[FairfieldLife] Re: Cult Mania
The guy is criminally insane. End of story. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote: Check out this guy! Siberian cult leader who claimed he was alien god from the star Sirius jailed for ritual rape of dozens of disciples * Russian Konstantin Rudnev's cult Ashram Shambala had 30,000 followers * Leader forced disciples to take part in orgies, occultism and drugs trafficking * The 45-year-old said he was 'sent to Earth to enlighten mankind' * By WILL STEWART A Russian cult leader has been jailed for 11 years for raping and sexually assaulting his followers. Konstantin Rudnev, 45, forced his disciples to take part in orgies, occultism, and drug-trafficking, a court in Novosibirsk, Siberia heard. Former Red Army conscript Rudnev, a self-proclaimed alien god from the star Sirius, demanded blind submission from his followers mainly aged between 14 and 30. [Cult leader: Konstantin Rudnev has been jailed for 11 years after Russian authorities spend over a decade trying to bring him to justice] Cult leader: Konstantin Rudnev has been jailed for 11 years after Russian authorities spent over a decade trying to bring him to justice `Rudnev's cult members often lost their money and property and abandoned their relatives and friends, and many of them were reported missing,' reported the Siberian Times ars-in-siberia-for-raping-and-sexually-assaulting-his-followers/ . `After joining up, females were forced to take part in `ritual rapes' and orgies with Rudnov and other cult leaders, the court was told.' One mother told how her son took up yoga classes with the sect - called Ashram Shambala - when he was 15, and three years later vanished after joining his 30,000 followers. More than a dozen followers gave evidence against Rudnev and shocking videos were also found showing how some Ashram Shambala followers were subjected to violence and sexual abuse. [Predator: Rudnev's cult Ashram Shambala had over 30,000 followers devoted to his teachings which saw them cut all ties with their families and take part in drugs trafficking and sex orgies] Predator: Rudnev's cult Ashram Shambala had over 30,000 followers devoted to his teachings which saw them cut all ties with their families and take part in drugs trafficking and sex orgies Media reports suggest some victims were under age. His sect was set up before the collapse of the USSR but earlier attempts to convict him over a 12 year period had failed because his `victims' refused to testify against him in court, said prosecutors who had sought a 15 year sentence. Rudnev claims to his followers that he was sent to Earth to enlighten mankind, drawing up his own bizarre teachings called `The Way of a Fool' which mocked traditional views of family life, study and work. He was also convicted of creating a religious organisation infringing on people's personalities and rights. The sect was lucrative and he became a multi-millionaire, preying on the vulnerable in a country undergoing massive transformations after the collapse of Soviet rule. [Guilty: Female members of Rudnev's cult were forced to take part in 'ritual rapes' some of which were reported to have been underage at the time] Guilty: Female members of Rudnev's cult were forced to take part in 'ritual rapes' some of which were reported to have been underage at the time He ran yoga seminars to lure young people who then disowned their families and gave their life savings and property to his Ashram Shambala sect. According to him, his eccentric 'teachings' took elements from the Bible, the Koran, Karmasutra, shamanism, paganism and tantric sex. Prosecutors alleged his methods were sinister and involved the brainwashing of vulnerable people. When he was arrested some 15 people - including a 14 year girl from Belarus - were on police search lists after being reported missing by relatives. Rudnev's lawyer Alexander Nizhinsky said: `We think the verdict announced today was not very objective.' In 2004, a psychological commission found him criminally insane and he was placed in a mental hospital, but later escaped. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2274974/Siberian-cult-leader-cla\ imed-alien-god-star-Sirius-jailed-ritual-rape-dozens-disciples.html#ixzz\ 2KET3e95b aimed-alien-god-star-Sirius-jailed-ritual-rape-dozens-disciples.html#ixz\ z2KET3e95b Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
[FairfieldLife] Re: Cult Mania
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, John wrote: The guy is criminally insane. End of story. Not a very convincing story either, Sirius is way too hot to sustain any sort of life that we might understand - so he wouldn't have duped me. Just one of the advantages of a good science education!
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: You did that once in the past when you came under harsh critisism from Vaj. Now that'd be something. Like being savaged by a dead sheep? (Credit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denis_Healey)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT Totalism to TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: I must admit that although I've never read the book in question and never will (I'm *really* not interested enough in Robin to want to know more about him), I too am thankful to who posted it. The controversy it has generated has drawn the compulsives out of the woodwork and made them go bat shit crazy, so much so that with any luck most of them will be gone -- posted out -- by Tuesday or Wednesday and the rest of us can enjoy a peaceful rest of the week. :-) Totalism: A Studyof `Brainwashing' in China.Turqb, I appreciated the Author's Preface in 'Cults' including the summary of Robert Lifton's work on totalism. Kind of goes along with your other post on 11 ways to tell your boss is a psychopath. TM a cult and necessarily a snare that way to everyone (?); as we used to say about it in the day, No, TM can't be a cult it is too dis-organized. Seeing as you have not joined with the group here and read 'Cults', I thought to share this bit about Lifton's totalism here for you to look through at a distance. As a study it's a good framework for thought around the whole subject of cults and cult-leaders.-Buck paste: Robert Jay Lifton, MD, in his book, Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism: A Study of `Brainwashing' in China, points out the eight commonalities of all systems espousing `totalism.' His book is not about cults, per se; and yet the thousands of known cults in North America all profess totalism (meaning they claim to be `all you'll ever need') and operate by pressing the following eight levers: 1) Loading the language: Cults use specialized words, whose lofty or esoteric connotations expand all meanings into absolutes, thereby taking events out of the ken of normal feeling and discrimination. 2) Milieu control: Cults put newcomers in close contact with long-timers who often claim to be novices, quickly sensitiziing neophytes into the internally consistent world of the cult, both mentally and environmentally. Expressions of love and community, even sexual lures, establish an emotional involvement powerful enough to override rational inconsistencies. Isolated living can seal the community from a society which most cults term `sinful' or even `evil.' 3) `The sacred science': Cults employ a closed system of thinking, which, to their members, seems all-inclusive, ultimate, open and makes perfect sense. 4) Mystical manipulation: `Planned spontaneity' is a common tool that elicits seemingly spontaneous responses from the group; yet such responses belie a pressurized system of well-governed behavior. 5) Dispensing of existence: Enforcing cult dynamics largely by insider-versus-outsider thinking means that members feel specially chosen to fulfill the cult's mission. The spiritual health of any member is determined by the cult leader or authorized organization. 6) Doctrine over person: Employing an absolutist dogma which is always more important than any member, cults thrive and members become expendable once they doubt the dogma. 7) Cult of confession: Having some sort of personal confessions of sins, often public, whether or not a member has actually committed such offenses, keeps members vulnerable and subservienteasily achieved with anyone whose self-worth is not totally intact. Control is accomplished by dangling the highest rewards while simultaneously chaining members to unworthiness. 8) Demand for purity: Demanding various degrees of purityoften in the form of abstinence and austerityfrom members, the cult leader can determine who becomes worthy of promised spiritual graces. FFL 11-10-2012 'Cults', a pdf book. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325195 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325195 'Cults' thread http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325672 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325672
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWlJndr3BKEfeature=fvwp --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. It is a testament to her ego fixation and her need to prove her domination. And look at who she needs to pretend to be defending to do that. Birds of an ego-feather flock together. :-) What I find fascinating is that the more insane Robin and Ravi demonstrate themselves to be, the more she doubles down on defending them. It's like watching a reality TV show called Cults Gone Wild. I think that the aspects of cult behavior that most concerns me -- having by now gotten used to the sheer vindictiveness of TM practitioners who claim to have been practicing the highest path for decades now -- are their inability to be able to discern when they're dealing with real mental illness, and their willingness to use these mentally ill people to further their own vindictive cult goals. I attribute the first failing to having been around the TMO for so long, and thus having gotten used to the borderline insanity present in many of its adherents (excused as mere quirkiness or eccentricity or just unstressing), that they feel a need to portray much more serious mental illness in the same way. My suspicion is that they do this because they feel that if they can convince others that people like Robin and Ravi as sane, those others will believe that they are, too. The second failing is more disturbing. I will go on record as saying that I don't believe I've ever seen Judy exhibit any more true empathy or loyalty for one of the people she defends than either Ravi or Robin have. The people she defends are mere props for her, potential weapons that she can use to justify her vindictiveness and compulsive need to get her enemies. And they last only as long as they toe the line and do her bidding. Should any of them cross her, she'll throw them under the bus as quickly as she did John from Brazil or anyone else who once thought her impressive and then later came to their senses and began to see her as more what she is. If I were to rank the different degrees of insanity present in this equation, I have to admit that I'd be willing to cut both Ravi and Robin a break compared to Judy, Raunchydog, and Ann. The former two are IMO legitimately mentally ill, and really have no choice in what they do. The latter do what they do to play oneupsmanship games and win arguments on a tiny, unregarded Internet forum that no one cares about. It's the very pettiness of their motivation that makes them most pathetic.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- turquoiseb no_reply@ What I find fascinating is that the more insane Robin and Ravi demonstrate themselves to be, the more she doubles down on defending them. It's like watching a reality TV show called Cults Gone Wild. --- turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: I attribute the first failing to having been around the TMO for so long, and thus having gotten used to the borderline insanity present in many of its adherents (excused as mere quirkiness or eccentricity or just unstressing), that they feel a need to portray much more serious mental illness in the same way. My suspicion is that they do this because they feel that if they can convince others that people like Robin and Ravi as sane, those others will believe that they are, too. If I were to rank the different degrees of insanity present in this equation, I have to admit that I'd be willing to cut both Ravi and Robin a break compared to Judy, Raunchydog, and Ann. The former two are IMO legitimately mentally ill, and really have no choice in what they do. The latter do what they do to play oneupsmanship games and win arguments on a tiny, unregarded Internet forum that no one cares about. It's the very pettiness of their motivation that makes them most pathetic. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: Dude, your relationships with some folks here has been discussed and commented upon endlessly and by lots of people. The whole drama, with your participation, seems to be a significant engine of this forum. For some unknown and ungodly reason, it is. I don't get it. I don't enjoy it, but it continues unabated, irregardless. I just let it lie, for the most part. Robbie Robbie, This is the second post, you are talking like a normal human being. You did that once in the past when you came under harsh critisism from Vaj. It's now obvious that you are capable of talking like a normal human. Why then this huge convulted, contrived dump truck dialogue? What's the point of all this charade?
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Not a tactic, Share, an observation. And I'll stand by it: there are people here who are out for Robin's blood-- http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/out+for+blood --Lord Knows, Howell and his disgusting wife, --- laughinggull108 no_reply@... wrote: A little harsh there, don't ya think Judy? You got all that from the one comment she's made here in support of her husband's book? How can everyone involved in Robin's cult 25+ years ago (LK, Howell and his wife, to name a few) have it all *wrong* and you've got it all *right*. Evidently, there is much *more* that these abused people need from their abuser than an admission on a public forum that he was wrong (notwithstanding flaws in his character) and is *now* a different person. If we go strictly by what these people are still feeling and seeing in what they call his *manipulative* current writings, it appears that he's offered nothing to them in that regard. What's really disgusting is that this is being hashed in public rather than making amends privately between the parties involved. You don't get it LG, not do others in the forum. The Stein of Judea is on a supreme mission to prove that Maharishi and TM's UC is real and she has to use Robin's experience as UC to validiate it. If Robin's UC was really a delusion, that's bad news for her. See how bankrupt the TM true-blue believers are that they have no other poster boy to parade other than a delusionary nutball who was presumed to be in UC, 25 years ago and eventualy ended up in Maharishi's doghouse, then became a Catholic and still reeks of Catholicism while still apeing Maharishi's schema. If Judy was called an 'incarnation of devil' by Robin 25 years ago in front of her child (if she has one) like the way Howard was treated, I doubt Judy would be as charitable towards him as she is now. - Barry, and, of course, yourself. (Don't bother protesting your innocence; what on earth would make you think I'd take you seriously? Especially when you write vicious posts like this one.) snip Robin can do just fine on his own dealing with the vampire crew. But I like to get my own licks in. Call it a personal crusade against dishonesty. Your personal crusade against dishonesty is admirable, Judy, but there is so much dishonesty in the world that I'm sure you see and read about, how can you get any peace or sleep knowing that you can't respond to it all? And why not pursue it where it really counts instead of on an insignificant public forum such as this one? Is it the big-fish-in-a-small-pond syndrome? I think you and many others attribute more power to this forum than it deserves. No one's life is going to be ruined by anything that's written here, and your insults to others take much away from any credibility to be found in what you write. It's like when the writer starts making insults, then s/he has reached the end of the line and we know we've got 'em. snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Not a tactic, Share, an observation. And I'll stand by it: there are people here who are out for Robin's blood-- http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/out+for+blood --Lord Knows, Howell and his disgusting wife, --- laughinggull108 no_reply@... wrote: A little harsh there, don't ya think Judy? You got all that from the one comment she's made here in support of her husband's book? How can everyone involved in Robin's cult 25+ years ago (LK, Howell and his wife, to name a few) have it all *wrong* and you've got it all *right*. Evidently, there is much *more* that these abused people need from their abuser than an admission on a public forum that he was wrong (notwithstanding flaws in his character) and is *now* a different person. If we go strictly by what these people are still feeling and seeing in what they call his *manipulative* current writings, it appears that he's offered nothing to them in that regard. What's really disgusting is that this is being hashed in public rather than making amends privately between the parties involved. You don't get it LG, not do others in the forum. The Stein of Judea is on a supreme mission to prove that Maharishi and TM's UC is real and she has to use Robin's experience as UC to validiate it. If Robin's UC was really a delusion, that's bad news for her. See how bankrupt the TM true-blue believers are that they have no other poster boy to parade other than a delusionary nutball who was presumed to be in UC, 25 years ago and eventualy ended up in Maharishi's doghouse, then became a Catholic and still reeks of Catholicism while still apeing Maharishi's schema. If Judy was called an 'incarnation of devil' by Robin 25 years ago in front of her child (if she has one) like the way Howell was treated, I doubt Judy would be as charitable towards him as she is now. - Barry, and, of course, yourself. (Don't bother protesting your innocence; what on earth would make you think I'd take you seriously? Especially when you write vicious posts like this one.) snip Robin can do just fine on his own dealing with the vampire crew. But I like to get my own licks in. Call it a personal crusade against dishonesty. Your personal crusade against dishonesty is admirable, Judy, but there is so much dishonesty in the world that I'm sure you see and read about, how can you get any peace or sleep knowing that you can't respond to it all? And why not pursue it where it really counts instead of on an insignificant public forum such as this one? Is it the big-fish-in-a-small-pond syndrome? I think you and many others attribute more power to this forum than it deserves. No one's life is going to be ruined by anything that's written here, and your insults to others take much away from any credibility to be found in what you write. It's like when the writer starts making insults, then s/he has reached the end of the line and we know we've got 'em. snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
That's funny Jedi. Too bad you got your attributions wrong, unless you knew that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: Dude, your relationships with some folks here has been discussed and commented upon endlessly and by lots of people. The whole drama, with your participation, seems to be a significant engine of this forum. For some unknown and ungodly reason, it is. I don't get it. I don't enjoy it, but it continues unabated, irregardless. I just let it lie, for the most part. Robbie Robbie, This is the second post, you are talking like a normal human being. You did that once in the past when you came under harsh critisism from Vaj. It's now obvious that you are capable of talking like a normal human. Why then this huge convulted, contrived dump truck dialogue? What's the point of all this charade?
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
Robin Carlsen: I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin authfriend: Asshole. So, it's all about Robin and Barry. Why don't you write like a normal person? Then maybe ordinary folks could understand you, and I wouldn't have to spend my Sunday running around explaining what you said. Sometimes even *I* can't figure out what the freak you're talking about (for that matter, I'm not entirely sure you can either--one of the old cult-leader tactics: rattle off a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and your followers will assume your mind functions on such an exalted level that they can't grasp the elevated ideas you're expounding). If what I've been reading on FFL lately is supposed to be spiritual teaching, then it's diabolical, fer sure, if not demonic. Go figure. Next thing we know emptybill will be telling us that 'vijnana' doesn't mean consciousness, Robin will be telling us that he's not a 'Sufi', and mkjackson will say that 'Tai Chi' doesn't have anything to do with placement or positioning, and Turq will be making the claim that he no longer believes in reincarnation and the 'soul-monad'. LoL!!! BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. That's it? You're becoming weak-minded. You refused to address the rest of the post. Afraid ... again? However, I'm grateful to you. Once again displaying the attributes you're so well know to exhibit. Such an excellent reminder to folks here of your delusional, self-rewarding shallowness. Please show us your real hate-filled face. No need to pretend to hold back when we all know you as you really are. So many of us here are loving it. Thank you again. Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. Translation: I made two stupid errors in a post yesterday and she called me on them, made me feel all inferior. (BTW, I've just repeated one of them. That'll show her!)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
I beg your pardon. Isn't it Robin's post? 325836 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325836 --- seventhray1 lurkernomore20002000@... wrote: That's funny Jedi. Too bad you got your attributions wrong, unless you knew that. --- Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: Dude, your relationships with some folks here has been discussed and commented upon endlessly and by lots of people. The whole drama, with your participation, seems to be a significant engine of this forum. For some unknown and ungodly reason, it is. I don't get it. I don't enjoy it, but it continues unabated, irregardless. I just let it lie, for the most part. --- Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: Robbie Robbie, This is the second post, you are talking like a normal human being. You did that once in the past when you came under harsh critisism from Vaj. It's now obvious that you are capable of talking like a normal human. Why then this huge convulted, contrived dump truck dialogue? What's the point of all this charade?
