with your head in books about space and stuff. And when I say I know more about evolution than all of them put together I'm refering to my physics pals and it's them that tell me this. I'd hate to come over as arrogant, confident I can cope with ;-) And I know how science works Edg, it's a process of refinement and experiment, no absolutes. Just the best guess we can make given the current knowledge. That's what I like about it. There is speculation, there is wild speculation and there is cosmology I can't remember who said it, but it's true.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I believe said, Hawking discussed it in connection with the fermi paradox mainly as entertainment, so don't cancel the pension plan. Nobody ever said it was likely but it is possible, as the first paragraph of your article states; But the chance of planetary annihilation by this means is totally miniscule, experimental physicist Greg Landsberg 50,000,000,000 to 1 against was never worth losing sleep over. It's just a bit of fun. Still no opinion on my Only carboniferous period gave humans enough free energy and materials to develop serious technology, and is a possible solution to the Fermi paradox theory? I've been googling for a bit and no one else seems to link the lack of one with Fermi, I'm on to something I reckon. Will keep you posted, maybe I can increase my projected IQ to more than 40 points.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
Okay, we're done. You're not reading, you're not learning, and you're wasting both our times. Have fun believing you stuff. Given your recent threads, I'll take a wild guess and say that you don't have any friends who know any better than you, or if they do, they've gotten to know how you think and have given up, as I do, now, officially, trying to correct your views. Geeze at this rate, I'm saving myself a lot of angst by letting you, Shemp, the War Monger, Off etc. just spew and spew the goofiest stuff. Richard, you could have at least read the whole articles at wiki that I referred you to instead of just the first sentence. You're hooking onto a fact here, a fact there, but ignoring most of the subtleties and then concluding about reality based on only a couple facts. And you have totally not countered many of my explanations. Hmmm, what other researchers do that sort of science? Sigh. If I could get about ten of the folks here to start posting at another Yahoo group that bans trolls and dunderheads, I'd never read another post here. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: As I believe said, Hawking discussed it in connection with the fermi paradox mainly as entertainment, so don't cancel the pension plan. Nobody ever said it was likely but it is possible, as the first paragraph of your article states; But the chance of planetary annihilation by this means is totally miniscule, experimental physicist Greg Landsberg 50,000,000,000 to 1 against was never worth losing sleep over. It's just a bit of fun. Still no opinion on my Only carboniferous period gave humans enough free energy and materials to develop serious technology, and is a possible solution to the Fermi paradox theory? I've been googling for a bit and no one else seems to link the lack of one with Fermi, I'm on to something I reckon. Will keep you posted, maybe I can increase my projected IQ to more than 40 points.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, we're done. Yes, I think we're done too. You didn't really get what I was talking about, or even begin to accept that I might actually know about this stuff and was simply relaying a thought experiment by one of the worlds foremost physicists. It could have been interesting, but never mind. Have fun on the new forum, if you can persuade anyone to leave with you. You're not reading, you're not learning, and you're wasting both our times. Have fun believing you stuff. Given your recent threads, I'll take a wild guess and say that you don't have any friends who know any better than you, or if they do, they've gotten to know how you think and have given up, as I do, now, officially, trying to correct your views. Geeze at this rate, I'm saving myself a lot of angst by letting you, Shemp, the War Monger, Off etc. just spew and spew the goofiest stuff. Richard, you could have at least read the whole articles at wiki that I referred you to instead of just the first sentence. You're hooking onto a fact here, a fact there, but ignoring most of the subtleties and then concluding about reality based on only a couple facts. And you have totally not countered many of my explanations. Hmmm, what other researchers do that sort of science? Sigh. If I could get about ten of the folks here to start posting at another Yahoo group that bans trolls and dunderheads, I'd never read another post here. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo richardhughes103@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: As I believe said, Hawking discussed it in connection with the fermi paradox mainly as entertainment, so don't cancel the pension plan. Nobody ever said it was likely but it is possible, as the first paragraph of your article states; But the chance of planetary annihilation by this means is totally miniscule, experimental physicist Greg Landsberg 50,000,000,000 to 1 against was never worth losing sleep over. It's just a bit of fun. Still no opinion on my Only carboniferous period gave humans enough free energy and materials to develop serious technology, and is a possible solution to the Fermi paradox theory? I've been googling for a bit and no one else seems to link the lack of one with Fermi, I'm on to something I reckon. Will keep you posted, maybe I can increase my projected IQ to more than 40 points.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, hugheshugo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John jr_esq@ wrote: To All: I was watching a film clip on UTube last night which featured a Physics Professor Kaku from New York City University. He stated that, at the present time, there appears to be no evidence of any civilizations in the galaxy that have achieved mastery over nature. Physicists are using a classification system with the following achievement value: Class 1- a civilization that has achieved mastery in using the available resources in its own planet. Class 2 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the Sun, after exhausting the energy resources in its own planet. Class 3 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the galaxy, after exhausting its reliance on the Sun. Using this criteria, the professor believed that the Earth is Class Zero since the civilization of Earth is still relying on fossil fuels for its enery resource. In science fiction speak, Class 2 civilizations would be equivalent to the Star Trek spacefarers. Class 3 civilizations would be equivalent to the Empire in Star Wars. What is 'civilization'? Is it better to have a billion ignorant people go into outer space, living in extra-terrestrial shopping malls, scratching around on the barren rocks they discover, and to boldly go where no ignaramous has gone before? Or is it better to have a few billion enlightened people living in tune with nature on Earth, nurturing the heart and soul of the inner spirit of life, and expanding the mind to its full self- sufficient invincible capacity? I'd be happy with either scenario, but it looks like we're gonna have to make do with a few billion bozos stuck on earth scratching around on the barren rocks we're creating here. I have an escape pod. OffWorld