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
This post should be nominated for Ironic 'Inadvertent Ironic Projectionist Post of the Week': emptybill: You have already offered more positive considerations than Judas has in the five years I've been a denizen of FFL. 325781 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325781 Share turns on Robin, Judy turns on Share, Robin turns on Judy, Barry turns on Robin, and Bill turns on Robin, Judy, Share and Barry. A classic. It just doesn't get any better than this. LoL!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
I believe this quote is attributable to Marek, IIRC. Dude, your relationships with some folks here has been discussed and commented upon endlessly and by lots of people. The whole drama, with your participation, seems to be a significant engine of this forum. For some unknown and ungodly reason, it is. I don't get it. I don't enjoy it, but it continues unabated, irregardless. I just let it lie, for the most part.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: snip The Stein of Judea is on a supreme mission to prove that Maharishi and TM's UC is real and she has to use Robin's experience as UC to validiate it. That's probably the wrongest you've ever been on FFL, Jason.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@... wrote: --- Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Not a tactic, Share, an observation. And I'll stand by it: there are people here who are out for Robin's blood-- http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/out+for+blood --Lord Knows, Howell and his disgusting wife, --- laughinggull108 no_reply@ wrote: A little harsh there, don't ya think Judy? You got all that from the one comment she's made here in support of her husband's book? How can everyone involved in Robin's cult 25+ years ago (LK, Howell and his wife, to name a few) have it all *wrong* and you've got it all *right*. Evidently, there is much *more* that these abused people need from their abuser than an admission on a public forum that he was wrong (notwithstanding flaws in his character) and is *now* a different person. If we go strictly by what these people are still feeling and seeing in what they call his *manipulative* current writings, it appears that he's offered nothing to them in that regard. What's really disgusting is that this is being hashed in public rather than making amends privately between the parties involved. You don't get it LG, not do others in the forum. The Stein of Judea is on a supreme mission to prove that Maharishi and TM's UC is real and she has to use Robin's experience as UC to validiate it. If Robin's UC was really a delusion, that's bad news for her. See how bankrupt the TM true-blue believers are that they have no other poster boy to parade other than a delusionary nutball who was presumed to be in UC, 25 years ago and eventualy ended up in Maharishi's doghouse, then became a Catholic and still reeks of Catholicism while still apeing Maharishi's schema. If Judy was called an 'incarnation of devil' by Robin 25 years ago in front of her child (if she has one) like the way Howell was treated, I doubt Judy would be as charitable towards him as she is now. You don't know that for sure. I experienced virtually the same thing as my dear friend Brahmi. Virtually all of us did by the end. I don't know if I would describe myself as charitable, more like 'over it', 'moved on', 'let it go', 'taken the knowledge and the experience and transformed myself into a better person than I used to be', 'let 25 long intervening years heal me'. And the list could go on. All any of you can do is conjecture here. - Barry, and, of course, yourself. (Don't bother protesting your innocence; what on earth would make you think I'd take you seriously? Especially when you write vicious posts like this one.) snip Robin can do just fine on his own dealing with the vampire crew. But I like to get my own licks in. Call it a personal crusade against dishonesty. Your personal crusade against dishonesty is admirable, Judy, but there is so much dishonesty in the world that I'm sure you see and read about, how can you get any peace or sleep knowing that you can't respond to it all? And why not pursue it where it really counts instead of on an insignificant public forum such as this one? Is it the big-fish-in-a-small-pond syndrome? I think you and many others attribute more power to this forum than it deserves. No one's life is going to be ruined by anything that's written here, and your insults to others take much away from any credibility to be found in what you write. It's like when the writer starts making insults, then s/he has reached the end of the line and we know we've got 'em. snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason jedi_spock@ wrote: snip The Stein of Judea is on a supreme mission to prove that Maharishi and TM's UC is real and she has to use Robin's experience as UC to validiate it. That's probably the wrongest you've ever been on FFL, Jason. But give him time Judy, there is the whole future for him to best even this incomprehensible jumble of english letters.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- Susan wayback71@ wrote: snip Judy, how in the world has all this gotten you so worked up about someone you have never met (Robin)? --- authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Oh, shut up, Susan. You have nothing useful to contribute here. Wow! See what I mean? --- authfriend authfriend@... wrote: To be clear, I didn't mean here as in FFL but here as in this discussion. I've never known Susan to have anything important or even interesting to say about personal interactions; she seems to have zero insight into human relations or individual behavior. She's fine when she's into other topics. It's kinda rare that you act like a thug and a pug. She was basicaly asking you a question. No need to be so abrupt about it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: I think that the aspects of cult behavior that most concerns me -- having by now gotten used to the sheer vindictiveness of TM practitioners who claim to have been practicing the highest path for decades now -- are their inability to be able to discern when they're dealing with real mental illness, Oh, I think most of us are well aware of your mental illness, Barry. and their willingness to use these mentally ill people to further their own vindictive cult goals. I'm not sure how we might use you, however. I attribute the first failing to having been around the TMO for so long, and thus having gotten used to the borderline insanity present in many of its adherents (excused as mere quirkiness or eccentricity or just unstressing), that they feel a need to portray much more serious mental illness in the same way. My suspicion is that they do this because they feel that if they can convince others that people like Robin and Ravi as sane, those others will believe that they are, too. The second failing is more disturbing. I will go on record as saying that I don't believe I've ever seen Judy exhibit any more true empathy or loyalty for one of the people she defends than either Ravi or Robin have. The people she defends are mere props for her, potential weapons that she can use to justify her vindictiveness and compulsive need to get her enemies. And they last only as long as they toe the line and do her bidding. Should any of them cross her, she'll throw them under the bus as quickly as she did John from Brazil or anyone else who once thought her impressive and then later came to their senses and began to see her as more what she is. We're all aware of the insanity of Barry's notions, but let's just get the facts right here. In the first place, I wasn't a defender of John Manning (do.rflex); he was one of *my* defenders for years (and one of Barry's harshest critics), all the way back to alt.m.t. In the second place, I didn't throw John under the bus, he threw *me* under the bus. Why? Because I wasn't an enthusiastic supporter of Obama in the 2008 presidential election. Go figure...
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: snip Judy, how in the world has all this gotten you so worked up about someone you have never met (Robin)? Oh, shut up, Susan. You have nothing useful to contribute here. Wow! See what I mean? To be clear, I didn't mean here as in FFL but here as in this discussion. I've never known Susan to have anything important or even interesting to say about personal interactions; she seems to have zero insight into human relations or individual behavior. She's fine when she's into other topics. I thought you were reacting to Susan raising the same point I made that your dogged pursuit of truth may stem from some sort of unconscious drive you don't understand. There aint nothing wrong with it obviously, except that you seem to pursue it with a ferocious black and white gusto that raises more than a few eyebrows. It seems like it's your whole life, online anyway. I am obviously speculating and playing up to Robin's modus operandi in breaking down things that hold people back. But obsessive behaviour, no matter how well intentioned, is a problem that stops you developing. Or isn't it well intentioned? Maybe it's a way to create stability in your ego by having everyone in this chaotic, mixed up world appear to agree with you or be part of some other that don't deserve your respect(do I make a good therapist or what!) Search your heart Judy, how do you feel ;-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB to Richard
Richard, please try to keep up with who it's all about, LOL. Which is actually Ann. Who wasn't even here! Before going away, Ann wrote some nasty stuff about me and some FF spiritual groups like the Quakers, Liberal Catholics, Sufis, devotional singers and practitioners of yoga and qigong. I replied to her and she replied that it reminded her of when I accused Robin of psychological rape. Then YOU, yes you Richard, made a comment about that which I answered. Then Robin wrote a reply to me. Then I told him I was at peace about it all and hoped he was too and wishing him all best always. Then the poop really hit the scoop. And here we are! From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB This post should be nominated for Ironic 'Inadvertent Ironic Projectionist Post of the Week': emptybill: You have already offered more positive considerations than Judas has in the five years I've been a denizen of FFL. 325781 Share turns on Robin, Judy turns on Share, Robin turns on Judy, Barry turns on Robin, and Bill turns on Robin, Judy, Share and Barry. A classic. It just doesn't get any better than this. LoL!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB to Richard
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Richard, please try to keep up with who it's all about, LOL. Which is actually Ann. Who wasn't even here! Before going away, Ann wrote some nasty stuff about me and some FF spiritual groups like the Quakers, Liberal Catholics, Sufis, devotional singers and practitioners of yoga and qigong. I replied to her and she replied that it reminded her of when I accused Robin of psychological rape. Then YOU, yes you Richard, made a comment about that which I answered. Then Robin wrote a reply to me. Then I told him I was at peace about it all and hoped he was too and wishing him all best always. Then the poop really hit the scoop. And here we are! From: Richard J. Williams richard@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB  This post should be nominated for Ironic 'Inadvertent Ironic Projectionist Post of the Week': emptybill: You have already offered more positive considerations than Judas has in the five years I've been a denizen of FFL. 325781 Share turns on Robin, Judy turns on Share, Robin turns on Judy, Barry turns on Robin, and Bill turns on Robin, Judy, Share and Barry. A classic. It just doesn't get any better than this. LoL!!! And Buck, he just wants people to come to meditation.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: snip I am obviously speculating and playing up to Robin's modus operandi in breaking down things that hold people back. But obsessive behaviour, no matter how well intentioned, is a problem that stops you developing. Or isn't it well intentioned? Maybe it's a way to create stability in your ego by having everyone in this chaotic, mixed up world appear to agree with you or be part of some other that don't deserve your respect(do I make a good therapist or what!) Er, what. Search your heart Judy, how do you feel ;-) No, no. It's How are you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: snip I am obviously speculating and playing up to Robin's modus operandi in breaking down things that hold people back. But obsessive behaviour, no matter how well intentioned, is a problem that stops you developing. Or isn't it well intentioned? Maybe it's a way to create stability in your ego by having everyone in this chaotic, mixed up world appear to agree with you or be part of some other that don't deserve your respect(do I make a good therapist or what!) Er, what. Search your heart Judy, how do you feel ;-) No, no. It's How are you? Doh!
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
Folks, we have to expect the anti-Robinites to be in a state of upset and confusion for awhile. They fully expected it would be a breeze to turn FFL members against Robin by making the Cult book available. It doesn't seem to have worked out that way. FFLers aren't about to be bulldozed and propagandized to suit the agenda of some newbie peddling a book. Most here either like Robin or have no problem with him. Nor was Robin willing to meekly acquiesce to the absurd accusation that he had not changed from his cult-leader days, or the even more ludicrous notion that he had created a new cult on FFL. He responded with courage and dignity, taking full responsibility, as he always has, for his past behavior but firmly rejecting the current charges being leveled against him. The anti-Robinites were so clumsy and stupid about their campaign (especially in appointing the hapless Share their spokesperson and in threatening to make an example of Ann by punishing her for declining to condemn Robin) that instead of humiliating Robin and triumphantly expelling him from FFL, they have become figures of ridicule. Like the Republicans in the election just past, it will take them some time to recover from the embarrassment. We'll almost certainly continue to see see bursts of shaky bravado from those who cannot bring themselves to face reality, but they won't last long. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. It is a testament to her ego fixation and her need to prove her domination. And look at who she needs to pretend to be defending to do that. Birds of an ego-feather flock together. :-) What I find fascinating is that the more insane Robin and Ravi demonstrate themselves to be, the more she doubles down on defending them. It's like watching a reality TV show called Cults Gone Wild.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB to Richard
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Richard, please try to keep up with who it's all about, LOL. Which is actually Ann. Who wasn't even here! Before going away, Ann wrote some nasty stuff about me and some FF spiritual groups like the Quakers, Liberal Catholics, Sufis, devotional singers and practitioners of yoga and qigong. I replied to her and she replied that it reminded her of when I accused Robin of psychological rape. That Reader's Digest Version of our conversations is so far from the truth I am quite astounded. At this point I am not sure whether to chalk this up to too much sugar, lack of sugar or just plain old integrity on your part. I'll assume it's the sugar until I can't anymore. Then YOU, yes you Richard, made a comment about that which I answered. Then Robin wrote a reply to me. Then I told him I was at peace about it all and hoped he was too and wishing him all best always. Then the poop really hit the scoop. And here we are! Yes, here we all are, as if by magic! Isn't life magical Share? I can see the pink unicorns and rainbows from here, you too? Why don't we just hug and make up? From: Richard J. Williams richard@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB  This post should be nominated for Ironic 'Inadvertent Ironic Projectionist Post of the Week': emptybill: You have already offered more positive considerations than Judas has in the five years I've been a denizen of FFL. 325781 Share turns on Robin, Judy turns on Share, Robin turns on Judy, Barry turns on Robin, and Bill turns on Robin, Judy, Share and Barry. A classic. It just doesn't get any better than this. LoL!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Folks, we have to expect the anti-Robinites to be in a state of upset and confusion for awhile. Yeah, right. :-) Just have to comment on this flight of fancy and the suggestion that Share is in a state of panic, coming from the person who is only 10 posts away from posting out for the week *at noon on a Monday*. Methinks the lady doth project too much. :-) :-) :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Folks, we have to expect the anti-Robinites to be in a state of upset and confusion for awhile. Yeah, right. :-) Just have to comment on this flight of fancy and the suggestion that Share is in a state of panic, It would appear that Barry is on the verge of panic as well. He's so freaked out he's actually been driven to read my posts. ;-) coming from the person who is only 10 posts away from posting out for the week And to count them! *at noon on a Monday*. Yeah, and not the least bit panicked about it. I did what I needed to do over the weekend. Barry will continue to froth at the mouth for a while, but he hasn't been a real player here for some time, so nobody's going to pay him much attention.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: snip Nor was Robin willing to meekly acquiesce to the absurd accusation that he had not changed from his cult-leader days, or the even more ludicrous notion that he had created a new cult on FFL. He responded with courage and dignity, taking full responsibility, as he always has, for his past behavior but firmly rejecting the current charges being leveled against him.snip For me the funny thing is, that Robin can say how much he's changed. He can invite his friends from his WTS days to Starbucks for a chat. I am sure he would react just as he says he would. But when you look at his interactions here on FFL, I, and I think many others, see the same pattern of confrontation, and in your face demands that were said to be a part of the WTS experience. Now you can claim, as Raunchy seems to do, that this is just someone who processes unflinching honesty in himself, and demands the same in others. If that's her opinion, so be it. But I don''t think that would be the consensus of people who took at look at these interactions. And why such a difference of opinion would elicit such strong incrimination, I don't know. And rather than Brahmi's assessment being described as despicable, (hope I recall the correct term used) I think her point of being a recovering cult teacher to be quite valid. If you are indeed in recovery, why would you even go near the same behaviors that got you into trouble in the first place. But who knows, maybe others see no resemblance to his M-O during those days and how he interacts here on FFL.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: Folks, we have to expect the anti-Robinites to be in a state of upset and confusion for awhile. They fully expected it would be a breeze to turn FFL members against Robin by making the Cult book available. It doesn't seem to have worked out that way. FFLers aren't about to be bulldozed and propagandized to suit the agenda of some newbie peddling a book. Most here either like Robin or have no problem with him. Nor was Robin willing to meekly acquiesce to the absurd accusation that he had not changed from his cult-leader days, or the even more ludicrous notion that he had created a new cult on FFL. He responded with courage and dignity, taking full responsibility, as he always has, for his past behavior but firmly rejecting the current charges being leveled against him. The anti-Robinites were so clumsy and stupid about their campaign (especially in appointing the hapless Share their spokesperson and in threatening to make an example of Ann by punishing her for declining to condemn Robin) that instead of humiliating Robin and triumphantly expelling him from FFL, they have become figures of ridicule. Like the Republicans in the election just past, it will take them some time to recover from the embarrassment. We'll almost certainly continue to see see bursts of shaky bravado from those who cannot bring themselves to face reality, but they won't last long. I guess we're not in Kansas anymore. The way different people can filter reality to suit their own ends is amazing. I'm sure glad the CULT book got peddled here as it's really opened the faultlines even further and poor Judy appears to have disappeared into some weird alternative reality where she is as victorious as she obviously *needs* to be. Have a nice time there and don't forget to write --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. It is a testament to her ego fixation and her need to prove her domination. And look at who she needs to pretend to be defending to do that. Birds of an ego-feather flock together. :-) What I find fascinating is that the more insane Robin and Ravi demonstrate themselves to be, the more she doubles down on defending them. It's like watching a reality TV show called Cults Gone Wild.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: Folks, we have to expect the anti-Robinites to be in a state of upset and confusion for awhile. Yeah, right. :-) Just have to comment on this flight of fancy and the suggestion that Share is in a state of panic, It would appear that Barry is on the verge of panic as well. He's so freaked out he's actually been driven to read my posts. ;-) coming from the person who is only 10 posts away from posting out for the week And to count them! *at noon on a Monday*. Yeah, and not the least bit panicked about it. I did what I needed to do over the weekend. Barry will continue to froth at the mouth for a while, but he hasn't been a real player here for some time, so nobody's going to pay him much attention. I've got this special place in my heart for the humiliated, the neglected, the last pick on the playground kinda guy. http://youtu.be/pDoXWDLwTO8
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 lurkernomore20002000@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: snip Nor was Robin willing to meekly acquiesce to the absurd accusation that he had not changed from his cult-leader days, or the even more ludicrous notion that he had created a new cult on FFL. He responded with courage and dignity, taking full responsibility, as he always has, for his past behavior but firmly rejecting the current charges being leveled against him.snip Steve: For me the funny thing is, that Robin can say how much he's changed. He can invite his friends from his WTS days to Starbucks for a chat. I am sure he would react just as he says he would. Robin: It is not a question of reaction, Steve; it is a question of being able to communicate to that person the sense of someone loving and respectful to that person such that that person believes in their experience that Robin is allowing them to have: an experience of freedom and positivity. Steve: But when you look at his interactions here on FFL, I, and I think many others, see the same pattern of confrontation, and in your face demands that were said to be a part of the WTS experience. Robin: It is question of whether I have, here on FFL, Steve, compromised my integrity and violated the integrity of another person, something that I did in those Ten Years--since I was ultimately a far more problematic character than any of the persons that I 'confronted'. I have made a claim to Bill Howell: it is a question of seeing whether that claim is empirically true in the subjective experience of any person from my past who sat at that Starbucks table with me. You have a feeling for the person I am: Do you doubt you would experience someone who was loving and appropriate? What is your intuition about this? Now imagine the person of those Ten Years: If I met that person now, I would find myself forced to defend myself and to, in effect, stop him from his crusade of divine and demoni dramatic truth. Steve: Now you can claim, as Raunchy seems to do, that this is just someone who processes unflinching honesty in himself, and demands the same in others. Robin: Where have I been dishonest, grandiose, mystically arrogant, violent, presumptuous on FFL, Steve? Can you furnish a single instance of someone who is exhibiting behaviour which would represent what a former cult leader would do--something abnormal and unnatural on its own terms, without reference to any antecedent circumstances. If I had not been a former cult leader and was posting as I post. Would you have come to the same conclusion as you have here, Steve? Steve: If that's her opinion, so be it. But I don''t think that would be the consensus of people who took at look at these interactions. Robin: What would be the consensus of persons who are examining my posts on their own terms, without linking them to what now has become public knowledge as to the person I was more then twenty-five years ago? You are an infuriatingly naive person, Steve--Your most frustrating trait (for me at least) is *You won't process all of the data*. This I can't comprehend. I don't see how a point of view can be valid unless it seeks to process ALL of the data. Your judgment of Share today is a classic example of this: You don't base your judgment on any kind of reading of reality. You based your judgment purely within the sentimentality--unconscious--which drives so many of your perceptions. I don't understand it; it is shockingly irresponsible--even in a moral sense. IMHO. Steven: And why such a difference of opinion would elicit such strong incrimination, I don't know. Robin: You don't know what you are talking about, Steve--This Share Long business. Are you just proffering an opinion *here*? If you think what you are saying here only amounts to an opinion, then, according to the literal and meaningful definition of that term, you lack the knowledge which would make your opinion something more than an opinion. Are your reflections here in the same category as what Share as said? They most certainly are, only compared to her you are the soul of rationality. Steve: And rather than Brahmi's assessment being described as despicable, (hope I recall the correct term used) I think her point of being a recovering cult teacher to be quite valid. Robin: And that is the point, Steve: In order to convey the context of this judgment, you must ignore my letter to Brahmi and my letter to Bill--and then you must simply attach yourself to the characters and issues according to how your prejudices and biases play upon you. Why not look for the complexity of this whole issue, Steve? What is it about your own consciousness which makes you, implicitly, believe that raunchy and the rest are not facing up to reality as you and Share are--and Barry? Barry this morning said I was insane. Have I ever
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: snip reply to obvious insanity I guess we're not in Kansas anymore. The way different people can filter reality to suit their own ends is amazing. I'm sure glad the CULT book got peddled here as it's really opened the faultlines even further and poor Judy appears to have disappeared into some weird alternative reality where she is as victorious as she obviously *needs* to be. Have a nice time there and don't forget to write I must admit that although I've never read the book in question and never will (I'm *really* not interested enough in Robin to want to know more about him), I too am thankful to who posted it. The controversy it has generated has drawn the compulsives out of the woodwork and made them go bat shit crazy, so much so that with any luck most of them will be gone -- posted out -- by Tuesday or Wednesday and the rest of us can enjoy a peaceful rest of the week. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 lurkernomore20002000@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: snip Nor was Robin willing to meekly acquiesce to the absurd accusation that he had not changed from his cult-leader days, or the even more ludicrous notion that he had created a new cult on FFL. He responded with courage and dignity, taking full responsibility, as he always has, for his past behavior but firmly rejecting the current charges being leveled against him.snip For me the funny thing is, that Robin can say how much he's changed. He can invite his friends from his WTS days to Starbucks for a chat. I am sure he would react just as he says he would. But when you look at his interactions here on FFL, I, and I think many others, see the same pattern of confrontation, and in your face demands that were said to be a part of the WTS experience. Wrong, Steve. No one on FFLife except Ann can honestly claim to see Robin's pattern of confrontation during WTS as the *same* for FFLife. Ann was there and she doesn't see it. You weren't there. So, whose experience of Robin's behavior on FFLife compared to WTS am I to believe, you or Ann? If you can't get your facts straight, please don't add to the confusion. Now you can claim, as Raunchy seems to do, that this is just someone who processes unflinching honesty in himself, and demands the same in others. If that's her opinion, so be it. But I don''t think that would be the consensus of people who took at look at these interactions. And why such a difference of opinion would elicit such strong incrimination, I don't know. And rather than Brahmi's assessment being described as despicable, (hope I recall the correct term used) I think her point of being a recovering cult teacher to be quite valid. If you are indeed in recovery, why would you even go near the same behaviors that got you into trouble in the first place. But who knows, maybe others see no resemblance to his M-O during those days and how he interacts here on FFL.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
Wiki Willy Now that you bring it up ... In Buddhist Sanskrit, the term vijñana means discernment - to perceive apart. As a term for one the five skandha-s, it signifies the capacity of functioning awareness to apprehend the its own separateness from form (rupa), sensation (vedana) , consciousness (sanjña) and volition (samskara). Here's an explanatory blurb about discernment ... The prefix vi- is seen in some commonly used Pali Sanskrit Buddhist terms; such as vimala, vinaya, vinnana/vijnana, visuddha/vishuddha, vihara,and vipassana/vipashyana. It is a cognate of the common English prefix dis- [or de-]. Note that most English speakers consider dis-/de- to be a negation. Actually, it simply means `apart.' In many cases, this implies a kind of negation. However, there are three or four main functions; and many times there is no negation. I go with three: A Reversal or Removal. This is similar to a negation. An example in English is disappear; to cease to appear. Another is disconnect; to end a connection. Disengage, disservice, and defuse are other examples in which dis- serves to reverse the meaning of the base word. An example of this function is seen in the Buddhist terms viraga and vimala. To sunder, sever, divide, separate, or take `apart:' Sometimes this is sort of like a negations, as in the word dismember to cut or tear off or part. At other times, it simply kind of sorts things out, as in delineate. Disseminate is another example in which dis- means to divide up, as is discourse. This kind of function for vi- is seen in the Buddhist terms vinaya, vihara, and vinnana / vijnana. An Intensifier: This use of dis- in English, or vi- in Pali or Sanskrit, does not change the meaning of the root word; it sets the use of the word `apart' from its common usage. The best example in English ins disgruntled. What were we before we became disgruntled? Were we gruntled? The answer is yes. Gruntle is an old verb that meant to groan, grunt, or grumble. So, gruntled meant that one was malcontented. Disgruntled means to be utterly discontented, an intensive of gruntled. There is also the verb debar; which means virtually the same thing as the verb bar; but might imply a more official or permanent prohibition. Also, disannul intensifies annul. The vi- in the Buddhist terms vipassana / vipashyana, and visuddha / vishuddha is an intensifier. By the way, em-, en-, ex-, il-, in-, and ir- are other examples are prefixes than can act like negations; but are also used as intensifiers. Finally, looking at etymologies has not only helped me understand Buddhist terms, it has also helped me better appreciate the nuances of my own English language. Sometimes, the prefix dis- can mean different things in the same word, depending on context. An example is discern. The `cern; part is from a root that means `to sift.' Discern can mean to see , detect, or recognize intently or clearly; in that case dis- is an intensive. However, discern can also mean to identify differences or discriminate, in that cases dis- serves to indicate division or separation --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams richard@... wrote: Robin Carlsen: I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin authfriend: Asshole. So, it's all about Robin and Barry. Why don't you write like a normal person? Then maybe ordinary folks could understand you, and I wouldn't have to spend my Sunday running around explaining what you said. Sometimes even *I* can't figure out what the freak you're talking about (for that matter, I'm not entirely sure you can either--one of the old cult-leader tactics: rattle off a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and your followers will assume your mind functions on such an exalted level that they can't grasp the elevated ideas you're expounding). If what I've been reading on FFL lately is supposed to be spiritual teaching, then it's diabolical, fer sure, if not demonic. Go figure. Next thing we know emptybill will be telling us that 'vijnana' doesn't mean consciousness, Robin will be telling us that he's not a 'Sufi', and mkjackson will say that 'Tai Chi' doesn't have anything to do with placement or positioning, and Turq will be making the claim that he no longer believes in reincarnation and the 'soul-monad'. LoL!!! BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. That's it? You're becoming weak-minded. You
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 lurkernomore20002000@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: snip Nor was Robin willing to meekly acquiesce to the absurd accusation that he had not changed from his cult-leader days, or the even more ludicrous notion that he had created a new cult on FFL. He responded with courage and dignity, taking full responsibility, as he always has, for his past behavior but firmly rejecting the current charges being leveled against him.snip Steve: For me the funny thing is, that Robin can say how much he's changed. He can invite his friends from his WTS days to Starbucks for a chat. I am sure he would react just as he says he would. Robin: It is not a question of reaction, Steve; it is a question of being able to communicate to that person the sense of someone loving and respectful to that person such that that person believes in their experience that Robin is allowing them to have: an experience of freedom and positivity. Is this same as saying, Hey, look at me. What an ass I was. I've worked hard to try to work out some of the kinks. I hope you'll forgive me, and if you can't then I can accept that too You mean something along these lines? Isn't this how most humans communicate? Simply.But if instead, someone started in with a challenge, prompting me to see things in a certain way, then I say, no thanks. And from what you've said, that is the tack it looks like you may be taking. Steve: But when you look at his interactions here on FFL, I, and I think many others, see the same pattern of confrontation, and in your face demands that were said to be a part of the WTS experience. Robin: It is question of whether I have, here on FFL, Steve, compromised my integrity and violated the integrity of another person, something that I did in those Ten Years--since I was ultimately a far more problematic character than any of the persons that I 'confronted'. I have made a claim to Bill Howell: it is a question of seeing whether that claim is empirically true in the subjective experience of any person from my past who sat at that Starbucks table with me. You have a feeling for the person I am: Do you doubt you would experience someone who was loving and appropriate? What is your intuition about this? Now imagine the person of those Ten Years: If I met that person now, I would find myself forced to defend myself and to, in effect, stop him from his crusade of divine and demoni dramatic truth. Steve: Now you can claim, as Raunchy seems to do, that this is just someone who processes unflinching honesty in himself, and demands the same in others. Robin: Where have I been dishonest, grandiose, mystically arrogant, violent, presumptuous on FFL, Steve? Can you furnish a single instance of someone who is exhibiting behaviour which would represent what a former cult leader would do--something abnormal and unnatural on its own terms, without reference to any antecedent circumstances. If I had not been a former cult leader and was posting as I post. Would you have come to the same conclusion as you have here, Steve? Probably not. But maybe that was the best career path for you. But it didn't fully work out. On the other hand, I wonder what direction you might have gone in. Steve: If that's her opinion, so be it. But I don''t think that would be the consensus of people who took at look at these interactions. Robin: What would be the consensus of persons who are examining my posts on their own terms, without linking them to what now has become public knowledge as to the person I was more then twenty-five years ago? You are an infuriatingly naive person, Steve--Your most frustrating trait (for me at least) is *You won't process all of the data*. This I can't comprehend. I don't see how a point of view can be valid unless it seeks to process ALL of the data. Wow, how much time does it take to process all the data.? All the data sounds pretty daunting, and then there is the interpretation of the data, right?Your judgment of Share today is a classic example of this: You don't base your judgment on any kind of reading of reality. You based your judgment purely within the sentimentality--unconscious--which drives so many of your perceptions. I don't understand it; it is shockingly irresponsible--even in a moral sense. IMHO. You may be right about this, but the funny thing is that in real life it seems to be working. I think that counts for something. In fact my best experiences have been along these lines. And when I say experiences, I mean real life events that have practical outcomes. Not just seeing the universe explode in light or something like that. Steven: And why such a difference of opinion would elicit such strong incrimination, I don't know. Robin: You don't know what you are talking about, Steve--This
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 lurkernomore20002000@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 lurkernomore20002000@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: snip Nor was Robin willing to meekly acquiesce to the absurd accusation that he had not changed from his cult-leader days, or the even more ludicrous notion that he had created a new cult on FFL. He responded with courage and dignity, taking full responsibility, as he always has, for his past behavior but firmly rejecting the current charges being leveled against him.snip Steve: For me the funny thing is, that Robin can say how much he's changed. He can invite his friends from his WTS days to Starbucks for a chat. I am sure he would react just as he says he would. Robin: It is not a question of reaction, Steve; it is a question of being able to communicate to that person the sense of someone loving and respectful to that person such that that person believes in their experience that Robin is allowing them to have: an experience of freedom and positivity. Steve2: Is this same as saying, Hey, look at me. What an ass I was. I've worked hard to try to work out some of the kinks. I hope you'll forgive me, and if you can't then I can accept that too You mean something along these lines? Isn't this how most humans communicate? Simply. But if instead, someone started in with a challenge, prompting me to see things in a certain way, then I say, no thanks. And from what you've said, that is the tack it looks like you may be taking. Robin2: A profound misreading of what I said, Steve. What I am saying is that the entire context of experience--for the person, for me--would be such that there would be substratum of good will, sincerity, lovingness--*the absence of whatever was there in the Ten Years*. This does not mean I turn into some robot of passivity or meekness such that I refuse to explain myself, or defend myself. If the person's agenda is to see me in order to test the extent to which they can deliver some form of personal retribution, well, that will be handled on the basis of the validity of the charges, the accusations--something that would be worked out at the level of intelligence and feeling and respect. Not determined then by the cosmic authority of my own consciousness, which was, in the final analysis, the determining authority for The Context. I had no context before I was enlightened; I currently am not in possession of any context (which could, just on the merit of what it is, override and supersede the personal context of self-justification of the other person). You have presumably had some differences with members of your family. How do these things get worked out? If someone came to Starbucks to light into me, I would not necessarily simply lie down and decide: This person needs to lash out and scourge me-becuase of what I have done to him or her. I would assess the appropriateness--we would assess the appropriateness--of what was being said on the basis of what seemed true to both of us within our experience of each other. Get it, Steve? There is more to life than what we have acquired by way of opinions about our life and ourselves. You would make lide formulaic. I have the bias towards trying to get at the truth. And what I have passed through in these twenty five and a half years, you know nothing about whatsoever. I am miraculously changed. This would be obvious to anyone from those Ten Years who met with me at Starbucks. Steve: But when you look at his interactions here on FFL, I, and I think many others, see the same pattern of confrontation, and in your face demands that were said to be a part of the WTS experience. Robin: It is question of whether I have, here on FFL, Steve, compromised my integrity and violated the integrity of another person, something that I did in those Ten Years--since I was ultimately a far more problematic character than any of the persons that I 'confronted'. I have made a claim to Bill Howell: it is a question of seeing whether that claim is empirically true in the subjective experience of any person from my past who sat at that Starbucks table with me. You have a feeling for the person I am: Do you doubt you would experience someone who was loving and appropriate? What is your intuition about this? Now imagine the person of those Ten Years: If I met that person now, I would find myself forced to defend myself and to, in effect, stop him from his crusade of divine and demoni dramatic truth. Steve: Now you can claim, as Raunchy seems to do, that this is just someone who processes unflinching honesty in himself, and demands the same in others. Robin: Where have I been dishonest, grandiose, mystically arrogant, violent, presumptuous on
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
Thanks for your lengthy reply. I read all of it, and enjoyed it. I don't know that I will be able to respond to it, but I appreciate the time you put into it. Oh, the comment deflector shields up Captain, was something Sulu always said to Captain Kirk. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 lurkernomore20002000@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray1 lurkernomore20002000@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: snip Nor was Robin willing to meekly acquiesce to the absurd accusation that he had not changed from his cult-leader days, or the even more ludicrous notion that he had created a new cult on FFL. He responded with courage and dignity, taking full responsibility, as he always has, for his past behavior but firmly rejecting the current charges being leveled against him.snip Steve: For me the funny thing is, that Robin can say how much he's changed. He can invite his friends from his WTS days to Starbucks for a chat. I am sure he would react just as he says he would. Robin: It is not a question of reaction, Steve; it is a question of being able to communicate to that person the sense of someone loving and respectful to that person such that that person believes in their experience that Robin is allowing them to have: an experience of freedom and positivity. Steve2: Is this same as saying, Hey, look at me. What an ass I was. I've worked hard to try to work out some of the kinks. I hope you'll forgive me, and if you can't then I can accept that too You mean something along these lines? Isn't this how most humans communicate? Simply. But if instead, someone started in with a challenge, prompting me to see things in a certain way, then I say, no thanks. And from what you've said, that is the tack it looks like you may be taking. Robin2: A profound misreading of what I said, Steve. What I am saying is that the entire context of experience--for the person, for me--would be such that there would be substratum of good will, sincerity, lovingness--*the absence of whatever was there in the Ten Years*. This does not mean I turn into some robot of passivity or meekness such that I refuse to explain myself, or defend myself. If the person's agenda is to see me in order to test the extent to which they can deliver some form of personal retribution, well, that will be handled on the basis of the validity of the charges, the accusations--something that would be worked out at the level of intelligence and feeling and respect. Not determined then by the cosmic authority of my own consciousness, which was, in the final analysis, the determining authority for The Context. I had no context before I was enlightened; I currently am not in possession of any context (which could, just on the merit of what it is, override and supersede the personal context of self-justification of the other person). You have presumably had some differences with members of your family. How do these things get worked out? If someone came to Starbucks to light into me, I would not necessarily simply lie down and decide: This person needs to lash out and scourge me-becuase of what I have done to him or her. I would assess the appropriateness--we would assess the appropriateness--of what was being said on the basis of what seemed true to both of us within our experience of each other. Get it, Steve? There is more to life than what we have acquired by way of opinions about our life and ourselves. You would make lide formulaic. I have the bias towards trying to get at the truth. And what I have passed through in these twenty five and a half years, you know nothing about whatsoever. I am miraculously changed. This would be obvious to anyone from those Ten Years who met with me at Starbucks. Steve: But when you look at his interactions here on FFL, I, and I think many others, see the same pattern of confrontation, and in your face demands that were said to be a part of the WTS experience. Robin: It is question of whether I have, here on FFL, Steve, compromised my integrity and violated the integrity of another person, something that I did in those Ten Years--since I was ultimately a far more problematic character than any of the persons that I 'confronted'. I have made a claim to Bill Howell: it is a question of seeing whether that claim is empirically true in the subjective experience of any person from my past who sat at that Starbucks table with me. You have a feeling for the person I am: Do you doubt you would experience someone who was loving and appropriate? What is your intuition about this? Now imagine the person of those Ten Years: If I met that person now, I would find myself forced to defend myself and to, in effect, stop
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB to Richard
Hmmm - I missed any remarks about qigong - I better pay mo better attention From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB to Richard Richard, please try to keep up with who it's all about, LOL. Which is actually Ann. Who wasn't even here! Before going away, Ann wrote some nasty stuff about me and some FF spiritual groups like the Quakers, Liberal Catholics, Sufis, devotional singers and practitioners of yoga and qigong. I replied to her and she replied that it reminded her of when I accused Robin of psychological rape. Then YOU, yes you Richard, made a comment about that which I answered. Then Robin wrote a reply to me. Then I told him I was at peace about it all and hoped he was too and wishing him all best always. Then the poop really hit the scoop. And here we are! From: Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB This post should be nominated for Ironic 'Inadvertent Ironic Projectionist Post of the Week': emptybill: You have already offered more positive considerations than Judas has in the five years I've been a denizen of FFL. 325781 Share turns on Robin, Judy turns on Share, Robin turns on Judy, Barry turns on Robin, and Bill turns on Robin, Judy, Share and Barry. A classic. It just doesn't get any better than this. LoL!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Hi Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. It is one of the things I particularly like about FairfieldLife ever since Rick Archer started this forum is that people show up here who were actually there. Like this post. Thanks for coming out. It gives perspective to those of us who may not have been exactly there and may only have some opinion about what we've heard. Thanks, I at least welcome you here to FFL for at least this reason. -Buck of the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@... wrote: I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me. I don't deal in guilt, but I do call a spade a spade. CULT deals with suffering, a universal theme, and the cruelty and betrayal that characterize all cults. The book is mainly meant to educate about what cults are through the details of The Context. What kind of intelligent criticism suggests let alone asserts that what is written about past events is useless? Such an argument infers that history and biography are ridiculous acts of literature. Indeed, such an argument threatens the entire field of literature. It feels obvious that someone who admittedly has committed such acts of terror, treachery and betrayal as Robin Carlsen would at all costs avoid the public forum, and be especially wary of trying to say he knows more about others than they know about themselves. Wouldn't a reformed criminal realize the temptation to again commit crimes, just as sobered alcoholics know hat their disease is a lifelong issue? And yet here on FFL we see many examples of Robin confronting this person and that, of pontificating. It seems that he is addicted to an ongoing sense of power and knowingness. Which makes Mr. Carlsen's recent diatribe all the more questionable and even pathetic in its attempt to convince people about any sincerity or true change, which he achieves in part by putting other persons, however sincere, down, trying to thoroughly negate them in his all-over-the-map rhetoric. If in fact he has not been on his belly, in the mud, he has not achieved the so-called change that he profusely propounds. Nor has he gained the compassion that such suffering necessarily brings to those who are on the path of healing. While he has `confessed' to doing terrible things, I cannot find one real line of humility that he has written on this site. I carefully read and slowly reread every word that Robin recently posted. Having been a close witness to his style, his every word leaves no doubt in my mind that he is still deluded. This will be my one and only post about this matter.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB to Richard
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson mjackson74@... wrote: Hmmm - I missed any remarks about qigong - I better pay mo better attention Here's the post in question: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/324958 When you read the post, you may find Share's characterization below a little, um, surprising. Among other--well, let's call them discrepancies, Ann never mentioned qigong, nor did she ever say Share's reply reminded her of when Share accused Robin of psychological rape. You gotta wonder... From: Share Long sharelong60@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB to Richard  Richard, please try to keep up with who it's all about, LOL. Which is actually Ann. Who wasn't even here! Before going away, Ann wrote some nasty stuff about me and some FF spiritual groups like the Quakers, Liberal Catholics, Sufis, devotional singers and practitioners of yoga and qigong. I replied to her and she replied that it reminded her of when I accused Robin of psychological rape. Then YOU, yes you Richard, made a comment about that which I answered. Then Robin wrote a reply to me. Then I told him I was at peace about it all and hoped he was too and wishing him all best always. Then the poop really hit the scoop. And here we are! From: Richard J. Williams richard@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB  This post should be nominated for Ironic 'Inadvertent Ironic Projectionist Post of the Week': emptybill: You have already offered more positive considerations than Judas has in the five years I've been a denizen of FFL. 325781 Share turns on Robin, Judy turns on Share, Robin turns on Judy, Barry turns on Robin, and Bill turns on Robin, Judy, Share and Barry. A classic. It just doesn't get any better than this. LoL!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Hi Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. It is one of the things I particularly like about FairfieldLife ever since Rick Archer started this forum is that people show up here who were actually there. Like this post. Thanks for coming out. It gives perspective to those of us who may not have been exactly there and may only have some opinion about what we've heard. Well, it gives *one* perspective on it. It's not as though there aren't plenty of others, some of them quite different, at least two of which are available here on FFL for the asking. Thanks, I at least welcome you here to FFL for at least this reason. You might at least want to actually read her post at least all the way to the end, Buck, where she made it clear this was to be her one and only post to FFL (IOW, a hit-and-run). -Buck of the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@ wrote: I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me. I don't deal in guilt, but I do call a spade a spade. CULT deals with suffering, a universal theme, and the cruelty and betrayal that characterize all cults. The book is mainly meant to educate about what cults are through the details of The Context. What kind of intelligent criticism suggests let alone asserts that what is written about past events is useless? Such an argument infers that history and biography are ridiculous acts of literature. Indeed, such an argument threatens the entire field of literature. It feels obvious that someone who admittedly has committed such acts of terror, treachery and betrayal as Robin Carlsen would at all costs avoid the public forum, and be especially wary of trying to say he knows more about others than they know about themselves. Wouldn't a reformed criminal realize the temptation to again commit crimes, just as sobered alcoholics know hat their disease is a lifelong issue? And yet here on FFL we see many examples of Robin confronting this person and that, of pontificating. It seems that he is addicted to an ongoing sense of power and knowingness. Which makes Mr. Carlsen's recent diatribe all the more questionable and even pathetic in its attempt to convince people about any sincerity or true change, which he achieves in part by putting other persons, however sincere, down, trying to thoroughly negate them in his all-over-the-map rhetoric. If in fact he has not been on his belly, in the mud, he has not achieved the so-called change that he profusely propounds. Nor has he gained the compassion that such suffering necessarily brings to those who are on the path of healing. While he has `confessed' to doing terrible things, I cannot find one real line of humility that he has written on this site. I carefully read and slowly reread every word that Robin recently posted. Having been a close witness to his style, his every word leaves no doubt in my mind that he is still deluded. This will be my one and only post about this matter.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
And now..stay tuned for some analysis from the resident retards, dumb motherfuckers of this list - the paranoid, delusional, narcissist Barry and the chinless, drooling, salivating puppy salyavin808. On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 11:50 PM, turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: Ha ha, you just can't help yourself can you! You have to niggle at every little thing thinking you're making some sort of smart point about it. What do you think all this enlightenment stuff is about if not for self improvement, can't you read what he was trying to do? It's therapy and none of it was a million miles from what every other shrink is trying to do, they just don't do it publicly or abusively is all. I stand on my earlier description of what not only Robin's primary act -- both then and now -- is, but what the act of most of those who support and enable him is: 1. Here are some things I think are WRONG with you. 2. insert diatribe...often short-story length and occasionally novel-length...here 3. So there. Now you *have* to respond to what I've said defensively, and claim that what I've said about you isn't true, so we can have an argument in which I can prove that what I said was true and that I rule. 4. If you don't respond defensively to the things I've said that are WRONG with you and argue with me, that means that something is even MORE WRONG with you. Fascinatingly enough, when someone (the people who have recently posted their book about their experiences with him) run that same number on Robin, he can't even bring himself to read it. Imagine what he would have said about Curtis ignoring *his* book-length condem- nations of him; he would have pitched a hissy fit. Oh wait...in fact, he did throw such hissy fits...many times. I'm posting this because a great number of people here seem to carry the high-dopamine-generating COMT gene, and are absolute suckers for what someone SAYS, and unable to see that the words have nothing to do with what they ARE. This IMO may have something to do with the fact that they run the same NPD numbers on other people on a regular basis themselves. I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. First, pretty classic Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and a case of NPD that is getting WORSE, not better. The very fact that he landed on the Internet -- first on TM-Free and now here -- *still* running the same Look at me...I'm fascinating if you see the 'real' me... and if you'll just sit back and read the next 5000 words, I'll tell you what that 'real' me is number -- indicates someone who is trying to *reestablish* his narcissism and delusions of self importance, not overcome them. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