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To All: I was watching a film clip on UTube last night which featured a Physics Professor Kaku from New York City University. He stated that, at the present time, there appears to be no evidence of any civilizations in the galaxy that have achieved mastery over nature. Physicists are using a classification system with the following achievement value: Class 1- a civilization that has achieved mastery in using the available resources in its own planet. Class 2 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the Sun, after exhausting the energy resources in its own planet. Class 3 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the galaxy, after exhausting its reliance on the Sun. Using this criteria, the professor believed that the Earth is Class Zero since the civilization of Earth is still relying on fossil fuels for its enery resource. In science fiction speak, Class 2 civilizations would be equivalent to the Star Trek spacefarers. Class 3 civilizations would be equivalent to the Empire in Star Wars. Yes, it would. Look at the words you're using. Mastery over the galaxy. Harnessing it. That's so Darth Vader, dude. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To All: I was watching a film clip on UTube last night which featured a Physics Professor Kaku from New York City University. He stated that, at the present time, there appears to be no evidence of any civilizations in the galaxy that have achieved mastery over nature. Physicists are using a classification system with the following achievement value: Class 1- a civilization that has achieved mastery in using the available resources in its own planet. Class 2 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the Sun, after exhausting the energy resources in its own planet. Class 3 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the galaxy, after exhausting its reliance on the Sun. Using this criteria, the professor believed that the Earth is Class Zero since the civilization of Earth is still relying on fossil fuels for its enery resource. In science fiction speak, Class 2 civilizations would be equivalent to the Star Trek spacefarers. Class 3 civilizations would be equivalent to the Empire in Star Wars. What is 'civilization'? Is it better to have a billion ignorant people go into outer space, living in extra-terrestrial shopping malls, scratching around on the barren rocks they discover, and to boldly go where no ignaramous has gone before? Or is it better to have a few billion enlightened people living in tune with nature on Earth, nurturing the heart and soul of the inner spirit of life, and expanding the mind to its full self-sufficient invincible capacity? OffWorld
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To All: I was watching a film clip on UTube last night which featured a Physics Professor Kaku from New York City University. He stated that, at the present time, there appears to be no evidence of any civilizations in the galaxy that have achieved mastery over nature. Physicists are using a classification system with the following achievement value: Class 1- a civilization that has achieved mastery in using the available resources in its own planet. Class 2 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the Sun, after exhausting the energy resources in its own planet. Class 3 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the galaxy, after exhausting its reliance on the Sun. Using this criteria, the professor believed that the Earth is Class Zero since the civilization of Earth is still relying on fossil fuels for its enery resource. In science fiction speak, Class 2 civilizations would be equivalent to the Star Trek spacefarers. Class 3 civilizations would be equivalent to the Empire in Star Wars. Yes, it would. Look at the words you're using. Mastery over the galaxy. Harnessing it. That's so Darth Vader, dude. :-) He's quoting Michio Kaku who has taken up the mantle from Carl Sagan though Kaku is much less a butthead astronomer than Sagan: http://www.mkaku.org/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Among Galactic Civilizations, Earth Is Class Zero
The below three levels of energy usage have kicked around since 1964 in astronomy, and the discussions are very complex. This Professor Kaku knows that with our present technology, it would be sheer luck for us to pick up on other intelligent life in our galaxy, since there's so many ways to imagine communication that, given our development, and given the much more advanced development that virtually any extra-terrestial intelligences would be using, technologies beyond our ken, it is impossible to say whether or not our galaxy is teeming with communications or if we're the first to achieve even our low abilities. We could be like ants with modern scientific life on earth completely being unknown despite all the radio and tv signals pulsing through their tiny brains. ET could be right here, right now, in a variety of ways that we simply cannot know of at this stage of our development.er, except for maybe enlightened dudes who can pick up on them as devas, gods, etc. John, you should read up on this concept more: you below conclusions and your wordings indicate that you have barely scratched the surface...even to the point of misrepresenting the concept with incorrect subtletiessuch as your use of the word exhaust below when there's no such consideration in the general concept that a civilization must exhaust any of its resources before it gets the technological ability to harness the energy of a star or a galaxy. Here's the wiki page for the concept: http://tinyurl.com/l3ql5 And I don't believe that the Star Wars scenario had any technology beyond Type II civilization. Type III technology is such a vaster abillity as to make harnessing a single star as insignificant as our ant like ability to harness coal and make steam. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To All: I was watching a film clip on UTube last night which featured a Physics Professor Kaku from New York City University. He stated that, at the present time, there appears to be no evidence of any civilizations in the galaxy that have achieved mastery over nature. Physicists are using a classification system with the following achievement value: Class 1- a civilization that has achieved mastery in using the available resources in its own planet. Class 2 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the Sun, after exhausting the energy resources in its own planet. Class 3 - a civilization that has harnessed the power of the galaxy, after exhausting its reliance on the Sun. Using this criteria, the professor believed that the Earth is Class Zero since the civilization of Earth is still relying on fossil fuels for its enery resource. In science fiction speak, Class 2 civilizations would be equivalent to the Star Trek spacefarers. Class 3 civilizations would be equivalent to the Empire in Star Wars.