And please I beg you..pet them, pet Barry and salyavin808 - they desperately crave attention, show them we care, show them they have something coherent, intelligent and important things to say. On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 12:03 AM, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.comwrote: And now..stay tuned for some analysis from the resident retards, dumb motherfuckers of this list - the paranoid, delusional, narcissist Barry and the chinless, drooling, salivating puppy salyavin808. On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 11:50 PM, turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: Ha ha, you just can't help yourself can you! You have to niggle at every little thing thinking you're making some sort of smart point about it. What do you think all this enlightenment stuff is about if not for self improvement, can't you read what he was trying to do? It's therapy and none of it was a million miles from what every other shrink is trying to do, they just don't do it publicly or abusively is all. I stand on my earlier description of what not only Robin's primary act -- both then and now -- is, but what the act of most of those who support and enable him is: 1. Here are some things I think are WRONG with you. 2. insert diatribe...often short-story length and occasionally novel-length...here 3. So there. Now you *have* to respond to what I've said defensively, and claim that what I've said about you isn't true, so we can have an argument in which I can prove that what I said was true and that I rule. 4. If you don't respond defensively to the things I've said that are WRONG with you and argue with me, that means that something is even MORE WRONG with you. Fascinatingly enough, when someone (the people who have recently posted their book about their experiences with him) run that same number on Robin, he can't even bring himself to read it. Imagine what he would have said about Curtis ignoring *his* book-length condem- nations of him; he would have pitched a hissy fit. Oh wait...in fact, he did throw such hissy fits...many times. I'm posting this because a great number of people here seem to carry the high-dopamine-generating COMT gene, and are absolute suckers for what someone SAYS, and unable to see that the words have nothing to do with what they ARE. This IMO may have something to do with the fact that they run the same NPD numbers on other people on a regular basis themselves. I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. First, pretty classic Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and a case of NPD that is getting WORSE, not better. The very fact that he landed on the Internet -- first on TM-Free and now here -- *still* running the same Look at me...I'm fascinating if you see the 'real' me... and if you'll just sit back and read the next 5000 words, I'll tell you what that 'real' me is number -- indicates someone who is trying to *reestablish* his narcissism and delusions of self importance, not overcome them. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT (How to Order PDF)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325195 Select the email link mentioned in the above message and request a copy of the pdf. Vishnu Datta will probably reply within the day. I am about halfway through and sometimes feel quite uncomfortable with some of the confrontations mentioned. Unlike some of his followers here on FFL, I can see the RWC of today in many of the descriptions in the book...his drama-queenery, his wry/ironic sense of humor, his mission to get his message out as the World Teacher, etc. etc. Also, I believe that although RWC promoted the idea of each person finding the highest level of individuality, he didn't really believe in it and kept his followers dependent on him just as a true cult leader does. As far as being sorry for what he did 25 years ago, I don't yet believe that RWC truly means that, and can't figure out why some on FFL believe it just by what he writes, without meeting face-to-face and getting to know him all over again over a reasonable period of time as he now purports to be. Additionally, it's the way in which he expresses his regret (and I'm not sure if he's even asked to be forgiven) that doesn't ring as sincere...I get the feeling that he is making fun of the person to whom he is responding, as in his last lengthy response to Share: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325673 It all sounds reasonable up to a point until he starts condemning some of his most avid supporters...that I know he's not being sincere. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: I'm completely out of the loop. Everyone is reading this book, CULT, it seems. Where do I find this book? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: snip I recently spoke with a friend who is a tenured professor of psychology about cult leaders and whether or the control personality can be cured. He is not sure it can be. He is also a former TM'er and was well aware of Robin's cult. He sometimes reads FFL for kicks so I told him to check in on Robin's threads here. Depending on which and how many threads he reads, he's unlikely to get anything but a very superficial picture of Robin as he is today. There are probably some general statements that can be made about cults, but it seems to me individual cults are too different from each other to apply such statements with confidence to a given cult, and especially to a given cult leader. Cult leaders are, virtually by definition, highly unusual individuals, and therefore more likely to be very different from one another. I also suspect that a former cult leader who spends 25 years--that is a LONG TIME, folks--working uncompromisingly to rid himself of the flawed traits and infirmities that caused his downfall is a pretty rare if not unique animal. Finally, Robin's aim for his group was for each person to achieve the greatest degree of individuality possible. Even given the wide variation among cults, that's an unusual characteristic. Typically the goal is to achieve as much uniformity among the members as possible because that facilitates the leader's ability to control them. Your psychology professor needs to be aware of these elements in some depth before deciding whether Robin is cured.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@... wrote: I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me. I don't deal in guilt, but I do call a spade a spade. CULT deals with suffering, a universal theme, and the cruelty and betrayal that characterize all cults. The book is mainly meant to educate about what cults are through the details of The Context. What kind of intelligent criticism suggests let alone asserts that what is written about past events is useless? Such an argument infers that history and biography are ridiculous acts of literature. Indeed, such an argument threatens the entire field of literature. It feels obvious that someone who admittedly has committed such acts of terror, treachery and betrayal as Robin Carlsen would at all costs avoid the public forum, and be especially wary of trying to say he knows more about others than they know about themselves. Wouldn't a reformed criminal realize the temptation to again commit crimes, just as sobered alcoholics know hat their disease is a lifelong issue? And yet here on FFL we see many examples of Robin confronting this person and that, of pontificating. It seems that he is addicted to an ongoing sense of power and knowingness. Which makes Mr. Carlsen's recent diatribe all the more questionable and even pathetic in its attempt to convince people about any sincerity or true change, which he achieves in part by putting other persons, however sincere, down, trying to thoroughly negate them in his all-over-the-map rhetoric. If in fact he has not been on his belly, in the mud, he has not achieved the so-called change that he profusely propounds. Nor has he gained the compassion that such suffering necessarily brings to those who are on the path of healing. While he has `confessed' to doing terrible things, I cannot find one real line of humility that he has written on this site. I carefully read and slowly reread every word that Robin recently posted. Having been a close witness to his style, his every word leaves no doubt in my mind that he is still deluded. This will be my one and only post about this matter.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT (How to Order PDF)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@... wrote: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325195 Select the email link mentioned in the above message and request a copy of the pdf. Vishnu Datta will probably reply within the day. I am about halfway through and sometimes feel quite uncomfortable with some of the confrontations mentioned. Unlike some of his followers here on FFL, I can see the RWC of today in many of the descriptions in the book...his drama-queenery, his wry/ironic sense of humor, his mission to get his message out as the World Teacher, etc. etc. Also, I believe that although RWC promoted the idea of each person finding the highest level of individuality, he didn't really believe in it and kept his followers dependent on him just as a true cult leader does. As far as being sorry for what he did 25 years ago, I don't yet believe that RWC truly means that, and can't figure out why some on FFL believe it just by what he writes, without meeting face-to-face and getting to know him all over again over a reasonable period of time as he now purports to be. Additionally, it's the way in which he expresses his regret (and I'm not sure if he's even asked to be forgiven) that doesn't ring as sincere...I get the feeling that he is making fun of the person to whom he is responding, as in his last lengthy response to Share: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325673 It all sounds reasonable up to a point until he starts condemning some of his most avid supporters...that I know he's not being sincere. laughing-gullible, on his very day Robin will beg for your priestly forgiveness for having been a cult leader 25 years ago. I humbly ask you to absolve him of all his sins. He will beat his chest in agony and self-flagellate kneeling before you in a hair shirt, saying, I am and always have been an incurable cult leader. Any attempt at recovery is a failure. I shall forever bear the mark of CULT LEADER upon my forehead to forewarn all who would befriend me. There ya go, LG. Feel better now? Pass the vapors and ready the fainting couch for all the hand wringers going apoplectic that Robin has gathered a band of witless followers on FFLife. OMG! I just realized I am among the damned who actually like Robin for being as Ravi says, the intelligent, wise, sensitive, compassionate man that he is now. Save me, laughing-gullible, I pray, Oh mighty Robin-Haters of FFLife! I am a victim of Robin's cruel incessant damning of my demonic soul to hell. Only the insightful light bringers of FFLife who see behind the zebra mask can free me from Robin's wretched, menacing, manipulative hold on my mind. Please forgive me for being so stooopid.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT (How to Order PDF)
Thanks LG and it's ok. I now think of irony as one of the most insidious and powerful forms of passive aggressive behavior, especially when used by someone like Robin with such well developed intellect and intuition. And it's a way of deflecting from and creating confusion around valid points that are being made. Standard tactics for both cult members and leaders. I felt uncomfortable reading Cult also. Chilling was the word that often came to mind. Not that I found Bill's writing cold as Robin said and Judy echoed. But because some of the speech patterns and confrontational techniques used then are still being used now. An example is when Robin was is confronting one person and in the middle of that will call out to another, How are you, Bill. BTW, for those who haven't read Cult and thus aren't familiar with that technique, it's a warning that more confrontation is coming, in addition to what's already happening. So that not only is the current confrontee made to squirm. So too is the one anticipating being confronted. A twofer I guess. I believe that Robin is sorry for what he did all those years ago. It seems that he has been somewhat successful in his healing journey. And I'm hoping that whatever his diagnosis is, that it's possible for him to have more healing than what he seems to have now. Maybe it's simply that those last stresses are so deep and hidden. I don't know. I just know that from his exchanges here, I think he has a way to go in his healing journey. I'll continue to wish the best for him. AND I'll continue to eschew enabling. It IS possible to do both. From: laughinggull108 no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 8:29 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT (How to Order PDF) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325195 Select the email link mentioned in the above message and request a copy of the pdf. Vishnu Datta will probably reply within the day. I am about halfway through and sometimes feel quite uncomfortable with some of the confrontations mentioned. Unlike some of his followers here on FFL, I can see the RWC of today in many of the descriptions in the book...his drama-queenery, his wry/ironic sense of humor, his mission to get his message out as the World Teacher, etc. etc. Also, I believe that although RWC promoted the idea of each person finding the highest level of individuality, he didn't really believe in it and kept his followers dependent on him just as a true cult leader does. As far as being sorry for what he did 25 years ago, I don't yet believe that RWC truly means that, and can't figure out why some on FFL believe it just by what he writes, without meeting face-to-face and getting to know him all over again over a reasonable period of time as he now purports to be. Additionally, it's the way in which he expresses his regret (and I'm not sure if he's even asked to be forgiven) that doesn't ring as sincere...I get the feeling that he is making fun of the person to whom he is responding, as in his last lengthy response to Share: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325673 It all sounds reasonable up to a point until he starts condemning some of his most avid supporters...that I know he's not being sincere. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 feste37@... wrote: I'm completely out of the loop. Everyone is reading this book, CULT, it seems. Where do I find this book? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@ wrote: snip I recently spoke with a friend who is a tenured professor of psychology about cult leaders and whether or the control personality can be cured. He is not sure it can be. He is also a former TM'er and was well aware of Robin's cult. He sometimes reads FFL for kicks so I told him to check in on Robin's threads here. Depending on which and how many threads he reads, he's unlikely to get anything but a very superficial picture of Robin as he is today. There are probably some general statements that can be made about cults, but it seems to me individual cults are too different from each other to apply such statements with confidence to a given cult, and especially to a given cult leader. Cult leaders are, virtually by definition, highly unusual individuals, and therefore more likely to be very different from one another. I also suspect that a former cult leader who spends 25 years--that is a LONG TIME, folks--working uncompromisingly to rid himself of the flawed traits and infirmities that caused his downfall is a pretty rare if not unique animal. Finally, Robin's aim for his group was for each person to achieve the greatest degree of individuality possible. Even given the wide variation
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT (How to Order PDF)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog raunchydog@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@ wrote: snip Pass the vapors and ready the fainting couch for all the hand wringers going apoplectic that Robin has gathered a band of witless followers on FFLife. OMG! I just realized I am among the damned who actually like Robin for being as Ravi says, the intelligent, wise, sensitive, compassionate man that he is now. And you know that how? Through his writings without ever having met the man? How easily you can be influenced! Save me, laughing-gullible, I pray, Oh mighty Robin-Haters of FFLife! I am a victim of Robin's cruel incessant damning of my demonic soul to hell. Only the insightful light bringers of FFLife who see behind the zebra mask can free me from Robin's wretched, menacing, manipulative hold on my mind. Please forgive me for being so stooopid. I am offering my opinion just as you are. No need to get all bent out of shape. Now I suppose I'll hear from Ravi.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT (How to Order PDF)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@... wrote: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325195 Select the email link mentioned in the above message and request a copy of the pdf. Vishnu Datta will probably reply within the day. I am about halfway through and sometimes feel quite uncomfortable with some of the confrontations mentioned. It isn't pleasant reading. Unlike some of his followers here on FFL Whps. Robin doesn't have any followers on FFL. He has admirers and supporters and friends, just like many if not most others here. The term followers is used by his adversaries quite deliberately to suggest something that is not true. Don't fall for it. He isn't teaching, he isn't leading. He renounced all that a quarter-century ago. He's just another bozo like the rest of us. I can see the RWC of today in many of the descriptions in the book...his drama-queenery, his wry/ironic sense of humor, his mission to get his message out as the World Teacher, Well, no, you don't see that last at all in today's Robin. The World Teacher business is entirely in the past. etc. etc. Also, I believe that although RWC promoted the idea of each person finding the highest level of individuality, he didn't really believe in it and kept his followers dependent on him just as a true cult leader does. I can't say what he believed 25 years ago, and I'm not sure how you can either. Maybe he'll speak to this. As far as being sorry for what he did 25 years ago, I don't yet believe that RWC truly means that, and can't figure out why some on FFL believe it just by what he writes, without meeting face-to-face and getting to know him all over again over a reasonable period of time as he now purports to be. The only person here to whom that might apply is Ann. Nobody else knew him back then. Whether meeting face-to-face is necessary to decide that he means what he says in his posts is an interesting question. Many of us on FFL have never met each other face-to-face; we know each other only by what we write. If we all felt that we could trust each other only after getting to know each other face-to-face, it seems to me interactions would be pretty severely constrained. I think most of us get a sense of whether someone else is sincere after having read a number of their posts. We know Barry is a chronic liar, for example. I have never had the feeling Robin was being insincere, let alone dishonest, in anything he's said seriously. Additionally, it's the way in which he expresses his regret (and I'm not sure if he's even asked to be forgiven) that doesn't ring as sincere... It does to me and to quite a few others here. I get the feeling that he is making fun of the person to whom he is responding, as in his last lengthy response to Share: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/325673 It all sounds reasonable up to a point until he starts condemning some of his most avid supporters...that I know he's not being sincere. Right. Most of us who have followed his posts and know what he thinks of Share recognized that this was one of his ironic posts from the very first words. His penchant for irony can be a little confusing if you aren't familiar with the context. He expects that anybody who's been paying attention to what goes on on FFL will know when he's being ironic and when he isn't. But if it's one of his ironic posts that has led you to conclude that he doesn't sincerely regret his past, you'll be making a huge mistake.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT (How to Order PDF)
--- raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: snip Pass the vapors and ready the fainting couch for all the hand wringers going apoplectic that Robin has gathered a band of witless followers on FFLife. OMG! I just realized I am among the damned who actually like Robin for being as Ravi says, the intelligent, wise, sensitive, compassionate man that he is now. --- laughinggull108 no_reply@... wrote: And you know that how? Through his writings without ever having met the man? How easily you can be influenced! LG, note she used the word 'wise' on Robin. Ha, thats kinda funny. --- raunchydog raunchydog@ wrote: Save me, laughing-gullible, I pray, Oh mighty Robin-Haters of FFLife! I am a victim of Robin's cruel incessant damning of my demonic soul to hell. Only the insightful light bringers of FFLife who see behind the zebra mask can free me from Robin's wretched, menacing, manipulative hold on my mind. Please forgive me for being so stooopid. --- laughinggull108 no_reply@... wrote: I am offering my opinion just as you are. No need to get all bent out of shape. Now I suppose I'll hear from Ravi.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi108 no_reply@... wrote: One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. If you'd read his posts, you'd know that he not only acknowledges but insists that his enlightenment was engineered and sustained by negative entities, which, according to him, took advantage of his own seriously flawed character traits. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. That's an amusing statement, given how many posts Robin has made here that are not just radically anti-TM but anti-enlightenment in general. Before you make any further comments concerning whether Robin has or has not changed, it would probably be a good idea to read more of what he's written on FFL (or the TM-Free blog) so you know what his present positions are and can avoid making gross errors like what you say above.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: snip I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. And we all believe Barry, don't we, class? We know from long experience how HONEST he is. He would never EVER tell us anything that wasn't true. No reputable psychotherapist would attempt to diagnose someone from their posts to an electronic forum. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. Barry, you are sooo STOOPID. How long have you been using the Internet, again? And remember, BARRY DOES NOT READ ROBIN'S POSTS. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony, Projectionist Extraordinaire, Button Pusher to the World. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach. But not for long, because you CANNOT TOLERATE it that Robin gets more attention here than you do. You can't tolerate it that he's smarter and funnier and WAY NICER and VASTLY MORE INTERESTING than you are. You can't tolerate it that he's a year or two older than you and his mind is still sharp as a tack, while yours is deteriorating rapidly. You can't stand it that you not only lack the chops to match his thoughtfulness and originality, you aren't even up to understanding what he writes. You can't bear it that people RESPECT him and think you're a sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality. Robin Carlsen is your worst FFL nightmare.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@ wrote: snip [salyavin wrote:] I've only just started reading it as it ended up in my junk folder (possibly not for karmic reasons) but I'm finding it fascinating, can't offer any opinions yet other than that Robin was clearly a deluded megalomaniac As he himself acknowledges. and that the American Psychiatric Association would have had him strung up for his therapeutic technique, Just so you know, he didn't claim to be a therapist, so the APA wouldn't have had anything to say about what he was doing. Ha ha, you just can't help yourself can you! You have to niggle at every little thing thinking you're making some sort of smart point about it. Oh, get off it. All I was doing was giving you a piece of information it wasn't clear that you (or others who might be reading this) were aware of. What do you think all this enlightenment stuff is about if not for self improvement, can't you read what he was trying to do? I guess you missed my point, since you appear to think what you just said was somehow relevant to what I had said. So let me say it another way: Robin didn't claim to be a therapist, so the APA wouldn't have had anything to say about what he was doing. Are there any words in that sentence you don't understand? snip This will be my one and only post about this matter. Probably a good idea unless you want to spend the rest of your life arguing with Robin's self appointed defenders, what they get out of it is anyone's guess, it's not like they were there. None of Robin's defenders, of course, have been defending what he did 30 years ago, so that last is a non sequitur. They're defending Robin as he is today, because they can see that he is no longer what he was back then. They find him an appealing human being with many virtues, including great intelligence, profound and original thoughtfulness, compassion and appreciation, and a finely honed wit. To try to crucify him as he is today for what he did in the past appears to us grossly unfair and unjust given his outspoken condemnation of himself and obviously painful regret for his past behavior. Many people, you may be surprised to learn, take a certain satisfaction in opposing unfairness and injustice. That's what we get out of it; it's hardly an obscure secret. Again, you get carried away with the knee-jerk defence, all I said was he is still recognisable. Funny, you didn't say anything to that effect. You did say a couple of other things I wanted to comment on. But I see you haven't got your reading comprehension tutor working with you, so there's no point in attempting to dig you out of your confusion. Meaning he's a manipulative, smartarse still. I don't find him to be the least bit manipulative, and he's by far the wittiest, most clever smartass on this forum. Not as manic as he was perhaps but psychosis wears off eventually for most people. Not a 10-year psychosis (if that's what it was). He had to root it out, it didn't just wear off. Opposing unfairness and injustice So you're some sort of superhero? It's only superheroes who oppose unfairness and injustice? Gee, I thought ordinary people did it too. As you are into blame, where would you lay the responsibility for Robin's megalomania? I'm not into blame, and I wouldn't even try to assign responsibility for something like that. Robin obviously blames himself, and since he's in a better position to know than I am, I'll just take his word for it. snip What lessons have you learnt from being near cults? I wouldn't characterize myself as having been near cults. I was only ever on the periphery of the TMO, and that was before it began to become cultish. I haven't been anywhere near any real cults. I do think the term cult is too often used in a way that has the effect of threatening freedom of religion and freedom of speech, so I'm quite wary of it. I've taken note of what I call the anti-cult fallacy, which says that any group that has a few of the supposed characteristics of cults is therefore a cult--even if many groups that nobody would consider cults have the same characteristics. Anticultists, in my observation, are extremely sloppy with their terminology and their logic. And as I say, you can mistake your inner world for what's going on out there all too easily. Robin has delivered us a valuable lesson there, and continues to do so. I see. So you are able infallibly to determine when a person is making this mistake?
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
It is jaw-droppingly astonishing that Barry would think for even a nanosecond that anyone would assume he had anything even remotely valid to say about Robin, given that Barry PRIDES HIMSELF ON NOT READING ROBIN'S POSTS and has boasted loudly about this on many occasions. Barry has no idea whether Robin has changed from 30 years ago. He has no idea whether Robin is truthful. He has no idea whether Robin lacks empathy or caring. He isn't in a position to say WORD ONE about Robin. The other astonishing thing is Barry's prattling about how chronic lying is characteristic of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, when we all know that lying is Barry's stock in trade. You'd think it would occur to him that he's indicting himself as suffering from NPD, but he's utterly oblivious. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: snip Narcissistic Personality Disorder is incredibly difficult to treat, and pretty much impossible to self-treat. The problem is that the person with NPD considers literally everyone he encounters an opportunity to reinforce his self-importance and specialness, and will therefore LIE to them, often unconsciously, because the only thing that matters to him is that someone is continuing to focus on him. I have known therapists who have given up on *ever* attempting to try to treat people with NPD, because it just isn't worth the time, effort, and heartbreak. You think that the patient has made some progress, and then you find out that it's just another layer of the onion, and that everything he's been telling you for the last few months has been a lie, merely calculated to keep you playing the game. This is my perception of what Robin Carlsen is doing on this forum. The thing I find most difficult to believe in all of this mess is that anyone here truly believes that Robin is in any way different today than he was back then. I don't see that. What I see is the exact same narcissistic acting out, and the exact same lack of empathy and lack of caring. The only thing important to him -- then or now -- seems to be trying to get other people to believe *his* version of the Robin story. To believe that Robin has changed, one has to believe Robin. I have seen nothing on this forum that convinces me he has *ever* made a truthful statement. It's all been playing the narcissist's game, and truth is quite irrelevant to that game. The people I feel sorriest for are not those mistreated by Robin in the past but those who have fallen for his act in the present.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Happy to see that that week you spent in a shelter enhanced your humanity, Jude. :-) Oh, by the way, where is that story you said you were thinking of writing about your experiences there? Was it the allure of coming back to FFL and ripping into Share that put it out of your mind, or the realization that if you actually followed through on it you'd have to try to actually write something creative and non- reactive? Curious minds want to know. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. And we all believe Barry, don't we, class? We know from long experience how HONEST he is. He would never EVER tell us anything that wasn't true. No reputable psychotherapist would attempt to diagnose someone from their posts to an electronic forum. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. Barry, you are sooo STOOPID. How long have you been using the Internet, again? And remember, BARRY DOES NOT READ ROBIN'S POSTS. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony, Projectionist Extraordinaire, Button Pusher to the World. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach. But not for long, because you CANNOT TOLERATE it that Robin gets more attention here than you do. You can't tolerate it that he's smarter and funnier and WAY NICER and VASTLY MORE INTERESTING than you are. You can't tolerate it that he's a year or two older than you and his mind is still sharp as a tack, while yours is deteriorating rapidly. You can't stand it that you not only lack the chops to match his thoughtfulness and originality, you aren't even up to understanding what he writes. You can't bear it that people RESPECT him and think you're a sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality. Robin Carlsen is your worst FFL nightmare.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Kaladevi (heh, heh) Your field of view is limited by unexamined assumptions. The yogic traditions of India and Tibet categorize jiva-s by guna and karma, although Buddhists use a different terminology. Not every human born here is a human jiva or human soul. There are different types of jiva-s born into human bodies - depending upon their currently functioning vasana-s or habitual tendencies. Some are daiva, some manusya and some are rakshasya. Even more to the point, not all of them are just reborn humans from the gross physical realm. Some are jiva-s that took a dive from other parts of bhu-mandala, just wanting to get in on the action. Perhaps instead you should question if Robin isn't a rakshasa jiva. That would explain why he has some inherent power but little faithfulness in anything but himself. It also would explain why he could excuse himself from ordinary human doubts during his pseudo-enlightenment. That would also explain how he could later, just as blindly, proscribe that psychological state when his scheme fell apart. Likewise, for his attempt to claim restoration to an ordinary human state. Apparently this can be ascertained by casting their rashi and bhava jyotish charts. However, we could just take him at his word It wasn't me ... it just happened. The devils made me do it. Lastly, as an Acharya told me Yes it's true they are a rakshasa jiva but this person has taken refuge (sharanam) and is now under the guidance of a form of god. Perhaps the same here perhaps not. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi108 no_reply@... wrote: One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@ wrote: I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me. I don't deal in guilt, but I do call a spade a spade. CULT deals with suffering, a universal theme, and the cruelty and betrayal that characterize all cults. The book is mainly meant to educate about what cults are through the details of The Context. What kind of intelligent criticism suggests let alone asserts that what is written about past events is useless? Such an argument infers that history and biography are ridiculous acts of literature. Indeed, such an argument threatens the entire field of literature. It feels obvious that someone who admittedly has committed such acts of terror, treachery and betrayal as Robin Carlsen would at all costs avoid the public forum, and be especially wary of trying to say he knows more about others than they know about themselves. Wouldn't a reformed criminal realize the temptation to again commit crimes, just as sobered alcoholics know hat their disease is a lifelong issue? And yet here on FFL we see many examples of Robin confronting this person and that, of pontificating. It seems that he is addicted to an ongoing sense of power and knowingness. Which makes Mr. Carlsen's recent diatribe all the more questionable and even pathetic in its attempt to convince people about any sincerity or true change, which he achieves in part by putting other persons, however sincere, down, trying to thoroughly negate them in his
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Happy to see that that week you spent in a shelter enhanced your humanity, Jude. :-) Obviously I touched a nerve. Barry almost never addresses me directly. And by name, yet! Oh, by the way, where is that story you said you were thinking of writing about your experiences there? I'll get to it when I get to it (probably not until the folks out for Robin's blood have had their fill, or their suckers have become weary). It'll be just some straightforward observations. I don't think a piece of writing needs to be creative to be worth reading. Was it the allure of coming back to FFL and ripping into Share that put it out of your mind, or the realization that if you actually followed through on it you'd have to try to actually write something creative and non- reactive? Curious minds want to know. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. And we all believe Barry, don't we, class? We know from long experience how HONEST he is. He would never EVER tell us anything that wasn't true. No reputable psychotherapist would attempt to diagnose someone from their posts to an electronic forum. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. Barry, you are sooo STOOPID. How long have you been using the Internet, again? And remember, BARRY DOES NOT READ ROBIN'S POSTS. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony, Projectionist Extraordinaire, Button Pusher to the World. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach. But not for long, because you CANNOT TOLERATE it that Robin gets more attention here than you do. You can't tolerate it that he's smarter and funnier and WAY NICER and VASTLY MORE INTERESTING than you are. You can't tolerate it that he's a year or two older than you and his mind is still sharp as a tack, while yours is deteriorating rapidly. You can't stand it that you not only lack the chops to match his thoughtfulness and originality, you aren't even up to understanding what he writes. You can't bear it that people RESPECT him and think you're a sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality. Robin Carlsen is your worst FFL nightmare.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: snip However, we could just take him at his word It wasn't me ... it just happened. The devils made me do it. We wouldn't want to do that, however, without noting that according to Robin, it was his own character flaws that made it possible for the entities in question to have control over him, so he takes complete personal responsibility for all the bad stuff they made him do. It would be dishonest not to include this as part of his word.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
It would appear, by Robin's own account, that he was born human and then something entered his soul-jiva in Switzerland. Ayurvedic texts describe a number of entities that typically possess human beings, it could be any of a group of various entities (asuras, rakshasas, etc.). Some may find this offensive (the belief that possession actually exists), so in such a case, there are alternate explanations in modern psychiatry. There are divinations that could be done to find out the actual nature of the superimposition, but I seriously doubt that would be helpful to him. He seems to believe it is the Vedic Gods that are responsible. The operative point here you seem to have missed. It is not what type of birth he represents, but that like sees like, IOW his peculiar possession (if you wish to call it that) allowed him to see demons in others. He then engaged in a plan of action that caused harm to others. From these facts we can triangulate what makes sense and what does not. A jyotish chart is forthcoming, so we may be able to examine that for clues in space-time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Kaladevi (heh, heh) Your field of view is limited by unexamined assumptions. The yogic traditions of India and Tibet categorize jiva-s by guna and karma, although Buddhists use a different terminology. Not every human born here is a human jiva or human soul. There are different types of jiva-s born into human bodies - depending upon their currently functioning vasana-s or habitual tendencies. Some are daiva, some manusya and some are rakshasya. Even more to the point, not all of them are just reborn humans from the gross physical realm. Some are jiva-s that took a dive from other parts of bhu-mandala, just wanting to get in on the action. Perhaps instead you should question if Robin isn't a rakshasa jiva. That would explain why he has some inherent power but little faithfulness in anything but himself. It also would explain why he could excuse himself from ordinary human doubts during his pseudo-enlightenment. That would also explain how he could later, just as blindly, proscribe that psychological state when his scheme fell apart. Likewise, for his attempt to claim restoration to an ordinary human state. Apparently this can be ascertained by casting their rashi and bhava jyotish charts. However, we could just take him at his word It wasn't me ... it just happened. The devils made me do it. Lastly, as an Acharya told me Yes it's true they are a rakshasa jiva but this person has taken refuge (sharanam) and is now under the guidance of a form of god. Perhaps the same here perhaps not. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi108 no_reply@ wrote: One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@ wrote: I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me. I don't deal in guilt, but I do call a spade a spade. CULT deals with suffering, a universal theme, and the cruelty and betrayal that characterize all cults. The book is mainly meant to educate about what cults
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Kaladev It is too easy to simply say psychotic break and then assume this is a sufficient explanation.The same pertains to spirit possession. Here in the West we lack a sufficient topology of degrees of being and alternate types of intelligence. Not all types of daimons are good - such as the daimon that helped Socrates. That is why the Greek Neo-platonists talked about kakon daimons ... so-called evil daimons. But this is also true of the jiva-souls taking birth here. Bhu-mandala is an enormous expanse and this is just one loka/location. BTW, asura is a popular term that supposedly is the privative a/not placed in front of sura - a solar deva. However, according to Jan Gonda and other polymath Sanskritists, it originally meant giver of breath and was another title for the primal deva-s. Perhaps this reflects the descending (pravritti) impulse of souls enfolding deeper into the field of generation and the role of kakon daimons in capturing and entraping souls into denser forms of tamo-guna (darkness). However, that is a bit too much of an explanation like the christian Gnostics for my taste and Robin doesn't appear to be a descended Archon. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi108 no_reply@... wrote: It would appear, by Robin's own account, that he was born human and then something entered his soul-jiva in Switzerland. Ayurvedic texts describe a number of entities that typically possess human beings, it could be any of a group of various entities (asuras, rakshasas, etc.). Some may find this offensive (the belief that possession actually exists), so in such a case, there are alternate explanations in modern psychiatry. There are divinations that could be done to find out the actual nature of the superimposition, but I seriously doubt that would be helpful to him. He seems to believe it is the Vedic Gods that are responsible. The operative point here you seem to have missed. It is not what type of birth he represents, but that like sees like, IOW his peculiar possession (if you wish to call it that) allowed him to see demons in others. He then engaged in a plan of action that caused harm to others. From these facts we can triangulate what makes sense and what does not. A jyotish chart is forthcoming, so we may be able to examine that for clues in space-time. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Kaladevi (heh, heh) Your field of view is limited by unexamined assumptions. The yogic traditions of India and Tibet categorize jiva-s by guna and karma, although Buddhists use a different terminology. Not every human born here is a human jiva or human soul. There are different types of jiva-s born into human bodies - depending upon their currently functioning vasana-s or habitual tendencies. Some are daiva, some manusya and some are rakshasya. Even more to the point, not all of them are just reborn humans from the gross physical realm. Some are jiva-s that took a dive from other parts of bhu-mandala, just wanting to get in on the action. Perhaps instead you should question if Robin isn't a rakshasa jiva. That would explain why he has some inherent power but little faithfulness in anything but himself. It also would explain why he could excuse himself from ordinary human doubts during his pseudo-enlightenment. That would also explain how he could later, just as blindly, proscribe that psychological state when his scheme fell apart. Likewise, for his attempt to claim restoration to an ordinary human state. Apparently this can be ascertained by casting their rashi and bhava jyotish charts. However, we could just take him at his word It wasn't me ... it just happened. The devils made me do it. Lastly, as an Acharya told me Yes it's true they are a rakshasa jiva but this person has taken refuge (sharanam) and is now under the guidance of a form of god. Perhaps the same here perhaps not. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi108 no_reply@ wrote: One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, kaladevi108 no_reply@... wrote: It would appear, by Robin's own account, that he was born human and then something entered his soul-jiva in Switzerland. Ayurvedic texts describe a number of entities that typically possess human beings, it could be any of a group of various entities (asuras, rakshasas, etc.). Some may find this offensive (the belief that possession actually exists), so in such a case, there are alternate explanations in modern psychiatry. I don't find it offensive, just ridiculous. Just because it's old and Indian doesn't mean it's right I'm happy to be able to tell you. Things have moved on, not in the TMO though, John Hagelin thinks reading tea leaves is an adequate method of divination and will happy misrepresent quantum physics in order to keep the donations coming in. There are divinations that could be done to find out the actual nature of the superimposition, but I seriously doubt that would be helpful to him. He seems to believe it is the Vedic Gods that are responsible. There are psychoactive drugs you can take that stop hallucinations, should you not be enjoying them. Seeing demons in people is a chara- cteristic symptom of psychosis. Projections of your own inner turmoil doncha know. All very well understood and nothing to do with gods, vedic or otherwise. We've moved on. Luckily for the ill amongst us. The operative point here you seem to have missed. It is not what type of birth he represents, but that like sees like, IOW his peculiar possession (if you wish to call it that) allowed him to see demons in others. He then engaged in a plan of action that caused harm to others. You can be forcibly admitted to hospital for this. From these facts we can triangulate what makes sense and what does not. A jyotish chart is forthcoming, so we may be able to examine that for clues in space-time. Good luck and do post your results. Maybe you'll convince and old sceptic like me...
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. Your enabling Robin is actually very harmful to him. Even if he can't or won't see that. BTW, TurqB, I only read 2 of Judy's posts and that was enough for me to get their tenor. Then Jason described how peaceful it was when she was gone and what the rest of her posts had been like. I realized I had made a wise decision to give her posts a miss. I think I managed to avoid the worst of her ripping into me. From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: Happy to see that that week you spent in a shelter enhanced your humanity, Jude. :-) Obviously I touched a nerve. Barry almost never addresses me directly. And by name, yet! Oh, by the way, where is that story you said you were thinking of writing about your experiences there? I'll get to it when I get to it (probably not until the folks out for Robin's blood have had their fill, or their suckers have become weary). It'll be just some straightforward observations. I don't think a piece of writing needs to be creative to be worth reading. Was it the allure of coming back to FFL and ripping into Share that put it out of your mind, or the realization that if you actually followed through on it you'd have to try to actually write something creative and non- reactive? Curious minds want to know. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. And we all believe Barry, don't we, class? We know from long experience how HONEST he is. He would never EVER tell us anything that wasn't true. No reputable psychotherapist would attempt to diagnose someone from their posts to an electronic forum. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. Barry, you are sooo STOOPID. How long have you been using the Internet, again? And remember, BARRY DOES NOT READ ROBIN'S POSTS. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony, Projectionist Extraordinaire, Button Pusher to the World. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach. But not for long, because you CANNOT TOLERATE it that Robin gets more attention here than you do. You can't tolerate it that he's smarter and funnier and WAY NICER and VASTLY MORE INTERESTING than you are. You can't tolerate it that he's a year or two older than you and his mind is still sharp as a tack, while yours is deteriorating rapidly. You can't stand it that you not only lack the chops to match his thoughtfulness and originality, you aren't even up to understanding what he writes. You can't bear it that people RESPECT him and think you're a sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality. Robin Carlsen is your worst FFL nightmare.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Share
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: snip BTW, TurqB, I only read 2 of Judy's posts and that was enough for me to get their tenor. Then Jason described how peaceful it was when she was gone and what the rest of her posts had been like. I realized I had made a wise decision to give her posts a miss. I think I managed to avoid the worst of her ripping into me. Good on ya, Share. Remember a month or so ago when I wrote Look away, look away, it's hideous!...what you're doing now is what I meant. Also, I think you're the type of person who doesn't choose sides. Keep an open mind towards all posters here on FFL...some real gems come out of everyone's keyboard occasionally. And it's always *your* choice whether or not to respond. (There I go again, preaching to the choir!) snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. Your enabling Robin is actually very harmful to him. Even if he can't or won't see that. BTW, TurqB, I only read 2 of Judy's posts and that was enough for me to get their tenor. Then Jason described how peaceful it was when she was gone and what the rest of her posts had been like. I realized I had made a wise decision to give her posts a miss. I think I managed to avoid the worst of her ripping into me. From: authfriend authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Happy to see that that week you spent in a shelter enhanced your humanity, Jude. :-) Obviously I touched a nerve. Barry almost never addresses me directly. And by name, yet! Oh, by the way, where is that story you said you were thinking of writing about your experiences there? I'll get to it when I get to it (probably not until the folks out for Robin's blood have had their fill, or their suckers have become weary). It'll be just some straightforward observations. I don't think a piece of writing needs to be creative to be worth reading. Was it the allure of coming back to FFL and ripping into Share that put it out of your mind, or the realization that if you actually followed through on it you'd have to try to actually write something creative and non- reactive? Curious minds want to know. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. And we all believe Barry, don't we, class? We know from long experience how HONEST he is. He would never EVER tell us anything that wasn't true. No reputable psychotherapist would attempt to diagnose someone from their posts to an electronic forum. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. Barry, you are sooo STOOPID. How long have you been using the Internet, again? And remember, BARRY DOES NOT READ ROBIN'S POSTS. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony, Projectionist Extraordinaire, Button Pusher to the World. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach. But not for long, because you CANNOT TOLERATE it that Robin gets more attention here than you do. You can't tolerate it that he's smarter and funnier and WAY NICER and VASTLY MORE INTERESTING than you are. You can't tolerate it that he's a year or two older than you and his mind is still sharp as a tack, while yours is deteriorating rapidly. You can't stand it that you not only lack the chops to match his thoughtfulness and originality, you aren't even up to understanding what he writes. You can't bear it that people RESPECT him and think you're a sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality. Robin Carlsen is your worst FFL nightmare. Judy, how in the world has all this gotten you so worked up about someone you have never met (Robin)? I appreciate your loyalty to someone whose posts you admire. But come on.. So you and Barry differ in your assessments of Robin - so what? Apparently even the folks who actually knew Robin and got hurt by him have different opinions - that's life.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. Your enabling Robin is actually very harmful to him. Even if he can't or won't see that. Yep, Judy does like to polarise things, this You're either for us or against us line has been especially strong recently. And Judy just *loves* getting righteous on someone elses behalf, she's unique like that, I think she's over-compensating for some guilty secret she's got. Robin should do a confrontation and free her of it. That'd be ironic. BTW, TurqB, I only read 2 of Judy's posts and that was enough for me to get their tenor. Then Jason described how peaceful it was when she was gone and what the rest of her posts had been like. I realized I had made a wise decision to give her posts a miss. I think I managed to avoid the worst of her ripping into me. From: authfriend authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Happy to see that that week you spent in a shelter enhanced your humanity, Jude. :-) Obviously I touched a nerve. Barry almost never addresses me directly. And by name, yet! Oh, by the way, where is that story you said you were thinking of writing about your experiences there? I'll get to it when I get to it (probably not until the folks out for Robin's blood have had their fill, or their suckers have become weary). It'll be just some straightforward observations. I don't think a piece of writing needs to be creative to be worth reading. Was it the allure of coming back to FFL and ripping into Share that put it out of your mind, or the realization that if you actually followed through on it you'd have to try to actually write something creative and non- reactive? Curious minds want to know. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. And we all believe Barry, don't we, class? We know from long experience how HONEST he is. He would never EVER tell us anything that wasn't true. No reputable psychotherapist would attempt to diagnose someone from their posts to an electronic forum. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. Barry, you are sooo STOOPID. How long have you been using the Internet, again? And remember, BARRY DOES NOT READ ROBIN'S POSTS. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony, Projectionist Extraordinaire, Button Pusher to the World. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach. But not for long, because you CANNOT TOLERATE it that Robin gets more attention here than you do. You can't tolerate it that he's smarter and funnier and WAY NICER and VASTLY MORE INTERESTING than you are. You can't tolerate it that he's a year or two older than you and his mind is still sharp as a tack, while yours is deteriorating rapidly. You can't stand it that you not only lack the chops to match his thoughtfulness and originality, you aren't even up to understanding what he writes. You can't bear it that people RESPECT him and think you're a sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality. Robin Carlsen is your worst FFL nightmare.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: snip Judy, how in the world has all this gotten you so worked up about someone you have never met (Robin)? Oh, shut up, Susan. You have nothing useful to contribute here.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 12:01 PM, authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com wrote: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@... wrote: snip Judy, how in the world has all this gotten you so worked up about someone you have never met (Robin)? Oh, shut up, Susan. You have nothing useful to contribute here. LOL..my feelings exactly. Shut up Stupid Susan would be more like it.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon. Oh Ms. Kaladevi what did I do? Why are you comparing me with that old guy, the former cult leader? I'm just a naive, innocent, gullible guy, a baby Krishna, that needs to be loved, showered with attention - taken for rides in a stroller - won't you - please? On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 6:52 AM, kaladevi108 no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: ** One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@... wrote: I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me. I don't deal in guilt, but I do call a spade a spade. CULT deals with suffering, a universal theme, and the cruelty and betrayal that characterize all cults. The book is mainly meant to educate about what cults are through the details of The Context. What kind of intelligent criticism suggests let alone asserts that what is written about past events is useless? Such an argument infers that history and biography are ridiculous acts of literature. Indeed, such an argument threatens the entire field of literature. It feels obvious that someone who admittedly has committed such acts of terror, treachery and betrayal as Robin Carlsen would at all costs avoid the public forum, and be especially wary of trying to say he knows more about others than they know about themselves. Wouldn't a reformed criminal realize the temptation to again commit crimes, just as sobered alcoholics know hat their disease is a lifelong issue? And yet here on FFL we see many examples of Robin confronting this person and that, of pontificating. It seems that he is addicted to an ongoing sense of power and knowingness. Which makes Mr. Carlsen's recent diatribe all the more questionable and even pathetic in its attempt to convince people about any sincerity or true change, which he achieves in part by putting other persons, however sincere, down, trying to thoroughly negate them in his all-over-the-map rhetoric. If in fact he has not been on his belly, in the mud, he has not achieved the so-called change that he profusely propounds. Nor has he gained the compassion that such suffering necessarily brings to those who are on the path of healing. While he has `confessed' to doing terrible things, I cannot find one real line of humility that he has written on this site. I carefully read and slowly reread every word that Robin recently posted. Having been a close witness to his style, his every word leaves no doubt in my mind that he is still deluded. This will be my one and only post about this matter.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
On 11/10/2012 10:48 PM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu noozguru@... wrote: I recently spoke with a friend who is a tenured professor of psychology about cult leaders and whether or the control personality can be cured. He is not sure it can be. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is incredibly difficult to treat, and pretty much impossible to self-treat. The problem is that the person with NPD considers literally everyone he encounters an opportunity to reinforce his self-importance and specialness, and will therefore LIE to them, often unconsciously, because the only thing that matters to him is that someone is continuing to focus on him. I have known therapists who have given up on *ever* attempting to try to treat people with NPD, because it just isn't worth the time, effort, and heartbreak. You think that the patient has made some progress, and then you find out that it's just another layer of the onion, and that everything he's been telling you for the last few months has been a lie, merely calculated to keep you playing the game. This is my perception of what Robin Carlsen is doing on this forum. The thing I find most difficult to believe in all of this mess is that anyone here truly believes that Robin is in any way different today than he was back then. I don't see that. What I see is the exact same narcissistic acting out, and the exact same lack of empathy and lack of caring. The only thing important to him -- then or now -- seems to be trying to get other people to believe *his* version of the Robin story. To believe that Robin has changed, one has to believe Robin. I have seen nothing on this forum that convinces me he has *ever* made a truthful statement. It's all been playing the narcissist's game, and truth is quite irrelevant to that game. The people I feel sorriest for are not those mistreated by Robin in the past but those who have fallen for his act in the present. The other thing is we're not trying to DIAGNOSE here. We're looking at a PROFILE of an archetype or how someone likes to present themselves. Hell they could be an actor putting us all on but I doubt it. It would be interesting to know what happens to a person as they grow up that makes them try to control others. It's like a gang leader or bullying instinct. I saw a lot of these back in the fabulous 60s and made enemies of them because I wouldn't fall for their shit. ;-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. Not a tactic, Share, an observation. And I'll stand by it: there are people here who are out for Robin's blood-- http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/out+for+blood --Lord Knows, Howell and his disgusting wife, A little harsh there, don't ya think Judy? You got all that from the one comment she's made here in support of her husband's book? How can everyone involved in Robin's cult 25+ years ago (LK, Howell and his wife, to name a few) have it all *wrong* and you've got it all *right*. Evidently, there is much *more* that these abused people need from their abuser than an admission on a public forum that he was wrong (notwithstanding flaws in his character) and is *now* a different person. If we go strictly by what these people are still feeling and seeing in what they call his *manipulative* current writings, it appears that he's offered nothing to them in that regard. What's really disgusting is that this is being hashed in public rather than making amends privately between the parties involved. Barry, and, of course, yourself. (Don't bother protesting your innocence; what on earth would make you think I'd take you seriously? Especially when you write vicious posts like this one.) snip Robin can do just fine on his own dealing with the vampire crew. But I like to get my own licks in. Call it a personal crusade against dishonesty. Your personal crusade against dishonesty is admirable, Judy, but there is so much dishonesty in the world that I'm sure you see and read about, how can you get any peace or sleep knowing that you can't respond to it all? And why not pursue it where it really counts instead of on an insignificant public forum such as this one? Is it the big-fish-in-a-small-pond syndrome? I think you and many others attribute more power to this forum than it deserves. No one's life is going to be ruined by anything that's written here, and your insults to others take much away from any credibility to be found in what you write. It's like when the writer starts making insults, then s/he has reached the end of the line and we know we've got 'em. snip
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 fintlewoodlewix@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Susan wayback71@ wrote: snip Judy, how in the world has all this gotten you so worked up about someone you have never met (Robin)? Oh, shut up, Susan. You have nothing useful to contribute here. Wow! See what I mean? To be clear, I didn't mean here as in FFL but here as in this discussion. I've never known Susan to have anything important or even interesting to say about personal interactions; she seems to have zero insight into human relations or individual behavior. She's fine when she's into other topics.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Ravioli, Yer so right. He's deceptively usurious while you are merely bi-polar. You just need to return to yer meds while he needs metanoesis. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon. Oh Ms. Kaladevi what did I do? Why are you comparing me with that old guy, the former cult leader? I'm just a naive, innocent, gullible guy, a baby Krishna, that needs to be loved, showered with attention - taken for rides in a stroller - won't you - please? On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 6:52 AM, kaladevi108 no_reply@yahoogroups.comwrote: ** One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. It is a testament to her ego fixation and her need to prove her domination. That is why she offers little in the way of new ideas or positive commentary. She cannot fulfill her ego needs that way. She can only berate and belittle because she has nothing else to offer or apparently nothing else to do. That is why she is an FFL poster girl for vicious and spiteful hate-speech. You have already offered more positive considerations than Judas has in the five years I've been a denizen of FFL. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. Your enabling Robin is actually very harmful to him. Even if he can't or won't see that. BTW, TurqB, I only read 2 of Judy's posts and that was enough for me to get their tenor. Then Jason described how peaceful it was when she was gone and what the rest of her posts had been like. I realized I had made a wise decision to give her posts a miss. I think I managed to avoid the worst of her ripping into me. From: authfriend authfriend@... To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Happy to see that that week you spent in a shelter enhanced your humanity, Jude. :-) Obviously I touched a nerve. Barry almost never addresses me directly. And by name, yet! Oh, by the way, where is that story you said you were thinking of writing about your experiences there? I'll get to it when I get to it (probably not until the folks out for Robin's blood have had their fill, or their suckers have become weary). It'll be just some straightforward observations. I don't think a piece of writing needs to be creative to be worth reading. Was it the allure of coming back to FFL and ripping into Share that put it out of your mind, or the realization that if you actually followed through on it you'd have to try to actually write something creative and non- reactive? Curious minds want to know. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. And we all believe Barry, don't we, class? We know from long experience how HONEST he is. He would never EVER tell us anything that wasn't true. No reputable psychotherapist would attempt to diagnose someone from their posts to an electronic forum. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. Barry, you are sooo STOOPID. How long have you been using the Internet, again? And remember, BARRY DOES NOT READ ROBIN'S POSTS. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony, Projectionist Extraordinaire, Button Pusher to the World. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach. But not for long, because you CANNOT TOLERATE it that Robin gets more attention here than you do. You can't tolerate it that he's smarter and funnier and WAY NICER and VASTLY MORE INTERESTING than you are. You can't tolerate it that he's a year or two older than you and his mind is still sharp as a tack, while yours is deteriorating rapidly. You can't stand it that you not only lack the chops to match his thoughtfulness and originality, you aren't even up to understanding what he writes. You can't bear it that people RESPECT him and think you're a sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality. Robin Carlsen is your worst FFL nightmare.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
So true. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. It is a testament to her ego fixation and her need to prove her domination. That is why she offers little in the way of new ideas or positive commentary. She cannot fulfill her ego needs that way. She can only berate and belittle because she has nothing else to offer or apparently nothing else to do. That is why she is an FFL poster girl for vicious and spiteful hate-speech. You have already offered more positive considerations than Judas has in the five years I've been a denizen of FFL. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. Your enabling Robin is actually very harmful to him. Even if he can't or won't see that. BTW, TurqB, I only read 2 of Judy's posts and that was enough for me to get their tenor. Then Jason described how peaceful it was when she was gone and what the rest of her posts had been like. I realized I had made a wise decision to give her posts a miss. I think I managed to avoid the worst of her ripping into me. From: authfriend authfriend@ To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 11:41 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: Happy to see that that week you spent in a shelter enhanced your humanity, Jude. :-) Obviously I touched a nerve. Barry almost never addresses me directly. And by name, yet! Oh, by the way, where is that story you said you were thinking of writing about your experiences there? I'll get to it when I get to it (probably not until the folks out for Robin's blood have had their fill, or their suckers have become weary). It'll be just some straightforward observations. I don't think a piece of writing needs to be creative to be worth reading. Was it the allure of coming back to FFL and ripping into Share that put it out of your mind, or the realization that if you actually followed through on it you'd have to try to actually write something creative and non- reactive? Curious minds want to know. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: snip I have run the sad Robin story past a few of my psychiatrist friends as well, and like Bhairitu have invited them to read what he's written here. All of them agree with my assessment of him. And we all believe Barry, don't we, class? We know from long experience how HONEST he is. He would never EVER tell us anything that wasn't true. No reputable psychotherapist would attempt to diagnose someone from their posts to an electronic forum. The act, as I perceive it, is about the seeking of attention and stroking. Robin actually *loses interest* fairly quickly in anyone he's succeeded in getting to believe him and believe in him; he doesn't engage these people in discussion, and only strokes them when they stroke him. Barry, you are sooo STOOPID. How long have you been using the Internet, again? And remember, BARRY DOES NOT READ ROBIN'S POSTS. The game for him, as far as I can tell, is still a form of *confrontation*, in which he feels compelled to get people TO focus on him and interact with him. THAT is what he gets off on. THAT is what continually reinforces his delusional feelings of self importance. Barry Wright, Master of Inadvertent Irony, Projectionist Extraordinaire, Button Pusher to the World. I honestly feel that it's more of a favor to Robin NOT to do this, and to ignore him as the sad, pathetic, attention-seeking disturbed personality he is. To respond to his attention-trolling, either favorably or unfav- orably, merely perpetuates his delusions. I shall now go back to taking this approach. But not for long, because you CANNOT TOLERATE it that Robin gets more attention here than you do. You can't tolerate it that he's smarter and funnier and WAY NICER and VASTLY MORE INTERESTING than you are. You can't tolerate it that he's a year or two older than you and his mind is still sharp as a tack, while yours is deteriorating rapidly. You can't stand it that you not only lack the chops to match his thoughtfulness and originality, you aren't even up to understanding what he writes. You can't bear
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Oh emptybaby - the suffering Devi I have undergone tolerating your senile induced slanderous, rebellious behavior. On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 12:49 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: ** Ravioli, Yer so right. He's deceptively usurious while you are merely bi-polar. You just need to return to yer meds while he needs metanoesis. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon. Oh Ms. Kaladevi what did I do? Why are you comparing me with that old guy, the former cult leader? I'm just a naive, innocent, gullible guy, a baby Krishna, that needs to be loved, showered with attention - taken for rides in a stroller - won't you - please? On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 6:52 AM, kaladevi108 no_reply@yahoogroups.comwrote: ** One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Ravioi Are you hiding behind Her skirts again? Take yer meds and calm down. Just show Her yer green card and then promise Her you'd rather be Her fool than parade around a vicious ahamkara like Judas. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: Oh emptybaby - the suffering Devi I have undergone tolerating your senile induced slanderous, rebellious behavior. On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 12:49 PM, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: ** Ravioli, Yer so right. He's deceptively usurious while you are merely bi-polar. You just need to return to yer meds while he needs metanoesis. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon. Oh Ms. Kaladevi what did I do? Why are you comparing me with that old guy, the former cult leader? I'm just a naive, innocent, gullible guy, a baby Krishna, that needs to be loved, showered with attention - taken for rides in a stroller - won't you - please? On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 6:52 AM, kaladevi108 no_reply@...: ** One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. Translation: I made two stupid errors in a post yesterday and she called me on them, made me feel all inferior. (BTW, I've just repeated one of them. That'll show her!)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@ wrote: Judy, no one is out for Robin's blood and you know it. Using extreme language and attributing extreme motives to others is one of your usual tactics for deflecting from and creating confusion around the valid issues that have been raised. Not a tactic, Share, an observation. And I'll stand by it: there are people here who are out for Robin's blood-- http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/out+for+blood --Lord Knows, Howell and his disgusting wife, A little harsh there, don't ya think Judy? You got all that from the one comment she's made here in support of her husband's book? Oh, I see you haven't read her post. Maybe you should do that before you ask why I said she was disgusting. How can everyone involved in Robin's cult 25+ years ago (LK, Howell and his wife, to name a few) Those three and Ann are the only ones we've heard from, so, you know, not exactly everyone, eh? have it all *wrong* and you've got it all *right*. I don't know. Did someone make such a claim? Evidently, there is much *more* that these abused people need from their abuser than an admission on a public forum that he was wrong (notwithstanding flaws in his character) and is *now* a different person. Sometimes what we think we need is really just what we *want*. And we don't always get what we want. (I believe there was a song about that awhile back.) If we go strictly by what these people are still feeling and seeing in what they call his *manipulative* current writings, Is what they're feeling and seeing really manipulative, or is that an accusation designed to extort something from him? it appears that he's offered nothing to them in that regard. What's really disgusting is that this is being hashed in public rather than making amends privately between the parties involved. If you read the book, you'll see that he *did* try to make amends in private, and they weren't accepted. Barry, and, of course, yourself. (Don't bother protesting your innocence; what on earth would make you think I'd take you seriously? Especially when you write vicious posts like this one.) snip Robin can do just fine on his own dealing with the vampire crew. But I like to get my own licks in. Call it a personal crusade against dishonesty. Your personal crusade against dishonesty is admirable, Judy, but there is so much dishonesty in the world that I'm sure you see and read about, how can you get any peace or sleep knowing that you can't respond to it all? You know the story about the little girl and the starfish, right? And why not pursue it where it really counts instead of on an insignificant public forum such as this one? How do you know I'm not? Is it the big-fish-in-a-small-pond syndrome? I think you and many others attribute more power to this forum than it deserves. No one's life is going to be ruined by anything that's written here, Oh, better tell Curtis that. and your insults to others take much away from any credibility to be found in what you write. It's like when the writer starts making insults, then s/he has reached the end of the line and we know we've got 'em. Well, you'd have to have rebutted everything *substantive* the writer had said before coming to that conclusion, would you not?
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@ wrote: How can everyone involved in Robin's cult 25+ years ago (LK, Howell and his wife, to name a few) Those three and Ann are the only ones we've heard from, so, you know, not exactly everyone, eh? There's also Rory, who apparently did get something valuable from the whole RC trip: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/280608 I found that by doing an advanced search on the website using 'author contains Rory' and 'message body contains Robin'
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
That's it? You're becoming weak-minded. You refused to address the rest of the post. Afraid ... again? However, I'm grateful to you. Once again displaying the attributes you're so well know to exhibit. Such an excellent reminder to folks here of your delusional, self-rewarding shallowness. Please show us your real hate-filled face. No need to pretend to hold back when we all know you as you really are. So many of us here are loving it. Thank you again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. Translation: I made two stupid errors in a post yesterday and she called me on them, made me feel all inferior. (BTW, I've just repeated one of them. That'll show her!)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: snip --Lord Knows, Howell and his disgusting wife, A little harsh there, don't ya think Judy? You got all that from the one comment she's made here in support of her husband's book? Oh, I see you haven't read her post. Maybe you should do that before you ask why I said she was disgusting. I did read it once, but I'll go back and re-read it. How can everyone involved in Robin's cult 25+ years ago (LK, Howell and his wife, to name a few) Those three and Ann are the only ones we've heard from, so, you know, not exactly everyone, eh? Another unintentional slip in my writing. I wasn't suggesting *everyone*. I guess I should have written *anyone*, huh? have it all *wrong* and you've got it all *right*. I don't know. Did someone make such a claim? Evidently, there is much *more* that these abused people need from their abuser than an admission on a public forum that he was wrong (notwithstanding flaws in his character) and is *now* a different person. Sometimes what we think we need is really just what we *want*. And we don't always get what we want. (I believe there was a song about that awhile back.) If we go strictly by what these people are still feeling and seeing in what they call his *manipulative* current writings, Is what they're feeling and seeing really manipulative, or is that an accusation designed to extort something from him? Not an all. I thought I had read that in LK's and Howell's analyses of how RWC writes here at FFL...that he is still being manipulative in his writing. it appears that he's offered nothing to them in that regard. What's really disgusting is that this is being hashed in public rather than making amends privately between the parties involved. If you read the book, you'll see that he *did* try to make amends in private, and they weren't accepted. My bad. I haven't read that far in the book as yet. Barry, and, of course, yourself. (Don't bother protesting your innocence; what on earth would make you think I'd take you seriously? Especially when you write vicious posts like this one.) snip Robin can do just fine on his own dealing with the vampire crew. But I like to get my own licks in. Call it a personal crusade against dishonesty. Your personal crusade against dishonesty is admirable, Judy, but there is so much dishonesty in the world that I'm sure you see and read about, how can you get any peace or sleep knowing that you can't respond to it all? You know the story about the little girl and the starfish, right? I think so...about picking up one of many starfish and throwing it back into the ocean as a beginning? Kind of like even the longest journey starts with the first step, eh? And why not pursue it where it really counts instead of on an insignificant public forum such as this one? How do you know I'm not? Where *do* you find the time??? Is it the big-fish-in-a-small-pond syndrome? I think you and many others attribute more power to this forum than it deserves. No one's life is going to be ruined by anything that's written here, Oh, better tell Curtis that. That's a lot different in that people can search for CDB's name in relation to his work with our young people, and it wouldn't be right to find misrepresentations of some statements he's made taken out of context. But I guess then you could make a case for some forum members calling RWC disturbed and having his employers find that through a search. and your insults to others take much away from any credibility to be found in what you write. It's like when the writer starts making insults, then s/he has reached the end of the line and we know we've got 'em. Well, you'd have to have rebutted everything *substantive* the writer had said before coming to that conclusion, would you not? I've over my head, but I think what I meant was how insults, or maybe I should have said name-calling, adds nothing to the argument, and is a turn-off for me and perhaps others as well. You don't see that in a true debate, do you?
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: That's it? You're becoming weak-minded. You refused to address the rest of the post. Afraid ... again? However, I'm grateful to you. Once again displaying the attributes you're so well know to exhibit. Such an excellent reminder to folks here of your delusional, self-rewarding shallowness. Please show us your real hate-filled face. No need to pretend to hold back when we all know you as you really are. So many of us here are loving it. Thank you again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. Translation: I made two stupid errors in a post yesterday and she called me on them, made me feel all inferior. (BTW, I've just repeated one of them. That'll show her!)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@ wrote: snip If we go strictly by what these people are still feeling and seeing in what they call his *manipulative* current writings, Is what they're feeling and seeing really manipulative, or is that an accusation designed to extort something from him? Not an all. I thought I had read that in LK's and Howell's analyses of how RWC writes here at FFL...that he is still being manipulative in his writing. Right...I meant are *they* (not you) trying to extort something from him by that manipulative accusation. I don't recall, BTW, seeing any of them citing *specific* instances of what they believed was attempted manipulation. That, to me, is a tell that there's nothing genuinely behind the accusation. snip Your personal crusade against dishonesty is admirable, Judy, but there is so much dishonesty in the world that I'm sure you see and read about, how can you get any peace or sleep knowing that you can't respond to it all? You know the story about the little girl and the starfish, right? I think so...about picking up one of many starfish and throwing it back into the ocean as a beginning? Kind of like even the longest journey starts with the first step, eh? 'Xactly. And why not pursue it where it really counts instead of on an insignificant public forum such as this one? How do you know I'm not? Where *do* you find the time??? I'm semi-retired. snip I think you and many others attribute more power to this forum than it deserves. No one's life is going to be ruined by anything that's written here, Oh, better tell Curtis that. That's a lot different in that people can search for CDB's name in relation to his work with our young people, and it wouldn't be right to find misrepresentations of some statements he's made taken out of context. But I guess then you could make a case for some forum members calling RWC disturbed and having his employers find that through a search. I think he's also retired, but who knows who else might be looking around for what purpose? and your insults to others take much away from any credibility to be found in what you write. It's like when the writer starts making insults, then s/he has reached the end of the line and we know we've got 'em. Well, you'd have to have rebutted everything *substantive* the writer had said before coming to that conclusion, would you not? I've over my head, grin but I think what I meant was how insults, or maybe I should have said name-calling, adds nothing to the argument, and is a turn-off for me and perhaps others as well. You don't see that in a true debate, do you? No, but this isn't a venue for true debates. It doesn't add anything to the argument per se, but I think a well- directed insult--a characterization that has already been validated by the substantive argument, IOW--can give a useful perspective on the target of the insult.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin Asshole. Why don't you write like a normal person? Then maybe ordinary folks could understand you, and I wouldn't have to spend my Sunday running around explaining what you said. Sometimes even *I* can't figure out what the freak you're talking about (for that matter, I'm not entirely sure you can either--one of the old cult-leader tactics: rattle off a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and your followers will assume your mind functions on such an exalted level that they can't grasp the elevated ideas you're expounding). BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: That's it? You're becoming weak-minded. You refused to address the rest of the post. Afraid ... again? However, I'm grateful to you. Once again displaying the attributes you're so well know to exhibit. Such an excellent reminder to folks here of your delusional, self-rewarding shallowness. Please show us your real hate-filled face. No need to pretend to hold back when we all know you as you really are. So many of us here are loving it. Thank you again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. Translation: I made two stupid errors in a post yesterday and she called me on them, made me feel all inferior. (BTW, I've just repeated one of them. That'll show her!)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin Asshole. Why don't you write like a normal person? Then maybe ordinary folks could understand you, and I wouldn't have to spend my Sunday running around explaining what you said. Sometimes even *I* can't figure out what the freak you're talking about (for that matter, I'm not entirely sure you can either--one of the old cult-leader tactics: rattle off a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and your followers will assume your mind functions on such an exalted level that they can't grasp the elevated ideas you're expounding). BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. I am going to unsubscribe after this. The evil being thing is coming back to me. That means something--don't you think? I apologize to you for what I said to emptybill--I am going to claim I was being ironic--and there is just no way you can prove differently. That one word with which you begin your post: That was the euphemistic title that Bill rejected. I still believe after this exchange we can be friends, Judy. I had a weak moment--OK? After you taunting me like this, I realize I should not have written that post. Let's work this out, authfriend. If that raunchydog makes fun of this post, I shall be beside myself. Don't do it, raunchy. Bill's book didn't stop me; but this post has. But this is part of the beauty and terror and meaning of life. I am sure of this. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: That's it? You're becoming weak-minded. You refused to address the rest of the post. Afraid ... again? However, I'm grateful to you. Once again displaying the attributes you're so well know to exhibit. Such an excellent reminder to folks here of your delusional, self-rewarding shallowness. Please show us your real hate-filled face. No need to pretend to hold back when we all know you as you really are. So many of us here are loving it. Thank you again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. Translation: I made two stupid errors in a post yesterday and she called me on them, made me feel all inferior. (BTW, I've just repeated one of them. That'll show her!)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin Asshole. Why don't you write like a normal person? Then maybe ordinary folks could understand you, and I wouldn't have to spend my Sunday running around explaining what you said. Sometimes even *I* can't figure out what the freak you're talking about (for that matter, I'm not entirely sure you can either--one of the old cult-leader tactics: rattle off a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and your followers will assume your mind functions on such an exalted level that they can't grasp the elevated ideas you're expounding). BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. I am going to unsubscribe after this. The evil being thing is coming back to me. That means something--don't you think? I apologize to you for what I said to emptybill--I am going to claim I was being ironic--and there is just no way you can prove differently. That one word with which you begin your post: That was the euphemistic title that Bill rejected. I still believe after this exchange we can be friends, Judy. I had a weak moment--OK? After you taunting me like this, I realize I should not have written that post. Let's work this out, authfriend. If that raunchydog makes fun of this post, I shall be beside myself. Don't do it, raunchy. Bill's book didn't stop me; but this post has. But this is part of the beauty and terror and meaning of life. I am sure of this. Bon voyage, Asshole. http://www.cityofart.net/bship/tsu_melodrama_det.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: That's it? You're becoming weak-minded. You refused to address the rest of the post. Afraid ... again? However, I'm grateful to you. Once again displaying the attributes you're so well know to exhibit. Such an excellent reminder to folks here of your delusional, self-rewarding shallowness. Please show us your real hate-filled face. No need to pretend to hold back when we all know you as you really are. So many of us here are loving it. Thank you again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. Translation: I made two stupid errors in a post yesterday and she called me on them, made me feel all inferior. (BTW, I've just repeated one of them. That'll show her!)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
Another perfect post from Raunchy. How *does* she do it? It couldn't be all those years in TM, could it? Raunchy, I want what you have. Love, Em. From: raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 4:55 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin Asshole. Why don't you write like a normal person? Then maybe ordinary folks could understand you, and I wouldn't have to spend my Sunday running around explaining what you said. Sometimes even *I* can't figure out what the freak you're talking about (for that matter, I'm not entirely sure you can either--one of the old cult-leader tactics: rattle off a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and your followers will assume your mind functions on such an exalted level that they can't grasp the elevated ideas you're expounding). BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. I am going to unsubscribe after this. The evil being thing is coming back to me. That means something--don't you think? I apologize to you for what I said to emptybill--I am going to claim I was being ironic--and there is just no way you can prove differently. That one word with which you begin your post: That was the euphemistic title that Bill rejected. I still believe after this exchange we can be friends, Judy. I had a weak moment--OK? After you taunting me like this, I realize I should not have written that post. Let's work this out, authfriend. If that raunchydog makes fun of this post, I shall be beside myself. Don't do it, raunchy. Bill's book didn't stop me; but this post has. But this is part of the beauty and terror and meaning of life. I am sure of this. Bon voyage, Asshole. http://www.cityofart.net/bship/tsu_melodrama_det.jpg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: That's it? You're becoming weak-minded. You refused to address the rest of the post. Afraid ... again? However, I'm grateful to you. Once again displaying the attributes you're so well know to exhibit. Such an excellent reminder to folks here of your delusional, self-rewarding shallowness. Please show us your real hate-filled face. No need to pretend to hold back when we all know you as you really are. So many of us here are loving it. Thank you again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. Translation: I made two stupid errors in a post yesterday and she called me on them, made me feel all inferior. (BTW, I've just repeated one of them. That'll show her!)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin Asshole. Why don't you write like a normal person? Then maybe ordinary folks could understand you, and I wouldn't have to spend my Sunday running around explaining what you said. Sometimes even *I* can't figure out what the freak you're talking about (for that matter, I'm not entirely sure you can either--one of the old cult-leader tactics: rattle off a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and your followers will assume your mind functions on such an exalted level that they can't grasp the elevated ideas you're expounding). BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. I am going to unsubscribe after this. Oh no! The evil being thing is coming back to me. That means something--don't you think? Just shoo it away, for pete's sake. What's the big problem? I apologize to you for what I said to emptybill--I am going to claim I was being ironic--and there is just no way you can prove differently. Sheesh, I thought you *were* being ironic! All right, obviously I'm going to have to help you out here. That one word with which you begin your post: That was the euphemistic title that Bill rejected. I still believe after this exchange we can be friends, Judy. I had a weak moment--OK? After you taunting me like this, I realize I should not have written that post. You shouldn't have spilled the beans. I mean, that's sort of the ultimate irony, that I, who am so good at detecting your irony, thought you were being ironic when you were dead serious. You really screwed up this time. Let's work this out, authfriend. If that raunchydog makes fun of this post, I shall be beside myself. Don't do it, raunchy. I wouldn't blame her if she did. You've made yourself an irresistible target. Bill's book didn't stop me; but this post has. I think you've become unhinged by the strain, frankly. But this is part of the beauty and terror and meaning of life. I am sure of this. Yah, right. Most of us don't have nearly so much trouble just getting from day to day. You need a keeper. I can't spend *all* my time cleaning up after you. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: That's it? You're becoming weak-minded. You refused to address the rest of the post. Afraid ... again? However, I'm grateful to you. Once again displaying the attributes you're so well know to exhibit. Such an excellent reminder to folks here of your delusional, self-rewarding shallowness. Please show us your real hate-filled face. No need to pretend to hold back when we all know you as you really are. So many of us here are loving it. Thank you again. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Share, Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. Translation: I made two stupid errors in a post yesterday and she called me on them, made me feel all inferior. (BTW, I've just repeated one of them. That'll show her!)
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin Asshole. Why don't you write like a normal person? Then maybe ordinary folks could understand you, and I wouldn't have to spend my Sunday running around explaining what you said. Sometimes even *I* can't figure out what the freak you're talking about (for that matter, I'm not entirely sure you can either--one of the old cult-leader tactics: rattle off a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and your followers will assume your mind functions on such an exalted level that they can't grasp the elevated ideas you're expounding). BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. MZ: I am going to unsubscribe after this. AF: Oh no! MZ2: I overreacted, authfriend. And I think there are persons on FFL who want me to stay. No, I think definitely I will unsubscribe. No one likes me outside of my followers. MZ: The evil being thing is coming back to me. That means something--don't you think? AF: Just shoo it away, for pete's sake. What's the big problem? MZ2: Shoo! Shoo! Shoo! [Interesting, but laugh as you will, it seems to have been a projection. You're not really an evil being, authfriend; but still, you can be one of those women who have never been put in their place. Not that I would try to do this. But something for you to think about, AF.] Shoo, Shrew!--this works too. MZ: I apologize to you for what I said to emptybill--I am going to claim I was being ironic--and there is just no way you can prove differently. AF: Sheesh, I thought you *were* being ironic! All right, obviously I'm going to have to help you out here. MZ2: When I wrote it I was not being ironic. But when I looked at it again--after your obnoxious response (mocking me: I don't like it one bit--and guess what! I *knew* you were being ironic)--I realized: Hey, MZ: you can just get away with telling AF you were being ironic. And who knows? I COULD BE BEING IRONIC NOW, and you wouldn't know the difference. ;-) Hah hah: I win this one, authfriend. MZ: That one word with which you begin your post: That was the euphemistic title that Bill rejected. I still believe after this exchange we can be friends, Judy. I had a weak moment--OK? After you taunting me like this, I realize I should not have written that post. AF: You shouldn't have spilled the beans. I mean, that's sort of the ultimate irony, that I, who am so good at detecting your irony, thought you were being ironic when you were dead serious. You really screwed up this time. MZ2: As a matter of fact I was begin serious, authfriend, moved as I was by the pure Christian passion and conviction of emptybill. But you got fooled, because if I really follow your initial response, it appears you took me to be ironic! So, then, what was I to do? How was I to convince you this one time I was being sincere? Wolf Wolf Wolf I guess. But no screw-up here, authfriend: emptybill told the truth, I knew it--you obviously can't see yourself as others see you. That is something we all need to work on: see ourselves from the point of view of the other person. MZ: Let's work this out, authfriend. If that raunchydog makes fun of this post, I shall be beside myself. Don't do it, raunchy. AF: I wouldn't blame her if she did. You've made yourself an irresistible target. MZ2: And wouldn't you know it: she just went ahead and was insulting to me anyway. I guess, without realizing it, I asked for it. Although I don't mind: she is, isn't she, part of some cult? According to Dr, Long she is, and I certainly believe Dr. Long. Now where was I? I will fight my way through all this, authfriend--I was just asking how my negative qualities were doing (SL): and they said: Fine, Robin. We're doing just fine. STFU--because we can get you anytime we like. I thought raunchy's comments (and link) uncalled-for, authfriend. Surely you agree: this was in bad taste. MZ: Bill's book didn't stop me; but this post has. AF: I think you've become unhinged by the strain, frankly. MZ2: You really are a harridan of the first order, authfriend. I think everyone on FFL can agree on this. It has been a strain; I admit it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: snip BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. snip MZ2: I am through with the putdowns, AF. I can make my heart clean of spite if you can. How about it? Let's be friends--like we were before I felt emptybill's revelation. I think you are just playing with me anyhow, and I have had enough of this. I won't answer your next post, authfriend. This is it for me. sobbing You're trying to confuse me. After all I've done for you. It's a shame. Don't forget about the whistle.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
Ah ha ha ha ha ha. Nice of you, Robin, to thank Judy for all the hard work she did for you today. That woman is a trooper. Dale Carnegie - good one. Do you think Judy would benefit more from How to Win Friends and Influence People or How to Stop Worrying and Start Living? From: Robin Carlsen maskedze...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 6:39 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robin Carlsen maskedzebra@ wrote: I believe, emptybill, you are the first poster to get a hold of the entire person Judy Stein. There might be some slight nitpicks I have here, but essentially--without prejudice--I believe you have captured this woman. Even though she has written in my defense, I still prefer the truth over anything else, and I feel because of your post somehow liberated from any false affection for someone who has taken up my cause. Thank you for this. Robin Asshole. Why don't you write like a normal person? Then maybe ordinary folks could understand you, and I wouldn't have to spend my Sunday running around explaining what you said. Sometimes even *I* can't figure out what the freak you're talking about (for that matter, I'm not entirely sure you can either--one of the old cult-leader tactics: rattle off a bunch of meaningless mumbo-jumbo, and your followers will assume your mind functions on such an exalted level that they can't grasp the elevated ideas you're expounding). BTW, if you need any more help liberating yourself from your false affections, just whistle. MZ: I am going to unsubscribe after this. AF: Oh no! MZ2: I overreacted, authfriend. And I think there are persons on FFL who want me to stay. No, I think definitely I will unsubscribe. No one likes me outside of my followers. MZ: The evil being thing is coming back to me. That means something--don't you think? AF: Just shoo it away, for pete's sake. What's the big problem? MZ2: Shoo! Shoo! Shoo! [Interesting, but laugh as you will, it seems to have been a projection. You're not really an evil being, authfriend; but still, you can be one of those women who have never been put in their place. Not that I would try to do this. But something for you to think about, AF.] Shoo, Shrew!--this works too. MZ: I apologize to you for what I said to emptybill--I am going to claim I was being ironic--and there is just no way you can prove differently. AF: Sheesh, I thought you *were* being ironic! All right, obviously I'm going to have to help you out here. MZ2: When I wrote it I was not being ironic. But when I looked at it again--after your obnoxious response (mocking me: I don't like it one bit--and guess what! I *knew* you were being ironic)--I realized: Hey, MZ: you can just get away with telling AF you were being ironic. And who knows? I COULD BE BEING IRONIC NOW, and you wouldn't know the difference. ;-) Hah hah: I win this one, authfriend. MZ: That one word with which you begin your post: That was the euphemistic title that Bill rejected. I still believe after this exchange we can be friends, Judy. I had a weak moment--OK? After you taunting me like this, I realize I should not have written that post. AF: You shouldn't have spilled the beans. I mean, that's sort of the ultimate irony, that I, who am so good at detecting your irony, thought you were being ironic when you were dead serious. You really screwed up this time. MZ2: As a matter of fact I was begin serious, authfriend, moved as I was by the pure Christian passion and conviction of emptybill. But you got fooled, because if I really follow your initial response, it appears you took me to be ironic! So, then, what was I to do? How was I to convince you this one time I was being sincere? Wolf Wolf Wolf I guess. But no screw-up here, authfriend: emptybill told the truth, I knew it--you obviously can't see yourself as others see you. That is something we all need to work on: see ourselves from the point of view of the other person. MZ: Let's work this out, authfriend. If that raunchydog makes fun of this post, I shall be beside myself. Don't do it, raunchy. AF: I wouldn't blame her if she did. You've made yourself an irresistible target. MZ2: And wouldn't you know it: she just went ahead and was insulting to me anyway. I guess, without realizing it, I asked for it. Although I don't mind: she is, isn't she, part of some cult? According to Dr, Long she is, and I certainly believe Dr. Long. Now where was I? I will fight my way through all this, authfriend--I was just asking how my negative
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
From Rory's autobiography on his website: Sometime in October, Nancy M. introduced me to Robin Carlson, who was enjoying a rather large cult-following in Fairfield at that time. A TM-teacher who had experienced some enlightenment, he had now gone rogue and was creating his own movement, publishing several extremely complex books, offering courses, and passing out his picture for contemplation by his devoted followers. The TM Movement was infuriated, sending their security people to spy on his meetings and take names of attendees. Soon they were excommunicating all his followers, expelling students from the University and asking TM employers to fire any Carlsonite employees. While Robin's guru-aspects turned me off, I was nonetheless impressed with his gifts. Robin was a skilled manifester, practicing much the same techniques of name-and-form that we practiced in our circle. The difference was that Robin showed no great desire to share the knack with his followers, but exhibited it as another example of his own superiority. Robin, by the Grace of God, would you manifest... a follower would reverently intone, and with grace, Robin would condescend to fulfill their desire. More than this, though, Robin had an interesting --- and disturbing --- world-view. An ex-drama-teacher, he saw the world as a divine drama: a perennial conflict between the divine and the demonic in each of us. Robin also had an enviable certainty that he was always right; he trusted his perceptions completely, and did not hesitate to label one as in the grip of the demonic. This came as a shock to those of us used to Maharishi's continual focus on the good, and omission of anything negative; to me it seemed to fall short of Unity Consciousness, wherein one takes full responsibility for one's own perceptions as being aspects of Oneself, but it served to stir many of us out of our complacency. While I didn't care for his world-view, I had to admit that he did, indeed, have a razor-sharp intellect, beautiful intuition, deep compassion, and unhesitating honesty. When I rose to speak with him at one of his circles, I was aghast at the strong dissociation I began experiencing --- as if I weren't participating at all, just watching this dance between his mind and mine; or as if we were both watching my mind while the conversation flowed on automatically. Within the space of a few moments, we went deeper and deeper into my mind, until in the spotlight of our combined consciousness, I saw a small, squirming, wriggling, power-hungry entity trying to escape the light. It --- I --- was shocked and stunned, frozen in Robin's gaze like a deer in headlights; I literally couldn't speak for my --- its --- fear that was lodged in my throat. You see! Robin shouted triumphantly. The demonic is stupid! I was crushed, humiliated, surrounded in a cloud of grey-blue light. I went home, sat on the bed, and vomited up old emotions, from deep in my belly, sobbing for two hours, until my whole pillow was sodden. I could feel angelic hands patting my field all over, anointing me with creamy white light. The next day I returned to Robin's and thanked him for what he had done; my whole psychic field felt looser and richer. I had begun to let go of identifying with my power-center. From: Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:43 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, laughinggull108 no_reply@ wrote: How can everyone involved in Robin's cult 25+ years ago (LK, Howell and his wife, to name a few) Those three and Ann are the only ones we've heard from, so, you know, not exactly everyone, eh? There's also Rory, who apparently did get something valuable from the whole RC trip: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/280608 I found that by doing an advanced search on the website using 'author contains Rory' and 'message body contains Robin'
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Emptybaby - stop irritating me. If Devi I are to continue to tolerate your behavior here you need to get a few ground rules right viz my relationship to Devi and proper use of prepositions, references to medications, DSM labels is a strict no-no - Devi doesn't like that shit. So please correct and re-submit your responses. On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 1:27 PM, emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com wrote: ** Ravioi Are you hiding behind Her skirts again? Take yer meds and calm down. Just show Her yer green card and then promise Her you'd rather be Her fool than parade around a vicious ahamkara like Judas. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@... wrote: Oh emptybaby - the suffering Devi I have undergone tolerating your senile induced slanderous, rebellious behavior. On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 12:49 PM, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: ** Ravioli, Yer so right. He's deceptively usurious while you are merely bi-polar. You just need to return to yer meds while he needs metanoesis. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula chivukula.ravi@ wrote: I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon. Oh Ms. Kaladevi what did I do? Why are you comparing me with that old guy, the former cult leader? I'm just a naive, innocent, gullible guy, a baby Krishna, that needs to be loved, showered with attention - taken for rides in a stroller - won't you - please? On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 6:52 AM, kaladevi108 no_reply@...: ** One thing you may want to consider is that it only makes sense that if people see demons, they themselves are possessed by demons (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically. psychologically, etc). Rather than seeing Robin's incident in Switzerland as awakening, it should be seen as a case of demonic possession (or however you want to see that ontologically, neurologically or psychologically), which then took on a more sinister turn as he enacted that drama onto innocents. And the claim that he's changed is utter BS. It's the same old show, played out in email posts, to a gullible TM-oriented audience, desperate for any pulse of awakening. I actually see Ravi and Robin as a similar phenomenon.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@... wrote: Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. It is a testament to her ego fixation and her need to prove her domination. And look at who she needs to pretend to be defending to do that. Birds of an ego-feather flock together. :-) What I find fascinating is that the more insane Robin and Ravi demonstrate themselves to be, the more she doubles down on defending them. It's like watching a reality TV show called Cults Gone Wild.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: Judas Stone is only here to parade her habitual feeling of superiority. It is a testament to her ego fixation and her need to prove her domination. And look at who she needs to pretend to be defending to do that. Birds of an ego-feather flock together. :-) What I find fascinating is that the more insane Robin and Ravi demonstrate themselves to be, the more she doubles down on defending them. It's like watching a reality TV show called Cults Gone Wild. I think that the aspects of cult behavior that most concerns me -- having by now gotten used to the sheer vindictiveness of TM practitioners who claim to have been practicing the highest path for decades now -- are their inability to be able to discern when they're dealing with real mental illness, and their willingness to use these mentally ill people to further their own vindictive cult goals. I attribute the first failing to having been around the TMO for so long, and thus having gotten used to the borderline insanity present in many of its adherents (excused as mere quirkiness or eccentricity or just unstressing), that they feel a need to portray much more serious mental illness in the same way. My suspicion is that they do this because they feel that if they can convince others that people like Robin and Ravi as sane, those others will believe that they are, too. The second failing is more disturbing. I will go on record as saying that I don't believe I've ever seen Judy exhibit any more true empathy or loyalty for one of the people she defends than either Ravi or Robin have. The people she defends are mere props for her, potential weapons that she can use to justify her vindictiveness and compulsive need to get her enemies. And they last only as long as they toe the line and do her bidding. Should any of them cross her, she'll throw them under the bus as quickly as she did John from Brazil or anyone else who once thought her impressive and then later came to their senses and began to see her as more what she is. If I were to rank the different degrees of insanity present in this equation, I have to admit that I'd be willing to cut both Ravi and Robin a break compared to Judy, Raunchydog, and Ann. The former two are IMO legitimately mentally ill, and really have no choice in what they do. The latter do what they do to play oneupsmanship games and win arguments on a tiny, unregarded Internet forum that no one cares about. It's the very pettiness of their motivation that makes them most pathetic.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT to Judy and TurqB
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, emptybill emptybill@ wrote: What I find fascinating is that the more insane Robin and Ravi demonstrate themselves to be, the more she doubles down on defending them. It's like watching a reality TV show called Cults Gone Wild. I attribute the first failing to having been around the TMO for so long, and thus having gotten used to the borderline insanity present in many of its adherents (excused as mere quirkiness or eccentricity or just unstressing), that they feel a need to portray much more serious mental illness in the same way. My suspicion is that they do this because they feel that if they can convince others that people like Robin and Ravi as sane, those others will believe that they are, too. If I were to rank the different degrees of insanity present in this equation, I have to admit that I'd be willing to cut both Ravi and Robin a break compared to Judy, Raunchydog, and Ann. The former two are IMO legitimately mentally ill, and really have no choice in what they do. The latter do what they do to play oneupsmanship games and win arguments on a tiny, unregarded Internet forum that no one cares about. It's the very pettiness of their motivation that makes them most pathetic. Dude, your relationships with some folks here has been discussed and commented upon endlessly and by lots of people. The whole drama, with your participation, seems to be a significant engine of this forum. For some unknown and ungodly reason, it is. I don't get it. I don't enjoy it, but it continues unabated, irregardless. I just let it lie, for the most part.
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@... wrote: Dear Brahmi, You are wrong about the person I am now, Brahmi. You could not be more wrong. I am not the same person I was when I called almost everyone evil--including in a most searing way, yourself. A quarter of a century does change persons. No matter what you say, for Ann Woelfe Bater to post as she has posted on FFL must mean, for you to be right, that her heart has gone dead, her conscience falsified, her mind utterly distorted. Do you believe this about Ann, Brahmi? In your excoriating letter here you make it very clear that anyone who would harbour friendly feelings towards me, or believing me to be a good and loving person, clearly is out of their mind. Is Ann Woelfe Bater out of her mind, Brahmi? Is she incapable of remembering her own suffering--which, when wrote to tell me her sister Christine had drowned in a car (September 1986) was, I am sure, equal to your own? If you are stating the absolute truth about Robin Carlsen, which surely in your soul you believe you are, then it must mean, it has to mean, that Ann Woelfle Bater is a traitor to the cause, a traitor to the truth, and a traitor to you, whom she considers a dear friend of hers. Are you going to speak to her about this anomaly, Brahmi? Were Ann in the same frame of mind and heart as she was when she denounced me many years ago--she is not one to take things like what I did to her, lightly--this would not change my judgment of myself. However, I believe that what comes across in Ann's posts on FFL (about myself) holds evidence of a truth which your letter is determined to annihilate (to use one of your words). Ann's response to me--I think this is obvious to others too--contains something that is very real--it seems so to me, Brahmi. She is your friend. You must get her to disavow her friendship with me. And it is a friendship which goes down very deep, despite the restrictions which have been imposed upon it. What I share with Ann, Brahmi, would give the lie to the imperishable judgment that I am in some sense evil--still. What would be her response to this letter if she read it in your presence? You are certain in some extreme way that all that you have said here is true. If what you say is as intrinsically true as you feel and know it to be, then Ann Woelfe Bater is under a serious and tragic illusion. You must confront her about this. Will you? Ann's understanding of me and experience of me takes nothing away from the terror and atrocity of what she (and you) passed through in those three years. You and others are driven by a view of me which, I assure you, Brahmi, is without merit. What you communicate her is sincerity and outrage: what I know about myself makes me certain you do not know me as I am now. And Ann Woelfe Bater is testimony to this. Testimony which you cannot refute except you understand that her response to me is simply incompatible with the truth. She should know this. I am sorry for the evil that was done to you Brahmi. But I have suffered (even though you have determined this is belied by my posts on FFL) for my sins, and I am forgiven by what forced me to endure the disillusionment and humiliation and despair that such a life as I led in those Ten Years (when supposedly in Unity Consciousness) warranted that I undergo. You don't know me, Brahmi. And someday you will know this truth as well as the truth you have a hold of here, based upon my extreme and indefensible behaviour during those Ten Years. Robin I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me. I don't deal in guilt, but I do call a spade a spade. CULT deals with suffering, a universal theme, and the cruelty and betrayal that characterize all cults. The book is mainly meant to educate about what cults are through the details of The Context. What kind of intelligent criticism
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Dear Robin: If you can objectify outside of yourself, do read past Page 45. I realize how difficult this might be. From: Robin Carlsen maskedze...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:33 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@... wrote: Dear Brahmi, You are wrong about the person I am now, Brahmi. You could not be more wrong. I am not the same person I was when I called almost everyone evil--including in a most searing way, yourself. A quarter of a century does change persons. No matter what you say, for Ann Woelfe Bater to post as she has posted on FFL must mean, for you to be right, that her heart has gone dead, her conscience falsified, her mind utterly distorted. Do you believe this about Ann, Brahmi? In your excoriating letter here you make it very clear that anyone who would harbour friendly feelings towards me, or believing me to be a good and loving person, clearly is out of their mind. Is Ann Woelfe Bater out of her mind, Brahmi? Is she incapable of remembering her own suffering--which, when wrote to tell me her sister Christine had drowned in a car (September 1986) was, I am sure, equal to your own? If you are stating the absolute truth about Robin Carlsen, which surely in your soul you believe you are, then it must mean, it has to mean, that Ann Woelfle Bater is a traitor to the cause, a traitor to the truth, and a traitor to you, whom she considers a dear friend of hers. Are you going to speak to her about this anomaly, Brahmi? Were Ann in the same frame of mind and heart as she was when she denounced me many years ago--she is not one to take things like what I did to her, lightly--this would not change my judgment of myself. However, I believe that what comes across in Ann's posts on FFL (about myself) holds evidence of a truth which your letter is determined to annihilate (to use one of your words). Ann's response to me--I think this is obvious to others too--contains something that is very real--it seems so to me, Brahmi. She is your friend. You must get her to disavow her friendship with me. And it is a friendship which goes down very deep, despite the restrictions which have been imposed upon it. What I share with Ann, Brahmi, would give the lie to the imperishable judgment that I am in some sense evil--still. What would be her response to this letter if she read it in your presence? You are certain in some extreme way that all that you have said here is true. If what you say is as intrinsically true as you feel and know it to be, then Ann Woelfe Bater is under a serious and tragic illusion. You must confront her about this. Will you? Ann's understanding of me and experience of me takes nothing away from the terror and atrocity of what she (and you) passed through in those three years. You and others are driven by a view of me which, I assure you, Brahmi, is without merit. What you communicate her is sincerity and outrage: what I know about myself makes me certain you do not know me as I am now. And Ann Woelfe Bater is testimony to this. Testimony which you cannot refute except you understand that her response to me is simply incompatible with the truth. She should know this. I am sorry for the evil that was done to you Brahmi. But I have suffered (even though you have determined this is belied by my posts on FFL) for my sins, and I am forgiven by what forced me to endure the disillusionment and humiliation and despair that such a life as I led in those Ten Years (when supposedly in Unity Consciousness) warranted that I undergo. You don't know me, Brahmi. And someday you will know this truth as well as the truth you have a hold of here, based upon my extreme and indefensible behaviour during those Ten Years. Robin I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me
[FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@... wrote: I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me. I don't deal in guilt, but I do call a spade a spade. CULT deals with suffering, a universal theme, and the cruelty and betrayal that characterize all cults. The book is mainly meant to educate about what cults are through the details of The Context. What kind of intelligent criticism suggests let alone asserts that what is written about past events is useless? Such an argument infers that history and biography are ridiculous acts of literature. Indeed, such an argument threatens the entire field of literature. It feels obvious that someone who admittedly has committed such acts of terror, treachery and betrayal as Robin Carlsen would at all costs avoid the public forum, and be especially wary of trying to say he knows more about others than they know about themselves. Wouldn't a reformed criminal realize the temptation to again commit crimes, just as sobered alcoholics know hat their disease is a lifelong issue? And yet here on FFL we see many examples of Robin confronting this person and that, of pontificating. It seems that he is addicted to an ongoing sense of power and knowingness. Which makes Mr. Carlsen's recent diatribe all the more questionable and even pathetic in its attempt to convince people about any sincerity or true change, which he achieves in part by putting other persons, however sincere, down, trying to thoroughly negate them in his all-over-the-map rhetoric. If in fact he has not been on his belly, in the mud, he has not achieved the so-called change that he profusely propounds. Nor has he gained the compassion that such suffering necessarily brings to those who are on the path of healing. While he has `confessed' to doing terrible things, I cannot find one real line of humility that he has written on this site. I carefully read and slowly reread every word that Robin recently posted. Having been a close witness to his style, his every word leaves no doubt in my mind that he is still deluded. Yes, he sure is instantly recognisable! I've only just started reading it as it ended up in my junk folder (possibly not for karmic reasons) but I'm finding it fascinating, can't offer any opinions yet other than that Robin was clearly a deluded megalomaniac and that the American Psychiatric Association would have had him strung up for his therapeutic technique, which I actually found quite interesting in a My god did people really get off on this for years? kind of way. But not something I'd recommend to anyone. This will be my one and only post about this matter. Probably a good idea unless you want to spend the rest of your life arguing with Robin's self appointed defenders, what they get out of it is anyone's guess, it's not like they were there.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: CULT
Aah..the wisdom of the chinless, drooling, salivating puppy :-). A good sign you can hang on yourself - I haven't been petted lately On Sat, Nov 10, 2012 at 1:44 PM, salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.comwrote: ** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, baladevim baladevim@... wrote: I am Brahmi, the wife of William Howell, author of the book CULT. I write about Robin Carlsen's response to CULT. I was there, one of the folks annihilated by Robin. My son was present when Robin announced that I was the incarnation of the Devil. Can you imagine what went through my son to hear such an indictment of a mother whom he loved? I stand by this book. The book is actually mild, compared to the thousand more stories, confrontations and inner hells that could have been offered. That's why it takes 3-5 years to get out of a cult, if one gets out at all. What of ancient history could there be about this book? It feels even more relevant today than when it was first written. Cults are devastating and they are destructive. Redemption will be in finding the antithesis to that, For William and I, it was being fortunate enough to find great souls who represent the antithesis to RC, so that grace entered and healing began. For myself, I walked into Robin's realm with eyes wide open and do not blame anyone for what happened to me. I don't deal in guilt, but I do call a spade a spade. CULT deals with suffering, a universal theme, and the cruelty and betrayal that characterize all cults. The book is mainly meant to educate about what cults are through the details of The Context. What kind of intelligent criticism suggests let alone asserts that what is written about past events is useless? Such an argument infers that history and biography are ridiculous acts of literature. Indeed, such an argument threatens the entire field of literature. It feels obvious that someone who admittedly has committed such acts of terror, treachery and betrayal as Robin Carlsen would at all costs avoid the public forum, and be especially wary of trying to say he knows more about others than they know about themselves. Wouldn't a reformed criminal realize the temptation to again commit crimes, just as sobered alcoholics know hat their disease is a lifelong issue? And yet here on FFL we see many examples of Robin confronting this person and that, of pontificating. It seems that he is addicted to an ongoing sense of power and knowingness. Which makes Mr. Carlsen's recent diatribe all the more questionable and even pathetic in its attempt to convince people about any sincerity or true change, which he achieves in part by putting other persons, however sincere, down, trying to thoroughly negate them in his all-over-the-map rhetoric. If in fact he has not been on his belly, in the mud, he has not achieved the so-called change that he profusely propounds. Nor has he gained the compassion that such suffering necessarily brings to those who are on the path of healing. While he has `confessed' to doing terrible things, I cannot find one real line of humility that he has written on this site. I carefully read and slowly reread every word that Robin recently posted. Having been a close witness to his style, his every word leaves no doubt in my mind that he is still deluded. Yes, he sure is instantly recognisable! I've only just started reading it as it ended up in my junk folder (possibly not for karmic reasons) but I'm finding it fascinating, can't offer any opinions yet other than that Robin was clearly a deluded megalomaniac and that the American Psychiatric Association would have had him strung up for his therapeutic technique, which I actually found quite interesting in a My god did people really get off on this for years? kind of way. But not something I'd recommend to anyone. This will be my one and only post about this matter. Probably a good idea unless you want to spend the rest of your life arguing with Robin's self appointed defenders, what they get out of it is anyone's guess, it's not like they were there.
